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Midsize Businesses Not Considering Linux?

LukePieStalker writes "eWeek is running a piece about a research report which concludes that Linux is not even on the radar screen for midsize businesses. The survey involved over 1,400 executives of companies with annual revenue around $250 to $500 million. It seems that, while smaller companies may see the licensing savings as being significant, and larger companies have the expertise to manage it, bringing Linux into a midsize Windows shop creates a multiplatform organization which is prohibitively complicated and expensive to manage. Unfortunately, companies of this size comprise the bulk of American business. Quote: "Linux is free, but the support for it is not.""

94 of 418 comments (clear)

  1. Something to Think About by soniCron88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA: "But, in the midsized companies, adding Linux would create a multiplatform company where a Microsoft-only shop existed previously."

    Keep in mind, while medium sized businesses may "comprise the bulk of American business", this is only the current situation. As smaller businesses grow, there will be an influx of Linux based organizations in the medium-sized business world. Adding Linux to a Windows based infrastructure is inherintly more expensive (because you have to pay for the upkeep of two systems). But a computing infrastructure based entirely on Linux is, as far as I know, cheaper in the long run.

    Also, as Linux becomes a better candidate for a desktop platform, its adoption as a viable computing platform will only increase. The state of Linux is, now, significantly more advanced than it was just 2 years ago. 2 years from now, even more so.

    1. Re:Something to Think About by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Linux is free, but the support for it is not."
      Windows is not free, and the support for it is not free either.

      That said, many companies don't provide adequate Windows support; they expect their employees to know how to install softwear, connect to servers, etc. If anything goes wrong the IT department only knows to re-install Windows. That's the real problem: the employees don't know how to use UNIX, so the "support staff" (i.e., the employees) will need re-training if they introduce UNIX. Now, if they had a proper IT department, this would be a few dozen people, but as it is they'd need to train everybody. Cheaper to stick with Windows for the sheeple.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    2. Re:Something to Think About by vettemph · · Score: 3, Funny

      > softwear
      Does that come in a size nine? :)

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    3. Re:Something to Think About by Chuqmystr · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Fellow /.er, my thoughts and experiences exactly. From what I've seen, a great deal of the MCSE's I've come acrossed in the past few years were little more than "paper technicians" spat out from the dot-gone-boom trade school "puppy-mills" for lack of a better description. They still have to be paid a salary. At least most of the Linux suport people employers may meet (and hopefully hire) actually know their craft and can often support much more than just Linux. In my own experiences most of the MCSE's I've met and worked with who were worth their salt were already really good sysadmins in both experience and on paper and had just decided to gain some more skills and another bit of cred.

      So come on corporate America, think of another excuse, you're still full of shit, as per usual. Billy-bitches, the lot of you! Hell, buy some Macs for desktop use and then I'd believe you. OS X boxen seem to almost support themselves these days. And all that money you save on desktop support you can spend on *NIX backend support. Or another executive benefit, although we prefer the former.

    4. Re:Something to Think About by sphealey · · Score: 5, Informative

      > But I find it hard to believe that they are
      > not considering Linux.

      We are. I would love to convert our shop to all-Linux tomorrow.

      Problem is, mid-sized business use midrange apps. E.g. Forth Shift, Visual Manufacturing, etc. Which were written in the late 80s/early 90s. For the Windows API.

      Changing out a business management system is no trivial task for a midsized company, and not undertaken lightly. If and when these midrange vendors compile Linux versions (web-based really doesn't work for high-volume ERP transactions), then we can look at moving to Linux. But unfortunately not before.

      sPh

    5. Re:Something to Think About by jessecurry · · Score: 2, Interesting
      But a computing infrastructure based entirely on Linux is, as far as I know, cheaper in the long run.

      This might not actually be true if you take a look at the costs involved. Most computer users today have at least a general understanding of how Windows works, this means that for a mid-sized business a dedicated IT position is not necessary. By eliminating an entire position the mid-sized business will probably save more per year than they would spend on Windows licenses.
      You also have to take into consideration the fact that most PCs come with Windows already installed and the license is included in the price. During a short stint selling/repairing computers at Office Depot I found that most of the midsize business owners would come in and buy two or three mid-range pre-built computers and hold on to them until they had stopped working (which was normally due to software).
      I think that the major factor keeping Linux out of the mid-sized business world is that linux systems aren't being offered at Best Buy/Office Depot/Circuit City. Once linux is in the store front people will get used to using it. Once people get used to using it small businesses will be able to handle 90% of the administration themselves. Once they can handle the administration they will use it.

      --
      Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
    6. Re:Something to Think About by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Cheaper to stick with Windows for the sheeple.

      And it probably is, actually. IT is so important to most companies these days that there are relatively large budgets dedicated to it even though IT is not the core of their business.

      At least with Windows they know what to expect and they have something they paid for that they can blame (rightly or wrongly) for fuckups. Plus, Windows is getting better and better and the average user is getting to be more knowledgeable.

    7. Re:Something to Think About by The_Wilschon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...late 80s/early 90s. For the Windows API.

      Pardon my asking, but what Windows API was in existence in the late 80s/early 90s? Are you really still using Windows 3.1? (Or was that even around in late 80s?) Alas, by my ignorance of history, I betray my youth.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    8. Re:Something to Think About by dbcad7 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I don't think the average user is getting more knowledgable. I think that Windows is becoming more Unix like to stop them from screwing things up, which is where your "Windows is getting better" comes into play.

      If there were something like a "stable" apt repository for windows users, imagine the down time that would be saved. That's a bit of knowledge that IT managers should take a look at.

      Join us... Debian is the real future... be one with us...

      just kidding, run what you want, and be happy or whatever

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    9. Re:Something to Think About by m0rningstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's still easier to find an acceptably competent Windows admin in most markets that an acceptably competent Linux/UNIX admin, especially given the salaries that most mid-sized organisations are willing to pay.

      Add that to the inherent resistance to change, the cost of retraining users to work on a Linux system at the desktop (or at the mail server, since Exchange/Outlook is a large component of many organisations, together with the tightly integrated AD) and it is an uphill struggle.

      I use Linux at the desktop; we have a couple of linux servers doing some tight applications. The majority of our 'core' applications (Mail/Calendaring and accounting, as well as AAA services) are all Windows based and will remain so for the forseeable future because I don't have a viable alternative that I can give to my management that justifies the change and retraining.

    10. Re:Something to Think About by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      1. And it probably is, actually. IT is so important to most companies these days that there are relatively large budgets dedicated to it even though IT is not the core of their business.

      Repeat after me: Everything will be computerized. Computerized devices are not simple. Because of that, many businesses need a big IT department.

      Where it falls apart is when people who are in IT think they are in the same industry as IBM, Microsoft, Adobe, and countless others. Most of the time, they aren't.

    11. Re:Something to Think About by sphealey · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Pardon my asking, but what Windows API was in existence in the late 80s/early 90s? Are you really still using Windows 3.1? (Or was that even around in late 80s?) Alas, by my ignorance of history, I betray my youth.
      Most of them were written to what we now call the Win16 APIs: Windows 3.1, 3.0 and in a few cases Windows 386 and its predecessors. Or ported from DOS to Windows 3.1 using some sort of CLI-to-GUI tool. They are slowly moving toward the Win32 API (and I yell at my vendors every week to recompile for Linux), but that isn't an easy transition for the app vendor either for what amounts to an "embedded business" app.

      sPh

    12. Re:Something to Think About by sphealey · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I don't entirely disagree with what you are saying, but I think it is a bit of an unrealistic view of how non-technology companies work. Having a well-understood business management application that works for you is not considered being "locked in" necessarily, although there is that risk. Having that application require the most most popular business computing platform in the world isn't even on management's radar screen as a competitive issue.

      sPh

    13. Re:Something to Think About by Chuqmystr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Saving money for the here and now perhaps but either way that money will get spent. In the long run putting that money towards phasing in a better product would be the way to go.

