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Siemens Develops 1 gbit/sec Wireless Link

jonknee writes "Siemens has developed mobile wireless technology with transfer rates as high as 1 gigbit per second. This blows the doors off of '3G' technology, or EV-DO (the high-speed data technology used by Verizon Wireless and soon by Sprint PCS). Not all the specs are out yet (more info is expected early next year), but it uses three transmitting and four receiving antennas. With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015."

191 comments

  1. Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by CdBee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How can it be possible to get a cellular data service that's faster than a WiFi LAN?

    Also, if this is for real, surely this has implications for the many planned city-wide wifi grids (Wi-Max, etc) and other mobile broadband solutions, as it could make them obsolete very quickly.

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    1. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Multiple antennas.. sounds like a variant of BLAST:

      http://www1.bell-labs.com/project/blast/

      They claim >20bps/Hz by making lemonade out of multipath's lemon.

    2. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by ndevice · · Score: 1

      If this is a free space system, they might have to compensate for the higher speeds with stronger signals (or live with shorter distances), shannon's law and all - of course we haven't approached those limits yet (I think), so it might be doable.

    3. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by ocelotbob · · Score: 2, Informative

      RTA. They're multiplexing; using several different channels to allow many different streams of data simultaneously. Yeah, it makes it a bit more complicated and error prone in the protocol specs, but it means a faster signal. And yes, to some degree, it will make other mobile broadband solutions obsolete, that is until they spec out the next generation of wireless to use similar methods. Remember, this is something that's going to be rolled out 10 years from now. I'm sure wifi is going to get a lot better in that time.

      --

      Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses

    4. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Informative

      shannon's law and all - of course we haven't approached those limits yet (I think)

      the DVB-S2 standard (with devices due in 2005) comes within 1.0-0.7db of shannons law. Also, another company has come within 0.1db (or 0.01db, i forget) and might be even closer now at this point to shannons law. This is the real thing and is being adopted in broadcast networks for transmission to stations. PDF here on the new tech. On page 11 they list the 1.0-0.7db figure. Not sure how large it is Unfortunately in order to use a full transponder at full capacity and speed you would need a few of these since it appears they do not have the processing power to do more than ~50 megabits/sec. A full transponder under one of these would run around 180 Megabits/sec (36Mhz*5bits/mhz) .

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    5. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by matterix · · Score: 1

      Time for WEP, or can take big chunk out of it? Sure, the hotpoints would become obsolete!

    6. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by ZakMcCracken · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bitrate is just one of the features of networks.

      You can't compare two technologies solely on bitrate, you are forgetting power, range, spectrum, equipment size and equipment cost as factors in your comparison.

      Cellular technology *can* be made to operate faster than your WLAN. In fact, some WiMAX equipment should operate faser than many WLANs, and it's not mobile yet but it's cellular. But then again, the client-side equipment will have to work first with a roof-mounted antenna and the base station should cost about 100x the price of your average WiFi access point. Engineering hardly works miracles, just good trade-offs.

    7. Re:Faster than 3G .. heck, its faster than 802.11G by Long-EZ · · Score: 2, Informative

      they might have to compensate for the higher speeds with stronger signals

      It uses 2.4 GHz at 1 KW.

      Good news: The transmitting hardware is inexpensive because it's already used in microwave ovens.

      Bad news: Battery life is gonna really suck.

      --
      >> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
  2. So, in 2015, ... by kclittle · · Score: 5, Funny
    my daughter can call and ask for money even faster that she can today? With full-screen video and 5.1 surround sound? Oh, thanks bunches...

    --
    Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
    1. Re:So, in 2015, ... by metlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Funny, I just read on Boing Boing that an Indian movie will be the first full-length feature film to premiere on a wireless cellular network.

      Details here.

      And which is why, "predictions" like FooBar will happen by 2015 are quite amusing - you really cannot know. For all you know, it may happen within the next couple of years. If there is one thing we should know as geeks, it is that technology can never ever be predicted.

    2. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will it be shown on all 3 cellphones in India at the same time?

    3. Re:So, in 2015, ... by metlin · · Score: 1

      You're a troll, but I'll answer you anyway.

      At last count, there were more than 50 million cellphones in India, and are growing at 2 million a month.
      (From this source)

    4. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      Heinlein (the sf author) had a fairly good rep for predicting things, when asked what his secret was he said (paraphrasing here) ask the experts in on the subject how long it would be before we have technology to do x and divide the interval in half.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    5. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1, Funny

      But aren't those Indian movies like eight hours long? Whose phone has enough battery power to last that long?

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    6. Re:So, in 2015, ... by NardofDoom · · Score: 1

      It's called "No." When used in combination with "Get a job" it can be suprisingly effective.

      --
      You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
    7. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a techie, when asked to predict delivery dates, I make an educated guess, then multiply it by 2 (at least)...

    8. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In India, people without shoes have cell phones. Don't ask me how.

    9. Re:So, in 2015, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You watch indian pr0n?

    10. Re:So, in 2015, ... by UranusReallyHertz · · Score: 1

      Well, thats a rather sad rate of penetration there. 50000000/1,065,070,607= 4.7 percent. So he may have been exagerating but he wasn't really trolling.

      --
      Smoking is an expensive, slow, and unreliable method of suicide.
  3. With 4 receive antennas and 3 transmit antennas.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    it will take a big pocket to fit in :)

  4. A little glims in the future by Isak+Ben · · Score: 0

    5 years from now.....

    Spammers will be on the run from the law with a gsm in their pocket using it's 1Gbp/s connection to spam the hell out of us....? ;)

    Apply that to all the lamer crackers and related lameness out there.

    --
    -- Isak Ben.
  5. only 100 MHz bandwidth by ndevice · · Score: 2, Informative

    according to the article, the bandwidth is only 100 MHz for the experimental setup that they have running.

    1Gb/s is supposed to be what it's capable of in the future - or at least that's how I read it

    1. Re:only 100 MHz bandwidth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      frequency bandwidth of old Russian phone lines is believed to be 3 kHz
      33.6 modems work just fine and deliver 30 kbps just fine.
      it's normal that data bandwidth (bps)=frequency bandwidth*10

  6. for what by Outsider_99 · · Score: 1

    What would we need it for? Im sure people will think of things to use it for. But I cant think of anything to use it for.

    1. Re:for what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      god you're dumb

    2. Re:for what by lakiolen · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well there's always pr0n. But that's the answer to any question about what to do with greater speed and/or higher bandwidth.

      --


      What are you expecting to find here?
    3. Re:for what by surelars · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, sure. No one will ever need more than 640 kB of RAM and all that.

    4. Re:for what by Oxygen99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rapid on demand location based services springs to mind, such as detailed maps and directions. As does accessing music files remotely from your own PC. That'd be nice. Maybe more expansive travel information such as realtime traffic or flight data. I'm sure these would become more and more useful given a large hike in bandwidth.

      As somone more intelligent than myself said, "if you build it, they will come.".

      --
      I had a dream, bright and carefree, but now there's doubt and gravity
    5. Re:for what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I imagine the new "smart army" could think of a few uses for that kind of data rate. Things that were previously not possible with games spring to mind. Static and dynamic image/video/audio transfer are pretty obvious. Aside from new applications made possible, I imagine many current wireless application would benefit simply from the increased data rate.

