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Best Buy: 20% Of Customers Are Wrong
Mr Show writes "Ars Technica has an article up discussing Best Buy's strategies to drive off the deal hunters. It's a good follow up to the Slashdot story from back in July, and offers some details on what they're actually trying to do."
Best Buy recently changed the terms of their "Reward Zone" package to make it harder to earn certificates, and one specific tactic they are using is deducting the value of rebates from what they count towards earning a certificate. So, picking up a "Free after rebate" deal is now worthless according to their program.
I would've expected it to be much higher. "What do you mean I can't play Playstation games on my Xbox?"
I'd guess that I look like a Barry to them, but next time I walk into best buy, I'm wearing a name tag "Buzz", just so they don't get it wrong. When I was working in the service industry, I used to tell my trainees "The Customer isn't always right, but it's not my job to tell them that."
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
I love these huge companies that cant take it when the average joe bites back a little. We all hate mosquitos but we have to deal with them. If they are gonna keep this "hate" up then they will lose my money plain and simple, maybe we would be nicer if they weren't trying to shove a warranty down our throats on every little item we buy.
Ubuntu- Linux for human beings.
What they are basically saying is that 20% of customers are wrong "for Best Buy." In essence, they are trying to rid themselves of intelligent shoppers who look around for the best deal and are usually more knowledgeable about what they buy and instead cater to the sheep and the unwashed masses that will buy anything regardless of features and price simply because a Best Buy salesman tells them too.
This is yet another attempt to dumb down consumers to make the more receptive to truly weak sales pitches. Best Buy won't be getting any more of my business if they value this philosophy.
cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
The devils are its worst customers. They buy products, apply for rebates, return the purchases, then buy them back at returned-merchandise discounts.
Kudos to the people who figured this out, but clearly it is costing Best Buy money. These are customers that should be weeded out. It's Best Buy's fault for allowing this scenario to happen.
Once someone discovers something that is "too good to be true" like the returning scenario, many people start doing it, and the company catches on. Since they're losing money, they stop it.
The other things in TFA, like profiling customers and selling them what their profile dictates is just common sales practice. Sure they might be forcing people to get things they might not want/need, but then again, when was the last time a sales person tried to sell you something you don't need (car options, clothes, dinner specials, etc). It's the nature of capitalism to increase the profits.
"They can wreak enormous economic havoc," says Mr. Anderson.
I think this explains alot...
Best Buy's rebate scams are among the worst in the industry. I've been told that something would be free after rebate, only to find out the rebate expired a week before I purchased the item.
I wonder to myself ... what customer gave feedback that they wanted to the program to be more difficult to earn rewards?
I'm sure everybody who reads Slashdot has been in the position of being asked by their non-geek friends and family about potential purchases... so the customers that Best Buy sees as losers may have a bunch of profitable customers behind them that they could very easily send to Circuit City instead. I wonder if Best Buy's models take that into account.
...do we still hate Circuit City over the DIVX debacle, or can we forgive them now?
Just pay in cash. Then they can't track you and put your info into demographic databases. Those rebates are another matter, but for purchases, cash 'll do it.
Oh, and when you carry that cash, be extra cool and put the money in an aluminum briefcase that's handcuffed to your wrist.
[better formated for easier reading] (i just made this at Ars.. but thought it would bring more light into the discussion here)
i worked for best buy for just about a year and quit around the time they were doing this training. instead of just one generalized customer, they've created 5 categories that would best fit their target groups. not all stores have all these categories. some stores may be a Jill or Barry, while others may be more of a Buzz. let me explain.
Barry - usual income is over $100,000 - wants a "my guy" type of environment (similar to having a specific mechanic you go to, they want to be the epicenter where "Barry"s go for high end products, installation, information, etc). - time = money, so having a specialized, well trained place (a Barry specific store) to go to grab everything from install to products will be worth the money. they could care less about spending time to bargain shop. - will pay extra to have product delivered, installed, set-up in house
Jill - "soccer mom" - will want a "shopping friend" that will help her pick out all the products with her (a specific Best Buy employee will literally guide her through the store and shop with her) - a prime target for in-home installations
Buzz - early adoptor - wants the latest and greatest and usually doesn't stop to think about the price - 18-30 age group, college students, disposable income
Ray - wife, and 2 1/2 kids - must consult with wife before buying - tendency to look for bargains
Best Buy for Business - small business owner - will have a specific employee assigned to him/her as a conduit for business transactions - target for Best Buy's Geek Squad (tech department; aside from regular computer problems general customers have, Geek Squad for business users will be more of an "on-call" IT department. small businesses don't need a full-time techie on their pay-roll. so Geek Squad can come in for a "small" fee per hour, or last i heard, Businesses can pre-pay for an alotted amount of time per month)
working for Best Buy gives one a different perspective. as the management says, they must continue growing to avoid Circuit City scenarios, or Walmart/K-Mart power shifts. the main competition they see is Walmart, Dell, Amazon, Ebay, and a fifth that slips my mind. so in order to grow, they're trying ot learn more about their customers. they're catering to specific customer needs of the area. so your local store can be labeled one of the 5 possible categories or a mix of them. employees are trained to identify who best fits what mold so they can pass them off to someone who can better help with your needs. the cynic in me also thinks the best employee to grab every possible penny from the customer, but that's just, argueably, business.
just to give everyone the heads up though about a simple fact. from last i heard from management, if you look at the top ten list of what makes Best Buy profit, #1 is home theatre (big screen TVs, etc). want to know #2-10 ? it's their PRP/PSP (product replacement plan and product service plans). that's the main reason they push customers so hard about them.
also, people sometimes wonder how they measure performance. employees aren't measured by individual performence (and that means non-commision). the deparments must reach given daily monetary amounts and percentages for specific things and that's how management keeps track. they make sure each employee says they are no on comission. what they don't say though is, the sales managers that are hounding each employee about the performance of numbers is given a "bonus" for the sales/rank/etc every month. so in essence, *they* are getting the comission.
that's enough rambling from an ex-employee. hope it gives people a clearer picture. and for those wondering, i was in the computer sales / tech departments.
hackers of the world unite!
That article was pretty good, but you might want to think about getting our extended warranty plan for it. Everybody who reads that article gets it.
Well, there was one guy here who didn't get it, I heard something happened with his ears after he read the article and he was left helpless and with some HUGE bills. The bills were bigger than just getting the warranty and even more than a new article would have cost.
We were trained to recognize the people who would refuse extended warranties. They're like Barry's, but we call them Dingle Barry's since they're really like unwanted poop that clings to us. If you tell me one more time you're refusing the warranty, I'm going to get on my radio and "start combing out the 'barry's" so to speak.
Any retailer with a brain, so to speak, has people working in loss prevention. And of course, they want to eliminate fraud. The first level of defence is, of course, with employees. Then, its with customer policy, and finally, with best buy, its with the actuall customer base.
This is probably a very intelligent scheme, and certainly the first of many from America's electonic retailers.
The thing that worries me the most about this policy is the concept of quickly "pigeonholing" customers and treating them a certain way depending on how you have categorized them.
As a young adult, I run into plenty of prejudice among employees and managers (though most of it is annoying rather than seriously detrimental). Would they look at me, and decide, "Here is a young person. He doesn't have a lot of money, so we're not going to waste time helping him find what he wants, since he probably couldn't afford it anyway."
What if they do the same thing based on ethnicity? or noticable disability? or a myriad of other potential factors that go into stereotyping?
All I can do is hope that the free market will sort things out, and prove to Best Buy that this policy is hurtful to customers.
Love the Third Amendment?
They buy products, apply for rebates, return the purchases, then buy them back at returned-merchandise discounts.
I wouldn't even stretch to call people who would do this shoppers. Thats not looking for the best deal, thats borderline robbery. If you engage in that sort of activity, I'm sure you promising to never shop there again is exactly what they want. Win/win.
They said they are putting their employees through hours of training on how to interview us customers.
Shouldn't they be training them on the stuff they sell?
Everytime I go in there to buy a camera, I'm usually faced with a deer-in-headlights sales man who only know how to say, "I'm sure it's in the manual." And I end up helping the poor helpless chap next to me who thinks a 9 mega pixel still camera will produce wide screen movies!!
Get real Best Buy!
Another trick Best Buy has is the extended warranty. It sounds like a great idea, and it is. Extended two year warranty, no questions asked, for a few extra dollars. However, you need the warranty receipt. Most people lose it after a few months, usually sooner, or totally forget about it. Two years is a long time. Only a small percentage of those who get the warranty actually cash it in so to speak. That's where a lot of their profits are coming from.
The next time I go into Best Buys (or Future Shop in Canada; they are the same company) I am going to try an act like a Barry or a Buzz and see what kind of interest I get.
/. has got to be a bad deal for them.
It seems that the publishing of this info is going to hurt Best Buy the most. If they were to target their *devil* customers and kept it on the lo-down, maybe nobody would have noticed. Having it on
Thanks for the idea about getting a rebate (although I still hate them) and then returning the product. That's a great plan. I'll be sure to try it out this weekend.
As long as any retailer makes buying appliances and electronics a negotiation, this is what they get. As long as they use service plans as a negotiation tool, this is what they get. As long as rebates exist as a tool for bringing in the masses, then this is what they get. As long as these stores advertise loss leaders in the Sunday paper, then this is what they get. Best Buy and stores like Best Buy have become the car dealers of the electronics world. They're own practices have brought this upon them, I have no sympathy.
So basically, they want people who :
:
- Don't buy their "loss leaders", but stock up on their overpriced stuff.
- People who don't check other companies price, but get attracted by the "Best price policy"
- People who don't return their mail-in rebates.
Why don't you just ask me to give you my money?
On the Canadian side, FutureShop is exactly like that : Best price policy, overpriced stuff... and they "labeled" me a devil, for sure (a seller once "recognized" me : "Yes, I remember you...", first time I meet the guy). When price matching Camera-Canada for a new Canon G5, a seller even told me
-"I can't match that price, maybe remove 50$ off the total but that's it".
-"But your policy is to match the price, and remove 50% of the difference"
-"Yeah but I'll lose money that way!"
-"Well its not MY policy, isn't it?"
They promise you customer heaven, but slowly draggin you in hell. They're the devils, not us, the intelligent customers.
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
I fit the profile of a "bad" customer: I watch the rebates and advertised prices and make sure I'm not paying more than I have to. They probably want to be rid of me. But, when it comes to computer parts and systems, a lot of my friends who fit the "good" BB profile come to me for a recommendation. If BestBuy's been pushing me out, you can bet I'm not going to recommend going to them. End result: annoying me, the "bad" customer, causes "good" customers to end up somewhere else.
Damn dude, you are bad! I can see you in the store now, crowd of Best Buy employees (Besties as we call them) standing around you, shouting, insulting your wardrobe, ridiculing your taste in fine bargain house electronics. You stand, resolute, solid, refusing to give ground, waving your coupon and your rebate form with an air of intelligent superiority.
Buy on dude, buy on!
I just went shopping for a computer at BestBuy with my dad last night. He selected one (going against my advice that he avoid intel and buy amd), and sent the clerk to get the box. The clerk returns with the shopping cart, containing the computer, a UPS, and a copy of Norton Antivirus. Here is the actual conversation that followed:
Clerk: I just added these for you.
Dad: Why?
Clerk: This is a UPS. It will protect you against power surges and lightning. And this will protect you against all those viruses.
Dad: I already have a surge protector.
Clerk: Surge protectors are useless against power surges.
[A moment of silence, no doubt induced by the store's mind-numbing window dressing]
Me: Just the computer will be fine.
Clerk: Okay, but if lightning hits it tonight and you bring it back to us tomorrow, we won't take it.
Dad: That's fine. I'll buy another one.
We proceed to checkout, where we are told that not purchasing a service plan puts our souls in danger of perdition, etc. My father has agreed to let me build his next computer.
Man, Dell makes a living off being that girl that drops by 5 minutes after your girlfriend dumps you. And you wake up the next morning with a headache, an empty wallet, and a big smile.
This is the biggest "scam" of all: selling "extended warranties". I nver buy them and use the rationale of self-insurance.
These "extended warranties" are an insurance policy. The buyer is buying insurance, not a warranty.
Question: why buy insurance if you can insure yourself. Think of it this way: most people could afford the loss that the insurance covers, so, if you really want to be anal about it, instead of buying the insurance, put the money into an account. Pretty soon, that account will have sufficient funds in it to cover any losses that you could possibly imagine an extended warranty covering. The difference is that it now YOUR MONEY, not the insurance companies'.
You will be in effect, your own insurance company.
There is a small, but finite chance that over the long term you will be worse off if you self insure, but I think most people would acknowledge that the risk is small in comparison to the gain.
Since, for many sales by Best Buy and others, there is no profit on the sale of the item itself and only the extended warranty provides all of the profit, that's why I will never be the sort of buyer Best Buy are looking for. Of course, I can always let a sales assistant THINK I'm going to buy the warranty, right up to the time comes to actually pay!
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Electronic equipment usually fails in the first few days of use or else much later when it's lifetime is over. The extended warranty basically covers the period in between when the equiment is not expected to fail, therefore it's a waste of money (besides most people forgetting the receipt, not caring to use it, etc.).
Don't act shocked by Best Buy's policies. They've deliberately made an effort to make their pricing confusing in order to cull an extra few dollars out of the "unwashed masses" that come through their doors. You are exactly right that they (BB) are attempting to rid themselves of the smart consumers. Their policy seems to be more about differential pricing and impulse purchases than about offering a fair deal to everyone. That's just the way they operate, they've picked their target/strategy and they'll try to milk it for everything they can take. Get over it, spread the word, and shop somewhere else! I'm not saying that you (writer) have any problem with it, I've just seen some of the other "OUTRAGED" responses and feel they're misguided.
We all know that rebates will most likely NOT get sent in, extra money for them... Most people will buy the service policy AND throw the unit away when it breaks 6mos. later. Don't fall for these stunts... That's the best way to transmit the message to the Best Buy management. Punish them on the bottom line. That's all they've thought of, so it must be important to them. Show them that you are watching too. Say "NO" to the service plan, no matter how many times they ask, then walk out without purchasing anything when they try again (for the 4th time).
Secondly, there must be a supplier SOMEWHERE that treats the customer like they're smart and offers a fair deal without the tricks. Seems like that merchant should be looked to as the "place where cool & tech. savy people" shop. That would help boost their sales as almost EVERYONE would want to be flattered by being thought of as "hip" and "tech. savy" just for shopping there. You get the idea, it spirals up... Help those places to succeed!
Changing this works a little like the election strategy, when you get another customer to switch, you actually hurt Best Buy TWICE! Once when they lose the customer, and again when they vote with their dollars for the competition, making them relativly weaker in the marketspace.
Anyone reading this, start the change by putting down some places where you've felt like you got an AWESOME deal without any tricks, from a sales guy that you trusted and who didn't try to sell you with a bunch of technobabble (that you know is false). The list of Cool places to shop starts here --> (you reply)
Customer: Hi, I'd like to buy this TV.
Salesguy: I won't sell it to you.
Customer: What? Why not? Isn't it the TV you advertised in this morning's paper as being on sale?
Salesguy: Yes, you see, that TV there is just a ploy to get you into the store. I'm not allowed to sell it to you, I'm supposed to convince you that this TV is just a "basic" model and this other TV we have here for $300 is much better.
Customer: I guess I'll just need to take my business elsewhere, then,
Salesguy: Good idea!
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
'Problem' customer: "Oh yeah! Well I'm gonna make your life miserable Best Buy! You say you don't want us 'problem' customers, huh? Fine! I'm gonna suck up your abuse and shop here EXCLUSIVELY!!"
Best Buy Guy (Sounding like Mr. Burns): "Excellent"
For four years ending in early 2000, I owned a computer store.
The name of the store was "Computers Cheap!" which was a great draw for audience. We were the only guys in town who'd sell a used computer with warrantee.
But, with a name like "Computers Cheap!" you can be sure that we got plenty of people we called "bug people". Named after the nerdy entymologists on "Silence of the Lambs", they were people who had lots of time, and very little money. They were VERY good at wasting time and demanding refunds on used, "AS-IS" hardware that turned out not to work.
We built our own customer-filter - the $1 box. A box set in the corner, with a bright orange sign that said something like: "Wow! $1.00, no warrantee". It was filled with MFM hard drives, ancient motherboards, ISA video cards (when AGP had long since come out) and stuff that was generally worthless.
It was out of the way enough that you had to get down on your knees to get to it. It was also nearly 100% effective at identifying the "bug people".
It was incredible... over months and years we found that it was simply never wrong.
If you were caught kneeling in front of that box, you were immediately put on my "ignore" list. I'd be nice, but wouldn't give anything but a monosyllabic response from anyone.
On a side note, that $1 box came in real handy selling OEM copies of Windows legally. See, the contract requires that it be sold with a hard drive or motherboard. No mention of new/used, nor was there any requirement for a warrantee. So, we sold lots of copies of Windows with a used motherboard for $1....
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
The main point of any discussion is that it's your money. If you don't like their practices, vote with your money and go somewhere else.
That said, something similar was posted on Fark a couple of hours ago, so I've already read it (given, at work.) Looks like it was a different article on the same topic.
From what I can tell, they're pissed off at people buying items, getting the rebates, then returning the items, and more. Basically, they're mad that people are turning a profit on stuff bought from a Best Buy store.
I've heard complaints and gripes about Best Buy all over. However, you get horror stories from every store, regardless of big name or how crappy it is.
Perhaps I'm biased, but I've never had a bad experience at a Best Buy. The one near where I live has gotten good recommendations from people, while the one near my college tries to skate around the extended warenties at all costs, among other things. But that's what I've heard from others, never experienced myself.
I worked at a Best Buy (the one near my home) for about three months (occasional/seasonal, in Computers.) I felt I was lucky in the fact the people I worked with actually knew a good amount about Computers, whereas other places have had general sales people. The atmosphere I worked in was nice one, everyone was helpful, and I can't remember having a bad day (not even Black Friday, but I was just a gopher then.)
Was I told to push the replacement plans/extended warrantees as often as possible? Try and get people to buy accessories? Try and sell services with computers? Yes on all accounts. But you know what, it's a business, they turn a profit with that, and they need the profit to counter the low profit they make off, say, video game consoles.
If you have that much of a beef with Best Buy, stop whining and just got shop NewEgg. I'll be browsing around Best Buy, using the sales and rebates as I like, and still getting a good experience. If I ever get a bad experience from a Best Buy, I'll just stop going to that one, but not the entire chain.
After writing my previous response, I realize that the Simpsons sum it up nicely:
... [taps once more]
Back at Moe's Tavern, Moe begins to put the crayon in Homer's nose.
Moe: All right, tell me when I hit the sweet spot.
Homer: Deeper, you pusillanimous pilsner pusher!
Moe: All right, all right. [with a small hammer and chisel,
taps the crayon further up Homer's nose]
Homer: De-fense! [woof-woof] De-fense! [woof-woof]
Moe: Eh, that's pretty dumb. But, uh
Homer: Extended warranty? How can I lose?
Moe: Perfect.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
"They buy products, apply for rebates, return the purchases, then buy them back at returned-merchandise discounts."
Go ahead. Try this. Apply for the rebate (by submitting the UPC symbol) and then return the product. You can't.
Crap detector going off big time.
I am a suburban mother stuck in a high income man's body that's an early adopter. What does that make me? It's so confusing...
Have to go drop off the kids on my way to my Wall Street job in my brand new hovercar.
Later.
What Best Buy and other corporations haven't figured out is that we, the buying public, don't have any sympathy for them. They've set the rules, and we will take them for everything we can get.
It would be different if it was a single owner. When I buy from a family-owned business down the street, I'm not going to cheat him; I will even pay more than the going rate, because I like the person and I like how the business is run. But when I buy from a corporation, the gloves are off. If they offer a half-price deal and forget to specify a limit -- fill the shopping cart! About 5 years ago, I figured out that they are trying to TAKE EVERY PENNY THEY CAN GET FROM ME, so I don't feel the slightest pang of conscience when doing the same back.
I'm not talking about stealing. I'm only saying that, when dealing with Circuit City or Best Buy or Dell or WalMart or Safeway or ToysRUs or Home Depot or anyone else, the megastores have lost all pretense of actually caring about their customers. It isn't even slightly dishonest to gouge them if they let you do it -- because they're gouging you with every means at their disposal. Try it -- you'll find you enjoy the challenge of sticking it to them!
(And yes, I'm sure I'm the devil incarnate for some stores I shop in.)
I knew this would make them come out of the woodwork.....that certain demographic of people who somehow think that the only fair price, is the
There's more to shopping then just price folks, and that attitude is exactly what led us to the situation we find outselves into today. There used to be a large number, of helpfull, friendly, local audio / tv / computer stores....but over time people passed them up to go to a larger box store...then an even larger box store and now these.
What motivation does a business have to provide good service when they know their "clients" would abandon them in a heartbeat just to save a few pennies on the dollar? Then..
Hmm...hadn't meant to turn this into a rant...but I guess it just kinda headed that way.
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
What they're hoping for is that you'll buy the item at the in-store price, then not bother to go thru all the yadda-yadda that you have to go thru and wait six to eight weeks to get the rebate. A rebate is a way that a retailer can make an item look as though it costs less than it actually does; they don't actually want to sell you the item at the lower price. If they did, they would, as you say, simply mark the price down.
Why have such a pledge if you don't intend to honor it? Because it allows you to rig the game so that you, in effect, collude with your competitors and all the players on the selling side can make more money!
It's all economics. Game theory, to be precise.
In a game where price is the only determining factor between two goods, and you have at least one competitor, you are forced to sell your good at rock-bottom prices, or they'll go to another store. Thus, the Nash equilibrium of this game is that you all have to sell the item for no profit (assuming you all get it for the same price--otherwise, you just undercut the next lowest bid by one cent or the least you can & steal all their customers).
