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Can TiVo be Saved?

ChipGuy writes "TiVo's death watch has begun. The company is having a tough time finding traction in the marketplace, as more and more competitors rush into the market, most of them deep pocketed satellite and cable companies. But is all lost? What if the company went private and became the anti-cable, letting us download, store, organize, and serve media from both cable and -- this is the important part -- the internet. Others believe that TiVo should get into the content aggregation business."

101 of 604 comments (clear)

  1. don't have TiVo... Yet by lecithin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have held off from getting TiVo or the equivalant as I had figured that this would happen. Just like most types of technology things get smaller and cheaper. (then the big boys take over)

    I figure that the Cable companies are going to move very quickly in this arena. My own (Comcast) offers "On Demand" programming right now for free. I can view programs, store and play later as if it were a movie/DVD. It sounds like the next step is to watch what ever you want, when you want as long as you pay what they want.

    I can wait for it all to come together, I know how to program my VCR.

    --
    It could be worse, it could be Monday.
    1. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by superpulpsicle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Tivo got rid of the subscription model, I'd buy a Tivo box right now. While I haven't see any Myth TV linux solutions, I have seen comcast On-Demand with video recorder counterparts. And Tivo feels like a rip off in comparison.

    2. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Corporate+Drone · · Score: 4, Insightful
      My own (Comcast) offers "On Demand" programming right now for free. I can view programs, store and play later as if it were a movie/DVD. It sounds like the next step is to watch what ever you want, when you want as long as you pay what they want.

      Have you actually used on Demand? You only get what Comcast decides to store; you don't get to choose what programs you can time-shift. and, of course, you're not "storing" anything -- you're getting whatever programs are held centrally.

      The "VCR-style" buttons are a joke -- there's a 4-5 second delay between your remote control button press and the response (good luck trying to stop a program at a given location!).

      And, it may "seem" that the next step is full on-demand access to programming, but that's quite naive. keep in mind -- this "on demand" functionality only appeared as a response to DVR feature sets; if DVR competition were to disappear from the marketplace, and their chokehold on content distribution restored, do you really expect them to expand this functionality?!?!

      --
      mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
    3. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by mzwaterski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Think of the lifetime subscription as a fixed cost for the TiVo box...did you buy your TiVo yet?

    4. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by jcostantino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can buy the box and a lifetime subscription instead of subsidizing the cost of the Tivo via the monthly fee. Unfortunately, it seems as though the "lifetime" of the company won't allow you to get you money's worth on a lifetime subscription.

      --
      Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
    5. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      " If Tivo got rid of the subscription model, I'd buy a Tivo box right now. "

      This puzzles me....are there really THAT many people out there that pay the monthly fee, rather than the one time lifetime sub. fee? I figure the one time chunk of money into the whole price.

      Maybe its me...I hate paying monthly on something if I can get it all out of the way once and for all...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by fish+waffle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This puzzles me....are there really THAT many people out there that pay the monthly fee, rather than the one time lifetime sub. fee? I figure the one time chunk of money into the whole price.

      Lifetime subscriptions, as yours is about to attest, are really min(my lifetime, company lifetime).

      People go through this with every new fad and new technology/service. Health clubs used to all have "lifetime memberships", but at least in my area that became highly regulated many years ago because so many people thought it was a much better deal than paying per month, but then got burned when the companies went out of business 2 months later.

      I don't like subscriptions either, but "lifetime" subscriptions are not the best (for the consumer) alternative. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    7. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by dioscaido · · Score: 2

      The lifetime subscription price is $299 versus $12.95 a month, that gives you 2 years to break even from the lifetime subscription. Having purchased the Tivo recently (and hacked it to 320 hours, whoot!), I realized that 2 years is an awful long time in a market that is only just emerging. In all probability, this tivo box will be obsolete by the time 2007 rolls around and I'll be changing my service anyway, or Tivo will be out of business altogether. So, I chose the monthly subscription.

    8. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I have held off from getting TiVo or the equivalant as I had figured that this would happen.

      You've missed out on having a really useful appliance for over five years. I understand being pragmatic, but that's like saying "I didn't get a computer, console, etc..) because I knew the successor would be out about a half decade later."

    9. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Better yet, why dont Tivo and NetFlix partner/merge. They could provide a complete conenction to millions of titles. All you do is set your queue and it will DL directly to the tivo device.

      Also, what could be done is each device that gets a title registers with the seeder, and it will DL/UL titles via swarming (Bittorrent) from the other devices that have/want the same titles.

      Securing the network can be tricky, sure - but that part ill leave to tivo/netflix/hackers.

    10. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by eigerface · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I went with the monthly subscription. At $12.95 a month, it would take 23 months to break even.

      Considering that you are dealing with an always on hard drive, I just wasn't sure that the unit would last 23 months before requiring an upgrade or repair.

      Add to that I have Dish Network. I don't do cable. I believe that in the not so distant future, both Dish Network and DirecTV will be offering a set-top box AND DVR as a combined package as standard equipment, and at a rate that is comparable to Dish alone and TiVo, with an acceptable maintenance package that would render the issue of hard drive reliability moot.

    11. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Gudlyf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why pay any fee at all? I grabbed one of the Toshiba Tivo/DVD Series2 units from EBay for about $120, which includes TiVo service, albeit "Basic" service. (Basic service doesn't allow Season Pass subscriptions but you can still record shows as normal, use the guide, pause live shows, etc.)

      --
      Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
    12. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by timbck2 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Lifetime subscriptions, as yours is about to attest, are really min(my lifetime, company lifetime).


      Actually, the TiVo "lifetime" subscription is min(the TiVo unit's lifetime, company lifetime). Of course the only parts of the TiVo prone to failure are the hard drives and modem; the hard drive is replaceable, and the modem is circumventable. So you could say the effective lifetime of a TiVo unit is unlimited.
      --
      Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
    13. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're missing he best part of TiVo, then. Seasons passes is what makes TiVo great. It would be like buying a Mac with XP on it. Why bother - just get a beige box.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    14. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Issue9mm · · Score: 5, Informative

      It probably isn't being modded up because a Tivo/NetFlix coop is already in the works.

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newswee k/

      -9mm-

    15. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by JoeD · · Score: 4, Informative

      But here's the question... how the hell does a Tivo box that's sitting on a shelf above the satellite reciever change the channel as needed? What kind of weird wiring hack did you have to do to get that to work?

      The same way a Tivo sitting on the shelf above the cable box changes channels - there's a little IR emitter that you position in front of the box, and the Tivo sends the appropriate commands to change the channel.

      With some model satellite receivers (DirecTV only, I think), the serial port on the back of the Tivo hooks up to the serial port on the back of the receiver and changes channels that way.

    16. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You can buy the box and a lifetime subscription instead of subsidizing the cost of the Tivo via the monthly fee.
      If you pay that lifetime subscription, you have no idea what you're buying. First is the issue of whether they stay in business, as you noted. But besides that, they reserve the right to change the service at any time in the future... previous "upgrades" include reporting your viewing back to TiVo, automatically recording comercials, and now (from what I hear) interrupting fast-forwarding to show (more) commercials.

      The initial outlay is too risky when you don't know what you're really in for.

    17. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by Rico_Suave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you pay that lifetime subscription, you have no idea what you're buying."

      Not really... $300 will buy you approximately two years of programming ($12.95 a month). If Tivo lasts longer than that, you win!

    18. Re:don't have TiVo... Yet by daVinci1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I can wait for it all to come together, I know how to program my VCR.

      That's great that you know how to program your VCR.

      Please set up your VCR to record only first-run episodes of Law & Order that come on NBC, and all episodes that come on TNT. Oh, but don't record an episode if you've recorded in the previous 30 days. And please make sure to automatically have your VCR keep up with the scheduling, so that when NBC decides to start adding one extra minute to the show to throw of your VCR, it records the extra minute as well. Oh, and if the Simpsons comes on at the same time as any of those episodes on TNT, please record those instead. And when the network delays the start of Law and Order because the baseball game went long, please make sure to have your VCR pick up on that as well. Oh, and given that I like Law and Order, could you please set up your VCR to record other shows that it feels I might be interested in.

      People who make the argument that Tivo is just a smarter VCR completely miss the point. They're akin to the people who assume that any article that begins with 'Bill Gates donated $1B to help immunize people in third world countries' must end with 'in a bid to avoid paying taxes.'

      Tivo is not just a smart VCR. It's not missing shows that you want to watch. It's watching your shows in 21 minutes per 30 minutes recorded. It's keeping track of schedule changes. It's coming home late at night and watching *whatever the hell you want to.*

      But look on the bright side. Assuming that this (like every other doomsday article to come out about Tivo in the last five years) is correct, you can rest assured that you didn't waste any money on bending TV to your will. Me? I'm glad to have given $500 to a company who makes a great product, and I wish them the greatest success.

      --
      I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
  2. About TiVo by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work for TiVo.

    Believe me, it can be very disheartening to work for an innovator in a marketplace where large established companies have such control over the distribution channels.

    Cable companies and satellite companies already have a "lock" to a large extent on their customers and for them to sell an additional service such as a DVR requires so much less capital investment in marketing, and let's face it, making a good product, than it takes for a company like TiVo.

    And those companies already have much deeper pockets than a small company like TiVo with which to absorb the losses associated with pushing this rather expensive technology out to users.