      C'mon pal, it should go without saying that any sizeable IT department with any sense about them is not going to jump both feet first into swaping out all of their enterprise and end user systems. With the advances Mac (and linux too) have made in integrating simply and tightly into heterogeneous environments It's quite painless to start dropping them onto desktops as computers need replacing. It's not going to be for everyone at first when you take into consideration replacing applications and retraining end users. If you want to work towards spending less on endless desktop support of an inherently broken OS like windows then you need to start somewhere. I'd be all for keeping MS in the office If they would just drop their arrogance and just stop the lying and denial fix their shit!

      Anyway, I was speaking in a very general sense to moving away from an all windows house gradualy and mostly I was reffering to the comment that Linux support wasn't free as opposed to Windows support. Like I said, in general, you get a much more experienced support individual in a *NIX sysadmin than you would an MCSE. I would also have to agree that current Windows platforms are more complex than the NT stuff of past and would require a better and more serious admin. I hope that's a trend which will continue. I've been in the business a very long time as a suport guy, then an admin and also a developer and I'm calling it as I've seen and still do see it.

      Oh, and most of corporate America is full of shit. If it wasn't then we'd not be having this discussion which stems directly from Windows, a product of the Microsoft corporation which I think we can all safely agree upon as being quite up to the brim with the smelly and brown. 'Nuff said.

  2. Firewalls by TimeTraveler1884 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I once worked for a smaller company that had this exact viewpoint. They would not even consider Linux for issues that would have actually had cost savings.

    One particular scenario was a firewall. I suggested a Linux firewall due to the lower upfront cost. Now, there were a Microsoft shop, but a firewall is not something that has to be administered everyday (when it is working properly). Instead they decided to go with a Checkpoint firewall that cost them a hell of a lot more than what the support costs would have been for a Linux firewall. The interesting thing was they did not need all the features that were provided by a Checkpoint firewall.

    1. Re:Firewalls by mixmasterjake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would anyone choose to spend thousands of dollars on something when they could get it for free? It's because they believe they will spend more money in the long run.

      Why don't you try this as an experiment. Pretend that someone else built a firewall for the company three years ago. They left and it has been untouched in all that time. Imagine that it suddenly goes down, the whole office if offline, and nobody (including yourself) at the company knows anything about the mysterious firewall.

      Now, try to find support - someone to come to your office and fix the machine. Actually go ahead and make the calls for emergency repair service - pretend like you're shopping around. See what the prices are.

      I'd be curious to know the results of this myself. My gut tells me that it would be tricky to find someone. But, once you found them it might not be that much more expensive than windows.

      --
      TODO: come up with a clever sig
    2. Re:Firewalls by Ogerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One particular scenario was a firewall. I suggested a Linux firewall due to the lower upfront cost. Now, there were a Microsoft shop, but a firewall is not something that has to be administered everyday (when it is working properly). Instead they decided to go with a Checkpoint firewall that cost them a hell of a lot more.

      Here's the problem: A firewall today is not just about "Linux kernel + iptables." Those Checkpoint boxes (and others) are full featured "security appliances" as they call them. They have features such as:

      - application proxies to filter / virus-scan / monitor content: HTTP, FTP, SMTP, etc. (so you can say.. stop employees in the sales dept. from playing games on Pogo during 9-5.. to give an example of the granularity of control available)

      - network monitors and various intrusion detection / prevention methods

      - complete mobile VPN services, including dynamic firewalling rules

      - user authentication services (used for VPN, proxies, replication to other network services, etc.)

      - very complete GUI admin tool / management console. (and multiple security devices can be linked together throughout the company..)

      - daily automated security updates (virus updates, IDS signatures, firewall software updates, etc.)

      Can you do that all with free Linux distros and available OSS tools.. Mostly. Will you be saving any money by the time you've got all the raw materials kludged together into a working solution? Nope.

      The Open Source community has failed miserably at producing real-world solutions. It has produced an enourmous amount of quality raw material. (And if you examine the commercial firewall solutions, you'll find much OSS being used internally!)

      I think there is a good solution to this: The major free Linux/BSD distros need to have subprojects focused on specific needs. For example, there should be a "Debian/Firewall" sub-distro. (note: not a fork) It should provide a more or less ready-out-of-the-box firewall solution using pre-integrated "best of breed" components from the base Debian distro. If there are shortcomings discovered, the improvements can be fed back into the base distro using standard processes. If there are flaws found in the raw materials, this is a perfect way to make sure that OSS meets real world needs through user feedback.

      Now apply this principle to all major areas of network services.. mail servers, file servers, web servers, etc. As long as there is a decent web based admin interface, there will be no problem getting organizations full of Windows-only IT staff to use more OSS. (And meanwhile all the old-school Unix folks are squirming in their seats.. Sorry folks, I don't like it either, but sometimes pragmatism is required. There simply aren't enough smart Unix people to go around. So we either compromise or we let proprietary software continue to dominate the industry.)

    3. Re:Firewalls by myov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My take on this...

      It's my understanding that proper security requires a layered approach. A firewall should only be a firewall and run no other services. Obviously IDS needs to run on the external interface, but proxy servers shouldn't (they're basically a yes/no application, not something that needs direct external connectivity), and things like VPN need to live on the internal side. A network diagram would look like:

      Internet
      |
      Firewall/IDS ------- Incoming only log box with console access only
      |
      DMZ (web, incoming smtp, pop/imap if you want it outside, wireless)
      |
      Second firewall / proxy
      |
      Internal network (workstations, servers, VPN, etc)

      (and if you really want...
      |
      Firewall 3
      |
      Jail for virused/compromized/etc machines)

      Part of the reason for the layers is that you want to limit the damage a hole can cause. What if the app you're running on your firewall has a remote root exploit?

      So, how do these securiity companies get away with providing a single box to do all this? I can't say I'd trust all those services running on a single machine.

      My BSD firewall has 4 network interfaces (external, internal, dmz, jail), connecting to two other servers (one for external services, one for internal services). That's all it does - all the other services run on one of the two other machines.

      However, putting all the proxies in the right place is why I haven't used that setup fully (ie: I can stick my web server on the DMZ, but then it would be blocked from nfs mounting my raid on the internal side unless I allow the traffic or tunnel it, defeating the purpose. Without the mount, I have no backup and it becomes harder to publish content. Or, my VPN server needs to live on the internal side, but I don't want my primary LDAP/NFS server accepting incoming traffic from the outside.). I don't have the budget (or demand) to install a rack of servers to properly segment services.

      Once I know where everything belongs I'll be able to put together packages (or even a big meta-package) with the various config files required to quickly duplicate the setup. I don't think we need a separate distro (and they are out there), but just a better collection of packages. I should be able to pkg_add meta-security-package which will configure the firewall, add squid, ask me to connect to the ldap/active directory/nis/etc. The only advantage the commercial vendors have is that they are providing meta-security-package.

      --
      I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
    4. Re:Firewalls by dubl-u · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would anyone choose to spend thousands of dollars on something when they could get it for free? It's because they believe they will spend more money in the long run.

      It also could be because people will pay a fair bit to mitigate risks that they don't understand. Tax time reminds me that I'm that way with accounting. Doing the tax forms myself would save me the dough I spend on my accountant, and it would probably be cheaper in the long run, even including my time. But taxes and the IRS are such a complicated world that I don't even know what might go wrong. I'm glad to pay the accountant a generous fee just so that I can focus on things that matter to me.

      Also, the incentives for employees in mid-sized businesses can be different than those in larger or smaller companies.

      Large businesses have the time and money to look at all the solutions and pick the best ones, rather than doing what everybody else is doing. If you can convert something from Windows and Linux and make the company net better off including conversion costs, you'll advance your career.