Now then, when you introduce this pledge, it turns out that all the people selling the product can, in effect, collude and sell it for a higher price! Sadly, I forget all the details of how it works out in recalculating the Nash equilibrium, and my game theory textbook is probably propping something up just now (sorry, I took that class quite a while ago now--the textbook on it is nowhere to be found). However, I can tell you for sure that this was one of their examples on how "hyper-competetive" seeming strategies can actually be anti-competetive in effect.
The good news? They're not the only ones who can change the rules, as we saw from some of the ways people got back at them. In fact, the article mentioned one person doing this to buy things at a loss from them just because they wanted to hurt the store (this in the Wall Street Journal article I saw in a comment here).
It's funny, too, because one of the other quotes was from them worrying that culturally, they might be seen as consumer-hostile. A worry it would seem is well-founded, given how many people seem to hate that store.
I remember my first experience with being asked to get an extended warranty at (now defunct) American Appliance. I went in before college to get a 13" Sharp TV/VCR combo for the very aggreeable price of $139. I remember this very clearly...
As I carry the little guy to the register:
Salesman: "Is that all for you today?"
Me: "Yup."
Salesman: "Have you heard about our extended warranty which will cover product failure?"
Me: "Nope."
Salesman: "Well, when the product breaks, this warranty-"
Me: "Oh nevermind, I don't want this TV if it's going to break on me suddenly. I thought I could buy a quality product here."
Salesman: "Oh no, it's quality product. See, if the remote breaks, that's $79 right there! We'd replace it if you lose it. The warranty is only $50 so it pays for itself."
Me: "Can I get the TV without the remote just for $60?"
Salesman: "Uhh, no."
Me: "But I can get a generic remote for $9 from one of your competitors, and that's still cheaper..."
Salesman: "Ok sir that will be $139."
At some point during one of my many moves the TV stopped working*. Technically, it would continually go up in channels regardless of what you instructed it to do. Having no extended warranty at this point, I wasn't bummed. (American Appliance had since gone out of business and was being liquidated. Some company was selling their computer inventory at a 10% discount from 1993 prices. We're talking $199 *Quad-Speed* CD-ROM drives on "sale"). I took a $3.99 toe nail clipper and wedged it into the TV through one of the front buttons. Being impervious to death by electrocution, I suffered no harm and automagically repaired my TV. The next time I moved, when I took the toe nail clipper out, it no longer switched channels by itself anymore. I was disappointed, as I had been looking forward to my monthly toe clipping time, by which I could channel surf without needing to do anything.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
It has always been one rule for the consumers and another for business.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I hate mail in rebates. It's just a way of giving the government more money. Let's say you buy something for $100 on "sale" for $75. Only trick is you've got to pay tax on $100 in order to buy it, for $75!?!
In Canada that's 15%. So instead of paying $11.25 in tax you are paying $15. So your sale prices of $75 is actually $78.75. I know it's only three dollars, but dammit I'm cheap!^H^H^H^H^H^it's the principle of the thing!
Not only that, in order to get the mail in rebate it costs you postage. There's another 50 cents. And my time. (That's gotta be worth at least $20 per hour flippen burgers, so it takes me 5 minutes to fill in the stuff. 5 minutes to find a stamp. 15 minutes to walk down to the mailbox, 15 minutes to walk back.)
Hey this rebate is COSTING ME MONEY!
Hey Best Buy/Future Shop! Why not just put it on sale if you want to put it on sale. Why give your consumers more problems. One of the reasons I perfer to buy from the small independants. (No I'm not a devil customer. I'm not a customer at all!)
Two things.
First: anyone who's read Malcolm Gladwell's _Tipping Point_ is familiar with what he refers to as human networking hubs. These people process and relay information to their friends and family and are often responsible for purchasing decisions not only for themselves but upwards 10-20 families.
I would venture to say that most of the people BB is actively trying to alienate are those type of people. Yes, those people will go to great lengths to manipulate rebates and pricematches and loss leaders to walk away from the store having spent as little money as possible. But these human deal hubs don't just pass on information about what BB would consider rip-off deals, they also pass on information about other products in the store.
I think what BB is really experiencing is what Wired covered in their last issue: brands mean piss in the information age. How much are these human hubs, these financial "tipping points" financially responsible for is hard to gauge, but I imagine BB will soon find out.
Secondly, what BB is experiencing is merely karmic retribution. What are rebates but a similar way to manipulate customers into paying more? It is boldly advertising one price and requiring a substantial amount of work to obtain. That rebates have pretty much maintained legality is beyond me. BB could stop offering rebates. They could stop pricematching. They could simply offer a product at a fair price and that be the end of it. But they don't, because these systems inherently take advantage of the consumer. Wal-mart, for all their sprawling corporate evil, are rarely on the deals sites because the price they advertise is the price you pay. So what's up BB's ass?
Well, the internet has empowered individuals to turn the tables on corporations like BB and take advantage of these manipulative systems on wide enough scale that it obviously causes BB execs to lose sleep and break par on the golf course.
I am a FWer, and I have walked out of BB with some pretty good deals. But I've used BB to buy dvds on opening day, I've bought several hundreds of dollars worth of electronics without finnegaling, and I've refrerred people to BB many times over. In fact, I planned to go buy Halo 2 from them tomorrow. Now, I'll be going somewhere else. I'll be visiting BB again, but when I do it will cost BB, and it will be paid for with untrackable cash.
Way to go, Brad. Enjoy your golf.
I decided to post on this thread instead of moderate...I actually had a good experience with buying a computer from Best Buy
Since Laptops can be hit and miss with Linux compatibility, I actually got the manager at Best Buy to write me a guarantee that if Linux would not install correctly (and simply) I could return the laptop with no restocking fee.
What's funny though...is the tech people there didn't think Linux would work on the laptop because all of the drivers on it were for Windows. I had to remind them that the drivers would be erased and replaced with Linux drivers. It also killed their plan to sell me anti-virus software, MS Office, and other extras.
Mod points are pointless when you browse at -1.
In 1981 the company I was working for sent me to Boca Raton, Florida, to the big new IBM facility there that was manufacturing the as-yet-unannounced IBM Personal Computer. I was sent for both sales and service training, and it was a very interesting two weeks. One of the most important points that was driven home to me was, "Never prequalify your customer". In other words, the guy in the T-shirt and worn jeans may very well pull out his Visa and buy a computer on the spot, and the guy in the Armani suit may be a cheap bastard who wants you to spoon-feed him product info while he goes and buys it somewhere else. This from IBM, no less. Best Buy appears to be implementing a customer profiling system that goes directly against that premise. I guess that if you want service at a Best Buy nowadays you'd best put on a suit and tie and look like you have money.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You hit the nail right on the head. I picked up on this a while ago and love it!
This is how it started for me:
Safeway ran a sale a while back on whole chickens. Now I have a big family, so this is worth doing because you get a lot from one chicken. Went to the store and literally filled a shopping cart full of them. Nothing posted anywhere said anything about limits. When I got to the checkout they said that was too many. (They had a ton of them and only a 2 day sale.) They had lots of new items in the store that day, along with the usual food demo people showing off expensive items.
Clearly they were thinking most people would grab a couple chickens along with a number of other items to balance out the sale. Clearly they were wrong. I've got a big freezer. BTW, if you have a family, this is probably one of the very best investments you can make. The food savings made possible pay for it in just a few months. By the time you don't need it anymore, you will literally save thousands.
I asked how many was too many and the checker actually said they flag high percentage savings. Anything over about 30 percent savings needed to have an override by the manager, unless the dollar amount of the total purchase was less than about $100.00 or so, in which case they could "just let it go through". As if that's a favor to me! Anyway, I found out they also flag specific savings, meat being one of them. My cart was only meat and the chicken was about 60 percent discounted. Total red flag, no doubt about it.
Manager came over and said their policy was about 10 items at that discount rate. (After looking at what I wanted to purchase) I needed to go put the rest back and only buy 10. When I asked them to show me where they had that published, they said it was in their corporate operations manual and that it was not for consumers (read cash cows) to see. When I asked why they just did not specify the limit, he told me that depends on inventory at hand. WTF?!? Obviously they had plenty of chicken, so something else was at work here; namely, I was getting too good of a deal. Time to just get this thing done and go home.
I told them I was going to have to make lots of small purchases then. They got petty and said I would have to go through the line for each bundle of chicken. Busy day, pretty long lines, with mine getting pretty long in particular. The lady behind was pissed! (She did have two chickens that I could see along with a couple hundered dollars in non-sale items.)
Lined up the kids, handed them some cash, and began to pile all the chicken into little 10 unit piles. Might as well play ball right?
The look on the managers face was priceless! He actually said it was unfair to put him in a position to have to tell the kids no! I said simply, "then I suggest you don't."
After about 10 seconds, I heard a murmured "fuck it", followed by a hasty conversation with the checker. Soon we were on our way with the chicken, all in one transaction. I have a receipt with a 60 percent savings totalling over $100.00. The computer would not allow his override, another person had to come over and use theirs.
That happened right after they started their club card thing. Since then, I have been through the same deal many times with no regrets. We actually have two cards. Whenever I use that card, it gets flagged all the time, but the other one doesn't. I just know there it's stamped "non-preferred customer". The name on that card does not get any offers in the mail either.
Another pet peeve: Stores that fuck with the per-unit pricing to make more expensive items harder to distinguish. They will use some odd unit to make the mental math difficult combined with "sales" on the expensive ones that actually still cost more!
Sorry for the rant, but I'm with you all the way. All things being equal, they are quite happy to take your money. Seems fair enough to grab some of theirs as well.
Blogging because I can...
I have a friend who got screwed by a company that refused to replace a defective high power transmitting tube. From that day, whenever he was EVER buying a tube, he would call the Sales Manager up from that company to tell him how their shit attitude had cost them yet ANOTHER sale! A bunch of us signed on with him too. After a year or two, (and several hundred tube sales lost; these suckers cost thousands by the way) the Manager said: ENOUGH! What can I do to re-gain your trust? That company now provides the best service of all tube companies. The moral of the story? Don't just hit 'em in the pocketbook - TELL THEM you are!
1. Remove groceries from cart.
2. Lift cart over your head, wheels up & walk across painted line/transmitting antenna.
3. Place groceries back into cart.
Leave out the "ratty old clothes" next time and see what effect that has.
Free Hans!
shopping carts cost $100???
Have a look at your neighborhood shopping cart. Those chrome plated wire mesh suckers with a weld at every joint. Take the time to sit in one and roll around. I don't know what they are rated for but they can support the weight of two adults easily (don't ask). These suckers are not cheap, think $500/$1000 a unit easily. They don't look like much but alot of work goes into that shopping cart.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
It's not that they wheel the carts off to take their shopping home. Its that they then don't TAKE THEM BACK.
The area where I work had this problem; the scrote housing down the road had shopping trolleys lying about on street corners where they'd simply been discarded, having finished being useful. They'd get wrecked, dragging into the canal, littered about on the industrial estate...
You have to understand just what animals some people are, and how little concern they have for anyone or anything outside what they want to understand why supermarkets do this. They have absolutely no regard for the expensive involved for the shop or the inconvenience for customers for whom there are no longer enough trolleys.
They won't even push them back the next time they go, because it's uphill and now they let go of the trolley, it's not even "not their problem" anymore. It's not even in their environment.
So Asda bought a whole new fleet of shopping trolleys along with the wheel locks and little red "don't cross" lines.
Net effect is that at least most of the trolleys are abandoned at the red lines now... although we STILL find them in the industrial estate, lying wrecked where they were abandoned because they'd made it down the hill that far before getting bored of dragging something with one locked wheel...
The trolleys are, actually, quite expensive. The stores cannot afford to go around giving away a "disposable" 200 pound trolley with every tenth purchase of a bag of potatoes.
Think of it as a tragedy of the commons thing - some people are such mindless thugs, they can't be trusted to borrow and return a shopping trolley and they've wrecked it for everyone else.
Have you ever been to an Aldi's? It's an ultra cheap grocery store chain in the US. They don't have baggers and often only have 1 or 2 cashiers on duty. Staff is a minimal. Here's the kicker: I've never seen a discarded Aldi's shopping cart. They are always nicely and neatly put away. Even with no baggers to round them up.
ALWAYS!
Do you know why? In order to get a cart you have to put a quarter into the lock to get them out. When you are done, you can get that quarter back if you put your cart back. Only if you put the cart back.
What does that tell you about humans and their values?
Star Pirates
I must be one of those 20% of devils. Best Buy pissed me off so bad when I was buying my mom a $500 e-Machine computer that I go out of my way NOT to shop there. It took me 45 minutes to get out of there. All I wanted to do was take a computer off the shelf and check out, but it was much more complicated than that. The saleslady kept pushing the extended warranty, software packages, and various services. They wanted to open up the computer in their service department to check out it because "e-Machines have a high rate of returns." Well if they're so bad why are you selling them? She had no answer for that.
Then more pleas for the extended warranty, software, and other crap. When I refused the extended warranty the second time I actually had to talk to her supervisor to let him hear for himself that I really didn't want it. The saleslady stressed that they aren't on commission, but I found later their managers ARE.
Finally (with escort of the sales lady) I was allowed to check out. If it wasn't for the price and the fact my mom needed the computer, I would have walked off. The good news is the cheapo e-Machine is still happily running years later.