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Westerners Migrating to India for Jobs
shonagon53 writes "The BBC reports that quite a few young European tourists stick around in India to work for eSolutions companies who contract outsourced work from European companies. The salaries are mediocre, but you get free housing, great food, snacks à volonté and a free taxi ride to work each morning.
Is this the first wave of the much anticipated reverse-migration which will be a hallmark of the 21st century?"
So how does that work as far as work visas are concerned? Does the company also arrange for the correct visas or are the "tourists" technically working there illegally?
...so now I've got to listen to a European stoner when I call my bank :-(
I've worked in the U.S., Japan, and now Germany. In a few years time, I hope to move to India to work for a little while, then head back to Australia to do what I can to build up the national market for technology
Globalization is a reality, folks. You can either:
a) pretend it doesn't exist,
b) complain about it, or
c) live in it, as a globalist individual
I chose c). If big-corp's are gonna go multi-national, so am I. The days of stick-dwelling are over
Move or die.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Recently heard in downtown Mumbai: "Those damn foreigners are taking our jobs!!"
Q. What is Calvin's monster snowman called? A. The Torment Of Existence Weighed Against The Horror of Non Being
You are so wrong. I work as a manager in a "cheaper" country of "unskilled monkeys" who are actually well trained, speak several languages fluently, work normal hours, develop IP instead of just taking outsourced work, win international awards for interesting products (two so far) and in no way do the "button pushing" you refer to. Frankly anyone who thinks like you is in for a big big shock in the next ten years.
Where do i sign up? Last summer I was looking for a consulting position to liason between India and the States. No luck, and I'm sure the biggest part of my flopped idea was not reaching the right people in India - I went through Monster.com's listings for positions in India. Any suggestions on how I would reach organizations looking for ppl who would be willing to travel between the two countries?
The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
Maybe they'll drive salaries up over there and they'll be forced to outsource the jobs to the U.S.
It just seems like a bunch of 20-something "kids" who are backpacking around the world and trying to stay solvent. It hardly seems any different from the fact that every youth hostel I stayed in during a brief trip to Australia was also staffed (nearly 100%) with non-Australians. Oddly, there was fairly little outcry about the loss of hostel-desk-clerk-jobs to those damn Europeans.
I doubt they're making a huge dent in the overall world of outsourcing. Here in Canada more than 10% of the company where I work is people from outside of Canada, but that's not considered odd. Why would it be considered odd for there to be foreigners working in India? There's probably a lot going for those Indian cities. And has anyone ever eaten out in Switzerland? The food alone would motivate me to leave the country. I like cheese, sure, but come on - a whole meal consisting of cheese? No wonder all those Swiss kids are going to India.
True story:
A friend of mine, a Rwandese educated at Harvard, worked for a US legal firm. One day he was asked to go on a long-term mission to Nigeria for an oil firm client. He balked, quoting Nigeria's reputation for danger. He was offered a nice bonus, travel costs, and so he went. When I visited him in Lagos, he had installed himself in a nice house, with a cook, driver, security guards. He played golf twice a week, spent the weekends at the beach, and too many evenings at the clubs in Victoria Island.
Every few months he would return to head office, and make a report. His report would inevitably end with remarks about the insecurity in Lagos, the need for constant armed protection, the power cuts and the lack of facilities. Since his work was bringing in lots of money, his firm inevitably gave him a pay rise and extended his mission.
Expatriates tend to suffer from diseases of luxury. They don't pay taxes, their savings go 10-100 times further, they get privileged positions, and if good, they are valued for their expertise and cultural baggage.
The only problem: they tend to die divorced and alcoholic. Decadence is too cheap in some places!
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
We've been trying to outsource lawyers for ages. No one else wants 'em.
I've sugested on
I for one could go for a summerhouse in Kashmir.
As the article points out, raw salary isn't everything.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
When I read Symbiosis on a stop-by at Kuala Lumpur Airport, see http://www.symbiosisonline.com/, I got the feeling that the Technology Park in KL is trying to attract Western Engineers by providing them with a luxurious working environment in regard to comfort, personal care and resources, even if the payment probably is mediocre. :-)
See also http://www.tpm.com.my/ .
If I had to choose between a stressful job/high payment and an offer from there, I could still easily be tempted to go to Malaysia
If each country is going to be good at something in the global market, and everyone is carving out their niche, I say let India be the land of cubicles and tech support. More power to em.
I also would like to make a call now to solidify our position as the world leader in strippers.
Government Subsidize Gold Poles NOW!
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Radiologists are getting outsourced because x-ray machines produce shitty images and there simply aren't enough radiologists being trained to meet demands in the US & Canada.
Invent a better x-ray machine and you could put radiologists out of business faster than you could break a leg.
Notice how dedicated radio operators have gone the way of the dodo? Telephone operators? People who add up bills manually? Some day radiologists will be in the same bucket as buggy whip manufacturers.
Most european countries have substantial socialist components to thier governments. This means that when these people quit working they'll have
-Free healthcare
-It won't be nearly as expensive (in most cases) for their children to attend university in europe
-In some countries, they'll be given a pension to live off of when they retire
In the U.S., things are a bit different. You have a retirement fund that you need to plug money into. You need to save for your kid's college education. You need health insurance. Now, you might be able to live quite well in India if work there, but the salary that you get is so small compared to what you recieve if you worked in the U.S., that you really won't be able to provide money for any of these things. I dunno, it might be a good experience for a couple of years, but as an American, I wouldn't plan on sticking around if I did it.
Aussies commonly take a year or two travel vacations during their lives. The popular ages are just after school and when the kids are gone.
Amerians are so hard up about working and consuming they miss the important things in life.
Great..... And you could have done that back in the 80's, too. I'm talking the 1880's.
What you're talking about is NOT "Globalization". You've only been hitting the 1st world countries.
Globalization is about exploiting the 3rd world countries. Go and live there for a few years and see if your attitude doesn't change.
The article talks about very few foreigners coming to India and taking up jobs in call centres. Just one or two isolated incidents really dont show that people from europe are actually migrating to India. Also call centres dont offer too high pays as compared to the Indian IT companies and the work experience gained is also of little value. Also one doesnt know for how much time call centres will be around in India, so they are really thought of as temporary sources of income which mainly students use as a source of pocket money.
Even if 'the company' is supposed to take care of your visa, it pays to follow up on your own. This advice courtesy the guy who left Ecuador at the unpleasant end of a gun because the company he was working for FUCKED UP!.
In addition to Ecuador, I've worked in China, Japan, Phillipines, Fiji, Tonga, Hong Kong, and Singapore. I hired on outside the USA. Most friends who are working or have worked expat. have hired on outside their home country.
Want an overseas job, take a vacation, get to know the place, visit the company you want to work for. Hang out in the right bars.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
The large corporation I work for is currently outsourcing all UK development to India.
One interesting facet is that people whose roles are being relocated to India have the option of joining the Indian company involved. Their role would still be in India, and so they would be based there, but they would keep their UK salary.
We're all currently discussing:
- how good your standard of living would be in India on a UK salary
- how long it would take for the Indian company to make you redundant (currently guess: 4 hours)
- what the Indian employment laws are like
All good fun,
~Cederic
This is a "work visa". Not citizenship.
The kids going over there are working for a salary and, eventually, will be sent back to their home country. It's easy to explain with two examples.
#1. Euro-kid goes to India and works for 2 years. He makes a "mediocre" wage (1/10th what he'd make back home). He banks it all and lives on cheap rice, curry and lentils. After 2 years he goes home with $X (or whatever his currency is). $X is 1/10 that he'd make in 2 years at home under the same conditions.
#2. Indian guy goes to the US and works for 2 years. He makes a "mediocre" wage for a US job (still 10x what he'd make back home). Banks it all, eats rice, curry and lentils. After 2 years he, goes home. He now has 10x the money he'd have after 2 years of working in India.
The effective difference is 100x between the two.
Work visas are only good for making money in a wealthy country and then going home to a poor country. They suck for working in a poor country and then going home to a wealthy country.
Of course.. You can eat snacks.. Stock options are only useful for after-snacking :-)
...you obviously haven't been watching the USD lately.
Shoot Pixels, Not People!
...beyond work if you live a life as a "nomad"? That's crap! It's the 21st century man! Communications technology makes physical location nearly irrelevant. Many of my family members and friends travel extensively and have made good friends with fellow nomads all over the world. IM and email are good for keeping in touch--you should try using them sometimes. My girlfriend's brother met an Aussie nomad in Vancouver, now ehty arte engaged to be married in Australia. They both have friends and family on three continents. All my more nomadic friends manage to stay in touch and some even meet up several times a year--sometimes in locations that are neither person's "home"!
A nomadic lifestyle isn't for everyone, so if you prefer to put down roots somewhere there is always telecommuting--that is essentially what workers in India, Ireland, Canada and other outsourcing hotspots are doing for their parent companies anyways.
The Aussie is right--this is an era of globalisation and you'd better get used to it. It is sad that the US, a country historically known for its pioneering spirit and innovation, has become more whiny, inward-looking and reactionary than the average country with respect to immigration. The US got where it is today beause of immigration from all over the world. It seems selfish in this day and age to expect the rest of the world shouldn't be able to benefit from immigration as well.
Hey, if Darwin's theory works in nature expect it in the economy as well. The US will adapt or die. India and other developing nations have been closer to death and have simply started adapting faster. In the end it'll all even out--unless of course politics unduly interferes and fouls up the balance of things.
God help you if you should get sick while over
there working in India -- most Western medical
plans will not cover your overseas "deployment".
(Well, you could rely on the herbal remedies
available locally -- just put enough money aside
to have your body shipped home to Mum and Pop.)
Actually, India is becoming somewhat of a medical tourist destination, you probably won't have to worry about medical bills and health insurance so much if you "self-insure" -- the health insurance companies don't seem to have their claws in the system over there like they do in the US so medicine is still reasonably affordable, especially for someone with a decent (indian) job.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
do the chicks there put out for white, geeky american guys? if so, then i'd consider a career in India.
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
I would have to say that Americans have a stronger sense of family than other countries
Sorry, but unless you can back this up I'm gonna have to disagree, having lived in America and Europe. Thanksgiving is actually proof of a weak sense of family - it says they need a national holiday as excuse before they can do something together. For the rest of year, people pretty live individually, most noticable in the fact that many American families don't even eat dinner together.
I have quite the involved family here in Belgium. If I'm at home, I'll eat with my family (which is every weekend). I'll stop by at one uncle's for breakfast, then spend the evening at another's place. We have two family reunions every year, and my grandparents regularly have big dinner parties, especially if it's their birthday.
If I don't see a family member for two weeks, that's already a long time...
I got nothing against the Americans - hell, I'm moving back there next year - but they do not have a strong sense of family at all, due to the individualistic culture.
Jw
Lets demonstrate with some figures.
Indian goes to America, and earns $50,000 per year for two years. He spends $25,000 per year on his living costs, so when he returns to India, he has $50,000 in the bank.
American goes to India, and earns $5,000 per year for two years. He spends $2,500 per year on his living costs, so when he returns to America, he has $5,000 in the bank.
Now lets look at the Indian. He is now living in India with $50,000, which the equivalent of ten years salary in the bank. That is a pretty reasonable sum of money. You are well on your way to being able to retire on that.
What about the American. He is now living in America with $5,000 in the bank. That is the equivalent of about 5 weeks salary. Enough to cover fluctuations in his outgoings and prevent him from going overdrawn. Probably better than a lot of people, but nothing spectacular.
How about:
American goes to India and earns $5000 per year for two years. That makes him rich beyond the wildest dreams of his Indian peers. He lives like a king for $4,000 per year living costs, pisses another $500 per year up the wall on who knows what, and has $1000 left for his ticket home. He arrives home with the same bank balance as when he left, a big grin, and a hell of a lot of good stories...