Slashdot Mirror
Gates tried to Blackmail Danish Government
mocm writes "The Inquirer has a story about how Bill Gates tried to pressure the Danish prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen into accepting the European Union's proposed directive on software patents by threating to terminate the 800 jobs at Navision, which had been acquired by Microsoft." Update: 02/16 00:41 GMT by T : cfelde points out a CNET story which says that "The European vice president of Microsoft Business Solutions, Klaus Holse Andersen, denied on Tuesday that the jobs at Navision were ever at risk." Believe who you'd like.
That would be extortion, not blackmail.
KTHXBYE
...from heise.de (in German).
Do not be alarmed. This is only a test.
Don't think of it as "Blackmail" so much as "Microsoft Job Incentives"
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
You veel accept ein pahtent deerektive, or your employeess.. vill be terminated!
It'd be a shame if someone was to.. set fire to them.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
this has become standard, at least in the US. Corporations play one state against the other to gain tax breaks, increase dole payments, and other entitlements. These welfare subsidies can net a several hundred dollars of government payments per anticipated position.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Note that this story is also being covered by Groklaw, with some good commentary by Pamela Jones.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)
According to dictionary.com, blackmail is defined as the extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
Whereas extortion is defined as the Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.
Is it not extortion that has occured here?
Mainly it talks about how parts of the IT sector wants to block the contensted directive and how the proponents have been unable to get through due to effective lobbyism from the contensters.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
We are going to get ruled more and more by corporations, rather than governments. Since Microsoft is making more than most American states, they also wield quite a bit of power. And since politicians can always be blackmailed with the prospect of lost jobs (Siemens did that in Germany, and lots of other comapnies too), I wonder how long until our right to vote is transferred to our employers ...
EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
These threats are common. However, is there really any relevant connection between where R&D/software development takes place and where one can apply for patents? Of course not. Nothing is preventing Microsoft from applying for US patents for the things they "invent" in Denmark. The question of where they can get a patent is not intrinsically linked to where they do their development.
IAAAL - I am actually a lawyer
Hmm... Let's weigh the options for the Danish government:
1. Loss of approximately 800 jobs
2. Implement stifling patent policies that will likely make Microsoft and other massive patent holders even more wealthy while crippling innovation within their country.
I wonder which one they should pick?
I'm a big tall mofo.
I've heard this kind of logic from the patent lobby numerous times:
"If we don't get software patents in Europe, we can't develop stuff there. We have to develop in in the US where we have software patents available."
This is pure FUD and BS. Why can't we develop stuff in Europe and apply for patents in the US? Most of the technology in patent applications in Europe was developed in foreign countries.
The smart thing to do is to develop tech where you have smart people. And apply for software patents in the US and have a free market without software monopolies in Europe. If you develop a product that happen to infringe on a forest of software patents, you can only market it profitably in Europe. Too bad for the US.
I hope politicians learn to call this kind of extortionist bluff soon.
)9TSS
I'm beginning to believe that what I read in sci-fi will come true (ie: in the future, mankind is ruled by corporations that want to make money).
And even more scary is the fact that for one extortion of that kind we hear of, numbers of other extortions of the same kind happen and we never hear about it. Brrr.
Gates said that he's displeased with the process of political decisions on software patents in the european union. In particular, he seems to be unhappy about the successful opposition by many european IT companies and software developers.
He further claims that Microsoft can secure their rights better in the USA.
I call BS on that: if Microsoft relocates Navision to the USA, they can patent there all they want, but guess what, their patents won't mean squat in Europe without the possibility to patent software in the EU.
Do not be alarmed. This is only a test.
Couldn't Microsoft just buy Denmark?
Converting all Danish government IT away from MS towards OSS will surely bring far more than 800 jobs and KEEP those in the country.
Go read some Gibson "Cyberpunk" books to see what you get if you let corporations run the world.
Just my 5€Cents.
Surely they purchased the company for a reason. The staff would have been part fo that reasons.
Laying off that many staff in a fit of pique would create a perfect opportunity for a competitor to set up a company that does pretty much the same thing with the same employees.
please wake up. it's "we, the corporations of the USA"
Privacy is terrorism.
No, not me. I've never worked for Navision and can't recall anyone I know (personally) who's done so.
However, a while back (before her marriage to our crown prince) our crown princess did work for Navision.
I can't help but wonder if Bill Gates would have dared threaten to close the workplace of an upcoming queen...
It's 19:11:42. Do You Know Where Your Meat Body Is?
How mafioso
Software patents are largely bullshit, however there is nothing nefarious about a business negotiating with government for an optimal business environment. If Bill Gates really thinks that software patents are necessary for a business unit to be viable in a political region, then he has every legitimate right to express that. The government has the right to tell him to go screw himself, and if he really thinks it's do or die then he can pull out.
This sort of tactic is absolutely classic in many other business areas. Automakers these days only build plants where the government will concede to their demands, as well as often offering up hundreds of millions in incentives.
Back at the peaceful Simpsons house. Homer is reading "Internet for Dummies".
HOMER
Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!
MARGE
Homer, Bill Gates is here.
HOMER
Bill Gates?! Millionaire computer nerd Bill Gates! Oh my god. Oh my god. Get out of sight, Marge. I don't want this to look like a two-bit operation.
Marge groans and rolls her eyes. Bill Gates and two "associates" enter.
GATES
Mr. Simpson?
HOMER
You don't look so rich.
GATES
Don't let the haircut fool you, I am exceedingly wealthy.
HOMER
(quietly to Marge) Get a load of the bowl-job, Marge!
GATES
Your Internet ad was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if anything, CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet does, so rather than risk competing with you, I've decided simply to buy you out.
Homer and Marge step aside to talk privately.
HOMER
This is it Marge. I've poured my heart and soul into this business and now it's finally paying off. (covering his mouth) We're rich! Richer than astronauts.
MARGE
Homer quiet. Acquire the deal.
HOMER
(to Gates) I reluctantly accept your proposal!
GATES
Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
Bill Gates companions begin to trash the "office".
HOMER
Hey, what the hell's going on!
GATES
Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!
Bill Gates lets out a maniacal laugh. Homer and Marge cower in the corner as the room continues to be trashed.
The only way this could be construed as immoral or objectionable activity is if you accept the premiss that Microsoft's monopoly dominance is absolute and that there are no acceptable alternatives
Actually, this has nothing to do with monopolies. It's immoral because Gates is threatening to lay people off. 800 people out of work is not something a politician wants, nor does it help an economy. What Gates was doing was using the 800 employees welfare as leverage which is immoral.
Jason Lotito
The only way this could be construed as immoral or objectionable activity...
Rubbish. I'll decide what I do and don't find objectionable, thank you. I find threatening people's livelihoods in order to bully their governments into enacting the legislation you want to be very highly objectionable.
Describing natural consequences of legislation is acceptable. That isn't what they are doing here. The place in which software is developed has no impact on whether it is patentable in any given market. This is a threat, pure and simple, it's a threat against innocent employees as a way of pressuring others, and it should be resisted.
To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
Here's something I wrote the other day, which seems particularly appropriate now this story has come out:
The Cast:
- Mr. Gates
- A European Commissioner
The SketchA `customer' (with brown envelopes and chequebook aready) enters the €C in Brussels.
Mr. Gates: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(The commisioner does not respond.)
Mr. Gates: 'Ello, Miss?
Commissioner: What do you mean "miss"?
Mr. Gates: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
Commissioner: We're closin' for lunch.
Mr. Gates: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this patent law what I purchased not two years ago from this very office.
Commissioner: Oh yes, the, uh, the computer-implemented inventions one...What's, uh...What's wrong with it?
Mr. Gates: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Commissioner: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
Mr. Gates: Look, matey, I know a dead patent law when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Commissioner: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable law, idn'it, ay? Beautiful sophistory and ambiguity!
Mr. Gates: The anbiguity don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Commissioner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!
Mr. Gates: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up!
...
Mr. Gates: You let the European Parliament kill 'im, didn't you!
Commissioner: I never!!
Mr. Gates: Yes, you did!
Commissioner: I never, never did anything...
(Mr. Gates takes patent law out of briefcase and thumps it on the desk. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)
contd...(due to limit on post size)
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
The Sketch (contd...)
Mr. Gates: Now that's what I call a dead patent law. The JURI is no longer out on that patent law...its most definitely deceased.
Commissioner: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!
Mr. Gates: STUNNED?!?
Commissioner: Yeah! 'E was stunned by all the public backlash! Patent laws stun easily, major.
Mr. Gates: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That patent law is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not two years ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following prolonged internal diplomacy.
Commissioner: Well...uhhh...we prefer to do things dead slow and sure like in the EU!
Mr. Gates: Well...the dead bit is most certainly right. Look, why did it fall flat on his back the moment I got home last time? I never had these problems with Congress...
Commissioner:Remarkable patent law, id'nit, squire? Lovely contradictions and those beautiful convoluted sentences!
Mr. Gates: Look, I took the liberty of examining that patent law when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had got as far as it had in the first place was that no one had actually READ it.
(pause)
Commissioner: Well, o'course they don't! They're not payed enough for that...at least they are, but we pay 'em NOT to read 'em. That's the trick, you see. Trust me...that patent law will fly straight through as an A-item in the fisheries committee...just like...a parrot, sir...you know parrots love a bit of fish...the great thing is, sir, that the ministers and MEPs avoid it like the plague on account of it stinkin' to 'igh 'eaven...
Mr. Gates: Never find how 'igh your damn committee stinks, this patent law wouldn't fly through your committee if you put four million volts through every minister present! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Commissioner: No no! 'E's just a li'l slow!
Mr. Gates: 'E's not slow! 'E's passed on! This patent law is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'E's pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked thebucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PATENT LAW!!
(pause)
Commissioner: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek round the back) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back , and uh, we're right out of patent laws.
Mr. Gates: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Commissioner: I got a HIPC initiative. Uhhh...your good...ummm...friend, Mr. Brown had this idea you see but he hasn't got the means...
(pause)
Mr. Gates: (sweetly) Pray, will it take out my competitors?
Commissioner: Nnnnot really.
Mr. Gates: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Commissioner: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)
Mr. Gates: Well.
(pause)
Commissioner: (quietly) You know I thought that uhhh...spread in Teen Beat was rather good...uhhh...D'you.... d'you want to come back to my place?
Mr. Gates: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.
Copyright
The original dead parrot sketch was written by Graham Chapman, et. al. for Monty Python's Flying Circus and is © 1989 Pantheon Books/Random House, Inc. My modification of it is co
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
As for Martha, had she tried those stunts, I'm sure that the DoJ would be happy to add bribery (maybe extortion) charges and her shareholders would've sued her to powder. There is supposed to be separation between the legislative, executive and judicial branches of govt in the US. And an independant judiciary (incl prosecutors) most everywhere else.
Generally, something "arm twisting" like this is commonly considered "racketeering", meaning "if you don't do what we/I want, 'something bad' is going to happen".
stuff |
Change the players to something more politically correct, like a Hybrid Car factory, and watch exactly the same thing play out. Big companies always look to put their people, their money, and their wake-generating activity in a place (or tax framework) that best suits their bottom line. Why do you suppose that Japanese car manufacturers have partnership plants in Kentucky? Because Michigan was out of room? No, because they dangled issues like jobs in front of political decision makers, and the best deal won. Did the editors of this posting just fall off a turnip truck or something? That headline is gratuitous. Come on, now.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Just as soon as it reboots...any second now...is the Deathstar back up yet? Damned 14 year old hackers!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Given the trend of governments, especially those in the EU, toward use of FOSS to run their bureaucracies, I would expect that a ploy by Microsoft like the one reported could blow up in their face. What would stop Rassmussen from saying to Gates "OK, you fire the 800 programmers. While they are looking for work, we will fund their unemployment insurance with the money we save by dumping Microsoft OS and Office products. In fact, maybe some of those displaced workers would not mind helping us install and configure Linux, Firefox and Open Office in all our departments." The Danes are not noted for caving in to aggressive ulitmatims.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Couldn't Microsoft just buy Denmark?
Hmm, let's see ... Denmark's biggest bridge, that's about 6 billion USD right there? You do the math.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Why not restrict software patents to smaller start up companies? For a 7 year patent time or so?
These large corporations dont seem to help humanity in any way. Cutting of jobs, threatening governments? It's getting out of control.
Smaller businesses, on the other hand, could produce more jobs and don't jam up the justice system suing anyone against them.
Your logic is astounding --- I guess we have no grounds to ojbect or complain about anything unless it violates a natural human right. Now genius, why not define natural human right for us.
Here is one for you. The corporation doesn't have a natural right to make a profit, nor use the roads that taxpayers pay for, nor the airwaves for communications that are owned by the people, etc. etc. etc. You corporate apologists make me want to puke.
Unfortunately, multi-national corporations have a great deal to gain with such practices, and their expected value is actually fairly high, even taking into account the legal fees, fines and embarrassment of getting caught now and again.
Unfortunately, the public, as compared to the vested business interests, is generally apathetic, since they have less to lose individually, than the corporations. This means that the corporations will merely continue their efforts until the public loses interest and they succeed in converting their selfish desires into government policy. This may take years, but they have the focus to see it through to the end.
In the particular case, software patents, there has been public outcry in Europe against them and the politicians have generally listened. Each time we think the issue is close some massive business entity resurrects the discussion, in spite of the public opinion. Obviously this hasn't yet met with success and now Microsoft is attempting some innovative (sic) and repulsive tactics.
What should we as individuals do?
- Spread the word and name names. Tell your friends,
your co-workers, you boss, or even better, your
neighbor the elected official, that Microsoft has
attempted to co-opt the democratic process in
Denmark.
- Wite letters to newspapers, journals, and elected
officials explaining why software patents are a
bad idea in Europe.
- Vote with your feet. Stop buying/using products
from companies that engage in unfair
business and political practices.
- Donate to the EFT, Groklaw and other similar
institutions.
- Remain vigilant.
If you dont know much about the arguments surrounding software patents, have a look at: http://www.nosoftwarepatents.comNote: I'm not against big business, provided they play fair. Unfortunately, my experience has been that large corporations tend to use their size advantages in ways that make it difficult for smaller (and in many cases more innovative) business to compete. It's up to the small guy to fight back (in a fair way :).
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.
You see, sw patents are only a problem when you are starting up new business - if you are IBM (or Microsoft to some extent) already, then they are useful.
My point here being, that software patents are only 'stifling' if you intend to start up new business.
And you are only likely to realize this, if you realize that starting up new businesses is important for an economy to grow.
Back in the late '90s our government found out that Denmark should be a country of innovation, a high-tech economy so to speak - we cannot compete with china on industrial production costs anyway. So, in order to "boost" research they shut down the only government super computing center we had, sending researchers elsewhere to go beg for computing power.
To further strenghten our position as a nation of researchers and scientists, we have one of the most expensive but crappiest primary school systems in the western world - which is one thing, but the fact that anyone refuses to do anything about it underlines how important it is to the government to really position our country with a high-tech economy. Or not...
Copyright law was changed last year, to make it illegal to use or develop debuggers and disassemblers. I wrote to the minister in change of that decision letting him know that I and anyone else developing software would be breaking that law. Got some bullshit answer back which didn't address the problem, so now I'm practicing my right to "civil disobedience" every day on the job, along with everyone else in the software business in this country...
800 jobs is money right here right now. "Stifling" is in the eye of the beholder. For a government which is determined to break any initiative or start-up business, either indirectly thru neglect or directly thru law, it seems like it is not such a tough decision to make.
Oh, and add a photo opportunity with Bill and it's a done deal.
Navision was a successful company bought by Microsoft (last year if my memory serves me right, but could be wrong about that). Gates (and Microsoft) hasn't created it and even less sustained it. Their own work did that.
You mean the ones Gates himself employs?
Yes. As so many have already explained, this is a disgusting threat because where software is produced doesn't have any correlation to legal protection it has in market in which it sells.
Thank you for providing such a clear, coherent, well thought out argument for the legalization of racketeering, extortion and blackmail. You must be most proud of yourself.
Chuck
If I had to make a guess, I'd say one of two things actually happened - First BillG may have threatened to MOVE the company, which isn't quite the same as firing them all but it just about as bad morally. Unfortunately, companies do this all the time, especially manufacturing companies - hell, its half the reason auto makers have unions.
The second option is that he was planning on axing the workforce for valid business reasons and offered to throw them a bone and keep it open if the PM supported software patents.
Neither is too many shades better than the extortion reported in the article, but both are common tactics in the business world. Personally, I think we should say screw them all to all the companies that try to pull off BS stunts like this. Starting with Microsoft.
Navision historically has sold its wares in europe. So patent/copyright laws in europe are very much relevant in europe.
Also, the denmark office was an aquisition which afaik is a separate company, Microsoft Business Solutions, that may be incorporated separately in Denmark for historical reasons.
let's be clear - I definitely think gates is saying something along the lines of "if you're not going to make an effort to protect software, i wont make an effort to continue investing in your economy". That seems like a reasonable thing to say, doesn't it ?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Our prime minister has officially denied that Bill Gates supposedly "threatened" him.
How can we repay the Polish and Danish governments - in _real_ terms - involving patent-free software?
ideas, anyone?
This is a translation of the article at Børsen.
The founder of the world's largest software development company, Bill Gates, is now ready to close Navision in Denmark and move the approximately 800 developers behind Denmark's largest software success to USA.
This was made clear by the Microsoft boss when he met with prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, minister of economy and business Bendt Bendtsen, and the minister of science Helge Sander in November.
The threat may become reality if parts of the IT business succeed in blocking a disputed EU directive about software patents that means the world for Microsoft to have passed. Approval of directive has repeatedly been delayed by the opponents' effective lobbying.
"If I am to maintain my development center in Denmark, the rights question must be settled. Otherwise I will move it to USA, where I can protect my rights," Bill Gates said according to Microsoft's chief legal counsel Marianne Wier, who also took part in the meeting with Anders Fogh Rasmussen.
Bill Gates acquired the Danish development department that is based on the fusion of the two IT companies Navision and Damgaard for about 12 billion kroner [approx $2.1 Bn] in 2002.
It has not been possible to get prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen to elaborate on how he reacted to the strong message from Bill Gates.
It's not the US...
Losing your job doesn't mean risking bankruptcy if you become sick and there are very generous social programs in Denmark to ease the transition from one job to another. I'm not saying being laid off is not a big deal but it is lower on the Richter scale. So because the Danes are less dependent on corporate largesse, they can also more easily ignore this type of corporate blackmail (albeit at the cost of higher taxes for some...)
In response to the "so what?" posts, let's play a game:
Suppose I, catbeller, in my civilian life, told a representative of Microsoft that I would personally unemploy, say, his family members by making a couple of phone calls, barring his cooperation in paying me a few million dollars, and signing a few contracts granting me much power.
How long until the armored black farmboys smash my door down with a ram? How long would I be in FMITA prison?
But Microsoft can do it. And no one is responsible. The corporation has civil rights as an individual, but has no civil obligations. Even if a crime is somehow proven, no one goes to jail, not for theft of billions, Enron style, or death of thousands, Dupont/Bhopal style.
All power and priviledge, no responsibilty for its own actions. The very thing that makes conservatives quiver: no consequences for individuals for their own actions. Fake corporate "persons" front for real people committing real crimes. The current setup is organized crime.
I've come to the conclusion that corporate personhood is a concept that has to be eliminated. People should answer for their crimes. If Bill made the decision to extort the Danes, then he should have to answer for it at a trial after extradition from the U.S. But in the real world...
All right, this is where I step in...
Just to get the preliminaries out of the way: I am a Dane and an historian. That means that, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, you should assume that I know what I'm talking about here.
Now, the parent of this thread presents several hypothetical ideas regarding this (although they look more like assertions, given the tone of the post):
1) One would expect Microsoft's ploy to "blow up in their faces".
2) The Danish PM Anders Fogh Rasmussen could respond by adopting non-MS software in government departments, as a retaliatory measure.
3) Anders Fogh Rasmussen might conceivably do so.
4) "Danes are not noted for caving in to agressive ultimatums".
Those are the points I'm going to address.
Short version:
No. Never in a million years. Forget it. End of story.
Long version:
The flights of fancy presented above represent a glorious mix of misinformed wishful thinking. While I suppose I ought to be quite flattered by the picture they paint of Danes, the fact is that they are, historically and contemporarily/politically, simply untrue.
Let me respond to each of these points individually:
1) One would expect Microsoft's ploy to "blow up in their faces".
Why? When has Microsoft (or any other major corporation) ever suffered a serious and permanent backlash from using strong-arm tactics? Small setbacks, yes - but what reason would Bill Gates have for believing that such an outcome is in any way likely?
2) The Danish PM Anders Fogh Rasmussen could respond by adopting non-MS software in government departments, as a retaliatory measure.
No. The Danish PM doesn't have that sort of comprehensive influence over government purchasing policies. Certainly, he could push for legislation in such matters, and instruct his cabinet to push for adoption of non-MS solutions within their ministries, but even if he were likely to do so (which he isn't, see point 3) the time frame for a switch-over would be long. The wheels of bureaucracy grind slowly.
3) Anders Fogh Rasmussen might conceivably do so.
No, he wouldn't. In fact, I don't hesitate to use the word "inconceivable" in that context. Rasmussen is a liberal-right ("liberal" in the Danish context meaning "laissez-faire capitalist") politician, and his entire political career is built on the conviction that free market forces and less government are the panaceas whereby all economic and social evils will be eradicated. In fact, I think he actually believes that. For ideological reasons alone, it is highly improbable that he would do so.
Leaving aside the ideology, Fogh Rasmussen would be a pretty irresponsible public official if he chose the path of outright confrontation. Such a move could (and would) be interpreted by the U.S. as a form of protectionism, and become the opening move in a trade war. No responsible PM would involve his country in such a situation. He'd be more likely to knuckle under.
4) "Danes are not noted for caving in to agressive ultimatums".
It pains me to say this, but this is relatively untrue. Although Denmark has sometimes resisted ultimatums (such as the British demand that Denmark surrender her navy in 1801), the fact is that any confrontation has eventually led to the Danes capitulating and giving the foe what he wanted. We didn't invent the term "appeasement", but by damn, we live it.
The parent post cites the Danish evacuation of the Jews in 1943 as an example of Danish refusal to cave in - but the evacuation was largely carried out by private individuals. The government was not involved in any significant degree. In fact, when Denmark was invaded in 1940, the government rapidly chose to capitulate and enter into a policy of cooperation with the Nazis. Honestly, the only reason Denmark was not treated as a collaborator nation after t
- Peter Ravn Rasmussen
It took me about ten seconds after posting for a little niggling voice at the back of my mind to tell me that I'd better check my facts. The following paragraph in my preceding post is completely wrong:
Turns out, my memory had played a trick on me and I'd swapped a couple of names. True to the classic image of SS men, Werner Best was not a good guy. In fact, he was the individual who recommended implementing the "resolution of the Jewish problem in Denmark". Although his overall behaviour with regard to occupied Denmark was lenient, he certainly was not a good guy.
The actual hero of the day was Georg Duckwitz, of the German Embassy in Copenhagen. He was responsible for matters dealing with shipping, and he gave warning of the impending operation to Danish contacts.
*sigh*
Oh well, I suppose that mess-up sort of undermines my credibility - though I do think that I should get credit for issuing an immediate correction.
In any case, this little historical quibble has no bearing on the actual matter of Fogh Rasmussen's likely response to MS strong-arm tactics. But then again, you probably don't need me to tell you that politicians tend to cave in to pressure from big business...
- Peter Ravn Rasmussen