Slashdot Mirror
Study Shows China Tightens Internet Filtering
Torrey Clark writes "China is the world's leading censor of the Internet, filtering web sites, blogs, e-mail, and online forums for sensitive political content, according to a study released Thursday. The OpenNet Initiative said that China employs thousands officials and private citizens to build a 'pervasive, sophisticated, and effective' system of Internet censorship. 'ONI sought to determine the degree to which China filters sites on topics that the Chinese government finds sensitive, and found that the state does so extensively,' said the study. 'Chinese citizens seeking access to Web sites containing content related to Taiwanese and Tibetan independence, Falun Gong, the Dalai Lama, the Tiananmen Square incident, opposition political parties, or a variety of anti-Communist movements will frequently find themselves blocked,' the report said."
Somebody had to say it.
Chinese people arent able to share back their tunes via bittorrent !!
Freedom is strength, Ignorance is peace, War is slavery.
As always, if anyone would like to support our development effort, please feel free to donate.
What happened to the Channel9 newspost?
-- brought to you by the "No-shit-sherlock" department.
Sounds like they block everything but spam.
In America we are given the righ to free speach. And this is actually a dangious right to have. Free Speach can give ideas that people will miss interpreate and twist around, or give them ideas that could be harmful to society. It is a risk that us westerners take for advantage. But other cultures see it as a danger and feel that they should limit speach thus reducing the risk. It it two sides of a simular issue. Do you take the risk of free speach or help control the risk with censored information. I feel that free speach is a good idea because it will lead to growth vs keeping the same. But the risk is always there.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
...how well these filters will really work. From what I understand, it's pretty hard to make a good filter that blocks what you want while leaving what you don't unblocked. Then again, I'm sure China wouldn't mind blocking too much, and would err on the side of blocking too many things.
I find it interesting how the Chinese government is all up in arms about Japan rewriting their history books, yet censors controversial Chinese history (e.g. Tiananmen Square) as well as current events (e.g. Taiwan and Tibet).
Granted the Japanese is almost rewriting history as oppposed to censoring it completely, but I believe the fundamental mentality is the same.
I don't know why they don't just have their own internet, why have any gateways to the rest of the world at all?
They have a population large enough to support it, and that way, if there's stuff they don't like, they have someone to drag out of his bed and murder in front of his children in the middle of the night.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
There are tons of anon proxies people can connect to to mask what sites they're going to. I'm sure the tech-savy are just using one them and surfing anyway.... The only way around that is to block all access to all ip ranges outside China's blocks.
Its a means to control the people without polarizing them and without causing a revolt.
This is my last post.
[6th Estate]
As sad as it is, with everything that China has done, the world would significantly rather have China playing a global leadership role than America (their top pick, however, was France). That's how far things have degenerated...
Margaret Thatcher died the other day. It was a sad day, but I like to think that she's looking up at us right now."
It's good to see China gets most favored nation trading status. After all, a country that represses its own citizen to the point of shooting them en masse and trying to cover it up, censoring internet access, and killing off political opponents deserves our respect and trade.
Especially when that trade costs many American workers their jobs, and results in a massive trade deficit that's only good for China, American executives, and their puppet politicians.
Must be the whole "culture of life" thing at work.
Chinese Content Filtering Service is Most Effective in World.
Dateline - BizarroWorld.
A new study, released today, has confirmed that Chinese content filtering technology is the most effective in the world. Despite the early entry of many US companies into this market, the Chinese have come from behind and have surpassed all US efforts. Film at eleven.
How else would they support their thriving piracy industry? Think before you type in future!
Why stop there? Why not just ban all forms of media, as it has to censor them too? But then the citizens could start talking and who knows what they'll talk about. Let's ban people from China too.
China has to balance its modernizing cities and urban population with its authoritarian communism. It's a fine line. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I understand.
Hmm...
Mod down or comment?
Mod down or comment?
Commenting!
Because... it would affect their economic growth?
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
The study describes the filtering as "effectcive," but then points out that most American media, human rights, and anonymizer sites are still reachable. Given those apparently contradictory statements:
1. Is the filtering truly effective, or only the most effective filtering currently in use?
2. How long can the government of China sustain this level of filtering before it either shuts off most of the Internet to its citizens or has to give it up as unmanageble?
3. How long will it be before some politician or group in the U.S. will attempt to impose the "effective" Chinese filtering system here?
