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What Do You Charge for Tech Support?
war3rd asks: "Years ago I used to offer tech support for friends and family (for free), and ended up doing it for everyone they and I knew. I cut it out because it was taking too much of my time, but I've been getting more and more requests lately due to everything from viruses, spam, spyware, as well as aging PC with Windows 98 and ME (oog!) on them still. I was thinking of saying OK to requests that are convenient, but I want to make it worth my while. So I ask, I'm sure that some of you out there must do this, what is the general going rate for basic user tech support (i.e. getting someone's home machine cleaned up and back to normal email & web browsing capability)?"
"I assume that there is probably some range in different parts of the country, but I'm curious anyway. And let's just assume that I live in the Tri-State area around New York City (can you say 'overpriced?'). I figure I should be able to pull in enough to feed my ever-present desire for better hardware, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a jerk and gouge people who should be able to trust me with their machines. So what to other Slashdot users charge for their tech support services?"
If you're doing it for people you know personally, for instance, your grandpa, sister-in-law or your mum's old schoolmate, in a sense that people are seeking your help as a favor, then I don't think it is easy to ask for something in return.
However, if you really get so many tech support requests, you may consider setting up a side business, that way you have made yourself commercially available and people know they need to pay for your service.
If they don't want to pay, they know not to call you. If they do call you but not expecting to pay, you can give good excuses like you're so busy with your new business that you can only visit them "later" (so much later that they solved the problem themselves).
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Well, someone tell me what they think of mine (note, I don't have any certifications [yet]),
$50 for the first hour of work. $30 for each addition hour of work I do for them. Usually I resolve the issues in the first hour. If the issues are more prone to fully formatting a box, I usually take it home and charge them $50 for my time at home.. since honestly, formatting / installing drivers takes time but not enough time to waste their money.
If it is something like their computer doesn't work (and its rather stupid) I usually just ask for gas money + $20. I usually always work for a friend, or a friends friend.. I don't do professional calls (e.g. companies) unless, again, are small and a friends company.
Eric
P.S. I used to do the whole "$50 to wipe it, $20 to install hardware, $15 to install software" thing, but when I started dealing with friends of friends, I upped it.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Nothing less than $300...regardless of the problem.
My rule is that I will fix friends and family members computers if I happen to have the time and they clearly appreciate my help and don't see it as my obligation. If they offer to pay me, I'll ask for a dinner sometime or just a case of Bass beer.
Trust me, taking money is more hassle than it will be worth.
THIS ACCOUNT IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED/RETARDED.
If they balk, then they can go somewhere else. It's just too time-consuming.
You couldn't pay me enough!
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
In my professional life I've charged two hourly rate: $100/hr and $50/hr. I can't ask Ma and Pa Rancher/Farmer for that. I would think that undercutting what the area computer shops would charge would be acceptable. When I did service work at an Apple Specialist shop we charged a $45 bench fee for all computers and a $75 bench fee for all laser printers, just to take a look at them. Then our hourly rate was $50/hr. The markup on parts was anywhere for 40% to 200%. That was in '98. If I charged $15 or $20 an hour and maybe something for gas if I had to drive more than 5 miles or so, wouldn't that be agreeable with these rural customers? They'd have to drive 40 miles one way to get to the nearest town with a computer shop. With gas prices the way they are, that adds up fast.
One thing I don't hesitate to do is recommend buying a new computer. Most of these rural folks have ancient systems, at least by today's standards. If the machine is still useable and they understand that they can't run new software on the old machine, I'll help them fix it, even if it's replacing hardware like a bad HD. I highly recommend they replace the machine if they are trying to run new software on a circa '97 Windows 95 machine. It's just too old. I also never recommend the buying computers at the area Ma and Pa computer stores. I always recommend they buy from a larger company with an established reputation, support and warranty system, and will be here next month or next year when the machine has problems. I recommend Dell or Gateway to those people. I tell them about the back to school specials and help them find a system that fits their needs. I figure that's a much better suggetion than to tell them to go to Best Buy or CompUSA and pick up the special of the week. Sure the individual piece of hardware has a warranty, but if Ma and Pa Computer Shop closes up, they're not going to be able to find anyone else willing to figure out what's under warranty and what's not on an old machine. Thoughts on this?
I always set the folks up with some of the better pieces of free software like Mozilla or Firefox, Thunderbird, AntiVir, AdAware, and others. I tell Windows to auto-update without user interaction (something I'd never do on my own machine, but something that necessary on a novice's computer IMHO).
I'm not sure what the best price range is but I know one thing. We can't afford to do it for free all the time.
You should certainly charge your friends friends, just like say, a doctor, would do. But dont charge your really close friends and family. Say 'Sorry i just dont have the time, a job like that will take an entire day' or something if it's a big job. If you start charging money from your friends they'll think you're an ass, no matter how justified you are.
$499, but that's for a one-time fix. No more spyware, no more viruses.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Business Relationship only- $30/hr or $100 for Virus/Spyware Detection & elimination flat rate. $5 off the hourly rate or $25 off the flat rate to family and friends. Seems to be just about right- and it's less than CompUSA charges for the same service, so it's competitive.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
With home users, you can have 1,000 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 1,000 tyrants with 1,000 problems who if they write you a check for a nickel will think you owe them your first born.
With mid-size companies, you can have 100 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 100 tyrants with 100 problems who if they write you a check for $100 will think you owe them your first born.
With large-size companies, you can have 5 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 5 people who don't give a rats ass what you do or don't do for them and who if they write you a check for $100,000 will think it's OK if you don't return their call for a few weeks.
This is a slight exaggeration but the basic tenet is true. Don't focus on small fish or you'll be sorry.
I'm a big tall mofo.
of 10 things to check/do before asking me for help (anti-virus, spyware, windowsupdate, etc...). Most stuff gets taken care of in this step.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
That way no one can work on it, and you're safe from further support calls. I like it!
Or 40 dollars per visit. First off, this is a fraction of what Best Buy would charge for similiar service, secondly you deserve it, and lastly they will take your advice seriously if they know its going to cost them 40-50 dollars to fix another spyware/virus infestation. If you charge next to nothing they'll ignore your advice, treat you like some idiot savant who doesnt know his own value, and pester you with phonecalls because they have not learned proper PC hygeine.
Sure, you will lose customers this way, but those are customers you'd want to lose anyway. The cheap naggers who are unwilling to learn anything aren't worth the trouble.
A pound of flesh, no more or less, not even to the twentieth part.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I get asked this all the time. I do not charge family, or friends but I let them All know I do this kind of work as a side business and please refer people to me. This is an easy way to clue them in that you will not fix there friends machines for free.
However. Unless they have a specific software issue that requires windows I set them on the path to getting a mac next time around. If they cheap out and buy another PC, I simply do not help them, or charge or barter.
My rate is $65 minimum 2 hours. If its a business I charge more. I do not charge for phone calls or email support but when I am called out I always round up and they have allready called me a few times.
I do not fix win95, 98 or ME. I will only install a fresh purchased version of XP if the machine can't take it then I walk them through getting a Mac Mini or a Dell if they must have windows for something. Most people seem to want more power any how, and a lot of my calls start with I just got this digital camera.
I'm glad somebody said it.
Helping for free leaves them indebted to you instead of you to them. It's a great way to generate goodwill, as well as a nifty way to receive an unexpected favor later. I'd say it's better to have a positive accounts-receivable column, even if you never see a dime.
Taking money is opening up a can of worms. Blood is thicker than water... but the one thing that's thicker than blood is MONEY. People have this attitude (and sometimes rightly so) that as long as they're paying you, they have a leash on you... they then bother you/demand things from you, often out of proportion to the amount of money exchanged. That's a sticky situation to get into with family, friends, and coworkers. Do you want some kind of disgruntled attitude/tension between you and your friends? I don't.
Just by doing it for free, I've received all sorts of gifts in kind. Those gifts have included computer hardware, gift certificates, beer, lunch, etc, etc. I NEVER solicit such gifts, and I always make an effort to turn them down. That may sound odd, but I actually enjoy working on computers, and my day job already involves helping others (I'm an ER physcian, so I already see plenty of no-pay/self-pay/uninsured patients for free; doing the same to the occasional computer just doesn't bother me that much)
Then there's the simple act of doing something nice for people... sometimes that's its own reward.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
" Gas, grass or ass,
nobody rides for free! "
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You should be able to trade your time for their time. Particularly if you can find people that have skills you don't have.