    It's kind of funny to me that people will pay $80 cable bills without a whimper but will cry foul at the concept of paying $13 a month to TiVo to make the cable service so much more worthwhile.

    Cable DVRs suck. Most people would be much happier with a TiVo and would find the extra expense to be justified. I know I'm biased but I honestly believe that.

    My comments are my own and I do not speak for my employer.

    1. Re:About TiVo by mzwaterski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cable companies can more efficiently provide the same services that TiVo can provide. They haven't completely duplicated the service of TiVo yet but they have charged a heck of a lot less. What can TiVo provide that cable companies can't/don't that justifies the cost? No offense intended to you or TiVo of course.

    2. Re:About TiVo by otis+wildflower · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cable DVRs suck. Most people would be much happier with a TiVo and would find the extra expense to be justified. I know I'm biased but I honestly believe that.

      True, but...
      * I want a DVI+SPDIF/HDMI input and HD recording capability
      * I want faster menus and wishlist processing
      * I want nobody to ever mess with 30 second skip. DO NOT FUCK WITH 30 SECOND SKIP.
      * I want to be able to watch my TiVo recordings on my P800 fone and/or a video iPod
      * weather, stock, headline, etc. applets would be nice.

      Cable DVRs do suck, but they also do digital sound and hi-def. They don't handle DVD burning though, and I _may_ upgrade to a DVD-capable DVR in the next few months, remains to be seen whether it's a TiVo unit or some kind of HTPC Linux box..

    3. Re:About TiVo by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No offense taken.

      TiVo can provide technical innovation. Cable companies are generally not known for their ability to innovate technology or to produce compelling products such as set top boxes like TiVo with new and advanced features. They tend to "follow leads" as is obvious now with the crop of second-rate DVRs that they are releasing.

      We'll see how this plays out. Either the technical superiority of TiVo will win out or the lower-cost, lower-quality options that the cable companies can offer will win out. Actually it's likely that both will win and retain some part of the market, the question is, how large a part for each respectively?

      Believe me, no one at TiVo is under any delusions that we don't have to work *very hard* to stay ahead of the pack and retain technical superiority.

      I feel that especially on this topic, I have to remind everyone that I speak for myself and not TiVo.

    4. Re:About TiVo by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Those boxes work much more like a digital VCR than a true DVR as far as I know, although I have to admit I have never used one and can only go on others' observations here.

      Also you are providing evidence for at least some of my points - believe me there is no way that cable companies could push such *very expensive* technology as dual-tuner HD pvrs without the deep pockets that they have to absorb the losses that must be associated with that product. There is just no way that $10/month can support the development of, production of, and distribution of that product.

    5. Re:About TiVo by m2bord · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I completely see your point however, please let me tell you why I'll never own a Tivo or a Replay or any other system.

      I'm a control freak. I like to know what's going on and who's doing it.

      Tivo controls the box. They control the size of the drive inside the box, they control the data that's on the box, and they ultimately could control what can and cannot be saved onto the box.

      And while it is true that some can "hack" the box, Tivo has not given users permission to do so.

      Tivo alone maintains control and can upload updates on it, they upload commercials on to it, and they can monitor what I'm watching/Tivo-ing.

      In other words, I'm paying for a machine and a service which I cannot legally control.

      It's a funny thing but I really hate the idea of law-enforcement or anyone else out there being able to see how many times I Tivo'd something.

      Tivo is not the only company who operates this way. I'm sure most digital cable and satellite recievers operate under similar standards.

      But if I build my own box, and use open source software, I am free to see what's going on and thus gain some control.

      Tivo nor any other company that I know of, gives the consumer that option.

      --
      Is it 5:30 yet?
    6. Re:About TiVo by mzwaterski · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've never owned TiVo, only used it a few times. Does TiVo provide free updates to the UI/features that are useful on a regular basis?

      Part of my problem with TiVo is that it requires an upfront cost followed by a subscription cost. I know you can do the 300$ lifetime subscription, but thats TiVo's lifetime and currently things don't look that great. So I buy this box and a year later some new tech comes out (enter HDTV) and my box is no good. With the cable companies subscription plan, they absorb the cost of purchasing the new box. How can TiVo compete with that? Further, with the ever dropping price of home HTPC's how can TiVo compete? It seems that TiVo is just currently over-priced (not by choice) in the market.

    7. Re:About TiVo by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The costs associated with getting a product into retail channels are nothing to sneeze at. Also the costs associated with advertising these products is not cheap either. Cable companies don't have to put their products into retail channels and can advertise pretty much "for free" on their own service (not really for free since whatever time they use to advertise could have been used to make advertising revenue, except in those cases where they air their ads in the time slots that otherwise weren't bought).

      But I agree with your fundamental point that it's the subsidy that they can give to their customers in the monthly fee area and hardware that is most significant.

    8. Re:About TiVo by smackjer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a Comcast DVR that is dual tuner, so it can record two shows at once, and it records HD. It has other features that Tivo does not, such as a Firewire port to offload content (which I haven't used yet so I can't really vouch for it). Best part: I didn't have to shell out ~$1000 for an HD-capable DVR, and since I don't have good enough line-of-sight for satellite, it's pretty much my only option for recording HD.

      It's only a matter of time before your local cable company has similar features.

      I also have a Series 2 Tivo, which has been relegated to bedroom duty, and had a Series 1 in the past. I have LOVED Tivo (both the product and the company) since 2001. Tivo's software is *slightly* easier to use than my Comcast DVR, but until they catch up in HD support they will lose ground.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    9. Re:About TiVo by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We'll see how this plays out. Either the technical superiority of TiVo will win out or the lower-cost, lower-quality options that the cable companies can offer will win out.

      As an Apple watcher for 20 years, I would say this: pack up your desk. Cheaper almost always wins in the marketplace; US consumers are trained to evaluate on price first, features second. The feature has to be really visible--visible in the Best Buy or WalMart floor space where the consumer makes their purchasing decision--for it to trump price. And your features aren't; you only see the value after use. That means either taking the plunge because you didn't know alternatives exist, or were pointed to it by a friend. Compared to the free advertising ComCast has on their own channels, good luck with that.

      While your product is stellar, and I'm a fanatic user myself, I think it takes too long for folks to appreciate the advantages of the TiVo. And, "too long", in this case, means >10 minutes. How do you market the advantages, without saying simply "easier to use"?

      I'm really hoping that the NetFlix deal can save your asses. I'm guessing it won't; it's too far away before release, it'll take too long to download stuff, and/or not enough stuff will be available. TivoToGo, while maybe nice (I dunno, I'm a Mac user), doesn't seem to be the killer feature, either: too long to transfer.

      I might suggest that you have some chance if you declare war on ComCast, since they didn't play ball with the distribution deal: allow for unrestricted copying/transfer/ad skip/archiving without ads, and only stop it if they come back to the table. That's pretty chancy, but it might the the only shot y'all have.

      Good luck--really. But if it all falls apart, please consider releasing enough info to keep the current boxes useful.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    10. Re:About TiVo by Algan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem as I see it is that TiVo doesn't seem to provide anything that a geek with a Linux box couldn't.

      A $100 price point and that "works out of the box" experience.

      --
      If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
    11. Re:About TiVo by Moofie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm a TiVo user, and I think the box rocks.

      However.

      I don't pay $80/mo for cable. I pay $40, and $13 to TiVo to download a program guide to me. That's a lot of money for a very little bit of data. That's about eight nice, glossy magazine subscriptions per year. Never mind the hoops I had to jump through to not use your expensive dial-in PoP. (I had to go borrow a landline for a long time to get the software update) I got it working, but that out-of-the-box experience just sucked.

      I would have much rather paid for the box outright, and given TiVo a reasonable profit, than die the death of a thousand $13/mo payments. I'm willing to pay for a good user experience, but I hate the feeling that I'm being nibbled to death by just one more monthly fee.

      And, no, the lifetime subscription is simply not an option. It's a terrible value, especially because I'm not sanguine about TiVo inc's future.

      I like your product, but I'm not responsible to make your business model work for you. I'll be a customer for as long as I get good value, and right now your value proposition is sketchy at best. I really hope you guys can change this.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    12. Re:About TiVo by wcrowe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1. TiVo handles the "season pass" better. If I set up a season pass to always record a show, the TiVo gets it, even if the network changes the air time. My cable DVR often misses shows for this reason. Sometimes it just doesn't record shows for no reason whatsoever.

      2. Fast forward works better with TiVo. While fast-forwarding, when I hit the play button, the TiVo automatically backs up a few seconds, then plays, i.e., it takes into account the lag time between the moment my brain comprehends that I'm at the point I want to watch, and when the button-press is executed. This is particularly good when zipping through ads. The cable DVR stops right at the point play is executed, so I'm always missing the first few seconds after a commercial break.

      3. The TiVo has a "wishlist" capability. I can tell it to find all movies which are "historical dramas", for example, or all "dog shows", or every show with "Danny DeVito" in it, and it will give me a list of those programs to select to record. The cable DVR doesn't even let me search for shows by title, let alone keyword.

      4. Overall, the TiVo interface is much more user-friendly. The cable device seems to assume that what I want to do is watch TV all night long, and that I might want to hit the record button on something while I'm watching it.

