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PS3 and XBox 2 Processors to be Exactly the Same?
themuffinking writes "IBM (the manufacturers of some of the parts for the PS3 and Xbox 2) told Alex Albrecht that the processors they are putting in the new PS3 and Xbox2 are going to be the same processor, with the parts around it arranged slightly differently. Alex pried this information out of an IBM employee, likely while interviewing him for the show on which Alex is a cohost, The Screen Savers. Alex equivocates by saying "Now again, this is a rumor... so no Slashdotting". Too late for that, but keep in mind this is just hearsay at this point.
"No Slashdotting" is a sure way to get slashdotted, just as sure as saying "I'll get modded down" will get you modded up.
I doubt Sony will actually do this, since they are developing their own "grid" technology in their console and are not known for outsourcing the core of their business.
With that said, Alex is awesome. I liked Patrick and Leo. I liked Leo and Kate. I even liked Kevin and Patrick. I really like Kevin and Alex. The show is more immature now, but it's a lot funnier too! Alex is one of the funniest tv personalities I have ever seen.
PS - Vote tomorrow(if you're a US citizen registered to vote).
...is a PowerPC G5, will Sony use an emulation layer to make PS2 and PSX games cross-evolution compatible? I can't see them breaking that trademark functionality now, when the console market game is really starting to get interesting.
Informatus Technologicus
Is this the main CPU for the thing? 'Cause I thought the PS3 was supposed to use their goddamn stupid Cell tech. and the xbox 2 is using the PPC.
If Sony cancelled the Cell cpu, I'll laugh, and have one more thing to point out to Sony fanboys.
I thought the XBOX 2 was using some PowerPC derivative, and PS2 was going to use some CELL processor and you could buy 4 PS2's, and run a more graphically intense version of a game.
I thought the big thing with Sony was that they made pretty much everything in the PS2, so they didn't have to rely on other companies and suppliers, and thus got it at cost.
Going with the same CPU and the XBox 2 (with similar components) is going to mean that Sony is going to have to rely on external suppliers.
Since the PS3, XBox2, and Mac all use the same processor, porting games should be a snap, right?
Its been known for a long time now that both Mirosoft and the Cell where to have an IBM power based core... So build it up with some vague hype, and you get this article. Of course IBM gave their most recent power core to both of them, did you really think that either MS or Sony wanted an old PPC core? They both are looking and paying for the bleeding edge power core, which is what they got. Did anyone tell them Apple is going to be using the same CPU core too, oh no!!!! Geez what hype.
I remember reading something along these lines on the register or was it here on
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slashdot
It is certainly true to say that IBM are having to do with the new cell chip- but it is also doing this in partnership with hitachi and sony.
If the PS3 is to be using G5's (which are available now) then how come they are specifically branding it as CELL, plouging development costs into it when the chip already exists? Its idle speculation - and who knows who this infomation anway it could be IBM's tea boy for all we know
Nick...
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
IBM is also making the Gamecube chip. So if the gamecube get's a different chip, will it be less powerful? IBM must be in a tough position and probably has to make sure that each chip perform about the same.
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"Also he said they are hoping that Sony and Microsoft don't figure it out..."
That is the biggest load of crap ever. Alex - you got taken for a ride, and this 'guy' is now probably laughing his ass off.
I was under the impression that Sony manufactured all of the PS parts using its own companies. Doing so would make tremendous sense, since they would get a huge hunk of business out of it, as opposed to IBM.
A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
...Microsoft and Sony are going to be doing what Nintendo has done all along with the GameCube if this report is true.
I had the feeling before, that maybe CELL will be a PowerPC with (several?) custom vector coprocessors.
For PS2 compatibility they could just use the PStwo chipset, so they don't depend on MIPS. And I think they already announced that PS1 compatibility will either not happen, or be a software emulation.
But in general I think this is BS. Neither Microsoft or Sony are so stupid that they don't recognize a similar. What is most likely is that Sony just uses IBM's manufacturing plans.
And I couldn't really think of many reasons to change the core architecture from MIPS to Power. Sony already has toolchains for MIPS, and their engineers (and all licensees!) have a lot of experience with that.
As it says on his weblog, they are supposedly rearranging the components on the motherboard and hoping that Microsoft and Sony won't notice.
Honestly, I can't believe that a giant like IBM, or any of its decisions, would not forsee someone at Sony tearing open an XBox2 or someone at Microsoft tearing open a PS3, stripping it down to transistors and seeing what makes it tick. If I were working on the XBox2 team I'd have two PS3 preorders in as soon as I could - one so I could have, and one so I could dissect.
This is likely BS meant to start an uproar, or a misinterpretation (i.e. perhaps they are both using G5 processors with slight differences, or the chipset is slightly different). The machines won't be identical beyond what's required by the processors, I'm sure.
--Dan
I heard that the next XBOX will be red! I'm serious! Can we post it on /. please?
I hated Kate and Leopold. Typical stupid Meg Ryan romantic comedy. Oh, I know! I'll jump off a bridge and travel back in time!
MS had switched to PPC prior to the introduction
of XBox. Sony had planed to do something like a CMP game cube (sound familiar- PS1 and PS2 came out of Nintendo plans.) Sony borrowed the Cell fluff from IBM marketing hype. You can find the Cell buzz in the industry and occassionally in IBM stuff way prior to the partnership with Sony. Sony's Cell development money is really about becoming a PPC member and gaining a fab.
Ironically IBM would practically do that for free- its probably marketing money save for Sony trying to suck off the forbidden blue gene hype.
IBM has also announced that it has selected ATI to do the Graphics chips for the PS3. What does that say? What it really says is that these things are Apple PCs. Note the the Game Cube was nothing but a iMac G3. And an iMac G3 is nothing but a PCI PC running PPC and a unix varient. It might as well be a Linux PC.
Tie it all together and we see MS hedging its bets just like it did with MIPS, Alpha... and the original NT.
Bottom Line: All consoles are going to be WIN/XNA PCIe BTX(like) PPC varients of the Media Center PC. MS wins!
Don't think so? Remember Sony in the DVD forum saying that WMVHD would get included in the format over its dead body? Why is WMVHD now going to be included not just in HD-DVD but also in Blu-Ray? Why the changed time lines for the consoles? Why all the rhetoric from Peter Moore about Sony and Nintendo just Using XNA? Why all the lovie dovie between MS and Nintendo. Why is Nintendo saying its not about Hardware? Because it isn't.
THIS STUFF IS REAL.
So what is the difference between an Apple and a PC? Not much. Its operating system. If a PC were to somehow show up with an Itanium varient would it be a PC? Yes. What if it really were an 'IBM PC' (ala PPC) running Win/XNA? What if it were an IBM PC running Apple OSX? That is what a Mac is: a PC running OSX. And guess what, a PS3 will no be nothing more that a VAIO branded XBOX2. And NT on PPC helps MS with the embedded market.
And while we are at, lets realize that WiMax and big hard drives coupled with streaming and background downloading make the next gen optical disk (HD-DVD;Blu-Ray)and CES irrelevant.
True convergence is upon us. Next step involves serious losses in the Satilite,Cable,Telco, video store, software retail sectors.. and also in CES and CES retail.
Watch and see.
Toyotas and Fords both use combustion engines. Whoopee.
This is a huge blow for Sony, an admission that their brilliant Cell design sucks the big one? Ouch.
Someone needs to get on making a Dual emulator pronto!
Seems to me, that both the Xbox and PS2 will use a powerpc core.
Now as anyone knows, this does not make two processors the same. Its obvious this is speculative hype, hinting at something many observers have suggested over the past few months with the announcement of IBM supplying XBOX2 chips.