TLR
A man no more knows his destiny than a tea leaf knows the history of the East India Company
China employs thousands officials and private citizens to build a 'pervasive, sophisticated, and effective' system of Internet censorship.
but it seems to me that there is a chink in their armor here. how does the government determine who is allowed to determine what is allowed to be viewed? employing thousands of people for the task of limiting the viewing capabilities of all the others doesn't seem very effective to me. what's stopping any one, or more, of them from building in a backdoor for themselves? from visiting "dangerous" sites? i'm sure there are very strict, probably painful, penalties for such actions, but it comes back to the question brought up earlier: qui custodiet ipsos custodes?
The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
-Oscar Wilde
Whats the penalty for getting around the filters?
Im going to hazard a guess its not a small fine and a warning..
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
While I don't applaud the Bush administration's actions on censorship, I think it's still important to keep in mind that we have it much better than some places (China being just one example).
One should not become so cynical as to completely forget the good things about our form of government and the freedoms it provides. There are legitimate concerns regarding control of some information (trade secrets, confidential personal data, illegal material, national security concerns, etc.). The oft promulgated worldview that all information should be free (as in speech) is simply not a rational one.
Only the criminals will have information.
This whole thing must be a conspiracy by the Chinese Mafia to give their members a better chance at "Who wants to be a Chinese Millionaire"
What's with the department that submitted this being called the "not-that-any-chinese-people-will-see-this" dept? I'm chinese in insensitive clod! I just happen to live in Canada.
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
China opposes individuals rights, suppresses free speech and attempts to rewrite history. I'm shocked, just shocked.
Despite conventional wisdom, though, ONI found that most major American media sites, such as CNN, MSNBC, and ABC, are generally available in China (though the BBC remains blocked).
Another proof (if needed) of the total uselessness of american corporate media.
China's dictatorial government doesn't even see them as a threat... Sleep tight america.
They have a population large enough to support it, and that way, if there's stuff they don't like, they have someone to drag out of his bed and murder in front of his children in the middle of the night.
This is what I was thinking. France had their own internet before anyone else. I believe it was government owned. People used it for purposes the government approved, you could find out what was playing at the local theater and the like.
China is a HUGE country. They could easily have thier own intranet. Ban the internet. Then they would control content like they did with newspapers and other forms of media.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Maybe because they're sick of being 40 years behind the rest of the world?
I guess that just goes to show that the world is dumb, or perhaps greedy.
A small, efficient, uncorrupt, open minded country like the Netherlands or something seems like a much better bet.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I know that not all the content the Chinese censors need to filter is in Chinese, but this report made me wonder... how would applying filters to a logographic language such as Chinese differ from filtering content in Western language systems?
It seems like it would be a lot easier to block an idea if it were represented by a unique character than by a set of phonemes that could easily be 0bfu5cat3d without losing meaning. Does a language like Chinese generally lend itself better to computerized manipulation?
perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
How ervasive and effective can a system be when you are paying people to review it. There are 3 problems that spring to mind.
1) Doesn't it defeat the purpose of hiding something when you pay thousands of people to read it?
2) How effective can any system that relies on human judgement be?
3) What's to stop a small dedicated group of people from letting a few "un-authorized" pages slip through the cracks.
"Freedom of speech has always been the abstract red-headed stepchild of the Constitution"
-Suck
I am sure they can get to Walmart.com
But, General Tsao makes better chicken than Colonel Sanders.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
For those who don't know much about Falun Gong. Here is a link to an interview with Li Hongzhi (the leader of Falun Gong) by Time in 1999 (just before Fa Lungong was banned in China). The following conversation on the 3rd page is particularly entertaining:
TIME: Where do they(the aliens) come from?Li: The aliens come from other planets. The names that I use for these planets are different . Some are from dimensions that human beings have not yet discovered. The key is how they have corrupted mankind. Everyone knows that from the beginning until now, there has never been a development of culture like today. Although it has been several thousand years, it has never been like now.
The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.
The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings.
When such people grow up, they will help replace humans with aliens. They will produce more and more clones. There will no longer be humans reproduced by humans. They will act like humans, but they will introduce legislation to stop human reproduction.
TIME: Are you a human being?
Li: You can think of me as a human being.
TIME: Are you from earth?
Li: I don't wish to talk about myself at a higher level. People wouldn't understand it.
TIME: What are the aliens after?