    6. Re:for what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "if you build it, they will come."
      Bollock. They will come only if you have what they want. You could build polished turds and no one would buy them.
    7. Re:for what by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Spamming, virus and worm spread, spyware, DoS attacks ... the possibilities are endless!
      SCNR

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    8. Re:for what by DigitumDei · · Score: 1

      I am sure that by then they will be aiming for cell phones to all be video phones. While you may not see the need, I'm sure by then some people will be wondering how we ever survived using phones without seeing the persons face.

      As phones become less phones and more personal organisers and communicator (complete with a host of other extras), the more people are going to need that bandwidth.

      Even if no single application on these devices needs that much bandwidth, the combination of them all may. That, and if you provide the bandwidth, someone will find a way to use it all.

    9. Re:for what by DigitumDei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just a simple thought came to mind moments after I hit submit.

      It always bothers me that I essentially have to go through the extra step of transfering any pictures I take on my phone, to my PC.

      Imagine if in 2015, I can take high resolution photos (and even video) from a hand held device (we really should stop calling them phones ;) ) that is saved directly to my PC at home. The phone can have a small (by tomorrows standards at least) amount of local storage, but the vast majority of storage used would be on the terabytes or petabytes of storage we'll have at home then.

    10. Re:for what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With this link, people can always design websites more bloated to make them waste more bandwidth faster.

    11. Re:for what by secretsquirel · · Score: 0
      "god you're dumb"

      If your gonna tell god he's dumb you should at least do it in a relevant post. He was asking why anyone would want alot of bandwidth, and you just gotta burst out with your herecies. Also, if your going to call anyone dumb you better have a good reason. One guy is to dumb to think of uses for bandwidth and you go and insult the allmighty, don't you think thats just a tad bit ignorant.

      The uses for bandwidth on a phone are pretty damn obvious though; looking at stock quotes!, porn, checking the weather, porn, checking movie times!. Attach a camera and send live high quality video streams (of porn mostly) directly to your pc for storage, and you could also use it to share particle colision data from CERN and process it during idle time!

    12. Re:for what by bloodredsun · · Score: 1

      I don't think that streaming music to remote locations (ie not your home) will ever be popular as the advances in datastorage densities will always make local mobile storage a better option.
      Static data like music and movies will be stored in an iPod-like device, and how detailed does a real-time service like traffic info have to be to require this sort of data-rate?
      I'm not decrying the advances made here, but rather questioning the commercial usages to which it can currently be put.

    13. Re:for what by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      You mean a sort of NFS over internet? (Ok, probably a more secure protocol will be used :-)) Well, that would make sense. But I guess only the geeks will have their file server running at home, the rest will rent their storage from online storage providers (probably most mobile devices will have a preselection for a certain storage space provider, just as mobile phones are usually bound to a certain phone service provider today).

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    14. Re:for what by miu · · Score: 1
      I'd think games would be a great use. I'll just pull some numbers out of my ass and say that in 10 years programmable 1 Gig carts for a handheld like the GBA are commercially viable - if you could add this kind of wireless into a handheld then you would essentially have a terminal with a fairly large local storage and unlimited size game, you'd have to worry about the in memory size and IO speed - but the game content itself could be upgraded or released in installments and synched to the current 'play field window' - every evening or when within range of the base unit (which has effectively unlimited storage). My only worry is that nintendo and other game companies may hesitate to place cart programmers and the like within the clutches of users who might use them to pirate content.

      You can already see some developments in this direction with link cables to hook handhelds together or to a base station, with wireless it could be made nearly invisible to users.

      --

      [Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
    15. Re:for what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maps and directions? Real-time traffic data? Sounds like you want the new Acura RL...

    16. Re:for what by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      My Treo 600 smartphone can email its pictures. The bundled camera app uses a pay-per-send Sprint service, but someone has already sent out their own custom app that just emails to any Internet email address, which is the app I use. The T600 can also HoySync to any PC (that has the HotSync server SW installed) over the phone's wireless Net connection (110Kbps). There are probably other transfer utils, like scp (there's a decent ssh client).

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    17. Re:for what by BlueJay465 · · Score: 1
      go even further, interactive games that happen simultaneous in real life and virtually. I believe that a previous story talked about how DoCoMo or such had location based games.

      Also just think that in 10 years 1080i cameras will probably be as dirt cheap as most DV cameras today. Wireless HD video would bring out new meaning to Live reporting. no need for the camera truck and crew, just 2 people. I can predict vigilante reporting to be on the rise as well.

  7. This report is entirely worthless without detail by Angostura · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Without the details, it strikes me that this nice bit of hype is entirely pointless.

    Great - I 1Gig link. And the power requirements are? And the suspectability to multipath problems in built up areas are? And the size of the antenna on the phone is how big? And the patent issues are what?

    Sorry to be such a grumpy old thing, but getting RF technology to work in the lab is one thing. Getting to work in messy, interference soaked urban environments without cooking the user's head is quite another.

  8. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most Americans I know pronounce it See-mens. So it sounds like a pluralization of semen or maybe sailors. Hilarious huh?

  9. Technology advancement by rasteri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015.

    By which time it won't seem that amazing at all.

    1. Re:Technology advancement by FHMyles · · Score: 1

      Too true, since 100mbit wireless will be available in a year or two with 802.11n, won't it? And 10gbit over copper ethernet is well on its way.

    2. Re:Technology advancement by Gopal.V · · Score: 4, Insightful
      >By which time it won't seem that amazing at all.

      To us , it'll still be amazing because we'll be past the 35-hump since when each invention is against the laws of nature .

      Below 16 , all inventions are taken for granted. After 16 to 35, every invention is the next big thing and by the time you're over 35 , it'll be a violation of your fundamental understanding of science.

      So kids born in 2000 see supersonic air travel as an ordinary means of travel , while my father feels there's something impossible about faster than sound travel (someday I'll say the same about Faster than light , hopefully) .

      People don't change - they are just replaced.

    3. Re:Technology advancement by metlin · · Score: 1

      > People don't change - they are just replaced.

      Thank you.

      That's such an immensely encouraging thing to say right in the middle of the week. :-p

    4. Re:Technology advancement by mbaciarello · · Score: 1

      On a totally unrelated note, the site in your sig is fantastic.

      However, they mispelled the most important quote: it's "videtur" not "viditur". That almost made my fundamental understanding of Latin crumble, and I'm not even 25...

    5. Re:Technology advancement by emseabrown · · Score: 1
      > People don't change - they are just replaced.

      Thank you.

      That's such an immensely encouraging thing to say right in the middle of the week. :-p

      Especially when reading /. at work...

    6. Re:Technology advancement by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Tell your body to stop replacing your cells on a daily basis then ;-) ... speaking of your blog reference though, I wonder how often we change atomically or sub-atomically ...

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    7. Re:Technology advancement by jbridge21 · · Score: 1

      It's quite possible to break out of the cycle of age-based close-mindedness... Mandelbrot did it, for example.

    8. Re:Technology advancement by swillden · · Score: 1

      To us , it'll still be amazing because we'll be past the 35-hump since when each invention is against the laws of nature.

      Really? Damn. I'll be 36 in about seven months. I guess I can expect a sudden hardening in my perception of the laws of nature any day now.

      Do you notice it when it happens? Is it painful?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:Technology advancement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting perspective. I wonder if after 35 it's more like you stop giving a rat's ass what the latest toys are. Whereas 16-35 you're drooling over them and under 16 you take them for granted because you don't really understand the technological leaps that were required.

  10. Yeah Right by MrNonchalant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm very skeptical of the viability of this for a consumer market and I'm pretty certain I can get 3 randomly selected users to agree with me. Firstly, the large amounts of antennas would suggest this can't make it outside of a research lab. Secondly, you can't even get 54Mbps without paying thousands of dollars per month WITH WIRES. Maybe they could transmit this much between the tower with a single client (scalability anyone?) but if our current wired infrastructure has trouble managing 100 Mbps then what good will that link be?

    Anyway, my point here is that maybe you'll see a speed increase but don't expect anything in the real world faster than a wireless G setup anytime soon. It'd be damn cool though.

    1. Re:Yeah Right by putaro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Secondly, you can't even get 54Mbps without paying thousands of dollars per month WITH WIRES
      Depends on where you live. I'm in Tokyo and I have 24 Mb/s DSL for about $35/mo. They're willing to pull a fiber to your house and do 100Mb/s for pretty close. Of course, that's just your connection to the ISP, beyond that your mileage will vary.

    2. Re:Yeah Right by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Are the antenna's difficult to integrate into a phone? Or a laptop? I don't know, do you?

      So if you cannot do this with wires, you cannot do it wireless? That the current rate would be thousands of dollars (now) does not matter. With 3G most operators charge per MB anyhow.

      Wired links within a corporate infrastructure easily manage 1Gb/s. 10 Gb/s is not a problem, certainly not in 2015. Hell, you could put that over TP copper by then.

      I agree with you that we won't see this soon. But the article stated 2015. Which is plenty of time.

    3. Re:Yeah Right by pinkocommie · · Score: 1

      Isn't 802.11n based on similar multiple antenna technology? (MIMO)?

    4. Re:Yeah Right by nick+korma · · Score: 1

      all these questions about antenna , batteries etc - who knows what we will be carrying round in 15 years - I would like to think that the technology running alongside this new 1gb wireless would also have improved beyond what we have now.. 6 years ago the mobile phone and laptop I use daily seemed years off

    5. Re:Yeah Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      faster than G? running a belkin pre-n setup at 108mbps here. admitedly it isn't an official standard, but it is available and very nice.

    6. Re:Yeah Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, but is still some way off, some manufacturers have stuff available based on it though.

    7. Re:Yeah Right by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Secondly, you can't even get 54Mbps without paying thousands of dollars per month WITH WIRES.

      How much do 100GB disk space cost today? How much did they cost 10 years ago?
      How much would you have payed 10 years ago for the data rate of a current standard DSL connection?
      How much would you have payed 10 years ago for the computing power of todays entry level PCs?
      So, are you still sure that the pricing will not be about right for the consumer market in the year 2015?
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    8. Re:Yeah Right by Gadzinka · · Score: 1

      Secondly, you can't even get 54Mbps without paying thousands of dollars per month WITH WIRES. Maybe they could transmit this much between the tower with a single client (scalability anyone?) but if our current wired infrastructure has trouble managing 100 Mbps then what good will that link be?

      That's why we should finally start deploying multicast all over the Internet. It's simply stupid that 100,000 people pulling one and the same file from the server saturate its $100k link. Or think webcasts. How easy would it be with multicast...?

      Robert

      --
      Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
    9. Re:Yeah Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could move to Japan where by the time Siemens rolls out here, Japan will have 10Gbit links to every 6 year old's cellphone in Tokyo for $50 a month.

      Unless some huge miracle occurrs, ISPs here will continue to charge enormous amounts of money for anything above 100 or so kilobits of upstream, and wireless data will continue to be charged per kilobyte by most carriers.

    10. Re:Yeah Right by bdcrazy · · Score: 1

      Doesn't ipv6 actually have multicast subdomains setup that would facilitate this?

      --
      Tonights forecast: Dark. Continued dark throughout most of the evening, with some widely-scattered light towards morning
  11. Airpics? by InternationalCow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd like this in my home wireless network, please. And used by Apple in a nice streaming solution for video, so I can stream everything from my home server to my tv. I only use my phone for SMS and making phone calls, so I don't need this on the go. But for home multimedia, well, this really opens up nice possibilities!

    --
    ----- One learns to itch where one can scratch.
    1. Re:Airpics? by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah possibilities like frying your brain with 7 high-gain antennas ;)

      --
      You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  12. very nice but... by __aahlyu4518 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015."

    Having a phone in your pocket may be obsolete in 2015 ;-)

    1. Re:very nice but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea cuz in the future ppl carry phones up the ass No the communicator will be embedded in your skull with a pneumatic nail gun. Due to future revisions of the Patriot act it will also double as a secret Echelon uplink through which the NSA logs all your subversive thoughts MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Uhumm .... I lost my tinfoil hat... found it again though.

    2. Re:very nice but... by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      I first heard this story about 10 years ago. Proof of concept kinda thing that you no longer need a phone in your pocket. This story actually lends more to us. In the future (our future because we aren't M$, Intel, AMD) we not only are freed from a "phone in the pocket" but we can also "receive faxes on the go".

      Please keep in mind, "cellular phones" were not common back then. Instead, wireless communications was considered "sacred" and thus termed "emergency communication system".

      With no further ado, the story!

      Meeting Bill

      Gates (CEO of Microsoft), Andy Grove(CEO of Intel) and Jerry Sanders (CEO of AMD) were in a high-powered business meeting. During the serious, tense discussions, a beeping noise suddenly is emitted from where Bill is sitting.

      Bill says, "Oh, that's my emergency beeper. Gentlemen, excuse me, I really need to take this call." So Bill lifts his wristwatch to his ear and begins talking into the end of his tie. After completing this call, he notices the others are staring at him.

      Bill explains, "Oh, this is my new emergency communication system. I have an earpiece built into my watch and a microphone sewn into the end of my tie. That way, I can a take a call anywhere."

      The others nod, and the meeting continues. Five minutes later, the discussion is again interrupted when Andy starts beeping. He also states, "Oh, that is my emergency beeper. Excuse me, gentlemen, this must be an important call." So Andy taps his earlobe and begins talking into thin air.

      When he completes his call, he notices the others staring at him and explains, "I also have an emergency communication system. But my earpiece is actually implanted in my earlobe, and the microphone is actually embedded in this fake tooth. Isn't that neat?"

      The others nod, and the meeting continues.

      Five minutes later, the discussion is again interrupted when Jerry emits a thunderous fart. He looks up at the others staring at him and says, "Uhh, somebody get me a piece of paper... I'm receiving a fax."

      just googled and found this. a few more jokes too!
      http://www.dersimizingilizce.com/fun%20stuff%20web %20pages/jokes/jokes%20computer.htm

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    3. Re:very nice but... by Ingolfke · · Score: 1

      Having a pocket may be obsolete in 2015 ;-)

    4. Re:very nice but... by earthman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      In Korea, only old people will use cellular phones in 2015.

  13. Now.... by Xerxes2695 · · Score: 1

    We can develop brain tumors 4 times faster than with a standard cell phone.

  14. whoa by phreakv6 · · Score: 1

    Yes in 2015... you won't need a webcam,DSL,computer combo to do a video-conference.. all u need is a fscking Siemens WDCFSCK 2354 model smartest phone in your pocket.

    --
    fifteen jugglers, five believers
    1. Re:whoa by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 0

      and with that much microwave power, you can use it to cook your lunch too.

  15. Range by rassie · · Score: 1

    The article doesn't mention range at all. Its not hard if the range is 10 cm (4" for you imperialists out there).

