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Intel Flaunts Mac mini Knock-off

Rollie Hawk writes "Remember how the Mac mini was designed by Apple to steal PC customers? Now Intel wants to steal them back. Adopting a shockingly similar lunch box shape and light-weight design, Intel's upcoming Mini PC features all the sleekness and portability (physical, that is) of the Mac mini with none of the Mac benefits. Well, at least it will probably have a faster processor. Now if only someone would make a Cobalt Qube knock-off for me."

138 of 1,092 comments (clear)

  1. i is for innovation by oftheapes · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's good to see innovation coming from Intel.

    Now I remember why I buy AMD.

    1. Re:i is for innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I just bought a Mini, its not about the innovation of the computer, I already have an AMD based small form factor computer. I bought the Mac Mini cause it was OSX affordable. No other reason.
      I dont want XP anymore for my home/family computer.
      Linux isn't ready yet when compared to OSX.

      Intel just doesn't get it. I'm not surprised...

      Intel, its Microsoft that is going to kill you!

    2. Re:i is for innovation by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So Intel was actually first with 64-bit x86 and dual core x86 chips?

  2. it's an empty case by way2trivial · · Score: 5, Informative
    built soley for show..

    they haven't done anything but stick a clock on the face of an empty stylish plastic box yet.

    apple is shipping....

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:it's an empty case by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Insightful
      built soley for show.. they haven't done anything but stick a clock on the face of an empty stylish plastic box yet. apple is shipping....

      Sounds like what you'll find a lot of at a CES. Seriously, there was something called The Brick ages ago, so this still isn't anything new. And what about all this Mini ITX stuff which has been around for years? Next...

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:it's an empty case by JHromadka · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Has the PC industry really gotten that bad so that they don't do anything but copy Apple? First eMachines copies the iMac, now Intel is trying to show that PCs can be mini too. I know it's a mockup, but do something original instead of copying the color of the mini.

      Why is it so hard to make a decent-looking case that doesn't look like someone riced it up with stupid lights or clear plastic? I just ordered the parts to build a PC, and the hardest part was finding a case that didn't look like crap. I wasn't successful.

      --
      "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    3. Re:it's an empty case by ghoti · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I just ordered the parts to build a PC, and the hardest part was finding a case that didn't look like crap. I wasn't successful.

      This is really interesting. Since I've seen (and eventually bought ;) an Apple Powerbook, all those black plastic PC laptops make me want to puke. They just look like total crap. And even when companies like Samsung try to copy the Apple look, the results look ugly.
      Same with desktops. Why can't somebody come up with a decent design? And why are the Apple guys able to just get it right? And not just once, but most of their stuff looks really amazing. It's not like there aren't any designers out there ...
      --
      EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    4. Re:it's an empty case by emilymildew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mention that the next time someone talks about how outrageously expensive Macs are. Design costs money. Designers cost money.

    5. Re:it's an empty case by johnpaul191 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      the current mini ITX board will not fit inside the Mac Mini's case if you are trying to get the same footprint.... remember when Kevin Rose from TechTV tried to put a windows running thing in the Mac Mini case? he used a pre-release nano-ITX mobo.
      This intel mockup is an empty plastic box with a wristwatch glued to the front. while Kevin could not fit in an optical drive, he got a lot farther than Intel did.
      on top of that the Mac Mini has some extra room and an unused internal firewire connection that this week sparked speculation of possible future revision, or that the rumored built in iPod dock was in the plans at some point.

      http://www.kevinrose.com/index.php/weblog/comments /project_mini_pc/

    6. Re:it's an empty case by JoeWalsh · · Score: 5, Funny

      Corrected article follows:

      Intel Flaunts Empty Plastic Case

      In a stunning show of shamelessness in the face of a total lack of innovation, Intel today unveiled to a gaggle of gullible corporate lackeys and ass-kissing note-takers their newest product: an empty plastic box. An Intel spokesperson said they hope that some day, someone will build a computer to put in the box. At that point, they hope to load it down with the deeply flawed and customer-hostile Microsoft Windows operating system, thereby releasing misery from the confines of dens and offices and into family rooms worldwide.

    7. Re:it's an empty case by emilymildew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't have one. I'm saying that people here and elsewhere complain a lot about how expensive Macs are but nobody seems to take into account that there were some pretty high up designers that made all this pretty machinery and someone has to pay THEM for their work.

      I never said that *I* think Macs are too expensive. I think you get exactly what you pay for - a superior machine both in design and execution.

    8. Re:it's an empty case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Equivalent in what way? A PC is more than its processor speed.

      I think you'd have to also consider usability, security, size, noise, longevity, style, included software, included hardware ...

      Macs usually lose on the included hardware aspect, whilst winning on everything else. However most people seem to judge a computer solely by the included hardware, and those people are fucking retards because of it.

    9. Re:it's an empty case by ghoti · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to say it, but perhaps being the perfect geek isn't everybody's ultimate goal in life.
      Maybe I'm just getting old, but I start valueing good design and thought put into things. I also value the fact that my computers now are almost perfectly silent - I don't want to sit next to an open case with whirring harddisks and fans anymore. A silent and well-designed computer serves me much better than one that has 100 times the power - that I'm not using anyway.

      --
      EagerEyes.org: Visualization and Visual Communication
    10. Re:it's an empty case by reachinmark · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right - buy a Mac Mini for 500 bucks and you get XCode included for free. Buy a PC and you have to shell out a thousand more just for a copy of Microsoft Visual Studio. That makes a Mac FAR cheaper for me, as a C++ developer.

    11. Re:it's an empty case by fitten · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep... A guy I know bought a "The Brick" machine way back when. It was pretty nice.

    12. Re:it's an empty case by northcat · · Score: 3, Informative

      Windows != PC. You can get all that and more on Linux. And it runs on Macs too.

    13. Re:it's an empty case by badasscat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Before going neon to match the trendy VW Bugs, did you notice that Apple went thin and silver/white to mimic the Sony Vaio? All good ideas have been done. What's next, a lava-lamp computer case?

      Not sure it qualifies as a "good idea" that's been done, but it has been done...

      (For extra fun, make sure you've got a mouth full of your favorite beverage before clicking that link.)

    14. Re:it's an empty case by Altus · · Score: 3, Interesting



      dont a lot of the mac desktops have internal firewire ports? Im pretty sure the G4 towers did although I am not sure about the G5. I wonder how much the presence of one really indicates that they intended to use it for an iPod doc.

      you do have to wonder why they would put one in the mini though. there is no hope of adding an internal firewire device.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    15. Re:it's an empty case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please spec out an AMD64 which does all that while running under 22db of noise off an 85W power supply. Make sure to include firewire, USB2, and a DVD/CDRW. It doesn't need to look good, but cram it into a mini-ITX case.

      Get back to us when you can do that for under $500.

    16. Re:it's an empty case by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good for Intel; only ten years after Sun unveiled the Sparc IPX, several years after IBM/HP/De(u)ll managed to put Intel's own chips onto a machine the size of an add-in card, and several months after Apple.

      On the other hand, since it's currently an empty box, it certainly won't catch any viruses, so it's at least as useful as current full-sized PCs.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
    17. Re:it's an empty case by the+quick+brown+fox · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hope you can return whatever ugly case you bought, because there are some pretty nice looking ones out there... you just have to look really really hard.

      Cases:
      Silverstone LC09 (Mini-ITX)
      Ahanix D4
      Soldam Alphia

      Barebones:
      Shuttle SB86i

      Complete PC:
      Hush

      Most of these are not as cool looking as my Mac Mini, but then, you wouldn't be limited to 1.43GHz G4 and laptop hard drives.

    18. Re:it's an empty case by emilymildew · · Score: 2, Informative

      Maybe you should learn to read what I am saying.

      I didn't call Macs outrageously expensive, I said that the style argument should be brought up when others do. Which happens quite often around here.

      Someone has to pay the designers who created those computers, who made them look better than all the others. Consumers do when they pay more for a Mac. That is my entire point.

      Why don't you go find a real troll and bother them?

    19. Re:it's an empty case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For $500 you could build an amd64 system with "better" hardware that would absolutely knock the panties off a G4 MacMini in terms of sorting, fp/int calcs, ffts and huffman encoding (amond others).

      Right, but there are a couple of caveats. That PC will come in the usual cheap plastic case roughly 15 times bigger than the Mac mini, with fans than remind you of a vacuum cleaner, and to get it under $500 you probably have to pirate most of the software.

      If it breaks you have to drag it down to the PC shop, wait a couple of weeks, and then pick it up again. When a Mac breaks you call Apple, they send out a prepaid FedEx box, and I'll have it back working within a week.

      Even as a unix professional I've come to appreciate these things since they let me concentrate on my work and not fixing computers. I'll give you a splendid example: I recently installed a new Linksys wireless router, and had to upgrade firmware both on that box and on their wireless adapter as well as disabling the Linksys wireless monitor that interefered with windows XP, just to get them talking to each other!

      After spending an hour on it, I realized that next time I'll just shell out the extra money for an all-Apple setup. Not because it is better, but if it doesn't work it's Apple's problem and not mine.

      The point is simply that a lot of people (including unix performance users) simply think it is worth paying a couple of $$$ extra for nice design, good support, not to mention legal software.

    20. Re:it's an empty case by DenDave · · Score: 2, Funny
      Mention that the next time someone talks about how outrageously expensive Macs are. Design costs money.


      499$ ?

      What do you want? Porsche for the Proletariat?

      --
      -if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
    21. Re:it's an empty case by DenDave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Equivalent? In what aspect? MIPS? Software? Cost?

      --
      -if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
    22. Re:it's an empty case by xRelisH · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why can't somebody come up with a decent design?

      Try Lian-Li
      But I agree with you, most stock PC cases are crap, and are too flashy without elegance. I love the Lian-li cases, they're clean and don't look tacky if you decide to put a few quad-LED fans in there. All sharp corners are lined with a plastic to avoid cuts, the cases are easy to take apart, and most models have slide out motherboard trays. However, these cases do cost a premium.

    23. Re:it's an empty case by pyros · · Score: 2, Informative
      by emilymildew (646109) on Thursday March 03, @09:45AM
      Mention that the next time someone talks about how outrageously expensive Macs are

      by emilymildew (646109) on Thursday March 03, @10:45AM
      I didn't call Macs outrageously expensive

      by InadequateCamel (515839) Alter Relationship on 09:52 AM March 3rd, 2005
      WOW. You must be a politician.

      WOW. You must lack the capacity for logic.

      Maybe you should learn to remember what you said 60 minutes ago.

      Maybe you should learn to use the full quote, in context to avoid obscuring the full meaning. emilymildew said "I didn't call Macs outrageously expensive, I said that the style argument should be brought up when others do." That extra bit after the comma fully explains why you are wrong. And you should probably learn to read what other people are saying.

    24. Re:it's an empty case by Refrag · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do you find the $999 iBook outrageously expensive? Most people find it gorgeous, but not expensive.

      --
      I have a website. It's about Macs.
    25. Re:it's an empty case by EggyToast · · Score: 2, Informative
      Even the mac super-computers are quiet. I have a dual 1.8 G5 (the pre-gimped revision, with PCI-X and the bigger HDD) and on top of being one damn fast computer, it's whisper quiet. The FW enclosures I have sitting next to it filled with harddrives are louder, and they're only loud from harddrive whine (which means I want to replace them). Rather than going loud for the dual 2.5's, they went to internal water cooling. Most manufacturers only consider water cooling useful for overclockers, afaik.

      Occasionally when I'm doing heavy work the fans spin up louder... and then go back to whisper quiet.

      iBooks are actual laptops, as far as I'm concerned, as they don't get hot, they don't make noise, and they don't blow hot air. You can actually use them on your lap with no pads or risers. My girlfriend's iBook is eerie, as it turns on and is used pretty heavily, but makes no sound -- when I first used it (not often, it's a work/lab laptop), I almost thought something was wrong!

      To me, it's like comparison shopping for HDD insulation to fit inside your computer that handles heat effectively and cuts down on noise, vs. simply buying a new, quiet harddrive. Or replacing all of your internal fans and case with stuff specifically designed to monitor heat and run at appropriate speeds. Most people have experienced the point where it makes sense to simply buy new stuff instead of kludging together your old crap. To many people, that "new stuff" is a mac, since it hits so many of the points. I know it did for me. I see the software as a bonus, which is a pretty sweet bonus :D

      And the bulk of this post doesn't even consider how much thought is put into the insides of their computers. Working inside a G5 is a treat, since it doesn't feel like "working." Never having to deal with the tangle of cables inside a computer is a treat most x86 users haven't experienced.

    26. Re:it's an empty case by DoctorMO · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your wrong, a mac is alot more than just a fancy box, it's a superor solution in all but one way (Openess), Mac OSX beats any other OS going for desktop productivity, flow and tools (that you don't have to spend days compiling/searching for rpm deps) or configuring.

      More secure than windows, better UI than everything and the hardware is equivical to PC specs (don't confuise x86 with the PowerPC they are very diferent beasts), it's not got enough RAM in the Mac Mini but that can be remedied.

      I just wish you'd check out the things your slagging off before you posted, but then that is the slashdot way.

    27. Re:it's an empty case by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

      For $500 you could build an amd64 system with "better" hardware

      Sounds like a business plan! Get back to us when it exists.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    28. Re:it's an empty case by drsquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So in order to get an equivalent PC, you have to hunt down all the individual pieces yourself. This might be fine for a nerd, but not for a home user who doesn't know what the inside of a computer looks like. Apple does all the work for them.

      Then you need to make sure they're all compatible, and that it all works with your OS. Apple does all this for you.

      Then you need to install the OS, and all the drivers. Find if you're a nerd, but not for everyone else. Apple does all this for you.

      Then if something goes wrong you need to work out which actual component is broken, send it back to the manufacturer at your own expense, then hope they actually send you back a replacement. This is if you know how to work out which part is broken, and how to remove it and replace it. Apple does all this for you.

      Then factor in that the Mac is probably quieter, smaller and better looking.

      The PC might have better individual parts, but the whole of the Mac is more than the sum of the parts.

    29. Re:it's an empty case by Theaetetus · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Game. Set. Match. World... Next.

      And here's why normal people don't claim a win after the first basket:

      You spec'd out XP Home, an intentionally limited "discount" and "lite" version of the OS. So, let's just replace that with the real version of the OS: XP Pro, $153.95 from New Egg. $60 more, and you've already lost, 'cause you're over $500 now.

      But, I'll continue.

      Good find on the CD-RW drive. Now, what do you do when you want to play a DVD?
      Right, the Mac Mini comes with a combo drive. The cheapest one on New Egg (a Rosewill? Who the hell are they?) is $31, so add another 8 dollars.

      Nice giant case, too. Look at the comments in the reviews on New Egg - they say it would be nice if it could be quieter... and that's with the 1 fan in the side. You really think that one fan, plus the one on the power supply, is gonna keep that AMD 64 cool? So, toss in $20 for some more fans, plus another $20-50 for sound dampeners, fan controllers, etc. to try to get it down to the 22 dBA of the Mac Mini. And then fail to do so.

      So, now that you've got all that, what are you going to run on this system of yours? Notepad? Solitare?
      So, add in a copy of Office to compete with Appleworks ($250), a copy of Acid to compete with Garageband ($100), a licensed copy of Acrobat Distiller so that you can create PDFs (it's built in on the Mac), a copy of Adobe Premiere Express to compete with iMovie ($200), a copy of something that can handle full-screen video conferencing (any ideas?), plus a copy of Quicken for your taxes ($30). Oh, and 'cause you're running a Windows box, don't forget the Anti-virus software ($20).

      So, for over $1000, you've got a box that's 10 times larger, 10 times noisier, has discount components (that combo drive) with questionable lifespans, and yes, has a 64-bit processor in it.

      Now you just have to wait for a 64-bit version of Windows.

      -T

    30. Re:it's an empty case by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Funny

      It must be. Only Apple seems able to do it.

    31. Re:it's an empty case by Leo+McGarry · · Score: 3, Informative

      For $500 you could build an amd64 system with "better" hardware that would absolutely knock the panties off a G4 MacMini in terms of sorting, fp/int calcs, ffts and huffman encoding (amond others).

      Um. That's fine and all, but what happens when you actually want to use that computer to do something other that, you know, sorting numbers?

      It's entirely possible that, if you're willing to completely discount the cost of your own labor, you might be able to build an ass-ugly computer for a few hundred bucks. But it won't have any software. How much is the software going to cost you? And don't say "it's free," because we're talking about a Mac here. You can't buy a PC equivalent of iLife at any price, but you can at least get kinda-sorta close by buying various pieces of off-the-shelf software. You can't even get that close using freeware.

      So for your investment of X hundred dollars and countless hours of your own time, you've succeeded in building an empty computer that you then have to spend hundreds or even thousands filling with software.

      Dumb idea.

    32. Re:it's an empty case by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why was that modded as troll? You do get a complete professional development IDE for multiple languages for free with OS X. It's called XCode, and it's not limited by license type or by being cut down. It's teh very same environment that Apple use themselves to develop the OS. As such, it's nearest comparison on Windows is the full professional version of Visual Studio.

    33. Re:it's an empty case by Bilestoad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The built in windows movie editing software is the competitor to iMovie

      Yeah, in the same sense that Pee Wee Herman is a competitor for Lance Armstrong :-)

      Nice handwave over the stuff you don't have an answer for!

    34. Re:it's an empty case by jackspenn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny, I thought PC users where rushing to buy the MAC mini because they were looking to play around with an Apple?

      I had no idea size mattered.

      Listen, I am getting the MAC mini to see how I like OS X. Presently, I toggle between Fedora and XP Professional depending on what I need to get done. Oh, how I long for the one OS that could do all things. The MAC mini lets me really stress test OS X out and if if works, I will make my next laptop an Apple.

      --
      Respect the Constitution
    35. Re:it's an empty case by danila · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, Sony always had uber-sexy Vaio laptops that made people drool for as long as Apple's Powerbooks. And many other manufacturers have great designs. as well. For instance, LG has nice looking laptops and Fujitsu has some beautiful slate TabletPCs.

      Apple has a very strong brand. They can make a white plastic box, slap a logo on it and it will sell. I am not saying that they don't have great design, just that they are only marginally better than designs from other manufacturers. But Apples are perceived to be much more stylish, because Apple is... "different".

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    36. Re:it's an empty case by eraserewind · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, you can download the Microsoft command line C++ compiler for free. There are plenty of open source IDE's of assorted quality out there.

      You can (or could, I don't know about now) also get a version of Visual studio with a crippled compiler free with some books. Then you just change the internal tool paths to point to the command line compiler.

    37. Re:it's an empty case by v1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The display model (hollow plastic box) they showed off was significantly shorter than the Mini. Looking at that, I don't see how you could possibly find room (vertically) to put a hard drive in the case. It clearly was meant to imply an optical drive with that slot in it, but at like 2.5" thick there is simply no room to stack a logic board (micro or otherwise) plus a 2.5" HD plus an optical drive (laptop variety) into that space.

      As the article said, this was just to "spur creativity" in the community. "Spend a few years and a few million and you might come up with something that looks almost this good".

      Also clearly apparent, the cooling in such a small case would simply not work for a useful speed of processor in the PC world. They'd have to put a "mobile" grade processor in the box which would really cramp the user's style.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    38. Re:it's an empty case by RedBear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      None of those cases come anywhere near the clean design of the Mac mini besides maybe the SilverStone LC09, which I couldn't find on Newegg but probably costs at least $150 (based on a similar SilverStone case I saw).

      I've seen the Hush PC before. Looks nice, and it's silent. Just for kicks I spec'ed out a Mini-ITX model with moderately similar components to the 1.25 G4 Mac mini. No extra memory, and I didn't even upgrade XP Home to Pro. Came out to about 970 Euros. That's for a 1.2GHz VIA processor. That's up from the base price of 769 Euros for something with a CD-ROM! Count me among the unimpressed.

      Honestly, the more people try to present alternatives to the Mac mini, the more impressive the Mac mini looks. It's truly amazing what Apple has crammed into that little box at that price level. Now if only they would put a little more effort into quality control...

  3. cobalt qube? by selfabuse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Get one off ebay, and stuff it w/ a mini or nano-itx board. A bit more work then just buying something from a manufacturer, but you've got more freedom in what you put in it, and you keep the small form factor and really cool lookin' case.

    1. Re:cobalt qube? by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2

      Get one off ebay, and stuff it w/ a mini or nano-itx board.

      Or you could keep the original hardware, and run Solaris, Linux, or BSD on it, eh? I just don't get this fascination with taking perfectly good computers and putting mini-ITX boards in them..

  4. Interesting. by hot_Karls_bad_cavern · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i was all like, yeah whatever, new small computer - horray. Then, i looked at this shot and now i kinda really want one :)

    ...so long as it can pull its weight doing the media junk in the house.

  5. Not "Upcoming"! by Some+guy+named+Chris · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the second paragraph of the article: " It's unlikely that Intel itself would build such a device."

    Then, the article clearly goes on to say that this is a empty plastic shell, designed merely to inspire Intel's partners, not an example of any upcoming Intel product. I guess that doesn't sound as exciting and inflamatory, though.

  6. I'm going to switch by SamSeaborn · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm a long-time PC user that's finally had enough. I'm switching to a Mac mini, but I'm waiting for the next hardware update (probably in August, I'm guessing?) and for Tiger to be released.

    Sam

    1. Re:I'm going to switch by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2, Informative

      good thinking maybe..... if nothing else waiting for 10.4 to come installed will save you $129-$149 (not sure what 10.4 will cost).

      though sometimes right after the new OS ships they will take existing stock of hardware and give you a boxed version of the OS for free. sometimes........

      10.4 will be shipping well before the Mini gets revised, unless some major software issues come up.

    2. Re:I'm going to switch by TLSPRWR · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you're a long time PC user, please make sure you spend some time doing real tasks on OS X before you consider switching. You'll save yourself a lot of time and money if you do.
      Here's my bias: I've used PCs since I was a young pup and have recently had to use some Macs for school work and presentations.
      Please note, the following is an opinion, based on personal experience. The usual Mac egotistic reply is not going to change my opinion, so please be insightful if you are going to reply. People always whine about their dislike of Windows, so don't flame me for a dislike of your prefered OS.
      Personally, I cannot stand the operating system. Unless you have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts memorized (-2 points for new users right there) and always have one hand on the keyboard, one on the mouse (please, no "where's the other hand" jokes), you lose a lot of efficiency. In Windows, everything's designed where it can pretty much be controlled by the mouse, with a need to sometimes use the keyboard for shortcuts or special functions, which I prefer. Keyboard shortcuts aren't bad, but I personally like being able to control from the mouse easily.
      The way OS X handles windows and programs is a lot different, and I find it uncomfortable. Everything is based off the "Finder" and.. I forget the name, but "Docking Station" is close enough. Docking Station is the closest you'll get to a task bar with a Quick Launch type thing taking up most of the space. The Finder is the closest you'll get to a start button. Growing up on PCs, this is awkward to switch to, especially since to use the Finder, you have to get back to the desktop (or use some hidden keyboard command, I dunno). Finding programs not on the desktop and not in the Quick launch part of the Docking Station, is slightly painful (akin having a shortcut to the "Program Files" folder in Windows to run all your programs).
      I love the software made by Apple. It's all pretty and can be efficient if you work with it a lot, but I just can't stand the OS. Apple used to be the industry leader, but nowadays PCs have caught up. There's no real reason to switch to a Mac unless you are really fed up with PC and want to try something different (which it sounds like you are).

      Again, please just make sure you really work with the OS before you switch. No sense in throwing $499 down on a machine you won't ever use. Again, this is all just my personal experience, and may not reflect your enjoyment of the OS. If I had grown up on Macintosh, perhaps my opinion would be different, but if you're not prepared to learn a completely different way of doing simple tasks then a Mac probably isn't right for you.

    3. Re:I'm going to switch by geoffspear · · Score: 3, Funny
      Translation:

      I'm too stupid to figure out how to use a Mac, therefore I don't think anyone else should switch.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    4. Re:I'm going to switch by amichalo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think that much of your issue with OS X is simply understand a new paradigm for using an OS.

      A few comments make me think you have missed the point:
      Finder is like "Explorer" for Windows - it allows you to navigate a file system, go in and out of folders, etc.
      "Docking Station" (the Dock) is NOT like the Start menu in windows and NOT like the task bar ar the bottom either. It is a place where you can put applications you often run, so they are easily accessed, as well as applications that are running, to easily switch between, as well as open or closed documents you may be working on and even file folders and finally, the trash can. That's why they call it the Dock, you can just "dock" things there.

      Another issue I think is confounding things is that to install an application in OS X, 9 times out of 10, you just copy one file from the CD to the hard drive. It can live in just about any directory and when you click it, it launches. This is WAY different than windows, but very nice because you don't end up with dozens of files everywhere for a single program (makes uninstalling clean too!) But I digress - you may find it helpful to drag your "Applications" folder to the dock (right side of the divider bar, near the trash can is where documents and folders go). When you want to launch an application, simply hold down your mouse click on that folder for about a second and the contents will pop up, allowing you to launch an application from there.

      As for the keyboard shortcut things, I am surprised how much you feel they are necessary. I don't believe, but admit I could be wrong, there is anything that cannot be done with just the mouse that can with a keyboard shortcut.

      I have two recommendations - if you are really worried about the way the OS works, go to a local Apple store or even CompUSA/other Apple retailer and ASK SOMEONE TO SHOW YOU AROUND IT. Yeah, it is a different experience, but I argue it would be easier to learn than Windows, had someone no experience with either OS. SECONDLY, there are great books at Amazon/etc for switching to OS X from XP. Here is just one.

      --
      I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    5. Re:I'm going to switch by JHromadka · · Score: 2, Informative
      The Finder is nothing like the Start button. It is like Windows Explorer. If you want something like a Start Button for your commonly used apps, create a folder somewhere (mine is called QuickLaunch) and then put aliases/shortcuts to your applications in there. You can even create subfolders if you like. Now drag your Quicklaunch folder to the right-side of the Dock and it will stay there. Now everytime you want to get to your apps, right-click that folder and up pops a list of your apps, just like the Start button in Windows.

      If you don't want to go through all that, you can always just click Finder and then click on the Applications icon in the sidebar to jump directly there. And when you feel you're ready to learn keyboard shortcuts, go in to the Mouse&Keyboard Preference pane and you will find a list of them (you can change them too).

      --
      "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    6. Re:I'm going to switch by dont_think_twice · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm too stupid to figure out how to use a Mac, therefore I don't think anyone else should switch.

      Translation:

      I'm a dick who insults the intelligence of anyone who "thinks different" than I do.

      I use linux, but I have seriously been considering buying a Mac for a while. At least, I was considering it until I actually tried using one. I used it for a whole summer, and learned to hate it. Nothing worked like I expected.

      I have no problems with Macs in general. I still might buy a MiniMac as a "family room" computer. But there is no way that I could use one as my personal computer. They are designed for a different type of computer user than me.

      So why do you insist that someone is a idiot because they don't like the OSX interface? Do you seriously believe that every intelligent person has the exact same view you do about it?

    7. Re:I'm going to switch by pherthyl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They spent THREE HOURS trying to figure out how to do a useradd

      Are you kidding? Your Linux/Windows gurus must be dumb as bricks. I don't use OS X much (basically just as a jukebox at work) and have never added a user before, but just did it now in about 15 seconds.

      System Preferences (its in the dock by default) - Accounts - Hit the + icon. DONE.

      I suggest you fire these "gurus" you speak of.

    8. Re:I'm going to switch by geoffspear · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If you expect a different OS to work exactly like the one you're most familiar with to the point that you actually believe you need to use the keyboard instead of the mouse for anything on a Mac, you're an idiot.

      Preferring one UI over the other has nothing to do with it. Assuming the different UI doesn't work because it's not identical to Windows shows that you're either unwilling or unable to learn anything new.

      Someone who's able to switch between Windows, Linux, and a Mac and use them all is not an idiot, even if he or she strongly prefers one over the others.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    9. Re:I'm going to switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a life-long Windows (since v. 1) user that switched to an iMac recently (Feb). I can tell you right now that I'm sold, and not going back to the PC!

      To me, your rant sounds like you were looking for an imitation of Windows on the Mac.

      The reason I like the Mac so much is because they did _not_ imitate Windows! Instead, they designed the OS from (almost) the ground and created something that was created with usability in mind, instead of creating something that need to be backwards compatible with MS-DOS.

      For the past four weeks, I haven't booted in Windows once at home, and I now find Windows a pain to use at work.

      My $0.02

    10. Re:I'm going to switch by Secret+Agent+99 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Was this before or after they spent 20 MINUTES copying a 20-megabyte file?

  7. Just an empty shell by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 3, Informative

    Intel has a habit of showing off empty shell concepts and hoping that some manufacturer will pick it up. It's highly likely that this was the case here - no new product yet, just a plastic case that looks kinda like a Mac Mini.

  8. Cool. by blobzorz · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's cool and all, but its just not a Mac -------- http://onticfusion.sytes.net/

  9. Still Misses The Point by MooseByte · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Intel can make whatever shaped/sized box they want, but it's still going to ship with Windows for Joe Consumer. A box that can get easily 0wned is what people are growing weary of. Mac Mini targets those folks as well as iPod users (not necessarily separate groups there). This knock-off once again misses the point.

    What makes this interesting is how well it runs Linux. Otherwise.... pfffft!

    1. Re:Still Misses The Point by to_kallon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A box that can get easily 0wned is what people are growing weary of
      certainly true. however, let us not forget that osx is not perfect either. nor, thou it saddens me to admit it, is linux. as marketshare shifts toward these from windows, which i sincerely hope it continues to do, they will also be targeted for all manner of exploits. the point of comparison is how well they deal with being targeted. i think it would be difficult to react in a worse way than microsoft.
      on a side note, i don't understand the point of showing off an empty box. given some cardboard, paint, and a small digital clock i could have made something that looks similar.
      this is not innovation!

      --


      The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
      -Oscar Wilde
    2. Re:Still Misses The Point by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Heh, I think you hit on the biggest linux security threat there is: People who believe Linux's security to be infallible and thus do nothing to protect their machine. I wonder what it will take to knock the complacency out of people.

    3. Re:Still Misses The Point by perkr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe, but don't you think users in general would appreciate a small quiet elegant PC instead of a huge ugly noisy beige box?

  10. Didn't people learn w/ the iMac? by hydroxy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They always seem to want to copy what Apple does... but they muck it up and end up going nowhere with it. I would think that they would have learned after everyone and their mother tried to copy the iMac with no success.

  11. the question becomes... by sailforsingapore · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why would anyone want a computer that could aptly be described as looking like a lunchbox?

  12. Uh... by NardofDoom · · Score: 4, Funny
    Thus far, the concept PC is just a piece of plastic, literally, although its design showed a clock display and optical drive in front, with ports such as USB, optical audio and FireWire in the back.

    Way to go there, Intel. Suprisingly, it's about as functional as any XP machine once it's been let onto the Internet(s).

    --
    You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
    1. Re:Uh... by fanblade · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seriously though, I think the point to be found here is that any novel/cool idea had by Apple hardly lasts a month before somebody in the PC market copies the idea. Not that it's illegal or unexpected or even necessarily wrong. IMO, we owe it to Apple to remember that they were there first.

  13. pathetic attempt by PureCreditor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Intel is truly the industrial leader (true)and innovator (questionable), then they should come up with a radically different concept PC to compete with Mac mini, and yet can target the same audience. Having a carbon-copy of Mac mini is the same as saying :

    their design is superior, the only thing special about ours....we use a x86 cpu!!

    Reminds me of Creative Zen looking awfully similar to the iPod mini, but much uglier colors.

    1. Re:pathetic attempt by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      look.. mac mini is not the first small computer out there. cappucino was released.. when? back in 1999? sheesh.

      reminds of mac heads turning a blind eye to whats happening in the world of computing outside of apple untill apple comes out with something.

      (i got an ibook here though, but shit, mac mini isn't exactly the groundbreaker)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:pathetic attempt by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's silly. You act as if Apple did some real groundbreaking work for mass marketing the next logical step (which has already existed.)

      Two months ago, you had your choice of hundreds of different mini itx systems. Now everybody thinks the Mac Mini is a new idea, and that anybody making a small computer is a copycat.

      I see the same thing happen when talking about the iPod as well. A hard drive in a portable music player was an evolutionary idea (notice the E at the beginning), and the logical next step. Hard drive players existed before first gen iPods shipped, but Apple's image as being different and hip advertised their product as if it was the only hard drive mp3 player you could buy.

      I like Apple products, and they make quality hardware, but the examples you used were not revolutionary. They were next step, no surprises, and not even Apple's idea.

      --

      Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
    3. Re:pathetic attempt by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Mini wasn't even the first PowerPC machine in that small a form factor. The BriQ is a PowerPC system that is small enough to fit in a 5 1/4" drive bay. Only 800MHz, but still quite an interesting system.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:pathetic attempt by mrtrumbe · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Compare for yourself: the cappuccino and the Mac Mini.

      Yes, the cappuccino is small, but its design is bulky and clumsy compared to the Mini. As Apple has consistently proved, its not all about size and speed. Design, user experience and beauty are important, too.

      Now look at the pics of Intel's concept mini-PC from the original article--forgetting for a second that it doesn't even exist yet. (Its not even a prototype, just a case with some lights on it.) Now try to tell me Intel isn't following Apple's lead in terms of design.

      Look past the size and see the form.

      Taft

    5. Re:pathetic attempt by starunj · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Creative Zen may be an iPod mini rip off, but I think the interface is better on the Zen.

      Say you have a long list of songs, then to get to the bottom of it rather than rotate your thumb
      in a circular fashion (many times over), isnt it simpler to rest it on the down arrow on the Zen?

    6. Re:pathetic attempt by mrtrumbe · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I've already posted a comment very similar to this, but here goes anyway...

      Look past the components and look at the design. You are absolutely right that Apple didn't invent the idea of a hard-drive in a portable music player. But you are absolutely wrong if you think the iPod wasn't revolutionary. Look at the form of the iPod. Look at how small, sleek and pretty it is. Now consider its user interface. Take in the simplicity of its menu system, its scrollwheel and button layout and overall ease of use. Now consider how easily and effectively it interfaces with iTunes, how trivial it is to create playlists and fille your iPod with music.

      Now compare that experience (that of the revision 1 iPod) with the hard drive players available at the time. Is there a difference? Is that difference major? I think so.

      I've given an iPod to people utterly unfamiliar with gadgetry of any kind and they were up and using the iPod in under a minute (after they got over how cool it looked). THAT is the Apple difference and why they sell products. They lead in a way that is foreign to many PC users: design.

      Taft

    7. Re:pathetic attempt by Ed_Moyse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well it's a question of degree isn't it? If (for the sake of argument) Apple managed to make portable music players far far more attractive to the average joe, and transformed a small market into a collosal market, then you could describe that as a revolution, no?

      Maybe they didn't do much different technically but if the effect they had was quadrupling (or more - no idea, I'm just arguing principles here) a market, then surely that's a revolution of some kind?

    8. Re:pathetic attempt by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having held a Zen and an Ipod and used both I'd say the zen is the superior machine in every way.

    9. Re:pathetic attempt by slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've given an iPod to people utterly unfamiliar with gadgetry of any kind and they were up and using the iPod in under a minute (after they got over how cool it looked). THAT is the Apple difference and why they sell products.

      Really?

      I watched an newbie explore an iPod Mini only last week. His first question was "how do I turn it off?" (and was incredulous at the two answers: "hold down play", and "you don't need to"). Then I challenged him to find the volume control, which he was unable to do.

      (Admittedly the volume control challenge is a bit of a cheat: the volume control is hardest to find when you're actually looking for it, because when you're searching for it you're continually pressing buttons. If you stop pushing buttons for a couple of seconds, the scroll wheel turns into a volume wheel.)

  14. Re:What Benifit? by powermung · · Score: 2, Funny
    From the article:

    "Thus far, the concept PC is just a piece of plastic, literally, although its design showed a clock display and optical drive in front, with ports such as USB, optical audio and FireWire in the back."

    Apparently the CPU, motherboard, and all the other stuff that comprises a computer.
  15. Re:What Benifit? by Claire-plus-plus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm no Mac bigot. In fact I don't care what OS people use but I must say that Macs do have benefits over PCs, ease of use and lack of spyware for a start. However, PCs have benefits over macs as well. And SHOCK HORROR macs and pcs have advantages over linux while linux has advantages over both.

    My favorite computer is my PS2 and my second favorite is my Cheap-n-crappy DVD player.

    --
    99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
  16. Re:What Benifit? by lucabrasi999 · · Score: 2
    Not having any good software for their platform

    Define "good software". Are you referring to business and graphic design software? Or, are you just worried about the most recent FPS?

  17. Can you say "lawsuit"? by Caspian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That case looks JUST like a Mac Mini. Almost identical. It reminds me of the iMac knockoffs (I'm talking about the original iMacs which came in one colour (Bondi blue) and looked vaguely like a gumdrop) that came out shortly after the launch of that product.

    --
    With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
  18. Re:What Benifit? by MPHellwig · · Score: 2

    No good software? You mean those overpriced games? Anything else is in one way or another availible for the mac, you might need VirtualPC though.
    Being overpriced? How in * name can you call the mini overprized? If you want comparible performance with a commercial OS you will at least pay the same if not more.
    The benefit of a mac is that most things work the way it supposed to do instead of not working or working but not the way it supposed to.

    But anyway it's a nice wrapped up troll, you fooled me.

  19. I still don't understand... by Gruneun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why does this or the Mac Mini qualify as news?

    Mini-ITX boards and their tiny cases have been around for years. Nano-ITX, while relatively new, was announced many months before the Mac Mini or this empty box from Intel.

    Getting excited because certain manufacturers suddenly uses an existing technology does nothing more than show bias toward a company. At the very least, the post could fake some credibility by talking about trends towards smaller computers.

    1. Re:I still don't understand... by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because the Mac mini shipped. It's why Doom 3 shipping is news, while the milestone of Duke Nukem Forever is not.

      Mini ITX boards have been around for years; Mac minis are 1/3 the volume and 1/2 the size. Nano ITX has been announced many months before the Mac mini, but hasn't shipped yet, while the mini has. Even still, when someone took a prototype nano-itx board and tried to fit it into a Mac mini, it was discovered it didn't fit; they hat to saw down the heatsink AND they had to remove the optical drive, so the Mac mini is STILL smaller than nano-itx.

      There's nothing revolutionary about the mini, other than it's size AND price; the only similar PC is the Cappuccino PCs, which are slightly smaller, but nearly twice as expensive. Even Shuttle based boxes, which can hold almost 3 Mac minis inside them, cost more.

    2. Re:I still don't understand... by cowscows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The mac mini qualifies as news less for its form factor and more for its price. An actual Apple computer for $500? Scandalous. It's certainly applicable to slashdot, where for years people have been talking about how they're fascinated by OSX, they respect the general quality of Apple's hardware, they just couldn't justify the high prices for a machine to play around on.

      All of a sudden, an entry level Mac is now truly entry level on price. And a lot of people have said that price was the biggest thing that PC's had over Macs.

      The empty box from intel is interesting just because it's so obviously inspired (copied) from Apple. It really looks like they just painted over the apple logo, put a couple lines across it, and glued a little digital clock to it. It's amusing for the same reason that the early imac knockoffs were. There's hundreds of ways to make an all-in-one machine, and using curvy, translucent, brightly colored plastic isn't the most obvious one. I'm all for sharing and the progression of knowledge, but there's a difference between building upon what came before, and just throwing out a me-too product.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:I still don't understand... by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Nano-ITX, while relatively new, was announced many months before the Mac Mini or this empty box from Intel.


      Yep, it was "announced", but it's still not available! have you seen one for sale? Anywhere? Not to mention that their performance sucks when compared to Mac Mini. And their price is more or less the same as the Mini. And you can't run OS X on one ;). I'm no Mac-fanboy, but I would like to try out OS X. The Mini suits me perfectly. While I could almost get the same size with Mini-ITX, with comparable price (but not the performance), I couldn't run OS X on it.

      The Mini is interesting and newsworthy because it does the same thing Mini-ITX and the like do, only better. And because it's the cheapest Mac there is.
      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  20. Faster Processor by COMON$ · · Score: 2, Informative
    Define Faster Processor.

    http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html

    I always love to hear from people who equate MHz with speed and and power.

    --
    CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  21. only if Intel says it's okay... by qwertphobia · · Score: 5, Funny

    Let me see if I have this right...

    Apple creates something beautiful again, and everybody says "Wow, it's perfect, but it's an Apple".

    Then within a few months {"Intel", "Dell", "Microsoft", "Compaq"} tells the rest of the world "it's alright, go ahead and start copying Apple".

    So everybody does, and tells {"Intel", "Dell", "Microsoft", "Compaq"} how great they are.

    again.

    --
    Never ask for directions from a two-headed tourist! -Big Bird
  22. But where's all the software goodness? by KajiCo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole poing of the Mac Mini is that it's a small affordable system that comes preinstalled with; an OS, a Photo Editor, Movie Editor, Music Player, DVD/VCD designer, and Music Composition software. Additionally most Macs comes pre-installed with Apple Works and World Book Encyclopedia.

    Not to mention the splendor of no Adware or a major risk of viruses.

    1. Re:But where's all the software goodness? by LoudMusic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The whole poing of the Mac Mini is that it's a small affordable system that comes preinstalled with; an OS, a Photo Editor, Movie Editor, Music Player, DVD/VCD designer, and Music Composition software. Additionally most Macs comes pre-installed with Apple Works and World Book Encyclopedia.

      Not to mention the splendor of no Adware or a major risk of viruses.


      I think the whole point of the Mac Mini is to offer a cheap Mac to pursuade users to move from Windows / Intel to Macintosh / Apple.. But I'll argue against what you've said as if it were more accurate.

      Windows XP comes with a photo editor (Microsoft Photo Editor), movie editor (Movie Maker), and music player (Windows Media Player). I honestly don't know if Movie Maker does DVD authoring and I'm pretty sure there arn't any music composition apps included.

      Now look at the target market. People who want cheap ass computers. Are they even going to be doing any kind of content creation? If so they probably need a better computer anyway. The people buying these caliber computers are going to surf the web, send email, and play music.

      Adware / spyware / viruses. Fair enough. But none of my computers have had any of that installed on them for the past six years. And I've seen Macs degrade into a metal whirring box because of software that the user [i]wanted[/i] installed.

      I think the Mac mini is pretty cool. I think OS X is pretty cool. But I think Apple has more refinement to do, which they are constantly on the chase. However, Intel and Microsoft, if they were to set their minds to it, could crank out one hell of a little box. Look at the Dell Axim or the other (HP, Toshiba) hand held computers. Barely larger than a cell phone and more computing power than something from just five years ago. They just need to [i]get it right[/i] instead of doing it half assed (like they useually do ...).

      --
      No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
  23. Re:Wow, Deja Vu by SamSeaborn · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If it wasn't for companies like Apple, there would be NO innovation in the computing world.

    There's a world of original ideas in the universe, but the PC world repeatedly chooses to steal Apple's designs.

    The only reason there's PC cases in colors other than beige is because Apple created the iMac. The only reason there's a Windows "XP" is because there was a Mac OS "X". The only reason you can import and organize music with Windows Media Player is because Apple created iTunes. The only reason there's a Windows Movie Maker is because Apple created iMovie. The only reason there's slim lightweight Pentium M class laptops is because Apple created the PowerBook. And now, the only reason Intel is floating this mini PC is because Apple created the Mac mini.

    Apple takes all the creative risks. Thank goodness for the innovations of companies like Apple, Google, and those Linux rebels. Or we'd all be using big beige boxes and Windows 95. (Heck! There wouldn't even be a Windows 95 if it wasn't for OS/2 and Geoworks!)

    Sam

  24. Re:What Benifit? by falcon5768 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Its so flamebait but Im going to bite and not mod it down more.

    Um last I checked a PC of equal capabilitys with the software that Apple bundles was found to be 700 dollars, well over the asking price of a Mac mini and even a shuttle PC cant come close to the size of it (or the price since the smaller form stuff is more money)

    Likewise in a typical wintel fashon you completely glossed over OS X relitivly bug free and virus free workspace. Likewise just about everyone forgets that more software doesnt mean more quality. Everyone bitches that macs dont have any software when the REAL truth is

    Macs dont have any games

    Well hate to break it to you but I use Vectorworks and Office at work, and I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I had the time to play counterstrike.

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  25. Intel Repairs Segmentation Fault ? by ehack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So far, Intel has enforced market segmentation: You could get a laptop *or* a space-heater. This model is an indication that laptop processors will now be allowed to trickle into the general market. Ipod sized servers and child-pizza sized desktop comps are well within Intel's ability - just look at the size of the "computer" in your laptop.

    Microsoft will doubtless resist the move: if it's not a "PC" then clients might not want "Windows", that clunky 19th century command center for a steam-powered computing box. Dell etc will also resist, because clients might get into the nasty habit of upgrading their CPUs only; even worse, some might dump laptops in favor of just taking their company "mini desktop" home in the backpack.

    Summary - the Mac mini has broken Apple's hi-price policy, but it has also broken many of the unwritten laws of the PC cartel. Clearly, a form factor who's time has come !

    --
    This is not a signature.
  26. It's the operating system, stupid! by kajoob · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was a Dos/Windows (then to some extent Linux) user my entire life. I now am the proud owner of a Mac Mini. I haven't booted into windows once since I got it. I got sick of all the viruses/spyware/malware in windows and the fact that , althought windows gets the job done, it's not enjoyable to use.

    I would have NEVER bought a mac had they not released the mini because I was not about to pay a premium for hardware when I don't do any graphic design work or play many games. So all these companies that are trying to release a Mac Mini killer are barking up the wrong tree when they just release a traditional pc with a small footprint. It's the operating system, stupid! I don't have an answer for them because I just don't think linux is ready for prime time yet, but I am evidence that people are ready for an alternative, but it has nothing to do with the fact that our computers are too big now. If apple had released a $499 machine that was the size of a G5 tower, I would have bought that as well.

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
  27. So, it's the... by 10Ghz · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...Mini Me Too?

    --
    Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
  28. Microsoft + DRM integration talked about as well! by SuperficialRhyme · · Score: 5, Informative
    Why is no one talking about this part of the article:

    At the same time that Intel is looking to push computermakers on the design front, it is also working to improve the quality of such devices. It is also working to ensure that content can be secured to the satisfaction of Hollywood studios, which will decide whether or not to make their movies available on such machines.

    MacDonald brought Microsoft eHome executive Joe Belfiore on stage to talk about collaborations between the two companies. He spoke about an effort to make sure Microsoft's digital-rights management technology is compatible with Intel's push for standards to enable content to move among home devices easily while still being protected from widespread distribution.

    A Disney executive also spoke about the potential for bringing its Moviebeam service to PCs. The service, which offers more than 100 movies on demand, currently works only with set-top boxes.


    That seems to be more disturbing than Intel trying to get manufacturers to compete with a mini-esque PC.
  29. Inspiration and Innovation by standards · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sadly, it does seem to me that Apple is the only one out there that innovates and inspires.

    At one time, Compaq, Dell, and even Microsoft could be expected to innovate. Just look at the original Armada. Visual Basic 3.0. the Pre-inspiron laptops. Ya, they weren't the best products ever, but they were very innovative, industry-changing ideas at the time.

    Now they're just a slow evolution of an old idea. For people who don't like the press that Apple gets, and would like to see others garner some press time - well, what the hell has ANYONE in the industry done in the past 5 years?

    Intel does not need to inspire the industry with a Mac clone. The industry has seen it - and is merely betting that people won't switch.

    That's a good bet, but it shows me how much the PC industry has totally lost it's spark of innovation, despite loads of inspiration from a non-competitor.

  30. Re:Fabulous by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, a hunk of plastic has more OS flexibility than a PowerPC processor. Yeah, really flexible.

    It's only functionality is a clock. That's all it can do. There's no CPU, no motherboard, nothing. It's a mockup of a PC designed to compete with the Mac mini.

  31. What's funny about this... by artemis67 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is that the maketing position for the Mac Mini is to convert Windows iPod users who are sold on the Apple brand but think even the iMacs are too expensive.

    Who, exactly, is the target market for the x86 Mini? PC's are already dirt cheap, and we know that shrinking down the form factor like that will only raise the price over existing desktop PC's. They aren't going to convert Mac users, because Mac users a) don't buy on price alone, and b) already have a Mac option in that category, so they will buy the Mac Mini.

    Logically, for Intel to compete against the Mac Mini, they need to develop an iPod killer, not another desktop system.

  32. Re:Jeebus by LarsWestergren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell is happening to the PC industry? It used to be all about making better faster machines with more features and now the trend is to make smaller machines with less features?????

    What happened was that people got fed up with big ugly boxes that used a lot of power to make a lot of noise and heat. Especially since few people apart from gamers need the processing power of new machines. Being small, unobtrusive, less energy hungry, cool and quiet are also features you know, stuff that a lot of people are obviously willing to pay for. Hardly marketing spin.

    --

    Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

  33. Re:Jeebus by Dirk+Pitt · · Score: 4, Insightful
    used to be all about making better faster machines with more features

    Maybe it's shifting towards adequetly powered machines with features that actually work all of the time.

    computer is a tool, not a toy, when did we see a shift from functionality to marketing spin?

    As soon as Joe Consumer wanted one in the living room instead of just the home office. Why is this a bad thing? Miniaturization will just increase the pervasiveness of computer hardware in general. There *needs* to be a paradigm shift in the PC industry. These things need to go from tempremental monsters that need more attention than my two year old, to appliances on par with my Tivo. To an extent, Mac is successfully in this transition state already. (no - I'm no fanboy, don't even own one, but I think they're well made)

  34. Re:Fabulous by justforaday · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because we all know that the only OS a PowerPC can run is OSX...*rolls eyes*

    --
    I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  35. Mac equivalent of the Cobalt Qube by Greg+Larkin · · Score: 2

    Have a look at the Mac G4 Cube here:
    http://www.cubeowner.com/photopost/showphoto.php/p hoto/674/sort/2/cat/501/page/1

    If you stuff an upgrade card into one of these, you'll have a neat looking machine with plenty of power. This site is the place to go to learn about about the G4 Cube.

    --

    SourceHosting.net, LLC
    Ready. Set. Code.
    http://www.sourcehosting.net/
  36. The Aztec by justforaday · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is exactly the same as when Intel unveiled the Aztec prototypes right after the introduction of the original iMac...

    --
    I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  37. Not Mini Knockoff...That Was Intel's New Heatsink! by Zemplar · · Score: 4, Funny

    That was NOT Intels new "mini" computer, only the new heatsink required for the next generation of Intel processors.

  38. Intersting by SWTP_OS9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1) Imitation the sencerest form of flattery.

    2) Its not the power brick, powering this unit. But the cooling tower you also need to hang off of it! With the earplugs included in the box!

    3) Intel been doing this "odd shape case thing" for years and no one has coppied them yet. Remember the Aztec pyrimid? Uggly shape and colors.

    4) But Microsoft want to go to the "Teddybear" form factor case!
    http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=5459 78&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312/

    5) The "low heat" and also "low power" micro/Pico-ITX form factor MB are not made by Intel but are being driven by VIA CPU's and chipset!

    6) And is this from the same Intel that was hyping so much bleeding edge stuff, over the last few years. That after X months usually said we can't do it?

  39. So what else is new? by rjung2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Has the PC industry really gotten that bad so that they don't do anything but copy Apple?

    As any Apple-watcher will tell you, this has been SOP with the Wintel world for decades now.

    The only thing dumber than the folks surprised at Intel's shameless copycat effort are the ones who mistake that empty plastic box for a fully-functional, shipping, ready-to-go-on-your-desk computer.

  40. Newsflash: by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 2, Funny

    Newsflash: Intel launches empty grey plastic box! Film at eleven.

  41. Re:Jeebus by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "A computer is a tool, not a toy, when did we see a shift from functionality to marketing spin?"

    Actually this is a shift to functionality. The Mac Mini comes with everything the average person needs. FireWire for dumping video and hooking up your iPod. Ethernet for networking. A good but not great video card. USB for hooking up mice, keyboards, scanners, memory drives and game controllers. You can add an airport to the Mini as an option. The only thing I see missing from the Mac Mini is a video in.
    As a tool these new computers are complete and simple. They are more functional for most people.
    You see I have been in computers a long time. I can remeber when you had many players in the market each one very different. Back in the 8 bit days you had Commodore. Atari, Tandy, Ti, Apple, and Sinclair. Each had it's own OS if you want to call it an OS. You had many different types of CPUs z80, 6502, 6809, and the TI chip. Even fast forward to the late 80s and you had Amiga, Atari ST, and Mac pushing to innovate. The PC you have now SUCKED compared to the Amiga, Atari ST, and Mac. The PC only won because of marketing spin. Look at a PC from 85 and look at the Amiga. The Amiga was cheaper, had better graphics, stereo sound, would multi task, could have a hard drive partition bigger then 33 megs and access more than 640k of ram with out doing all sorts of strangeness. A pc at the time was a 286 running at maybe 16 mhz and ran DOS 3.3, maybe windows 1 but no one really used that. The idea that PC industry has gone from technically driven to marketing drive just now is very very funny. It has been all marketing for the last 20+years.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  42. Re:flamebait by northcat · · Score: 2

    Clue train: Windows != x86/PC. We have Linux (which works on Macs too).

  43. YDL Briq by tubbtubb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Mac Mini's ridiculously small case design is only possible because of the low power consumption of the PPC74xx/G4.
    Even companies other than Apple have done similar things with the G4 a loong time ago, does anyone here remember the YellowDog Linux Briq
    This is not just an x86 issue, even Apple will have a hard time putting a G5 in it's current Mac Mini Case.
    Its the result of deeply pipelined processor designs. More latches, more stuff to clock, more power consumption and heat dissapation.
    Ah, the good old days of 4 stage processors.
    Fetch, decode, execute, commit/writeback. That was it.

    1. Re:YDL Briq by tubbtubb · · Score: 2, Informative

      That having been said, if PC manufacturers can shove a desktop P4 or Athlon64 in a laptop, they could also shove it into a approximately Mini-sized computer.

      True, but can they do it and still have decent specs, very little fan noise and sell it for $500?

      If they put P4s in laptops then they must be able to put them in network equipment, military hardware, embedded applications, etc? Why aren't x86 desktop processors more popular in those applications?
      Also, you make a good point about the utility of the form factor. One could make arguments about desk or TV console real estate, but its really just the 'cuteness' that has appeal to so many people.
      It may not be a rational desire, but I bet Apple will sell a ton of them.

  44. vprMatrix by carambola5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Check out vprMatrix. These x86 laptops are fairly decent in quality (my ~3 year old laptop still works great), and they're designed by F. A. Porsche GmbH. The thing has style.

    --
    IWARS.
    People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
  45. Re:Wow, Deja Vu by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only reason there's PC cases in colors other than beige is because Apple created the iMac.

    Sorry, I was buying non beige PC cases way back in 1996.

    The only reason there's a Windows "XP" is because there was a Mac OS "X".

    If thats true, what about the AthlonXP?

    The only reason you can import and organize music with Windows Media Player is because Apple created iTunes.

    You do realise iTunes origionally started out as a third party player that Apple bought?

    The only reason there's a Windows Movie Maker is because Apple created iMovie.

    And MS couldnt have gotten the idea from the hundreds of other Movie creation software packages out there? And the fact that firewire capable home movie cameras were becoming highly popular, so something in the end was bound to happen?

    The only reason there's slim lightweight Pentium M class laptops is because Apple created the PowerBook.

    Now that really is just fanboiism. Thin and lightweight laptops have been available for years - well before the PentiumM, and as long as, if not longer than, thin Powerbooks. I recall owning a thin and lightweight Sony Vaio back in 1998 - based on a PII chip!

    And now, the only reason Intel is floating this mini PC is because Apple created the Mac mini.

    Intel have floated such concept devices beforehand - and dont even THINK that Apple created the mini PC market - as many have pointed out, see the Cappachino PC - hell, even Mini ITX systems.

    I own two Macs myself - a Mac Mini and an Ibook, so Im in no way anti Apple. But everything you just said is nothing but blatant fanboiism pure and simple. Apple is NOT the be all end all of computing - and surprisingly enough it doesnt innovate as much as you would like to think.

  46. Huh? A Prescott would melt any box that size. by guidryp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A plastic box the size of the Mini to inspire partners. Heck it is not even a prototype, just a plastic mock up.

    Intel would be a lot more inspirational if they showed up with a circuit board prototype for a small form factor that comes in with a reasonable dollar cost and heat envelope.

    A hunk of plastic when intel doesn't really offer a solution that fits in the plastic seems kind of pointless. Does intel offer any explanation of What processor/chipset would power their partners? A prescot would melt anything that size unless that was the heatsink.

    Only really leaves Dothan solutions, which intel doesn't really sanction or price for desktop usage.

    The only PC form factors close to this are micro-itx (non intel but shipping/working) and nano-itx (also non intel and maybe non shipping).

    Maybe Intel is inspiring it's partners to think about using Via Epia solutions.

  47. How much money for design? by jfengel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How much does design cost? Pulling a few numbers out of my ass, let's say that this took a team of 20 people to design, test, fabricate, etc. this design. Let's say it took them a year, at $100k. (Engineers make more, secretaries make less). That's two million bucks.

    According to some news sources, Apple plans to sell around a million of the things. The cost of the design comes out to two bucks a unit.

    Supposing I'm off by an order of magnitude, we're still talking about $20 per unit paid to the designers. So I really don't think that it's the design driving the price of the units.

    I think that the price of Apple computers is generally driven by basic economics: how much are people willing to pay for them? If that number is greater than the cost to manufacture (including the $2 to $20 for the fancy design), then they do it; otherwise, they don't. The manufacturing cost only sets a lower limit on the price, but it doesn't set it.

    People are willing to pay more for Apples, because they like the design and reliability. Some of that comes from spending more on designers; some comes from more expensive components (Apple for years insisted on using pricey SCSI before finally joining the rest of the world in IDE, for example).

    A lot of it comes from the price of alternatives; Apple almost certainly looks at the price of a Dell marketed to the same audience and adds 20% or so. People are willing to pay a premium because they're getting a better piece of equipment. Apple has a tendency to tell people that they want a better computer than the one Dell is marketing to them.

    Dell will happily sell you the cheapest machine they think you'll buy; Apple would rather sell you a computer that would make you happy. That gives them only a portion of the market, but it's a very cheerful market segment.

    Design is the reason they can charge more, but it's not to pay the designers. Designers are cheap compared to the rest of the process. There might be some room for a competitor to Dell to arise with the same philosophy in the Wintel platform, but they'll be stuck with the same small market share Apple gets from seeking the high end, and they'll still be stuck with Windows as the OS, which will limit how much users like the product no matter how spiffy the physical design.

    1. Re:How much money for design? by emilymildew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're right, I was trying to make the argument as simplistic as possible by saying that it was to pay the designers.

      Obviously I failed.

    2. Re:How much money for design? by lpret · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just the cost of design, it's the materials used. Dell used run-of-the-mill plastic that is ubiquitous and easy to get a hold of while Apple uses metals and specific fans, etc. This all comes together to make it a very different price.

      --
      This is my digital signature. 10011011001
  48. Refinement? by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every product could use a little more refinement. But before you say the Mac Mini needs refinement, I challenge you to try out. Get it in the original box, open it up, and try it out. It's a very smooth package.

    Compare iMovie to MS Movie Maker and iPhoto to MS Photo Editor and you'll see that Apple has already done a lot of this "refinement" you speak of.

    Personally I love the Mac Mini, but I know it's not for me. What I really want is a single processor G5 cube with graphics on an AGP or PCI-E card. I'd pay $900 - $1200 for it.

  49. Help me undestand this by NAACPsupporter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In our church, a busines donated fairly new G4 Apple computers. Some were still in the boxes, unopened. They were running the new OSX. I was very eager to set them up. However, from the very beginning they all seemed slow. Everyone complained that the browser would take a long time to open. Initially I thought the ethernet interface was throttled down, but then others said opening office applications was a lot slower than what they were used to with the Windows XP machines. We still have the apple computers, but only kids seem to use them for educational programs that we also received as a donation from another business. Why would apple computers be so much slower than PC computers? I understand there is some heated arguments over this, but I am really looking for an answer. Do you think I need to update to the latest version of OS X?

  50. Re:Wait until someone trys to market one... by toddestan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As if the all-in-one iMac form factor computer was something that Apple invented. I distinctly remember Compaq Prolinea (sp?) 486 all-in-one computers, which crammed a CD-Rom, Floppy(!), and all the other needed parts into an oversized 14"-15" monitor. Picture here.

    Likewise, a computer the size of a Mac Mini is hardly original - people have imagined stuff like that for years. Apple is just the first company to pull it off on such a large scale.

  51. Have you compared the mini to the shuttle? by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 2

    The main difference in the Mini compared to other small form factors is that the took the tactic of pulling the power supply out into an AC adapter and they don't have slots for PCI cards. This means the mini is about 1/3 the height of of even a shuttle.

    So, yeah, when Intel announces that they are pulling the power supply and removing the PCI slots, and puts it in a chrome box about the size of a CD drive - they're ripping off Apple's design.

  52. Attack of the Clones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    (Note: I took the idea for the "Subject" field from the second Star Wars Movie).

    Yes we all know that there is a big problem with cloning out there in the world: Cloning sheep, cloning computers, cloning other animals, maybe cloning people, cloning movies, cloning characters in movies, and don't forget cloning subprocessors, whatever that might mean (I will leave it up for you to decide).

    But let us look at the benefits of copying!

    -It is inexpensive (relative to paying someone with a new idea).
    -It is enjoyable to use a copy machine.
    -Kinko's is open past midnight where I live, which can be very convenient if I am up late.
    -Sometimes it is nice to have a copy of something (like a worksheet) you can "give" to other people
    -It was used on Star Trek to great effect (Think TRIBBLES!)

    Okay, I am being cheap bringing up tribbles because they weren't really cloned and they were very adorable. But it is not so bad to copy or clone something if it is good and it happens all the time. It makes things that are expensive become less expensive so more people get good things. And what is good for the goose is often good for the gander! HA HA HA! Just make sure they are wearing a friendly smile!!!

    1. Re:Attack of the Clones by Jeff+Benjamin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (Note: I took the idea for the "Subject" field from the second Star Wars Movie).
      This is slashdot, you need not inform us of the source of star wars quotes...

    2. Re:Attack of the Clones by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Funny

      Slashdot this is. Source of star wars quotes inform us you need not...

  53. Microsoft has a head start by computechnica · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Microsoft installed a full version of Win2K on the X-box and installed several standard USB ports and a VGA plug, and sold them at cost($300?), they could flood the market. As long as it still played X-box games just think of the multimedia possibilities.

  54. Salaries by simpl3x · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ives likely makes more like three to five hundred thousand a year. He drives a Bentley...

    But custom as opposed to commodity parts cost quite a bit of coin. Of course, not the amount that would make up for a large cost diference, perhaps fifty bucks per. I remember going to the plant that produced the NeXT cube and well as Linn tonearms, and the mold was pretty amazing. The final piece also required custom finishing, as molds have seams, and Steve wanted a seamless design. The stuff is more costly than you think. Which is exactly why so few companies invest in the processes, people, and long term commitments to producing excellent design.

  55. why so negative? by jsailor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sure I'll regret voicing this, but I'm curious why there's such a strong reaction from such a pro-Linux community. Wouldn't this enable you to create a myriad of products, gadgets, etc. that ran Linux, looked more elegant, and carried a much lower price point than custom system builds? It seems like a boon to the Linux hacking community.

  56. cheap PC hardware isn't the point by passion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Getting another cheap piece of commodity PC hardware out into the markey isn't the point. The point is that this is a small, cheap multi-media piece of hardware.

    FTA: Intel on Wednesday showed off its living room PC of the future--and it looks a lot like the Mac Mini.

    This can easily play DVDs, mp3s, record TV (think tivo or myth for that matter). How long until either Apple releases the software for running your own Tivo, or importing TV directly into iMovie. This is meant to be the digital jukebox that you use when you're not "working", but instead enjoying life.

    --
    - passion
  57. Re:Wait until someone trys to market one... by rxmd · · Score: 2, Informative
    As if the all-in-one iMac form factor computer was something that Apple invented.
    My Macintosh SE/30 says they did, and its ancestors agree, starting from the original Mac 128k. Well, maybe Apple didn't invent the form factor entirely, but they definitely were the first to deploy it on a large scale.
    I distinctly remember Compaq Prolinea (sp?) 486 all-in-one computers, which crammed a CD-Rom, Floppy(!), and all the other needed parts into an oversized 14"-15" monitor.
    Yes. This form factor was rather popular at the time. I don't know when the Prolineas hit the market, but the Macintosh Performa 520 appeared in 1993.
    --
    As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
  58. apple and others by zpok · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The thing that irks me is that however wonderful the Apple Mini is, Intel is also doing a concept design of something that has been done on the PC side of things already.

    As if someone would proudly show a concept car of a new Mini or Smart, almost ten years after the fact...

    This lack of imagination is almost insulting to PC brands that try to do entertainment designs or small form factors. I'm generally totally unimpressed by PC design, but one has to acknowledge the fact that there is already enough on the market to surpass Intel's revolutionary concept.

    Never mind Apple, I don't think Intel can do anything design-wise to insult them. Apple's actual products are way above and beyond these concepts.

    --
    I think, therefore I am...I think.
  59. miniMac was the copy by MDMurphy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's what Nanode must have thought when they first saw the new Mac.
    http://www.mini-itx.com/news/nanode/ These pics, based on a box using a nano-ITX board are from a year ago.

    Yes, they aren't out yet. There may ultimately be critisisms of it's size, features, what not. But with the specs and pics announced 9 months before the Mac Mini, you can't call it the copy

  60. Okay. by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 2, Informative

    You have to be careful - the "Macs are slow" flame war has a long history.

    But, a lot of people have complained about the speed of the OS X Finder compared to Windows Explorer. Generally the complaint is what you've mentioned - slow app loading speeds, rather than slow performance once they're loaded.

    10.3 should help a lot with that. Another trick is that if these machines really are used rather than new-in-box they might need to be "optimized". Check sites like MacOSXHints for references to "update_prebinding".

    Also, look for a tool called "MacJanitor" which can help clean up the grunge on older systems.

  61. Re:Already done... by pressman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, Apple didn't copy XEROX PARC's research at all. They flat out used it as it and improved upon it. XEROX didn't see a use for either mouse or GUI technology, so they gave Apple permission to use it.

    --
    Pooty tweet
  62. Innovation? by DeVilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've seen a number of post blasting Intel for constantly ripping off Apple's innovative ideas. I guess I'd like to know, how is making a gumball of a computer that matches your eyes and complements your shoes innovation? I'm not say Intel is any less of a ripoff artist, just that is sounds more like fashion than innovation to me.

    1. Re:Innovation? by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why are we talking about the original iMac, again?

      Let me list the things they've done SINCE, as innovations:

      Software, first
      iMovie: Turning Joe Everyman into their own director and producer.
      iDVD: Turning Joe Everyman into their own DVD factory
      iTunes: For introducing to the world the concepts of database driven music libraries
      GarageBand: Turning Joe Everyman into their own digital band

      Hardware, next
      iPod: The first true portable music library. It can count as ancestors the Creative Nomad (about the size of a Mac mini) and the PJB100 (about the size of a paperback book). The iPod, in comparison, was the size of a deck of cards, could be filled to capacity in 10 minutes instead of 10 hours because of Firewire, and could be used with one hand.
      Wifi: They definitely didn't invent it, but they made it available, quickly, on all their hardware, they built in antennas into all their machines, and they built in first class support in their OS. It took years for others to build antennas, software, and hardware support into their laptops.
      Firewire: In a world of USB, Apple decided to design, release, and adopt Firewire; easily 10-50 times faster, it was the computer that was the bottleneck and not the interface. USB2 wasn't available for WindowsXP until SP1 in 2002. Firewire was available on the first iMac by the end of 1999.
      XServe: One of the worlds most cost effective OEM supercomputer cluster nodes; dual 64bit CPUs with vector processing units at 2.3GHz for $3k
      iPod mini: If you thought the iPod was small, the mini was smaller still, and before any of their competitors.

      Others, last
      iTMS: They created the first music store where for $1 you could burn your purchased music to CD an unlimited number of times, upload to an unlimited number of iPods, and listen to on 5 computers; all other stores limited you to only listening to one computer, none allowed you to upload to an mp3 player, and non allowed you to burn to CD.

      So do you really think Apple hasn't had any innovations since 1998, when they released the colored iMacs?

  63. Re:i'm gooing to get flamed, but... by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if this is true, why is the technology used in the mac becoming ever more like that used in the wintel world [ram, ide, usb, etc].

    You seem to confuse invention with innovation. Using the latest standard of PCI or DDR does not make you an innovator, coming out with stuff like the Mac Cube and the iPod does.

  64. Re:Mac Mini doesn't come with a fricken' monitor!! by Alpha_Traveller · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ah, slight nitpick... the Hard Drive is 40GB. You're off by 20GB. This is more than enough space for a Macintosh that would be used by someone who is focusing on reading email, writing documents and a few basic issues of why you'd by a small PC in the first place. You're not buying it to crunch numbers, you're buying it to be 'basically useful' to you.

    Personally, I think Apple's done the right thing at exactly the right time. There are so many viruses, trojans, etc on the PC side of the house and virtually none on the mac side by comparison -that makes a lot of PC users and the media stand up and take notice. Finally Apple simplicity and anonymity pays off, and you really don't need to do much at all, just plunk down $499 and cannibalize the PC garbage lying around the house to escape the MS-Insanity.

    The $499 version specs:

    1.25GHz PowerPC G4
    256MB DDR333 SDRAM
    ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB DDR video memory
    40GB Ultra ATA hard drive
    Combo drive
    DVI or VGA video output
    AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth optional

    --
    "Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)