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The AT&T Archives Post-SBC Merger?

Posted by Zonk on from the technological-history dept.

mrfantasy writes "An article in the Newark, NJ Star-Ledge discusses the possible fate of the AT&T Archives, which is a huge, irreplaceable historical repository of most of the advancements of late 19th and 20th century communications. Corporate archives are often casualties of companies when they are subsumed by a parent organization. The archives include such things as long-distance telephone directories from the mid-1890s, containing every long distance subscriber in the country, including Alexander Graham Bell himself; and a microphone from Warren Harding's 1921 inauguration, the first heard by the crowd thanks to AT&T amplification equipment."

159 comments

  1. code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

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    It's trinary to (0-26=A-Z) (but that's only part of it)

    1. Re:code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Y O U R E @ O N @
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      Z T E Z E N W Z O
      N

      lameness filter is lame lame lame filter lame filter# Please try to keep posts on topic.
      # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
      # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
      # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
      # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)# Please try to keep posts on topic.
      # Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads.
      # Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said.
      # Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
      # Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

  2. fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    pwned

  3. fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    im the best

  4. Dumpster? by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's the 21st century.
    We have eBay now.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
    1. Re:Dumpster? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      I really don't see the point. Who the hell cares about this crap? Oooh an old telephone! Oooh, an old telephone book! WOW! NATIONAL FUCKING TREASURES!... Jesus dudes, not everything on the sun has to be preserved. We have phones. We know when they were invented. We know how important they are. That's all that matters.

      People who get pissy every time something old is threatened piss me off.

    2. Re:Dumpster? by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      From an archeaological standpoint these things are a link to the past that is tangible and worth preserving for a better understanding of the culture and technology of the times. They should simply be donated to museums or private collections that specialize in that sort of thing.

      What is the big deal?

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    3. Re:Dumpster? by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      What is the big deal? Corporate accountants can make donation a nightmare sometimes. I've seen surplus hardware gather dust and eventually be thrown away when a not-for-profit customer could have really really used it -- because the suits couldn't figure out how to account for it.

    4. Re:Dumpster? by Heb116 · · Score: 1

      Ain't that the truth! I don't know how many good, working computers we've thrown out because the company I work for wouldn't take the time for the paperwork to donate them. I'd even go so far as they to suggest the organization and produce the forms needed and it still didn't help!

  5. ...touch me..!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    .....please..!!! ..don't make me beg!!!!

    1. Re:...touch me..!! by screwedcork · · Score: 0, Troll

      .......please!!!!!!

  6. From an 1890 by racecarj · · Score: 5, Funny

    Alexander Graham Bell's Phone Number: 1

    1. Re:From an 1890 by Space_Soldier · · Score: 3, Informative

      Speaking of him, didn't the Italians bitch that one of their citizens invented the telephone first, but didn't have money for a patent, while Bell had?

      I found Google Cache Link that says that Congress gave Antonio Meucci credit for inventing the telephone.

    2. Re:From an 1890 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It wasn't till 909 more people signed up that the police got involved.

      That's the speed of Law Enforcement, eh?

    3. Re:From an 1890 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha ha, that's right, stick it to the man. Except, if your point is that law enforcement moves slowly, why are you making a joke about a number specifically chosen so that it could be quickly dialed on a rotary phone? Doesn't that kind of go against the whole point of your joke?

    4. Re:From an 1890 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Alexander Graham Bell's Phone Number: 1

      In reality the first telephones didn't have numbers till 1879. Operators, or Telephone/Hello Girls, memorized the names and physicaly connected two points to make a connection. It was kinda pointless to know a number till the rotory phone which was in use earlier but not on Bell's system till roughly 1919.

    5. Re:From an 1890 by MSDos-486 · · Score: 1

      Peter: this is your ansestor so and so he had one of the first dozen telephones So and So: hello Person on the line: hey John So and So: No sorry what number did you want Person: 11 So and So: no sorry this is 3

    6. Re:From an 1890 by mrpuffypants · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of an old Family Guy scene (roughly copied here):

      Peter: Why, my great, great grandfather was one of the first people to own a phone!

      ----flashback showing black and white version of peter with a beard in 18th century----

      (phone rings)

      Old Peter: Hello?

      Voice on phone: Hi! Is this Steve?

      Peter: No, this is Peter, what number did you dial?

      Voice: 3

      Peter: ahh, this is 7

      Voice: My mistake!

    7. Re:From an 1890 by earthforce_1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I heard dialing was an invention by a funeral home operator, who was wondering why his business seemed to be getting worse for some reason, and his upstart competitor was doing so well. As it turned out, the wife of his competitor just happened to be the town's telephone switchboard operator.

      --
      My rights don't need management.
    8. Re:From an 1890 by keytoe · · Score: 1

      910? Those two numbers aren't that hard to add - even if they are in base 10.

      --

      Culture is more than commerce

    9. Re:From an 1890 by Cmdr+TECO · · Score: 1

      The Prelinger Archives has two films explaining how to dial a phone: How to Use the Dial Phone from 1927, and the more modern "talkie" Dial Comes to Town.

      --
      echo 33676832766569823265328479713269.8639857989Pq | dc
    10. Re:From an 1890 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 + 909 more people THEN the police. So after 910 came the police with 911. Was that so hard?

    11. Re:From an 1890 by TurtleTower · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, Bell's phone number? That's like having Al Gore's IP!

    12. Re:From an 1890 by akobelan · · Score: 1

      Overheard on a party line ... around 1890:

      - Ahoy! May I speak to Bill please?
      + Who?
      - Bill! Bill Jones.
      + I'm sorry, I think you have the wrong number.
      - Is this 2?
      + No it isn't.
      - Sorry.

    13. Re:From an 1890 by unitron · · Score: 2, Funny
      " Speaking of him, didn't the Italians bitch that one of their citizens invented the telephone first..."

      You kids today don't know anything that happened before last week. The Italian who invented the telephone was Don Ameche.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    14. Re:From an 1890 by coaxial · · Score: 1

      Alexander Graham Bell's Phone Number: 1

      You know, that's funny, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually true. A friend of mine owns an old sign to request ice from the iceman. The inside of the sign reads, "Zeigler Ice. Telephone: 7".

