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DMCA Prevents Photoshop Support of Nikon Camera

Will writes "PhotoshopNews.com reports that the risk of getting sued under the DMCA prevents Adobe from fully supporting the raw file format of Nikon's top professional camera Nikon D2X. The file format contains encrypted white balance information that is necessary to render the image correctly and while the encryption can and has been broken, Adobe fears getting sued under the DMCA if they decrypt the data."

122 of 656 comments (clear)

  1. DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Adobe is a large company with deep pockets (unlike Bibble), and it is unlikely we would run the legal risk of breaking the white balance encryption unless we can get some assurance from Nikon that they will not sue Adobe for doing so. Since Nikon clearly does not want third party raw converters reading their files (they would much rather sell you a copy of Nikon Capture), the likelihood of Nikon providing such an assurance to Adobe is not very high.

    People who would be purchasing a high-end camera like the D2X and D2H would probably only be doing so to use a high-end piece of software to manipulate the 12+MP digital images.

    When a potential buyer looks at Photoshop and sees that it isn't supporting the D2X/H fully because of some retarded move by Nikon to try and make money they are likely going to find another camera. People interested in the D2X/H cameras are going to be shopping around looking for the one that best fits their needs and aren't going to be impulse buying a $5000 camera.

    Really dumb move Nikon.

    1. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by dmolavi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder how much this will hurt Nikon. Of the professional photographers I know, they're split 50/50 between Nikon and Canon. All of them use Photoshop. None of them read /. , so I hope that Nikon makes this little crippleware feature glaringly obvious on their packaging, as I'd hate to see photographers get burned by this.

    2. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by SKPhoton · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm a Canon shooter, but for you Nikon people, here's some links to keep you updated:

      Nikon D2X white balance encryption
      Nikon saying you don't need Photoshop

    3. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which would be fine if Nikon Capture was any good. I've been very dissapointed with the direction they've been going for the last few releases.. You have to hop through more and more windows and dialog boxes to get even simple things done, never mind that it doesnt have any strong retouching/editing tools.

      the only thing I use Nikon Capture for anymore is to control the camera to take shots, and even that has gotten less straight forward starting with Nikon Capture 3.

      I agree - this is a bad move for Nikon, not Adobe.

    4. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by cubase_dag · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'm a professional Photographer, and I recently purchased a D2H, and wheter or not nikons raw format .NEF, is fully supported, I would still Buy Nikon. Because All of my lenses are Nikon. And What This article is forgetting is that Nikon Has A plugin that does the same thing as the adobe plugin. And Its FREE.

      What a lot of people seem to forget is that ALL of the Raw formats Implemented By the camera manufacturers are Proprietary and encrypted. Canon Is no different. The only reason anybody is raising complaints is because nikon has not yet released the newest version of their Raw Format to adobe.

    5. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by PPGMD · · Score: 2, Informative
      People interested in the D2X/H cameras are going to be shopping around looking for the one that best fits their needs and aren't going to be impulse buying a $5000 camera.

      The people that buy cameras like the D2 series are professional photographers for the most part. Many are already invested in one camera system or the other. For most the body is a small investment (though not quite as small as it use to be). Many photographers have invested $10,000 or more in lens($$$), filters($), and speed lights($$).

      Someone just up and changing system is a big deal. Will this feature cost Nikon sales, probably, will it be a significant amount of money, unlikely.

    6. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by John+Seminal · · Score: 2, Insightful
      People who would be purchasing a high-end camera like the D2X and D2H would probably only be doing so to use a high-end piece of software to manipulate the 12+MP digital images.

      Everyone I know who spends mucho money on camera's has photoshop. It has been that way the past 10 years. Excluding support for photoshop from a camera is like blocking AOL from your modem. Sure, you got a modem, but there is a sizable chunk of people who won't use it.

      I know Nikon wants to sell their own software. But forcing people is the wrong way.

      I know this analogy is not 100% the same, but what Nikon is doing is like what a professional studio does. You pay them $400 for pictures. You then take the pictures to Walmart to make copies, but the guy working tells you they can't make copies of studio work.

      --

      Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    7. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by doublem · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Damn, and me without Mod Points. My current employer makes digital asset management software, and we're not enthused about clients calling up and saying "Do you support RAW format?"

      A reply of "What camera are you using?" frequently gets a disdainful "You must be an idiot" style reply that can only come from the arrogant ignorant when they're wrong, but are convinced they're right. (Everyone whose ever answered a tech support line knows exactly what I mean)

      It's amazing how many people are out there using these cameras and are convinced that "Raw" is some universal standard that everyone's supporting.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    8. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by TGK · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's because it's three letters and tacked on to the end of a file. Everyone "knows" that the extension is a format.

      The only way around that would be to name the files Image001.NotAFuckingFormatRAW

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    9. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by Jurph · · Score: 5, Funny

      Most of us find it Easier to Read sentences that don't Have random Words capitalized in them. I personally Don't Give a rat's Butt, but then I'm Funny Like that.

    10. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Can someone explain to me how a piece of hardware (the camera) is entitled to copyright protection of it's work (the white balance data). The last time I looked, the Constitution protected people, not machines.

      It seems clear that the camera is creating the work and as such is not entitled to any copyright protection.

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    11. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by TheOnlyGuills · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but people who would be purchasing a high-end camera like the D2X wouldn't mind paying a little extra (75-100$) to get Nikon's approved software to read Nikon's proprietary file format.

      Once you own their software, nothing prevents you from using Photoshop to view and/or manipulate your pictures. Heck, there's even an 'Open in Photoshop' button in the main toolbar of Nikon View!

      For the batch processers out there.. well, you can use Nikon View to batch process all your raw files to 16-bit/channel TIFF files using the white balance settings of the camera when the shot was taken or any previously saved setting. These files can then be individually or batch processed in photoshop as any other files. If storage space is an issue, use 8-bit/channel TIFF files.

      What's so annoying about this? That Nikon wants the professionnals or prosumers to pay a little more to use their technology? It's not as big a deal as it seems.

      --
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    12. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well, this looks like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Adobe likes the DMCA and even abuses it to protect ROT-13, but suddenly it "prevents" them from serving their customers and they're up in arms.

      Of course, it really doesn't, since everyone knows the DMCA only applies to encryption intended to protect copyrighted works, and color calibration data is just information that does not represent a creative work, therefore it can't be copyrighted.

      Moreover, even if you did consider that tiny portion of a photo to be a creative work, it is a creative work in which one can assume that the person opening the file is the person who took the photo, or at least working for the same company.

      Finally, the encryption isn't being explicitly added by the content producer (the photographer), which therefore means that it falls outside the DMCA by definition.

      So... it sounds like Adobe suddenly did an about-face and decided the DMCA is evil for reasons other than saving their backsides. Either that or (more likely) they have a bone to pick with Nikon over something else and they're using this as leverage. That would be my guess....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    13. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by kilonad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I read the article about Nikon saying we don't need Photoshop. Thanks, I needed a laugh. Can anyone guess how much RAM Nikon Capture uses to store and display a 6MP raw NEF file, which is compressed to about a 5-6MB file? Anyone? Anyone?

      Around 400MB. For a single image!

      Not to mention that Nikon Capture is generally slow as molasses, even on my A64 3500+ w/ 1GB RAM. Who do they think they're fooling?

    14. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by Kaa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      wheter or not nikons raw format .NEF, is fully supported, I would still Buy Nikon. Because All of my lenses are Nikon.

      LOL. Well, you're locked-in, so when Nikon decides it wants some fun you HAVE to bend over with a smile. Fortunately, not everyone is in the same position. :-)

      What a lot of people seem to forget is that ALL of the Raw formats Implemented By the camera manufacturers are Proprietary and encrypted

      All are proprietary, but as far as I know Nikon's is the first one with encrypted parts. Since the encryption is easily broken, its only purpose seems to be to invoke the threat of DMCA.

      The only reason anybody is raising complaints is because nikon has not yet released the newest version of their Raw Format to adobe.

      It seems pretty clear from the article that Nikon is NOT going to allow Adobe to decrypt the .NEF raw files...

      As I said, it's pure Dilbert. Nikon got itself a bazooka, took careful aim at its foot and fired...

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    15. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by pijokela · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, I'm not a professional photographer but I own a Nikon Coolpics 8700 that has NEF support. I have been using a plugin for photoshop provided by Nikon and at least for this camera - that plugin is utter crap.

      It is painfully slow, even for transferring just a few images to JPG/Photoshop. It is in fact so slow that I bought a $25 shareware app that is 10 times faster and actually has a batch mode.

      So I think Nikon should stick with the Cameras and let Adobe do the NEF support.

    16. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Interesting. Let's see if I understand correctly:

      1. Our canned response to a a frequently asked question produced hostility in some customers.
      2. Therefore, the customers are idiots.
      3. ????
      4. Profit!

      Permit me to suggest that a better answer would be "Some camera manufacturers use a proprietary format and call it RAW. What camera are you using?"

      If you are in customer service, I guarantee you that something close to 100% of your customers are idiots. (Dilbert's law - "Everyone is stupid about something sometime.") Your goal should not be to find better customres, but to accomodate the stupidity of your customers while making them happy to give you their money. That's the theory. In practice, when the customer's stupidity makes them unhappy about reality, you find a way to present the reality in a factual, accurate way that does not reflect badly on you. I call it "honest spin." In some cases there is NO honest spin that will make the customers happy; in this situation, you either lie or fire the customer.

    17. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wouldn't the 5000 bucks you payed for the D2H be better spend on a keyboard that doesn't randomly insert caps-locked letters ?

    18. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by monkeydo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, this looks like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. Adobe likes the DMCA and even abuses it to protect ROT-13, but suddenly it "prevents" them from serving their customers and they're up in arms.

      I don't see any evidence that Adobe is "up in arms." It seems to me that they are respecting what another company sees as that company's IP. The slashdot crowd may be up in arms, but I'm pretty sure that no one here (officially) speaks for Adobe.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    19. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hello? Tech support? Does your product support NotAFuckingFormatRAW format?

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    20. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am an "intellectual property" lawyer. That being said, the lawyers working for Adobe are going to be ultraconservative in an attempt to protect Adobe's interests. Thus, my answer and Adobe's answer will differ. Mine is, of course, the correct answer.

      I can't explain it. It's not.

      Copyright does not protect "functional" aspects of a written work. For example, you cannot copyright an accounting form, even if you can show that you have discovered a totally unique method of laying out the form that makes it twice as easy to check the calculations in half the time. Similarly, the white balance information is functional. Furthermore, the white balance information is functional in a way that has nothing to do with access control. Ipso facto, the white balance information cannot be protected as part of a copyrighted work.

      Also, sec 1201(a)(3) clearly states:

      As used in this subsection -

      (A) to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

      (B) a technological measure "effectively controls access to a work" if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.

      Nikon does not have a copyright in the white balance information. Nikon does not have a copyright in an image taken by the camera. Nikon does have a copyright in the firmware of the camera and in whatever software they distribute that reads this encrypted information.

      Are you accessing the firmware in the camera when you manipulate these images? No. Are you accessing the Nikon software when you manipulate these images? Presumably, no -- I assume Adobe broke this encryption without using the Nikon software --.

      Therefore, you are the copyright owner, and you implicitly grant authority to Adobe to access your Nikon-photographed image data, such that THIS IS NOT A DMCA VIOLATION as a matter of black letter statutory law.

      Thank you... thank you very much.

    21. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by Anonymous+Luddite · · Score: 2, Informative

      >> Well, this looks like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

      Any one else remember Dmitry Sklyarov?

      Makes it kind of funny to see Adobe get locked out of someone else's IP.

    22. Re:DMCA prevents Nikon from making money... by AstroDrabb · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I take it you have never used or purchased a high-end camera?