  16. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hee hee, oh well.

  17. You disappoint me... by nigham · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...and I thought my phone would be a chip in my cranium by the year 2005.

    --
    I don't want to read /. I want to go home and re-think my life.
    1. Re:You disappoint me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the antennas sticking out of your ears and nose.

  18. The Bright Side by koko775 · · Score: 0

    You'll be able to make a cluster out of your cell phone?

    Oh, joy. 640KB/s ought to be enough for anybody ;)

  19. Bonus! by Spoing · · Score: 1

    At night, you will emit a pleasing glow!

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  20. Re:This report is entirely worthless without detai by wowbagger · · Score: 2, Informative

    Given the number of receiving and transmitting antennas, it would sound like they are using a variant of BLAST - this is a technique that uses multipath to enhance the signal - think of it as doing spatial-domain multiplexing. By using multiple antennas, and using the multipath time difference on the signal, they are able to discriminate signals in the same band of frequecies based upon the physical location of the antennas.

    However, the odds that this will fit "in your pocket" as the story poster said are pretty slim - the physical seperation of the antennas would tend to preclude that.

  21. So, in 2015... by jb_nizet · · Score: 2, Funny

    We'll finally be able to watch a HDTV film in a crowded bus on a 2cm-large screen. Cool!

    1. Re:So, in 2015... by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      think about it: its 2015.
      Then, you will be watching hdtv in a crowded bus, via laser projection into your eye, or hdtv hud, or brainplug, ect...

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
  22. Research indicates... by thrill12 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... that actually using the new 1 Gigabit phone will cook your eyes and brain. Owners already are using the new phones as a portable replacement for their microwaves.

    Seriously: putting that much transmitting power into a phone cannot be healthy now can it ?

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
    1. Re:Research indicates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Seriously: putting that much transmitting power into a phone cannot be healthy now can it ?

      I don't see how much damage an RF radiation can do. No matter how much power you transmit via radiowaves, it's going to have negligible effect in very small scale (i.e. like in the cells in human body). Of course, there's still the problem of efficiently (and painlessly) dissipating the heat generated in the electronics, but that's a separate problem (and not a big one, probably). So, unless they run out of room in the RF part of spectrum and start moving up to microwave, there shouldn't be a big problem.

    2. Re:Research indicates... by Woy · · Score: 1
      Seriously: putting that much transmitting power into a phone cannot be healthy now can it ?

      Seriously, going faster than 15 mph on these fancy new steam engines can't be healthy now can it?

      There were actually "scientific" studies showing how the human body would desintegrate if travelling faster than 30mph or so. If we were dealing in witchcraft, or some fancy new alien-imported tecnology, correlation such as the one provided by the "scientific" studies that warn about cell phone usage would suffice. However, RF tecnology is too well understood for us to be impressed by some self-serving statistics. It will take causation and a clear mechanism of damage for those allegations to be taken seriously.

      --
      "If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
  23. A few comments by sanpitch · · Score: 1

    * This is just a few researchers in a lab. This is far from an implemenation. It IS the way future wireless standards will go.

    * Future standards will blur the lines between wireless LAN and cellular standards. Your cell phone will provide high rates, your wireless internet connection may handle higher mobility.

    * The multiple antennas mentioned here need only be at the cellular base station, or on the access point.

    1. Re:A few comments by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean the opposite? Wireless LAN will provide high rates, but cellular will offer more mobility?

      --
      'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
    2. Re:A few comments by sanpitch · · Score: 1

      No, I mean that the two will converge. Wireless lans will start to look more like cell systems, cellular systems will start to have more bandwidth, like wireless LANS.

  24. bottlenecks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is great but there still is going to be bottlenecks some where. there is no use un less you have fiber. whats comcast 3mbs? maybe if you run a pirate ring wirelessly in your own home it would be useful. Only big corperation and universities would really use it. right?

  25. Ads? by Netsensei · · Score: 1

    The worst we can get these days are annoying text messages containing ads. Imagine the possibilities of combining polyphone ringingtunes, stunning visuals on high resolution screens and this 1gbit up/downlink facility for the advertising/marketing industry. My guess for the future: a serious amount of spam, ads, adware on your cellular would be part of the forseeable future. Why ads over cellular? Because this technology wouldn't be commercially sustainable without. Now. Can you say "This call is proudly sponsored by Heineken/Coca-Cola/..."

    1. Re:Ads? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Ad breaks in the phone calls? With Google Ads adapting to what you speak on the phone?

      The house is burning, you dial the emergency number.

      Phone: "Hello, this phone call is sponsored by XY Insurances. Insurance contracts at low prices with conditions better than you have ever dreamt of. If you press 1 now, you can connect directly with our sales department. Our phone number was also stored in memory 1 of your phone." (well, that's where the number of your friend was residing, but at the moment that's a lesser problem to you) "To continue the current phone call, please press 2. Press 1 to connect to --" you press 2 quickly and get connected to the emercency call center.

      ECC: "Hello, you called the emergency number. What can we do for you?"

      You: "Please come quickly, my house is on fire."

      Phone: "(Beep) Fire extinguishers at your local K-Mart for only $4.99. Press 2 to order now. Press 1 to continue your call." (You press 1)

      ECC: "Ok, where are you?"

      You: "I'm on Washington Street ..."

      Phone: "(Beep) The biography of George Washington, 100 Pages, now on Amazon for only $10. Please press 1 to order, or 3 to continue your call." (You press 3)

      You: "House number 42 ..."

      Phone: "(Beep) Special offer to all Douglas Adams fans: The complete Hitchhiker Fan pack. All five books in a nice box, plus the TV series on DVD, for only $79.50! Press 7 to order now, or 9 to continue your call." (You press 9)

      ECC: "Are still persons in the house?"

      You: "No, I'm outside and I'm alone here."

      Phone: "(Beep) Now only $15.99 at Amazon: Home alone. Press 7 to buy now and 0 ..." (you quickly press 0)

      Phone: "(Beep) Thank you for your interest in our other offers. Special offer: Men in Black II only $19.99. Press 5 to buy, 3 for another offer, or 6 to continue your call." (You press 6)
      (Your house breaks down)

      ECC: "Hello, are you still there?"

      You: "Yes, I just pressed the wrong button ..."

      Phone: "(Beep) Nice buttons at Ebay. Press 1 for more details and 5 to continue your call." (You press 5)

      You: "My house just broke down."

      Phone: "(Beep) Find your dream-house at ImmoOnline. Press 2 to get some offers, or 2 to continue your call."

      You: "I think there's nothing to save any more anyway, so you don't have to come." (You disconnect)

      Phone: "This call was sponsored by Blah Pizza Service. Press 5 to order a pizza or 3 to end your call." (You press 3)

      Phone: "Thank you for using Annoying Phone Service."

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  26. Obligatory Stupid Quote by InvaderXimian · · Score: 1

    "With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015."

    Why? I doubt the cell phone processor would be able to do anything with data sent at that rate, other than drop it or have it essentially be a DoS attack.

  27. Why not in a PC by POds · · Score: 1

    What stops manufactorers of PC from puting this technology into PCs. If it can fit in a phone, it can fit in a PC or even better, a ... one of those portable hand held PCs (no, the ones smaller than laptops). I mean why not? I guess there must be some reason for it. Wouldnt it be great if our PCs had access to a 3G network or even better, this one?

