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Hibernating to Mars
neutron_p writes "Manned missions beyond the Moon are no longer wild dreams. NASA plans a manned mission to Mars before 2020. With automatic systems in control, astronauts would face the challenge of living in a confined space with not much to do for an extremely long period. 'Might as well sleep it off!' Studies initiated by ESA have gone one step further. Wouldn't it be nice if astronauts could hibernate! ESA biologists are conducting investigations into the physiological mechanisms that mammals use to hibernate."
Haven't they been doing that in movies for years now?
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
ESA To Study Human Hibernation
Posted by timothy on 10:20 AM -- Wednesday August 04 2004
from the that-report-will-be-a-snooze dept.
colonist writes "The European Space Agency (ESA) plans to study human hibernation for long-duration space voyages (a la 'Alien', '2001'). Although 'practical hibernation mechanisms are at least a decade away', ESA researchers will make initial inquiries into DADLE (D-Ala,D-Leu-enkephalin), an opium-like drug that triggers hibernation in ground squirrels and human cells. Other subjects of interest include dobutamine, a drug that maintains muscle, and the Madagascan fat-tailed dwarf lemur, the only primate known to hibernate."
works for most of USA
Just gather up a bunch of geeks and toss them in the capsule. Once they get away from Earth, send a message letting them know that you accidentially packed decaf. Once the panic wears off, they'll sleep the rest of the trip.
This strikes me as having two BIG problems right from the start:
This would be great, if it works, but I bet we end up doing it the hard way...
"I'm a scientist! I don't think, I observe!" - Dr. Clayton Forrester
Crazy scientist is creating psychotic robot that has the ability to wake or kill hibernating humans.
Make them earn their passage by doing some programming along the way. Set up the food dispensers so that if you don't work, you don't eat. That will keep them occupied!
It would suck to be stuck in a spaceship for three years, sure. But it would also suck to fall asleep and wake up three years later -- and three years older, with absolutely nothing to show for it. Sure, external sources of damage would be nearly eliminated, so you wouldn't be three years shorter of telomeres. Also, being in one place for the duration means hard radiation shielding is much more practical than trying to hard shield the entire ship.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Expect NASA to announce, in the next few months, that physical requirements for astronauts have now changed. All prospective recruits must now have at least 400 lbs. of body fat.
Stories like this illustrate why people who say things like "why are we spending all this money on space when we have so many problems to solve here on Earth" need to rethink their arguments. Not only would true hibernation open up voyages to destinations much farther away than Mars, but being able to put humans into hibernation would have enormous medical implications -- imagine hibernating through surgery, or in the case of something incurable, being put into hibernation (thus, persumably, greatly slowing the process of the disease) until a cure is found. Also, the advances necessary to acheive this would lead to a much better understanding of human biology generally, with attendant medical advances we can't necessarily imagine at this point.
The usual counterargument to this is, "But if we spent the money studying ___ for its own sake, we would make the same discoveries, without the overhead of space flight!" This misses the point, IMO; we could do the research, but without an obvious need such as space flight creates, we generally wouldn't. Space exploration has provided the justification for some of the most important research the world has ever seen -- the reason "space-age technology" has fallen out of favor as an advertising slogan is because the stuff is now so woven into the fabric of our daily lives that we no longer think about its origins -- and clearly continues to do so.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Slashdot archives That should keep them busy for awhile
I'd have to recommend near light speed instead. First of all, the trip will be faster. And as an added bonus, time will pass faster.
The trip will feel as if it was from now... to... now. Or even faster, from now to now. Or maybe even from nowtonow if they are really close to light speed.
The one advantage with the hibernation thing is that they might feel really rested when they get there.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
...not to hit the snooze button when you get there.
Find free books.
One of the problems in space is your body begins to weaken since there is no gravity. That, with the fact that a year of not moving even on earth would make you too weak.. One wonders.
-Eric
Just look at 2001: A Space Odyssey; if you hibernate to a distant place with a super AI computer watching over your critical life support functions and the spaceship, you'll die a nasty, red-LED blinking death. Just don't codename the computer HAL 9000...