    15. Re:From an 1890 by NumberGod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep, his name was Strowger.

      http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/automat1.htm/

      NG.

    16. Re:From an 1890 by coopaq · · Score: 1
      You kids today don't know anything that happened before last week. The Italian who invented the telephone was Don Ameche.

      Who you calling "kid?"

      I know damn well the Mr. Skype invented the telephone.

    17. Re:From an 1890 by Hurga · · Score: 1

      Philip Reis invented the telephone.

      There have been claims that the Reis telephone didn't work for spoken communication, just for sounds, but these have been rebutted a long time ago.

      Hurga

    18. Re:From an 1890 by ReverendLoki · · Score: 1

      That's so typically bigotted of you - just because a man has an Italian sounding name like Ameche, you gotta assume he's some sort of "Mafia Don".

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    19. Re:From an 1890 by mbaciarello · · Score: 1

      Funny thing you should use that term, "bitch about."

      However, in a modern perspective, it does look like one of those cases where the guy who gets the patent first wins the day. I wonder if Meucci actually ever got around to "bitch about" prior art with the USPTO.

      Actually I don't think it's a case that the phone was first patented in the US. Italy, at the time, wouldn't have had an economy (= a market) and/or a government strong enough to promote the technology.

      The fact that Meucci didn't have the financial support to patent his invention (in the US), and that he died in poverty, tells a lot about my country at the time.

    20. Re:From an 1890 by unitron · · Score: 1
      Good one.

      I'm assuming that you're aware that Don Ameche played Bell years ago in a movie, and that "ameche" became a slang term for a telephone.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  7. I'm back!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Hey guys, I've been away from slashdot for over ten months. But I'm back now!!

  8. Corrections by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Firstly, it's the "Star Ledger", not the "Star Ledge"; secondly, it's AT&T, not AT&aT. What's with the editors these days?

    1. Re:Corrections by priestx · · Score: 1

      You're mistaken, AT&aT is a baby Ay of the giant AT&T company. AT&aT is being sold.

      --
      "To be is to do." -Socrates
      "To do is to be." -Jean-Paul Sartre
      "Do-be-do-be-do." -Frank Sinatra
    2. Re:Corrections by Apreche · · Score: 5, Funny

      not AT&aT

      Their armor is too strong for blasters. Use your harpoons and tow cables!

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    3. Re:Corrections by mrfantasy · · Score: 1

      I don't want to go finger pointing, but it was right when it left my computer. The link text was moved to a different part of the article when it was posted. Looks like the typos happened then.

      --

      -- Of course I'm paranoid. I'm a sysadmin.

  9. You can't save everything by erick99 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Save the whale, save Jane Fonda from irate whales, save coupons, save lives at the beach, save old phone books....nah.....

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  10. Typo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    It's actually the Star-Ledger.

    Love,
    A New Jerseyan

  11. Auction it off by OverlordQ · · Score: 0, Redundant

    You can be sure some Private Collectors would probably buy up alot of this stuff if they auctioned it off.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    1. Re:Auction it off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bet. When someone asks who invented the transistor, various claims can be made. Without original proof, anyone can patent the idea. With the documents split (ripped) amoung several people all wanting a bit, and people having to collect pages 2, 26 and 429 and assemble the document from a group of 10,000 private collectors, the whole history can be right royally savaged, buried, and in 20 years we can say that aliens invented the transistor (or maybe the French). Better yet, if there are 2 or 3 copies of documents that are 150 years old, buy them all up, burn the duplicates. Then you can get a lot more for the 'one remaining document'. And hey, if it happens to get burned/crumpled/lost, we can blame AT&T. Kewel! Any more bright ideas sunshine?

    2. Re:Auction it off by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      You're right. I was all for ebaying it. But you've made me realise, putting it in the dumpster is much better.

  12. Telemarketers? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd love for those fsckers to go try sell health insurance to a bunch of dead people.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  13. SBC is still a Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although possible, I find it unlikely that SBC would not value AT&T's heritage as much as, and as part of, its own. It is a Bell operating company after all, with many veteran execs from the Bell system of yore. It may even use the AT&T name after the merger.

    1. Re:SBC is still a Bell by Fortyseven · · Score: 1

      They didn't seem to give too much of a shit about preserving SNET's history when they bought them up back when I used to work there. Wasn't too bad when they were calling us "SBC/SNET"; that I could live with. But then they dropped it completely...bleh.

      --
      BytesTemplar.com
    2. Re:SBC is still a Bell by Dun+Malg · · Score: 4, Informative
      They didn't seem to give too much of a shit about preserving SNET's history when they bought them up back when I used to work there. Wasn't too bad when they were calling us "SBC/SNET"; that I could live with. But then they dropped it completely...bleh.

      What history? They dropped the name. BFD. Southern New England Telephone co. was basically the first RBOC, but so what?
      Oh yeah, being "first" is a rich and voluminous history; and all that history was destroyed when SBC dropped the SNET from its name locally. [/sarcasm] In the case of AT&T here, were talking physical history (e.g. original antique phone books). Company names are (at best) just tradition.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    3. Re:SBC is still a Bell by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      In a capitalist society, saving evidence of the companies you have taken over just doesn't make sense.

      There is no trace of mediaone, which is now comcast.

      There is no trace of bank of boston, which became fleet.

      There will be no trace of fleet once it becomes boa.

      There will be no trace of AT&T once the merger is complete.

    4. Re:SBC is still a Bell by zericm · · Score: 1

      There have been plenty of instances where a company dropped their own name in favor of the name they just bought. For example, Nations Banks is now Bank of America. And the name Wells Fargo Bank has survived not one, but two takeovers.

      The name or logo of a company of a company can be a very valuable asset. For example, the Wells Fargo Stagecoach is pretty damn powerful icon. It has appeared in tons of movies and even shows up in school books as a part of the old west.

      The name Bank of America sounds a hell of a lot better then Nations Bank and came with a lot of great history.