      There are others.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    13. Re:About TiVo by Canuck_TV · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cable companies are generally not known for their ability to innovate technology or to produce compelling products such as set top boxes like TiVo with new and advanced features

      tee hee. Thanks for the morning laugh. You've obviously been at Tivo too long. What the cable companies have done with their little one-way coax network defies belief... Trust me. I work for one (sort of... long story). Try to find another single service provider who can give you everything the cable plant does on 2 conductors. Cable (analog/digital), VOD, Broadband, VoIP, FM radio, other misc data services (ie Alarm monitoring) ... Not even the telcos can touch that (for the moment - they're getting DAMN close)

      However, the lack of a decent set-top box on our own network (Rogers, Canada) is frustrating. Its far superior to the dish folks - dual tuners, and the ability to record VOD programming etc. However, the user interface is lacking these days... And that I blame entirely on the manufacturers. In our case, Scientific Atlanta. They keep innovating - using the same software. For instance, the new SA 8500 (i think?) box that is coming out will be able to serve video off its hard drive to any other SA set-top... ANY explorer set top. That's saying something. The exlorer 2000 is one outdated piece of kit. But guess what, its still supported by the latest feature sets.

      PowerKey is the base, but SARA - the top-level GUI, looks like somethiing out of 1994. It is so long overdue for an overhaul I've generally stopped complaining about it.

      That being said, the SA boxes have one SERIOUS advantage over other solutions - they're a bit bucket. When you record the NFL game in HD on an 8000HD, it is simply caching the stream. No transcoding. When you play it back, the signal is identical to the live broadcast. So... until CableCard 2.0 comes out (ETA: 12 months?) TiVo and others are left in a bit of a lurch. But, if you survive the wait, there will be NO excuse for giving the cablecos a run for their money. I hope you do. Maybe SA will finally update SARA!

    14. Re:About TiVo by radish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's good to speak to someone from Tivo - I'm a big fan.

      I used to live in the UK (where Tivo have to all intents and purposes closed down) and was one of the few die hard Tivo'ers. I had my box, hacked in a bigger HD, added the network card, TivoWeb, etc etc. When Sky+ came along I defended Tivo to the hilt - it _was_ better. The menus were better, the season passes worked better, it was much more friendly to non-techs.

      So anyway, now I live in the US. I have cable TV (satellite isn't available in my building) and a cable PVR. Why don't I have a Tivo? Bunch of reasons:

      No HD
      No 5.1
      Single tuner
      Upfront cost is ~$200 vs $0
      Monthly cost is $13 vs $10 (not a biggy)

      Now I fully understand the technical reasons Tivo can't support HD, or multiple tuners (though digital audio seems easy). But as a user it's really hard to justify paying more for a box which doesn't do as much. Yes Tivo still wins out on interface, reliability, etc - but that isn't enough.

      To Tivo: I wish you all the best, I would buy a Tivo in a heartbeat if it fixed the HD, audio and multiple tuner problems, but until then I can't see much of a future.

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    15. Re:About TiVo by Canuck_TV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'm guessing it won't; it's too far away before release, it'll take too long to download stuff, and/or not enough stuff will be available

      I couldn't agree more. The days of "Don't release till it works 100% with full feature set," are, unforunately, gone. The world simply works too fast now. 15 minutes of fame has become 15 seconds. Do something big, but get the basic feature set working. Make sure the hardware can do what you plan on doing. Make sure you hype it. Then sell it, with a promised free upgrade in 6 months.

      This is what happened to me with Apple - too late. Back in 2000, we had to make a decision on a non-linear editing platform system-wide. 13 stations, with about 3-7 edit systems required per station. We decided to go with the industry standard AVID... On the PC platform. OSX simply wasn't there yet. I'd saw off my left foot to switch now. AVID works on Mac. It STARTED on Mac. But a decision had to be made. Too late.

      I hate this new reality. I'd rather see solid, tested, products. But people have become GIMMEITNOW, and therefore first to market with a reasonably stable product wins. Oh well.

    16. Re:About TiVo by Schnapple · · Score: 2, Insightful
      TivoToGo can be saved with one feature:

      Let me download an MPEG2 file which I can burn with any DVD burning program

      Not that DRM-protected file you give me, and not something I can only legally use Sonic MyDVD 6.1 on. Something I can feed to Nero without dancing through illegal hoops on.

      Let's be honest - no one gives a crap about spending two hours to download a one hour show. We want to burn them to DVD. Period. And we don't want to futz with MythTV, we want to do it with a piece of hardware we can get at Best Buy.

      Please, say to hell with the companies that would be offended by this. If you have millions of customers you would have the money to do a court battle.

    17. Re:About TiVo by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had Dish Network
      Respectfully...try DirecTV

      1)they have poor installation (they just dropped wire in the middle of my living room floor, instead of putting it behind the walls). They installed my satellite on my neighbors roof
      Installation is done by independent technicians, and it sounds like you had a lousy one...I know from experience this is true of both satellite and cable installers.

      2)Their services DOES go out when it is bad weather, and bad does not really have to be a major storm
      Again, sounds like your installer didn't do the job properly. Either connections outside aren't sealed or more likely your dish isn't really aligned very well.

      3)They lack customer service skills imho. When I had problems they always tried getting me off the phone, and then their next response "you will have to contact a local authorized dealer who will come out at their given rates."
      Can't really say much about DirecTV's customer service, but I also haven't had a need to call them more than once in over 2 years. The service just works.

      4) They charge an arm & leg for their boxes and once you bought it, god forbid if it breaks.
      The beauty of satellite is you can choose to buy *quality* equipment, not the 3rd rate crap that the Cable Co's force on you. If you buy cheapo stuff and it breaks, well you get what you pay for. Also you can buy the feature you *want* instead of just what they want to give you.



      With cable tv:

      1) They wire behind your walls
      Installer issue again.

      2) If the service goes out they come and fix it (no charge to you)
      With satellite, generally anything that's 'wrong' is fixable by *you*. No waiting on a tech if you are even moderately 'handy'. Aligning a dish isn't hard (assuming it's not on your roof *smile*). But there isn't anything between you and the signal, unlike cable where the tech might be down the street just unplugging every connection till he finds the house he wants...I've watched them do that trying to figure out which was my line...sheesh.

      3) Unless your wires are faulty - bad weather RARELY (less then 1% for me) affects your connection
      *Your wires* being the key phrase. It's also every wire over every mile between you and the cable co, lots of places for faults to occur that you have no control over.

      4) High speed cable modems are way bettr then DSL...and satellite high speed is a joke.
      How did DSL get into this? In this one area I must give credit to Cox Cable where it's due, the cable internet 'just works'. Excepting the one time they oversold the node, I've never had much in the way of problems. Just plug and go, it's that easy. I'd love to try DSL but the distance limits have always prevented my getting a signal.

      Satellite is hands down better than any cable co I've ever used, and that totals 6-8 different providers/locations.


      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    18. Re:About TiVo by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How exactly are "VOD, Broadband, VoIP, FM radio, other misc data services (ie Alarm monitoring)" innovations of cable companies?

      Cable companies were simply in the fortunate position to be able to re-purpose infrastructure that they had already laid down for another purpose (analog TV distribution). And the repurposing that they did took extra investment in digital set top boxes and cable modem hardware, and who knows whatever infrastructure at their head end. No innovation there at all. It's not like they "invented" the internet or any service thereon that by happy coincidence for them have added value to their service.

      DirecTV with TiVo DVRs have all of the advantages that you mentioned about the SA boxes, and they're better DVRs to boot.

      I speak for me and not TiVo again (obviously).

    19. Re:About TiVo by iowannaski · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Tivo failed miserably in the marketing department,

      The verb "tivo" is firmly established in the American lexicon. I'd hardly call that a failure of marketing.

      Tivo's financial problems can all be directly traced back to thei strategy of, "sell the unit at a loss, make it up on volume."

      TiVo puts nice software on top of their commodity hardware platform, but they haven't done anything significant to put them ahead of the imitators.

      --
      i forget
    20. Re:About TiVo by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      ...very few understand what exactly it does besides "record, stop live tv". Tivo failed miserably in the marketing department...
      Absolutely correct. "Pause live TV" is probably one of the least important feature, because this device pretty much destroys your taste for live TV. During the six months between my box's arrival and its final failure (QA is another issue Tivo never properly addressed) I stopped even looking at the TV schedule, because I was more likely to find something I wanted to watch already recorded. Even when I did watch a live show, I'd wait at least 5 minutes after it started, so I could zip past the commercials.

      The best feature of Tivo, the one the makes it worth the (rather high) cost is its ability to find shows for you. I'd come home saying, "I want to watch a nature documentary" and find that Tivo had already recorded a half dozen, including a couple I didn't even know were on. Judging from what I've heard from other Tivo owners, this is a universally popular feature. Yet they never advertised it at all.

    21. Re:About TiVo by hawk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >As an Apple watcher for 20 years, I would say this: pack up your desk.

      Yeah. I remember Apple. Pity they went out of business :)

      More seriously, if they spend as long going out of business as Apple has, he can pack *very* slowly.

      hawk

    22. Re:About TiVo by hawk · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've never owned TiVo, only used it a few times. Does TiVo provide free updates to the UI/features that are useful on a regular basis?

      Not only free, but they happen automatically.

      From time to time, you end up with downloads of updated software. This tends to be piecemeal for regular tivos that get it by phone, and all at once on satellite. If it needs to, it reboots at some obscure time of the morning (I think it even worns you first).

      As far as competing with cable, look at their deal with directv (which may or may not be ending, depending upon which rumors you believe). Someone is subsidizing hardware costs ($99), and it's only $5/month. And look at the portion (huge majority) of tivo subscribers with directivo . . .

      hawk

    23. Re:About TiVo by tgd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hope the understanding of why people are moving away from Tivo is more widespread within the company. If not, perhaps being out of touch with thet customer is the problem.

      I cancelled my Tivo service about a month ago. I was an early adopter -- I had a unit within a month or so of their release, and by my best estimates somewhere around 40 people have Tivos right now because of firsthand contact with seeing mine. Who knows how many people got them by seeing those people's Tivos.

      Why did I cancel? Tivo is inexcusably late to the market with an HD box, and inexcusably late to the market with a CableCard unit, even ignoring the one-tuner problem. They missed the adoption curve with HD by two years, and they've lost as a result. Dime late, dollar short as they say. I have two HD sets, a cable company that provides HD content, and a half dozen OTA HD channels I can get, and its all a waste with the Tivo. That issue was such a big factor for me, I gave up my Tivo for a Motorola PVR that rarely goes for more than a day without hanging, causing me to lose stuff. I have much higher hopes they'll fix their software than I do Tivo actually making it to market with an HD CableCard unit.

      Here's what I see Tivo's problem is: they forgot about their core market -- the early adopters. We're the people who are going to spend our money on new technology, and demonstrate that to everyone else. We're the ones who needed hardware to track the rest of our technology, not lag it by years. Tivo clearly thought the mass market was more important, and clearly targeted their feature development at that (nearly useless things like Music and Photo sharing which seemed cool to everyone for a few weeks, never to be used again, even ignoring them screwing the early adopters again who paid for it, only to have it given away weeks later). Tivo didn't realize the risk to the mass market that cable companies represent. That mass market doesn't care in the slightest about the "tivo" features... they want to record stuff, pause stuff and play it back. Wishlists, suggestions, all of that means nothing to them.

      So now Tivo has two markets -- one that doesn't care about the things that differentiate their product, and one who can't use their product with their newer equipment.

      If people at Tivo think most people would be much happier with a Tivo, thats precisely why Tivo will not last. Thats such an incorrect reading of the situation, it amazes me your product management staff could actually believe that.

      To reiterate: People do not care in the slightest about the features Tivo brings to the table. Those of us who do, wish we could have them, but being able to actually watch HD programming, and record it is more important to us. Thankfully for us, its going to be easier for Motorola to address the things we don't like than it will be for a struggling Tivo to get to market with a box we can use.

      When I cancelled, the support representative told me she hoped I'd come back again in 18-24 months when the new CableCard units are available. Thats a LONG time for Comcast and the rest of the cable card companies to leapfrog you all again.

      Its a shame, I loved my Tivo.

    24. Re:About TiVo by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Here in the UK the opposite is completely true - I used to have cable from NTL but I gave up in the end because they were so bad:

      1. In August 2000 I phoned NTL to arrange an installation of telephone and cable TV. The wiring was already in from the previous owner of my flat but I was told that they couldn't do the installation for 6 weeks (first sign I should have given up right there). I also checked on the availability of a cable modem and was told that the current service was analogue but they were upgrading the whole network in my area to digital in November 2000 so it'd be available then. They also refused to do the installation on a weekend so I had to take half a day off work (I didn't really see this as a huge problem at the time).

      2. On the arranged installation date the engineer showed up, plugged the analogue cable decoder into the existing wire (that worked ok), tested the phone line and told me he was just going down the the multiplexer to reconnect it. He never returned (second sign I shoudl have given up). I phoned up their support line, waiting in the queue for 90 minutes before being told that my phone line hadn't been connected because they needed to upgrade the multiplexer first (they had already had 6 weeks notice that they were installing the line!). They said it would be 3 months until they did the upgrade! (third sign)

      3. Eventually the phone line was connected (they tried to make me take anouther day off work for that but I managed to convince them that they *would* do a weekend install), but the network upgrade to digital never happened and I eventually decided to save money by switching my Demon dialup internet connection to an NTL one since they did unmetered dialup. I was told that this wasn't available in my area.

      4. Whenever you needed to phone them you would end up having to wait in the phone queue for 60 - 90 minutes and 75% of the time they would then just hang up the call (I have since been told by people who work in NTL call centres that the line-managers do that when the calls aren't being answered quickly enough, since if they don't meet their quota of answered calls they lose their bonus pay - picking up and immediately dropping a call counds as an answered call).

      5. The cable TV connection would break for several hours at a time not infrequently.

      6. The analogue cable TV connection broadcast everything in 4:3 ratio - if it was a 16:9 channel they chopped the sides off the picture. I have a 16:9 TV so I'm left with a choice: chop the top and bottom off to make it 16:9 again (you lose way too much of the picture), squash the picture to make it 16:9 (ugh, distortion) or live with it in 4:3 ratio and big black bars down the side of the screen.

      6. Eventually in 2002 (well over a year after the promised digital upgrade) I gave up, dropped the NTL phone line and TV and switched to Sky Digital satellite TV, a BT phone line and a PlusNet DSL internet connection. BT connected the phone line within 12 hours.

      7. Sky only very rarely goes out (usually due to bad weather - happens maybe once a year for a few minutes)

      8. If I need to phone Sky, BT or PlusNet they pick up the phone almost immediately

      9. PlusNet's service is almost flawless (I know many people who use NTL cable modems and they are always having outages). I also get a subnet of real IP addresses and am allowed to run services on my DSL connection with PlusNet's blessing (NTL won't give you a static IP and their AUP explicitly disallows you from running services on it). The DSL connection almost never goes down.

      10. In 2004 (i.e. almost 4 years after the promised digital upgrade), NTL came canvassing the area to say they now had digital services. They asked me what kind of internet connection I had and I replied "DSL

    25. Re:About TiVo by timthorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the UK, DVRs are already commodities. The model I have (Humax 8000T) costs $220, with no subscription. My parents have the Thomson DHD4000, which can record two channels at once and play a third, and that costs $250 - again with no subscription. There is a free 14 day TV guide that comes over the air, although the advanced scheduling that Tivo provides isn't available. However, the BBC and others have been researching embedding URL type metadata, called Content Reference IDentifiers, into TV programmes. This information will allow you to automatically record all programmes in a series, perhaps even from a trailer. Take a look at TV Anytime http://www.tv-anytime.org/

    26. Re:About TiVo by wcrowe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good Eats was bouncing all over the schedule, and I never missed a single new episode.

      That's a good show, BTW.

      My DVR is the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 (I think) offered by Cox. Perhaps Time Warner offers a better service, but when you have over 200 channels, browsing by title or genre is, for me, a frustrating waste of time.

      This is especially true when the "genre" is just "Movie". I mean, there is a big difference between, say "War And Peace" and "Earnest Goes To Camp".

      The TiVo Wishlist function is fantastic. For instance: I was watching the "Foyle's War" series on PBS last year. The star of that series is Michael Kitchen. I liked it so much, that I set up a wishlist to find any programs with Michael Kitchen in them.

      The cable-supplied DVR probably looks great to anyone who has never used a TiVo before, but I've become spoiled.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    27. Re:About TiVo by powerlord · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It can already provide a file that can be burned with MyDVD and Nero. The only issue with the encryption is that it needs the DRM module to access, so for now it only works on Windows. Hope they change that soon but it certainly addresses 90% of their market (at least).

      Of course, there are tools right now that will let you rip the DRM off of the .tivo and turn it into a .mpeg (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/ttg.htm
      ) but those aren't native to tivo. I'm sure a 'simpler' approach will show up soon. They (Tivo) has also talked in the past about transfering shows back to the Tivo.

      As far as a subscription model:
      Originally the subscriptions covered the box being operational.
      With the new DVD+Tivo units the subscription is optional to provide the "full" functionality (14 day program guide instead of 3 day, and season pass/program search functionality).
      Besides the "basic Tivo functionality" the same subscription fee (or lifetime membership), now includes using the Tivo to view pictures streamed off your PC (great for digital slide shows of trips), and streaming MP3s off of a computer.
      Oh, and the same subscription fee also now provides access to Tivo2Go (as flawed as you feel it is, I can still watch recorded programs on my Computer while my wife watches TV, and on a 100MB wired connection, programs recorded at the "Medium" quality I usually use transfer at about 2x1 ... a one hour show transfers in about 30 minutes).

      Tivo also just unveiled an API so that people can develop applications for the Tivo similar to the Picture and Music viewer (with an eye toward other applications).

      Gee ... certainly seems like they've been doing a lot more than just roll over and die.

      Yes ... the cable and satellite companies are rolling out their own version, but it still isn't Tivo. Oh, and to the person who said they still have VCR so they don't feel a need to get a Tivo, I got mine after my VCR was fried (casuality of the NorthEast blackout a few years back), my Tivo is much more flexible and fun than the VCR was. I can watch one recorded program while recording another, see whats been recorded and go to it instantly, record more than 6 hours if I'm away for the week (and my wife and I have different tastes), find ways of recording what I want that would conflict by checking when else its playing, oh, and allow me to transfer my recordings to my computer for easy viewing if the TV is occupied, or I'm going on the road.