Li: The aliens use many methods to keep people from freeing themselves from manipulation. They make earthlings have wars and conflicts, and develop weapons using science, which makes mankind more dependent on advanced science and technology. In this way, the aliens will be able to introduce their stuff and make the preparations for replacing human beings. The military industry leads other industries such as computers and electronics.
TIME: But what is the alien purpose?
Li: The human body is the most perfect in the universe. It is the most perfect form. The aliens want the human body.
TIME: What do aliens look like?
Li: Some look similar to human beings. U.S. technology has already detected some aliens. The difference between aliens can be quite enormous.
TIME: Can you describe it?
Li: You don't want to have that kind of thought in your mind.
TIME: Describe them anyway.
Li: One type looks like a human, but has a nose that is made of bone. Others look like ghosts. At first they thought that I was trying to help them. Now they now that I am sweeping them away.,
Obviously he was inspired by The Alien, Man In Black, Species, and Matrix.
A small country in a global leadership position? Right. How are they supposed to cajole countries like North Korea, China, India and the US to get along?
Global leadership roles, like other leadership roles, should be filled by those with power, not because it's right, but because it would be effective. The EU has significant economic power, and the EU is led by France and Germany, not Netherlands.
Yeah, the world is dumb.
They really need a FOX News affiliate over there to convince them that up is really down...
-- Fratz, human
I wish they'd just block port 25 outbound... blocking inbound connections to port 25 on my mailserver from Chinese address space caused a non-insignificant drop in the amount of spam I receive.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
There are also other end-user (working) anonymous-p2p programs such as:
The site Anonymous-p2p.org has a good list of anonymous p2p programs as well.
That would be a great way to get rid of them.
"Play nice with the other children or POOF! No one will ever be able to visit your site again."
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Is shashdot censored in China?
-Palal
Insightful?
Americans gloss-over cowboys genociding 20,000,000 native Americans over 20 or so years
This is the myth passed around by europeans and arabs as a way to justify their own atrocities.
From the Indian Wars wiki
"citing figures from a 1894 estimate by the United States Census Bureau, one scholar has noted that the more than 40 Indian wars from 1775 to 1890 reportedly claimed the lives of some 45,000 Indians and 19,000 whites.1 This rough estimate includes women and children, since noncombatants were often killed in frontier warfare"
The Chinese government is in an interesting state of duality now. They know the Internet is useful, just like they know capitalism is useful. However they still want to retain the control and power they've always enjoyed. So it's an interesting balance of allowing new economic and informational freedoms, but restricting them at the same time.
I'd argue it's not all bad, in that capitalism and freedom aren't something people just know how to deal with inherantly. For two good examples see Russia and Iraq.
In Russia, the country basically had capitalism thrust on them in a very short time. It has lead to chaos, massive economic problems, and rampant crime. The people didn't know hoe to set up a functioning capitalism, nobody told them how. Forever the state, (receantly communists, before that aristocracy) had told them what to do and how to do it, now there was nothing. Russia is STILL coping with these problems, and there isn't an end in sight.
In Iraq the people had freedom thrust on them in a very short time. They went from fearing being killed for pissing off the government in any way to being free to do nearly anything they wanted. The problem is that freedom has to have some limits in society. Well there are some, like the insurgents, that freedom means they should be free to impose their will on others, through violence if they want.
Now don't get me wrong, I certianly don't support China's human rights abuses or anything like that, but just because they aren't going full bore for free information and markets isn't necessiarly a bad thing. Rapid transitions can be a dangerous thing and cause all kinds of problems.
So China knows the Internet and it's free flow of information is a good thing, however at this point they don't want it to be completely unrestricted, for better or worse.
ok, first off id like to start by saying...
[this post has been filterd to remove all useful content...]
and secondly,
[this post has been filterd to remove all useful content...]
so you see, this is why we must rise up and welcome our new [this post has been filterd to remove all useful content...] overlords!
Noone writes jokes in base 13!
As many gripes as I have with America (and they are many), it's amazing how much better off we are than China. But I guess it's to be expected the the US (and now the EU) are willing to overlook all levels of repression for economic gain.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
China treats the rest of the world a lot better than it treats its citizens. And, for what it's worth (not that I'm saying it's much), pre-emptive military action is more or less prohibited by their constitution. Considering our recent track record and international arrogance, this is something of an understandable position, pragmatically speaking.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
perhaps all the hackers and open source people should focus on china and wage a digital war against China until they give up this mockery of chaining the web.
Is it really effective at all? How much stuff can you block? Isn't that similar as junk-mail filter software/gateway? I've seen mainlanders posts political diatribe on taiwan p0rn-picture posting web sites.
Maybe you forgot that the Japanese were actually the losers in WWII.
Especially slavery, segregation and so on. Many are quick to point out country where 1st rate citizen and second rate citizen exists, but rather forget the tiny little bit about slavery and segragation later.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I'm interested. Does Canada have some deep dark secrets? Have they done anything on par in fucked-upness to the acts the parent mentioned? (Not being sarcastic, I'm truly curious).
After all, no one expects the Canadian Inquisition!
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Believe it or not, China's like other places in the world and a big chunk of economy is driven by the internet. Check out places like globalsources.com - that's how we get cheap electronics and dollar-store stuff so fast so cheap.
Jobs (read: manufacturing) have been moving over seas since the 80's. The only difference is the exportation has moved to a different sector.
Its easier to trust 1,000,000,000 people in a surveilance system where 1,000 people are potentially corrupted but the 'good work' goes on.
And don't forget you never know who is watching you but you KNOW some one is because you're doing the same thing to other randomly selected watchers.
"Quid custodes ipso custodes? Omnia!"
Who will watch the watchers? Everybody!
They are putting 1 person in 1,000,000 at potential risk and they are minigating that risk by putting the same people on surveilance of each other.
Brilliant solution, if a bit man-power intensive. But they have the man-power to throw at the problem.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
US companies Cisco and Goggle were both named in a Washington Post article as being duplicious in aiding the Chinese governments efforts to censor the internet. Although it states the study does not mention either company and both companies have denied aiding the Chinese government it still begs the question whether US companies, especially, Goggle, would put profit ahead of freedom of speech. It harks back to the business done between companies from both sides during WWII.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Further reason to expand our militery. If the rest of the world wants to turn in to a slimepit devoid of morals and what is pure in this world, we may need our militery to ensure freedom in our country. ...that is if it doesn't already errode from within itself.
Maybe there is nothing we can do to avoid WW3. Maybe the human race will always be at war regardless of what logic says right in our faces about oppression and freedom.
The fact the world trust China over US is a perfect example. It's like watching a cannery slowly die in a coal mine. That is to say, there is a major problem here, and it's NOT because of the US. Rather, just illogical fear from the rest of the world toward us.
Life is not for the lazy.
Whatever happened to reasoned thought? I don't support China violating the rights of its citizens but I saturation bombing and puppet revolutions as a longterm solution to a problem either
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
What do you read? Definitely not slashdot. Pretty much every comment here doesn't do anything other bashing China. What, you want the slashdot logo to be turned into a picture of man spitting on a burning chinese flag?
It's called Minitel, and I wouldn't really call it an "internet" because it was really a number of dumb terminals attached to a powerful mainframe.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
What frightens me is that all this filtering and only exposing their people to information that the government wants them to hear turns it's citizens into zombies. I have seen my dad go wanting china to leave Taiwan alone to thinking that china is good for Taiwan. This change in thinking happened after he bought a condo in shanghai and lived there for a good many months. It also bothers me that he claims that there is no Internet filtering going on at all. It's really creepy, two years ago my dad hated china. Now he loves them. This is probably the desired effect though. Also a lot of people that I have talked to in china find it almost insulting to think of Taiwan as independent.
This message was brought to you by the death of 30 brain cells.
It would be so much better if China wouldn't censor all this crap. Sure, their retarded Communist government will fall apart within a decade, but so what? A Republic that is based on human freedom is going to be so much better for the world, not only because individuals will enjoy more freedoms, but also because the Chinese currency will become subject to the same market forces as other currencies around the world, which will increase the Chinese standard of living to a significantly higher level than it currently is.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Spam is not information. Spam is unsolicited bulk email. The information disseminated through spam could be put on a webpage or emailed to subscribers only, and it wouldn't be spam. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with cramming speech down people's throats.
*POOF*
(Somewhere in China)
Nerd: "HEY Where did Slashdot go?"
Official: "No such thing, No Slashdot! now come with me to slave labor prison work camp, where we make toxic toys for American children!"
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
Is there a one can try it out? It can be pretty intresting for someone living out of china to check what it is like.
:).
