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VIA Epia SP 13000 Review
Nehemiah writes "Epiacenter.com just published a review on the brand-new VIA Epia SP 13000 mini-itx mainboard.
It's the first VIA Epia board with the CN400 chipset and, together with the new epiOS Linux distribution that is announced in the review, it seems to have a very good performance during MPEG2/MPEG4 playback."
on the net... here's some links to the article.
Nehemiah writes "Epiacenter.com just published a review on the brandnewVIA Epia SP 13000 mini-itx mainboard.
It's the first VIA Epia board with the CN400 chipset and together with the new epiOS Linux distribution that is announced in the review, it seems to have a very good performance during MPEG2/MPEG4 playback."
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Coincidentally, I just surfed eBay for Mini-ITX boards today. It looks like 533 MHz CPUs are still, after a year or more, the fastest ones available on fanless systems. WTF? Why aren't we seeing 1 GHz+ fanless systems in the Mini-ITX form factor?
Part of the reason for buying mini-itx is the power requirements. Mini-itx boards use a lot less power than a P4 or Athlon and are cheaper than a Pentium-M solution.
Umm, the Mac G4 Cube was plagued with problems including cracked plastic casing, static electric problems with the power switch, heat related issues, etc. Technically Apple has a pretty horrible track record when it comes to making tiny cube computers. How do you know the Mac Mini won't be a dud after 6 months? It's brand new.
Now, with that in mind, I'd buy one too if I had to choose between a Via Epia system and a Mac Mini these days. My diskless Via Epia system with 256MB of RAM was about $350 a year ago (with the case included) so the Mac Mini isn't too far off pricewise considering it has a hard drive and software worth much more than $200.
Or, more to the point what the hell is it anyway?
If it is what I think it is, which is a distro that is taylored toward EPIA, why make a whole distro and not just a tarball of linux drivers and tools?
Well well well, once again another craptacular story submission wafts through the submission process. Thanks, Timothy! You really go the extra mile towards making slashdot more and more crap.
First, here is a link for the VIA EPIA SP line. Notice how the link is descriptive of the content linked to? This is what we the thinking people of the internet refer to as "proper" use of links. The link text should have included "review on the brandnew" (sic) which should have had a couple of additional spaces, one after brand, and one after new, before the link.
Finally, the story submission itself is devoid of content and linked to a site that everyone involved should have known would go down quicker than a crackwhore on your payday. If you're going to link to a site that's going to crater, please give us some information in the story itself.
Nehemiah, I know you were all excited that you had something to submit to slashdot, but couldn't you have taken a little bit of time to work on your story submission? I won't even bother chastising Timothy, who it has long since become clear is not willing to put out any effort at all.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Not designed with longevity in mind? What are you talking about? I'm still running the cheapest piece of crap I could find four years ago. An entire system (minus the video card, I reused my Voodoo3 2000) for only 200 bucks and it still works. My mother still has her fully working PC from back in 1997, without problems (although she's upgrading this month because she wants something a bit faster).
And anything newer than that, how do you know it won't last? For that matter, do you not realize that most of the components are identical? Apple doesn't usually make their own hardware, they buy it, and they buy it from the same people the PC manufacturers buy it from.
Stop spreading stupidity.
[grammar Nazi mode=ON]
From Merriam-Webster online:
[/grammar Nazi]
Thanks for the warning, I'll stay away from them.
MPEG2/4 playback is the first benchmark any informed computer buyer should look at.
Ya! Where do these Mac people get their ideas from. The same underpaid Tawanese make Mac motherboards, and most of the other components are the exact same brands as PC ones (HD, optical, ect). The only thing Mac makes are the nice pretty plastic and metal cases, and the keyboards and mice. And the keyboards and mice are pretty darn unreliable, from seeing them in action in a computer lab. That pretty clear and white plastic does not stand up well to abuse of high schoolers.
proscribe, 1: To denounce or condemn.
Here's a quick hint for you, don't use words you can't spell. Maybe you meant to say prescribe, to set down as a rule or guide; enjoin, to order the use of (a medicine or other treatment).
Now that I've gotten that over with: Mac minis are expensive and proprietary. The memory is not even a user-serviceable part, in terms of your warranty. (Look it up!) The ONLY good thing about it is the cool form factor. It has very limited expansion (even down to having only 1 1394 port) and is only $499 with the most limited hardware and no peripherals. If you want a machine for the looks, buy a mini. However, most of the software that most people want to run out there runs either on Linux, in which case there is no benefit to the Mini beyond the aesthetic, or on Windows, in which case the Mini can't help you.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Thats all I want to know.. does it run or does it just sit there and smolder like the server thats hosting that review? ..and does it smolder linux?
Starsucks
If it were really PDA/smartphone-optimized, all images would be taller than they are wide. I am of course talking about the porn here. I call shenanigans!
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Why oh why on these new small form factor devices do they insist on keeping legacy ports such as serial or the old PS2 style mouse and keyboard? Either make it small and get rid of them or put something useful such as firewire there instead.
Check out his posting history
Notice all those additional adds from his mirrors? I smell a Roland-wannabe...
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
Man you must have really high blood pressure, in the past few days I have seen you post several "you're an idiot" type posts. Good work, keep up the Slashdot flamebaiting.
Would it make a good carputer? If so, we'd love to syndicate the content and post about it.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
A whois on this dubious website that seems to just mirror/copy slashdot, networkmirror.com, revealed it was reigstered through a proxy-domain registar.. domainsbyproxy.com
A simple look at the site will show it's very plain and shows very little work done besides straight mirroring/copying slashdot.
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
(http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: NETWORKMIRROR.COM
Created on: 01-Apr-05
Expires on: 01-Apr-06
Last Updated on: 01-Apr-05
April 1st, eh? Look at this guy's posting history again.. This here was the first post of his showing 'mirrors'.. on April 4th...
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
I talked to an Epia owner about FreeBSD-compatibility, and he mentioned that the dual LAN models he had were having some problems with FreeBSD 4.x and 5.x. I can't remember the exact Epia models, but he mentioned that both of the interfaces were different models of VIA RHINE II. The problem apparently was that the other interface choked and hanged under very little stress.
It looks like the new Epias still have similar NICs; can anyone shed any light on this issue?
The Via C3 come in socket 370 format, so there must be some 370 boards that work with them. I can run passive cooling on the C3. That will quiet down that box.
> The ONLY good thing about it is the cool form factor.
..or even better yet, mod it right into the case.
You've gotta admit the package is cool. Might not be the best comp, but I could see parking one of these on top of my "real" computer with a KVM attached...
I've spent 500 bucks on stupider things..
http://request-header.info
I've never had a good experience with a VIA chipset motherboard.
Sure they're cheap, but thats about all I can say about them.
This reeks of Astroturf..
VIA - Nehemiah
Now that would be cool. Literally. Dual processors! (drool) Want one now!
I have dual pentium II with an uptime aproaching 2 years, and it was in use as a desktop system long before that. But I've had 2 nVidia 6800 GT's fail, a broken nVidia 5600 Ultra, a ASUS motherboard, and a Antec TrueBlue 480 fail all in the course of one year. With the exception of the 6800's these parts were all on different computers. So like I said, either I have bad luck or new hardware is crap.
Personally I'd rather have a couple of extra USB2 ports and an extra network port (though you can add the network port via USB, or you can add a wireless connection via USB since there's no PCMCIA.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
First, just how well is Linux supported by this? Are there open-source drivers for the MPEG2/4 decoding hardware?
Second, there is mention of the idea of using this as a PVR; does this board have the huevos necessary for real-time encoding? I understand that the epia line is pretty wimpy in the CPU department, and MythTV, at least, requires more than I think this board can do. It has MPEG decoding, not encoding hardware.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
I've got a new 1Ghz VIA in place right now, only fan is a teeny one that makes less noise than the drives, etc.
Sure, dust is a consideration over time, but even without the fan too much dust tends to impair the heatsinks' dissipation rate as well...
I have installed Linux on a dozen Mini-ITX boards during the past two years. I love the low power consumption, and the low price.
But, by just about any standard (MPEG playback, video performance, processor speed, form factor size), the Mac Mini beats the Mini-ITX hands down. Okay, I put nicer hard drives in the Mini-ITX boxes than I get in the Mac Mini.
After using both systems as desktop PCs, I can say that the Mac Mini feels like a Ferrari, while the Mini-ITX boxes feel like a Ford Focus. Apart from the fact I actually *like* the Gnome desktop better than OS X, I can still use the Mini to run all of my favorite Unix apps. And, unlike the VIA Mini-ITX boards, where there's a ton of hardware that I can't get to work right (CLE-266 chipset with MPEG decoding), everything on the Mac Mini JUST WORKS.
I don't know. I'm thinking my days running Mini-ITX boxes is over. The Mac Mini has really won my heart, and I can't see why anyone wouldn't consider it for their small form-factor computing needs.
I'm a bit tempted by the promise of a Linux distro tailor-made for the EPIAs, but I kind of have a distro (OS X) tailor made for my current-favorite SFF box.
Regarding longevity, I wonder if it depends on a person's Mystical Breakage Probability Field. In my decade+ of using PCs and UNIX workstations, the only components I've had fail were a 13 year old full-height SCSI drive, a super-cheap Pentium 75 motherboard, and a who-knows-how-old stick of generic RAM purchased used. Other people I know have had similar experiences with a hard drive here or a RAM stick there--really nothing extraordinary.
However, occasionally I'll read a post about someone defending extended warranties or AppleCare, and it seems every piece of electronics they touch turns to dust, explodes, or grows legs and attacks the family. Quite interesting, given my own anecdotal experience with electronics.
So, are the people defending extended warranties cursed by the MBPF...or do they work for the warranty underwriter?
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
I think my Mystical Breakage Probability Field that you speak of has been disrupted. Lately everything I touch breaks, but it didn't used to be like that. Maybe I can severely overclock my CPU then submit a story to Slashdot that links to my server. I wonder if this is an acceptable sacrifice to repent and appease the hardware gods.
Quick correction Re: Mac Mini and memory upgrade. Opening the case does not void the warranty. Also, installing memory does not void the warranty if you use an Apple approved memory part.
I'm in agreement overall with your assesment, if you are comparing the mini with a general purpose computer. On the other hand, I think the mini should be viewed primarily as no more than a particularly powerful console box.
I honestly wonder what would happen if
"Don't worry about the problems you have in mathematics, I assure you mine are much greater." - Einstein c.1919
I've built four fanless VIA boxes - not Mini-ITX, though.
I got VIA 866 MHz cpus, topped 'em with a respectable sized heatsink (with fans) on a full size 370 motherboard, mounted each in mid-size tower case with a seagate barracuda 80 gig drive and a 150 Watt power supply. Now assuming that the CPU might get enough cooling from convective air flow in the case, and that the power supply would never be taxed (at full speed, the system draws maybe 30 Watts), I wired in a switch to cut off the cpu and power-supply fans if so desired.
Once built, I ran some screensavers that pushed the cpu to 100% usage for eight hours (using slackware bootable cd) with no fans whatsoever. All the boxes survived without problems.
Since building them (2-3 years ago now), I eventually used one as a firewall/router - running openBSD. That one suffered a cpu/motherboard burnout after ~4 months of running 24/7 fanless. I dropped the hard-drive in a sibling, and left the fans running - up for ~6 months now without incident.
Another is currently being used to do audio recording with a Demudi install. Having burned out one of the boxes, I am more cautious, running the fans except when recording with microphones. With the fans off and ~6 feet between the box and the microphones, thermal noise from the pre-amps and electromagnetic noise from the radar station on the mountain is louder than the noise from the spinning barracuda.
The 866 MHz VIA is fast enough to handle about 12-14 raw tracks in ardour before running out of cycles (without extra effects). I plan to do final mixing and mastering on a faster dual-pentium box once all the raw tracking has been done.
This may not be adequate for a living-room media center, but it works for me as an audio workstation. I thought others might want to know about it.
I would like to present myself as one of these poor people affected by MBPF, I'm a computer tech, I fix computers, and other peoples computers behave wonderfully under my hands, but everytime for the last 5 years that I've tried to upgrade my computer, (And keep in mind, I'm only entering my second decade of this thing we call life), has caused some kind of failure, bad motherboards, harddrive failures, bad RAM, exploding video cards, and so on, I thank my lucky star's for the manufacturers warranty, and the longer the better :)
The real question is--
Can I run LinuxBios on this? If so, where can I buy one pre-loaded?
Dell + pretty case ^^^^^^^
Error. Does not compute.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA =0&description=56-110-030&ATT=Barebone+Systems&CMP =KNC-goog13
I'm not related to Newegg in any way. I just run one of these at home as file/web/dhcp server, and I think it's freakin' insane that you can buy this kind of barebone so cheap. Add HDD and RAM and you're good to go.
Maybe it's time to get some editors who actually give a crap?
Well, he used the word correctly, then.
What an amazing coincidence that someone named "Nehemiah" is an EPIA enthusiast. *cough*astroturf*cough* Perhaps I, the one and only true Anonymous Coward, should submit "news" stories about Anonymizer.
I believe the power supply in my mini-itx case is a 65W unit and is fanless. It looks not unlike a laptop power supply. IIRC the case is a Morex Cubid (not to be confused with the Cubit).
http://www.hushtechnologies.net/ has lots to choose from with no fans. I would have paid the price premium a couple years ago if I'd known how noisy my Shuttle would be.
try this one?
But, like others have said (w/ troll-like manners), the next five pages would be very useful :)
Thanks for the effort though.
Well, I happen to like my own built PCs. When something breaks (which isn't that common, but it does happen), I just swap out the bad part with another off-the-shelf part, and go on my merry way. As cool as the Mac Mini is, from the look of it, if something went wrong you'd end up pitching the entire thing in the trash, save for a stick of DDR memory and a perhaps a slow laptop harddrive.
here's a quick hint for you: don't offer 'facts' if you can't check out your facts first before blathering on.
about Apple's warranty:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30
and http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25
of course, that doesn't mean they _want_ you to do it; the case is difficult to open but it can be done if you're patient and careful: http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008276.ht
[rant] it's NOT just about looks: the mini target audience is for "adders" and "switchers" who want a computer that just works, i.e. they want their software to work - iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, Safari/Mozilla, as opposed to learning how to be a systems admin to care for their Windows computer. sure you can get a PC for less, but then you still have to buy XP and all the other software. and it's still XP. They're buying the whole ball of wax for the "computing experience", a consistent, friendly, useful experience, so your statement, "...most of the software that most people want to run out there runs either on Linux..." is crap, since there's no decent equivalent to the iLife suite in Linux(or Windows, provide links if you can.) and due to the nature of Open Source, there will be differences(some significant) in UI for linux apps.
don't forget, all macs COME WITH iLife - you don't have to buy it, install it and learn five different ways to do the same thing(i'm thinking of the OS file browser provided to all apps and navigating directories in Explorer)...
you do non-technical readers/users a disservice by not providing proof of your statements - and your lack of experience with the Mac shows. the mac "experience" is something you realize when the computer and the software don't get in the way of what you're doing. i've got a dual-boot windowsXP/gentoo machine i built myself and several Macs. I've been using, programming, designing and destroying software professionally since 1985; i've used punch cards, TTYs, mainframes, supercomputers, PCs, i've designed my own user interfaces when there wasn't even X/OpenGL(remember the Sun1? the DEC Gigi? character graphics on a vt100? i do.) - so i have a lot of choices, my opinion? the user experience in windows is abysmal(sp?) when compared to the mac, so i'll take the mac every time. when you can get a complete, consistent set of programs that do what is included in iLife for Linux/FOSS, it _will_ be a great day indeed. until then you're saddled with inconsistent applications user-interfaces for both linux and windows. ( p.s. i like MythTV, Gimp(especially with the recent UI hacks...), blender, firefox/thunderbird and use fluxbox, but they're just short of the integration achieved on the mac.)[/rant]
here's a review of the mini that i feel is fair and balanced:
http://www.sfftech.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=659
to sum up the mini-memory issue: there are _many_ reviews elsewhere and it has been discussed at length in many forums that you can install your own memory, it's just if you break the lid doing it they won't replace it.
back on-topic: the EPIA series are able performers if you're not a demanding user(the dual cpu board displayed at Cebit looks promising); OK, yet another flavor of linux, why?.
a great place for EPIA info is: URL:http://mini-itx.com//
"...that's as white as it gets; all the bits are on..."
The Epia SP is okay, but it isn't exactly a big step up from its precedessors. The Epia DP is a far more interesting beast - dual processors extends the potential uses of these boards much further than a clock speed or chipset upgrade.
I'll also believe them when I see them: despite much fanfare, the Nano-ITX boards are still largely vapourware.
2. ???
3. Profit!
a Unichrome (graphics) driver for Xfree86 (none for X.org yet, sadly :( )
I run unichrome and X.org on my EPIA-M, as of about 2 weeks ago.
What?
Why can't they put a decent DVI Video output on one of these suckers. Whenever I'm looking to make a small, quiet box for someone, all the analog integrated video on these things have very low picture quality output. I mean you're already paying a price premium for the small form factor and all the associated power supplies, cases, slim drives, etc. Why not build in decent DVI video? I guess most people are really using these as HTPC's and are really only interested in the NTSC Video outs and MPEG performance, but I despise crappy unichrome video that gets fuzzy on anything over 1024x768.
but has anyone know how/tried to silence a dual opteron box?
someone said earlier in the comments that if you had a big enough heatsink, you could make any system fanless.
anyone know of any fanless solutions for opterons?
What is the price of the motherboard?
Did they lower the prices of the older motherboards to way below $100?
Did they figure out that cost of a decent looking case ($200+) is preventing many people from adopting the via mini-itx motherboards as entertainment room computers?
I priced a myth tv setup and found that the case pushed the total cost over $600.00. That went beyond the budget.
It seems the beta is only available to a limited number of testers, which IMHO goes against the idea of opensource. So can anyone provide a torrent?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Guess what? The programs on the mac aren't consistent either. Even they have their own programs that look different from the rest of the OS, IE quicktime. For that matter Apple can't be bothered to follow anyone else's look and feel guidelines, so why should anyone care about theirs? Clicking on the close gadget of a non-foreground iTunes window will raise the window! Idiots.
I don't remember the Sun1, but I certainly remember using glass TTYs. I sat at a VT100-AA for a long, long time.
The lid on the mini should not be designed so poorly that it is easy to break when trying to do something so simple as replace the memory. Who designed this box, linksys? Casio? It's crap. They could have put a hole with a door which in turn has a screw to hold it in on the bottom and put the dimm slots on the bottom of the board. This would have made sense. Instead they tell you to open the case with a sharpened putty knife. It's a piece of crap, plain and simple. No respectable computer snaps together.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
He gave you a link to a product that satisfies all of the requirements you listed initially: a fanless AGP video card. It's not his fault you were vague.
Although the boards are marketed towards users who build machines that are always left on, they skimped on some obvious features needed by most users in this market.
Sorry guys, we just don't know why the server closed immediatly after this news. ;(
Maybe a problem with the bandwith, cause the RAM status was ok and the cpu was idle @ 95%.
"Non-technical readers can piss up a rope" - nice attitude.;-)
and who made you the arbiter of "respectable" computers? there's plenty of crap that's put together with screws, so what makes a respectable computer? it's a computing _appliance_ not a hacker's dream. are you just afraid that your choice of platform is less secure and less usable than a mac, and that's why a mac is crap?
"Clicking on the close gadget of a non-foreground iTunes window will raise the window! Idiots." - i just opened up itunes and then raised safari to the front; clicking on the close button of itunes closed the window. your description doesn't seem to happen on my desktop(dual g4/400/768MB 10.3.8), doesn't do it on my XP box either. what are you talking about?
i do agree with you about the mini's lid; it's a dumb design for someone who wants to get inside, but again, the target audience _isn't_ slashdot's highly technical readers. slashdotters who want to use a mini will appreciate the design and then take it apart anyway and use the guts as they see fit. it seems to bother you that apple's industrial design surpasses a large percentage of the PC industry and allows them to design a computer that's more like an appliance; when was the last time you opened up your microwave to overclock it? we're not talking Tool Time with Tim here.
the expandability of the EPIA(mini-itx) series is cartainly better than the mini(there's 2 slots for ram, ususally a PCI slot, SATA, IDE, sometimes a flash reader) but you don't get apple's software. and not everyone wants to spend a lot of time building apps(not that it's big deal with gentoo, but i'm not an average user.)
"...that's as white as it gets; all the bits are on..."
The iTunes close-raises behavior was witnessed on my XP box. yesterday. It's XPSP2 and Itunes 4.7 (not 4.71, so maybe they fixed it? ha ha.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"You've gotta admit the package is cool. Might not be the best comp, but I could see parking one of these on top of my "real" computer with a KVM attached... ..or even better yet, mod it right into the case."
I've heard rumblings about some people having trouble with the mac mini and KVM switches (FYI, FWIW) Might be worth a google search before plunking down your 500 beans =)
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &