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Major Aussie ISP Disconnecting Trojaned PCs
daria42 writes "Australia's largest ISP, Telstra BigPond, has started disconnecting customers that it suspects have excess traffic-causing trojans installed on their PCs. The trojans have been flooding BigPond's DNS servers and causing extremely slow DNS requests for around a month now. Despite nightly additions of DNS servers, BigPond appears to be unable to cope with the extra traffic on its network." Note that the article says the disconnections are temporary and accompanied by communication with the affected customers, not just a big yanking-of-carpet.
"Thank God"
"It's about Time"
"Glad somebody is finally taking an interesting in keeping the neighborhood cleaned up"
"Oh crap, is this the first chink in the armor, ISP's can disconnect people based on their traffic... Virus, Trojan, P2P, Torrent"
ISPs around the world have been doing this for a while now! I live in a house with 12 people and one person had a hijacked computer sending out mail and Adelphia cut us off. Although they never told us that they did (a quick call to customer support hooked us back up).
Seriously, why is this news?
I think my principles are reachin' an all time low
More ISPs should handle compromised computers this way. Just leaving them around to harm the internet for the rest of is is irresponsible.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
ISP has problems with boxes infected with malware. ISP identifies and blocks said boxes. Block is only temporary, and will be lifted when customers disinfect their boxes.....
Where's the story?
Right- I can smell a cake burning. Let's add more flour! Come on- more flour!
Oh- right- let's take the cake out the oven...Seems a sensible thing to do to me- tackle the computers causing the problems, rather than trying to react to the problem itself.
Although, tackling the writers of the infecting programs would be good too, if somewhat harder.These are drastic measures, but given the average BigPond user is much less a geek than anyone frequenting these parts, this will probably be the first time that most of these users will know about it, and given BigPond's previous problems with mail-servers, perhaps they're striking before the problem gets too out of hand.
Although I don't understand the purpose of a trojaned machine repeatedly hitting a DNS server, is this an attempt to cause an overflow and therefore making the DNS server itself vulnerable?
<? include ('signature.inc'); ?>
if BIGNUM% of PC's are malware-infested (I've heard 80% tossed around) and they get disconnected, suddenly anyone who's looking at their web logs will think that an unusually high number of Big Pond users are on Linux boxen, Macs, etc.
If more ISPs did this, maybe we'd see a decline in sites that only work in MSIE...
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
i think this is a good idea as well. I work in technical support, and the amount of infected machines i have to deal with is just phenomenal. Cutting of the machines access to internet both fixes the problem. The customer goes "WTF" and i say.. yea your machine is infected. Either install nix or go to a computer store. However its open to abuse... define excessive traffic.. and what traffic is malware or legitimate traffic. However... since a good 90 percent of spam comes from infected machines as well (go windows you good thing go) its all thumbs up from me.
Not all people pick up the phone and tolerate the script. Some people actually try to diagnose the problem first.
Most ISPs have language in their terms of service that permits this action. It is a shame that an ISP need to have their services almost knocked out before taking action.
I'd like to see some ISPs that ignore trojaned machines or support spammers get sued by other customers when their IP blocks end up on block lists.
Fight Spammers!
My isp (plus.net) monitors any communications on port 135 etc and if it dedicates any when your connected. You get redirected to a Plus.net you may have been effected with MSBlast page etc. And give you the links to tools to fix it.
Very handy indeed.
Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
All of these infected Windows boxes are killing the net. If ISPs would simply yank them as they show signs of infection (trojan, worms, etc) UNTIL the customers can demonstrate that they have taken care of problems, then things would be a lot easier.
Thats not to say it isn't impossible, but it wouldn't surprise me that taking a laptop/ipod/some other storage device big enough around to another friends house and getting all the updates is going to be beyond most people.
Also, last time I checked, I can't download all the updates that have been developed after XP SP2 was released from a machine running Windows 2000.
(side note: I'm on a 56k modem at home and therefore don't have a spare 3 weeks to get the several hundred megabytes of updates - and autopatcher xp hasn't been updated after sp2 was released)
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Dutch ISP Xs4All has been doing this for months/years, blocking all traffic (most notably SMTP) minus SSH and access to their HTTP proxy.
Lucky they're ringing up the user, because otherwise the user will just assume that they've been disconnected. Yet again. Bigpond is terrible with keeping it's users online (I'm talking broadband here), and believe that two to three disonnects per day is perfectly fine, even when those disconnects last for an hour or more.
I can see it now:
Customer: My broadband is down again.
Bigpond: Oh, I see. Well from time to time this does happen for a brief moment...
Customer: It's been down all day, and it's happened every day this week.
Bigpond: I see.. What's your account *clickety* Oh yes, we've marked you as a computer with a trojan. Please do a virus scan and call us back, if it comes back negative we'll re-connect you.
I'd go with someone else but they're the only broadband provider for my area. And I live in Sydney (the suburbs, an hour from the city itself)
Look, I ALL for ISP's disconnecting "polluting" PC's. They just better make damn sure its not legit traffic.
My ISP does exactly this, if it suspects trojan traffic it shuts you down (and snail mail you). You subsequently call the helpdesk, they ask what you did to resolve the matters (The ISP provides FREE anti-virus and firewall software). If they rae happy with your counter measures, theyll reconnect you in a jiffy.
If you can explain you have a legit reason to hit DNS 9765 times per second, I suspect they'll unlock you too.
I love it.
If Telestra is like any other large ISP I've seen, I figure that the first thing they should do is hire (or allocate) a good gaggle of AUP investigators so that their intelligence on this problem is reasonably real-time.
They could also write some scripts to log and categorize the DNS queries that they're getting from their customers. It should be fairly easy to automatically identify the worst offenders. You could then send notes to their owners, and if there's no reasonable response, pull the plug. Over the last few years, I think that I've written scripts to do pretty much everything but the last step, so I know it's doable. (that last step should almost always be manual).
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Aussie ISP Internode (one of the better alternatives to BigPond) deliberately block various types of malware (usually port blocking but other means have been employed such as IP blocking a client's IP) and an advisory is placed on the service status page indicating what is blocked and for how long.
LOAD ".SIG"
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE
Why not simply do a precise measurement (get the netflow from the router) and take actions based on correct data rather then guessing?
I for one wouldn't want to be cut off by my ISP because of someone at the ISP is guessing.
Attempting to strangle ADSL adoption, killing the national BBS community when the Internet first became mainstream in Australia in order to force adoption of Big Pond, and a host of other offenses meant that after an extended period of shopping around, I finally stopped using Telstra as a carrier completely last year, and they can now consider themselves permanently boycotted as far as I'm concerned. They are one of the most short-sighted, destructive, and generally amoral corporations I've heard of. They were also vocally criticised by Bill Gates during one of his visits here, for their strangulation of broadband adoption.
Apart from the above, to some degree there are now price incentives to use other carriers as well, particularly for voice. If you've got a credit card, you also might want to check out TPG for ADSL...they probably have the best deals I've seen.
NTL (UK cable provider) does this. They once started redirecting all HTTP requests from our home network to a page saying "You have netsky. Download this." or something. I had to try this with the Linux box before I believed this wasn't an attempt to distribute malware. Thing is, I checked all the Windows machines with NTL's tool and with Sophos AV, and they were all clean.
Other people with this problem have speculated that Linux machines (which NTL allows but "doesn't support") are sometimes mis-detected as Netsky-infected Windows PCs.
The moral is, if this sort of thing is going to become widespread, they need good detection of many different types of network usage, and they need to tell them by phone instead of just giving them what looks like a default-homepage highjack.
In a similar vein, remember MS marking VNC as spyware? Imagine if an ISP starts taking down VNC servers for the users own security, etc, etc.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Except on most Linux dists:
1). the default user is not an administrator
2). 99.9% of malware cannot run. If it did, then it'd cause minimal damage (see 1.)
3). There is no ActiveX
4). etc, etc, etc
The average Linux (non root) user can be as clueless as he/she likes and won't get into trouble.
When computers here (utwente.nl) are infected it is usually automatically detected, resulting in every webrequest going to "you're in quarantaine, you can download clean-up tools HERE, and when you're clean send us a message HERE. apart from that you can connect to nothing." If you're interested, it's run by the guys from http://snt.student.utwente.nl
I'm surprised it's taken them this long. When one of our customers gets infected with a virus / open proxy / etc... We *gasp* pay attention, shutdown their connection and immediately contact them and help them fix the problem.
It's amazing how quickly you can get your network under control doing this. And 9 times out of 10 the end user is greatful that you were willing to work with them to help them correct the problem.
Fixing infected machines on your network only makes the network a better place for everyone using it.
We've been doing this since the late 90's, what's "news" here? Customers get contacted in several ways, including personally by telephone. If they don't clean their open proxy/smtp relay/virus/worm after that, they get cut off. There'd be a lot less worms and spam around if all ISPs acted this responsibly, what a shame it's taken these guys until now to catch on.
I work for a phone company here in Oz, and among other things we resell Telstra ADSL.
I've seen Telstra claim that a customer on a 512/128 line (512kb/s down, 128kb/s up) uploaded 4GB in 20 hours. When I pointed out that this was impossible, they suggested that maybe the user's computer had been infected by a virus - and insisted that I check this before they would investigate.
I then spent some time explaining the concept of arithmetic to the Telstra support desk...
Send the effected customers (better yet, all customers) a CD with a free anti-virus, free anti-spyware, a free firewall, an alternative browser, and the latest updates for all of the above plus Windows and Office (including support for ME, NT, 2000, 98 SE, 98, and 95). With it include a letter explaining courtiously and simply why security is important. Sure, you'd probably have to get permission from a dozen different legal departments to do distribution of nominally free software on a wide scale like that, but some companies I know would jump at having their demo version shipped.
Back this up with your regular tech support. Yes, some users will be too clueless but a good deal won't. A fair percentage of the clueless ones will catch on quickly when their internet gets shut off and stays off. I can guarentee you the network traffic they'd get would drop to a third of the levels seen before.
Actually, in this perspective AOL's lackluster virus and spyware protection make perfect sense.
With most such set-ups your Internet connection is generally not totally blocked, just severely restricted. Any web request gets proxy-redirected to a page with instructions on how to clean your machine up, and download links from the ISPs local mirrors. Anything else is locked down.
I don't know if this is what bigpond are doing, but that's the usual way to handle this and it seems to work extremely well. My ISP uses a similar trick when users go over quota.
I don't think the ISPs quite thought this plan though. Users aren't going to be able clean up their computers without tools such as ad-aware and spybot search & destroy. These ppl probably don't even have a virus checker at all. The necessary software is freely avaliable online, but without a net connection these ppl will have to buy $100 of stuff at PC World. And that'll need updating online anyway.
A better idea would be to restrict bandwidth and connections on infected computers. The ISP should also post everyone they disconnect a CD with the usual free tools and instructions on how to use them. Along with Firefox and Thunderbird, of course.
I agree though, action should be taken against owners of zombie computers. They're irresponsibly spoiling the internet for others. Such users who think 'Internet Explorer' is the internet and believe the internet = the web.
While such ignorant users should be allowed to run computers in private, once they're connected to the internet, they become a danger to everyone else. The way I see it, I'm not allowed to drive a car on the road without first taking a test to make sure I can use it safely, and recognise and repair common problems (or at least take the car to the garage). This requires knowledge of both how the mechanics of the engine work, and of the highway code. So why are people who have never even seen the inside of computer and don't realise that connecting an unpatched WinXP box to broadband is as dangerous as speeding down a motorway in the opposite direction to all traffic, allowed to do exactly that?
Here at the University of Regina my roommate MachinationX had gotten a virus on his WinXP box (why didn't he have antivirus software?! he's an IT consultant!! but I digress) So our ISP (U of R computing services) not only disconnected him from the network, but refused to let him back on the network unless he agreed to give them his computer and let *them* run an antivirus scan on it , after which it would be returned. I happened to have some of my old backups on his machine at the time, but the point is that our ISP can not only watch your internet traffic(as they have been), but if you "get a virus" they can disconnect you and demand they have access to all your personal files at will.
Blows my mind.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
My ISP Netcologne disconnects PCs that are infected with trojans and try to infect others. The connection is interrupted and when the costumer tries to connect again he can only access one page, that shows an information. He can download Antivir there, too.
There are two restrictions: Netcologne certainly does not monitor all traffic - they react on abuse-messages. And this "service" is not available to business costumers.
My Employer, a large national Cable ISP in Britain routinely suspends service to customers due to nasties on the unsuspecting users PC. Our infrastructure runs daily scripts that scan for open mail proxies and other suspicious ports that may be open. It's just part of the normal security process.
However it never used to be, this aggressive step of securing our network was prompted by the ISP being threatened with a Usenet Death Penalty, twice.
Whether this BigPond story is any different (Because it deals with Trojans rather than mail relays) is another matter...
kill elrond
take elrond
put elrond in cupboard
The Business Class cablemodem accounts with Cox Communications are cut off if their security systems catch suspicious activity (DDOS packets, worm traffic, etc.) or open relays on your network connection. They're very polite about it, explain the problem and how to get it fixed. Their security department's not open after hours, either, so you're horked if you figure this out after midnight.
Haven't had to deal with their nice security people myself (No Windows or Linux or Sendmail here!), but I've laughed at colleagues who have. Mostly the same people who believe a $70/month cablemodem or DSL connection can replace their $800/month fiber line for serious webhosting enterprises.
SoupIsGood Food
Amateur radio operators, for example, have a responsibility to make sure their equipment is working properly, properly tuned, and operated without malicious intent so that it doesn't interfere with others.
So our ISP (U of R computing services) not only disconnected him from the network,
So you get your Internet feed through Uni computing services - noted.
but refused to let him back on the network unless he agreed to give them his computer and let *them* run an antivirus scan on it , after which it would be returned.
That's actually not a bad idea. They want to be sure that the system in question is no longer a problem. I'm sure you can see where a user would have motivation to lie about the scan if it would get him back on the network.
but the point is that our ISP can not only watch your internet traffic(as they have been), but if you "get a virus" they can disconnect you and demand they have access to all your personal files at will.
Blows my mind.
Re: watching traffic, disconnecting users - re-read the Terms of Service you signed when you accepted their Internet access; I suspect you will find they've had these capabilities all along.
However, your comment about demand... access to all your personal files at will is completely ridiculous.
First, computing services will only need to examine your PC if it causing a problem for other users; if things have gotten to this point you are either unable or unwilling to maintain the machine yourself and have effectively abdicated this responsibility.
Second, you probably already gave them permission to require such a scan when you agreed to the ToS (see above).
Third, who says your personal files have to remain on the machine if/when you turn it in for virus scanning?? Your roommate was told to deliver the computer; he can sanitize it before he does so. (This should be obvious.)
The University is not a commercial ISP. They provide the Internet access as a tool for you to use to further your education. It is a shared resource, and if you are causing problems they can rectify said problems as necessary based on the ToS. If you don't like their ToS you are free to go back to dial-up or pay for a T1.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
2. If they had any smarts at all, they'd still allow the client access to a whitelist of sites - windowsupdate, symantec, etc, as well as allowing them access to their own web/ftp sites to download fixes. If they don't, they're only doing a half-ass job of helping to fix the problem.
I agree with your post completely, but from TFA:
Another said: "I am having problems loading Web pages, I get the 404 [page not found] error. I have to retry five to 10 times to get some places."
I may be daft but I don't understand how a DNS or network capacity problem could cause a web server to respond with an explicit "404 File Not Found" HTML error. I could see a timeout, DNS error, or any number of other errors, but a 404 would mean literally that you contacted the web server, it was unable to find the specific file you requested, and it successfully reported that back to you.
Hopefully the forum poster that is quoted in the article just thinks every HTML error is a 404.
I'm a big tall mofo.
It's rare that an AC leaves a comment that can even see insightful, let alone actually contribute something. At least here in the US the phrase "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" would apply. Their network, their rules. If you go into a nightclub and start spewing feces on the other patrons, they don't refund your cover charge when they throw you out.
Deal with it, and clean up your fucking computer.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Except on most Linux dists:
1). the default user is not an administrator
Wait until Linux goes mainstream. Most people will just log in as root for normal activities to avoid the hassle of "su". After all, they don't have to bother with such annoyances under Windows. If they don't log in as root, they will happily supply the root password and/or click "OK" for any popup - just like on Windows.
The problem is that the average Joe has no idea how computers work, and they don't want to think about it. They will follow the path of least resistance to pr0n or pirated music without thinking about the consequences.
If God had meant for man to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day.
Granted, this is a regional ISP in BFE North Dakota but it still counts and ISPs have the right to do this. My M-I-L gets DSL in two weeks, should make for interesting times.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
I've worked for 3 ISP's in the midwest, and all of them have had no tolerance policies that allowed them to cut the customer off at the first sign of spam, trojan or virus activity. I personally have cut off dozens of accounts this way, and why not? People are responsible for their own machines, asking them to keep them cleaned up isn't unreasonable in my opinion. In fact, asking us to keep supplying service to them while their rogue systems flood the net with crap is a lot more unreasonable than that imo. This isn't like their bill is a day late or something, this is an active malicious atttack on the network, of course we aren't going to let it go on regardless of whether the customer is home to pick up the phone when we detect it. That's how it should be.
Sigs are awesome huh?
Really??
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Nothing stopping you from a setting up a local DNS server.
Unless this DNS server can connect to other DNS servers on port 53, having a DNS server isn't going to do you much good with respect to accessing the public Internet.
I really hate you "WHY IS THIS NEWS?!!!!" crybabies. It's news because this particular ISP is doing something which it previously was not. See how that works? Something HAPPENS, and then someone REPORTS that it happened, and then the story gets posted here because its subject matter appeals to a large portion of this site's readership. Are you so blindingly stupid as to actually need this explained to you? It's the fucking dictionary definition of news.
By the way, most ISPs still are NOT doing this. Time Warner's Road Runner, for instance, never even looks in the direction of a trojaned machine on their network - at least in my area.
This is not a liability issue,
This is like the ISP Road Department analogy from a story yesterday, The ISP is not so much checking the contents of passing cars on a highway for contraband.
This is more like the Highway department kicking cars off the road because their owners have allowed them to degrade to horse drawn carts and all the horseshit on the road is causing problems with slow traffic and time and money to clean up the mess, I say this is a good move.
I've had some phone calls lately from clients that were disconnected from Roger's Highspeed Cable becuase they were trojaned or mass mailing. After inspecting 3 systems, they were all infected with NetskyP and Bugbear.
Both were very easy to remove, I even used Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool (gasp) that was quick and easy. I wish they would kick all of these infected PC's offline and we wouldn't be dealing with these erratic spikes that have now made turned FPS gaming into a modem like affair.
I bet a few of the "free" antivirus companies, like AVP could make a killing sending out "AOL Like" demo cd's that cure the ails of all these banished network newbies.
But there are several other protocols for sending email that don't look like Port 25 to the ISP. There are a couple of SMTP-submission protocols which let you set up a connection to a mail server where you have an account and do various kinds of authentication, including some that use SSL encryption. Alternatively, you can do SSH or IPSEC or other VPN tunnels to your email provider. And then for us old folks, there's always "login to a shell account" :-) (Kids can use webmail instead.)
As far as email-over-telepathy goes, Dan Kaminsky recently demonstrated IP-over-DNS tunnelling at Codecon. It's really really evil - he was even able to do video-over-IP-over DNS by coopting about 25000 DNS servers. I'm pretty sure he was the guy who did a lot of the IP-over-HTTP tunnelling a couple of years back, and he;s done lots of other creative work with detailed protocol analysis.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I wonder after enough people get disconnected if they will switch to Linux.