      AT&T is still a recognized brand and has a nation appeal that the regional based SBC (Southeren Bell Corp) doesn't have. SBC is a national player and having a national brand like AT&T can't be dismissed.

      I wonder if SBC will go back to the AT&T roots, using AT&T at the national level and reviving the old regional bell names for local use. Pacific Bell and Southern Bell were the name used by those local units prior to the AT&T break-up.

      The more things change. . .

      thx,
      Eric

      --
      The welfare of the people has always been the alibi of tyrants. - Albert Camus
    5. Re:SBC is still a Bell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont know...SBC cannot seem to get their vans repainted in former Ameritech land. It might be the old vans have AC and the new shinney replacements in the fleet ones do not.

      Seems SBC doesnt buy Vans with AC even when their tech in South Texas....I thought Ameritech was ran by a buch of bozos.....SBC has Yahoo Bozos.

    6. Re:SBC is still a Bell by studerby · · Score: 1
      SBC (Southeren Bell Corp)

      SBC is actually Southwestern Bell. The south-eastern RBOC is BellSouth.

      --

      .sig generation error:468(3)

  14. Great Case for a Museum by jacksonyee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This archive by itself would be a great museum based upon the things in it that the article mentioned. Of course, someone would have to organize the collection and hire staff to maintain the buildings, but it's a shame to see our history not being put to use. Some of the stories and innovations here could serve as inspiration to our kids and current researchers much the same way that the moon landing and Hubble telescope did for some of our generation. If they setup a building with the highlights and charged a modest price for admission, it would be far better than letting these memories go to waste.

    1. Re:Great Case for a Museum by ahbi · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, here is an idea.

      Why don't we create a national museum or series of museums to house and display things relating to our national history or just cool things in general.

      You know we could put the museum(s) in a central location. Like the nation's capit[a|o]l.

      Maybe we could get some really wealthy person to donate money for the museum(s). We could be nice and name the museum(s) after that person.
      Hell, I beat the guy could even be a British scientist. Congress could be a big help here.

      And since it is a government sponsored museum, entry could be free, or a nominal charge.

      Someday the museum(s) could grow to be the largest museum complex in the world. They could function as "an establishment for the increase & diffusion of knowledge."

      Yeah, that would be great.

    2. Re:Great Case for a Museum by eyeball · · Score: 2, Informative

      This archive by itself would be a great museum based upon the things in it that the article mentioned. Of course, someone would have to organize the collection and hire staff to maintain the buildings, but it's a shame to see our history not being put to use. Some of the stories and innovations here could serve as inspiration to our kids and current researchers much the same way that the moon landing and Hubble telescope did for some of our generation. If they setup a building with the highlights and charged a modest price for admission, it would be far better than letting these memories go to waste.

      There are a few. BellSouth's Telephone Museum. I could swear there's another telco museum in San Francisco.

      --

      _______
      2B1ASK1
    3. Re:Great Case for a Museum by whizistic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Having been at the San Francisco SBC museum a few weeks ago, (located in the Bell building at 140 New Montgomery, open 10AM-2PM Mon-Thurs) I can candidly say it sucked elephant nuts through nanopore straws. The volunteer mentioned that most of the good stuff went to the archives when a consultant curator came through and turned it into a museum rather than the collection of interactive exhibits it was before. It used to be cool, now it's basically a couple phone books from 1919, a princess phone, and half a frame from 1936. So, yes, SBC == Slash and Burn Corporation.

    4. Re:Great Case for a Museum by bigt_littleodd · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That's what the Smithsonian is for. If Congress approves, and they are allowed to get their hands on the goodies, and they deem the items preservation-worthy, they will.

      The life and times of AT&T is an integral part of 20th century US history. If SBC is stupid enough to send that history to the garbage pile, then SBC must be destroyed as well because they would have done a great disservice to posterity.

      Mission statement from the SI website:

      Secretary Small's Vision

      "The Smithsonian is committed to enlarging our shared understanding of the mosaic that is our national identity by providing authoritative experiences that connect us to our history and our heritage as Americans and to promoting innovation, research and discovery in science. These commitments have been central to the Smithsonian since its founding more than 155 years ago."

      Lawrence M. Small, Secretary of the Smithsonian

      If you are ever in the Washington DC area, try to visit the Smithsonian Instution if you can. Know that you can spend an entire day in just one or two buildings devoted to just a few subjects.

      The National Air and Space Museum is the most popular of all the Smithsonian buildings. Plan on a full day there. If you can't make it downtown but fly into Washington Dulles, the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the A&S is on Dulles' property. Plan on at least 4 hours there if you want see most of it.

      Okay, getting a little OT there. So sue me.

      --
      Let's play Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I'll be Pestilence.
    5. Re:Great Case for a Museum by iocat · · Score: 1

      It would be rad if one of them was just devoted to the Space Program and like, aviation. They could sell "astronaut ice cream" in the gift shop. I would totally go to such a museum if it existed. They could get a U2 in there... a Harrier... Maybe like an Apollo capsule...

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    6. Re:Great Case for a Museum by ahbi · · Score: 1

      They could get a U2 in there

      Speaking of Bono ...
      I suggest, if he doesn't stop coming over here and telling us how to fix things and giving sunglasses to the Pope, that we send Bob Seger over to Ireland to get them straightened out.

      If that doesn't work, I think we'll be forced to send over Ted Nugent.

    7. Re:Great Case for a Museum by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And said museums could also keep 90+ percent of their collections in the back rooms where most people will never see them...

    8. Re:Great Case for a Museum by Marvelicious · · Score: 1

      Good plan. Send Seger and Nugent, but what I want to know is - what do we do to keep them from coming back?

      --
      Send whiskey and fresh horses!
    9. Re:Great Case for a Museum by sharkey · · Score: 1

      They are OmniTouch's treasures now!

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    10. Re:Great Case for a Museum by studerby · · Score: 1
      what do we do to keep them from coming back?

      Threaten to send them Michael Jackson too? That ought to strike terror and dread into their hearts.

