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Microsoft Posts Record Earnings
sriram_2001 writes "Microsoft has just had a record quarter where their profits have doubled from the previous quarter. Total sales are at $10 billion, exceeding both internal and external expectations. Microsoft has attributed the rise in earnings to increased server sales (where *nix-based systems are supposed to be doing well) and more XBox units being sold. For a company that most Slashdotters would say is on the decline, Microsoft sure has weird financial results!" To put it in perspective, Microsoft's income is about the same as New York State receives in taxes - below California, and well above the other 48 states.
I thought the Gates Borg icon had a larger smile this morning. Now I know why.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I know vulnerability in their software probably generated these incorrect numbers.
© 2004 The SCO Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
everyone knows 2005 is the year of Linux. I don't care what their "profits" show, but we've got M$ exactly where we want them
Server Sales 18% up - thats quite a share :-). Especially if you regard how hardware sales of servers developed in the end of last year:
Hewlett-Packard: +21%
Dell: +28%
IBM: +36%
(Gartner quote)
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P243
There have to be quite a couple of linux- and other boxes, if Microsoft ist just +18%.
Anybody got more precise infos on actual sales of iron?
btw: Profits are also significantly up because of the cut in personell.
Details on different aspects of server sales: http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=C0_5_1
fools and their money are still being parted...
If I could, I'd destroy you all.
Microsoft has attributed the rise in earnings to increased server sales (where *nix-based systems are supposed to be doing well)
Maybe it's because more servers (both MS and !MS) have been sold this year so both were profitable...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
about two minutes ago I got sent this
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
1. Profit
I'm glad they're doing so well. And I'm glad Mac OSX and Linux are doing well too.
This is probably one reason why Microsoft is increasing office space (a good hint at increased hiring if they're making room for thousands of extra workers).
When will people stop wishing for the failure of others and start wishing for the success of their choosing?
Not to be Mr. Sour Grapes, but 8% growth (while very healthy) isn't historically that wonderful for MSFT. While its certainly safe to say that MSFT is doing well, I'd say its also safe to say that the days of explosive growth (as in early to mid 90's) are behind them.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
That's surprising, considering how much money I have donated to New York State in speeding tickets
I talk about stuff.
2. Profit
3. Profit
4. Profit!
(I'd write more, except that that Clippy keeps popping up saying "You appear to be writing a Microsoft business history. Do you want any help?"
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
But how do we know that this growth isn't just because we happen to be in a fairly prosperous time for the tech-market in general right now? These rates could take a turn for the worse in the next couple years. So this could all just be circumstantial.
What I'd like to see is a comparison of growth rates of major software companies. Even if Microsoft still comes out on top, at least the comparison would be relative to _something_.
I guess they are becoming ever more skillful at squeezing money out of contracts.
the day after MacWorld, Apple reported its best quarter ever.s .html/
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jan/12result
They obviously saved a load of cash by getting rid of that expensive code debugging department.
Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
It should also be said, that there's no Halo next quarter.
MSFT would love to make the claim that this is largely due to server software... but its Halo II... and that ain't happening again any time soon.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Many Unix systems are being migrated to either Windows or Linux. This is why both Linux and Windows sales can rise even though they're competitors.
I once attended a technical presentation about OSS, and I recalled some interesting facts.
Even during the most difficult of economic times, Microsoft has made billions.
Even when tech companies are in a slump, and businesses fold left and right, MS continues to rake in the dough.
So where does this money come from?
"IT CAME FROM YOU!" said the presenter.
Yes, while your companies are struggling to make a penny or two, MS just leeches off of you with their Windows licenses and forced upgrades. Face it, you get little in return for every new version of Windows you buy. Win2K->WinXP was just a hideous facelift.
Yet people still pay through the nose for Windows. It's inexplicable.
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
"We have to discern the enthusiasm over 7 percent growth versus 30 to 50 percent growth we had seen 10 years ago..."
You have to keep in mind that it really will get harder and harder to maintain high growth rates. Multi-million dollar markets are not big enough for M$ now. They will only enter larger (billion dollar) markets. Furthermore, without market and sales growth, their stock price simply cannot grow at a high rate. Think "mature company" not "young, fast, growing company" from here going forward.
How to Download YouTube Videos
This isn't another episode of funny accounting is it?
It is of sorts. Microsoft has so much cash in various accounts is is commonly known in the past that not was all accounted for as to make their profits more reasonable. With a 80-90% markup in North American markets does not hurt either.