      Small businesses will often follow along with the herd, but because they're pretty cost-sensitive and accustomed to trying to improve things, many people in them will be willing to try new, innovative stuff in the hopes that the risk will pay off.

      But medium-sized businesses are, as you'd expect in between: a lot of IT projects aren't big enough that they can pay staff to really figure out the best choices, but they are comfortable enough that they'll write a check to make the problem go away.

    5. Re:Firewalls by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      *So, how do these securiity companies get away with providing a single box to do all this? I can't say I'd trust all those services running on a single machine.*

      by saying that they have a magic cure for everything and it is this bingzingpop software for windows that any monkey can administer. appearance is everything. selling security like that is selling a good feeling, dreams and giving a scapegoat to blame if something goes south - having not that much to do with what the product actually does. most of all it's convinient, and it needs to be that first and functional second if at all - you wouldn't know it before things went south anyways in which case being a typical windows admin you'd shrug it off as an usual flaw in the system(convincing to yourself that it was force majeure that you couldn't do anything to) and get on with your life.

      does norton advertise how it's products actually work or do they advertise how unbeliviably secure they will make your windows box and protect you from evil hackers that are after your credit card numbers? the salespeople don't need to know what the product does - they sell people whatever they think that the people might want regardless of what the product actually does.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    6. Re:Firewalls by askegg · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are right about the growing requirements of firewall solutions, but have a look at Astaro (http://www.astaro.com/). Linux based firewall/proxy/VPN appliance with a nice web front end.

      --
      I don't make predictions, and I never will.
    7. Re:Firewalls by gaspyy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can relate to that.

      In my company (very small, ten employees) we needed a good firewall, VPN, bandwidth management.

      We had a Linux box (Debian) but the problem with it was that configuring all the things we needed was time-consuming - find the right patch to get the VPN working, edit a dozen text configuration fies, search on Google, ask on forums... Overall, it cost us time and money.

      After 2 years we gave up and bought aZyxel ZyWall Internet Security Gateway. It works flawlessly, we can do everything we need with its GUI, and I keep asking - why haven't I seen a nice centralized UI in Debian from where I could control the system, firewall, VPN, authentication, logs and so on??

  3. They even tossed in calendaring.... in a survey... by Cylix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are they really sure they are not using linux?

    Probably not in some major capacity, but I suspect it's there. All in all, maybe that is why they are in the mid sized category! [Think outside the box] Just kidding... mostly.

    However, one thing about the article really annoyed me and that was the calendaring functions.

    Not to go crazy on this one, but what is the big deal is requiring your calendar and address book be tied to your email client. I guess somewhere along the line everyone got mixed up and decided this is the way life should be.

    It's not difficult to seperate the three and it is certainly not difficult to use them together (ie, mailto link, ldap interface for address). Then if you are really slick your address book ldap elements for your email clients are meta tables based on an extended set of data available... so you get to squeeze tons more information into a relatively organized space.

    That said, I have to get around to configure Open-Xchange for work and setting up the outlook clients with the connector plugin. The suits really love that stuff... me... I just want them to use the ticket system more.

    It would be nice if Evolution had a win32 port.

    --
    "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  4. Call Microsoft for Support by geomon · · Score: 2, Informative

    But get your credit card number and expiration date handy.

    Or issue an open purchase requisition.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  5. Bullshit by Fefe · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have professional dealins with many a mid-size company, and every single one of them has had some network service running under Linux somewhere.

    It might be true that the management doesn't know, though.

    1. Re:Bullshit by anonymous+cupboard · · Score: 2, Informative
      Agreed. One of the ways that Linux gets in to an enterprise is "under the radar". A turnkey box is low-profile. It may not even show a Linux splash-screen. It may not even have a console.

      I have deployed fileservers (Samba) as well as other kinds of backend systems.When it doesn't show itself to the user, they don't care.

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly, this is the problem with most slashdotters. Anecdotal experience always supercedes factual evidence and common sense.

      "New survey says most computer users find Linux hard to use."

      Slashdot response: "Bullshit, I run 35 setups with all different distros, custom kernels, etc etc blah blah [insert linux techno elitist geekspeek here]"

      Nobody cares about your individual computer "skill" or your individual life experiences. Hey, Fefe may hae worked for, like, 200 mid-size businesses...even if thats the case, he STILL can't compare to the official survey of over 1000 mid-size businesses.

    3. Re:Bullshit by Fefe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not disputing their result, I am disputing their methodology.

      A survey will be answered by suits in companies that large, and they tend to know nothing of the Linux installations in their company.

      This survey would mean something if they asked the techies, the admins, the people who actually do something.

      Also, many companies use Linux on WLAN APs or NAS solutions or the like without even knowing it.

  6. Their Loss by FuzzzyLogik · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I say their loss. If they're too strung up with windows to consider other options that very well could provide more stability and better service for a cheaper price then that's their loss. That's alright the others who do realize this will have an advantage when it's all said and done.

  7. Use your knowledge. by PornMaster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You and I know that administration of a firewall doesn't take much of your time, but lots of businesses don't. So what do you do? Start a business providing managed firewall services for a flat fee per month. Use free tools and provide services on top of them, and even RMS is happy.

  8. This is great news for small businesses by Flounder · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Gives them that much more of an edge. Money not having to be spent on expensive support contracts, OS licenses and bloated office suites can be better spent on R&D, marketing, and free beer and hooker Fridays.

    If it wasn't for Linux, Apache, MySQL, and Perl, some of us would be hard pressed to stay in business.

    --

    No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova

    1. Re:This is great news for small businesses by Conor+Turton · · Score: 2, Informative
      Money not having to be spent on expensive support contracts, OS licenses and bloated office suites can be better spent on R&D, marketing, and free beer and hooker Fridays.

      Did you actually read the article? Sure you don't need to pay for the OS but you have to pay someone to retrain the staff, covert applications, deploy it and administer it. If you've already got a MS centric solution that you've already paid for then why the hell would you want to create an unnecessary and far from cheap cost just to change OS for no real reason?

      --
      Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
  9. magnitude by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Linux is not even on the radar screen for midsize businesses. The survey involved over 1,400 executives of companies with annual revenue around $250 to $500 million.

    That's midsize?!

    1. Re:magnitude by C_Kode · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually yes.

      I worked for a wholesale/retail liquor store company that did about 300 million in sales a year with only about 30 total stores. They were not *BIG* but they weren't a small mom and pop business either.

      They wouldn't have allowed Linux in their IT department either if I hadn't been there. I had the knowledge to do it. Even then, it only started with an email server and only because we had such trouble with our ISP's email services.

  10. Talk about spin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "- Only 27 percent of respondents currently have Linux installed.

    - Almost half of respondents said they had "no interest" in Linux.

    - Of the companies where Linux is not already installed, 48 percent have no interest and an additional 15 percent are not sure."

    So to sum it up, 27 percent already use Linux and of those who don't more than half are interested in it, while an other 15 percent are not sure.

    How someone can conclude that this means midsize bussinesses are not considering Linux is beyond me.

  11. From TFA by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The just-released report includes results of a survey of more than 1,400 IT executives ... (emphasis mine)

    I.e., not sysadmins or developers. I think it's quite reasonable to assume that in many cases, the people actually doing the work are using whatever tool best fits the task -- unless they're hamstrung by stupid company policies, of course -- and not bothering to tell the PHBs, either because they don't think it's worth mentioning or because they're afraid of being shut down.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:From TFA by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Reading the replies so far, I can't help but wonder, why do people try so hard to spin any survey results that look bad for Linux? You don't see this in Windows articles or other topics regarding other competing operating systems. But when an article is posted that reveals that the Linux movement isn't 100% full-steam-ahead in all ways, everyone starts splitting hairs. "It said IT executives, not sysadmins!" Well, who do you think the sysadmins are working for?

      A lot of these places have systems they have been using for a decade or more. It's going to take a while for them to "see the light" so to speak and just convert everything over to Linux when whatever works for them...still works for them. Seriously, why should they switch if they are happy with what they've got?

      I suspect most of the disinterest in Linux stems from the fact they already have systems in place that work for them. However, small businesses would be more interested in Linux because of price, and large businesses because of price and platform. Mid-size businesses don't have the resources to switch everything over, but have enough to have already chosen a system previously that still works fine.

      I imagine if you did this same survey with other operating systems like, say, Windows Longhorn, you'd find that mid-sized businesses are pretty much disinterested in it too--why switch from what they've got? In other words, not necessarily anything to do with Linux specifically. Any switch of systems is going to require a support cost, not just Linux.

    2. Re:From TFA by naelurec · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are a few things that I think the /. crowd doesn't get:

      Most businesses are NOT tech businesses. As a result, they tend to want to keep their costs for tech low and support options open.

      Virtually all businesses looking into Linux would be migrating from Windows. The fact that Windows is the core of their technology infrastructure and the support options are there (hardware, software, niche market software, inhouse software, etc..) its VERY difficult to transition.

      Sure there might be future cost benefits but are those guaranteed? Doubtful. Microsoft is making inroads in areas that are considered issues -- primarily malicious code and security issues. Reliability (ie BSOD and random reboots) are in large part not much of a concern anymore -- MS has addressed this issue since ~w2k's release.

      So I agree with you -- its not a surprise. From what I have read, the ONLY people currently transitioning to Linux are the following:

      - Large corporations with a stake in the success of Linux (ie ibm, novell, etc..)

      - Governments that are interested in re-investing in their economy instead of pushing money MS and the US economy.

      - Small businesses and startups that do not have a pre-existing infrastructure based in Windows (generally tech based startups).

      - Select portions of a companies infrastructure that does not require much more than a web browser or single, in-house app.

      I think that about sums it up. Needless to say, as these segments grow, it will put pressure on the others to futher maximize their tech infrastructure to stay competitive. As more companies utilize FOSS and can show definitive cost savings.

      Hopefully the IT team at these companies are aware of the changing landscape and have already started to plan for the _possibility_ of migrating to another platform in the future (ie make sure existing software is cross platform, etc..) -- I know this is where I am with several companies, so even though the companies are primarily Windows, the ability to transition in the future is becoming less of a "chance" due to pro-active migration to FOSS/cross platform apps and open standards.

      If a full Linux infrastucture is in these companies futures, I think for most of the employees, when that day comes, it will be about as big of a deal as a Windows upgrade -- some relearning where stuff is located, but not the huge divide that existing companies making the transition have to overcome.

  12. ummm.. by Beatbyte · · Score: 4, Funny

    Linux is free, but the support for it is not.

    Microsoft now supplies free IT employees with their expensive OS?

  13. More like this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Linux is free but support isn't"

    I have yet to encounter a problem in Linux that can't be resolved by googling, or calling the vendor.

    A corrolary is:

    "Microsoft 'support' isn't"

    IE, the teleflunkies at MS Support don't even know the basics of their own OS. I worked as a Intern with a large company, we were trying to spit out a webpage for some app, and gee, used Frontpage for the quick and dirty work. I know, hand code, yadda-yadda, but everyone else there was Mainframe gurus, and they had MS on the desktops.

    Anyway, this particular version of MS was generating improperly nested formatting, which we could reproduce...

    I was told "Hey, we have a support contract with MS, call them"

    "Hi, I need help with frontpage, it's generating malformed HTML. Is there a patch out? Or something we can do."

    "Front page generates compliant HTML"

    "No it doesn't, I can tell you how to do it. Do you have a bug process"

    *Conversation goes no where after description of convoluted process to get bug even noticed by MS. Every Open Source Project, I have very little problem submitting bugs*

    Microsoft support isn't support. Yer paying for nothing.

    1. Re:More like this... by ExtraT · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Having worked in MS Support (MS Word), I can tell you that you are 100% correct. Microsoft goes out of it's way to ignore ANY kind of input from users. THey even have a fake bug submitting system, which is directed to /dev/null at all times. They are de facto conning their own support agents.

      All the bug fixes they put out are a result of corporate support packages (we're talking millions here). An ordinary Joe that calles MS tech support has ZERO influence.

    2. Re:More like this... by ExtraT · · Score: 2, Informative

      I got a personal response from the two Microsft employees the last time I submitted a bug report to Microsoft. Of course you did. That's because what you submitted WAS NOT A BUG REPORT. You submitted a support request, and got responce from MS Support. In M$ world, end users certainly don't have authority to generate any bug reports. :)
      Now, let me tell you how MS Support works. There are 3 levels of support: First level (the normal run of the mill telephone drones), Second level (so called "mentors") and Third level (that's where the actual M$ employees are) . First two levels ARE NOT M$ EMPLOYEES - they are outsourced. When a normal Joe wants support, he deals only with the first two levels - third level only trains and supervises (and drinks - my supervisor was a genuine alcoholic :) )
      The support drones of both levels have acces to certain internal M$ tools, one of which is a bug report system. That system is there only to mislead the drones into believing that the bugs they find (and they do find - lots of them) get looked at by the programmers. Once upon a time, my suprviser slipped, and told me the bug report system is irrelevant, and the reports are discarded. And believe me, it fit the picture perfectly :)
      Basically, if a user calls with a problem that is caused by a bug, he is either provided with a workaround, or gets his 35$ back (each support case is 35$). The only way a bug gets fixed is if it's discovered by a corporate ("pro") support client (we're talking millions of dollars here). Bug fixes generated for these clients also get distributed to the ordinary Joes.

      I hope that explains the elightened M$ support phylosophy.

  14. Article gets it by Espectr0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a saying in spanish "mas vale malo conocido que bueno por conocer" which roughly translates to "better something bad that is known than something good that is unknown" (don't know if there is some saying in english similar to it)

    People are scared of trying new things, especially management types. Increasing the complexity of a system by installing other in parallel can get, er, complex. Linux can be installed for free, but no support.

    People will prefer to pay for windows than to pay for support and training to use alternatives.

    1. Re:Article gets it by phauxfinnish · · Score: 3, Informative

      English saying: Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

    2. Re:Article gets it by Deagol · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I don't know where it originated, but my 9-year-old daughter got this from a fortune cookie at a buffet:

      One old friend is better then two new ones.

      While the meaning of this really tweaked my kid's brain for a while, it can make sense in the business world. And while the meaning is indeed different than the saying you quote, there's a common theme: familiarity can be equated to security.

  15. Dual system scenarios by drakethegreat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From reading all the comments thus far, its becoming obvious that these companies don't want to run linux because they already are paying for support with Windows.

    My question is quite simple. Is it really more expensive to run Linux after already paying for windows? Seriously because I thought (never bought a windows OS myself) that you had to basically purchase a copy of windows for each department, etc. Microsoft I believe makes you pay for multiple copies of the same OS because thats how it makes the money to maintain its position in the marketplace. I could be wrong but if I'm not then it tells me a lot of companies find Windows cheaper when they use it illegally.

    A lot of this varies greatly between companies too. A dry cleaning company may be more reluctant to use Linux then a company specializing in electronics. Keep in mind that these surveys generalize a large amount.

  16. I get free (except my time) support on the Net by antispam_ben · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Quote: "Linux is free, but the support for it is not."

    A couple years ago, not knowing anything about Linux, I bought a boxed Linux release at the Big Computer Store and proceeded installing it on an older P200 machine. There's a place where it stalled during installation. I googled and group.googled for a while (searching on release version, looking for hints on install problems) and found a Usenet post complaining about my very problem, a respnse spelled out how it wouldn't install on a Pentium 1 because something was compiled for a later processor. The responder pointed to a fix: put this file on a floppy inserted into the floppy drive when installing. I did, it worked.

    On most products it's just as easy to presume they are orphaned, and the only support is unofficial, outside the product's maker. This often gets me better support than going to the manufacturer.

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
  17. They don't use Linux.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    because FreeBSD is better.

  18. Clearing something up by gexen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before any more people go and post about how calling Microsoft for support costs money, please remember the following:

    1) If the place is a Microsoft shop with a bunch of servers 10-20+, they're most likely a Microsoft Certified Partner who get X amount of free trouble support requests per year. And if YOU solve the trouble shooting or if you bring a question to them that there is NO way you could know or find the answer to, they do not charge/deduct credits. As long as you've done your research and have tried everything to fix the problem, you're most likely not going to be charged.

    2) "Support" isn't just calling Microsoft. It also consists of paying on-staff administrators to support everything. The admin(s) that are currently there, if it's a Microsoft shop, are probably MCSA/MCSE's and most likely not that well trained in Linux. For a mid-size business, a salary of 40-60K for another admin is probably a very prohibitive expense.

    1. Re:Clearing something up by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2, Informative
      X amount of free trouble support requests per year.

      Seen that in action. For all but the most straightforward problems, that support is worthless.

      To get to anyone knowledgeable for MS products, you've got to pay through the nose.

  19. Not entirely... by PridIdOct · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Theirs and Linux's. If nobody uses an operating system, there will be no incentive for software producers and such to market to it. Likewise, if everybody uses an operating system, there will be a large incentive for software producers and such to market to it. If Linux had more people using it, more people would market to it, and more people will be willing to use it. Now, of course, Linux isn't exactly tiny...but it isn't nearly as large as Windows. The more people who use it, the better it will be, I think (but this statement isn't too true for Windows, as tons of people use it and it still isn't as good.../me pets Ubuntu and Fedora).

  20. "IT Executive"? by Matilda+the+Hun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What, exactly, does an "IT Executive" do? Wouldn't that just be a manager in the IT department? Why don't they just ask the people who actually DO the work? Even if the article says that "IT Executives in mid-sized companies are hands-on", the fact that some of these companies make $250-500 mil. says to me that the company is too large to keep a close eye on every bit of tech in it. Managers are the people who *think* they know everything that's going on, but they're probably the ones who know the least.

    --
    Tluin natha Linux xxizzuss uriu olt bwael mon'tun.
  21. Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Midsize Businesses fear multiplatform organization which is prohibitively complicated and expensive to manage?

    Maybe it's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world.

  22. Bulk of US Business by joelgrimes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately, companies of this size comprise the bulk of American business

    I think that is incorrect. No matter how you measure it, small businesses are a larger component of the economy.

    • Represent more than 99.7 percent of all employers.
    • Employ more than half of all private sector employees
    • Pay 44.5 percent of total U.S. private payroll.
    • Generate 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs annually.
    • Create more than 50 percent of nonfarm private gross domestic product (GDP).
    • Produce 13 to 14 times more patents per employee than large patenting firms. These patents are twice as likely as large firm patents to be among the one percent most cited.
    • Are employers of 39 percent of high tech workers (such as scientists, engineers, and computer workers ) .
    • Are 53 percent home-based and 3 percent franchises.
    • Made up 97 percent of all identified exporters and produced 29 percent of the known export value in FY 2001.

    4 year old stats, but I don't think it's changed

    link

    1. Re:Bulk of US Business by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are correct, but the original article says for this survey they considered all companies with under 1 billion in revenue as "mid-sized" companies (so that would include small business).

      I actually tried to post this about a week ago with a link to the actual study but was rejected :-( I guess I should have waited until there was an editorial summarizing the study then linked to that and write a summary which mis-states what the study says. Maybe then my post would have been accepted ;-)

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  23. Not suprising... by grumling · · Score: 3, Interesting
    IBM had the same model, for the most part. Big business used many different mainframe manufacturers -Data General (OK, more of a mini builder), DEC, Burrowes, Singer (formerly CCC), Honeywell, HP, etc because they were writing custom applications and could be choosey (and, yes, IBM was in there too). But mid-sized companies usually couldn't afford to have custom apps, so IBM was happy to provide off the shelf solutions that could easily be customized. The real small players, colleges and automatated control folks were running DECs and other such stuff, with free software they could hack together easily because the systems were so open (I used to own a PDP-8e, and it had all the mechanical drawings and parts lists -imagine getting all that for today's machines).

    I'm sure there were people who believed that mid sized companies were wasting money buying big blue, but the combination of FUD^H^H^Hsalesmanship from the friendly IBM rep, total lack of understanding of computers, and the one-stop budget line (a big deal to accounting) makes it worth the other hassles. As much as we like to think that computers are more accessable, there are still a large number of people who don't understand 'em, don't like 'em and don't want to know about 'em. We call those people managers!

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  24. We're a small-midsized business... by kikensei · · Score: 4, Interesting

    About 50 people, but the company grosses a few hundred million a year. We're moving to the new Novell Linux Small Business Suite next month. :) Although, I've already been using linux for mail, web and intranet stuff for about 5 years.

  25. Why articles on what is supposedly NOT being used? by Locutus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok folks, I can see how it would be "interesting" to the press to write about what IS being used and picked up by the industry, but writing articles about what IS NOT being picked up? I wonder why they would feel the need to do that? Not.

    There is obviously a motive behind this tactic and the motive is hidden from view for obvious reasons. Whenever there is a shift from one product for another, all those tightly involved in the losing market are going to do anything they can to slow down, stall or even stop the migration. Atleast until they too can figure out a way to shift over to that new market and pull profits from it. Think about the oil industry and hydrogen/fuelcells. All of Detroit held up the gas/electric hybrid flag until Bush took office and directed them to hold up the hydrogen/fuelcell flag. A shift threatened the profits of one industry, oil, and many players involved moved attention away from the immediate solution in order to slow down growth while they figured out how to play catch-up. In this example, there has been a number of articles falsely stating data.

    So, why would eWeek/PCWeek/ZiffDavis post an article about companies who have decided NOT to use GNU/Linux?

    I recall seeing them post a few articles about how much money was being made on sales of Microsoft software compared to GNU/Linux. The funny thing is, THAT kind of article was showing businesses how much they were sending to Microsoft or its partners, instead of NOT spending the money on GNU/Linux. Microsoft has shifted its marketing from competing on price with GNU/Linux and is now focusing on TCO. Just like this eWeek article....

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  26. Re:Paranoia by B'Trey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't see much difference in this and contracting out physical security services. If Acme Security provides the nightwatchmen for you and also for your rival down the street, are you going to worry about them letting your rivals come in the back door and rummage through your place at night?

    There is no conflict of interest in providing security for competing businesses. You have a contract with each business to protect their network infrastructure. You do not have a contract to help their business succeed or to assist them in any other way. You specifically don't have any interest in helping one company to accomplish illegal acts of corporate espionage. Your interest is to protect each network and there is no conflicting interest for you to take any other action. It isn't at all like the case of, say, a law firm representing two competing businesses. While there may be a small number of managers who won't grasp that, most business people are familiar with a company providing services to multiple organizations, including competitors. Do you think they worry about the power compnay cutting off their power in order to help a competitor? How about UPS letting the competitor look through their packages? The phone company letting them listen to phone calls?

    --

    "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

  27. Re:They even tossed in calendaring.... in a survey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's also the KDE approach. It has separate applications for mail, calendar and address books. However, they all communicate together well, and they're built in such a way that an application like Kontact can embed each of the individual pieces into a monolithic, Outlook-style interface.

    It's the best of both worlds, I suppose.

  28. Linux roaring success with midsize businesses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A recent report shows that Linux is a roaring success with midsize businesses.

    An amazing 27% of the companies taking part in the survey were already using Linux.

    But the most important finding of the report is, that more than 50% of those companies currently not using Linux think about deploying Linux.

    It seems it's really time for Microsoft to start worrying.

  29. Best taken with a bucket of salt by NatteringNabob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We don't know what the actual report says (and I'm sure not going to buy a copy), but there are some definite red flags surrounding this report.
    1) Infotech says that Microsoft didn't pay for this report, but they weren't asked who did pay for it, nor were they asked how much of their business is derived from Microsoft.

    2) We don't know who the 1400 executives were. Were they all in the IT department? If not, do they erally know what is in use in their IT department?

    3) According to the survey 27% of these companies were already using Linux. That is a huge number. I think it is save to say that 10 years ago, the number was 0%. The report says that Linux use has 'stalled' in this market, but if they haven't been doing the survey every year, how do they know that?

    4)Even if it were true, it at best represents a snapshot of the marker today. GNU/Linux is continuing to improve at an extremely rapid pace, and Windows is not.

    5) Finally, and most import, who cares what other businesses are doing? If your business can benefit from using Linux (or not), that is the only thing that matters.

  30. Xenophobia by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know I am not the only one who has experienced Linux xenophobia before. To me, Linux, Windows and all others are just another way of doing things... so I do them all. (Not everything looks like a nail to me)

    But bringing up Linux to some people strikes fear and confusion into their hearts because it's very foreign to them. And in the tech world, to appear to be ignorant is a sign of weakness.

    So largely what we're seeing is the natural resistance to change. Bosses don't often know anything about their IT stuff and rely largely on their in-house experts for advice... largely, these are people who only know Windows, so naturally, the advise Windows. But more and more, tech people are getting curious about Linux, learn about it and start using it.

    Nothing can really accellerate this progression except marketting and there's not much marketting going on. IBM was marketting for a short time... it was encouraging and it got people talking about Linux and wondering what it was.

    It's all an eventuality, I think, but only while current activities don't change. I work for a medium-sized corporation... maybe edging into 'large' but we have a strong desire to migrate into Linux based solutions. (There was a BSA audit a few years back, I'm told... With all this buzz about Linux and OSS have you heard anything about BSA lately?) Whatever the case, the more things like Perl, PHP, Apache, Firefox and even OpenOffice are used, the more we like it. It's just working out for us and since the migration is somewhat gradual, there is little to no shock involved.

    We will begin testing the Novell Linux Desktop before long... I am very excited at the idea and I expect my site to be the first to get it.

  31. Midsize companies buy computers, not OSs. by xplenumx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every single institution I've been at bought computers in bulk from Dell, with the OS (windows) pre-installed - only those with special needs (and were pretty computer savy to begin with) used Linux. Linux simply isn't a household name in the desktop market. Besides, practically everyone uses Windows or the Macintosh - sticking with a popular OS (real or perceived, it doesn't matter) reduces the risk of incompatability with the rest of the world.

    1. Re:Midsize companies buy computers, not OSs. by QAPete · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm the Director of IT for a $100 million dollar 'small' company, and we use Linux where we can. Where we *can't* use it effectively is on the desktop, or to replace our MS Exchange 2003 server (two of several examples). Reasons: Linux distros are *still* not ready for prime time on the desktop, and until we have a killer Linux desktop distro being preinstalled on Dell boxes, it's just not going to happen. As for Exchange 2003, Open Exchange, in all its flavors, is still not quite there from a functional standpoint. Yeah, I know I could get out my shoehorn and jam a Linux foot in my company's shoe, but frankly, it's not the right thing to do (yet). Still hoping...

  32. Is Linux really free? by Neopoleon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Linux is free, but the support for it is not."

    While it's entirely possible (and easy) for anybody who's interested to get their hands on Linux, consider the company to which many businesses will go first: Red Hat.

    Have any of you looked at the cost of a Red Hat Linux subscription lately?

    Feast your peepers on these numbers, my friends: Red Hat server licensing options.

    Sure, you don't have to go with a solution like this, but any company that depends even a little on its IT department is going to want some real support and culpability - they aren't going to just be throwing Slackware on machines willy-nilly.

    Food for thought, mes amis.

    --
    - Rory [Microsoft Employee] | Free dirt: neopoleon.com
  33. Re:I work at one of these so called mid rangers by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Funny
    Now granted I consider myself a top notch linux admin but I don't make any more money that anyone else.

    And that's the problem! Here you are taking the jobs away from five or six Windows administrators that are now panhandling or something! Good God, man! You're single handedly destroying the entire IT economy as we sit here! Have you no shame?!?!!

    --
    That is all.
  34. Amen! Their loss. What a great pity it all is. by ahfoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's like a constant barrage of these articles about how --oh gosh businesses aren't satisfied with free software for XY and Z reasons and if those don't change then business will never use free software.
    Well, uhm so what?
    This more users argument is stupid. MS clearly disproves the theory that more users makes better software. Of course more coders seeing code should most certainly be helpful in numerous ways, but that's a completely different issue. More clueless users whining about what they don't like though? Who cares? Let them stay away in droves.
    All the better as far as I'm concerned. Free software doesn't need business. This is the whole point of free software. Business is irrelevant. This is why MS is, in fact, a monopoly: free software is not competing with Microsoft because free software is free. You're not competing if you're not in the same market and free software is certainly not in MS's market.
    Moreover, free software will inevitably drain that market, but observe that this is not the same as being in the market. It's more like an alternative to the market that demonstrates how ridiculous the whole metaphor of a market was for a product that had no physical existence and could be re-created more or less infinitely without costs worth tabulating.
    Open Source is the awakening to the fact that software is too important to be shackled to arcane and inappropriate systems like markets which are effective only under conditions of scarcity. Open Source is the beginning of the real software of the future and its destiny is most certainly manifest. Geek hippies will rule the world!
    So, when these businesses get broadsided by other businesses that do reduce their costs by using free and open software then this petty crap will no longer be an issue. It's just a matter of time.
    Until then, what difference does it make other than being fodder for a pissing contest in the IT press. FOSS will be just fine with or without these businesses.

  35. Re:They even tossed in calendaring.... in a survey by Etyenne · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Not to go crazy on this one, but what is the big deal is requiring your calendar and address book be tied to your email client. I guess somewhere along the line everyone got mixed up and decided this is the way life should be.

    Off all the move Microsoft made toward customer lock-in, I think tying Outlook and Exchange together with closed protocol was the smartest. Making Exchange 2000 depend on Active Directory was the second smartest. Now that the suit are in love with Outlook and that most people equate email with Outlook, they have a pretty strong tie on the server room of most organisation.

    As a side note, I can't believe people actually like Outlook. The damn POS is so confusing, I wonder how people actually get anything done using it.

    It would be nice if Evolution had a win32 port.

    Apparently, Novell is working on one.

    --
    :wq
  36. Linux: The reality by dfuller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Having come from a shop which manages Linux efficiently, and having done consulting gigs with Linux shops...

    The problem with Linux is it's possible to manage it very efficiently but the majority of shops don't know how. Tools like cfengine and a reasoned and planned methods are not implemented as a discipline.

    I haul out Kirk Bauer's "Automating UNIX and Linux Administration" and it's both a revelation and a threat to the staff, who spend their days either pointing and clicking or doing the same thing over and over again at the command line. How desparate is that?

    Unfortunately, most of these shops are managed by bottom-line folks who do the do every day and never consider alternatives. The ones who hum along don't bother to respond to such surveys because they _get it_. They invest in the scaffolding that has to be built and once it's in place, the thing just plain flat rocks and IT finds its proper role - disappearing.

    When I talk to such organizations about IT, I tell them "if I do my job just right, I disappear." It usually causes crossed brows and consternation, but it's so.

    Linux advocates do themselves great injury by not creating and requiring open architectures and open methods of system administration. And disappearing. It's only sexy if you watch it all happen.

  37. Why would they be "complex to manage"? by melted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If anything, a single competent linux admin can run a LARGE set of Linux boxes with little to no effort. Create custom install scripts for "regular" boxes (Kickstart), point the boxes to your own package repository, enable nightly updates - there you go, half of the problems you'd have with "stock" windows (if you pay for SMS, windows will install shit for you, too) is solved right away.

    Then lock down the boxes for non-root accounts, put together a file server, and install windows 2003 with 10 terminal server licenses for the rare occasions when someone needs Word and OO won't do.

    This, of course, assumes that that you're only running Office or Java software on your windows boxes. If you have custom windows apps, shit becomes really complicated. Well, at least until BSA raids you for minor non-compliance. :0)

  38. The headline is priceless, too. by timothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know whether Coursey supplied the headline (maybe some editor above him did), but it's one of the more Onionesque headlines one could see on a computer-centric Website.

    "Midsize Businesses Have No Use for Linux"

    Now say that again with a straight face, and wonder. This is stretch past even the stretches contained in the article that follows.

    Now, surely there are many businesses (for various reasons, of varying degrees of rationality), aren't currently using Linux. (Or Mac OS X, or any version of Windows past 98, etc.) However, even the very few data points I know of (check out NewsForge, any big IT publication, Dr. Dobbs, etc. for more and better) are more than enough to make clear that Coursey's article is the usual Coursey -- provocative if you're a pal, flamebait if you're offended, laughable if you think that he's sincere, trolling if you think Coursey knows he's egregiously distorting the truth. I go with that last one, but Hey, maybe he's just a big prankster.

    timothy

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
  39. These Guys are Boneheads by sabat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Linux is free but support isn't? Well clearly, these geniuses have discovered an OS that has free support. Microsoft is doing that now, right?

    I say this from professional experience in a small-mid-sized company: Windows complications are more common and more problematic than Linux's are. Windows has good marketing, but shit never works the way it's supposed to. And then you have to try and deal with a single-vendor platform to make it work.

    But let 'em keep using Windows. Eventually they'll figure out that the guys using Linux (or *BSD) are better, faster, and more secure than they are. These guys are just a little slower than the rest of us.

    Also: what do you think the odds are that these brain donors have Linux boxes running critical systems and don't even know it? Linux by stealth is really common; it's how I got Linux into my shop.

    --
    I, for one, welcome our new Antichrist overlord.
    1. Re:These Guys are Boneheads by DaveCBio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The big problem is that it's not just the OS, it's the apps. Right now there are some good apps for Linux, but most don't have all the features that businesses might need. It's easier for most companies to buy off the shelf Windows apps than to pay someone to develop or tweak an exisitng Linux app.

  40. Translation: by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Executives in $250M/year to $500M/year companies don't know, what systems their engineers are running. If the company is smaller, executives likely know more about what they manage, and if the company is larger, it's an IBM client."

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  41. Conclusions don't match the data? by burner · · Score: 4, Insightful
    • Only 27 percent of respondents currently have Linux installed.
    • Almost half of respondents said they had "no interest" in Linux.
    • Of the companies where Linux is not already installed, 48 percent have no interest and an additional 15 percent are not sure.
    So let me get this straight, 1/4 of midsize businesses are already using linux, and another ~ 1/4 have interest in it. And the conclusion we're supposed to draw is that mid size companies have "no use" for linux?
    --
    MRSH-Recording device, corned beef sandwich with kraut, seafaring bird, and the foamy top of a beverage.
  42. minor quibble by scruffyMark · · Score: 4, Informative
    So to sum it up, 27 percent already use Linux and of those who don't more than half are interested in it, while an other 15 percent are not sure.

    Not quite right.
    100 % total - 27 % with linux = 73 % without
    of whom 100 % total - 48 % not interested - 15 % unsure = only 37 % of those without linux are interested
    73 % without linux x 37 % of them interested = 27 % without linux but interested

    I agree with your general point though - 27 % use linux, and a further 27 % are interested in it. 54 % are either using linux or interested it it. That hardly qualifies as "off the radar"

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    What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht

  43. Moderation help by linuxpaul · · Score: 2, Funny
    Linux is free, but the support for it is not.

    How do you mark an entire article "-1 Troll"?

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  44. This is what terminal services is for. by Some+Random+Username · · Score: 2

    Set up a windows server to run these apps, and use terminal services to connect from your linux desktops. Or, if you have a huge amount of people needing to use it at the same time then terminal services isn't so hot, so use citrix.

    If you use citrix, you also have the advantage that you can have it so that people simply double click an icon on their desktop, and the app runs on the server, but appears in a window on their desktop just like with remote X apps. It works fantastically well, we use it for several old VB apps.

    1. Re:This is what terminal services is for. by Some+Random+Username · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What complexity? In alot of cases it is WAY easier to run certain apps on a citrix server, even if its windows software and windows desktops, and this has been the case for years. The time savings of having desktops act as dumb clients that boot off the network and run all their apps remotely from servers is immense. Its so much easier to manage a medium to large sized network this way, and managing software upgrades is a breeze.

      And your savings comes from the time spent, you need WAY fewer admins to manage such a network. Also, you gain additional savings from the fact that you gain control of your infrastructure. You no longer have to upgrade hundreds of desktops when microsoft tells you to, often having to upgrade hardware too just to support the latest version of windows that provides no benefit.

    2. Re:This is what terminal services is for. by jbolden · · Score: 2, Informative

      This has been Sun's argument for the last decade. The fact of the matter is it isn't true. Joe average users wants the ability to install his own software and use particular apps as much as the technical people do. They don't like administrative fascism any more than we do.

      When they are given a locked down environment work tends to migrate off the locked down environment to a completely uncontrolled environment (home systems, personal laptops, PDA's, physical notebooks...). Now thin client doesn't require fascism in fact it can allow for more freedom if each user has liberal permissions in their home directory but the fact is this requires support.

      There is no getting around high support costs and a high admin:employee ratio to actually support the business.

    3. Re:This is what terminal services is for. by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This has been Sun's argument for the last decade. The fact of the matter is it isn't true. Joe average users wants the ability to install his own software and use particular apps as much as the technical people do. They don't like administrative fascism any more than we do.

      Um, it doesn't matter if they like it or not. They are using thier company's computers, not thier home computers.

      Of course, depending on job function the user may ligitimatly need to install apps...but it should be locked down so that said apps can't screw up the rest of the network.

      When they are given a locked down environment work tends to migrate off the locked down environment to a completely uncontrolled environment (home systems, personal laptops, PDA's, physical notebooks...).

      And such systems should be completely denied from accessng the network.

      Now thin client doesn't require fascism in fact it can allow for more freedom if each user has liberal permissions in their home directory but the fact is this requires support.

      This is probably true, if you can install apps to your home directory. In windows you can't yet, but *nix obviously it can be done. Of course if the app they install screws up thier home directory files, you'll still have to fix it. So even in that case it might be wise not to allow it.

      There is no getting around high support costs and a high admin:employee ratio to actually support the business.

      Sure there is; lock their systems down.

    4. Re:This is what terminal services is for. by tftp · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Joe average users wants the ability to install his own software and use particular apps as much as the technical people do.

      They can want all they want, but they are not allowed to. The reasons are many, such as licensing, and possible conflicts with other business-critical applications. They can go home and play sysadmin there.

      work tends to migrate off the locked down environment to a completely uncontrolled environment (home systems, personal laptops, PDA's, physical notebooks...)

      One can be easily fired for copying company's files onto employee's own media and taking it home. Do you really think the company's property (Valve's source code, as an example) should be laying around on personal computers, where anyone can help himself to it?

      There is no getting around high support costs and a high admin:employee ratio to actually support the business.

      That's defeatism. Give every employee the s/w that s/he needs and lock it down. Let them then explain why an accountant needs PhotoGallery or Microsoft Messenger.

  45. Have you reported the bugs yet? by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    mid-sized business use midrange apps. E.g. Forth Shift, Visual Manufacturing, etc. Which were written in the late 80s/early 90s. For the Windows API.

    Have you reported the incompatibilities between Wine and those apps both to the Wine developers and to the app developers?

    1. Re:Have you reported the bugs yet? by tftp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no way in hell *anyone* can trust WINE to run such a business-critical application. A failure of a database that runs the factory or the warehouse can easily cost $100,000 per hour. Cost of Windows OS is not even a factor here.

  46. Ahem, check the author by freezin+fat+guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Coursey is a familiar open-source basher and well used to distorting the picture. He has even been quoted as saying that commercial software firms do the innovation while open source mostly copies. This myth has been well debunked before but in case you missed it consider MS and tell me:

    who "innovated" DOS, gui computing, windowed applications, mouse based ui, menus, word processor, spreadsheets, email client, address book, database... you get the picture. Such willful ignorance of the facts is quite staggering and makes for good reading/flaming.

    Which causes me to wonder if Coursey really believes what he writes or if he's just there to create reaction. eWeek has more than a few OSS fans and Coursey knows he's kicking the nest. Maybe he's just having fun?

  47. Maybe it's because it doesn't suit their needs. by 1shooter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ever try to get a non-postscript printer to work on Linux? Some work but many are nearly impossible to get working. What good is a free OS if you have to go out and buy a bunch of new printers. There are other issues but this is bigger than you think. Many offices still run on paper and if you cannot print then no matter how superior it may be in other ways, it is useless to them. I dislike Windows but nearly any old printer can be used effectively and until this problem is solved, Linux will have trouble penetrating that market.

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    6F 9E A9 1E 96 9F 74 27 ED B8 81 6D 0C 4E 1E 78
    My other Sig is a 229.
  48. Don't they mean $25M to $500M? by rve · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is a business with a turnover of about $200 million really considered a small business in the US?

  49. Re:They even tossed in calendaring.... in a survey by Saib0t · · Score: 2, Informative
    Let me share my "adventure" about calendaring with you...

    I'm IT manager for a a relatively small company, with 20ish salespeople on the road, trying to sell our (one shot) product. My company uses exclusively linux (SuSE 9) servers except for our accounting software, about 20 (yep, 20) of them. mail, printing, file sharing, firewalls, VPN, ...

    Well, we decided to outsource the appointment taking for our salespeople to another company and provide our salespeople with PDAs to sync with their calendars instantly because the less time they spend on the phone trying to get an appointment with customers, the more they sell, logical...

    So I went shopping for some linux distro that actually provided outlook connectivity (these damn PDAs don't have anything but outlook on them it seems).
    After being fooled by (SUSE) Novel OpenExchange and their advertised "Seamless integration" with Outlooks (from Outlook 98+, their website advertises), I had to come to the conclusion that there was seemingly no linux distro that provided that kind of functionality.

    My solution is now either to get one of these windows boxen with exchange on it or outsource the calendaring connectivity as well...

    This need of mine is a real need, and not just fancy wishes based on nothing but comfort as you seem to imply, after all our other 30ish employees are very happy with sunbird but in this case, it's not an option...

    Oh, and by the way, the "outlook connector" of Open-XChange works on about 50% of the windows XP machines, not all of them...

    These two aspects (accounting and calendaring) are the points that prevent me from providing linux on the desktop throughout the company, everyone already uses firefox, thunderbird, sunbird, OO.org(except for the odd excel thing openexchange can't handle). Linux is cool, but it's not yet fully ready for all my needs...

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    One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
  50. Misuse of "comprise" by SysKoll · · Score: 2
    Unfortunately, companies of this size comprise the bulk of American business.

    A side remark: "comprise" is a synonym of "include". The author means "companies of this size compose the bulk etc.". These latinates are not equivalent.

    You can say:

    • A set is composed of elements
    • A set comprises elements
    • A set is made of elements

    Don't say "is comprised of", which is to English what "Microsoft security" is decency. :-)

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    Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

  51. You won't get fired for it... by Brent_Edwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I heard a saying some time ago "You won't get fired for choosing IBM. I think you can easily say the same about Microsoft. Many managers deal with consistant problems, missed deadlines, etc and would get questioned to no end if they were using (publicly) a cheap (inexpensive) or free solution. In my experience managers would rather not take the risk of a cheaper solution having issues, and not having a clear direction to point a finger if something was to go wrong. I often hear things from my management like "Microsoft is helping us work through this issue", in reality it's not a Microsoft problem at all but it gets the manager off the hook.

    I have found the easiest way to get Linux into business is just do it, and do it quietly. It's very hard to say "Can't we do x with Linux?", but much easier to do it quietly then when the day comes up where a manager suggests a Microsoft solution to x you can say well we are already doing that with Linux and it's much cheaper (all costs considered) than the Microsoft solution. Try doing this the other way around and you will get shutdown 9 times out of 10.

  52. Re:They even tossed in calendaring.... in a survey by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you don't understand the email/calender relationship, then you don't understand even the most basic parts of it.

    Apart from the fact that people don't like having 5 or 6 apps running all the time and getting in the way (think alt-tab and having it cluttered with apps you have to run all day like email, calendering, etc.. to get full use out of them), email integration provides an eays way to invite and manage meetings.

    I create a meeting and email the invites to the attendees. They click a single button to add that meeting to their calendar if they accept, or to decline (automatically informing MY calendar that they declined). If I reschedule the meeting, then everyone is automatically sent out reconfirmations, which again get automatically updated when accepted or declined.

    With seperate calendaring, I have to manage the meetings (or assign someone to manage them). Integrated works much better.

  53. First hand knowledge... by Danathar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In my company ALL corporate IT software is Microsoft (even though the account I'm on is supporting UNIX/LINUX thank GOD!). The fact of the matter is, a major reason why people choose MS is the same reason people choose CISCO. Even if there is a catastrophic failure....viruses blast all the PC's, constant crashes. People DONT get fired because they chose Microsoft. They can pan the excuse..."Well...it's windows what do you expect?". Management shrugs it off because to admit that they made an error choosing ONE vendor for their entire IT infrastructure makes them look bad. Choosing LINUX means that if it were to fail they would get panned for taking risk. From an individual manager's perspective there IS no personal career risk from choosing Microsoft. If it breaks...well everybody uses microsoft so it's not his fault (mentality)

  54. Asking the right people? by pavera · · Score: 2, Informative

    They talked to "IT Managers", at my last job (a midsized company revenues of about 500m/yr) we had 20 servers in the racks, 10 were windows and 10 were linux, and we were migrating everything we could over to linux as quickly as possible, file servers, web servers, intranet, database, the only thing windows was still doing was print servering because our printers didn't have a reliable linux driver...

    Anyway, my point is that the IT Manager didn't have a clue what we were running. He said "Make x happen with $y". Often times (we're talking 99-01 here) the $y was prohibitively small to achieve anything with windows... IE, smaller than a single license for windows 2k server. So being good admins and programmers we figured out ways to make x happen without spending any money (or spending very little). This actually was well rewarded in the form of bonuses and stuff (the company was good about taking care of their people). If they called my old IT Manager he said "we're using windows" cause that's whats on his desktop, and he doesn't know the difference between samba, php, apache and windows, asp, and iis. He doesn't see the difference cause we did our jobs right.