    --


    Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
    1. Re:Why not in a PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In South Africa we already can have our laptops on 3G... See http://www.sentech.co.za but from what I hear they aren't too good...

    2. Re:Why not in a PC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Never heard of bluetooth or PMCIA cards?

      3G phone in pocket. Bluetooth on. PC talks to phone, makes connection. Done.

      Not hard.

  28. Re:With 4 receive antennas and 3 transmit antennas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's a picture of the first prototype.

    I think I'll wait until the flip version...

  29. THREE Antennas!!!1! by thetroll123 · · Score: 1

    It's getting like the hilarious Razor Wars... Wilkinson introduce the double-blade cartridge, Gillette fight back with the Mach III, Wilkinson work doubletime to bring you the state-of-the-art Quattro!

    Same thing as the megapixel nonsense, the sheep start to believe a higher number means a better product without worrying too much what the number represents, or whether having lots of that thing is necessarily good.

    1. Re:THREE Antennas!!!1! by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 1
      One key point of multiple antenas is that you can have more complex beam shaping. By adjusting the phases (and amplitudes) of each antenna you can build steerable beams by choosing the phases to produce constructive interference in the direction of interest.

      This not only allows you a stronger signal between "Bob and Alice" but it allows you to deliver a weaker signal to "Eve" (the evesdropper in all crypto books). If Eve isn't evesdropping, she will probably appreciate not having you contribute to her background noise, since she may be talking to Boris.

      --
      Think global, act loco
    2. Re:THREE Antennas!!!1! by Justice8096 · · Score: 1

      Yup - you should have added that the user should look up "smart antenna". There are already standards to use this in the government, and the cellular and EMT services have looked at it too.
      Needless to say, I have worked with this. It is much cooler than just for cellphones

  30. Nice! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, you can transfer a lot of porn over a gigabit link. (And fast, too!)

  31. and health risks are? by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

    People object to 2G and 3G masts saying they cause health problems. Faster tech will bound to have more risks.

    1. Re:and health risks are? by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ..faster tech doesn't always mean more health risks.

      people will object to fucking anything they just plain don't like.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:and health risks are? by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well most wireless data systems are rate adaptive, so to be able to use new high speed services you will require very strong signal coverage (even more radiation). 2G and 3G will still be there, plus all the other radio systems.

    3. Re:and health risks are? by dAzED1 · · Score: 1
      well, yeah...

      I mean, even if I weren't happily married, I would at least need to have some feelings for the other person. If I just "plain don't like" them, then...

      Well, depends on the situation, I guess. If I know for a fact that they're really good, I could get into some rough stuff with them. Hard to say.

    4. Re:and health risks are? by HeghmoH · · Score: 1

      people will object to fucking anything they just plain don't like.

      I don't know about you, but I myself am extremely picky about what I fuck.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  32. When do cellular and WLAN merge? by cale · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This article is interesting in the standard kind of wow, high bandwidth wireless kind of way. However, as wireless LAN technologies become more long distance (Wi-Max) and cellular technologies become more high bandwidth (this article), when will the two converge into a united space?
    I know there is a difference in the licensing of the spectrum, but disregarding governmental interferences, prevents wireless LAN and cellular from essentially becoming the same type of standard?

  33. 3G licenses? by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
    It's interesting to me that the cellular companies here in the UK paid out a ton of money for the 3G licenses, and there's now things like wifi hotspots that are nearly as useful and cheaper.

    The march of wifi seems to be ongoing, and may end up trumping 3G. Partly I think it's the low cost and flexible market.

    I've compared the price of 3G cards with using a hotspot. For £25/month from BT I can get 4,000 minutes on hotspots(16 hours). For £23.50 from Vodafone I can get a massive 75mb (yes mb) of data downloaded per month. Whilst 3G may be more useful in terms of use anywhere (although coverage is not that great yet), the price is just rubbish. If I'm going to get 75mb, I may as well just use GPRS.

    1. Re:3G licenses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...a massive 75mb (yes mb)...

      What's a mili-bit? Does 75mb equal just under a tenth of a bit?

    2. Re:3G licenses? by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 1

      No, but at 1 Gbps, 75 MB will take 8 bits/byte * 75 ms = 600 ms to download. What will Vodafone do for the rest of the month?

      --
      Think global, act loco
  34. note to self: by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    carry cell phone in back pocket away from testicles.

    ack, you've caught me thinking aloud again

  35. 1 Gbit/s using multiple-antenna systems by 183771 · · Score: 1

    Excerpt from original article:
    "One of the reasons why multiple-antenna systems are not typically used today is the very high computing power that is required at the receiving end. This is because the information that is transmitted simultaneously by multiple antennas is received by multiple receiving antennas and has to be reconstructed in realtime for the receiving device. This exceeds the capabilities of the typical chips that are currently being employed in the mobile communication industry. The researchers at Siemens overcame this challenge by developing new and optimizing signal processing algorithms that can be efficiently implemented on the hardware modules that are available today."

    http://www.quagga.net

  36. Re:With 4 receive antennas and 3 transmit antennas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that a gigabit phone your pocket or are you happy to see me?

  37. Thinking this over... by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    ... I think new phones will actually benefit from using less power:
    With " everyone " owning a cellphone, the cells actually start to overlap each other.
    This opens up the possibility of grid phoning, requiring basestations in only a few central or deserted points - whilst providing coverage through the cellphones that are near to you (and so forth until the signal finds its way to the basestation).

    Apart from the health-benefit, the phones would require a lot less power than now. The grid's latency would be the only thing that needs to be solved for this to work (assuming that each cellphone in the signal's path, call it a hop, will add a little bit to the overall network latency).

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
  38. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Then people are surprised a moran like Bush is elected president, twice.

    Elected by people who say "moran," apparently.

  39. How many antennas? by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Did I read that right? 3 for transmit and 4 for receiving?

    I can't imagine what a cell phone sportin' that technology would look like... would I need to hook it up to my tin-foil hat for better reception?

    1. Re:How many antennas? by Jozer99 · · Score: 1

      No, you would need 7 tin-foil hats... 3 for transmitting and 4 for recieving.

      I wonder what the 4th one is for... Maybe it is so that the government cans send us subliminal messages.

  40. by when? by AviLazar · · Score: 1

    Is tech moving so slow that we have to wait until 2015....a decade?
    I would think that something like this would appear (implemented) in a couple of years at most - with new phones going for some crazy price so about 3-4 years before the average person gets one.

    --

    I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
  41. Super! by bs_02_06_02 · · Score: 1

    Super! Just what I needed!

    I can get 1 gig wireless transfer rate.... but only 112k download rate, and I have to pay PER megabyte charges if I connect my phone to a laptop.
    Now, if you could get wireless phone to wireless phone transfer rates... that would be interesting! With bandwidth like that, you could set up your own long distance network. Use a mux to send all kinds of different data and voice connections over wireless, and make a bazillion dollars. Certainly more than an unlimited wireless account.

    --
    -- No sig for you!
  42. OFDM as a backhaul solution will preclude devices by jutus · · Score: 1

    http://www.wi-lan.com/products/libramx.htm

    A similar, single antenna system: 288 Mbits/sec that is going into beta next month.

    This is being pitched, as the Siemens system will be, as a wireless backhaul solution. Not for devices. That will be the responsibility of another technology.

    So all the references in the article to increasing consumer bandwidth demand are being used to underline the need for a big, fat, cost-effective (i.e. wireless) backhaul solution.

    In 2010, we'll all be using IP SIP phones that will roam seamlessly between local area access points, but they won't be mothers like the one Siemens has developed.

  43. They already have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WiFi and VOIP are already here. It's only a (short) matter of time before people in urban areas can toss their cell phones in the dustbin.

  44. Hmm.. Ya know whats funny? by digital.prion · · Score: 1

    When I'm talking on my new gigabit phone...

    smells like something's cookin'.. like.. hamburgers.. the longer I talk.. the more pungent the aroma! ya know?

    [stranger] Far out man... Far out!

    --
    Smile.
  45. Glow in the dark? by ponos · · Score: 1

    This is highly irrelevant, but I was wondering if so many electromagnetic fields are going to make us glow in the dark. Seriously, we have mobiles, TV, radio, Wi-Fi and of course all other electronic devices. Are these devices safe? I know it's not X-ray or gamma radiation but so many emissions in our houses make me worry. I could live with 1MBps wireless if 1GBps wireless is going to fry my precious fragile DNA.

    Just for the record, I'm currently studying the non-homologous end join mechanism for the repair of double strand DNA breaks, which are often induced by radiation. Am I getting paranoid?

    P.

    1. Re:Glow in the dark? by Netsensei · · Score: 0

      If I have to fry my brain, I'd rather prefer it 'bien cuit' over 'bleu'.

    2. Re:Glow in the dark? by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      This is highly irrelevant, but I was wondering if so many electromagnetic fields are going to make us glow in the dark.

      Nope - they're all in the radio and microwave frequencies. To glow in the dark you need visible radiation, which requires much, much higher energy. E = hf, and the frequency of a visible photon is several orders of magnitude greater than radio. If your phone is actually glowing in the dark, you probably don't have much to worry about because the battery will only last around five seconds :-)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  46. BLAST by kohlyn · · Score: 1

    Sounds like their using something like BLAST (bell labs asyncronous space time). Where you can transmit multiple signal on the same frequence at the same.

    (http://www.bell-labs.com/org/wireless/1131k0/wc dm a-pub/asil98_cdma_paper.pdf)

    It uses the fact that signals bounce off walls and other object and ends up taking multiple paths to the receiver.

    1. Re:BLAST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UMTS (and I think CDMA 2000) already use rake receivers to take advantage of multipath transmissions.

  47. I still want to know why by mwood · · Score: 1

    "With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015."

    Meanwhile, voice communication (you know, "telephone") still only uses bandwidth of about 4kHz and is not likely to change in the foreseeable future.

  48. in the year 2015 by seven+of+five · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    will hi tech still look keen?
    will tv be obscene?


    in the year 2026...
    will we be ruled by a buncha pricks?
    will google fail from phony clicks?

  49. With all those by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    antennas, it will be like carrying a porcupine in your pocket.

    --
    What?
  50. why dont we use microwave by harryoyster · · Score: 1

    Why dont we use microwave in our houses instead.. the effect would be the same.. directional non direction pff who cares its all radiation.. why not help fry our brains.

    --
    Got a question about UNIX ask it here : Unix/xBSD Forum
  51. Hertz was German, too by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    "bandwidth of 100 MHz"

    That's 10b:Hz. I can't wait to hear about their novel encoding strategy.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  52. Teenagers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    100MHz isn't fast enough to keep up with a couple of teens gabbing about their boyfriends.

  53. Take everything MIMO with a ton of salt by ZakMcCracken · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is a multiple-antenna technology, called MIMO for Multiple-Input-Multiple-Output. Instead of modeling the "medium" (electromagnetic spectrum) as a "box" taking a single signal as input and outputting a single signal, the medium is modelled as a matrix taking multiple signals on input and outputting multiple signals, on the same frequencies and at the same time.

    The capacity increase is *theoretically* limited by the max number of antennae in input or output: say there are N transmitters and N receivers, if you assign each transmitter to a receiver and place a shielded coax cable between the pair instead of relying on em free-range transmission, there should not be much interference for sure. Thus you have N times the throughput, and that's how MIMO throughput numbers are computed *for PR purposes*...

    In practice, when you use the air medium, there is a good deal of interference between the antennae, but research can derive some increased capacity (by "diagonalizing" the MIMO channel, i.e. identifying linearly independent sub-channels in this matrix of channels).

    However, the practical increase is *in no way* linear as a function of the size of the MIMO array as some would obviously like other people (press, stock analysts, investors...) to believe. Additionally, MIMO works best in certain environments; independent sub-channels are best created by channel irregularities that are at a distance comparable to the scale of the antenna array. It means, for instance, that MIMO does not generally improve much the capacity of line-of-sight transmission but provides better improvements indoors!

  54. needs grow with capacity by davidwr · · Score: 1

    20 years ago, Microsoft Word for the Mac fit on two 800KB floppies.

    Today it's several hundred times as big.

    By the time this ships, it will be a reasonable-sized improvement over what's already out there, and 5 years later people will be asking themselves how they ever got along without it.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  55. Gigabit pocket... by Cyn · · Score: 0

    With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015.

    Yeah, and we'll all be sterile by 2016. Go humans!

    --
    cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
    1. Re:Gigabit pocket... by brianconnolly · · Score: 1

      after about three dozen "it's gonna fry our brains!" comments i'm pretty sure the lame one-off comments about the health implications of this technology aren't funny anymore.

      nope, not funny.

  56. Is this just a "trick?" by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 1

    Is this just some sort of trick with existing equipment? The article mentions that it uses several transmitting and several receiving links. Could I just set up 3 point-to-point (several hundred mbit) radio's (in a nice little box) at each location, plug them into a switch with aggregation capabilities at each end and then send data through the switches? The switch could then distribute the load between the 3 radio's and perhaps achive close to 1Gbit with current technology. The article mentions WiFi (point-to-multipoint), but doesn't clearly state whether or not this technology is point-to-multipoint or not. It is talking about 4G Cell technology so that would be point-to-multipoint, but if you require 3 or 4 antennas, and its 5Ghz, then this will never work for cellphones - 5Ghz blows for penetration (I said that kind of funny). This just looks like todays technology but jammed into an "Intelligent antenna system" (taking a bunch of existing wireless backhaul technology, sticking it into one box, aggregating it, calling it new). Am I missing something?

    --
    You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  57. chip in cranium delayed by FUD by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Due to ongoing litigation by the Santa Cranium Organization, the cranium-phone is on hold for the time being.

    We hope to have this litigation done by the end of 2005 and begin shipping shortly thereafter.

    Sammy "J. is for Justice" Palmsbeatsms
    President and CEO,
    Intelligent Brain Machines

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  58. hertz is signaling rate, bandwidth is throughput by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Hertz is the signaling rate (baud rate), throughput depends on more than that.

    If I have 4 possible states per signal, I can encode 2 bits per signal change.

    Your old 33.6Kbps modem changes signals far less often - it encodes multiple bits per signal change. That's why they aren't called "33.6Kbaud" modems.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  59. Informative!? by ZakMcCracken · · Score: 1

    I never quite realized the telecom illiteracy of /. readers reached such levels, but a +4 informative for this one is too much (I hope that by now it has fallen).

    Hz (bandwidth) is not bps (bitrate)!

    With a strong enough Signal-to-Noise ratio, you can fit the largest of bitrates in the narrowest of bandwidths. See the Hartley-Shannon law for this...

    1. Re:Informative!? by ndevice · · Score: 1

      in my defense, it was a bit late at night; but you're right of course.

      However, how much power can you practically pump out of those 3 transmitting antennas (taking battery life into account)? And how much processing power can you spare to recover that singal (again, also taking battery life into account)?

  60. Re:hertz is signaling rate, bandwidth is throughpu by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    "Baud" is "symbols per second", while "Hertz" is "cycles per second". A bit is a symbol, and the bandwidth is in cycles per second, probably a square (-ish) wave. The actual ambiguity in the article that might be at play here is that the "bandwidth" of 100MHz might be 100MHz centered around a 1GHz frequency, with, say, 10 independent frequencies each encoding an average of 100Mbps. So each frequency in the demultiplexed transmitted signal is transmitting about 10Hz:b simultaneous with the other frequencies. As I said, I'm waiting to see them release details of their encoding protocol, scheduled in 2/2005.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  61. Oh joy. by cepler · · Score: 1

    "With any luck the phone in your pocket will have a gigabit link by the year 2015."

    With a GigaBucks price...plus taxes, fees, misc charges, usage fees, misc fees, we want more money fees, tax taxes, pass-thru taxes, pass-thru fees, it cost us money to set this up fees, etc etc etc.

  62. and at 10 cents/MB tran$fered, you will be broke.. by Allah · · Score: 1

    you will already be out of 100 dollars in
    on second...................

  63. Thanks Zak, you made this thread Informative by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is an interesting link. Is is a gross oversimplification to state that Hartley-Shannon gets 'super Nyquest' rates by using the amplitude to encode multiple bits per cycle? I'm sure that this could be done 'in principle', but in practice, the amplitude is dropping off as 1/r (power drops as 1/r^2) and amplitude is messed up by all sorts of other things (wall, rain, me ...). How in practice do people achieve this theoretical bitrates? Do you have to send a 'reference singnal' and use the relative amplitudes?

    --
    Think global, act loco
    1. Re:Thanks Zak, you made this thread Informative by ZakMcCracken · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not oversimplified to say that, in fact it's a common practice. In QAM modulation systems (Quadrature and Amplitude Modulation), "complex amplitude" (i.e. amplitude + phase) modulates a waveform with not just two values (+1 and -1) but four values (1, i, -1, -i) or more...

      The set of amplitude values is represented in the complex plane as a "constellation". At the receiving end, you have to "recover" the amplitude and the phase of the emitted signal, which is the process of synchronisation.

      In cable (coaxial) networks, where attenuation is lower than in free-range transmissions, 64-QAM or even 256-QAM (a modulations with 256 complex values, an 16x16 square in the complex plane) is commonly used.

      Power and range do limit the effectiveness of modulations. In GPRS/EDGE packet radio, for example, QAM schemes are varied as a function of radio conditions to avoid using too ambitious of a modulation for what the channel can support.

    2. Re:Thanks Zak, you made this thread Informative by shis-ka-bob · · Score: 1

      thanks... I should have taken more EE and less physics :-) Then I might be better at getting $$$ for my schooling. Oh well... The world is full of interesting and useful things to learn. Now I can tell my kids yet another reason why imaginary numbers really matter.

      --
      Think global, act loco
    3. Re:Thanks Zak, you made this thread Informative by cot · · Score: 1

      Have any links on this? I couldnt find anything in wikipedia. I thought that the nyquist info limit was enforced by the uncertainty principle, which is a rather hard limit to overcome.

      --

    4. Re:Thanks Zak, you made this thread Informative by ZakMcCracken · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uncertainty principle, as in Quantum Mechanics?! That's a really funny one! The only thing fundamentally limiting signals transmission is noise, which in electromagnetic transmissions comes in its most unavoidable form from thermal noise. There are other sources of "noise" or "interference": depending on the environment, interference can come from other communicating devices, a car's engine ignition sparks, thunder, a static discharge, a microwave oven... And worsening it all, media also always attenuate the signal, more or less, therefore weakening the Signal-to-Noise ratio which along with the available bandwidth determines the theoretical capacity of the transmission system. The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with it.

      Any good introductory course in Digital Communications will cover this, and introduce the notion of QAM and constellations in passing. May I suggest this Digital Communications OpenCourseWare module (viva MIT) or, for a gentler introduction that might not be as complete, this set of slides (viva University of Cambridge).

      And once you've read all about it, be sure to write up an entry about it in WikiPedia ;-) -- or to update this one.

      Radio systems utilizing multiple antennae (MIMO), may "trump" this to some extent by playing on the fact that spectrum is a three-dimensional medium and not a one-dimensional medium (contrary to twisted pairs or coaxial cables). On that, you may want to read this intro.

  64. Re:Curious by torako · · Score: 1

    See-mens is actually the correct way to pronounce it. I'm a native German speaker, I pretend to know.

  65. All I'm asking for is.... by mcrbids · · Score: 1

    I want 128kbps. It shouldn't add more than 20-30 ms to a ping time. I want it anytime/anywhere. For a flat monthly fee, and don't count my minutes. I'd be happy to pay $75-$100/month for this. Much more and I probably wouldn't bite.

    I'm an indie developer, and do *alot* of remote sessions by SSH. Such service would free me (at last) from having to plan trips and vacations around which hotels provide DSL Internet service to its guests. (although, to be fair, it's much easier to find that now than it used to be, but it does suck that I frequently have to pay $9.95/day)

    Verizon Wireless, are you listening?

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:All I'm asking for is.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Verizon Wireless, are you listening?

      Of course we are, we've been monitoring you for months.

      We can hear you now.

  66. Re:This report is entirely worthless without detai by WaterBreath · · Score: 1

    Let's chill for a second and think about this.

    It is pretty clear that this is prototype technology. Especially given their 10-year timeline. They've got a lot of time to figure things out. But they didn't say it was for the phones either.

    There is pretty much no reason to provide that type of bitrate on a phone. The human voice only needs a 3KHz bandwith to sound pretty darn good. Assuming the sound waves are being transmitted digitally, even with no compression, that translates to only 6Kbps (gotta sample at least twice per cycle of the highest frequency component). Let's say that overhead in multiple levels of protocol wrappings is 200% of the data size (seems large to me, but I could be wrong). That ups the necessary transfer rate to 18Kbps.

    Granted, that may not be ideal for the increasing variety of data services offered on the phones. But 1Gbps? That's a bit extreme. Our PCs do just fine at 100Mbps (or less if they're wireless). I just can't believe they'd be talking about the actual phones. It has to be the backend.

  67. faster, better tumors by ColonBlow · · Score: 1

    You know, if we could actually see radio waves, we'd still be communicating by pony express.

    --
    free online diet tracking.
  68. What a coincidence! by bloggins02 · · Score: 1

    ... by 2015

    Isn't that also the year we all get our pink Mattel Hoverboards? Is that gonna be a cool year or what?!

  69. By 2015 you say? Holo-p0rn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What else?

  70. Re:This report is entirely worthless without detai by rkrabath · · Score: 1

    Don't think voice, think realtime uncompressed two way hi-def video.

    --
    Who do I have to blackmail to get some representation around here!?!?!?!?
  71. Re:This report is entirely worthless without detai by WaterBreath · · Score: 1
    An interesting possible use of the technology, if it were implemented for the phones themselves. It conjures memories of the coolness of Dick Tracy.

    Of course there is still a big question in the industry whether people really want that. Those of us who are geeks no doubt think it is "cool", but even of us, how many of us would really want to use a video phone all the time? There are guaranteed to be times that you're going to want to remain unseen. And the question is, do those outweigh the times you want to be seen? If the answer is yes, video will have to remain a just a feature of the phone, rather than the main selling point, which means it will need to not have a big price impact. The corps are worried about that, because it means the technology will have to be cheap before they can sell it to the general populace.

    Hence the 10-year timeline, which still should put things in perspective for the original poster.

  72. Mod up informative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yes

  73. Maybe in the lab but... by geekee · · Score: 1

    In practice it would be difficult to get 1Gb/s in 100MHz of bandwidth. You need extremely good linearity in your link to get such a large constellation. To beat the noise figure problem you need either short distances or high transmit power. 1Gb/s links are being researched usning 60GHz carriers and a lot more bandwidth. 802.16 will more likely be used for 4G when low power solutions become available on the market.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  74. Sounds mighty improbable... by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1

    Where the heck could they get that much spectrum space? For 1Gb/sec we'd need at least 100 to 300 Mhz of spectrum per user per cell. There just ain't that much spectrum available anywhere below 6GHz. Eventually when the current analog TV channels go away that will free up some space but not enough.

  75. Obligatory Wardriving Post by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    Heh. I wonder just how many different bands there are, and how many wardrivers scanning them...?

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  76. Re:This report is entirely worthless without detai by mattj452 · · Score: 1

    The industry is craving for the MIMO-technology (Multiple Input-Multiple Output). The frequency spectrum is getting more and more stuffed. MIMO gives diversity to the system, which basically means that you can send more data on the same bandwidth. For a common user, this technology might only give a high quality improvement, but for an operator it means that he can stuff more users to their systems, which in turn generates more money for them.

  77. One small drawback though... by Timmy+D+Programmer · · Score: 1

    It has so far inadvertantly cooked 3 people standing too close to the antennas!

    --


    (If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
  78. Where will they get the spectrum by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can't compare two technologies solely on bitrate, you are forgetting power, range, spectrum, equipment size and equipment cost as factors in your comparison.

    But you can compare them when you take some of those items into account.

    WiMAX (802.11g) - in the appropriate codec for this comparison - gets 70 Mbps out of a 14 MHz channel (a little wider than two TV channels). This system claims 1 Gbps out of a 100 MHz channel and spatial diversity. That's twice the bps/cps, which is about right for using 3->4 spatial diversity on a channel with the same signal/noise ratio and propagation characteristics.

    So this is not a breakthrough. It's just a faster-and-wider version of the same level of technology. Which is about right, since some of the coding options used in WiMAX are within single-digit dB of the shannon limit, so there isn't much more left to get out of the spectrum.

    The kicker is the bandwidth of the channel. WHERE are you going to get a spare 100 MHz of bandwidth to use?

    The 802 working groups are already begging for bandwidth, getting some thanks to cooperation by the FCC and its opposite numbers in other countries - over strong oppostion from broadcasters and other users of the spectrum. But that bandwidth gets broken up into channels - so a deployment can use multiple channels in nearby cells/sectors to avoid interference and multiple players can use different channels in the same area. This proposal would use up essentially ALL the bandwidth in a given allocation for ONE channel for ONE carrier.

    Is it going to be licensed? Who will own the license? Nobody else can play - monopoly carrier time again. Is it going to be unlicensed? How will a carrier write terms-of-service giving quality-of-service guarantees?

    Further, spatial diversity requres the antennas to have non-trivial separation between the component antennas with respect to the length of the transmission path. Inches gets you across the room, but more is needed to get you across the city.

    I wonder if this article is missing something: Perhaps the system is intended, not as a MAN (Metropolitan Area Network - a last-mile solution), but as a LAN or PAN (Personal Area Network - a very short range wireless link - like bluetooth - intended to replace cabling around a computer or a few cubes in a room.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Where will they get the spectrum by khanisaryyahoo.com · · Score: 1

      Yah.The system is changing so fast.Telepathy may soon be the answer.Mine you:We are still using the GSM as the in thing.What of maintenance problems-so many antennas? We are in for environmental pollution. Anyway,2015 is a bit far off.

      --
      PJK
  79. What happens when... by ElGanzoLoco · · Score: 1

    So what happens when you accidently cross the link between 2 receivers?

    Does your head blow up (buffer overflow!) or something?

    --
    Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
  80. Re:Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You obviously never heard of the cliche. Pop a google for "get a brain morans".

  81. Udderly Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A new technology that's faster than 3g? Great! Well.. not really. I'm sure it could be utilized in countries that eagerly adopt these new technologies... but here in the good ole Bricks and Mortar USA we HATE CHANGES. My cell phone works. I'm happy. Nobody wants more, they just want some. Technology is second to image. I'm sure most of us would rather have that new Vertu leather-wrapped magnesium-alloy thingermajig than a matte-black phone that you can stream internet radio across. Industry doesnt see the need to roll out these new innovations, which is why we dont even have 3g! We're looking waaay to far into the future here. Our garbage CDMA/TDMA networks are already taxed, and things don't get fixed or improved because everyone's buying everyone else every other week! These providers, as well as the RnD department need to start working solutions that can work with what we *have*, not what we can build in a laboratory for the cost of the nations budget deficit. Rock on with innovations and new technologies, but let's think practical rather than racing to be the first to the tB/s wireless mark.

  82. Not as great as it looks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technology you can buy today gets you 54Mbps (in wireless tech marketing speak -- that is NOT 54Mbps of real data throughput) on a 20MHz channel. The article specifies a 100MHz channel for the 1Gbps technology. 5 * 54Mbps = 270Mbps. So really they're just talking about a ~4x increase over today's technology, in 10 years. Not so exciting, ey?

    Secondly, note that to get 54Mbps (again, that's a marketing number) you need to have a receive signal strength of -73dBm or higher, with a signal to noise ratio of 23dB. If you put your cell phone into debug mode, or look at the network status on your sidekick, see how often you get a -73dBm signal today. The technology will probably require higher powered base station radios. If wireless providers are having problems getting adequate cell phone coverage today, those problems are going to continue with the high bandwidth services in the future. And all that power is going to come at a cost of raising the noise floor. Making this stuff happen is non-trivial.

    Bottom line is what everyone already knew -- this press release it too short on information to show if they've really made any breakthroughs. The article gives me the impression that they've improved on the easy part, and they're giving themselves 10 years to deal with the hard part. To quote Homer, "booooooring!"

  83. Heat your coffee cup by sch7572 · · Score: 1

    It probably radiates so much power, you could heat your coffee by keeping it next to the 1gbps transmitter :-)

  84. New and improved... slices, dices, etc.. by digital+photo · · Score: 1

    Okay... three transmitting antennae and four receiving antennae... hmm...

    I'm trying to picture the kind of interferrence this causes with all three/four antennae doing spread spectrum and hopping around to find open channels to load up on.

    Also kinda wondering if this will drop like crazy when I heat up my muffin in the morning in the microwave. Hmm...

    I'm also wondering whether I would feel safe having this kind of device on my person... as it is, current celphones emit quite a bit of power.

    The next question: Is the billing going to be kb/sec? If it is, count me out.

    Would be interesting to see what this will be like. Would also be interesting to see whether or not it would be feasible given the limited backbone most wireless cell providers make availab le currently.

  85. Re:On/off switch... by sail4evr · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I really need three times as much radiation blasting the side of my head or irradiating my pubics if I wear it on a belt with hands free.