      Tivo will at the very worst be aquired by someone else. The existing technology/patents/customer base is too valuable to pass up.

      Sorry for a bit of a "rant" not directed at you in particular, but those who continue to bash Tivo for the choices they made to stay in buisness with no accounting of the good things they already provide.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
    28. Re:About TiVo by curunir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think TiVo users take for granted the ability to pause shows while they're watching. Even when I'm watching a recorded program, I'll pause it to use the bathroom or go make some food or anything else I feel the need to do. It's still a great feature to those who haven't become accustomed to it.

      Also, maybe I'm in the minority, but I've found that TiVo hasn't killed my interest in live TV. It's just changed the way that I watch live TV. Instead of melting down the remote searching for 2-3 minute snippets of something to watch on other channels while avoiding the commercials on the channel I'm watching, I simply pick out two shows to watch (I have DirecTiVo) and switch back and forth skipping the commercials for both.

      If anything, TiVo needs to figure out a way to get 2 tuner support into its regular line of DVRs. People who've never used a DirecTiVo don't understand just how powerful that second tuner really is. Not only that, it's a feature that can be easily sold to customers without even seeing it in action. Just have some husband saying he doesn't miss his favorite show because his wife's show is on. Or some woman saying she can still watch the rose parade despite the fact that her boyfriend's bowl games are on at the same time.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    29. Re:About TiVo by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If anything, TiVo needs to figure out a way to get 2 tuner support into its regular line of DVRs. People who've never used a DirecTiVo don't understand just how powerful that second tuner really is. Not only that, it's a feature that can be easily sold to customers without even seeing it in action.
      I agree, but not for the reasons you cite. The fact is that most people just don't grasp the fact that a VCR or a PVR has its own tuner. It's an obvious fact to any gadget-geek like you or me, but try to explain it to anybody else and their eyes glaze over. (If you don't believe me, grab a couple of ordinary people and ask them to explain how a VCR can record when the TV isn't turned on. Assuming they even know that it can.) So people are recording a show, they want to watch something else while the show is recording, but Tivo won't let them change they channel, and they can't understand why.

      So don't say, "There's two tuners!" That's just more technonoise.

      Why weren't two tuners to begin with? The same reason early Tivos had so much flaky hardware. They cut every corner they could, trying to get the price down. They decided to sacrifice usability and reliability in order to get a price people would pay. Alas, they didn't succeed in that either.

  3. maybe by WormholeFiend · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe if TiVo has patents on their system, they can use those to make enough money to stay afloat for a while?

  4. ChipGuy by kngthdn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Whoever this ChipGuy fellow is, he sure hates Tivo! Not only is this story a dupe, but ChipGuy submitted both of them. I wonder how many were rejected. ; )

    Here's the original.

    1. Re:ChipGuy by Gzip+Christ · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Whoever this ChipGuy fellow is, he sure hates Tivo! Not only is this story a dupe, but ChipGuy submitted both of them.
      It sounds to me like a short seller of TIVO stock who is trying to drive the price down. There was a guy named "lenticular" on the old Motley Fool message board for TIVO that would relentlessly do the same thing.

      Either that or it's just somebody with a chip on his shoulder.

    2. Re:ChipGuy by Qoud · · Score: 3, Informative

      How about this one. Seems like he's got a chip on his shoulder...

  5. Proof by nightsweat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Tivo's problems are proof that you can not meet the RIAA/MPAA/advertisers halfway. They will screw you.

    You either have to roll over completley or get ready for a long hard battle that you will win. TIVO wimped out and tried to make everyone happy, in the process making very few people happy. They'll get bought by someone. I'd like it to be Apple, but I'm skeptical.

    --

    the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
  6. Cue the haters by jargoone · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pick your poison:

    1. "My cable company's DVR works just fine, why should I pay extra for a TiVO?"
    2. "I don't watch TV, why do I want a TiVo?"
    3. "My MythTV box only took me 3 weeks to get working, and I will probably only have to mess with the guide data stream a few times a year, and the hardware only cost twice as much as a TiVo."

    We've heard them all before...

    1. Re:Cue the haters by Entropy_ajb · · Score: 2, Funny

      You forgot:
      4. Messed with MythTV for a month trying to get it to actually work and be usefull, and then ditched it for Windows MCE.

  7. Re:Bad idea by LewsTherinKinslayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That would be focussing on the consumer. This approach sounds good, but it never works. All you end up with is greedy consumers wanting more and more.

    Damn those greedy customers, expecting more and more for what they will surely be willing to pay for.

  8. Steps by cthrall · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1. Tivo licenses content.
    2. Tivo provides nice search interface for Tivo BitTorrent client.
    3. Tivo provides centralized Torrent servers and includes content in $12.95.
    4. Goodbye cable!

    Has anybody tried the new SDK? It's pretty cool...they should have done it from the beginning.

  9. And? by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'm missing where the "death watch" comes from. They've lost some executives and their stock price is down. Is there any real bad news in there?

    But, since we've been told to start sharing our unininformed opinions:

    1) I don't see where turning TiVo into an Internet storage device is a huge win. Yeah, maybe it's a good idea and they should do it, but that will be just as easy for others to duplicate as the PVR business.

    2) I'm not sure whether Jarvis is hinting that they should become a warez enabler, but if he is, that's a dead-end business plan. As surely as piracy will continue to exist, that surely will it remain impossible to run a major business on that model in developed countries.

  10. Ala-carte viewing by Aggrazel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would be nice if they could stream the TV shows off the internet so you could buy what channels (or what shows) you wanted ala-carte. I hate paying $40 a month for my cable when I only watch one network (ESPN) that isn't on the basic $10 a month list.

  11. Sounds great by TrippTDF · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Content aggregation sounds like a great idea, but remember that cable companies have a lot of exisiting ties with the media companies that actually produce the content. Even if Tivo starts doing this, the second they turn profitable the cable companies will play their relationships (I've worked in entertainment... the whole industry is about the relationships) with the media companies to undercut Tivo and get them out. I like the idea of Tivo, but I think the company is fighting an uphill battle.

    I say they get bought by Comcast or Time Warner before the end of the decade.

  12. I want my IP TV by steelem · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Seriously Tivo, make it happen - screw cable companies, start making deals with history channel, discovery, etc. and provide their content on demand. That will be the only way forward. And when is this netflix deal going to be a reality in terms of service? Hurry, there's not much time for you guys...

  13. Tivo box after TIVO exits by essaunders · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not to sound pessimistic, but what happens to all the Tivo boxes if the subscription Tivo relies on goes away? Can they be converted to work with other schedulers? Would they at least maintain a basic 'dumb' disk-based VCR like capability?

    1. Re:Tivo box after TIVO exits by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Informative

      Canadians with TiVo are already doing this since they don't have access to the official TiVo service. Presumably, we'd have to start doing it in the US, too. The basic idea is that you have a "dummy TiVo service" for your box to log into. The dummy service, in turn, downloads programming info in XML format, much like MythTV. The data is then reparsed so that the Tivo unit can understand it. I'm just praying someone will make a Knoppix CD that can automate all that if/when the time comes.

    2. Re:Tivo box after TIVO exits by Ondo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to sound pessimistic, but what happens to all the Tivo boxes if the subscription Tivo relies on goes away? Can they be converted to work with other schedulers? Would they at least maintain a basic 'dumb' disk-based VCR like capability?

      Series 1 boxes stay as 'dumb' VCRs. Series 2 boxes, apparently not.

      However, the TiVo is very hackable, and people (reportedly) know how to add guide data. Such hacks are unreleased now out of respect for TiVo, but if they go out of business they'll probably be available.

  14. The first out of the gate almost always loses by Anita+Coney · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Apple had the first GUI, but it lost to the Windows. Dreamcast came out first, but lost to the PS2. Sony was first with Beta, but lost to VHS. And Diamond Multimedia came out with the first MP3 player, but TOTALLY lost out to Apple!

    I would be MORE shocked if Tivo actually survived.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  15. TiVo will fail. by EvilMagnus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The sad truth is this: TiVo will fail.

    The reasons are simple:

    1. The cable companies are rolling their own DVRs. TiVo failed to get traction here, and it will kill them.

    2. TiVo has hobbled itself. There were features out there that could have helped them (essentially value adds above and beyond the cable company DVRs), but they were too slow to market, and too restrictive in their implementation. Examples: TiVo to Go. Network-able TiVos. Commercial skip. Good features, but TiVo hobbled them (or implemented them late) either through proprietary standards or by not officially advertising them to Joe Sixpack.

    --
    -EvilMagnus
  16. Too Many Tivo Posts! by Evil+W1zard · · Score: 2, Informative

    Can TiVo Be Saved? - Feb. 22 (Answer: NO)

    Will New Apps Keep TiVo Afloat? - Feb. 16 (Answer: NO)

    Has TiVo's Fate Been Sealed? Jan. 17 (Answer: NO)

    The No's have it now Die TiVo Die!

    --
    News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
  17. Star Trek Enterprise, Arrested Development, etc.. by fz00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With all these online petitions to save these series with cult followings, you'd think that TiVo would see that as an opportunity. Imagine buying shows at $1 an episode. Or a full season for a discount. TiVo really needs to turn itself into a delivery platform if it wants to survive. I'm surprised they haven't done it already. I hate to say it but with my ReplayTV, I effictively get free cable via Poopli . I do this because such a service is not available. I would pay if one did exist though... less work!

  18. This just in: Tivo passes 3 million subscribers by EulerX07 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Kinda funny that I finish reading an article on news.com about them exceeding 3 million subscribers, to find out on slashdot that it's dying.

    Is it dying faster or slower then Apple and BSD?

    Disclaimer: Not a Tivo subscriber. I'd like to, but you can't get some of that in Canada.

  19. Cue economics 101 by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1. "My cable company's DVR works just fine, why should I pay extra for a TiVO?"

    A cable DVR from Crime-Warner is like $8 a month and does several things SA Tivos don't do, like digital sound and HD, and doesn't require hackery like IR emitters and glacial channel changing speeds.

    I'll agree that it's substandard software to be sure, but when ordinary people make decisions it comes down to money -- an SA Tivo takes YEARS (box + lifetime) before its ROI exceeds the cable box, and the cable box can be traded in through a cable retail store any time for a newer box.

    It's not that Tivo isn't better, but to most people the "better" doesn't matter, the worse does (IR hackery, no HD, etc), and it's a much more expensive hardware INVESTMENT.

  20. Well... by Adapt+or+Die · · Score: 2, Interesting
    A good number of TiVo subscribers subscribe through DirecTV and their DirecTiVo feature. Cheaper monthy rate, dual tuners, etc. I know, because I am one of them.

    So, when DirecTV releases information like this about them releasing their own DVR later this year, TiVo proper stands to lose a lot of its market share. There was also the issue between TiVo and Comcast where TiVo pulled itself from a deal with the cable company. Lots of folks believe this was a bad move as well.

    The only good news on the DirecTV side is that DTV is currently rolling out a new software update for those who own the present DirecTiVo machines. What impact they feel this will have on the forthcoming DirecTV branded machines is uncertain. (i.e. Is this the first of a string of new updates to DirecTiVo... or is this the final nod to the collaboration?)

  21. TV Needs To Die by kiwidefunkt · · Score: 2, Funny

    After all, TV cancelled Firefly and Family Guy. Wait, just Fox. Just Fox needs to die.

    --
    www.kiwilyrics.com - a wiki for lyrics
  22. Re:Free TiVo? by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is TiVo free? Last I heard no. In which case expect me to take no part in it. Sorry TiVo, but I like my money in my pocket.

    That's funny!

    Indeed, everything should always be free. We should all get paid for doing our work, but should be able to get all of the stuff and services we want for free. That would be perfect! And then, cool new free companies would have all sorts of incentives to hire lots of people to invent even cooler new things that they'd give away for free! Excellent! Everyone would just have all sorts of money, and all sorts of cool things, too! Fantastic!

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  23. Household Name Syndrome. by fishbowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tivo made a certain kind of impact, the kind where their name has become a verb for recording TV. That does not guarantee long term success of course.

    Today we xerox on a Canon. It's probably a bit previous-generation, but every refrigerator was a Frigidaire, even when Frigidaire's market share had dwindled. In lots of places, every soft drink is a "coke". I've heard different convenience stores being referred to as "the 7-Eleven". And so on.

    Tivo might have lasted just long enough to spawn this effect. "I missed the show but I Tivo'd it."

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  24. DirecTivo by sho222 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe the best bet for Tivo's survival is to get acquired by DirecTV. The Tivo/DirecTV (or "DirecTivo") integration is excellent. I can't even remember how I watched tv at all before I had my DirecTivo box.

    Anyone who has tried Comcast's alternative to Tivo knows that the interface is completely horrible. It actually makes me angry just to think about it.

    When I move this summer, I'm planning on continuing with DirecTV service rather than switching to cable strictly because of the tight integration with Tivo. The Tivo partnership is already a huge asset to DirecTV, they might as well add Tivo to their balance sheet and make it official.

    Tivo is my favorite robot friend (next is Roomba). Tivo has made TV fun and interesting again. I discovered Battlestar Galactica thanks to Tivo. I think I'd cry if Tivo died... seriously.

    1. Re:DirecTivo by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Informative

      No. DirecTV has made it clear that they want all the dollars, so they're going to roll their own. It's a shame, really, as the concept for the MPEG4 boxes is very interesting - one server (4 tuners, 250-400GB) connected to remote set top boxes. Pick your remote box as SD or HD (per your set). All the content is shared on the main box. With TiVo, I had hopes of a really nice interface, with DTV calling all th shots, it's probably not going to be pretty.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  25. Fixing TiVo? by unfortunateson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I really, really like my 1st-gen Tivo. Streaming the whole world's content is probably not in their cards, because of the enormous legal costs to get that started (and defended).

    A good first step would be a CableCard-enabled TiVo, so that it can sit directly on those DRM-laden digital cable nets. But there has to be a significant [b]perceived[/b] improvement over the existing cableco-owned PVR. Multiple tuners, better UI, HD... but it's going to be awfully hard to generate revenue when the cableco's give their boxes away.

    Too bad there's no CableCard equivalent for DirecTV, VOOM, and EchoStar.

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
  26. Too late by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I want nobody to ever mess with 30 second skip. DO NOT FUCK WITH 30 SECOND SKIP.

    I got the Charter DVR service from Charter Communications as a test, which is a Motorola BMC9012 running Digeo's MOXI software.

    When first set up, the skip button was a 30 second skip, and replay was a 7 second reverse jump.

    After the box downloaded its first software update, the skip button stopped working. It became a 15 minute skip. What the fuck purpose is a 15 minute skip?

    I called Charter to inquire about this. I asked what the purpose of the 15 minute skip button was; they responded that it was to jump quickly into a program (WTF?). I asked them why it was no longer a 30 second skip. The person I was talking to responded that it was "illegal" to have a 30 second skip.

    After I recovered myself from this egregiously wrong statement, I informed him there was no state of federal law prohibiting a 30 second skip on a PVR, and further informed him of other PVRs that do just that. He insisted there was "a law". I asked to speak to his supervisor, who again told me it was "against the law" to have a 30 second skip, and that Charter had to "obey they law". I again informed him there was no such law, and asked him to cite any such law. The conversation essentially went nowhere. I tried the next day with the same result.

    While pondering the absurdity of it all, I got a call back from a manager at Charter who had apparently become aware of my call. He apologized for the phone representatives saying that it was "illegal"...he said, essentially, that they shouldn't have said it was "illegal" or "against the law", but that Charter had "legal concerns" with its content providers and advertisers. I pointed out that Charter's corporate "legal concerns" are a lot different than something being "illegal", and that the phone agents might not want to tell people that.

    But ultimately, how many people will get DVR services like this and never know there was such a thing as a 30-second skip? They'll be tickled that they can record 40 hours of video (not knowing they could record 400 by just adding a drive, which of course is disabled on this box) and fast forward through commercials like a VCR, and that they can pay Charter an extra monthly fee to watch the recorded content on another TV in their own home (not knowing that it's technically possible to also watch it on their laptop, PDA, portable media player, or anywhere else they should be able to watch it). And the ones who do know about the 30-second skip will probably swallow Charter's "we can't do it because it's illegal" copout.

    And when July rolls around, those same people won't wonder how we're unable to do things we could do 30 years ago with the VCR when their DVR box tells them they're not allowed to record ER in HD (and that they must watch it live), and a call to Charter only elicits the blameless "Well, we have to follow what the TV networks make us do - it's not our fault..."

    The cable and satellite providers might be in the best position to provide DVR services that can tune all of the subscribed channels on their networks directly, without having to have some kind of convoluted IR Blaster setup or multiple settops, but they're also in the best position to severely restrict the featuresets and functionality of those boxes as well...

    1. Re:Too late by LaCosaNostradamus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's a suddenly-realized question for you: Why don't VCRs have a 30-sec skip feature? I've never seen one.

      For that matter, why don't VCR (and now DVD) players have 2-level sound settings? I've noticed that movies generally have ultra-loud scenes and soft scenes, like battles and conversations; it would be useful to have 2 sound levels set to accomodate these.

      --
      [You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
  27. Apple's Tivo Videocasting Service or iTunes+Video by metoc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Take a page from Apple.

    Build a content sales and distribution network to feed you hardware business.

    Apple uses iTunes to promote iPods. Tivo should build an internet version of a cable specialty channel, and distribute content. Bittorrent does it now, Tivo can do it for the Tivoted.

    Apple are you listening? A repackaged Mac Mini (Mac PVR) with TV tuner, more storage, a dedicated remote control and a bittorrent flavoured version of iTunes. And while you are at it buy Tivo. And remember, do it with STYLE

  28. You mean just like ReaplyTV? by skintigh2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "What if the company went private and became the anti-cable, letting us download, store, organize, and serve media from both cable and -- this is the important part -- the internet."

    And they could include networking hardware for free, and networking software for free, and share TV over the Internet, and share it to the PC using free open source software, and then they could change their name to ReplayTV since they have been doing all of that for years?

    Yes, sharing and auto-commercial-skipping is disabled in the new ones, but who buys the new ones.

    But seriously, if Tivo copied everything my Replay does (and maybe call it "innovating" like they did with Tivo To Go) and let me **store** and play my MP3s from the Tivo, I would covert in a heartbeat. I have yet to see a stereo component that lets me store my MP3s - I either have to use my portable, or spend $300 for a fancy LCD that needs my computer running 24/7.

  29. Actually, Tivo can come back with HDTV by DaFrogBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the greatest things about HDTV is that it is sent over the air. Why pay for a cable service at all if you can get the shows you want via antenna and get the highest quality available. Not to mention, you can search shows and get a guide of what's on through your Tivo.

    I think *because* of HDTV that Tivo will come back.

    Cable/Satelite $65 per month with DVR functionality

    Over the Air HDTV $14 per month with Tivo service

    I'll save the extra $50 a day gladly.

  30. Bankruptcy by fm6 · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... until TiVo either declares bankruptcy, gets acquired, or (hopefully) reports a profitable quarter.
    I wish people would stop using "bankruptcy" to mean "going out of business". Bankruptcy is just a device for postpoining or cancelling your debts. Companies use it to stay in business.
  31. You're right and you're wrong by donutello · · Score: 2, Informative

    You're right in that On Demand pretty much sucks. There are hardly any programs that you would actually want to watch - unless if you have HBO, I guess. Also, the VCR-style buttons are very laggy and very annoying to use.

    You're wrong in that On Demand is Comcast's answer to TiVO. DVR is Comcast's answer to TiVo. They don't advertise it yet, but if you call Comcast, they will have a DVR box installed in your home soon. For $9.99 a month you get a dual-tuner HD box with a 120GB HD. I've had it for about 2 months now and apart from the non-intuitive remote and the fact that Comcast won't implement or allow the 30-second skip, I haven't found a single thing to complain about with the box. You don't need to buy any expensive equipment and the subscription cost is loser than TiVo for what is a more capable box. That is what will kill TiVo.

    Did I mention, it's HIGH Definition? I don't even have an HDTV but the HD signals are so much better than the analog signals that I find myself not wanting to watch any shows on analog anymore.

    --
    Mmmm.. Donuts
  32. Over half are directv, and directv ditched tivo. by raygundan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hard to say. The "oh crap, they're dying" most likely comes from the fact that the majority of their subscribers are through DirecTV, and that DirecTV has chosen both not to renew their contract with Tivo and to pursue their own DVRs.

    They're probably still raking in customers, but the majority of them are still DirecTV folks. And those will start to disappear as DirecTV drops support and people start upgrading in a few years. I believe the contract is through 2007. With DirecTV's impending move to MPEG4, the existing tivo units won't even work once the transition is complete. The HD-Tivo owners will get screwed first, as HD locals will be the first to move to mpeg4, followed by non-local HD, and finally by all the SD channels.

    I'm hoping tivo succeeds, though-- I've really liked the two tivos I've had, despite the sluggishness of the directv models. I'm hoping that the upcoming dual-tuner cablecard unit (buy it and use it on any cable system) will finally do what i want. Dual tuner, fully digital recording, all the SA tivo features, and the ability to move from network to network.

  33. Here's why TiVo won't live on by zutroy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    TiVo doesn't have direct access to the broadband cable stream. It has to rely on stupid little dongles like IR transmitters to communicate with the cable box and change the channel.

    This means that dual-tuner TiVos won't work unless you have two cable boxes, too.

    And then there's the HD problem: TiVos other than DirecTiVos can't record it. This is a big deal for those of us who have switched over to HDTV. I like being able to time-shift a prettier picture.

    I have the Motorola HDTV dual-tuner DVR at home, on Comcast cable. It may not do exactly what a TiVo does, but it's very close. I can set it up to record every time a new episode of a show comes on. I can make it record 2 TV shows, in HD, simultaneously. I can get on-demand programming. And you can even hack the remote (and I use "hack" loosely here) to give you back your precious 30-second skip.

    It doesn't make show recommendations for me, but honestly, I don't care. It does everything else, and it does it well. My parents have TiVo, and they can't record one show while watching another, nor can they time-shift HDTV content.

    TiVo has to fix these shortcomings somehow. It may be that the only way is to partner with the cable companies to get access to the cable box hardware.

    1. Re:Here's why TiVo won't live on by powerlord · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not sure why your parents can't watch one recorded program while they are recording another, but ...

      http://www.tivo.com/5.3.1.1.asp?article=234

      1/6/2005

      TiVo Developing High-Definition, Digital Cable Ready DVR

      TiVo® DVR with CableCARD Will Offer Flexible, Fully Featured Platform for Accessing HD Broadcast and Broadband Content

      January 6, 2005 - CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW, Las Vegas, NV - TiVo (NASDAQ: TIVO) today will demonstrate a high definition, digital cable ready DVR that will enable TiVo subscribers to access the growing number of high definition broadcasts available over the air or through their cable provider without a separate set-top box. The DVR will support CableCARD technology, enabling consumers to access their favorite premium and HD cable channels with the ease of use and powerful search capabilities of the TiVo® service. Moreover, as part of the "Tahiti" strategy announced at CES today, the new DVR will also allow consumers to access, download, and manage broadband content.

      "We believe that the deployment of CableCARD technology is an essential development for the future of digital television. By eliminating the need for a separate set top box, consumers will enjoy more choice and flexibility over their entertainment delivery," said Mike Ramsay, chairman and chief executive officer, TiVo. "TiVo will play a key role in driving this technology forward to bring it to the masses."

      TiVo's HD CableCARD DVR will be a premium product marketed toward consumers that want the very best in home entertainment. Consumers will be able to record their favorite entertainment from many different sources - high-definition channels, premium cable channels, and video content available via broadband.

      CableCARDs free consumers from needing a cable set top box and offer consumers choice in how they get their digital entertainment. By providing consumer choice, companies like TiVo can provide an alternative to the traditional cable set top box and offer innovative services and content that address the consumer's personal interests.

      The new HD CableCARD DVR is in development and TiVo plans to launch the product early next year.

      For more information about any of the announcements made by TiVo at the Consumer Electronics Show, please visit www.tivo.com/ces.

      --
      This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  34. I'm not a 'hater' by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    2. "I don't watch TV, why do I want a TiVo?"

    This is not a nonsense excuse, it's a real reason not to pay for television.
    I've watched television since my parents got their first set in 1964. I was watching eight hours a day in the early 1970's.
    But no more. Television is an extremely limited medium. there are only five things:
    1: Sentimental pseudo-dramas with endless close-up shots of actors overacting under heavy lights and heavy make-up.
    2: Canned laughter situation-comedies that are rarely if ever actually funny.
    3. Talking heads going on endlessly; saying nothing.
    4. The Game. Televising 'da game, man' hasn't changed much in fifty years. Turn on a TV and within a half-second you know if you have on 'the game'. It never stops; it never changes. You either like it or not.
    5. Commercials. They used to be 60 seconds, now they are all 30 or 15 seconds. Some people consider them to be a unique American art form; some people consider pissing on a electric wire to be an art form. Nearly everyone thinks commercials suck and trys to avoid them.

    That's it. That's all television is. And, it is all that it will ever be. Because of its institutional structure and technical limitations, it is all television can ever be.

    Myself, I would rather watch DVDs, ride bicycle, write code, dance, make love, or eat pizza than watch television.

    Nothing that the television industry can do could make me go back to watching television. It's not hatred or contempt. It's just that television is simply too limited for me anymore. I've seen everything that it can possibly do. I've just gone beyond it. It doesn't matter any more how cheap that it is or what format it is.
    5.

    1. Re:I'm not a 'hater' by BinxBolling · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Nothing that the television industry can do could make me go back to watching television.

      I used to think the same thing; I quit television 5 years ago, when I realized I didn't get nearly enough out of it to warrant the time I spent in fron of it. My roommate had a tube, but I only ever used it for DVDs and video games. Then, less than a year ago, he got a TiVo. I watch TV again, now. Not a ton -- less than an hour on an average day. But I get a lot more pleasure out of it than when I was watching two or three hours a day.

      There are good things on television -- your list really isn't complete. It's just that it's not usually worth the effort to watch them if you have to synchronize your personal schedule with that of the broadcasters and when 25% of your viewing time is wasted on commercials. TiVo lets you sit down any time you want and get through a "hour long" show in 45 minutes, and that changes the cost/benefit analysis a lot.

    2. Re:I'm not a 'hater' by heavy+snowfall · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ever heard of discovery channel or history channel? The few hours a week i watch TV, it's one of them.

  35. tivo hardware costs by hawk · · Score: 2, Informative

    The regular tivos are certainly expensive. THe directivo, however, can be had for $99 installed. Or, if you already have directv, you can still get it for $99. Sometimes $49. Even free sometimes if you already have directv, possibly with a tivo, and ask for it.

    Then add the $5/month for tivo service through directv.

    hawk

  36. Tivo Not in Danger by mtaco · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DVRs are obviously here to stay no matter what happens. People who own TiVos are addicted to them and the satellite and cable guys are moving to emulate them, not supplant them. So far, most of their offerings are lame from what I've seen so TiVO clearly has an opportunity.

    Granted, stand-alone DVRs may not survive. Instead, your DVR will probably be integrated into your paid-TV pipe as more and more of those pipes go digital. I have a DirecTiVo and it rocks. If it stopped working, I'd drop my whole satellite subscription entirely and stop watching regular TV entirely. It wouldn't be much of a sacrifice as before my DirectTiVo, I didn't have regular TV, I just watched DVDs. I only got regular TV after 9/11, and since then I've found that the regular news coverage is so bad that you're better informed if you DON'T watch TV. Bottom line for me is that TV is only worth watching with a DVR.