      Nikon will lose zero dollars over this. If you are a professional photographer, you are not going to settle for something less just because Adobe won't support it. It is not like Nikon prevent you from getting to your shots. Nikon has their own tools to view and even convert the data. My brother-in-law is a pro-photographer (which lets me use some really great cameras even though I suck as a photographer ; ) ). He does use Photoshop and once I showed him the Gimp, he uses that as well for things that the Gimp excels at. However, to him the only thing that matter is the shot and not whether Photoshop supports it. He could care less about Adobe supporting his camera.

      I think your comment falls more on the line of professional graphic artists, and certainly _not_ a photographer. I would like to know a real, professional photographer that would not use the best camera around just because Adobe doesn't want to license a format from Nikon.

      Now, as an Open Source geek, I do think that all of this crap is silly. However, this is the nature of the beast when you live in the land of proprietary crap.

      People interested in the D2X/H cameras are going to be shopping around looking for the one that best fits their needs and aren't going to be impulse buying a $5000 camera.
      Exactly and you just countered your own post. People in the market for a $5,000 dollar camera are not going to worry about Adobe supporting the cameras format. Nikon supplies the tools to get to the shot which is all that matters to someone willing to spend $5k on a camera.
      --
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
      it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
  2. encrypted? by MankyD · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is it encrypted in the first place? That doesn't sound very much like raw data to me.

    --
    -dave
    http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
    1. Re:encrypted? by stilwebm · · Score: 5, Informative

      The term "raw" refers to the fact that the data is straight off of the camera sensor. The encrypted data contains the white balance settings that tell a program how to interperate the single color pixel information to interpolate it in to an RGB (or possibly CYMK) image.

    2. Re:encrypted? by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      RTFA, would you?

      Since Nikon clearly does not want third party raw converters reading their files (they would much rather sell you a copy of Nikon Capture), the likelihood of Nikon providing such an assurance to Adobe is not very high.

      It's obvious that they have their own tool that they want you to own in order to decrypt that data.

    3. Re:encrypted? by MankyD · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I did read the article. I guess I'm just dissappointed.

      --
      -dave
      http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
    4. Re:encrypted? by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Breaking encryption is not a DMCA violation.

      Breaking encryption that controls access to a copyrighted work is what is against the DMCA.

      Unless nikon is claiming copyright protection on their white balance information, it woudln't have much of a chance of winning (and it's hardly an original or creative work)

  3. License by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So why not license it from Nikon?

    1. Re:License by Scuff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From my understanding, the format is only used in a very limited amount of very high end cameras, and appealing to the niche market that would be using this probably isn't worth the licensing fees, more so if you consider that it seems more likely to result in lost sales for Nikon than it would for Adobe.

    2. Re:License by CaptainZapp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So why not license it from Nikon?

      Because it always makes my hemerroids itch, when a manufacturer demands a toll in order for me to access my data.

      I hope this helps.

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    3. Re:License by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      While someone in the past had explained in this very forum why RAW format is important (essentially minimizing detail loss due to JPEG's methods) I think it's a very short-sighted move on Nikon's part and it should be answered with "we don't need you Nikon!"

      Yes, let's all just walk away from one of the largest manufacturers of cameras on the planet.

      As much as it sucks, this is a limitation on how to get the highest resolution images from the camera. Nikon sells software to access these image files. Photoshop can't because Nikon won't let them.

      It sucks that Nikon isn't willing to open that up a little more, but if you're seriously deciding that people stop using Nikon en masse, you sorely misunderstand their position in the camera world.

      This is just one of many reasons why I bought a film-SLR last year instead of a digital one. (OK, the four-fold increase in price was also a huge consideration.)

      Rightly or wrongly, Nikon feels if you've already dropped a bunch of money on a professional quality D-SLR, the extra $100 or so to get the professional quality images out of it is not unreasonable.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. What goes around... by stilwebm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...comes around.

  5. Putting things into perspective by rsborg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So I wonder if Adobe feels there's a lesson to be learned here... In other news, Dmitry chuckles softly.

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    1. Re:Putting things into perspective by Kaa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So I wonder if Adobe feels there's a lesson to be learned here...

      Unfortunately, it's not Adobe who'll be suffering. This is a pure case of Nikon shooting themselves in the foot. With a bazooka, might I add...

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    2. Re:Putting things into perspective by ultima · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Think about it from another perspective:

      Adobe is using this to reinforce their stance on the issue; whereas the black hat Skylarov could break the encryption, did so, and released it (illegally according to US law), Adobe takes the white hat stance, saying they *could* break and release the encryption, but do not because it is wrong. This decision merely supports their previous stance -- that violating the DMCA is wrong.

      It's not ironic that Adobe refuses to commit the same crime that was committed against them -- it's reaffirming of their principles.

  6. Good Grief! by CaptainZapp · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Can someone in this fine, family type forum please assure me that I'm not in the Twilight Zone?

    Nikon, to the best of my understanding, is a camera manufacturer. I have no clue if they do stuff in the whiz-bang imaging market, like Kodak, or Agfa, but it would seem that their business model depends on selling cameras, lenses and other nice gizmos, ideally loads of them.

    Assume I'm a Fotografer. Since the times of silver plates and baryt paper (which sure as hell still has it's niche, but I digress) seem somewhat outdated I like to process my digital images with what can be considered the major photo processing application; pretty much the standard in my trade.

    And the good burgers from Nikon intend to prevent direct access to crucial parts of the raw data of my images?

    I think I buy a Canon!

    --
    ich bin der musikant

    mit taschenrechner in der hand

    kraftwerk

    1. Re:Good Grief! by Kaa · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can someone in this fine, family type forum please assure me that I'm not in the Twilight Zone?

      Yes, I can assure you that you are not in the Twilight Zone.

      You're in a Dilbert cartoon :-)

      --

      Kaa
      Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
    2. Re:Good Grief! by PPGMD · · Score: 4, Insightful
      And the good burgers from Nikon intend to prevent direct access to crucial parts of the raw data of my images?

      I think I buy a Canon!

      It's not that simply for a majority of folks that are in the market for cameras like D2X. Most of them already have $10,000 or more invested into Nikon before you even factor the camera body in.

      Now they could sell all their Nikon stuff on Ebay for say $5,000, then spend another $10,000 buy the same things for Canon (even assuming that some of the older lens are available, you know the ones that we chipped to get working with the newer cameras).

      Sorry that may make sense on /., but it doesn't make sense to real photographers. A few may make that leap, but many will simply stay with their D1's (or even F5's with Provia, and Velvia), until Nikon and Adobe works things out, or someone makes a plug in that hacks it for them.

    3. Re:Good Grief! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the good burgers from Nikon intend to prevent direct access to crucial parts of the raw data of my images?

      Stop jerking that knee. There was no "encryption" worthy of the name. It's been "broken" already, and the necessary function is already available in open source. If you read between the lines in the posted article, it sounds like Adobe hasn't even asked Nikon for permission -- possibly because Adobe thinks it has more to gain by fucking with Nikon in the court of public opinion and wants to be quite sure it doesn't have to offer any in-kind promises of immunity from its own IP abuse.

      If Nikon had sued anyone over this, or even claimed the right to sue, they'd deserve condemnation. They've done neither. The original article is in substance an Adobe press release, and ought to be regarded as such.

    4. Re:Good Grief! by Zocalo · · Score: 2, Informative
      Nikon, to the best of my understanding, is a camera manufacturer.

      Well, technically, Nikon is more of a general "optical equipment" manufacturer than just a camera manufacturer. They might be best known to the man on the street for their cameras, and maybe scanners, but the bulk of their revenue comes from the sale industrial optical equipment. We have a couple of them in our cleanroom at work that cost over $1m each, and Leica too for fans of the brand.

      So, yes, while this will probably convince some people to buy another brand of DSLR instead of a Nikon, I'm afraid the "Nikon is doomed" crowd are going to be in for a long wait...

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    5. Re:Good Grief! by ajs · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're assuming that the competition is for established photographers. What happens if this year's round of people buying NEW professional cameras don't buy a Nikon? I would think that would be a far more serious concern.

  7. Skylarov should laugh now by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Irony. How sad it is that nobody at Adobe is going to actually spend any time in jail over this. (Which "this"? I mean, either hacking the camera, because they're not going to do it, or over accusing someone of DMCA violations for producing a perfectly legal application in their home country.)

    Adobe: this is another fine mess you've gotten yourself into.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  8. The correct solution... by turgid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...is, of course, for Adobe to license the decryption algorithm from Nikon.

    This is exactly what the DMCA was intended to do. I can't remember their being much corporate oppostition to the DMCA when it was being introduced.

    1. Re:The correct solution... by RaboKrabekian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...is, of course, for Adobe to license the decryption algorithm from Nikon.

      Exactly. Or choose not to support the camera. I can't imagine Nikon not trying to get Photoshop support to be rock solid, but that's their choice.

      --
      "Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
    2. Re:The correct solution... by Dr+Reducto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Adobe asked Nikon, and Nikon said NO to a licensing deal.

      Anyways, notice how Adobe is the only one complaining. I believe it is because Nikon's competing software (and software that other 3rd parties have made) has made Adobe Photoshop less relevant. That is why CS 2 is coming out....to correct the deficiency Photoshop has with regard to digital photography.

      Other 3rd party software companies have worked around the WB data, and aren't complaining like Adobe is. There is more to the story than this.

    3. Re:The correct solution... by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think everyone's looking at this backwards.

      Nikon is the hero here. Some engineer at Nikon working on camera firmware heard about Adobe suing under the DMCA, and started laughing manicially.

      Three years later, we get these cameras and refusal to license anything to Adobe. The phrase 'Turnabout's a bitch.' springs to mind.

      Not that I'm exactly sure what they'd license anyway. How can Nikon grant licenses for Adobe to decrypt your pictures?

      Anyway, Nikon was, and probably is still, hoping, Adobe will start cracking their encryption.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  9. This is getting ridiculous by WD_40 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The DMCA is having very far-reaching effects, all of which I'm sure were not contemplated or foreseen by the people who drafted the DMCA.

    The thing I hate about this sort of legislation, is that once it's on the books, it's very difficult to get repealed.

    Other than calling and writing to our representatives, how else do we make our concern known?

    --

    "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." -- RFC 1925

    1. Re:This is getting ridiculous by drdanny_orig · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Other than calling and writing to our representatives, how else do we make our concern known?

      How about by buying a Canon camera?
      --
      .nosig
    2. Re:This is getting ridiculous by SirGeek · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The DMCA is having very far-reaching effects, all of which I'm sure were not contemplated or foreseen by the people who drafted the DMCA.

      Bullshite. They knew exactly what the law would be used for and by whom. This law was drafted for the sole purpose of kissing the collective asses of big business.

      The thing I hate about this sort of legislation, is that once it's on the books, it's very difficult to get repealed.

      Which is why they just keep writing new laws to do the same thing as older laws ( just adding new "technologies" ) rather than changing the old laws to be more technology neutral.

      Other than calling and writing to our representatives, how else do we make our concern known?

      We can't. In general, we don't have enough clout to get the politicians to even listen to us, let alone to get them to actually hear us.

    3. Re:This is getting ridiculous by bitmason · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > The DMCA is having very far-reaching effects, all of which I'm sure were not contemplated or foreseen by the people who drafted the DMCA.

      And it's made worse by the fact that we don't even REALLY know what the effects of the DMCA are. The headline implies that the DMCA is preventing Adobe from supporting Nikon's format. In fact, Adobe is saying that it doesn't really know whether it would be a DMCA violation or not. But it doesn't want to chance it.

      To be sure, a lot of things in copyright law, such as fair use, are often ambiguous and dependent on how the specific facts of a specific case get interpreted. However, the DMCA provisions around decryption aren't even resolved at the level of "fair use". (i.e. fair use in a given case may not be clear, but the factors that are weighed to determine whether there's a violation or not are at least understood.)

    4. Re:This is getting ridiculous by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How about by buying a Canon camera?"

      And writing to both Canon and Nikon explaining your purchasing decision.

    5. Re:This is getting ridiculous by shotfeel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The DMCA is having very far-reaching effects, all of which I'm sure were not contemplated or foreseen by the people who drafted the DMCA.

      I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily. Our legislators were told by consumer rights advocates that this was the type of thing that would happen. Of course supporters of the DMCA told the legislators that nobody would ever stoop that low.

      Guess who they beleived?

    6. Re:This is getting ridiculous by Infernal+Device · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another alternative is to call for strengthening it, until it completely locks up commerce. Basically, make it illegal to copy anything for any reason, or to break encryption for any reason.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    7. Re:This is getting ridiculous by rkmath · · Score: 2

      It's not that simple for professional photographers.
      You usually build up an entire system (multiple lenses - and a couple of bodies) - and you have to make some choices depending on what you are going to shoot and how much you are willing to spend.

      In general, Nikon's lenses are more interoperable than Canon. Canon's latest bodies will only take EOS lenses, not the older FD mount. With Nikon, some of your older lenses will still work (yes - even manual lenses on the latest SLR or Digital SLR (you might not want to put a ordinary lens on a digital SLR - but that is a different story))

      So, the bottom line is - you cannot expect photographers to give up the Nikon line just because of this one hitch.

      And by the way, Nikon's lenses are waaaaaay better than Canon ... (Yes - that is our equivalent of the Linux distro war)

  10. Exactly... by cnelzie · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...but from what I understand, a large majority of hardcore professional photographers use Canon equipment anyway and Canon's RAW format is supported by Photoshop, The Gimp and likely other photo editing software as well.

    --
    If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
    1. Re:Exactly... by daviddennis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I was growing up, I was a Nikon guy. I liked the all-mechanical purity of their high-end cameras such as the F2. There is a certain satisfaction in seeing shutters CLUNK that just doesn't exist in the fully electronic cameras Canon sold.

      But now electronics is vital, and there's little doubt that Canon has the high ground in all things electronic. Their cameras are far superior in design than Nikon's.

      However, I still think Nikon lenses are better made and smoother to use, which I appreciate. Of course this might be simply because I haven't seen Canon's more expensive lenses. My D30 has the low-end 28-135 zoom which works great for me but isn't as silkly smooth as Nikon's 17-85 offering.

      I almost switched back to Nikon with the D100 but a last minute financial crisis kept me in the Canon camp. In retrospect, that looks like the right decision in view of Canon's newer cameras, and especially now with Nikon trying to pull this on customers.

      Pity Canon still doesn't have a low-end HD camcorder to compete with the Sony FX1 and upcoming Panasonic models. That's my next planned purchase and Canon's doesn't even exist in the market ... yet.

      D

    2. Re:Exactly... by SKPhoton · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, more and more people are switching over to Canon. Nikon is starting to fall behind. Though their bodies are a bit cheaper, Canon has a better line up of lenses. (I hope Nikon steps it up a bit. Competition is good for all of us.)

      Yes, Canon RAW is supported in Photoshop with the Camera RAW plugin. Photoshop CS2 is coming out very soon and should have some major improvements over PS CS.

      Very few people use GIMP professionally I've found. Photography is the sole reason I've switched back from Linux. Try as it might, digikam and GIMP just can't keep up with professional grade RAW Converters such as Capture One Pro. GIMP supports RAW with the appropriate plugin, but sorry, it's just not Photoshop.

    3. Re:Exactly... by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pico rules!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
  11. What's good for the Goose by fwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If I recall, wasn't Adobe responsible for some DMCA silliness a while back? Seems that things have come around and bit them. Be wary of what you wish for...

  12. FUCK THEM by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They went after a Russian dude who broke their encryption, and he even did it in Russia where it was entirely legal. They only threw him in the can when he entered the US.

    So FUCK THEM. Karma has bitten their asses, and I don't feel sorry at all.

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    1. Re:FUCK THEM by Mr+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going to mod this up, but I just couldn't do it.

      Your hate.

      YOUR HATE.

      YOUR YOUR YOUR.

  13. A high end digital camera without Photoshop? by intmainvoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Surely Nikon aren't going to sue, they can't possibly expect to sell their top of the line camera if it's not fully supported by photoshop.

  14. