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Stonehenge Version 2.0 Completed
Antarctic Lemur writes "The Stonehenge project previously mentioned has been completed near Wellington, New Zealand. This newer version utilises multiple ancient astronomical technologies (scroll down) and the BBC reports it is wired for sound."
There can be only one!
Tourism.
Yeah!
I've been waiting for 2.0 for a long time now!
Finally out of the RC stage!
nothing, thats why they had to make this new one.
-
What's it good for? It's a practical joke that takes 4000 years to hatch. I'm sure we can all respect that. Imagine what kind of nutty stories they will come up with. "The people of the early 21 century used to sacrifice virgins here." Haha, it is the funnay.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Before building it, remember that ' is feet and " is inches.
let's see how many people notice anything weird
Bleh, this is nothing compared to Car Henge in Nebraska.
Screw astronomy. It's about used cars, man!
Eddie Izzard will have to update his routine now...
It's a testament to the fundamental principles of the ancient methodologies of astronomy, that you can actually go in to and look at. I've never been do the one in Salisbury, but from what I've heard of it you're not allowed to go near the rocks, let alone inside.
Unfortunately, Micro$oft already had a patent on it.
You wanted it 18'???
But look here you wrote down 18"
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
Stonehenge
;)
Where the demons dwell
Where the banshees live
And they do live well
Stonehenge
Where a man is a man
And the children dance to
The pipes of pan
Stonehenge
'Tis a magic place
Where the moon doth rise
With a dragon's face
Stonehenge
Where the virgins lie
And the prayer of devils
Fill the midnight sky
And you my love
Won't you take my hand
We'll go back in time
To that mystic land
Where the dew drops cry
And the cats meow
I will take you there
I will show you how
Stonehenge by Spinal Tap
Sorry, couldn't resist...
.. and you're in or near washington state, you might want to check out the concrete version in maryhill washington. It was built as a WWI memorial by the 'eccentric' Sam Hill after he was mistakenly told that the original Stonehenge was used for sacrifices.
its not terribly accurate, and its not 'wired for sound', but its kinda cool none-the-less.
air and light and time and space
Generating profits from tourism, for one.
No, no. Us 21 century folks used to deflower virgins there. It's a circular, central location for, you know, services...and some summer solstice crap.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
But Google told me it was still Beta! Dammit Google, you and your subnet trial features...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
It looks like it's made from plywood or some other material (not stone), from the pictures in the original wired article. Had they built the thing from real stone, it would last as long as the original Stonehenge - but given the price of such huge rocks, and the difficulty of building things with it, I can't say I blame them.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
I wonder how heavy the security patches are.
Ahhhhh, STONE! HENGE! Whaattt is it good for? Absolutly Nothin'! Say it again y'all!!!....
he would still wonder what in Sam Hill it was for.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Seeing as how we're not a barbaric society any longer, they should just send them my way.
1) study pagamisn and virgin sacrfices
3) create replica of Stonehenge
4) ?????
5) Profit
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
crap forgot
2) wonder how to pay off student loans
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
right here under Archaeoastronomy and Stonehenge
We're still apparently not too sure what the point of these stones is but it seems credible to think that it certainly has something to do with lunar and solar alignments. Right?
There is already a patent on stonehenge dammit. It is covered under international patent law.
America invented stone. And henges.
I want my own henge. I'll even settle for one made of cheese.
Version 2.0-RC1
Illegal? Samir, This is America.
Let me understand ... one of the dominant pastimes of the slashdot communal consciousness is playing computer games, and you have the audacity to ask What is it good for??
Well, if nothing else it's an excuse to go visit the big room with the blue ceiling. And since Kiwi summers are during winter for the vast majority of us, it sounds like a great time to enjoy their version of the big room while our neighbors are up to their tits in snowbanks.
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
...I read the book.
Mainly because my old local pub is smack in the middle of the circle. Ah, the days of sipping Wadworths 6X in the summer garden!
There are several circles similar to Stonehenge in the area around Wiltshire, one not so well known circle is Woodhenge, which is a few miles north east of Stonehenge just past Amesbury. The whole area is full of barrows and free-standing stones. A lot of them are in the middle of farm land which makes it difficult to get to, and there are a lot of ancient forts around too.
One funny thing I remember, walking past the entry gates to the stones one saturday morning walking the dog and there was a bus of American tourists doing the rounds, and I actually overheard one say "It's nice, but why did they have to build it so close to the road"...