    So I see that TiVO could easily survive simply by being the standard "operating system" for set-top boxes and satellite recievers. The subscription fee can then be rolled into the fee for the monthly service, or subsidized like mine is. (DirectTV only charges $5/month for the TiVO part). Assuming its even necessary as my DirectTiVO gets all its program information from the satellite anyways.

    However, at 3 million subscribers, that's easily enough to keep the company afloat no matter what happens.

    So TiVO as separate box you buy at Circuit City? Probably not going to last. TiVo as a "feature" of your cable/satellite box? Inevitable.

  37. Tivo HD prices will be their death by drmemnoch · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was a long time Tivo subscriber. Then I bought an HDTV.

    I knew that I would need to upgrade my Tivo to support HD. I was hit by sticker shock!!! $1000 smackeroonies for the Directv-Tivo unit that supports HD. I explored other options. Low and behold, Dish Network had a similiar unit which i could rent for $5 a month.

    I will spare you the details since you can do math. But my thought process was this, the useful life on something like this is 3 years before new tech is needed.

    $1000 over three years versus $5 a month over three years. That's an $800 dollar difference. You can guess what this Tivo subscriber did.

    --
    Those who can do... Those who can't get a certification from Cisco or Microsoft.
  38. What's the revenue model for the SDK? by dmorin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    As a coder I love the fact they've released an SDK (Java, even!). I've successfully gotten apps to run on my tv. That alone is cool, and conjures up no end of daydreams about the sort of thing that could be enabled with such a home-centralized console. When I hear the Comcast commercials and think "Saving money would be nice" I immediately think "Yes, but I can write code for Tivo," I'm not giving that up. Even if I don't write any reasonable code for it I trust the open source community to come up with some good stuff.

    But that's me. I'm a geek. How are they going to make money from that, does anybody know? Is there a plan to start buying applications from the community and selling them as add on services or something? Or perhaps licensing them so that I as an author make some money based on how many people subscribe to my application? (Imagine the horror show of technical support THAT would be!)

    Surely they can't have gone through all this trouble just to keep we coders thrilled. How does this scale to the larger audience and get Tivo back in the game?

  39. What's so bad about TiVo failing? by wilson_c · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So...for the sake of argument, let's say that TiVo goes bankrupt and are unable to find additional financing. What's gonna happen? They'll be bought, probably by one of the larger content distributors (Comcast, DirecTV, Charter, whoever).

    Anyone buying TiVo wants two things:
    1. The TiVo brand. Can you even name another PVR brand? Nobody says "I've got to PVR that show". TiVo is the ONLY product with any name recognition in the marketplace.

    2. The TiVo functionality. As anyone who as ever used one knows, there's no comparison to other PVRs. It's got a great interface and is remarkably stable (not perfect, but pretty close).

    To mess with either of those threatens to devalue what they've purchased.

    Sure, there might be some rough spots when the new owners cow to pressure from content providers, but ultimately the marketplace wins on these things and it will become incrasingly hard for content providers to explain why they want to sue distributors for allowing their customers to do what they've come to expect.

  40. ReplayTV? by msblack · · Score: 2, Informative
    What, no mention of ReplayTV? They beat Tivo to the market by a few days/weeks. ReplayTV handles some features better than Tivo and some worse:
    • ReplayTV doesn't store content which you don't specifically request. No Tivo commercials or content taking space you allocated to a show you wanted to record.
    • Tivo's season pass works better than ReplayTV which doesn't understand episode repeats.
    • ReplayTV has the 30 second skip missing from cable/dish PVRs
    • One ReplayTV model had the commercial skip feature.
    • Newer ReplayTV models let you share content with other ReplayTV boxes or PCs.
    I've been considering the Dish 921 PVR with two HD tuners. You can record two shows and watch stored content from a third. They recently cut their price in half to about $500. I'm told the menuing sucks and the record function works like a VCR by time and misses a show if the time changes after programming. Anyone else using the Dish 921?
    --
    signature pending slashdot approval
  41. Re:Nonsense by nightsweat · · Score: 2, Informative

    $99 is expensive? That's what I've seen Series II boxes going for.

    The cable company product most definitely is NOT a better product. Can you fast forward through American Idol? Not on some Comcast supplied boxes. That's just a preview of what you can expect in the future as your ability to fast forward, skip commercials, retain recordings for long times, etc.. is stripped from those boxes.

    --

    the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
  42. Fast Followers and Disruptive Technology by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We'll see how this plays out. Either the technical superiority of TiVo will win out or the lower-cost, lower-quality options that the cable companies can offer will win out. Actually it's likely that both will win and retain some part of the market, the question is, how large a part for each respectively?

    If you haven't already it sounds like you need to read The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen. The DVRs the cable companies put out don't have to be better to put TiVo out of business. They just have to be good enough, cheaper and easy to get. Being a technology leader is only valuable if three things are true. First, that you can stay a technology leader and protect that position. (through futher innovation, patents, etc) Second, that your technology leadership either lets you be the low cost provider OR that customers value your technology such that it lets you charge a premium for your services. Third, that you have economicly viable access to the right distribution channels. TiVo is arguably the technology leader in the DVR industry but I think it is failing on the maybe the second and definitely the third conditions.

    Let me give you an example. Most of us criticize (rightly IMO) Microsoft for a lack of innovation. But being the leader isn't always the best business strategy. Economists call Microsoft a fast follower. They don't innovate. They don't know how to. And if they tried, they'd fail. But what they do very successfully is watch the leaders in the market and then copy their innovations while leveraging their strengths in marketing, distribution. OS/2 challeged Windows NT a few years back. Result? Windows 95. It wasn't better than OS/2 technologically but it was good enough and Microsoft controled the distribution channels. (plus IBM shot themselves in the foot repeatedly) They can learn from the innovations and mistakes of the innovators and come out with a good enough product that most customers will buy. Sure, it's not a glamorous strategy but being a fast follower can be very, very effective.

    The downside of being a fast follower? You might not be able to catch the market leader if you aren't quick enough. Microsoft hasn't been able to catch Intuit with their Microsoft Money product despite years of trying. They got caught on the wrong side of an installed base. Being a successful fast follower requires lots of resources and an acute ear for what the market is telling you. But it also means that if there is a fundamental shift in the market or if you misread the market, you're screwed. Microsoft may have be screwed because Open Source could be one of those tectonic shifts ("disruptive technologies" in my Christensen's terminologies) that fundamentally alters the market place such that their own organizational structure no longer permits them to compete effectively. Whether this is actually the case remains the be seen.

    The other problem with being a fast follower is that if you are too good, you end up a monopoly with no on to copy from. As a result a successful fast follower either stagnates or has to move into other industries to grow. Microsoft is in this position right now. Their core OS and Office products are stagnant monopolies. Very profitable but unlikely to provide massive growth. So Microsoft is having to branch out into other lines of business. Dell is doing somewhat the same thing. They're so successful in selling PC's they are having to branch into printers, PDAs and other technologies to continue to grow.

  43. Slightly offtopic/ Fix the reception method by haplo21112 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way that both cable and SAT are received into the home is so stupid to begin with anyway. If it were fixed (which would probably take government intervention to make companies do it right), TIVO's fortunes would probably be better.

    I have long believed that the providers should only have to install one box in my house in the basement where the cable enters the house. That box should decode all the channels that I have contacted for with my provider. Then those signals should be sent to all of the cable outlets in my house. They used to do something similar to this (I lived in an apartment in Marlborough, MA that did this up until 1999) with the channels effectively de-scrambled at the pole. Only the cable entered the apartment and any TV could watch any channel including the premium ones. Alas that ended in early 2000 when they sent us a letter saying would have to get boxes for continued premium service. (Might I add right after we got the box and all was well for a brief time, we also had to 4 day outage when the screwed the whole transition up, that's another story.)

    --
    Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
  44. TiVo probably deserves to die by podperson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a recent TiVo customer (who bought a lifetime subscription) I can't say I'm enormously impressed.

    First, key features that loyal customers raved about have been removed from more recent products (preseumably as a result of pressure from content-owners). So we have a product that in some ways is getting worse rather than better.

    Second, I find the interface quite clumsy. (Sure, it's PRETTY.) It seems like every operation has extra, pointless steps (many of which are confirming non-destructive operations). There is no undo (you can't undelete a program you just deleted in error). The remote control is almost axially symmetric, meaning that in the dark it's quite easy to point it in exactly the wrong direction.

    Third, the out-of-box experience is terrible. It initially needs several hours just to start working (I have no idea why) and it initially incorrectly identified where I live and refused to download the right TV timetable. Even when this was corrected, it continues to record infomercials and label them "Scrubs".

    Finally, TiVo persistently tries to sell stuff to you.

    TiVo's problems, I think, lie in (a) a failure to decide who their customer is and serve their needs and (b) a lack of attention to usability.

    Item (a) is a strategic problem (they seem torn between wanting to partner with content providers, wanting to become a content provider and sell their own advertising space, and wanting to become a video napster 1.0), whereas (b) is tactical (they simply need to stop paying attention to their fawning fans and do some serious self-criticism).