      --

      .sig generation error:468(3)

    11. Re:Great Case for a Museum by studerby · · Score: 1
      And said museums could also keep 90+ percent of their collections in the back rooms where most people will never see them...

      Having been in a very very small part of said back rooms (invertebrate paleontology), I can assure you that 90% of the stuff there doesn't need displaying. After you've seen the best example of each of thousands of species of trilobytes, you don't really have much interest in seeing the second-best specimen. tilobyte genera And frankly, unless you're a specialist, the fragments and partial specimens will make your eyes glaze over after the first 50 drawers. (And if you're a specialist, you can arrange access, or at least you could...)

      However, I heartily agree that they could use a *hell* of a lot more display space and put a *lot* more on display. I think a big room full of trilobites and a good comparitive time-line might do more to explain more about bio-diversity and ecology and ecology and geological time scales and evolution than any textbook.

      --

      .sig generation error:468(3)

  15. You can't save everything-unimportant. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Save humanity!

  16. Cause to worry by Bingo+Foo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Doesn't SBC stand for "Slash and Burn Corporation?"

    Seriously, why would anyone think this stuff is in danger? As if SBC wouldn't see it as an asset, part of their "goodwill" portfolio.

    --
    taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
    1. Re:Cause to worry by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Seriously, why would anyone think this stuff is in danger? As if SBC wouldn't see it as an asset, part of their "goodwill" portfolio.

      Don't trust a company that lists "goodwill" as an asset on its balance sheet.

    2. Re:Cause to worry by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      Most F500 companies list goodwill on their balance sheet. It's an accounting fiction.

    3. Re:Cause to worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No SBC stands for:

      Stupid Butt Company

    4. Re:Cause to worry by nomadic · · Score: 1

      So don't trust any country on the F500 list. I've seen how they calculate the number, it's idiotic.

  17. They've Gutted Everything Else... What's Left? by Black-Man · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I worked for AT&T, one could go to Murray Hill and it would be an educational experience. No "business requirement" needed. It was like a university setting where one went to learn from the masters.

    Now... the masters are gone. The company as it was is gone. Who cares?

    1. Re:They've Gutted Everything Else... What's Left? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I went to Murray Hill, I got to sit on the Cray's set cushion.
      It was cold.

    2. Re:They've Gutted Everything Else... What's Left? by microbrew_nj · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the Murray Hill campus now belongs to Lucent.

  18. Are they online? by BossMC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    *fires up wget -r*

    1. Re:Are they online? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I second that, kind of: Donate to Archive.org or the Stanford computer archives (Stanford has some technology archives of which I do not know the exact name of). Put it in good hands.

    2. Re:Are they online? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regarding your .sig; the guys from FGTH were at one point asked "don't do what?", to which their response, was, of course, "Don't relax!"

      Listen to the lyrics if you can't remember why it was banned on many TV and radio stations, as well.

    3. Re:Are they online? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha. As I type this, I'm listening to the New York remix. Relax has to be one of the greatest songs to come out of the 80s. I've been listening to all of the music my dad used to torture me with as a child. Figures, I love it now, but I didn't just tell you that.

  19. Smithsonian? by JeffSh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds like the perfect archive of "stuff" you might expect to see in the smithsonian? /shrug

  20. SBC-AT&T merger? by goon+america · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why should AT&T lose its archives because it's merging with SBC? Before "SBC" became a referent-less corporate initialism, it used to stand for "Southwestern Bell Corporation", a company formed by carving it out of AT&T due to anti-trust litigation. They had always been the same company, just taking a 22-year trial separation.

    (Oh, and how much public time and money was spent splitting up AT&T only to let the pieces gradually merge back together, like the re-heated T1000?)

    1. Re:SBC-AT&T merger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Not to mention before the break-up, GTE was the only other phone company other than Bell. Since GTE was swallowed up by a baby bell, all it would take is for the SBC or Veizon to buy up all of the cell phone companies and the remaining Land-Line providers and wala, back to a bell monopoly, but worse.

      Getting back on topic, since SBC now owns AT&T, they unfortunately have every right to trash the archives if they want since they now own them. IMO, SBC should sell it to the higest bidder instead of just throwing it away.

    2. Re:SBC-AT&T merger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      But with Bush hell-bent on destroying anything of historical significance and his tax credits to encourage that, all of it will probably be destroyed.

      I work for Hardee's corporate, and our execs recently went on a history killing spree. I was there about a year ago the day we closed our first franchisee's restaurant so we could write-off the property and sell the equipment as scrap. I saw the first neon sign the company used in 1960 smashed to write-off the value of the sign as a loss. I saw hundreds of pounds of historical pictures, menus, etc., including many from our first one in Greenville, NC,thrown in the trash.

      I've worked here for 35 years, and I'm glad I'm retiring soon. There's just too many repukians working here that follow Bush's lead. Never underestimate the hatred that the Bush crime family has for you.

    3. Re:SBC-AT&T merger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I'm certain that of all of Bush's many enemies, he counts the original Hardee's in Greenville, NC as #1.

      #2. Richard Clarke
      [strikethrough]#3. Saddam Hussein[/strikethrough] ...
      #11,887 Osama Bin Laden

    4. Re:SBC-AT&T merger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > the original Hardee's in Greenville, NC as #1.

      I said first franchisee.

      > #2. Richard Clarke

      Clarke is a DINO. I doubt Bushie hates him. Also, Clarke is sworn to kill for Bush. I think he has six year remaining on his oath.

      > #11,887 Osama Bin Laden

      You have him in the right place considering Bushie hasn't even attempted to capture him. In fact, he isn't allowing Pakistan to touch him. They worked together.

    5. Re:SBC-AT&T merger? by SIGBUS · · Score: 2, Informative
      Not to mention before the break-up, GTE was the only other phone company other than Bell.

      Not quite... there were hundreds, if not thousands, of small, independent phone companies, mostly in rural areas. Even today there are still lots of small telcos. Before the AT&T breakup, though, Ma Bell had a stranglehold on long-distance.

      --
      Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
  21. DONATE IT TO THE ARCHIVE by AntiPasto · · Score: 0

    I'm sure Brewster would love it.

    1. Re:DONATE IT TO THE ARCHIVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I wouldn't trust serious archiving to Brewster. He's a great guy, but you don't want him in charge of crucial data.

      Signed,
      Former Archive guy

    2. Re:DONATE IT TO THE ARCHIVE by AntiPasto · · Score: 1

      I dunno if you've worked with, or if any of us really have, long-term crucial data... Its cause is all but impossible to promote.

  22. family guy quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Scene: 19th century, A Telephone rings

    [Voice on phone]: "Hi, is this 7?"

    [Guy]: "No, this is 3!"

    1. Re:family guy quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Guy: Who are you?
      Phone: The new number 2. You are number 6
      Guy: I'm not a number i'm a free man!
      Phone: hahahahahahahah

  23. Who gives a shit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic



    All I care about is:

    1. W Is The President! WooHoo!

    2. My girlfriend swallows! Aw Yeah bitches!

    1. Re:Who gives a shit? by baldass_newbie · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      And both those things will end in 3 years, bro.
      My money is on number one lasting longer than number two.

      --
      The opposite of progress is congress
    2. Re:Who gives a shit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      2. My girlfriend swallows! Aw Yeah bitches!

      But you sir blow.

  24. My Turn!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Lameness Filter doesn't like me T_T

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  25. Start singing "Memories". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Now... the masters are gone. The company as it was is gone. Who cares?"

    Nothing is forever.

    1. Re:Start singing "Memories". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>"Now... the masters are gone. The company as it >>was is gone. Who cares?"

      >Nothing is forever.

      If we had computers capible of simulating the universe we could keep a copies of how the world was at that time period ;p.

      Ask your governments to put more into AI and computer research.

    2. Re:Start singing "Memories". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and the meaning to it all was found out to be the number 42. Where's that manic-depessed robot of yours?

  26. Who gives a [long lasting] shit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    "My money is on number one lasting longer than number two."

    Funny. My number two's last longer than my number ones.

  27. They can't... by MSDos-486 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because pre-1982 SBC history was AT&T history. Kinda funny how the student became the master

    1. Re:They can't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, god, the star wars references start in 3...2...1...

    2. Re:They can't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alax... I am your father.

    3. Re:They can't... by PornMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's kind of like life... changing your parents' diapers when they get old.

      --
      500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
    4. Re:They can't... by coaxial · · Score: 1

      because pre-1982 SBC history was AT&T history. Kinda funny how the student became the master

      No. It's more like some sort of reincarnation myth, or maybe it's the Terminator 2. Ma Bell was split, and now the Baby Bells have reformed, as Ma Bell again.

  28. Great Case for a [presidential] Museum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Someday the museum(s) could grow to be the largest museum complex in the world. They could function as "an establishment for the increase & diffusion of knowledge.""

    So why do all the presidents have their own museum?

  29. failzor5! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    sliNgs are limited,0 is mired in an BUT MANY FIND IT Standpoint, I don't your replies rather on slashdot.org

  30. Hello.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who is this? For God's Sake, who is this? Hello?

  31. NoNoNo by jspoon · · Score: 2, Funny

    You misunderstand. Reread the summary. They actually have a catalog containing the corpses of all the long distance subscribers. As such, all the rules involving cemeteries should apply here. Who needs TFA when I have Slashdot to boil it down to the basic ideas?

  32. It'd be a shame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    My first summer job in high school was at the Warren AT&T archives. I wound up staying on for 4 years

    The archive is a treasure trove of hardware for sure, but there are an incredible number of technical papers and photographs as well; Bell and Watson's lab notes while developing the phone, research notes on the development of the transistor and the Lab's UNIX flavor and more. David Korn's research notes on Ksh development or Arno Penzias' reports of his accidential verification of cosmic background radiation might be of interest to some /. collectors should the whole lot end up on the auction block.

    The place is crazy. It's not just the History of AT&T, it's the Great Library of information technology. Hopefully SBC will see it that way too. Last I heard, they had completed indexing and uncrating over 9 miles of paper case files (researcher's project notes) from the 1890's to 1980's. The number of talented scientists who spent their lives at the Labs helping create the IT infrastructure you're soaking in is astounding. As a research lab supported by a monopoly utility, they had unprecedented resources to explore all kinds of ideas. It's all there. Neat stuff.

    One of my favourite pieces was a 1960's prototype for an operator's uniform. Very Star Trek:TOS. Ohura's uniform in gold lamee. Some Suit thought it might be a good idea to have all the operators (almost entirely female at the time) wear uniforms, and this is what they came up with.

    But I'm waxing philosophic. SBC will save the tech documents at least, to protect the intellectual property they're buying with the hard assets. As for the old phone booths, recording equipment and videophone prototypes, maybe they'll end up in private collections or museums. Either way, hopefully more people will get to see and appreciate them.

    1. Re:It'd be a shame by microbrew_nj · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of that stuff is at Lucent now. That's where the bulk of Bell Labs went.

  33. FUD by chowbok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's no story here. The reporter has no reason to think this will happen. Nobody with either company has said the archives will be thrown out. AT&T's former archivist thinks SBC is good about keeping archives. SBC's spokesman says they keep archives. Some professor somewhere says, with no evidence at all, that they'll throw it all away, and that gives a bored reporter a hook to hang a bullshit story on.

    Calm down, they'll keep it or give it to a museum.

    1. Re:FUD by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      The fact that SBC said the would do something is reason to believe they will really do the exact opposite of what they say...

    2. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Star Ledger reporter certainly hooked the potential 'scandal' of SBC moving thousands of jobs out of NJ.

      As a former Bell Company, SBC shares a history with AT&T, but that's no guarantee that SBC will absorb the cost of moving hundreds of thousands of square feet of archival material to a new location, or that they'll continue putting money into NJ's economy by paying property taxes and employing locals to maintain the collection where it is.