Something that a lot of people don't realise about the circle is that a lot of the stones were moved around a lot during the early part of the 20th century. Six stones were set up-right in 1918 from their horizontal positions by the office of works and the stones were closed off to the public. They've also been moved backwards and forwards to London for inspection and maintenance a couple of times in the past, they certainly haven't been standing untouched for the last 3000 years!
Task Mangler
That way when humanity is dead and gone and the original stonehenge has crumbled to dust, the alien species that finds our planet will know that someone was here. They'll STILL conclude that there was never any intelligent life on the planet, but they'll damn well know someone was here!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Driving past the original Stonehenge, one gets to see many hedge monkeys, you know the sort, unwashed and all that. I wonder if the replica with have kiwi monkeys instead?
Precession must have some bearing on Stonehenge, and it looks like one hell of a thing to have to calibrate.
What does this button do...
Stonehenge is one of those things i always like to see on discovery channel shows.
I think it's fascinating that it's hard to figure out what's the deal exactly. I wonder if this will happen with anything of our age in like 5000 years.
Sample this!
Did they include extra bugs to be fixed when we buy the 3.0 upgrade?
Don't need to mod me up there.
It's a silly article and I was replying in kind.
I am concerned about unwanted influences sullying its image.
You mean the image you just created of it? It sounds like an inexpensive replica of Stonehenge (the thing only cost about $40,000 US dollars to construct). It sounds more like a tourist trap than some kind of national treasure. If a bunch of hippies, wiccans, and new age nutters want to do a bunch of mumbo-jumbo at this place and they pay just like anyone else, who cares?
AccountKiller
Near Goldendale, Washington there is a full-scale replica of Stonehenge that's made out of concrete. It was built in 1918 by a concrete tycoon named Sam Hill as a memorial for those who died in WWI, and is said to be the most accurate Stonehenge replica in the United States. There's also an observatory nearby with one of the country's largest public-access telescopes. Pretty interesting place to stop if you are going through Washington in the summer.
It seems pretty clear to me that the what is going to stump the archeologists in 5000 years is our skyscraper foundations and what's left of our amazing superhighways.
that building in the upper left corner of the model is a representation of the Amazon.com headquarters, btw.
Someday in the far future, people will worship this and marvel at the exquisite craftsmanship, while others argue whether the astronomical alignments are coincidences (as they must be, since they could not have known some of the alignments without advanced astronomical knowledge) or actual (because such precise alignments are impossible to be coincidences).
Maybe stonehenge 1.0 was the original prank meme?
What is definitely cool is that after it snows, the so-called "Avenue" is revealed. Here's one link: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/filestore/stone hengeinteractivemap/timetravel.html
Don't you mean FrontHenge?
We gonna do Stonehenge tomorrow?
No mod points, no meta-moderating/Firehose/all the other free work Slashdot wants me to do.
It is a well-known fact that hippies, wiccans, and other undesirables congregate around the orignal Stonehenge in England, which is seen as a source of cosmic mystical power and other such mumbo-jumbo.
Sir, I invite you to take a World Religions course at your local community college. It might open your eyes a bit.
There are "undesireables", by which I hope you mean "people who use the name of the religion without understanding" in every religion.
As far as I am aware, no wiccans have ever gone to war and slaughtered entire civilizations over their religion. So whatever you may or may not believe in, saying that someone is undesireable because they prefer to visit a place of spiritual importance to them, is well, quite ignorant, and I am suprised you were modded up for it.
~Rebecca
learn from yesterday, plan for tomorrow, party tonight
or one out of three ain't bad
...when stonehenge is being discussed, is that a few hundred miles away in Dublin, Ireland, there is a megalithic tomb that is far older than stonehenge and the pyramids, and still functions today as an astrological calender. It illuminates internally only twice a year, on the longest and shortest days of the year.
Certainly Stonehenge is impressive, I find it far more impressive that a 5000 year old tomb with clock function still works even today. resources
Maybe this is a bit off topic, but please do not visit the real Stonehenge. It sucks. I went there expecting to see these massive three story boulders, shrouded in fog and an aura of mysteriousness. Needless to say the "boulders" were significantly less than three stories high, there was no fog, and a sense of mystique was noticeably absent. Overall, i'd say it was an experience comparable to being kicked in the nuts.
The welsh were the likly culprits who erected the first stone henge (well THE stone henge) as noted hyah, hyah, and hyah (cartman)
.nz's are building one of these too...
5005 years ago.
Welsh builder: alrigh' butty, you see we is going to be building dis 'ere, ok now, tell me again, what the fuck are these big sticky out ones
Foreman: stones...
Welsh builder: aye, stoaoaoaones. we have some of them in the valley. OK, whose coat is that jacket?
Foreman: listen how long with this take?
Welsh builder: not long, I have to be home to watch the sheep dog trials you see. Want some lavabread?
Foreman: So I hear the
Welsh builder: what!? you don't say, well I'll finish this one first is my name is not daffydddd myffanwwwyy evans-jones.
Foreman: ok look, gerrard, how long is this rouse going to last, your NOT FUCKING WELSH.
Gerrard: eeeh, you fooking enleesh piiig. I speet on your choontree.
Foreman: choontree?
Gerrard: Cooon-treee.
Foreman: cooowwwn--treeez?
Gerrard: oh for pete sake old chap, country, bloody country, ok, fuck, i'd do anything not to be a plain old brit, this stiff upperlip is giving me sever jip.
Foreman: right, look lively, lovely jub.
Gerrard: cockney fucker.
-----------
Of course, this transcript from the discovery channel has not been verified, but the maxell cassettes did look old.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
In ancient times
Hundreds of years before the dawn of history
Lived a strange race of people
The Druids
No-one knows who they were
Or what they were doing
But their legacy remains
Hewn into the living rock
Of Stonehenge
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Unfortunately it was ever thus. There are some really ancient monuments on Malta and Gozo which are far more impressive - the Maltese one even has some of the carving still visible. Last time I was there I was really upset and embarrassed because I had to tell a group of US tourists to stop climbing on the stones. They had no idea how to behave on archaeological sites, or that they were doing damage.
At one time it was seriously suggested that the real Stonehenge be closed off to the public and replaced with a concrete replica. Perhaps this is the answer to all valuable ancient monuments: make accurate replicas for tourists, ban the general public from the real sites and only allow access to people who can prove, perhaps by taking some sort of test, that they have a bona fide interest in the subject and understand that monuments must be treated with care for their own protection.
Does it go to eleven?
That's probably because Wicca didn't exist before the 1950s. Actual pagans, i.e. the people who lived in Europe prior to spread of Christianity, were just as brutal and violent as anyone else. The pagans of the British Isles and Scandinavia were very much a warrior society, hardly the vegetarian tree huggers that make up modern 'pagan' groups.
*Start deep mysterious voice*
"This is God speaking... did you know you can get a 2 for 1 Big Mac meal at the Stonehenge McDonalds. Hurry - offer can't last!"
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
I haven't worn a watch or cared what day it is let alone what time it is for the past 19 years. It amazes me how many folks I know that don't know how to look up at the sky or at shadows and tell what time it is. If you want to know what time of the year it is, stand outside for a few minutes and sense the weather, the air, the brush... Maybe the important of Stonehedge is to get folks to pay more attention to the world around us and less to the overwhelmingly growing 40-65% of net income being spent on rent or a huge mortgage.
--- Old Time NeXThead
Nice one, argument by authority: Einstein believed in God, therefore God exists. May I suggest a course in simple logic?
The vast majority of those who claim not to believe, and in particular those who pretend to have difficulty comprehending Creationism , are generally the less intelligent and less well educated members of our species.
Huh? do you have some source reference to back this up? I would probably imagine the opposite to be true, just thinking of the masses of extremely fanatically religous, uneducated people around the world disproves your argument.
This thing may have all sorts of unlikely stellar alignments in it, but that too is almost certainly nothing like the original, which has a few solar alignments.
3/10. Must try harder.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
I present to you: Cheesehenge!
archaeologists will puzzle over the following facts: ... puzzling!
1. the muliple existences of several similar yet different looking henges (that carhenge.com is cool!)
2. each henge while similar is different in construction material
3. while religion may have played a part in their construction, astronomy was most likely the major reason for its construction
4. only one of the henges are accurately aligned, the rest are
_ In Egypt Networks: Network Solutions with a Twist
And if Einstein told you to jump off a cliff would you do it ?
I am hoping yes.
The University of Missouri at Rolla has a half-scale version of Stonehenge on campus. (See http://web.umr.edu/~stonehen/) This one is constructed from solid granite, not easily eroded sandstone (like the original), nor wood, drywall, and sprayed concrete (like the one in New Zealand). Sam Hill built his version of Stonehenge in Maryhill, Washington before anyone knew much about the original and so it has no astronomical alignments; UMR Stonehenge has additional features and alignments beyond the original.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
There already is a Stonehenge II, in: Hunt, TX
Astronomy is the oldest of sciences.
It's not the oldest profession though.
Don't worry, since it is in New Zealand, it is upside down and won't work.
Whatever you are smoking, I want none of it.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
We use the same logic to explain you upside down screwed-up Northern Hemispherites. :-)
And it still can't run Longhorn.
I like the idea of creating modern wonders- equivalents of the pyramids or stonhenge for today. We've got all of our technology and power, but we've built very little that is absolutely monumental. ...But the execution of this one seems a little lame. Why merely imitate an existing structure? And what is it made out of? I think James Turrell's work in Roden Crater in Arizona is much more interesting...
Stonehenge was nearly crushed by dwarves...
(for all us ST fans out here)
Quotes:
"Religion requires one to ignore certain observable and empirically testable and confirmable realities."
"all religions -- are based on nothing more than faith in an unsubstantiated, and unverifiable, 'Higher Power'"
As I am religious and my religion strongly engourages checking and verifying any purported truth in any circumstance, including official church statements; I would like to let people know that the parent poster is either dishonest or uninformed. I would prefer to believe the latter, since it's eaiser to correct.
Another Quote: "It's all based on fear and hope"
Religion aside, what do people run their lives on that isn't based on fear and hope?
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
theres an older creation called woodhenge, which i made the mistake of visiting. complete waste of time though cos wood rots. so i drove an hour from stonehenge to see concrete stumps in a field of sheep. quite the let down. yes this is off topic mod me down
A Curious Phenomenon
Recently there has been a discovery of a curious phenomenon deep in the deciduous woods of Southern Illinois. In the midst of the underbrush there is a clearing revealing a circle of short wooden tree-stump-like structures. In the middle of that circle there is a post-and-lintel structure. The entire circular configuration is oriented toward the exact point at which the sun rises on the day of the summer solstice.
Who built this structure? And for what purpose? To what end? A primitive calendar? A center of worship? A lost tribe?
Woodhenge: A mystery that continues to cloud the American brain.
no, finally out of the BC stage ...
Let me see if I got this straight - we've managed to slashdot a bloody great pile of concrete and chicken wire.
Or was it merely trod on by a dwarf?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Better make sure your altitude stays below 2,000 feet...
that Stonehenge 1 is, itself, a reconstruction, right? It was just a pile of tipped and fallen stones until a bunch of British archaeologists got together and rebuilt it according to their best guess of what it originally looked like.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
Its even "wired for sound" I mean, back in the day all barbarism meant was bizarre pagan rites and human sacrifice.
In the 2.0 world it means overcommercialization... I can see it all now: paying $5.49 for a "Stonehenge-dog" and being able to buy T-shirts, lunchboxes, and all sorts of other 'Henge memoribilia. And don't forget how the kids will love watching that adorble plush mascot "Mr. Hengie" in his zany new Saturday morning cartoon show. Barbaric, isn't it?
BTW, Some of us live "off campus" others live "off topic".
-- Just another unsolicited opinion... from the Peanut Gallery.
If you follow the line of Winter Solstice sunrise out of the chamber of Newgrange, it will eventually intersect with Stonehenge. What's more, this line continues through megalithic sites in Malta and on towards Giza . . . More at: http://www.newgrangeireland.com/
Huh? do you have some source reference to back this up? I would probably imagine the opposite to be true, just thinking of the masses of extremely fanatically religous, uneducated people around the world disproves your argument.
Did you guys ever stop and think maybe there are dumb people who believe in God, and dumb people who don't believe in God?
Or are you so diluted by your own beliefs that you can't understand that someone with different views than yours on this subject can still be intelligent and educated?
You can walk around inside the monument, if you make reservations .
I did this with some friends, and we got some AMAZING photos of the monument with the sun rising through it. Of course, we had to sign a release, stating that we would not publicly reproduce the photos due to copyright ownership, but that's another topic.
When I went to Stonehenge (courtesy of Mad Max Tours) some loon (I mean that in the best possible sense) was flying in powered paraglider with an oversized fan attached to its back. He appeared to be steering with his elbows as he snapped pictures like a madman. He got close enough that I was sure that he was going to lose control of his craft and turn Stonehenge into Stoneunhenged.
On this same tour we also saw Avebury, and I do agree that it was more enjoyable. I never did see the devil behind my shoulder, however.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Well, the "henge" in "Stonehenge" comes from the same root as the verb "to hang". The Middle English name for Stonehenge was "Stanenges" -- literally "Stone Gallows".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Go to Maryhill, Washington on the banks of the Columbia river where an astronomically accurate, complete and not-falling down Stonehenge has been standing for 75 years now. It's dedicated to the WWI dead of Klickitat County.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Slashdotting?
What, you're not remote viewing it?
Sure, there are dumb people on both sides of the God argument. There's also intelligent and educated people on both sides of the argument. I've had great discussions with very intelligent and educated theists (including Jesuits at University)
Where the difference lies is that there are few "atheists by faith", it is religion that requires faith, which almost by definition, is the abscence of verifiable proof or reason. It requires a measure of self-delusion, an otherwise consistently intelligent and rational person (e.g. Einstein) can still compartamentalize to the point of deluding himself that some supernatural (a loaded word on its own right) being exists. A good book to read on this subject is Wallace Matson's "The Existance of God", in which after very careful consideration of all arguments pro and con, concludes that one cannot reasonably believe in a deity, and that all discussions on the subject end up in the discussion of blind faith. One of my favorite phrases (and one I live by) is: "You cannot checkmate a man who refuses to play chess", if you refuse to follow the rules of logic and reason I cannot win a logical and reasonable argument with you.
So, have you checked that inept religious scholars tout him as a citizen of Nazareth, a city not in existence during his purported lifetime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazareth
It is far more likely that, because of his association with "John (Yochanan) the Baptist", he was a member of the Jewish "Nazarene" sect http://www.nazarene.net/nazareneh.htm and ignoramuses munged that into his being from the yet to be founded town of Nazareth. Sorry, if they can't get these simple historical facts straight, how can anyone assign credibility to their more outrageous pontifications?
P.S. Apologies to the originator of this argument, I was unable to find him/her in my searches. Fortunately, I was able locate some supporting references and used them here.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
I tunneled my way to the end of this thread so as to have the last word ;-) but as it turns out, you rleibman, have already defined it nicely. If I had a mod point, I wouldn't even be talking to ya.
That is an excellent example of making baseless assumptions, that might even be true, whough there's no evidence. (Where did I state my religion?)
Although the above did give an example of an argument tangentially related to my previous post it doesn't seem to directly answer the assertion that there may be a religion that encourages independent thinking.
And my last point, about whether we make many decisions of any kind not based on fear and hope of some kind was entirely unanswered.
Would you like to try again? If you have a real response to my actual previous post, I truly would like to read it, whether I agree with you, or not.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
Dear Anonymous Coward, The actual point of sunrise is an azimuth, it is NOT an angle to the horizon. The observation point is the central chamber of Newgrange - it does not move as you contend. Also, we're not dealing with compass bearings, but true readings. Do you really think such an alignment was accidental? There is huge precedence to believe such a thing was intentional. Many many ancient sites are located along imaginary lines. And yes, the Sunset from Newgrange over other local sites is significant too, including Knowth as you mention. See the map of known or suspected astronomical alignments at this link: http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/alignm ents.html
Hey, you don't have to start acting like a witch just 'cause somebody made an offhand remark about your religion!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
No application is any good till it gets to the 3.0 stage! :-)
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
"Where the difference lies is that there are few "atheists by faith","
How can you say this? I'm sure there hasn't been a poll to see why people are athiests, but I have met plenty of people who are "Athiests" by faith.
To argue against the existance of God, (or a God) even through logic first requires that the nature of God is known. If you talk to most Athiests, they will confirm that if "God" or "A God" was to turn up on Earth tomorrow, they would certainly believe (provided of course that reasonable proof was given to them).
Unless an athiest has 100% proof that "God" or "A God" does not exist, regardless of how much evidence or logic they beleive they have on their side, they really are "Athiests by Faith".
Of course, the fact is, you cannot prove a negative. In the arguement of "Does God exists?", only the side which is arguing that "God" (he/she or it) does exist, can ever prove thier claim. The fact that they are yet to do this, is the reason athiests and agnostics exist. (And even if they did have 100% proof, there would still be some sceptics who will hold to opposing beliefs).
I have met plenty of Athiests in my time who tell me they are athiests either because their families are, or because they think Darwin proved that God didn't exist. Both of these types of arguements are even MORE based on faith than someone who has logically thought about it. Anyone who has logically thought it through, is probably inclined to believe that the evidence suggests that God does not exist. Still, without 100% proof, they are really athiests by faith. (NOTE, this doesn't make them agnostics. I have had arguements with those who think that admitting one would change their stance when offered reasonable proof means they are on the fence. It doesn't.)
Even to assume that someone like Einstein was "self deluding himself" is a bit of a far stretch. With many scientists believing that belief in God may actually be linked with something in our brain, or chemicals in our body, then obviusly Einstein would not be "self deluding". It would be something in his make-up which he has no control over. I read about this first many years ago in an Arthur C. Clark book where he claimed scientists were on the verge of finding the part of the brain which beleived in God. He thought they were going to be cutting this bit out of peoples brains, and making everyone athiests. It hasn't happened yet. (Oh course, with all I've read over the years, these scientist may still be wrong. I bring it up, as it seems more pausible than the mojority of people on the earth being "self deluding".)
I'll have to have a look for that book you mentioned though. It sounds like an interesting read.
Cheers.
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
To argue against the existance of God, (or a God) even through logic first requires that the nature of God is known. If you talk to most Athiests, they will confirm that if "God" or "A God" was to turn up on Earth tomorrow, they would certainly believe (provided of course that reasonable proof was given to them).
Except for the fact that under most rules of discourse, the burden of proof lies in the person making extraordinary claims. By your same logic, it would make sense to suspend disbelief in the existance of unicorns, superman, and super intelligent shades of the color blue. It is not reasonable to believe in the existance of any of these, and sure, I'll change my belief when I see some evidence, but meanwhile AFAIK they don't exist.
Now, having said that, there ARE some arguments against the existance of God that to me sound perfectly reasonble, for that I take a more objectivist tack, starting from a metaphysics that my senses (in general) don't deceive me, that my senses and brain are the only means I have of observing reality, and thus mystic insight is mere allucination. Reality is real. There's no reason at all to believe in God, we don't need it to explain anything, and the mere God of the voids (the God that fills in the gaps of what we currently don't know) is just silly.
Good luck finding the book, I discovered it in my University's library, but I did find a used copy through Amazon a few years back.
"Except for the fact that under most rules of discourse, the burden of proof lies in the person making extraordinary claims."
I concure. I am not argueing in order to convert you to anything or make you reconsider your religious position. You say you are an athiest, I respect that. I was just pointing out that athiests are athiest from faith.
By my arguement, Yes, we don't know if unicorns, superman or super intelligent shades of blue don't exist. I am not argueing to suspend "disbelief" in them, but to acknowledge that it really is a case of "AFAIK" they don't exist. If in ten years time a spacecraft turns up on earth which is full of Unicorns, of course we will change our belief. This is my entire point. AFAIK these things are not known to exist but I don't rule them out 100% that they don't exist. It doesn't mean that suddenly I believe that they exist out there somewhere. For me to decide conclusively that they don't exist though, is a matter of faith.
The fact that there are arguements that God either does or doesn't exist which people use in order to make their decision still comes down to faith. Which arguement makes more sense to the person is up to the individual to decide. I have no problems with you deciding that for you, God doesn't exist.
Let me clarify what I meant too with the line, "To argue against the existance of God, (or a God) even through logic first requires that the nature of God is known.". At present, each religion claims to know God's (or a group of Gods) nature. It may be that God does not have a nature similar to any of these, in which case constructing arguments to prove that "there is no God" are really only specific to the religion (or group of religions) which make those assertions.
God (or a God) could turn up tomorrow and have a nature completely different to anything anyone could think of on Earth.
I have read a lot of arguments for and against the existances of God/Gods, but nothing conclusive has ever been presented proves 100% either way. Without that proof either way, any position you take (either for God/Gods, Against God/Gods), is a matter of faith.
That doesn't mean that anyone who decides either way is any less logical than the next person. Only that to them, the arguement weighs in favour of the decision they made.
I hope that clarifies my position some what.
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
Wiccans themselves however would not be prone to war, its a very non violent "vegetarian tree hugger" religion.
If you don't believe it is possible for a religion to exist in peace for an extensive period of time, perhaps a brief history of Buddhism and Hinduism is in order?
~Rebecca
Chance? Chance has nothing to do with it. Perfectly reasonable scientific laws. Given the average ingredients in the universe, some energy and enough time (I mean a little more than the biblical 6000 years or whatever, something like 1 billion years before the process gets going) life will most likely happen. Life does not happen by chance, anymore than saying that an apple thrown to the air falls "by chance". Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxigen and Nitrogen (ok, a bit of Phosphorous and other smaller components) readily form the building blocks of life, add to that energy and wait enough, soon enough you hear the patter of little feet.
they should have a concert there like the Who did (or was it the stones?)
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rochelle brief physiatry rehabilitation