Let's not forget there is something else to Sony's chip design. It was designed by Kenny-boy remember? in *cooperation* with IBM? Hmm sounds like a propietary architecture based on a powerPC core to me... likelihood of a Ken Kutargi chip in an Xbox? not bloody likely.
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
Has anyone considered that the "Cell" chip of the PS3 is just a graphics processor (or maybe for more general use, but highly specialized just the same) and that they still need a GPU for controling the whole system?
So maybe they both use a PPC core, so what? Do you realize how many things have PPC cores in them? There are cars with them. Does that make your car an XBox II or PS3? Of course not.
I'm sure Sony and Microsoft know exactly what they are getting from IBM and what the similarities are (and arent). And I'm sure they all have numerous contracts and NDA's and other legal paperwork that would prevent IBM from "pulling a fast on" on sony and MS by giving them the "same chip rearranged", unless of course that's what they ordered.
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
United States Patent Application 20020138637
:D
Computer architecture and software cells for broadband networks
Human readable www.ps3land.com/CELL.ppt
It seem the PS3 "cell" processor will be using the PPC architecture as the "Processor Unit" of the "Processor Element" not to mention it will have more than one (4).
While the Xbox 2 will probably use the G5 (PPC arch) the same way it is used in a PowerMac
Yea, so you gotta better idea for figuring out time travel?
I don't think the ps1/2 mips chip is SGI's at all. It doesn't have a test-and-set instruction, for one thing. (Which is why postgresql is such a dog on the ps2 -- you need TAS for quick mutex support.)
I think that makes sense. And shows (one more time) how Sony lies with respect to their future technology. They were hyping the CELL as the new supercomputer, revolutionary, etc. But, at the end, it will probably be just a powerpc processor (still a great processor).
Still, the PS3 should be more powerful than Xbox2, since it will come out almost a year after.
I might be crazy, but I have a theory where game companies consoles have the most success with their 2nd system and begin puttering out with the 3rd system...
1. NES...Good system...great seller
2. SNES...Best system of all time
3. N64...UH-Oh, not a bad system, but Uh-OH
We're now soon approaching the PS3, which I think may follow in the footsteps of the N64, which was a decent system, but nowhere close to the success of PS1 or even SNES. Therefore, I predict Xbox2 will emerge as the new "PS2" and we'll enter Pax Microsoftana for a while until X3 or whatever we call it. Same can be applied to portables....GBA is amazing, but will the DS, or 3rd entry into the fray be successful? Following my arbitrary model, then no, although I'm hoping it is.
Thank you for reading
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I posted yes & NO
I don't buy all that special Ken stuff.
All of these systems will look like Game Cubes internally. In the case of the PS3 it will have one graphic asic with an ATI instruction set implemented in a Toshiba MePs chip, also packed in here will be some extra vector stuff. The other chip will be a PPC.
But I expect Cell to be some sort of communications gimmick. It will be something like a WiMax Mesh implemented in PPC so that Sony can try to play catch up with broadband and Everquest.
XBox 2 PPC, hell that's been known for a while.
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This is one way to have your homepage seen.
/. conver the story=)
First of all put a picture of your self on your homepage. Start a rumor, put it on your homepage, have
I would like to see games come with a sticker: PS3 and XBox2 compatible=)
Apple has announced a PPC chip shortage and won't be able to make next year's targets.
Seriously, what DOESN'T have a PowerPC in it?
Don't tell Alex the chip is similar to the G5, or he might start smashing perfectly good XBox and Playstations on the air to appear as an even bigger idiot then when he smashed the working Mac instead of either trying OS X, or donating it.
I stopped watching The ScreenSavers often when G4 took over, and completly when it moved to LA.
Does anyone have a link to something saying this? There seem to be a lot of rumors saying this, although they all seem very sketchy.
PS3 will be different... It'll be slightly faster... TO THE MAX!
PowerPC is an architecture, its not just a proprietry brand like "G5" which everyone here seems fixated with. The G5 is just an *implementation* of the PPC architecture.
This is why PowerPC has supported 64bit, way before anyone but IBM actually *implemented* it.
Also, why would IBM make up a whole new ISA just for Sony, if anyone can license PPC?
"My cat's breath smells like cat food." - The Tao of Ralph Wiggum.
sony likes nintendo- PS1/PS2 were offshoots of a nintendo project. sony likes apple. Think of all those sony displays and other such things that have been apple branded.
nintendo game cube is a iMac G3. An iMac G3 or any Mac for that matter is a PCI or now PCIe based IBM PC running Unix.
Nintendo is ordering up another IBM PC to be its next console. So is Sony and so is MS.
This is not a coincidence.
Who has complete cross licensed access to the Apple patent portfolio? That would be Microsoft.
Who owns the SGI graphic patent portfolio ATI uses to make chips with and which all three consoles are going to use (Yes IBM announced that it selected ATI for Sony's IBM PC's graphics)? That again would be Microsoft.
Who put Microsoft in Power? That would be IBM.
Look at Sony's reversal on its dead body statements. Conclusion: Consoles are now PC or IBM PCs or if we get really technical they are still Wintel, because regardless of IBM's Linux dabblings and the continued existence of Apple the lodge room collusions have long meant that IBM and Wintel are one anti-trust impervious unit.
that the US IT business has secured the console back door and gained control of the living room at incredible expense to Japanese CES and IT. Or should we say regained? On another level DLP has replaced trinitron and the Asian tigers have cut all the first world profit out of accessory CES. CES is dead.
No, this is one of the cost constraints and one of the reason that people have speculated that the PS3 may be overpriced. They are going to be adding an extra chip that includeds the hardware to run both PS1 and PS2, just like they did with PS2. On the otherhand I've heard that it won't run PS1. This add on is like having to pay for the inclusion of a large piece of the PS2 on top of the price of the PS3.
Eitherway I think a PS2 emmulator for Xbox 2 is possible and even practical. But also the ageing games library for PS2/PS1 just isn't going to matter that much especially when the newer XBOX games are so much better as they are able to take advantage of the XBOX's greater capacity.
Even publishers are finding that the Xbox is easier, cheaper and faster to develop for and also the result turn out better- and further that attached sales are always higher even if the market is smaller.
That is probably just subterfuge to keep Sony's total sell out position out of the news and keep from being investigated.
Sony is selling out to Samsung in Displays and same thing here, they knew they did not have the technical prowess to handle this project so they handed the entire thing save for things like case design and marketing over the US IT firms.
When Sony and Nintendo release at a later date than Microsoft they will be accused of being copy cats. This will happen relentlessly and it will stick. Why? Because they all went to IBM the original maker of the PC. Remember the "IBM PC." When you go to a PC maker (or originator) you have to realize that the firm immediatly following any given PC hardware maker is MICROSOFT. The situation is actually much worse than say- Toyota going to GM to make the motor for the top Lexus sedan.
That would be Microsoft. Why? Because the global cross licensing agreement with Apple means that Microsoft has access to all of Apples intellecual property royalty free. Apple needed cash, Jobs wanted in and MS needed a Anti Trust hedge and Apples great properties- but also embedded market gains. Kind of points out why MS could switch to PPC before the current Xbox was even finished. Now consider that MS bought all of SGI's patents and that ATI is just an SGI knock off.
Now really really think about who actually designed the game cube. The game cube ala pipen and like is just an Apple iMac G3. Sony took a failed Nintendo project for the PS1 & PS2 and was planning to do a CMP Game Cube for the PS3.
Too bad XNA will be as good as if Apple had written it- yes Apple one of the original PPC partners.
Now Sony and Nintendo will be labled as Copy Cats! The only thing that can possibly save them is introducing prior to Microsoft but that will not happen.