      I used to work with Sheldon http://www.aip.org/history/newsletter/spr98/att-ar c.htm (the former AT&T historian) and I certainly hope he's right that SBC will maintian the collection. But SBC will have to balance any desire to maintain this asset with shareholder demands that they leverage this aquisition to maintian increasing profitability.

      There's no telling what choices SBC will make in order to meet Wall Street's expectations. That said, SBS is a stronger company today than AT&T, so maybe they are the better costodian.

  34. A little rabble rousing to stir up the proletariat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Corporate archives are often casualties of companies when they are subsumed by a parent organization."

    What? Is the submitter suggesting that SBC intends on setting fire to the historical archives of AT&T(presumably before killing the family members of the AT&T CEO lest they challenge SBC for the throne in the future)? Come on! These aren't the Vandals invading the Roman Empire.

  35. Never underestimate people's stupidity by xtermin8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Why wouldn't SBC value these archives?" Why would anyone burn the Library of Alexandria? Expect the worst, hope for the best.

  36. Isn't it obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SCO will own them

  37. Somewhere in the pile of paper... by bjbest · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... deep, deep, inside, is a copy of the infamous ( mythical ? ) issue of the Bell Technical Journal that described the operator-assited long distance dialing mechanism, and how easily it could be defeated. It gave rise to the "phone phreaks" and "blue box" devices in the 1960's, and rest is hacker history.

  38. Calling all Mormons by smchris · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Phone books are one way to supplement geneology. One of my great-great grandfathers had a home phone in the 1890s.

  39. Amazing story if true... by Bamafan77 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm often amazed by how much history is so much BS, especially the stuff you could supposedly hang your hat on. I mean, every grade school kid KNOWS Alexander Graham Bell invented the phone just like every kid KNOWS Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. I consider myself fairly cynical about things in general, but stuff like this makes me feel like a doe-eyed innocent setting eyes on the world for the first time. ;)

    1. Re:Amazing story if true... by mattdm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting. But your link has (at least) a factual error of its own -- Edison's electric chair didn't use DC. His own systems used DC, and he wanted to show that Tesla's AC was horribly dangerous -- so, basically, he made the thing run on AC as a marketting ploy.

    2. Re:Amazing story if true... by mnbjhguyt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm very amazed by you giving so much credit on the history books you've read. Actually, history books change a lot in different countries.

      Every italian history book always treated Meucci as the inventor of the phone, followed closely in time by Bell (much like Daimler and Benz for the car), but when i was an exchange student in the US, nobody ever heard of him.

      Also, i remember the history books and teachers in high school stressing a lot the fact that basically everything was invented by americans: motion pictures were Edison's invention, for example (whatever happened to the Lumiere brothers?), and i had a strong argument with the history teacher, who claimed that pizza was an american dish.

    3. Re:Amazing story if true... by Marvelicious · · Score: 1

      Well, I gotta say, pizza as we do it IS an American dish, kinda like sushi as we do it IS an American dish... ...but you are absolutely right. History seems to be the most variable thing in the world, and in this country, we write it with emphasis on stroking US pride. That way, when we start doing stupid shit all over the globe, all those American kids who are getting shot are too full of patriotism to criticize.

      --
      Send whiskey and fresh horses!
    4. Re:Amazing story if true... by Xrikcus · · Score: 1

      There were no Tomatoes in Europe, so if people think of pizza as "cheese and tomato with stuff on", which I would argue most people do, then one could see it as having American origins. Although...that is using "American" in its very loosest sense as a continent where tomatoes came from...

      Plus of course it is the greasy fast food American style of pizza that has (unfortunately) caught on around the world, so maybe your history teacher had a point really :) I just wouldn't think of it as a compliment to the US...

    5. Re:Amazing story if true... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Informative
      There were no Tomatoes in Europe, so if people think of pizza as "cheese and tomato with stuff on", which I would argue most people do, then one could see it as having American origins. Although...that is using "American" in its very loosest sense as a continent where tomatoes came from...

      Pizza as it's known today gets its roots from Naples. When tomatoes were brought back from the new world - in the 16th century. It really wasn't perfected until the 17th century. Again in Naples. The only thing America had to do with pizza was that single ingredient.

    6. Re:Amazing story if true... by mnbjhguyt · · Score: 1

      Very offtopic right now, but in italy we are tought that pizza has cheese, tomato, and basil (white, red, green) on it because they're the colors of the italian flag. (wikipedia seconds this).

      But then again, all this argument was about history books that tend to favor the publishing nation... i sure wasn't there in the late 1800s so i really can't confirm that it is true!

    7. Re:Amazing story if true... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The only thing America had to do with pizza was that single ingredient.

      Actually American's took Naples' pizza and made a whole new cuisine out of it. That's got to count for something. I just wish they didn't the same name so we could stop this sillyness about who invented pizza.

    8. Re:Amazing story if true... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, you ARE a doe-eyed innocent. If you weren't, you'd realize that the history of technology, at least for the last 200 years of American history, is the history of industry, and thus the history of the men who OWNED industry. Alexander Graham Bell OWNED the telephone industry in from its inception in the USA; therefore, he invented the telephone. Likewise for Edison and the electrical appliance industry, and Ford and the automotive industry.

      With regard to Edison - do you REALLY think that he, personally and individually, tested 500 diferent filaments for light bulbs? Or is it more that he paid the money that bought the building and employed the workers who did the testin? Edison invented the lightbulb in the same way that Gore invented the internet; he provided the necessary funding for the men who did the real work. At least with the internet, we know who those men are.

      The Wright brothers are a curious exception. They created the first heavier-than-air machine capable of lifting a man from the ground and returning him to it safely (for a certain value of "safe" - one was killed in a flying accident). They patented their inventions and promptly ceased innovating, choosing rather to sue the socks off of their competitors, who were forced to innovate ahead of the Wright patents. That is why there is no Wright Airlines or Wright Aircraft company today.

      Food for thought.

    9. Re:Amazing story if true... by The-Bus · · Score: 1

      Not Tesla - he was trying to discredit Westinghouse, going as far as trying to name the device after him.

      Just another of Edison's terrible business decisions later in his life.

      --

      Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

    10. Re:Amazing story if true... by mattdm · · Score: 1

      Tesla and Westinghouse were working together. So, not "not Tesla" so much as "and Westinghouse".

      This is a good excuse to bring up my favorite Tesla quote:

      "Had Edison thought out his work and spent more time in preparation, he would not sweat so much."

    11. Re:Amazing story if true... by Xrikcus · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing with that :) It is roughly what I tried to imply.

  40. It is not FUD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Bush rewards companies for destroying historical significant items. Remember "it is better to end than mend?" Well, that is the Bush way. Never, and I mean never, forget that.

    > Calm down

    You're forgetting the intensity of their hatred.

    1. Re:It is not FUD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      come out of your AC, andrew

  41. Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF HISTORY ITSELF. *KABOOM!* by Fortyseven · · Score: 1

    What history? They dropped the name. BFD. Southern New England Telephone co. was basically the first RBOC, but so what?
    Oh yeah, being "first" is a rich and voluminous history; and all that history was destroyed when SBC dropped the SNET from its name locally. [/sarcasm]

    I have an uncontrollable urge to rub my genitals across your left cheek.

    In the case of AT&T here, were talking physical history (e.g. original antique phone books). Company names are (at best) just tradition.

    I'm trying desperately to find where in my post where I said "When SBC bought SNET it destroyed history forever and is far larger a loss than what little will be lost in this trivial AT&T merger."

    Funny, I can't seem to find it.

    Gosh, perhaps it's possible that I was just saying that I doubted SBC would care based on similar (but not equal -- that was your interpretation) happenings.

    And I can assure you it was more than just a simple name change when they bought SNET.

    --
    BytesTemplar.com
  42. Useless fact for the day: by Rangataua · · Score: 1
    The first phone produced by Alexander Graham Bell was supposedly given to James Murray who is most famous as an early editor of the Oxford English Dictionary.

    James Murray was also the man who first introduced and interested Alexander Graham Bell in electricity.

  43. They published their 1890 user directory? by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 1

    Doesn't that violate their privacy policy in some way?

    --
    Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
    Africus aut Europaeus?
    1. Re:They published their 1890 user directory? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      it was 1890... hight of the fat cat corporations...what privacy policy.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    2. Re:They published their 1890 user directory? by avarame · · Score: 1

      Gee, doesn't that just mean they published a phone book? They do it every year...

      --
      Save time now so you can waste it later
  44. SBC a HELLl-hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I did a contract at SBC, and it was a mess. They would not cover the costs of some basic but necessary office supplies. The place was full of H1B's rented from small fly-by-night shops who they knew they could pressure into long hours because the H1B's couldn't sue without deportation risks, and the management was chaotic and jittery. It was Big Company Hell at its worse. It was a souless place.

  45. SBC? Oh thats easy. by Simple-Simmian · · Score: 1

    The stuff will go into dumpsters and the land fill. A bunch of greedier heartless cooperate bastards has rarely been seen.

    --
    If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
    Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
  46. Thanks Michael. That's Great. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Now run along...you were fired from Slashdot because you suck and we all hate you.

  47. Re:A little rabble rousing to stir up the proletar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Visigoths, Vandals, Saxons, Huns, Tartars, Mongols - meh. Small taters the lot of em.

    The worst barbarian sacking was a mild inconvenience when compared to the dreaded looting and pillaging of the Acquisitors of Corporate Cost Accounting.

  48. Re:A little rabble rousing to stir up the proletar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On a quiet, mid-week, moonlit night, an old pickup truck with a large gas tank in the back, but no headlights, quietly pulls up and stops next to an old building. Two men get out and eagerly operate the gas tanks' fuel pump. Just prior to a hasty departure, a glass bottle filled with an inflammable liquid and fitted with a cloth rag in the top, is set ablaze, and tossed through a window, breaking the window and the bottle when it hits the floor. The entire building is consumed. The insurance company evenutally lists the damages to the building at approximately $1,000,000 and to it's contents --all old and no longer functional-- at just over $10,000. Over at SBC, the office of the CFO is still and dark except for moonlight streaming in from a half shaded window. The light falls on a sheet of paper titled 'assets', and highlights a pencil line that has already been drawn through the address of the building. History is lost forever 'due to unfortunate circumstances'. However, 'the events' according to the president at the next fiscal review meeting, 'are probably for the best'.

  49. Re: AT&aT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's an obvious phishing attempt.

  50. Huh. by autopr0n · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I heard once this guy got arrested for trying to buy a taco at taco bell with a $2 bill.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  51. I doubt it will be a problem. by autopr0n · · Score: 1

    Don't forget this is the re-merging of two peices of the same company, Ma Bell. I'm sure SBC has just as much intrest in keeping those archives around.

    --
    autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
  52. AC is safer than DC by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1

    AC is now known to be significantly safer than DC (for comparable current/voltage, obviously) ; Edison BELIEVED AC was more dangerous.

    1. Re:AC is safer than DC by RobNich · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Edison didn't believe that DC was safer, he knew the situation. In addition to being safer, AC doesn't require a transformer on every block for distribution like DC does. Edison knew that AC was better, but Edison didn't own the patent on it. The rivalry between Edison and Tesla was the real cause of this--Tesla invented and marketed AC, Edison patented a DC distribution system. Edison tried to shape public opinion because he knew that his sytem was both less safe and more expensive. Luckily his tactics didn't work.

      --
      Hello little man. I will destroy you!
    2. Re:AC is safer than DC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not quite fair either. It wasn't AC vs DC, it was an AC distribution system vs a DC distribution system. Since there was no way to step DC up and down, it didn't use high voltages.

    3. Re:AC is safer than DC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "AC doesn't require a transformer on every block for distribution like DC does."

      Huh? Besides the fact that you are wrong, have you looked outside lately? Do you think those pole pigs are counterweights??

    4. Re:AC is safer than DC by RobNich · · Score: 1

      The difficulties in transforming DC would have made transformers much larger and more would have been required. For more information, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents.