CNN-reporter: I'm standing here with Mr. Carter, first human on Mars. So, tell me, Mr. Carter, how was it like?
... if only I could return. Maybe tonight.
Mr. Carter: *Gasp* I don't know. O.K. I guess, but I had this wonderful dream about a great pink mushroom and a sea of chockolate. Ahh
Look a monkey!
What could possibly go wrong with that?
... do I have to live on salmon and wild berries? I like salmon well enough, but berries make my nether region itch.
sigs, as if you care.
I say you surf the net and find the biggest net geeks they can find that never log off. After a spot check at their house to see they do in fact only leave their room to shit, get pizza, soda, and beer then sign them up to be astronauts. These guys wouldn't even notice they have left earth, much less have difficulty handling the isolation. That is of course till Halflife 3 came out and wouldn't run on their computers.
Then we would have to have an emergency mission. Of course we could get ATI or NVIDIA to pay for the privlage of being "the official sponser of the graphics card upgrade rescue mission".
Wouldn't a long trip without the prospect of seeing friends and family for 4 years (assume 2 years each way) with lack of light and natural exercise plus the fact of being stuck with the same people cause depressive like symtoms in the astronauts.
E.g. Oversleeping, loss of appetite, general tiredness etc.
Would these symtoms actually be useful for a long Mars like trip or would it backfire with the astronauts freaking out?
Perhaps studies carried out of prisoners kept in near isolation with a borderline diet could give some pointers as to what to expect.
I thought that astronauts needed daily exercise to avoid bone and muscle loss.
Wouldn't sleeping during the trip be detrimental to their health?
Oh, and I don't thing that using small electric jolts to stimulate the muscles would work. There was a class action lawsuit against a company that sold such a device as exercise equipment because it didn't work. Repetitive arm movements to type and to use the mouse require more muscular strength than those devices produce but you don't see computer geeks (like me) with super strong forearms and wrists.
Cheers,
Adolfo
wont it be nice to have a president whose term in office you can sleep through?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I would just spend all day reading Slashdot.
Oh, wait...
The latest Slashdot meme.
Or hibernate prisonners so they take less place, surveillance and don't appeal... reminds me of some movie from Spi*lerg and/or book from P. K. D*ck. Frightening ?
Induction of hibernation has a much more practical purpose here on earth -- organ transplant.
If we could force an ex-planted organ into hibernation, then we wouldn't have to rush around trying to get organs into people within 6-12 hrs (it is different for each organ type).
Hiberation may also inhibit the reperfusion injury that often complicates transplant as well.
That's just the obvious use of medical hiberation. We already know that somebody can not be declared dead until they are "cold and dead." This is because the many cases of people appearing to be brain dead --especially children-- who have a complete recovery after warming. (So if you are going to drown, please do so in a very cold lake.)
Imagine the day when people who are dying at home get placed into hiberation until they can be brought to the hospital and worked up. Instead of blindly trying treatments in the field, one could slow down the dying process until a cause of injury is found.
It has always amazed me that so many animals hiberate, but we can figure out how to translate that into humans.
How are they gonna get a brand-new, untried vehicle to run for a six-month trip each way, without multiple someones keeping an eye on things?
All they have to do is have some kind of automated assistant to keep an eye on things!
They could call it the Hybernation Assistance Lifeline.
It could do things like keep the radio antenna lined up with Earth, and manage the opening and closing of the pod bay doors.
I've always wondered why they dont send people who are use to sitting in a chair for months at a time. ;)
I know after I get HL2 I wont be on Slashdot for at least a week!
Make sure to send the astronauts with plenty of firepower. Chainguns, rocket launchers, armor and a chainsaw would be plenty enough to keep those aliens at bay. Don't let the spam get to the astronauts too. They'd be pretty pissed off at that.
So they are trying to make a human hibernate for 3 years? I wonder if 4 years is possible.
If Bush wins, I want to sleep right through it.
http://brandonbloom.name
Sleeping it off sounds like a great idea, if only muscle loss could be stopped during the rest period. Astronauts already have a hard enough time keeping in shape for their ride home when they're awake.
