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Dell Infringes on Patent by Selling Overseas?
senior.wrangler writes "Looks like new evidence that the U.S. Patent Office is hiring monkeys to bulk-approve new patents. DE Technologies has been granted a patent covering international transactions handled over the computer. Here's a quote from their web site:
With patent coverage securing 80% of the world 's trading markets, DE Technologies is securing licensing arrangements with international trading participants. Kinda creepy, if you ask me."
Who the fuck is going to be interested in licensing something that obviously has prior art written all over it? I live in Mexico and have been buying stuff from Amazon numerous times for like 5 years. Does that count as international transactions over the computer?
Go hug some trees.
Damn the monkeys, first Shakespeare, now this?
The way the summary describes it, doesn't just about any company that does internation business violate this patent?
An international transaction done by a computer. Every online store would pretty much be guilty of this, as would all offline stores who use a computer to send out their merchandise. This is byfar one of the worst ones yet.
A method of saving money on white collar labor by conducting work in cheaper areas overseas via computer.
Wipro, I own you!
Monstar L
..is even reading the patent requests anymore. I bet it's an assembly line with a big approved stamp at the end.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
Monkeys dont get no respect around here!
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be
Sounds like another one for Public Patents.
Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
This may be the big one folks. There is so much prior art for this that its not even funny. Not only that, this is the backbone of the world's economy and its rigorous enforcement may well wake up the world to the problem of broad software patents and bring about quick change to the patent system.
May it be rigorously enforced for the good of humanity.
Unknown host pong.
Since the quotes from this posting were a little out of place, I first read this as follows.
Here's a quote from their web site: "With patent coverage securing 80% of the world 's trading markets, DE Technologies is securing licensing arrangements with international trading participants. Kinda creepy, if you ask me."
If even DE Technologies can publicly admit their scheme is "creepy", you know something's rotten in the state of Denmark.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
You know, I'd patent the idea of using monkeys to come up with patent applications, but there's prior art.
So lets get this straight, I could write down some over englished definition of something vague and then as long as nobody else has been vague or the patent clerc checking the application has no common sence. I could in theory get a patent about discussing patents and charge you all commision by tea time. :D
:/.
Does prior art mean nothing in this, hell what next backdated claims to sue Columbus
Perhaps a patent about issueing patents then taking the patent office to court for infringment and see them sort out this common sence/prior art monkey-fooing.
A spammer has been using my email address as a forged return address for some time now. I knew there was trouble when this showed up in my inbox:
From: patent-approvals@uspto.gov
Subject: (auto-reply) Your patent
Your patent submitted to patent-approvals@uspto.gov for "A new medical miracle! Better than V|agr.a" has been granted. Your patent number is 54594523345. Your patent certificate will be mailed to:
OptInRealHard
Service Dept.
Box 450
Sarasota FL
Unknown host pong.
The people at that company are jumping up and down "I can't believe we got it Jack! We hit the lotto! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...let's call our lawyers, man I can't believe the patent system IS THAT BAD!" -cheers-
blah
job qualifications.
:-)
... i just hope they strike down the 'discharging amonia waste into a porcelain structure' patent because I really really gotta go. ~BS
Home of the EULA shirt
I remember hearing that some computer store was taking orders over their dial-up BBS in the 1980s. I don't see any technical reason that such a setup couldn't have been used from long-distance dialup from another country to perform a transaction via computer.
How about Interac (direct payment) machines? I know I've been able to use my Canadian debit card in the US long before Amazon became big. I think that qualifies as an international transaction via computer as well.
How can anyone take this out-of-work patent attorney loser seriously? His patent is lame, his business model is lame and even his website is totally lame....NICE JPEG JIGSAW PUZZLE YA DUMB TURD! That "1996 school of WWW design techniques" screams "innovative" about as loudly as your stupid patent.
There is a popular story that some official of the U.S. patent office resigned some time in the 19th century, or even wrote a letter to the president suggesting shutting it down, because he thought that everything that could be invented already had been invented.
This article inspired me to find out more about that and found that it was a myth. Interesting though.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
...that he licences to the patent office. Something like:
"A method for reviewing and granting patent requests automatically via computer"
Might explain what's going on out there.
I find it amazing (I guess I shouldn't) that we are seeing all of this commentry, but as of yet no reference to the actual patent.
As far as I can see the article does not mention it.
Does anyone have a reference to it so we can actually discuss this sensibly, or would we all prefer to keep shooting off our mouths in ignoarnce of the actual issue?
About a week ago, as part of a field trip for Computer Systems in high school, I got to take a tour of one of Engenio's (hard drive controller manufacturer) engineering facilities. On their wall of patents, one of the plaques said it was a patent for "Enclosure". Nothing else, just the word Enclosure. I assume they're talking about some particular method of enclosing hard drive controllers, but still, you'd think the Patent Office would be a little more specific than just "Enclosure".
Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
The actual patent is #6,460,020. I would summarize it by saying that it covers writing a program to do all of the stuff you need to do to sell products internationally, including currency conversion, tariff and shipping calculations, etc. Sounds pretty obvious to me. Enjoy...
I am of the mindset that a computer is simply a tool with which to do things I normally couldn't do.... like compute primes faster than my monkey brain could ever hope to...
A car also lets me do things I normally couldn't do (like move in 3d space at a rate of 60mph)...
Is someone going to patent the idea of me driving my car so that I may get to work on time? The logic is the same IMHO....
> Looks like new evidence that the U.S. Patent
> Office is hiring monkeys to bulk-approve new
> patents.
Not monkeys: very efficient clerks. It takes skill to wield a rubber stamp that fast.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/09/04 0259&tid=155&tid=98&tid=17
2 21226
5
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/20/0
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/28/18525
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
The patent can be found here: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r =4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1='DE+Technologies'&OS =%22DE+Technologies%22&RS=%22DE+Technologies%2 2
And yes, it is as bad as it seems.
Surely you mean "writing works of meaningless tripe over a network of digital computers"...
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
Okay, yeah, these guys are slime and need to go back to the hole they crawled out of. Let's help speed up that process.
The patent abstract is this: An international transaction system for operation over the internet/intranet provides a pre-transactional calculation of all charges involved in any international transaction. Upon the option of the customer, the goods can be viewed on catalogue sheets translated to a language of the customer's choice, and the price provided in a currency selected by the customer. The customer also has the option of initiating the order with automatic credit authorization, generation of an electronic title or commercial invoice and arrangements and payment of shipping charges and any taxes and import/export duties.
It is dated December 29th, 1997. Let's do a little thinking and find any instances of prior art. Yeah, it should be a "dude, we all know that was happening before then" scenario, but let's actually find something concrete and send the bastards packing. Let the happy hunting begin.
It's not stupid. It's advanced.
Hey, if you take me to court because I breathe then I'm going to slam you with my heart beat patent.
If I were you I'd settle outside the courts.
Otherwise we'd have to agree to not infringe on our respective patents and I can hold my breath for over a minute.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
from http://www.detechnologies.com/pos_papers/patent_po sition_paper.doc
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
So cheer on the next time you hear about a really stupid, indefensible patent, and think to yourself "We're one step closer to making the whole thing so stupid that it will have to be scrapped."
When I was at Palm, they paid us bonuses for filing for patents, and then extra bonuses for getting the patents. My name is on the patent for the web based calendar. How stupid is that? Apparently not stupid enough. A year later I got a patent for pretty much the same damn thing -- a method of scheduling events over the web. Now when I was doing this, I just wanted the $$$ Palm was paying me to think up stupid ideas, which they would then patent. Then after I left Palm, I felt guilty I had given them all these patents they might use to stifle innovators (namely me). But now I cheer! Because those patents are so dumb that they will fail under challenge, and as more and more patnets fail under challenge, things will start to get better.
Want to help? Apply for more and more stupid patents. See what it takes to get a patent rejected. Break the system.
As an aside, we also just got threatened by Acacia for streaming oggs. Honestly...where DO these people get the balls...
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
Is this why Amazon has different sites in each country ?
www.amazon.co.uk quotes prices in GBP
www.amazon.fr quotes prices in EUR
www.amazon.com quotes prices in USD, even though the system knows I live in the UK.
Did Amazon know this patent existed, or is it just the way they designed their business ?
It can't be "kinda creepy." Tom Delay and Dick Cheney have a patent on that, and they WILL sue!
But Officer, I DID read the f**king article!
Fixed:
The patent in question: #6,460,020
--
Bush Supporters Misread Many of His Foreign Policy Positions
You just voted in a government that is the one government singularly unwilling to do anything about this problem. If you think Bush and Cheney and co will do one single thing to change the patent system that gives them huge kickbacks, you are dreaming. Expect nothing, absolutely nothing to be done about this for the next 4 years.
The general criteria for a patent is that it must be novel, not obvious to those working in the same field, and of practical use. Looking at the patent, it violates the 'not obvious' part of the criteria. It seems to be saying that it's not obvious to string together all the functions that would be needed to do business internationally over the internet.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,460,020.WKU.&OS=PN/6,460,020&RS =PN/6,460,020
Isn't it Boca Raton, FL where Scott Richter lives, works, and spams?
Abstract as follows: "This application is for a patent for a process for an invention cataloging, protection, and revenue system. Prospective inventors shall submit written descriptions of innovations to a central office, whereby a simian shall stamp it with an approval. The resultant invention can be defended by litigation. The inventor shall form a stock-issuing corporation of which can bring suit against any other use of such invention. Funds then can collected from many companies to the inventions shareholders."
Now I am not sure from the article whether this company has been threatening smaller companies to build up a war chest and is only now suing a big fish like dell but I think it is a big mistake. Dell is a very wealthy company and their corporate image leads me to believe that they are not the type to settle on something like this. They certainly have the resources ($10 million) to fight this out to the bitter end and win and any percentage desired by these patent terrorists (if its ok for them to call me a pirate, then I can call them a terrorist), of Dell's international business, which is a big growth market, will be more than the cost of fighting it out and probably winning. They would have to find a one in a million appeals judge to enforce this patent and risk virtually the entire US export economy, of which almost all of it is going to involve electronic transactions or already does.
My employer was conducting foreign exchange over a network over two years before this stupid patent was filed and doing internet transactions over a year before the patent was granted.
Your patent office is very dangerous and should be closed down and audited.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Does this patent have:
- Novelty? - Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but this hasn't been novel for a LOOOOONG time.
- Utility? - Definitely. But so does a pair of scissors.
- Non-obviousness? - Yeah, right. The patent was granted in 2002. This was non-obvious in 2002?
Ugghhh.Start a happiness pandemic
Does your employer still have the old version of its software from before December 30, 1996 posted somewhere? Is there an article in a magazine/newspaper/journal that describes how your employer operated its online transactions prior to December 30, 1996? Is there any public record at all of your employer's operations that give a technical description of its transactions prior to December 30, 1996?
If none of this crap exists when the application was examined how in the hell do you expect anyone to find it?
One of the big problems with software patents is there is no good central location which describes all the programs which have existed, how they operated and when they were introduced. Without this its nearly impossible to find dated evidence that some of these ideas were known at the time the application was filed.
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
Im going to patent the "idea of selling marihuana through internet", you see, since it was illegal before internet creation, there is no prior art, and some day, when marihuana gets outlawed, i will be rich....or dead.
There are already some shops selling marihuana and hash over the internet here in the Netherlands.
Prior art....
Can we have some sort of /. competition where everyone thinks of the most stupid and anoying idea they can patent and we all chip-in some money and get the winner patented and cause as much hassle to the worlds economy with it as we can?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
(1) Method for cyclic contraction and decontraction of a variable-volume gas containment to facilitate a gas exchange by means of one or more gas exchange units located in the containment. The gas exchange takes place between the performing entity and the exterior gas mixture through a bi-directional gas channel connected on one end to the contracting and decontracting variable-volume containment and the exterior on the other. The contraction of the variable-volume containment creates an overpressure in the containment that drives a current of gas through the channel out of the containment. The decontraction creates an underpressure that reverses the direction of the current.
"But there's too much obvious prior art for this!"
Yes there may be, but it won't affect claim (2) of the patent application and the other ones:
(2) Said Method where the CO2 content of the exterior gas mixture is equal to or greater than 0.0385 percent.
Note to readers: Current atmospheric CO2 concentration is about 0.038 percent and raising
(3) (2) where air flow caused by the contraction of the variable-volume gas containment incites self-
propagating pressure gradients,which are used for linguistic or artistic communication between entities, by means of a device embedded in the bi-directional channel or or by the modulation of the geometry of the exit valve which may also be used as entrance for the intake of liquids and solids which serve as a power source to the entity.
***TODO for the patent lawyer: convert these claims to patent-speak***
(4) Breathing while doing something else.
(5) Breathing while having drunk something in the past 24 hours.
DISCLAIMER: Only funny while still unreal.
To be precise: I helped build a tour operating system used to provide travel agents with tools to book voyages. Now, this is an example from 1993 but we all know that similar systems (SABRE, AMADEUS) are old and go back to at least the 1980s.
The system we built conforms pretty much to the criteria of the patent. Note that the patent does not say this is a "self-service system", it describes only the mechanisms for conducting an international transaction.
I'd add that in 1995 this was perhaps not obvious, even if today it's laughably so. However, there is most definitely prior art.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.