      So: I am not wrong, I have looked outside lately, and I do not think that pole transformers are counterweights, nor do I think that they are pigs.

      --
      Hello little man. I will destroy you!
  53. I bet this guy would want some of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've met this guy, my friend has been out to his private phone museum in California. It looks like he has lots of old relics, he's getting alot of them up and running too.

    When I met him, he had me call a certain number at his museum with my cell phone, and some kind of device picked up and just gave me a speaker in one of the rooms. Then he called another number with his phone and I could here a mechanical line switcher in the room going to work. Was interesting.

  54. Great application for the capital punishment by vacuum_tuber · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    "They'll drag in the Dumpster," says A. Michael Noll, a communications professor at the University of Southern California and former scientist with AT&T's Bell Labs in Murray Hill. "One thing we know about mergers -- the survivor has to destroy the DNA of the victim. They have to destroy that identity. You can't have people thinking they're still part of AT&T. They're part of SBC."

    What a great application for capital punishment! Destroy historical treasures, get fried. That might give the corporate assholes some pause.

    --
    Look at the bright side: there's always seppuku.
  55. Re:A little rabble rousing to stir up the proletar by Detritus · · Score: 1

    The article is largely true. I've experienced enough corporate mergers and takeovers to have taken note of the speed of which all references to the "loser" disappear. It reminds me of the practice in the Soviet Union of retouching photographs and amending history books when someone important fell out of favor and was "disappeared".

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  56. Here are some documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Some documents of the AT&T archive can be viewed on DjVuZone.

    http://djvuzone.org/djvu/att/archives/index.html.

    Personal favorite: the invention of the transistor.

  57. SBC will assume (the good of) AT&T's past by rlds · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since SBC comes from AT&T's Bell System and there are some achievements that SBC would like to present as their legacy too, SBC will not destroy those archives. Consider that SBC may even assume AT&T's corporate name, in which case that preservation would make even more sense. Yes it's PR, but as SBC and Verizon get bigger and bigger and become a duopoly in communications, having SBC present that legacy as its own is of some business value.

  58. who cares about history by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    In this 'throwaway' society, who cares about historical artifacts.

    Very few of us..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  59. Implications for Google et al. by D4C5CE · · Score: 1
    Usenet archives etc. such as Google Groups (in part formerly known as DejaNews) merit similar considerations: While they are free and as complete an account of the recorded history as possible, the need for similar, alternative archives operating on public funding (to guarantee perpetuity) is not apparent - and therefore occurs only exceptionally (and hardly without constraints), as for websites in the case of the Wayback Machine.

    As soon as there are only one or a few dominant commercial services left, the dangers become obvious (only when it is already too late) if these start to hide part of the messages (e.g. eMail addresses, controversial topics etc.), switch to fee-based or geographically restricted access, or simply discontinue service.

    This may have severe implications not just for historians' access to material a few decades down the road, but also even today, as already shown by some recent cases, e.g. for demonstrating prior art against bogus patents.

  60. SBC and equipement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure they'll dust off half of it and put it to work in my exchange. SBC hates thier rural customers.

  61. Not only mergers... by whitroth · · Score: 1

    Freakin' MBAs and Everything is Business....

    Thirty-five years ago, I worked at the Franklin Institute Research Labs in Philly. The Instritute (a science museum) had a library with things back to its founding in the 1820s.

    The library was open to members (I'd been a member since I was about 12 - didn't cost much.)

    The Labs got themselves a "library research" department. They would get subscriptions to scientific journals it needed for its contracts...then drop them when the contracts ended.

    Then they got complete control of the library. They SOLD OFF a major chunk of those historical books and journals. Gone from the public view. Do I expect less from this merger?

    mark

  62. Most ironic quote award by Leebert · · Score: 1

    From TFA:

    "SBC has demonstrated a commitment to the history of telecommunications," says Sheldon Hochheiser, AT&T's historian until a downsizing last year.

  63. Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF HISTORY ITSELF. *KABOOM!* by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
    Gosh, perhaps it's possible that I was just saying that I doubted SBC would care based on similar (but not equal -- that was your interpretation) happenings. And I can assure you it was more than just a simple name change when they bought SNET.

    Gosh, and perhaps I was just pointing out that the "history" in question WRT AT&T is (in large part) actual stuff. It's not a reasonable comparison to say "look what they did to SNET", because I seriously doubt SNET (being just another RBOC) was sitting on a huge pile of historical artifacts that SBC tossed in a dumpster.

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  64. And their UNIX related material? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a lot of relevant material about the work on Bell Labs, and a lot of available software (GraphViz, etc).

  65. Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF HISTORY ITSELF. *KABOOM!* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    It's not a reasonable comparison to say "look what they did to SNET", because I seriously doubt SNET (being just another RBOC) was sitting on a huge pile of historical artifacts that SBC tossed in a dumpster.

    SNET wasn't just another RBOC, it was the first commercial telephone exchange in the world. And after buying them, SBC has happily described itself as having 125 years of experience. Seems disingenuous to me. Having worked at SNET for a couple summers while it was getting eaten, I can attest that things went to shit, and the CT state attorney general seemed to agree:
    "Even more egregiously, SBC fully admits that these layoffs are not due to SNET's operations, but rather blames overly burdensome regulations in other states. SBC is holding Connecticut workers and customers hostage in attempting to pressure federal and state regulators into relaxing regulations so that SBC can hike its rates in other states," Blumenthal added. "Connecticut workers and customers should not be forced to suffer for SBC's problems elsewhere."

    Suffice it to say, the last summer I was there, one of my coworkers greeted my return by asking, "Why the fuck did you come back?"

    Bear in mind also that while SBC may have once stood for "Southwestern Bell Corporation," the company has changed its official name to reflect that it serves many parts of the nation... by making "SBC" an explicitly meaningless acronym. It doesn't stand for anything anymore. Seems appropriate given the corporate culture; I can only hope they keep AT&T's name.

    As for AT&T's historical archives, I certainly hope SBC won't throw them in the dumpster, but the history will at least be cannibalized to meet SBC's purposes.