I know people who can easily fix a leaking pipe or lend me some decent power tools, but have no clue about computers... getting on their good side can save you a bunch of money at a later point.
Rule: Once you accept money for a service, the relationship changes. I fix computers for the odd friend. I do not charge.
I fix computers for customers who I do charge.
So what about the compost?
I like to garden to relax. I also maintain a triple bay compost area at the back of the section. I generate more compost than I can use. I started offering bags of compost to friends for free.
Some months later, my wife pointed out that the bags I purchased to put the compost in, had cost $200. Works out to about
I starting asking for a coin donation for the compost to cover the cost of the bag, I would explain to the people.
In the first 2 weeks of "selling" 5 bags, I recieved 5 "feedbacks". Previously I recieved none over 2 years, over maybe 100 bags given away.
Comments I recieved were:"
- "But I bought a bag last time, I don't have to pay for another?"
- Recieved a call from the wife of a customer, saying there was a milk bottle cap in the compost. Could she bring it back and get another bag of compost.
- "I don't have any change, can I give it to you later?"
- "Oh, thats a bit expensive. You can get twice the amount of compost from the garden centre.". ( I later learn that thats per bucket, and the liners you can buy for the cars Trunk(US), boot(UK, Aus, NZ) cost $2.00.
I have gone back to giving it away.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Exploitation begins at home.
I'd agree that $20/hour is exceptionally low, and suggest that $50 be looked at as low as well. A few perspectives:
1. cost model: If you were doing this as a living, you'd understand that you'd have a portion of your time that you could actually be out billing, vs. a portion you're unable to bill. Researching things, fixing things for people that end up not paying, fixing things that you goofed up the first time and don't bill for the second time, and being idle are all unbillable times. While I've seen models where employeers pretend they can have people 80% or higher billable, this places great stress on the system long-term. At 50%, you're going to have to factor the downtime. So, if you want to make $50,000/year, at 50% billable (on 50 weeks worked), that's 1,000 billable hours a year = $50/hour (easy math). But you might find additional expenses you need to include, like taxes and social security (oops! there goes a huge chunk), health insurance, general liability insurance (if you do this, I'll guarantee you'll eventually have someone sue you for something assuming you have deeper pockets than they do) current and legal licenses to software, a new laptop every year (they get beat to hell traveling), Internet connectivity, cell phone bill, etc. - and you're suddenly up over $60/hour.
2. comparative model: My plumber in my small town charges $70/hour. I'd argue that my nonstop education in technology (vs. his rather static field) deserves at least $10/hour more, not to mention the college education appropriate for it. $80/hour is my "plumbing rate" in the Midwest. Fixing PCs or running cables = plumbing.
3. service model: If you're able to do much more than "computer plumbing", charge appropriately for the job. I'm a certified security analyst, so I charge $155/hour when doing assessments (cheap actually). I charge $125/hour for Cisco engineering.
4. "bill" your gratis accounts: I take care of some little old ladies and relatives in town. I let them know (and occasionally will print a courtesy invoice with the actual charge and credit applied) how much it really costs. I ask them to donate to a charity - the church ladies all do so to our church, and church has new gravel covering the parking lot, utility bills paid and other important things from a tiny bit of computer work from me.
The best thing you can do is enforce that the computer world is a business and a profession. I encountered a "do it for free" attitude when I moved here due to a 20-year-old hack that did so. When you give it away without any cost, you make it worthless and cause people to think what we do is not legitimate. Electricians, plumbers and other technicians all have to feed their families and pay their bills. Neglect your car and demand free repairs, and you'll suffer the consequences. Computer techs need to help the public understand their PC is no different than their car in this manner.
....whitebox shops around here that do "computer fixin'" which is usually just cleaning up borked windows installs from bad internet mojo, they are getting around (all similar, close enough) 60 dollars an hour for that service. No flat rate I have seen unless it's just a complete wipe and reinstall. If the customer wants all or most of their data intact, they tote the freight for at least an hour or no fixy for cheap. So there's an answer from bubbaland.
And that's why you won't see windows leave the market anytime soon, because this is the LEAST money being made by IT "professionals" off of windows being on almost everyones computer. The LEAST amount. "They" -any random windows IT professional, may claim publically they want excellent products, reality is that windows being as goobered up as it is is a hundred billion dollar (some large @55 number) make-work phony baloney business now,it is designed to perpetuate a near functional but never quite finished by design and intent highly lucrative perpetual cash cow, with thousands of people (or millions no idea really)now grown dependent and complacent on that easy money income. It's not a legit business anymore, it's a crime racket as far as I am concerned, a silent cartel of cooperating profiteers, large,medium and small sizes. From MS itself to the local computer herdsman, it's moo baby moo gimmee the money. Ha!
There's little to no profit in selling computers that work and don't break. Just like cars to beat that old dead analogy horse one more time. The hardware NEEDS to crap out soon after warranty and the software has to be in a perpetual state of beta ware, although it's all "licensed to use for your economic and sanity inconvenience" as a finished product. And that's why there is NO warranty with consumer software as well.
So, sock it to those folks who absolutely insist on using windows, that's exactly what it's designed for, to make you money. It's secondary reason is to function as software, but primarily, it's a cash cow, milk it. Charge em.
Yes I am cynical, no I don't use windows on the intarweb, never. I use linux or mac. I have a few old boxes and a laptop that have windows on them, but there's a decent airgap between them and the WWW, not that it isn't possible, it's that I simply don't care about trying to make windows function on the web, it's like bolting a wing on your yugo and applying flame stickers. Waste of time, IMO. I have never had any desire to even much "learn" windows because it became obvious as all get out with win95 what the scam was going to be, perpetual beta ware that you will be charged for.
Is that you must drink the beer while doing the support. Preferably slam two or three before getting started ("I just need to warm up before I get to work"). Make sure to keep the person you are doing the support for in the room with you by constant conversation.
When you start to work on the computer do so in a distracted manner - keep talking and babbling while glancing back and forth at the screen. Horror stories about computer problems you've fixed (real or imagined) are good, but especially comments about things you've done that have fucked up computers. "Yeah I used to think anti-static wrist wraps were for pansies, then there was the time I blew out an entire system from one little spark. Damn, over $1000 in damages, just from my stupidity. Oh, were did I put that anti-static strap? Must have left it at home, oh well, no biggie."
Also make sure to make comments like "Whoops! Hmmm, well didn't really need that anyway.", "So you do shopping on the Interweb? Man you should change your password, that one is too easy to hack." "What are these pictures of? analdogsex.com? I didn't know you leaned that way." "Jesus! You've got more spyware than the Kremlin in here!"
If you are really mean you can also play some nice practical jokes while you are there. You know the stuff - make hardcore porn auto launch when you log in, switch the sounds out for farts. Whatever floats your boat.
Odds are you can do the tech support blind, deaf and drunk anyway but the nice thing is you get to entertain yourself, terrify your friend and quite possibly next time your friend will take the machine to a shop instead of calling you to fix it.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I have been a unix admin and currently am a network engineer. I don't "do windows" professionally. Still, my dad often calls for help. Once I pointed out that as a professor he has a university IT department he can call for help with their computers. His response?
"Listen, I didn't pay for 4 years of college to get lip outta you. Now shut up and answer the fucking question."
Yeah, Dad, I love you too...
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
You have it right on the head. I do consulting as a part of my job for busienss and individuals. Anyone who I don't know, or who knows one of my clients or whatnot falls under this category. They get charged by the hour or flat-rate (quoted price) for specific tasks- usually the first. Your job is to make sure it works as expected when you leave and after a reboot. Always restart the machine and test that it loads as expected and what you want to work works fine. That way they can't say you didn't fix it. At that point, your obligation is done. They can screw it up all the want (and at least you know how to fix it).
If the work includes a lot of sitting around (ie: installing WinXP SP2 on three machines- setting them up and drinking coffee for 45 minutes), I'll sometimes charge less or give a good deal or underestimate time if I'm not in a rush... Usually this is if they are good company or if I kinda know them or can relate to them so we sit and chat while it happens. Good hospitality = good mood = good deal.
Now there is family, friends, and neighbours, and the occasional friends of friends. These are really all free. In the end Karma works for you and you end up even in the end. There are people who will invite you to dinner, give you a few beers for your time, neighbours who will help you lift couches up flights of stairs, and the whole deal. My neighbour sees our 3-car driveway not plowed (our service hadn't come) and decided to clean 3/4 of a foot of snow off our driveway while he was doing his... And for 45 minutes of my time I'm going to charge this guy? Hell no.
Even if they have the impression that you're a genius, it means they'll recommend you to their friends or co-workers or businesses which you can then charge... But you don't want to accept money. If it's a buddy, simple words like 'you get the first round of drinks' works wonders- it undervalues your time at $3-5, but it's the gesture that counts... or have them get dinner.
So the rule? Family, friends, neighbours, family friends are usually free unless you're pretty distanced from them (greater the distance and if it's a lot of work (half day for example) then charge a little bit). Businesses, people you don't know, friends of friends of friends- charge them.
PS: Be careful throwing out prices. I've had some people come to me due to increased separation saying 'but you charged by brother-in-law XXX and us XXX'=- Nobody appreciates that. Set your rates. If you want to bring them down for someone, discount as a courtesy or say 'special price of...' so that they know it's just because you like them. It's easy to bring a price down, but not to bring it up. A prohibitive price will weed out those who are unqualified and a waste of your time anyway.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
This post has superb timing. I just gave up on helping people with their computer problems. I simply do not have the patience nor the time to put up with the majority of these ungrateful bastards.
.. No that's not happening again. It's as if I went to his house to clean his car and got blamed for his dog being constipated! Numerous times I've lent a hand to people who had computer problems to only be taken advantage of and my time wasted. Most of these people have no respect of other's people's time. They call me late at night, while at work, very early in the morning, etc, etc.
Last Saturday, my dad asked me to help out a friend of his with his computer setup as well as teach his wife about the internet. Sounds good. I went to the guy's house, and noticed that their "high speed internet" was really not that high at all. I was getting 5KB/sec maximum from all kinds of servers. I was told the provider they were using were one of those mom and pops isps with a cheap $20/month deal for their "broadband" package. Fair enough, we could still work with that. Right a way I noticed that their computer was already full of spyware, and also noticed they were using IE. I explained to them, in very simple terms, the benefits of using a web browser that has better security. I recommended Firefox. I installed it for them and told them to give it a try. They liked it. I then proceeded to explain to them the basics of downloading, chatting on their msn account, etc. By the time I left, everything seemed ok, they seemed happy to know a bit more but I did tell them to look into their slow connection since I know you can get a better connection for the same amount of price.
The next day I get a called from the guy's wife telling me that her "list" doesn't display. I had no clue what she was talking about. After about 10 minutes of trying to figure out what they were talking about, I realized they were talking about their msn contacts list. I asked her if she was having problems signing in. She said yes, "the little green men are not dancing". I figured it might be a problem with msn. I told her to try Firefox and see if she can get anywhere. Nothing, she couldn't get the default homepage. I asked her if she had touched anything else on the computer but she said no, so I told her that it is most likely a problem with their Internet Service Provider and that they should call them and ask them if there are any problems in the area. This woman starts telling me that maybe I broke her computer by pressing the wrong "button" but she was still going to call the tech support people to see what is going on.
The next day at work while on the phone with one of the company's clients, I keep on an incoming call. It was the guy from the previous day. The person wants to know what happened to his computer, he says the new program reset his settings and now he doesn't have internet. He says it is not a problem with the Internet provider but rather the new program that I installed (Firefox). After 30minutes of trying to explain that it is nearly impossible for the new program to just go and start messing around with the internet settings I gave up. The guy is still blaming me for his broken internet. So, not only do I get disturbed while at work but I get blamed on breaking their computer after I went out of my way to help these people?
Their #1 excuse is that they don't have time to learn and would rather be told in a few minutes what to do. Well guess what, it doesn't work that way. If you don't have time to learn, maybe you shouldn't be using a computer! If you don't have time to learn, and can't try out things on your own and unless you are prepared to fork out $ for someone to baby-sit your computer, you should really consider NOT using a computer! It is a complex piece of technology that has a learning curve that you should be prepare to climb, it just doesn't come to you in one day. Just like anything else new in life, it takes time!.
What would you guys do? Until I can find a better approac
[alk]
I used to help people with PC issues.
Now I generally just push people away who have issues unless they have Macs, and I gently point them that way if it seems like it would be good for them.
I have to admit I did help one guy with a Windows laptop track down a memory problem (using a Linux LiveCD of course)... so I guess I draw the line at fixing Windows, but am OK helping a litte with pure hardware issues.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A hot dinner usually does it for me.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife