Slashdot Mirror
What Do You Charge for Tech Support?
war3rd asks: "Years ago I used to offer tech support for friends and family (for free), and ended up doing it for everyone they and I knew. I cut it out because it was taking too much of my time, but I've been getting more and more requests lately due to everything from viruses, spam, spyware, as well as aging PC with Windows 98 and ME (oog!) on them still. I was thinking of saying OK to requests that are convenient, but I want to make it worth my while. So I ask, I'm sure that some of you out there must do this, what is the general going rate for basic user tech support (i.e. getting someone's home machine cleaned up and back to normal email & web browsing capability)?"
"I assume that there is probably some range in different parts of the country, but I'm curious anyway. And let's just assume that I live in the Tri-State area around New York City (can you say 'overpriced?'). I figure I should be able to pull in enough to feed my ever-present desire for better hardware, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a jerk and gouge people who should be able to trust me with their machines. So what to other Slashdot users charge for their tech support services?"
If you're doing it for people you know personally, for instance, your grandpa, sister-in-law or your mum's old schoolmate, in a sense that people are seeking your help as a favor, then I don't think it is easy to ask for something in return.
However, if you really get so many tech support requests, you may consider setting up a side business, that way you have made yourself commercially available and people know they need to pay for your service.
If they don't want to pay, they know not to call you. If they do call you but not expecting to pay, you can give good excuses like you're so busy with your new business that you can only visit them "later" (so much later that they solved the problem themselves).
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Well, someone tell me what they think of mine (note, I don't have any certifications [yet]),
$50 for the first hour of work. $30 for each addition hour of work I do for them. Usually I resolve the issues in the first hour. If the issues are more prone to fully formatting a box, I usually take it home and charge them $50 for my time at home.. since honestly, formatting / installing drivers takes time but not enough time to waste their money.
If it is something like their computer doesn't work (and its rather stupid) I usually just ask for gas money + $20. I usually always work for a friend, or a friends friend.. I don't do professional calls (e.g. companies) unless, again, are small and a friends company.
Eric
P.S. I used to do the whole "$50 to wipe it, $20 to install hardware, $15 to install software" thing, but when I started dealing with friends of friends, I upped it.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Nothing less than $300...regardless of the problem.
My rule is that I will fix friends and family members computers if I happen to have the time and they clearly appreciate my help and don't see it as my obligation. If they offer to pay me, I'll ask for a dinner sometime or just a case of Bass beer.
Trust me, taking money is more hassle than it will be worth.
THIS ACCOUNT IS OFFICIALLY RETIRED/RETARDED.
If they balk, then they can go somewhere else. It's just too time-consuming.
You couldn't pay me enough!
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
Right now I'm going to college and I don't have time for a real job so I work here in the IT department as a federal work study intern. It's pretty silly, because I have as much experience as anyone here, and more in some cases, but that's the way the cookie crumbled. I only charge people $35/hr because this is an academic environment and people (outside of administration) are not wealthy. However, I charge the same amount for the time I spend driving somewhere, which mostly means people just bring me their systems and I work on them at home. It works out well for me, because I can make some extra money on the weekends and so on. I don't do too much work like this though, because even at that price it's more than a lot of them can afford.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
$60 an hour for regular users.
$90 an hour for large networks.
$300 an hour, if you're family.
Not having to waste all my time on family freebies, priceless.
Go ahead and call me unreliable; reliable is just a synonym for predictable.
In my professional life I've charged two hourly rate: $100/hr and $50/hr. I can't ask Ma and Pa Rancher/Farmer for that. I would think that undercutting what the area computer shops would charge would be acceptable. When I did service work at an Apple Specialist shop we charged a $45 bench fee for all computers and a $75 bench fee for all laser printers, just to take a look at them. Then our hourly rate was $50/hr. The markup on parts was anywhere for 40% to 200%. That was in '98. If I charged $15 or $20 an hour and maybe something for gas if I had to drive more than 5 miles or so, wouldn't that be agreeable with these rural customers? They'd have to drive 40 miles one way to get to the nearest town with a computer shop. With gas prices the way they are, that adds up fast.
One thing I don't hesitate to do is recommend buying a new computer. Most of these rural folks have ancient systems, at least by today's standards. If the machine is still useable and they understand that they can't run new software on the old machine, I'll help them fix it, even if it's replacing hardware like a bad HD. I highly recommend they replace the machine if they are trying to run new software on a circa '97 Windows 95 machine. It's just too old. I also never recommend the buying computers at the area Ma and Pa computer stores. I always recommend they buy from a larger company with an established reputation, support and warranty system, and will be here next month or next year when the machine has problems. I recommend Dell or Gateway to those people. I tell them about the back to school specials and help them find a system that fits their needs. I figure that's a much better suggetion than to tell them to go to Best Buy or CompUSA and pick up the special of the week. Sure the individual piece of hardware has a warranty, but if Ma and Pa Computer Shop closes up, they're not going to be able to find anyone else willing to figure out what's under warranty and what's not on an old machine. Thoughts on this?
I always set the folks up with some of the better pieces of free software like Mozilla or Firefox, Thunderbird, AntiVir, AdAware, and others. I tell Windows to auto-update without user interaction (something I'd never do on my own machine, but something that necessary on a novice's computer IMHO).
I'm not sure what the best price range is but I know one thing. We can't afford to do it for free all the time.
Charge what your time is worth to you. If you're not sure, and you have a day job, determine what you make in an hour at your day job and use that as a frame of reference. Generally, I use a sliding scale. I charge friends & family members little or nothing, or work out a barter arrangement, depending on the severity of the problem and how much time and effort I think fixing the problem will require. If I get a referral from a friend, I charge $15 just for the hour or less it takes to drive to the client's place and assess the problem, then I come up with an estimate of how long it will take me to fix the problem, multiply that by the hourly rate I've chosen for myself, and give the client a flat fee estimate. Generally, clients prefer a flat fee to an hourly rate quote because they know up front how much fixing the problem will cost; quoting your hourly rate leaves them feeling a little up in the air as to what the total cost will be. It also forces me to discipline myself to (a) come up with an accurate estimate, and (b) do my best to finish the work in a time frame as close to the estimate as I can. If I take longer to fix the problem than I estimated, I know I needed to pad more; if I take less time, I know I needed to pad less. If I am able to fix the problem in significantly less time than I estimated, I usually reduce the cost of the final bill - it makes for happier clients, which often translates to more referrals.
You should certainly charge your friends friends, just like say, a doctor, would do. But dont charge your really close friends and family. Say 'Sorry i just dont have the time, a job like that will take an entire day' or something if it's a big job. If you start charging money from your friends they'll think you're an ass, no matter how justified you are.
$499, but that's for a one-time fix. No more spyware, no more viruses.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Business Relationship only- $30/hr or $100 for Virus/Spyware Detection & elimination flat rate. $5 off the hourly rate or $25 off the flat rate to family and friends. Seems to be just about right- and it's less than CompUSA charges for the same service, so it's competitive.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
With home users, you can have 1,000 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 1,000 tyrants with 1,000 problems who if they write you a check for a nickel will think you owe them your first born.
With mid-size companies, you can have 100 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 100 tyrants with 100 problems who if they write you a check for $100 will think you owe them your first born.
With large-size companies, you can have 5 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 5 people who don't give a rats ass what you do or don't do for them and who if they write you a check for $100,000 will think it's OK if you don't return their call for a few weeks.
This is a slight exaggeration but the basic tenet is true. Don't focus on small fish or you'll be sorry.
I'm a big tall mofo.
I'll fix your computer if you babysit my kids next Friday.
of 10 things to check/do before asking me for help (anti-virus, spyware, windowsupdate, etc...). Most stuff gets taken care of in this step.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
That way no one can work on it, and you're safe from further support calls. I like it!
I ask them to make me something.
something creative, something they feel they do with a professional or near professional level of skill. that's what I'm providing.
I've gotten paintings, dinners, serenades, lessons and all sorts of things I value more than the $50 per hour I could have extracted.
plus, you can ask family and friends to give you those sorts of things. most of them will enjoy making them.
my livejournal is interesting and worth reading - I swear. I know everyone thinks their blog is interesting. mine is.
don't charge anything. Then downgrade..er I mean upgrade their machine.... and sell the extra parts on ebay.
profit!
You can't believe how easy it is to get a blowjob from a university coed whose paper you've just saved from oblivion.
Or 40 dollars per visit. First off, this is a fraction of what Best Buy would charge for similiar service, secondly you deserve it, and lastly they will take your advice seriously if they know its going to cost them 40-50 dollars to fix another spyware/virus infestation. If you charge next to nothing they'll ignore your advice, treat you like some idiot savant who doesnt know his own value, and pester you with phonecalls because they have not learned proper PC hygeine.
Sure, you will lose customers this way, but those are customers you'd want to lose anyway. The cheap naggers who are unwilling to learn anything aren't worth the trouble.
I've always done it for free.
Sometimes I'll get something in exchange: money, beer, their old equipment, whatever. I don't ask short of making it clear that I'm always in the market for any equipment they don't want.
If someone becomes a "problem", I don't charge them more, but I make it clear they're a problem. I explain to them what they aren't to do if they want me to help them again.
For instance, I install Firefox on every Windows machine I support and rename the icon "Internet". I explain what it is, it's for and that they should only use IE if their school, bank, whatever doesn't work in Firefox, and then only for that purpose.
If I get a call that their computer is "slow" and I get there and it's full of spyware and I find out they've been using IE exclusively, that's it. I fix their problem and explain why it happened. Usually I don't get another call for that problem. If I do, I tell them I can't help them and they need to take it somewhere.
I prefer this to charging them money. Anyone who can't follow my instructions is likely not to understand problems well enough to understand when I've fixed something and when I've made a mistake. So I go there, fix everything right, a month later, they have the same problem (because of something they did) and expect me to fix it because it's the same problem they already paid me to fix.
I don't see any reason to get into that situation with family or friends. I'm not, after all, concerned with money. I'm concerned with my time.
Buy me beer and I am very helpful. No beer, no virus scan.
sulli
RTFJ.
I charge them hard if I'm on-site... especially if it's some residential person who's just too lazy to disconnect their computer and bring it in.
If they bring it in to me I take it home and only charge for the time I actually work on the thing.
IE if I have to run spybot I charge for the time installing it and starting it and then I kick back and watch some tv or flip over to my computer and read slashdot. An hour or 2 later I'll check on their computer and clikc a few clicks and then go back off the clock while it reboots or whatever.
This has worked out well for me and with a KVM switch it's no big deal to work on 2 or 3 computer simultaneously.
G
A pound of flesh, no more or less, not even to the twentieth part.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
If I was in your position, I would do the following:
First off, don't charge anything to anyone in your immediate family or friends. This ideally should be a group of at most about five people.
Second, think about the possibility of trading and/or bartering services, whether formally or informally. Surely at some point it will be beneficial if you can count on free/reduced services from, say, a plumber, or a real estate agent, or an attorney, or any number of people.
Then charge everyone else. I would do it officially and get a business license which is probably not too expensive and you can recoup the costs after 25 hours of work, I would guess. (Again, maybe an accountant or attorney can help you incorporate in this case). Then charge something like $25 per visit plus $15 per hour, or whatever you feel your time is worth. The people you are charging are customers, and you are legitimately providing services to help them. I would certainly "fix it right" the first time and maybe offer a sheet or two of common traps so that they don't have this problem in the future.
There's franchises that already do this, like Geeks on Call (disclaimer: I have no ties with them whatsoever). More than likely you will want to do something smaller.
I suggest creating a company or getting a license (plus listing any certs you have helps) because eventually you might be the guy to help a small business at which you can easily make a lot of money. Also, when its a company (and not "my brother-in-law Steve, he's great") it's OK to charge more because people expect overhead, etc.
I would only do this final step if you're really interested and if it seems worthwhile. You can always have a very high rate that is charged to businesses but you help residential customers for less on the side.
Basically, do it right and all the way or don't do it at all and stick to helping close family members and those whose services you might use in the future. The third step is what can easily cause you to go from a casual helper to someone who can make a decent chunk of change.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I get asked this all the time. I do not charge family, or friends but I let them All know I do this kind of work as a side business and please refer people to me. This is an easy way to clue them in that you will not fix there friends machines for free.
However. Unless they have a specific software issue that requires windows I set them on the path to getting a mac next time around. If they cheap out and buy another PC, I simply do not help them, or charge or barter.
My rate is $65 minimum 2 hours. If its a business I charge more. I do not charge for phone calls or email support but when I am called out I always round up and they have allready called me a few times.
I do not fix win95, 98 or ME. I will only install a fresh purchased version of XP if the machine can't take it then I walk them through getting a Mac Mini or a Dell if they must have windows for something. Most people seem to want more power any how, and a lot of my calls start with I just got this digital camera.
I support my mom, my neighbour, my exgirlfriend and a few friends. All of them were willing to switch to Slackware/Dropline desktops for different reasons (cheap programming environment, plain mail and office uses, no hassle with viruses and so on).
Most of the time they get free support since it is fun to teach them how to use Linux and mostly the boxes are in good shape. Regular issues are "This movie won't display / Codecs", "I can't connect to my Windowsmachines / Samba", "My instant messenger won't work / When MSN changed their protocol again *sigh*".
Back when I was fixing Windows machines I didn't charge anything since it made them feel as if they owned my sparetime and called me whenever they wanted. What's more, everytime it breaks again you are the one to blame.
For neighbors and coworkers, I typically charge a flat $20 total if they bring the machine to my house. I can throw on a spyware removal tool and go do something else and come back. I'm not getting rich from this, but it keeps people from expecting everything for free. I don't mind reformatting and reinstalling everything, since it saves me from another Sienfeld re-run anyways.
I'm glad somebody said it.
Helping for free leaves them indebted to you instead of you to them. It's a great way to generate goodwill, as well as a nifty way to receive an unexpected favor later. I'd say it's better to have a positive accounts-receivable column, even if you never see a dime.
Taking money is opening up a can of worms. Blood is thicker than water... but the one thing that's thicker than blood is MONEY. People have this attitude (and sometimes rightly so) that as long as they're paying you, they have a leash on you... they then bother you/demand things from you, often out of proportion to the amount of money exchanged. That's a sticky situation to get into with family, friends, and coworkers. Do you want some kind of disgruntled attitude/tension between you and your friends? I don't.
Just by doing it for free, I've received all sorts of gifts in kind. Those gifts have included computer hardware, gift certificates, beer, lunch, etc, etc. I NEVER solicit such gifts, and I always make an effort to turn them down. That may sound odd, but I actually enjoy working on computers, and my day job already involves helping others (I'm an ER physcian, so I already see plenty of no-pay/self-pay/uninsured patients for free; doing the same to the occasional computer just doesn't bother me that much)
Then there's the simple act of doing something nice for people... sometimes that's its own reward.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
" Gas, grass or ass,
nobody rides for free! "
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
For the rare times I see my dad, i don't charge him a thing for his monnthly comptuer fixes. He did learn a lesson where he lost numerous photos's from my sister's graduation, since he paid $60 who essentailly reformatted his win2K setup(which I setup, TWICE!) to WinXP. No backups were made.
I did have to call a line where he had a friend who's son wanted a PC. You can guess who he wanted to help them. I drew a line and just gave them the number to Tran Microsystems(where I buy my systems at).
While I have made no money, I did get a free 40 gig hard drive that he unneccessarily purchased.
You should be able to trade your time for their time. Particularly if you can find people that have skills you don't have.
I know people who can easily fix a leaking pipe or lend me some decent power tools, but have no clue about computers... getting on their good side can save you a bunch of money at a later point.
As other posters have pointed out, as soon as someone pays you for your service, you are now the de facto go-to guy for any future computer problems.
I live in New York City, and at first it seemed like a great idea to get paid to tinker around with other people's computers. I charged an initial fee of $75 for a house visit which also covered the first two hours of work and an additional $35 for each additional hour. People enjoyed having someone come to their doorstep and exorcize the computer demons while at the same time offering them tips on how to avoid the same problems from happening again.
But after the first two months I realized that the majority of my weeknights were being consumed by computer-related issues. It is none too convenient to go to someone's house in Brooklyn or downtown Manhattan after work, putz around on their computer for ninety minutes, and then treck all the way back uptown to get home. My girlfriend was not very happy either with all the time that I spent fixing other people's problems. Also, gone were the days when I could tinker around with my own computer, since all the time I used to spend messing around with my own setup was now devoted to others.
Long story short, I no longer do housecalls for tech support, it feels like I have a lot more free time on my hands and as an added bonus I am free to work on my own computer. I still answer the occasional e-mail or phone call for minor computer problems but usually those are relatively minor issues.
When life gives you lemons, you squeeze the lemon juice into your enemies eyes and steal his apples.
Rule: Once you accept money for a service, the relationship changes. I fix computers for the odd friend. I do not charge.
I fix computers for customers who I do charge.
So what about the compost?
I like to garden to relax. I also maintain a triple bay compost area at the back of the section. I generate more compost than I can use. I started offering bags of compost to friends for free.
Some months later, my wife pointed out that the bags I purchased to put the compost in, had cost $200. Works out to about
I starting asking for a coin donation for the compost to cover the cost of the bag, I would explain to the people.
In the first 2 weeks of "selling" 5 bags, I recieved 5 "feedbacks". Previously I recieved none over 2 years, over maybe 100 bags given away.
Comments I recieved were:"
- "But I bought a bag last time, I don't have to pay for another?"
- Recieved a call from the wife of a customer, saying there was a milk bottle cap in the compost. Could she bring it back and get another bag of compost.
- "I don't have any change, can I give it to you later?"
- "Oh, thats a bit expensive. You can get twice the amount of compost from the garden centre.". ( I later learn that thats per bucket, and the liners you can buy for the cars Trunk(US), boot(UK, Aus, NZ) cost $2.00.
I have gone back to giving it away.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
I should also clarify that I live in Upstate New York and not NYC. $20 does seem too cheap. The local computer store charge a $40 minimum bench charge plus an additional hourly rate. It would typically end up $100 to remove virus and spyware. and do some other tinkering. Maybe $40 would be more appropriate. There's just something about that $50 mark that seems like you should have a real storefront. But I fix computers for a school district, so I'm not used to having to charge people for my time.
Family is free. Friends are free. Family Friends I give discounts to and prorate on a project basis. Most people insist on paying and even overpaying. For referrals to outside clients I'm $50 per hour, with a 2-hour estimate and cap for spyware removal. I really enjoy fixing people's computers. Most are to the point with spyware that they don't even turn it on. A few rounds of Spybot and Adaware, with a dash of Hijack This clears up 98% of problems, and is so easy. I usually don't make house calls other than to pick up and drop off machines. No sense in sitting at their house for hours on end watching scans go.
PS: Data recovery with Knoppix rocks! Several times now I've run into machines that won't boot into their Windows installs, but Knoppix jumps right in.
They agree to follow my advice. I tell them that I will help them, but they have to follow my advice, without complaints and do some minor adjustments to their behaviour that will in the end help them.
First out was my mom. The replaced her win95 PC with an iBook on my advice. Tech support calls from her went from 3 a week to 6 pr YEAR. Lately she has called, the ISP randomly resets the cable modem for some reason and she has to reboot it. It's OK.
Second was my GF. She wanted a portable to do school work and internet connectivity. So I said to her"Honey, I love you. But I'll be damned if I have to support that XP Dell you're looking at. If you buy it, you won't get and advice from me". She bought an iBook, support issues for 1 year 3 months: One. IPhoto screwed up and I had to reimport the pictures for her. She does call me when MSN is down though, like right now for example.
Third was a company of a friend. They asked me what computers they should buy to replace a broken win2000 box. They type, email and surf. Nothing more. I adviced them to buy eMac for the office and a Dell linux server for the backend. After calling Dell, they ended up buying a Dell front end system close in price to the iMac, with a CRT (!). It was infected with a virus within the day and they called me. Answer: "No, you didn't follow my advice, I don't offer support". Simple as that. Now they're up shit creek and Dell simply states that viruses (or the spyware they got in between) isn't part of their support plan.
My time is valuable to me, so I don't let others treat it like it is worthless.
Exploitation begins at home.
If there was ever , and I mean EVER a way to get Married to a computer, working on it for a friend/family member is it.
They might as well hand out a Marriage Liscence when you repair it, because (assuming you always do it right as I do) any time ever in the future anything at all goes wrong with it they will call YOU.
The trick is getting OUT of doing repairs for friends and family, me I just become my grumpy self, and tell them word for word what I am thinking while I repai their system. THEN They ONLY ask ifits serious and nobody else could help, at that point for FAMILY I will help.
The easiest way to "HELP" a few friends to get them out of the habbit of asking you is copy all their files off, and wipe the machine and when they say where are my files you say "Oh you needed those ?" and after a day or so say Oh I forgot and made a backup, the near scare willl prevent them from EVER asking you again, I promise....
I used to do tech support for friends and family. And I was more than willing to do it for free. But it simply got too annoying. I got in too many situations where they would second guess what I was doing and offered their own asinine and ignornat solutions. It got to the point where I was tired of saying before I left, "Look, if you're so knowledgeable, what am I doing here? I guess I'll just leave."
If someone wants my help, I''m more than willing to give it. But they really have to want it first.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I'd agree that $20/hour is exceptionally low, and suggest that $50 be looked at as low as well. A few perspectives:
1. cost model: If you were doing this as a living, you'd understand that you'd have a portion of your time that you could actually be out billing, vs. a portion you're unable to bill. Researching things, fixing things for people that end up not paying, fixing things that you goofed up the first time and don't bill for the second time, and being idle are all unbillable times. While I've seen models where employeers pretend they can have people 80% or higher billable, this places great stress on the system long-term. At 50%, you're going to have to factor the downtime. So, if you want to make $50,000/year, at 50% billable (on 50 weeks worked), that's 1,000 billable hours a year = $50/hour (easy math). But you might find additional expenses you need to include, like taxes and social security (oops! there goes a huge chunk), health insurance, general liability insurance (if you do this, I'll guarantee you'll eventually have someone sue you for something assuming you have deeper pockets than they do) current and legal licenses to software, a new laptop every year (they get beat to hell traveling), Internet connectivity, cell phone bill, etc. - and you're suddenly up over $60/hour.
2. comparative model: My plumber in my small town charges $70/hour. I'd argue that my nonstop education in technology (vs. his rather static field) deserves at least $10/hour more, not to mention the college education appropriate for it. $80/hour is my "plumbing rate" in the Midwest. Fixing PCs or running cables = plumbing.
3. service model: If you're able to do much more than "computer plumbing", charge appropriately for the job. I'm a certified security analyst, so I charge $155/hour when doing assessments (cheap actually). I charge $125/hour for Cisco engineering.
4. "bill" your gratis accounts: I take care of some little old ladies and relatives in town. I let them know (and occasionally will print a courtesy invoice with the actual charge and credit applied) how much it really costs. I ask them to donate to a charity - the church ladies all do so to our church, and church has new gravel covering the parking lot, utility bills paid and other important things from a tiny bit of computer work from me.
The best thing you can do is enforce that the computer world is a business and a profession. I encountered a "do it for free" attitude when I moved here due to a 20-year-old hack that did so. When you give it away without any cost, you make it worthless and cause people to think what we do is not legitimate. Electricians, plumbers and other technicians all have to feed their families and pay their bills. Neglect your car and demand free repairs, and you'll suffer the consequences. Computer techs need to help the public understand their PC is no different than their car in this manner.
....whitebox shops around here that do "computer fixin'" which is usually just cleaning up borked windows installs from bad internet mojo, they are getting around (all similar, close enough) 60 dollars an hour for that service. No flat rate I have seen unless it's just a complete wipe and reinstall. If the customer wants all or most of their data intact, they tote the freight for at least an hour or no fixy for cheap. So there's an answer from bubbaland.
And that's why you won't see windows leave the market anytime soon, because this is the LEAST money being made by IT "professionals" off of windows being on almost everyones computer. The LEAST amount. "They" -any random windows IT professional, may claim publically they want excellent products, reality is that windows being as goobered up as it is is a hundred billion dollar (some large @55 number) make-work phony baloney business now,it is designed to perpetuate a near functional but never quite finished by design and intent highly lucrative perpetual cash cow, with thousands of people (or millions no idea really)now grown dependent and complacent on that easy money income. It's not a legit business anymore, it's a crime racket as far as I am concerned, a silent cartel of cooperating profiteers, large,medium and small sizes. From MS itself to the local computer herdsman, it's moo baby moo gimmee the money. Ha!
There's little to no profit in selling computers that work and don't break. Just like cars to beat that old dead analogy horse one more time. The hardware NEEDS to crap out soon after warranty and the software has to be in a perpetual state of beta ware, although it's all "licensed to use for your economic and sanity inconvenience" as a finished product. And that's why there is NO warranty with consumer software as well.
So, sock it to those folks who absolutely insist on using windows, that's exactly what it's designed for, to make you money. It's secondary reason is to function as software, but primarily, it's a cash cow, milk it. Charge em.
Yes I am cynical, no I don't use windows on the intarweb, never. I use linux or mac. I have a few old boxes and a laptop that have windows on them, but there's a decent airgap between them and the WWW, not that it isn't possible, it's that I simply don't care about trying to make windows function on the web, it's like bolting a wing on your yugo and applying flame stickers. Waste of time, IMO. I have never had any desire to even much "learn" windows because it became obvious as all get out with win95 what the scam was going to be, perpetual beta ware that you will be charged for.
the more I ask, the more people want my services. I have 3X as many people wanting my services (and not taking 'no' or a referral as an answer) at $155/hr as I did at $50/hr - go figure!
T.J. Schmitz - the man, the myth, the legend - o
Is that you must drink the beer while doing the support. Preferably slam two or three before getting started ("I just need to warm up before I get to work"). Make sure to keep the person you are doing the support for in the room with you by constant conversation.
When you start to work on the computer do so in a distracted manner - keep talking and babbling while glancing back and forth at the screen. Horror stories about computer problems you've fixed (real or imagined) are good, but especially comments about things you've done that have fucked up computers. "Yeah I used to think anti-static wrist wraps were for pansies, then there was the time I blew out an entire system from one little spark. Damn, over $1000 in damages, just from my stupidity. Oh, were did I put that anti-static strap? Must have left it at home, oh well, no biggie."
Also make sure to make comments like "Whoops! Hmmm, well didn't really need that anyway.", "So you do shopping on the Interweb? Man you should change your password, that one is too easy to hack." "What are these pictures of? analdogsex.com? I didn't know you leaned that way." "Jesus! You've got more spyware than the Kremlin in here!"
If you are really mean you can also play some nice practical jokes while you are there. You know the stuff - make hardcore porn auto launch when you log in, switch the sounds out for farts. Whatever floats your boat.
Odds are you can do the tech support blind, deaf and drunk anyway but the nice thing is you get to entertain yourself, terrify your friend and quite possibly next time your friend will take the machine to a shop instead of calling you to fix it.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I addressed this last year in a paper that is helpful to those offering support as well as those asking for it. In PDF - If you care to: http://www.computerate.net/Portals/0/Plight.pdf
$85,000 per year
Plus health and life insurance, 4 weeks vacation, multiple personal laptops, and I only take calls between 8:30 am, and 5:00 PM
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I have been a unix admin and currently am a network engineer. I don't "do windows" professionally. Still, my dad often calls for help. Once I pointed out that as a professor he has a university IT department he can call for help with their computers. His response?
"Listen, I didn't pay for 4 years of college to get lip outta you. Now shut up and answer the fucking question."
Yeah, Dad, I love you too...
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Years ago, I found myself almost overwhelmed with requests to perform computer work, at least until I set the following schedule:
1. Standard rate: $60/hour cash plus asshole tax. With tax, my rates have varied between $60 to $200 an hour.
If I am working on the cash rate, I give a written estimate of the hours needed in writing, along with a very specific layout of what is involved, including the hardware budget.
For prices of hardware equipment, I specify the client purchases it, and I use NewEgg and a local supplier when possible for pricing. I never say "2 NICs and a switch" in an estimate; rather, I say "2 Intel model this and that gigabit NICs" and "a Netgear model such and such gigabit switch". If the client insists on using what I consider old POS equipment, I explain the value of using quality equipment up front; if I can't convince the client, I either boost my tax rate or walk away.
Typically I will eat the cost of excess time up to 20% of the hourly estimate (if I say 10 hours, I will work to 12 hours if needed for the cost of 10), at which time we need to discuss further options. If I finish early, the client only pays for the time worked, not the estimate (estimate 10 hours, work takes 6, client pays for 6).
I typically break down a job estimate into small stages; at the completion of each stage, the client must agree that the work performed is to their satisfaction. Once the client is satisfied a stage is complete and pays me for that stage, I then start on the next stage. Final payment is due within two weeks of job completion. Each stage is spec'd out to an amount I would not cry over losing if the client decides to stiff me.
For those people that balk at my cash rate (where ever asshole tax takes it), my standard response is "I am not trying to be competitive in the marketplace; rather, this is value I place on the leisure time I give up to fix your problem".
2. If I know you or work with you (and presumably like you), I will perform a _single_ computer related task in exchange for feeding me and my wife.
Meals have ranged from home cooked meals (preferred) to local BBQ joints, to a cafeteria blue plate special; nothing fancy required, but the effort must be made.
Single tasks have included things like "get my computer sound working", "make my computer play Blue's Clues again like it used to", and "please install AV software and a firewall on my new computer". I am not near as picky about things in writing, and often can find something surplus at home that does the trick, but the person feeding me pays for any hardware involved.
That's my system; hope it helps...
You have it right on the head. I do consulting as a part of my job for busienss and individuals. Anyone who I don't know, or who knows one of my clients or whatnot falls under this category. They get charged by the hour or flat-rate (quoted price) for specific tasks- usually the first. Your job is to make sure it works as expected when you leave and after a reboot. Always restart the machine and test that it loads as expected and what you want to work works fine. That way they can't say you didn't fix it. At that point, your obligation is done. They can screw it up all the want (and at least you know how to fix it).
If the work includes a lot of sitting around (ie: installing WinXP SP2 on three machines- setting them up and drinking coffee for 45 minutes), I'll sometimes charge less or give a good deal or underestimate time if I'm not in a rush... Usually this is if they are good company or if I kinda know them or can relate to them so we sit and chat while it happens. Good hospitality = good mood = good deal.
Now there is family, friends, and neighbours, and the occasional friends of friends. These are really all free. In the end Karma works for you and you end up even in the end. There are people who will invite you to dinner, give you a few beers for your time, neighbours who will help you lift couches up flights of stairs, and the whole deal. My neighbour sees our 3-car driveway not plowed (our service hadn't come) and decided to clean 3/4 of a foot of snow off our driveway while he was doing his... And for 45 minutes of my time I'm going to charge this guy? Hell no.
Even if they have the impression that you're a genius, it means they'll recommend you to their friends or co-workers or businesses which you can then charge... But you don't want to accept money. If it's a buddy, simple words like 'you get the first round of drinks' works wonders- it undervalues your time at $3-5, but it's the gesture that counts... or have them get dinner.
So the rule? Family, friends, neighbours, family friends are usually free unless you're pretty distanced from them (greater the distance and if it's a lot of work (half day for example) then charge a little bit). Businesses, people you don't know, friends of friends of friends- charge them.
PS: Be careful throwing out prices. I've had some people come to me due to increased separation saying 'but you charged by brother-in-law XXX and us XXX'=- Nobody appreciates that. Set your rates. If you want to bring them down for someone, discount as a courtesy or say 'special price of...' so that they know it's just because you like them. It's easy to bring a price down, but not to bring it up. A prohibitive price will weed out those who are unqualified and a waste of your time anyway.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
I tell ppl that I do not do Windows (which is basically true). When they ask for support on it, I suggest that they either move to mac or to linux. Otherwise, they can take it into compUSA (which will cost them more than the damn computer).
Of course, this can backfire. I have moved 6 of my neighbors computers to Linux and about every 6 months, I spend time upgrading them. Kind of a pain, but much easier than dealing with daily calls on spyware, virus, etc. I also help one neighbor who has a mac and had a drive crash and a power supply loss. Fortunately, his system requires as little time as do the Linux.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Why not just tell everyone that they can have free compost, but they have to bring their own bags? I doubt you'd get any complaints about that, quite frankly.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
This post has superb timing. I just gave up on helping people with their computer problems. I simply do not have the patience nor the time to put up with the majority of these ungrateful bastards.
.. No that's not happening again. It's as if I went to his house to clean his car and got blamed for his dog being constipated! Numerous times I've lent a hand to people who had computer problems to only be taken advantage of and my time wasted. Most of these people have no respect of other's people's time. They call me late at night, while at work, very early in the morning, etc, etc.
Last Saturday, my dad asked me to help out a friend of his with his computer setup as well as teach his wife about the internet. Sounds good. I went to the guy's house, and noticed that their "high speed internet" was really not that high at all. I was getting 5KB/sec maximum from all kinds of servers. I was told the provider they were using were one of those mom and pops isps with a cheap $20/month deal for their "broadband" package. Fair enough, we could still work with that. Right a way I noticed that their computer was already full of spyware, and also noticed they were using IE. I explained to them, in very simple terms, the benefits of using a web browser that has better security. I recommended Firefox. I installed it for them and told them to give it a try. They liked it. I then proceeded to explain to them the basics of downloading, chatting on their msn account, etc. By the time I left, everything seemed ok, they seemed happy to know a bit more but I did tell them to look into their slow connection since I know you can get a better connection for the same amount of price.
The next day I get a called from the guy's wife telling me that her "list" doesn't display. I had no clue what she was talking about. After about 10 minutes of trying to figure out what they were talking about, I realized they were talking about their msn contacts list. I asked her if she was having problems signing in. She said yes, "the little green men are not dancing". I figured it might be a problem with msn. I told her to try Firefox and see if she can get anywhere. Nothing, she couldn't get the default homepage. I asked her if she had touched anything else on the computer but she said no, so I told her that it is most likely a problem with their Internet Service Provider and that they should call them and ask them if there are any problems in the area. This woman starts telling me that maybe I broke her computer by pressing the wrong "button" but she was still going to call the tech support people to see what is going on.
The next day at work while on the phone with one of the company's clients, I keep on an incoming call. It was the guy from the previous day. The person wants to know what happened to his computer, he says the new program reset his settings and now he doesn't have internet. He says it is not a problem with the Internet provider but rather the new program that I installed (Firefox). After 30minutes of trying to explain that it is nearly impossible for the new program to just go and start messing around with the internet settings I gave up. The guy is still blaming me for his broken internet. So, not only do I get disturbed while at work but I get blamed on breaking their computer after I went out of my way to help these people?
Their #1 excuse is that they don't have time to learn and would rather be told in a few minutes what to do. Well guess what, it doesn't work that way. If you don't have time to learn, maybe you shouldn't be using a computer! If you don't have time to learn, and can't try out things on your own and unless you are prepared to fork out $ for someone to baby-sit your computer, you should really consider NOT using a computer! It is a complex piece of technology that has a learning curve that you should be prepare to climb, it just doesn't come to you in one day. Just like anything else new in life, it takes time!.
What would you guys do? Until I can find a better approac
[alk]
I used to help people with PC issues.
Now I generally just push people away who have issues unless they have Macs, and I gently point them that way if it seems like it would be good for them.
I have to admit I did help one guy with a Windows laptop track down a memory problem (using a Linux LiveCD of course)... so I guess I draw the line at fixing Windows, but am OK helping a litte with pure hardware issues.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A hot dinner usually does it for me.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I encourage charging people - any way you like. Your work is valuable, and it is good to be appreciated. Will also benefit you when negotiating wages next time if you're in that habit.
Finally, having people give you something reasonable in return is much better than just refusing to help them. The ones that don't appreciate your skills you can do without :) If too many ask still, you can enjoy being popular and raise your prices!
Good luck in the marketplace :)
I'm in a Unix state of mind.
That scenario is easy to overcome. I stopped doing side jobs for awhile do to running into that problem. I have since taken a page from RR. After I fix someone's computer, I then make sure that I print off all of the logs from the AV and Anti-Malware software. I then have the user sit down for a test drive. I have them use the new HW/SW/feature/etc. I then have them verify that the entire PC is in working order to their satisfaction. Then I hand them a receipt for their payment that they must sign. On this receipt, it states that they are satisfied with the final state of operation of their computer. I then give the customer a copy of the receipt, and then keep a copy for my self. The copy for myself, I save for my taxes, and if they call back a week later winig that I broke something, I then ask them if they rember that we went through and verified everything was in working order before I left, and that they signed off on it. If stated in a professional and tactful way, most customers agree with me, and then don not even mind paying me for a return visit. The ones that get mad and upset are usually the ones looking for something for free, and never call back after I pont out that they did agree that it was working when I left. Customers like that you do not need anyways, so it is no big loss. I haven't had any problems since.
At the Tech Co-op, we charge our members $80CAD an hour, $50 if they are a non-profit/co-operative. We also offer discount rates for bulk hours, and monthly service contracts.
Having touched on that, the real issue is not how much money :
"I don't want to be a jerk and gouge people who should be able to trust me with their machines."Trust is the real issue at stake here. Once there is money changing hands, your customer has to be able to trust you fully. For the most part, our members are non-technical people who, like most people who work in an office, use their computers every day. When we tell a customer that they need a new RAID controller or to re-install XP, they have to believe us. If this trust is broken, our business becomes more diffcult.
We solved this problem by choosing a non-profit, member-owned services co-operative model for our business. This means that the company is owned by its customers and by its workers. Since the primary responsability of a corporate entity is to the shareholders, our customers are secure with the knowlege that legally, our only function is to provide them with superior technical services. And because we are a non-profit (and, an 'open-source' business, in that all our financial data is available to our members), they trust that our prices are as low as we can make them.
While i'm not suggesting you start a co-operative (infact, there is a great one you could join! see sig), i am suggesting you tread carefully. If you charge people money, and they procceed to mess up the system with spyware/viruses.. they are going to blame you. eventually you will have to deal with somebody who feels they were ripped off, or thinks you 'fixed' their computer b/c you were a little short on cash.
just some advice from someone who has been there. I started out about 10 years ago doing tech support for small businesses. I'm a programmer now, but most of our business is still tech support, and trust is the primary issue in our industry today.
Drew Crampsie - Software Developer
Open Source Business : The Tec
That's the kicker. You have no way of knowing if what you did stuffed up there modem or not.
It's a bit like going to the mechanic and saying: "since you fixed my brakes, the gearbox doesn't work properly any more." He'll tell to to GTH, they're not related. Can you be so sure in something like a windows OS?
The basic question that needs to be answered here is: "do you want to deal with this or not?"
If so, then consider going thru the steps to form a business, as described here.
If not, then find some way to force them to spend some of their time to in order to get yours.
My approach is to tell people that they have to bring the computer over to my house and that I'll get to it in the next day or so. That is usually enough to dissuade them (these types don't like to even unplug cords), and if it isn't, then I know they have a genuine problem that they need help with, and I do my best to fix it in a timely fashion. Its funny how someone can consider it reasonable to demand that you take several hours and drive over to their house and yet be unwilling to take a few minutes to box up a computer.
I've used this approach with a couple of annoying (and distant) relatives, and its worked wonders.
"I probably need to have a new login. My old one is stalked by a former employee-gone-psycho on substance abuse (he looks like a meth abuser but not sure). Really bright guy but goes in and out of the delusional stages."
I worked with a gal who was clearly abusing some sort of substance. She was a total psycho. Early in the week she would be pretty zoned out, later on in the week she would turn into a raving nutjob. She would burst into hysterics and abuse entire rooms full of people for no reason.
I figured she was out popping tabs and clubbing all weekend, and as the weekend approached she was probably coming into the DT's until she hit the clubs again on friday.
She ended up leaving after a run in with a "new" employee. I say "new" as he was really an old employee who had returned after an absense of about a year. The guy was a Croatian of the Christian persuasion but she didn't know that. He looked slightly swarthy. Anyway, this crazed bird arrived in the office one day ranting about terrorists and how all muslims are bomb carrying death merchants etc etc. She must have been listening to some right wing talkback program on her way in that morning and whatever she'd heard had really set her off that day. Anyway, this Croatian guy stood up and took mock offense to her "calling me a terrorist" and proceeded to tell her that he was a muslim and he takes offence at being labelled as a "terrorist".
She left the building post haste, and was last seen running down the centre of the street screaming hysterically about how there was a "terrorist on the loose".
I kid you not.
She never returned after that day.
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
My mechanic insists on pizza as well as beer. But he's worth it.
I have been doing it for 12 years, I know that I undercharge, but it makes it a lot easier to find work. I don't have to worry about marketing, I get word of mouth because I'm cheap.
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -Confucius
Friends get to mooch an hour of my time free. Family members get more.
After that, I charge them but ask them to make the check out to their favorite charity.
If it's cutting into my personal life or my other clients then I treat them like any other client or refer them to my peers.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.