Some kind of chinese proxy maybe that follows the rules from the chinese goverment?
P.S Yep, it is in our blood. If we're not oppressed, than we have to know what it is like.
In America we are given the righ to free speach. And this is actually a dangious right to have. Free Speach can give ideas that people will miss interpreate and twist around, or give them ideas that could be harmful to society.
You must recognize that the concept of "that which is harmful to society" is equivalent to "that which is immoral."
Given that, you must agree with me that free speech gives people the right to have immoral thoughts.
But who is the arbiter of what is a moral thought and what is an immoral thought? Christians think that my talking about gay rights is an immoral thought. I think that Christians' belief in superstition and mysticism is immoral. The fact is that everyone defines for themselves which thoughts are moral and which are not. The whole purpose behind free speech is that everyone opines but does not know which thoughts are immoral and moral, so let people think and say what they want and limit the prohibitive powers of government to only those actions which deprive individuals of life, liberty, or property. You don't have the right to not be offended.
Due to this, people will say things that you think are evil and they have a right to say them. I say that I do not believe in god and people get hopping mad. I say that I do not think AIDS is a single disease caused by a pathogen and people get really fsking, fist-shaking, screaming mad. The right to free speech protects me in these cases, just like it protects you when you say that "free speech is a dangerous right," which makes me a little hot under the collar.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Censorship and Propoganda work hand in hand. You have to give people the impression that the truth is available to them - while simultaneously handling them falsehood - and filtering dissent. The average internet user in China could very well assume that they have access everything they need about the truth. Hey...they could call the Chinese Ministry of The Internet the Ministry of Truth...!
Much less easy to make an entire populace understand, and live by. I mean freedom and necessary limits seems a real obvious thing to those of us lucky enough to grow up in countries that have it, but it's a more delicate balance than you think.
In the case of the middle east, it's further confounded by religious leaders who hold very strong sway. Many believe that it is necessary to implement a harsh religious law to save people from themselves, that freedom in this life leads to torment in the next. So they believe they ARE doing the right thing by limiting freedoms.
At any rate, point is that when you suddenly tell a people "You are free" many of them don't know what to do with it.
You mean like the entire economic policy of the Chinese government for the last 15 years:)?
The high pitched noise you hear is Marx is spinning in his grave because he heard how present day China represents the fulfillment of his vision for a workers' paradise:)
"Provided by the management for your protection."
You're being sarcastic, right?
Erm, there is a major problem, and it's to do with attitudes like yours.
Ever wondered why the rest of the world treats the US as a threat? It's because when Americans get in a group known as 'Government', they become obsessive patriots who cannot see beyond the US borders and the "might" of the "god-blessed stars and stripes" of the "noble country" that is the USA.
The fear is perfectly logical, no other country thinks they have the right to rule the world, and no other country to my knowledge has such a background of being generally self-righteous assholes.
Not to say that Americans aren't fine, some of my best friends are American. It's just when you get in groups you suddenly become completely immune to common sense.
I trust China over the US, at least they're open and efficient about censorship. The US needs 14 think-tanks, 3 government surveys, 12 months, $250,000 and a lot of secrecy to censor anything. Unless someone says it's going to "harm the children", in which case it's deal with in 2 days despite evidence to the contrary.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Rob Gifford, who is the NPR correspondent in China (and speaks Chinese) did a segment on the impact of the internet (I forget if it was on Morning Edition or All Things Considered).
He said it is having an absolutely revolutionary impact in terms of people being able to like up with other people, also businesses. China is a traditional society, so you could only contact people though your kinship network. Now everyone can get together with everyone.
Another thing I have heard a lot is there is a huge impact on internal politics. People are communicting about corrupt officials, environmental degradation, government waste, and other relevant topics. An example from last year is there was a huge explosion at an elementary school. It turned out the principal had all the student working making fireworks.
Normally the principal would have just paid off the mayor and that would have been the end of it. Instead, the people in the town communicated by e-mail, set up a web site, printed out flyers, and notified the national media. There was a huge national scandal, and the principal went to jail.
What is happening, then, is that the internet is helping democracy in China develop from the inside. The Chinese don't need to learn about it from the West, they just know they want a clear, responsible, effective government.
Indeed... good ol' Christopher Columbus himself was known to have massacred and/or enslaved people of various non-caucasian races. However, according to most of what you would learn in school, he's a hero for "discovering" America.
Anyone actually in China at the moment who can access slashdot, or is it blocked?
Here was the original post he made before it went through the filter:
They filter everything. I've lived in China for the past 10 years and I can tell you that the American government/media is telling you the truth.
Oh God! Someone's breaking down my front door!
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
As human beings, we create our rights through our association with society. Whether or not people have some kind of inherent right to information is irrelevant. What is relevant is that as humans we have the power to stand up against tyranny.
It's important not to confuse this with the right to stand up against tyranny. There is nothing God-given about rights, and I believe that to make information free is the morally right thing to do, even if it is not a state right.
My point is, if the law is wrong, and you have the power to break it, and you can avoid getting caught, then law be damned. All this talk about having the right to do something is giving law divine status.
Of course, if the law is good and just then there are other reasons why you shouldn't break it.
I wish they'd block my sites, so I wouldn't have to deal with comment spam from China. I end up blocking almost all Chinese ISPs in my .htaccess every time someone there spams me. It would save me a lot of work if they simply added my sites to their block list.
Everyone complains about China and other asian countries, yet no one says anything about the filtering in the united arab emirates, saudi arabia, yemen, sudan, egypt etc. All those middle eastern and african counties. Perhaps its because most of the countries supply oil? Their human rights records are abysmal, and their internet censorship, media black outs, and press restrictions are far worse than China. Yet it's China this and China that. There is no need to defend China, but at least be fair about the criticism, and criticise proportionally to the level of injustice. Those countries listed in this paragraph deserve far more criticism and attention from the media in our world than China.
I'm partriotic, yes. But I'm not a condecending asshole that you make me out to be.
The fact you trust China over the US is pure insanity. That said, you must think that tiananmen square, the support for N. Korea in vitnam, the threat of invading invading and inforce the athoriterian rule over Taiwan.
But that's ok right? Because anything China did is still better then what the US has done.
And you got modded up? Why does this not supprise me?
Life is not for the lazy.
Why mod it down? What's the point to modding it down? I hate when people mod down pointlessly. The guy asks a valid a question and ponders an interesting thought, and you want to mod it down? I guess you're one of those censorship mods, that thinks other people shouldn't see the ideas you disagree with it. That type of thinking has a striking parallel with the subject matter. :-)
Actually, I meant to comment all along. The "mod down or comment" thing was meant to be humorous. In retrospect it wasn't very funny and it was rather rude.
He probably meant it as an honest question. I wish I had been a little nicer about it.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Well if power is the be-all, end-all criteria, then there's really no choice, unless two countries happen to be neck and neck for the top spot (Russia and USA, most recently).
Right now, the USA is IT, power-wise. Both the EU and China have the potential to catch up rapidly, and maybe India eventually. Presently, the EU would probably be the most trustworthy of the lot, though that may not remain so for long.
Potentially power could be exercised via the UN, which would allow people from small countries to hold the secretary general position.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Did you actually read what he wrote ? :1 us:0
:1
The us is lying - the chinese is open/telling the thruth. chineese
The chineese goverment is evil. The us goverment is evil. us:0 chineese
So yes i trust the chineese more.
That being said my pick as world leader would be iceland.
Freedom or George Bush
So-called "effective filtering" is really the second cousin twice-removed of exhorbitant fees that chinese ISPs charge to access foreign websites. Nothing is more effective than to render access too expensive for the common citizen.
with CCTV, Rimen Ribao (People's daily), China Daily, People's daily online, etc., they definitely have the fox news angle covered, and then some.
...and results in a massive trade deficit that's only good for China, American executives, and their puppet politicians.
It's also good for all those Walmart shoppers who vote for them.
What?
I have a couple of friends who work for companies based in China. One makes textiles and the other plastic toys. The manufacturing is all done there, however the IT and business software is developed here. From what I hear, its quite trivial to bypass that firewall. All you need to know is the right person and the right price, and you can have all the unfettered access you want. Of course two examples doesnt prove the fact, but I am sure a lot of companies engage in such tactics. The end result is that the comman man is screwed , as always.
However I do wonder how multinationals operating in China, make sure that there data and IP (I know, I know.. but there is more to IP than just software, music, movies and books) developed in China is not pirated off by some admin being paid crap? I guess if you are Walmart you could bribe your way through it and not even notice it (also given the ethics of Walmart I wouldnt put it past them), but you would also present a target ten times the size of the proverbial barn.
Moreover no matter, how effective the firewall, there really is no way to prevent information from seeping through one way or another. One key to the seepage is right here: "China employs thousands officials and private citizens to build". All it takes is one disgruntled guy. And I bet there are hundreds of those in the IT army managing the firewall, no matter what the consequences. And information has always been the key. I believe that its this seepage of information that will be the key to a more free China. Maybe I am being optimistic but having seen the effects of availability of information in rural India, which is just as badly economically exploited in India as in China (human rights, thankfully not as badly though), I have some reason to be.
I think Communism is OK as long as participation in Communism is voluntary. I should be able to make a free and voluntary choice to join a communist society and, likewise, I should be able to make a free and voluntary choice to leave a communist society. Do you agree?
That sucks doesn't it. Doesn't help the fact that many corporations in America are looking towards the Chinese as a huge market to tap.
China may be doing all that crap, but if the U.S. were serious, well, they would put the money aside rather than see the $$$ that the millions upon millions of potential chinese customers would bring.
It sucks.
suteki!
Efficient, open minded? Bwahahahahahaaaaa!
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Just got back from Shanghai. I noticed, rather tripped over, two forms of censorship. www.google.ca was rerouted to www.google.cn, and groklaw.net gave an infinite wait. I know that Groklaw wasn't down because using a Canadian proxy fixed the problem. Several tries over a week convinced me it wasn't a random fault.
Weird that they would consider Groklaw subversive, given that Darl says it's a Pinko site.
Wrong, totally incorrect. It was the ACLU that joined with Limbaugh. Limbaugh NEVER asked for help from the ACLU. That said however, Rush agreed when the ACLU offered the help.
Speaking of Rush Limbaugh. Sight just one topic he spoke of that you do not agree with and why? Or do you not listen, but rather just a mindless drone that talks smack about nothing you know of?
Life is not for the lazy.
what's wrong with saturation bombing? It makes such pretty videos! http://www.militaryvideos.net/www.militaryvideos.n et
among others...
The:
AC-130 gunship mission in Afghanistan
was stellar!
The muisc vids were pretty good too..
Rock on!
If I add information unfavorable to the Chinese government to my web sites will spam sent from China be blocked? ;)
Due to the vast number of Falun Gong practitioners in the world (over 100 million) I think that the largest reason for this censorship is because the number of these people (who attempt to align themselves with truthfulness, compassion, and forebearance) grew so fast in China that they outnumbered the members of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and since Falun Gong practitioners are not interested in politics, the CCP considered this a threat.
This censorship by China has taken it's most cruel form in the sense that (and this is a FACT) there is currently PERSECUTION going on in China, and it is extending outside of China. The CCP is even trying to make moves on pracitioners here in the U.S. but OUR government won't allow them to.
How long must we be a victim of fate and circumstance?
As long as it takes to change our minds.
Okay... 100% Access Back Open Again
Oops! Nooooooooooo They Blocked Port 1701!
I want to know what this orgy over China is all about? It seems too many of the enlightened class of the world believe that if act all "nice nice" with China that that will somehow reform them.
NOT!
China is playing countries off on each other to great effect. They are setting the stage to walk all over Taiwan. They will get it to the point that the EU will probably actively prevent the US from exercising their promise to protect this island country.
China sits there and violates most things that both the EU and the US find offensive yet all the EU and US can do is bicker about each other. They both bend over backwards to accomodate China.
What will it take? Execution of thousands who find a way to protest during the Olympics? China alreay executes thousands each year! How about destruction of Taiwan? Will that be allowed? When will that occur? Before or after the Olympics.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Is Gmail POP access blocked in China? I know someone that's having trouble accessing Gmail through the POP server, and I'm wondering if it's just him, or if it's blocked there.
And don't forget you never know who is watching you but you KNOW some one is because you're doing the same thing to other randomly selected watchers.
Have you metamoderated recently?
In the words of The One Who Shouldn't Be Named:
BRING IT ON!
No.
We already have more or less all information laying around, and the sky is not looking like it'd be about to fall. The spam is mildly annoying, the anti-porn people are more annoying than porn spam, and the bombs? Well, whoever didn't sleep through their high-school chemistry and physics classes does not need the Internet to build one anyway.
So where is the problem?
Uh huh. That's why there's all these open proxies out there set up for the express puprose of letting Chinese citizens access forbidden sites. Any government that fears its citizens that much is pathetic beyond all reckoning.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"China employs thousands officials and private citizens"
Is there such a thing as a "private citizen" in the People's Republic?
Especially when that trade costs many American workers their jobs, and results in a massive trade deficit that's only good for China, American executives, and their puppet politicians.
Be careful what you wish for because you may actually receive it. The road of trade isolationism and protectionism leads to lazy non-competitive domestic firms which produce low quality goods and services at very high prices because they are shielded by law from foreign competition through tariffs, quotas, subsidies and the like. Experience has show this to be true time and again all over the world (India, Latin America, Britain) The problem with free trade is that the benefits are not very tangible to the average citizen in the short run, but any job loss which can be even remotely connected with free trade is. People are quick to blame their problems on free trade, but are they really willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for clothing, household goods, and other common purchases simply because they were made entirely here in the United States? The truth is that without free trade many Americans would still be living in desperately poor conditions, unable to afford even the most basic consumer goods because of the high costs of domestic production. Wal-Mart has its problems to be sure, but it is a Godsend to many lower income Americans because it provides reasonable quality goods at reasonable prices that would otherwise be unaffordable to them. There is a balance of interests of course, but the next time you feel like knocking free trade think about what your life might be like without it.
OK, how many of those countries you listed are expansionist totalitarian states with nuclear arsenal? How many are not just threatening but planning to attack a democratic state? How many are occupying their neighbouring peoples and destroying their national identity, language and religion while ripping off their natural resources? How many are actively agitating their population to hate and blame foreigners for practically every social ill of their own totalitarian making?
Only Russia gets anywhere close to China in terms of crimes committed against neighbouring and "minority" peoples while being totally unapologetic about them.
Many countries in the Middle East and Africa have significant human rights problems indeed, but I believe your prioritizing between domestic social ills based on history and traditions versus unapologetic imperialist aggression against neighbors is simply way off. It is one thing to suffer from anachronistic local leaders and another altogether to be under ruthless foreign occupation aiming to wipe your nation off this planet.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
...as long as they pick the right targets
Sendou Wave Kick!!
Yes. Of course, no one else can be forcibly compelled to create an alternative for you. That's up to you.
Ahh... sorry, I forgot that the US single-handedly saved the known universe, a lone American won the Battle of Britain, and that every single event in both world wars comprised entirely of American troops. Hollywood lies.
Anyway, I never said the US was ruling the world, merely that no other nation (to my knowledge) currently believes that there are WMD (I still have seen no evidence) hidden in every 3rd world country, the US system of democracy is perfect, and that Japan and Korea pose massive threats to world security. Korea possibly, but Japan? Come on.
The US was responsible for a lot of the origins of WW2, giving in to mostly french (but some british) demands for the Treaty of Versailles then led to serious economic turmoil in Germany. US loans helped, but then the Wall Street Crash called the loans back in and sent Germany into a downward spiral leading to WW2.
Calling the UK "your fucking little nation" does not do great things for the overall impression of US citizens. Our "shitty little democracy" has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the US's half-baked attempt, and your billions of dollars of help? Really? I thought Germany was forced to pay it all (Check the history).
I don't actually know what the US is doing right now with regards to protecting Europe. 'Son of Star Wars'? Yeah, thought so.
Taking care of "some stupid 3rd world dictator", whilst still being a good thing, is technically illegal. You went in because of weapons of mass destruction (And some of the UK followed, along with stragglers from everywhere else) and so far I have seen a sum total of zero evidence. Not zero weapons, zero *evidence*.
Endangering my life... lets think. Keeping the world's largest stock of nuclear warheads for 'peaceful' reasons? Perhaps generating the largest amount of pollution in the world (per $ of GDP, so you can't play "but the US is a big place" arguments).
What so fucking bad are you doing that deserves that sort of bullshit? Thinking you saved the entire world from itself and it is the God-given duty of the mighty US of A to protect all that is honourable, free and democratic in this world!
Think about it for a second.
Nice pancakes though, I'll give you that.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
According to CitizenLab the US is the greatest censor of information at the state level, and the software many countries use to censor information is producted and marketted in the US. Shouldn't we be looking in our own backyards first?
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1369118X.2013.808365
"Calling out the mods is flamebait. "
No it's not. Face your accuser, etc.
Far be it from anyone to question the conclusions of the world-famous citizenlab.org