Y2K was 4-5 years ago, and alot of the sales are upgrades from NT to W2000 or W2003. 1999 was a bubble sales year and after 4-5 years write down many companies will upgrade servers. Sales for this type are Y2K cyclical and will not last.
And if you don't plow the income into R&D to fix issues of security, usability and reliability then it is like milking a cow without feeding it.
Novell had such a bubble near it's end at the top as did Digital and IBM before them. History is just repeating itself.
...that 1.5 billion of the increase in profit is due to a 1.5 billion reduction in R&D. Wonder what long term effect halving the R&D budget will have on future MS technology?
I think its just a "star". The reason we're talking about it is because it was a "small moon" 20 years ago, so its growth has been stunning.
But now its another company. Its earnings are good, but not wonderful. Its products are good, but not wonderful. Its growth is good, but not wonderful. (So the black-hole / supernova thing probably doesn't apply). What it does have insane amounts of is cash. So its also not a star that's going to run out of fuel any time soon.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
The increase in earnings is a result of lower compensation per share- instead of offering a 2-to-1 split or dividends to their investors, Microsoft kept the cash on hand. At the same time, demand for Windows and Office products dropped.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
No, he's probably still grinning after yesterday, when Tony Blair lent him political legitimacy by sitting down to a world economic conference with him :/
I used to temp for MS from 1998-2000, I was a bus rider and the traffic was so bad from Redmond to Seattle that some employees would cruise the bus stops asking for a third person to qualify for the car pool lane. If you didn't take the HOV lane, it would add 45 to 90 minutes to your commute.
One time I got a ride with someone from accounting. The conversation must have been started about how they posted record profits that day and he was all giddy about it. He went on about how they withhold money back in some financial quarts in order to show off record results in another. I'm sure this has become familiar with many people over the 90s that once or twice a year MS would post record profits. The sole purpose would be to drive up the price of the stock. I laughed and asked him if it were legal, he said that not only was it legal, but very common in the industry. What he was doing wasn't any different from what other companies did during the dot com explosion.
I haven't temped there in a while, im not sure how things are in the labs or meeting rooms. Everyone benefits from a higher stock price, but im thinking this may be to keep their talent from jumping ship. Back in the mid to late 90s, a program manger or developer could be expected to work there for 7 years, then cash in all their stock options and retire at the ripe old age of 30. Its obviously not like that now because the stock price is lower and has been like that for several years. Investors really aren't that worried about the stock price, they are in it for the long term investment. But not the workers! Oh no, they want to work that 7 years and get the hell out of dodge and its the stock options that really keeps a MS employee working there. I've heard it from a few developers that if it wasn't for the stock options, they would quit their jobs in a heartbeat.
"Novell had such a bubble near it's end at the top as did Digital and IBM before them. History is just repeating itself."
There's one big difference. In each of those cases, Microsoft was there to burst the bubble and take away the market share. This time around there is no "other Microsoft".
Don't get me wrong, there's going to be competition. OSS continues to make strides in usability (Firefox), and Apple is finally selling a cheap computer. But I think, by best estimates, Apple/OSS could only take away 20% of MS's market share on the OS level.
When Novell collapsed, it was because Microsoft was rising. Same with IBM (fortunately for them, they reshaped their business from software to services). No one is going to grind Microsoft into the dirt anytime soon.
Thats not a safe assumption to make. A lot of organizations have site licenses for the software, so its easy for server sales to outpace OS sales.
While there may be an increase in Linux deployments, you can't infer that from any of this information.
This morning on Bloomberg News they specifically called out Halo 2 as being a very large contributor to the suprising jump in sales, as a large number of people (myself included) bought an X-Box specifically for Halo.
The dual facts that the XBox is the first modern console I've ever bought and that I've since bought ten other games is icing on the cake for them. There are a lot of people being pulled into modern consoles who were never tempted before by them.
Linux now occupies about 80% of my computing time but I am also the first guy all my friends and relatives asks to fix their Windows PCs when something goes wrong with them.
Sure, I point them in the direction of OSS Windows apps like Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, GIMP, etc. but if they feel they are productive using Windows, then who am I to tell them otherwise?
Remember that OSS does not have huge advertising budgets and getting the word out about killer OSS apps is a case of word-of-mouth on places like /. However, only a few people here are zealots - most of us don't like the fact that when the next Windows virus hits, we all suffer through slow Internet connections and people turning up on our doorsteps with broken PCs.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
WinNT to W2003 resulted in a huge upswing in MS spending in the later half of last year for my company. I was hoping for a decent rationalisation of why were were using WinNT in some of these cases (e.g. DNS??? file/print servers???), but as usually business managers have their backs up against the wall (e.g. procrastinate on spending) and just want to pay their way out of a situation when they have no choice.
And if you have to upgrade the OS (which results in lots of application regression testing, which is labour and the most expensive cost of the whole process), you may as well replace the server which is probably 4-5 years old at this point. So the upswing in server sales for the last quarter or two I would attribute to this WinNT retirement. WinNT upgrade = license fees, + labour + h/w....ironically the catalyst is probably the least expensive component in the equation.
At least, that's how it played out at the bank I work at...
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
Glad to hear it. But as an investor I would like to see their stock price tick up a bit with this news. Since their last stock split a few YEARS ago, the price has stayed in the $22-$28 range. Pretty flat performance.
My
From MS Versus:
"According to an ABC News 1/22/99 article by Michael Martinez, Microsoft's own internal auditor, a respected 30 year veteran and former partner of Deloitte and Touche, was fired in 1996 after informing management that their earnings manipulations were illegal and violations of the SEC and FASB laws. He was given the option to resign or be fired and later settled for $4 million after suing under the Federal Whistle Blowers Act."
"The single most lucrative product Microsoft sells is its own stock. Microsoft receives almost as much cash inflow from the stock market as it does by selling goods and services... Basically, Microsoft receives cash by issuing employee stock options, after which the company then receives billions of dollars in tax deductions from the IRS for doing so. Add in the warrants it sells on its own stock, and the company made over $5 billion off the stock market [for the] fiscal year end[ing] July 1999, tax-free. For comparison, its after-tax net income was only $7.8 billion. Microsoft may not be much in the programming department, but its accountants are impressive." (Landley, Rob. "Why Microsoft's Stock Options Scare Me." The Motley Fool 17 Feb 2000)
Developers: We can use your help.
It could just be the US $ inflating their sales. But even if these are real figures, their sales actually haven't increased much. Most of the profit is due to cutting costs. Taking inflation and exchange rates into account, we could turn this story around and say that their sales have decreased, and they've scaled back to compensate for this and expected future decreases.
You are right, this is largely a marketing problem. Given M$ marketing budget relative to Linux/GNU this isn't going to change soon.
However, the server component does indicate that
the lock-in aspect is incredibly important. This indicates that even for supposedly "Tech-savy" users, M$ produces a product that many view as good enough.
For those who believe that M$ profits need to begin to shrink to enhance world freedom, what this means is that 1) Linux has to get relatively much better at a technical level and 2) that Linux/GNU needs to make it clear to M$ users that they are at a disadvantage from a user perspective. Linux/GNU needs to identify and target specific classes of M$ users and demonstrate just what a competitive disadvantage means. If they can't of course, this may mean that some might have to admit that at least from a business perspective M$ has a better product.
Hype and pomposity will unlikely change the situation. Only concerted action and a redoubling of effort on the part of the Linux/GNU/FOSS community will change things.
Stop hyping and and blabbering about how great Linux/GNU/FOSS is relative to M$ in upity-tones and use that energy to do things that will make the community more attractive to the average Joe (and particularly average Joe businessman), who hasn't figured out that Linux/GNU/FOSS is the better deal for himself and for society. Its time to work more constructively with other members of our Linux/GNU/FOSS community.
Perhaps those of us who have submissions rejected should try sending them to Roland Piquepaille...
Record profits probably means a nice high stock price. So, let's all dump our MSFT shares. A flood of MSFT selling, the price will plummet! We can sink microsoft! Together, we can SLASHDOT-EFFECT MICROSOFT'S STOCK!
I must say having looked at some of the presentations on Longhorn, it does actually look very impressive *ducks*.
c on ceptvid/default.aspx
While Linux is still trying to compete to become the desktop of choice, Microsoft don't seem to be resting on their laurels and are making impressive strides in the application space.
Linux while it may be becoming a strong contender for the desktop still appears to be years behind in terms of applications when you look at what Longhorn is doing
http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/productinfo/
Doesn't look like Microsoft is going to be going anywhere in the near future.
I stopped paying the microsoft tax last year when I bought my first Mac.
And you started paying the Apple Tax.
What you just said is like this: "I stopped paying NY state taxes last year when I moved to NJ."
Most console hardware is only a loss leader at launch - eventually, they will get cheaper to produce, as the price of components goes down. Look at the cost of processors - you can get a Pentium 3 800 Mhz at Fry's for what, $20, if even that now? Look at Hard Drive prices - can you even find an 8 GB Hard drive on a shelf? Even if you could, what would you pay for it?
And you have to figure that MS is buying bulk, and is getting an even cheaper price. So, yes, I would image right now XBox hardware sales are giving MS profit.
And as far as Halo 2 goes... even if it comes out for the PC, I won't be buying it. Nor will I buy Age of Empires 3. (No, I will not pirate them either - I'm just not interested in owning or playing any Microsoft product.)
Besides - Burnout 3 is also a helluva lot of fun on my PS2.
In DEC's case, the influx of workstation-class machinery caused a weakening of the mini market. This weakening killed off all but the strongest mini maker (DEC). Customers fleeing from failing makers split themselves between DEC and the new workstation vendors, thus causing a boost in DEC's sales right before the crash of the whole mini market -- DEC peaked amongst the carnage of their market, then crashed spectacularly.
Sun's case was a repeat of the behavior. Sun's market had migrated from workstations to servers from the late 80s through the mid 90s. By the mid 90s, however, we were already seeing a market shift towards PCs acting as servers. As the server vendors' market weakened (still prior to the Internet boom) we saw diminishing workstation/server sales for many companies in that sector (e.g. HP, SGI). Meanwhile Sun's sales skyrocketed, again attributable to a split in the market where some of the people leaving failing vendors went to Sun.
Sun would have had a crash in the 1999 timeframe if it weren't for the internet boom, which dramatically increased demand for large servers. When the boom ended, however, so did Sun's fortunes -- very fast. You can see in Dell's sales where the market went.
Microsoft has been benefitting from the failing of the server vendors, same as Sun. (Though, really, the biggest winner in this is Dell.) If this were a normal hardware-only migration Microsoft would rapidly capture upwards of 80% of he market and be dominant until the next hardware shift. But it's not normal because this is the first transition where the software is decoupled from the hardware.
Microsoft should have won by default, with customers shifting from server-class systems to PCs as customers went with the default option of Windows servers. And, in fact, Microsoft did extremely well for the first several years of the transition when there really wasn't much competition in the PC space.
Linux has thrown a huge wrench in the works. It's maturing very nicely and offers the huge win over Windows in that it's both cheaper for licenses and especially for migration.
If there's any one thing we can count on in this industry it's that the cheapest thing that gets the job done wins (which I've been saying so long now I call it Jim's Law). Until Linux came along the cheapest thing was Windows servers. Now it's not. The market impact of that is going to be phenomenal.
In a typical market transition you can expect more or less equal boosting of the various competitors in the market as people flee dying companies. But in a typical market transition there is not much price difference between the competitors -- usually within 10%, as everyone attempts to maximize the market opportunity.
Linux turns that on its head by offering a scale of prices starting at zero (no support) through prices that are more or less competitive with Microsoft's offerings (full support). That gives Linux a significant market advantage.
I expect we'll see a major market move towards mid-priced systems (some support, not "enterprise class" support, call it the $500 price point). Microsoft is trying hard to push for higher prices in that market just as Linux is depressing them.
If things continue the way they are going I would expect Microsoft to peak in the next one to three years at perhaps 65% of the market (by units) as the migration from server-class systems to PCs-as-servers completes, and then fall over the following five years to about 30% of the market as people migrate to more cost-effective Linux solutions.
But Microsoft won't take this laying down, they'll start reducing prices to match those of the midrange Linux products (more on that in a minute), to whatever degree they can afford. As such I think we're going to see the products come very close to price parity and we'll see Windows stabilize at 40-45% market share with
jim frost
jimf@frostbytes.com
It's odd to compare Microsoft's revenue to tax revenue... but consider the following:
Everyone who paid Microsoft a dime did so voluntarily, while people who paid the state of New York did so to stay out of jail.
Amazing magic tricks
Microsoft is majorly profiting because I'd say because of the explosion of broadband. With more people accessing the internet (running XP, no doubt) the servers increase. That's a profit.m /fact s/default.mspx)
As more and more people get online, more servers will be required, and with anti-Linux propaganda at the ready, Microsoft can take advantage of small business sans IT.
(http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversyste
That being said, I'm sure Linux groups (Red Hat, etc.) have sold more servers also.
As previously mentioned, more and more computers are being sold. The vast majority are dell-whorish mass-produced Windows XP computers.
Case in point, I'm at my school library using brand new IBMs running Windows XP. As long as schools, libraries, individual users, etc, continue to buy desktops, Microsofts profits will continue to rise.
On a side note, the computer next to me just crashed.
> virii
The word you are looking for is "viruses".
Be aware that FireFox won't harm Microsoft's profits, so long as those people are running Firefox on Windows. In a way, perhaps Firefox for Windows is harming Linux. Get those users onto Linux & Firefox, and then there is something to be joyous over.
I have not looked at the 10Q yet. But right after I worked there, Microsoft started very agressive cost-cutting. Benefits, etc. Even my whole department was eventually moved to India. I seriously doubt that this is primarily due to increased sales (MS usually only has notably large increases with the release of products) but rather to these cost cutting measures.
Otherwise, it would seem like an artifact of accounting (revenue posted one quarter but not earned until this quarter, etc).
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
For a company that most Slashdotters would say is on the decline, Microsoft sure has weird financial results!
Yeah. People were laughing at Alan Greenspan for a number of few years before that bubble burst too. I guess some of us silly Slashdotters just don't "get" the new Microsoft economy. It's ok though, you just go ahead now and keep putting your money there. After all, what could be wrong with Microsoft's accounting practices?
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Some good news... I just handed out three copies of KNOPPIX_V3.7-2004-12-08 today to co-workers and its still only 8:03 in the morning.
One of them just had his hard drive (or something) fail to boot (could not find OS). It's not clear yet what whether the drive is any good, but if is just corrupted OS files ==> Knoppix to the rescue!
Another was complaining that Linux doesn't like his older laptop with one of the first GeForce-2Go chipsets ==> GamesKnoppix-3.7-0.1-EN will prompt you about loading load the proprietary nVidia drivers on boot. Hey, it might work! You just have to remember when you're trying to type "yes" at the prompt that although it is the "English" version it still thinks you've got a German keyboard at boot so the Y and the Z buttons are swapped.
Finally, there's a fellow who has been thinking about trying GNU/Linux on his old Windoze hardware. So I burnt another copy of Knoppix and handed it to him.
Ahh... I've got a warm fuzzy feeling.
Now if I could just get back that copy of _Knoppix_Hacks_ that I lent to my neighbor so I could lend it out to someone else.
Religion is poison to rationality, and we lose sight of that at our own peril. -- Lurker2288
Okay, the REAL reason why Microsoft has posted such gains is that it is no longer supporting the NT4 operating system. Enterprises that want to have continued support have been forced to purchase Windows 2003 Server upgrades to maintain support.
Microsoft touts this as "high demand" for their server platform, when in reality, its a strong-arm move to keep their customers locked in to their platform, support and licensing model.
Most enterprises likely had little choice but to upgrade. It was the easier choice in my company, despite my loathing of the Microsoft business model (NOTE: I said *easier* choice, not the *right* choice). It would be far more difficult to migrate to a non-Microsoft platform when there are well known dependencies on MS technology.
Unfortunatly, the closest thing related to an IT architecture strategy around my company looks remarkably like the Microsoft technology roadmap.
I need a new job...
"There *IS* no patch for stupidity" -www.sqlsecurity.com
This doesn't mean they're attempting to ditch every product Microsoft makes, not by a long shot.
The average, non-technical person uses Windows because that is what came installed on their machine, along with some version of MS Office. If you look at the whole landscape, you'll notice that most people are really not dependent on MS for anything other than Windows and Office. In fact, you could even say that they are only dependent on Windows *because* of Office.
Beating MS has absolutely nothing to do with "what people are used to," because that is always changing anyhow. (ex. compare Win98 to XP) It has everything to do with replacing or obsoleting the need for Office. And beat them we will.
Although another interesting factor is your note that 25% use Macs. It's interesting because this represents the next generation of users. If that number is true, it is a huge indication that people are really fed up with MS nonsense and are even willing to pay more for an alternative -- even an alternative that is far more different than Windows than Linux + KDE.
Microsoft's $10b is a lot, but it's nowhere near New York.
antipaucity