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Xfce 4.2.0 Released
kelnos copies and pastes: "The Xfce Team is pleased to announce the availability of Xfce 4.2.0, the next major version of the Xfce Desktop Environment and Development Framework for Unix and Unix-like platforms. Xfce 4.2.0 can be downloaded here. Xfce 4.2.0 includes new applications like a session manager and an application finder, a new and beautiful icon theme, support for bleeding-edge features (like the X.org Composite extension), usability and performance improvements, better support for multihead desktops, new and updated translations, additional themes, and various other improvements over the previous stable releases. See this page for a complete list of changes between Xfce 4.0 and Xfce 4.2. Furthermore, Xfce 4.2 is the first desktop environment to ship with an easy-to-use and platform-independent graphical installation wizard, which takes care of compiling and installing Xfce on your system. Visit the os-cillation installers website for download links and instructions. If you want to try Xfce 4.2.0 first, without installing anything on your system, you might want to try the Xfce Live Demo 0.2, provided by os-cillation, to discover the power and efficiency of Xfce."
Oh, wait, I found it. It requires GTK+. Hm. Are there any good WMs which don't have any gtk+ or Qt dependencies? Remember, I said GOOD. I've used wmaker and its ilk, but something a little more modern would be nice.
Oh, and I'm also familiar with DSL, but I hate Debian...
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
I've been a Window Maker user for 7 or 8 years and I've tried XFCE 4.0 and the RC's of 4.2. I used 4.0 for a good 2 weeks at home and at work and then 4.2 RC for another week but I'm back using Window Maker again. XFCE is very nice and the developers have done a great job making a nice light WM, but the reason I switched back is the same reason I don't use KDE or Gnome. They all redraw funny. The GUI doesn't feel "solid" like MS Windows, OS X or Window Maker does. I'm not talking about stability. I wish I could explain it better and I hope someone else can chime and explain it. Here's how I reproduce it:
When I have 4+ desktops (or even one loaded up with applications) and I switch desktops or alt-tab, with XFCE (or Gnome, KDE) it takes longer than it should to redraw the screen or window. I notice this even on fast machines with fast video cards running recent Xorg releases.
Does anybody else experience this?
To anyone who thinks this sounds like the best alternative to the bloated KDE and Gnome, it is. Go the their website and check out the flash demos. They show how well (and how fast) it works better than any description. The window manager has about a bazillion styles from simple to extreme. If you want to compile it yourself, the graphical installers are fabulous. Translations into 40 languages! Xfce simply rocks.
To avoid seeing this message again, always shut down your computer properly by selecting Shut Down from the Start Menu.
here's the torrent of it
~/.sig: No such file or directory
Looks really nice from the screenshots. Something between Gnome and KDE (but more Gnome like) Thanks to the developers, I'll give it a try if I get it to run on my PPC Ubuntu :-)
icewm is very light, but keeps a familiar look and feel...
But can you place icons and folders on the dekstop? It seems like alot of these less popular but sometimes more feature filled window managers are lacking something as basic as a desktop. Xfce looks real nice but if i can't just drag an icon onto my main screen, then forget it.
Regards,
Steve
finally, a slashdot comment to which I laughed.
Is this release substantially slower/more bloated than the 4.0 release, and less so than the 4.1 release? When I went from the 4.0 release to the 4.1 release, my system couldn't take it and still remain reasonable (I have a junker running FreeBSD). So how does 4.2 run, for those who went right ahead and installed the release? I wonder if there will even be packages built for this version for the 4.x tree.
...I'm interested. As a developer previously Windows based, but moving to Open Source, I'm reading up on GTK+ and QT and their related GUIs. I found this (useful info, though god knows why they put it in a pic very informative.
You must be new here if you think that people stop complaining just because someone posts a link to an article. People around here don't read articles, simply complaining is so much more convenient.
With that out of the way, having tried a beta of xfce4.2 I have to say I was really impressed and I'm sure I'll give it an other spin now it is released.
Keep up the good work!
From the download page of the Xfld.org website:
They have an obligation to do exactly that--keep the licensing straight--so they aren't distributing something they don't have a license to distribute. Perhaps it is time to comb the distribution and make sure the licensing is correct.
Digital Citizen
I wonder if this now means IceWM is no longer the only WM where I can set F11 to `tile windows vertically`...
A blog I run for the wealth
I use sometimes rox-filer and the only good thing about it it's speed. Otherwise, it is rather poor.
"Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
For people who want speed and simplicity, I don't see what's wrong with fluxbox. For people who want a full-featured desktop environment, KDE seems fine to me -- I don't remember it being at all slow, even on old hardware. Maybe five years from now xfce will be the WM I suggest to Unix newbies.
Find free books.
After looking at the screenshots, Xfce very remotely resembles OS X. Why hasn't Apple sued Xfce to destruction yet?
Do yourselves a favor; try ion for 15 minutes and you'll be hooked.
I ran out of mod points, and I'm getting 12KB/s down on the torrent. A few more slashdotters should increase my speed a tad. :P
I used xfce extensively when it was still based on CDE (years ago). I had to stop because the "focus follows mouse" policy had changed. When a new window popped up, the focus changed to the new window even if my mouse was still over the window I needed to be typing in. The pop up window was presenting output, but all my interaction was in this other window. It had something to do with a focus stack. I think one of the other users was offering a reward to whoever could bring back the old behavior. I finally gave up and moved to blackbox. Is this problem fixed yet?
How is this in a kiosk environment? I've been using KDE's kiosk features for the bank of public workstations I administer. I rebuild the home directory for each session, but I like to remove unnecessary settings and actions to avoid confusion.
Cool, thanks :^)
xfce is the hottest thing for the desktop on Linux...
kudos to the XFCE dev team...
as far as complaints are concerned don't take them serously because 99% of it will most likely just be malcontents and trolls wanting to spread their bad attitude...
use vnc2swf
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
It's a classic. Reposted countless times on Slashdot and other websites since it's first appearance in 1998. The poster had enough sense to change the claimed Mac model from 8600/300 to G5, which is better than your average canned post troll can do, but it's still a six-year-old repost.
(see http://www.kottke.org/98/11/ for a nearly word-for-word identical post made 6 years ago)
0 1 - just my two bits
the geek stoners will like that
A a universal frontend for configure and make, which has a list of --enable-* and --with-* options, maintained in a file separate from configure. The front-end could be customized by each distro to create packages in its native form if desired. It should depend on some simple widget set, maybe even Xlib, and not GTK+ or Qt.
It doesn't have to be for essential things like glibc, bash, or other such text-based programs. Maybe the X server itself and up should be buildable by this system.
I run a lab of thin clients hanging off a rack of Dell servers. I really wasn't too keen on umpteen Gnome sessions running, or even half a dozen bloaty nautiluses. So I stripped them out, and made XFCE the only option.
Its slick, light, windowsy-enough to not scare newbies too much, and the lab has run for over a term with no problems.
I set the servers up to give the users a choice of connecting to the Linux boxes or Windows boxes, and 95% of the connections are to the Linux boxes....
Baz
I wonder whether there's a role for something like "Gtk--": the Gtk/++ API implemented minimally. Both graphics and features are reduced to the bare usable minimum, but compiling against Gtk-- lets "Gtk" dependent apps run on totally stripped systems (like the requested pendrive). Of course a Qt-- seems just as possible, as I'm discussing only architectures, not which toolkit is better.
Such a "Toolkit--" could be a good enhancement, or spinoff, of the Gtk/Qt unification projects underway. The holy grail is a single build with style features from any toolkit selectable at runtime, without stopping the use of any program due to toolkit dependencies. "Style" includes under-the-hood features like IPC message buses and HW support. Open source is so mutably refactorable - let's leverage that main asset, and have it all!
--
make install -not war
I've been running xfce for years now, in that time I have yet to restart X, amasing really as I have a cron job running nightly updating.. but I swear if I go into work tommorow and my box(dual head) with a gizillion xterms open, gedits all over, ICA windows, vnc sessions, logins to places I've forgotten password to etc breaks.. I'm gonna go grrr and drink pepsi! yes pepsi! thats how bad this could be!
moo
All operating systems' origins can be traced back to the 1960s, when they invented operating systems. OS development is largely "punctuated evolution" - incremental accelerated by occasional revolutionary changes. So OS'es with older, more direct roots have the advantage of maturity, meaning that many problems which OS'es address have been solved, in order to survive enough to contribute to the next generation. Truly new OS'es, like PalmOS, aren't even tested enough in many scenarios to predict how they'll fail, the most imporant property of using an OS. Some OS'es, like Windows, are trapped in both worlds: significant new, untested tech combined with lots of obsolete legacy apps to support, often in mutually exclusive modes or subsystems. Of all these lineages, Linux probably has the best deal, being a rebirth of pedigreed Unix architectures, without the old apps or users to hold back innovation, combined with its essential self-modifying toolchain and community.
--
make install -not war
I then installed xfce (previous version) manually (one annoying dependency at a time ;)) on top of it. As it was a minimal centos install I had no kde, gnome or any other graphical desktop thingy installed.. so now its just xfce with whatever dependencies it required..
There were many many dependencies to install but still it zips along nicely now with none of the useless clutter that normally seems to come with 'all things to all people' desktop environments these days.
Insert your standard Gentoo troll here. Seriously, though, you seem to be describing Portage with a graphical frontend.
This page was generated by a Flock of Attack Kittens for you.
I mean, come on... that's just awesome. It's like, "I'm loading XFCE 4.2.0, time to spark up."
Join Tor today!
I have been using XFCE since the 3.X days, and I must say it is a awesome desktop manager. I run it on my high powered 3 Ghz office PC, as well as my super slow Pentium 233 Picturebook.
I have been using the various RC's of the 4.2 tree on my laptop (for months), and havn't had a single crash. I can imagine that the final release (which apt is upgrading as we speak) is going to be gold.
I have used KDE and Gnome a fair bit, but my quest for a light weight feature rich manager has always ended at XFCE. I really can't think of any reason to bother with KDE or Gnome over XFCE other than bloat!
Give XFCE a try, I'm sure you'll love it!
Michael
Gamblers Forum
Clearly a lot of /.ers have started downloading XFld (the XFCE live demo - basically Knoppix with XFCE 4.2) many using the torrent. If you are one of the majority who aren't uploading at all, could you PLEASE learn how to open port 6881?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
... and are running Windows XP
...
been running xfce for a while now on openbsd and freebsd. freebsd ports keep up to date, but i'm hoping openbsd ports gets the bump up to 4.2.0 in time for 3.7
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Seriously, give it a whirl, specially if you're unenchanted with KDE/GNOME's last offerings or have older hardware and want to run something better looking than Fluxbox. XFCE has got an increased number of users since version 4, and with good reason. It's great.
The 4.2 version fixes a number of issues with the previous 4.x ones - namely, session management, better configuration options and interface polish, specially in stuff like the taskbar and the panel. The only thing i imagine lacking from XFCE are desktop icons, and they're scheduled for a future version.
Yeah, I guess so. The important thing is to turn USE flags (that's the portage term, right?) into checkboxes that say something like what's on screenshot 3 at http://xfce-installers.os-cillation.com/, and dependency checking into something that looks like screenshot 2. Basically, give an interface that the rest of the world is familiar with (the installation wizard), but tie it in with the disto's package management system, and/or build from source.
well, it depends...
:) It is lichtweigth and works friendly enough.
:) srry folks at xfce, but xfce stil requires some touches for it to be my favorite windowmanager.
it sure looks nice, and its transparant backdrop thingy is definitly cool
It is, however, definitely no replacement voor gnome/kde in any way. It's filebrowser can't match konqueror/nautilus. It's control center is useless. It's program bar completely ignores menu, and for some reason allways stays on top, which is just annoying. So no, for a 'desktop gui', it isn't my choice.
I find windowmaker to be a far nicer gui
The website has a "trailer" promo showing new features but it's encoding in freakin' WMV?
What were they thinking?!
Thank you for your hard work on XFCE!
The XFCE file manager is the single worst element of an otherwise very nice desktop. I use it anyhow, but rarely browse files with XFFM, opting instead to resort to command line navigation and launching of applications and documents.
The other annoyance I have is the taskbar taking up so much space and looking ugly unless it's on the opposite end of the screen from the panel. I almost wish it had a panel more like KDE's, with a task switcher as part of it.
I liked XFCE a lot but could I just couldn't figure the printing system with it. That seemed to me to be the main problem with it. That and the SMB browsing that just didn't seem to work for me...
I LOVE WindowMaker, the KISS design strategy and the lack of an integrated file manager make it ideal for how I use the machine. It's designed from the bottom up for desktop paging, and the fact that I use OS X at work makes for an easy transition.
s t' layout would be way cool. Maybe it would have to be a build-option to keep current users happy.
My only feature requests are:
1. History pull-downs for text-entry boxes (like the 'run command...' dialog.
2. A way to pull the same menus out of WM docked apps as the KDE kicker, I'm a noatun user and it's possible to LOSE the noatun UI and end up having to 'killall' it.
3. Apple-style XML plist files for preference files, and Apple-compatible file structure. It looks like the current system is CLOSE but it has to be dead-on to keep one home directory sane when switching back-and-forth between systems. This is something I'd like to see for all programs though, the whole '~/Library/Preferences/org.windowmaker.wprefs.pli
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
I don't know who you are but you are not an Xfce developer. You're posting history also shows a high amount of downmodded posts.
... too bad you are taking credit for something you didn't help out with. Perhaps you would like to make it up and send us some donation$ ?
/. crowd: the server isn't even getting warn yet... bring it on more!
Too bad. I'm one of the people who puts a lot of time in xfce
PS oh yeah to the
PS2 thx to the xfce.org crew... now get back to work for 4.4.0 !
I've been a die-hard Afterstep fan for years, until I discovered WindowMaker and found it not only an adequate replacement, but a worthy and much better successor.
Several years later, the same story repeated with WindowMaker being the old system and XFCE4 being the newcomer.
My only complaint with it is that I can't cover up the taskbar except for using the auto-hide feature, which I loathe. If I could do that, or even disable it altogether (most of the times I just about know what tasks I've running, thank you) then I would give it 10/10.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Gah. I'm sick of more knoppix derivatives. Every time I see a cool looking Linux distro I find out it's just Knoppix with different packages.
Sure, Debian and Knoppix are good, but they're not so good everyone has to start copying them. I had the WORST time getting a live CD because of a Knoppix bug for my hardware. It was affecting nearly every other live CD distribution! If it's not straight up Knoppix then it's based off Knoppix derivatives Morphix or Damn Small. Is this the true danger of a software monoculture?
that uses GNOME!! I use XFCE for my notebook due to its slick lightweight interface... and minimal overhead.
/home/luser too :)
http://www.encryptec.net/flashlinux/
This is a 200MB distro complete with openoffice (or abiword/gnumeric)... so it fits on a 256MB stick with space for
bloody slow but useful. With 256MB sticks being thrown out in wheatbix packets it is spot on.
This distro could be trimmed to fit in 128MB if you deleted open office... any smaller and you would need to resort to xdirectFB or similar since X takes a fair chunk... but XFCE with GTK+ is not that heavy, but wont make that much difference compated to a butchered gnome/KDE installation, maybe 15~20MB lighter...
Either way, you wont find a pretty windowmanager that doesnt use some kind of pretty widget/graphics library. GTK+/QT are not what makes gnome/kde so heavy, its all the extraneous crap that comes with it. The libraries on their own are negligible.
just my 0.02.
err!
jak
Course,
shut up.
XFree86 4.2.0 released? ... I need more sleep..
Hey, flux can look great if you spend the time to set it up properly. On the other hand, I'm really impressed with the XFCE screenshots. I used XFCE a year or so ago - now I'm using KDE on stronger machines, and fluxbox/rox on lower-end machines. Didn't like the filemanager back then - did it improve? There is still rox if didn't though...
I'm not bashing Flux, at all - i used to use it a lot. But XFCE gives you the "GNOME-look-and-feel" without the bloat that's been plaguing it lately. Flux looks, more... well, elite :)
As for the filemanager, it has improved a lot but it's still a little weird to use. It tries to mix the best of dual pannel filemanagers and "explorer" ones, with mixed success. I use it every now and then, but i still preffer XNC better.
My linux box is a P-233MMX with a Chips & Technologies graphics adapter and 64MB of RAM. Needless to say, the definition of 'lightweight' seems to have left me behind - FireFox is supposed to be lightweight, but when I am forced to use it I discover that it takes so long to render pages that it can make any connection feel like dialup.
I've been using WindowMaker because it's the most lightweight thing I can find that I don't consider ugly as sin, but I would like to have something that does more than just draw boxes around my xTerms.
Has anyone else tried this on a similarly low-power computer? Is it really lightweight, or is it just "lighter-weight?"
i've noticed as a new feature since the beta versions that they've made it easy enough for people to combine the taskbar with the panel (by having an option to add a taskbar applet on the panel).
Before they are seperated, just like the way the default screenshots look like without a way of combining them.
Eventhough it's easy to combine the two, there isnt a simple way of disabling the default taskbar up top other than killing the xftaskbar4 process or modifying the script to stop it from loading. I think it would be great if they have this in the control options...
my blog
Ecks-fee-see, as in shit?
Actually, I'm quite happy to use XFCE without desktop icons; when I'm in a position to use Gnome, I go in and turn the icons off.
The only major thing I miss from fluxbox is its built-in tabbing of like windows. If XFCE had window tabbing, I would be in a singular WM nirvana.
Terrific. Now we can subvert our package management systems, and screw up our computers just like Windows users do. In no time at all we'll be formatting our hard drives and reinstalling everything from scratch on an annual basis. Maybe then GNU/Linux will be considered "ready for the desktop".
Oh and if you use the installers. select /usr instead of /usr/local for the install location...
it will overwrite slackware 10's XFCE 4 install perfectly. log out and back in... mmmm XFCE 4.2 fresh and tasty.
any other Open source app is utter crap compared to XFCE now.
hear that you Open source project coders???? if you guys to not adopt XFCE's installer system then you all are big-dumb-sucker-heads.
they at least are interested in making things useable for the users instead of intentionally using xlib5-3pre-alpha 7 CVS build 20050214 from the future.
they use older libs that they KNOW will be out there and are not lazy like the rest of you.
XFCE = real developers who care about users and open source.
P4 systems are going for $500. You can get CRTs for FREE from almost any computer recycling dump. Gimme a break, there is no need for even welfare recipients to be running your hardware at this point.
First of all it is based on kernel 2.4 and secondly, it doesn't work on any of the machines I tried. Oh, well, what the hell...
You've just re-implemented CDE.
:)
AGAIN.
It's the e(X)tremely (f)*cking (c)de-like (e)nvironment.
Again... congrats.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
I've been watching XFCE development from the sidelines for ~2 yrs.
The 4.2 releases I tried were extremely impressive, except for one little (big?) thing I couldn't get resolved.
I can't pull up the main menu or window list w/the keyboard.
Here's the baffling response I received on the XFCE forum.
I'm sure they'll get it figured out someday, but I'm a keyboard shortcut-aholic, so until they do, I'll be watching from the sidelines.
It seems to me that everyone working on GUIs for Linux has been stewing in their own juices for way too long.
I remember when I first saw Visix Galaxy, and was told by the Visix guys that they were aiming for matching the Macintosh GUI on UNIX. They were aiming far too low.
Now, some twenty years or so later, UNIX GUI developers are still aiming far too low. Matching MS windows is a complete waste of time. As long as you do that, your audience is people who hate MS, instead of people who love the alternative that you're providing.
Eazel fell short, CDE fell short, Gnome and KDE fall short, all because they're chasing a goal that isn't worth doing in the first place.
For any decent GUI to emerge on Linux and other generic UNIX systems, you'll have to aim for doing far better than Apple. (Not easy, but what worthwhile goal is?) This isn't an impossible goal: NeXT did it a few times, and Apple's been doing it with every release of their OS.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
It's really way too bad that all the documentation is useless until you actually understand how everything works, too.
Like, you can't follow the FAQ properly without having actually used xfce for a few days.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Yawn.
The third-party VDs work a bit better. I used WRQ's (part of Reflection X) for a while. But it still pretty much bites.
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
Changelog.
Though frankly, I think I don't like the new window-circulation-navigation GUI, hope a disable option will go into WPrefs.
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
oh, wait. You're talking about a WM for ...
GNU/linux, and not for QNX4 -- so sorry
P4 systems are going for $500
P4 systems are dirt cheap nowadays, but there's a big caveat for those migrating from low-end systems: you'll be surprised how much power those P4 eat. If you happen to live in California (or other parts of the world with very high taxes on utilities bills), you won't like your P4 for very long.
If you can live with lower speeds, go for a mini-itx based system, like the EPIA 5000 (roughly a 350MHz Celeron). Depending on the processor, some systems are entirely fanless, which is great if you like silent computers! You can build up a mini-itx system for as little as $300 ($80 for the mobo+cpu, $80 for a 512 MB PC133 RAM stick, $100 for a fanless ATX DC-DC converter + AC-Adapter, and the rest for a 2.5" harddrive).
Now to go back on topic: xfce runs perfectly fine on those low-end EPIA 5000 systems with FreeBSD and Linux.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Depends on what you mean by "good". I've personally switched to evilwm because of its very small memory usage and focus on being completely keyboard controllable. Another, slightly improved version of the same idea is papuawm.
Unix/Linux windowing managers are just not there yet. I just installed xfce and used it for a few minutes. It's nice but the problem I see is that (like other window managers) it doesn't really seem to help the user install and configure hardware. For instance, when I tried to play a music file a box comes up and says my sound card isn't configured. To me this is retarted. Now I have to go into a console, locate the modules, install the blah, blah, blah. Why can't these windowing systems focus more on making Linux easier by helping the user in this area? Even setting up a printer is still a pain.
Now I know that the initial installation of Linux should find and install my hardware but again I find that useless because, people do change their hardware or want to alter settings. Now what do you do? If you notice during a Windows install, it doesn't ask you for drivers. It puts in default drivers until you're ready to install the correct ones later on (ie. video).
Even setting up a network is a pain. Would it hurt so much to add a graphical wizard to configure things like IP address and DNS settings? Or perhaps allow the user to load a new driver for an added network card?
Why are Window Managers afraid to integrate utilities like lsmod and modprobe? Make the world a better place.
No amount of excuses. This problem exists and is caused by the window manager being a seperate program from the rest of the GUI.
Want proof: notice that you can move & resize those "skinned" MP3 and similar little programs quite well. That is because those programs draw all the pixels inside the window.
What you are seeing is the asynchronous updating of window borders and the window contents. This looks annoying and makes contents blink white or jiggle relative to the resize border. Double buffering does not fix it (it fixes blinking, which was certainly just as visible on Windows) since there is nothing to swap the border and interior double buffers at the same time. Speed is also not an issue because this has been true and constant despite a 100x speedup in the systems running X.
We need a new X window manager idea where the program is responsible for drawing everything inside the edge of the frame and handling all the events. Ie it draws the window border and handles drag & resize and raise. The "window manager" would just draw taskbars and present lists of running programs.
Yes a lot of people will panic that somehow differnt window borders will "confuse the user". This has to be solved for all the buttons inside the app anyway, so this is not a problem!
You said something?
I couldn't hear you. I didn't have SOUND SUPPORT for "events_asshole" in Xfce 4.x...
Its. Its. Its. Its.
It is filebrowser can't match konqueror/nautilus?
It is control center is useless?
It is program bar completely ignores menu?
IT IS "ITS," NOT "IT'S," WHICH IS "IT IS."
But straying back to on-topic, XFCE's file manager is fairly weak. I like the everything-in-one-tree design, which smacks of Mac OS, but that's about it. Nothing spectacular. The control center isn't so much useless as something that does exactly what it's supposed to -- configure XFCE. Dunno what you mean by the program bar, though.
I, for one, like XFCE. It's somewhere in the center of Gnome, KDE, and Fluxbox; it feels lighter than the first two, is visually clean, and is still fairly quick.
However, I could stand for some more flexibility in its interface.