I wonder what the dreams would be like in extended Hibernation. I get some crazy dreams sometimes, what happens when you don't wake up for a few weeks?
I wonder what stage of sleep you would be in, REM sleep? Or would it be a differege stage that has fewer dreams?
I'm really curious what the studies will find out about dreams in Hiberantion.
Brandon Petersen
Get Firefox!
I'm curious to know the source the submitter had in mind when he stated that NASA is planning a manned mission to Mars before 2020. I have not seen anything like that come out of NASA.
The President's roadmap they recently adopted only had manned missions to the moon resuming by 2020.
Perhaps there will be less hibernating time necessary, but this method wouldn't be controversial if the mission were to the nearest star...
That's right, make it a one-way trip! Without the return leg, it would be substantially less expensive. And of course, yes, only send those of sound mind who freely decide to go, knowing they won't come back, at least not on this ship.* For that matter, it might even be less expensive to also send unpersonned supply ships every few months to keep them alive and exploring indefinitely than to do just one 'standard' round trip mission. The amount learned about Mars would certainly be much greater with a permanent base for the first mission than with several round trips in the same timeframe.
* How to handle the public reaction, or whether to tell the public the truth, and other such PR stuff is beyond the scope of this comment.
Well, here goes my karma...
Tag lost or not installed.
we could do the research, but without an obvious need such as space flight creates, we generally wouldn't
Hibernation has been of interest to physiologists, medical doctors, and biologists for a long time because it has lots of practical applications. Claiming that its "origin" is related to manned space travel is false advertising.
There are several possible ways around this:
As to the political will, these things can change very quickly. Imagine if China announced they were going to send a mission to Mars to claim it for China...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
You may not realize it, but there's a world of difference between sitting in your house as opposed to really being isolated. If you were to be ill or injured, you could seek a doctor. If something broke down, you could call a handyman. If the pizza and soda guy had delivery problems, you could get food elsewhere.
In space, you can do none of those things. Even if you don't need them, the knowledge that you can't get them is a heavy burden. If the food supply broke down, you would starve and it'd be longer to deliver emergency rations to you than the most obscure third world country on earth. Hell, your air supply could break down and you'd suffocate.
In addition, putting a bunch of introverts together will quickly lead to disaster, as they are forced to live on top of eachother in cramped quarters. Nowhere to be alone. Nowhere to go. Every annoying characteristic of your co-travelers, you will have to deal with.
For this sort of mission, you would want people that are more like polar scientists, people who've had to endure real isolation. If you want to test your suggestion, a polar base is where you'd send them. I bet most wouldn't last a month.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I'm a lot more interested in great new nuclear propulsion technologies than figuring out some way to pass the time.
Once we have a quick round-trip propulsion system, routine flights might be possible, opening up all kinds of possibilities.
Also, if we have a powerful propulsion system, it does start opening up even more far-flung expeditions, like unmanned long-term trips outside the solar system even.
Of course, IANARS.
If the problem is not to have the astronauts go insane with boredom en route to Mars, may I suggest that computer games could go a long way towards this goal?
I've gone for days at a time, waking up, getting on my computer until I have to go to sleep, then sleeping and doing it again. I could porbably do it for months at a time if I had to. I could, in THEORY, even take short breaks to "do astronaut stuff" like checking systems and what not.
If NASA wants to fund some kind of "lock me in a room and play games" challenge, I'll participate. ; -)
...some fake jobs to do. A computer panel full of buttons that have to be pushed in sequence daily or the whole ship explodes. Add to that some actual physical exertion (like removing axle rods from somewhere that are rusty) at random intervals as well. Keep it quiet so only the scientists and some engineers know what's up.
:)
Yeah, give the astronauts lots of fake jobs which will then lead to fake drama as someone forgets to pull rod 14 on schedule and the core threatens meltdown. Tie it in to emergency evac announcements and lots of flashing lights. I could see this being profitable from a television standpoint as well. That in turn will help fund the mission or a future mission like it.
Think about it this way: if you're always threatened by disaster but always avert it just in the nick of time, you never know if it's true or not. The astronauts will never wise up.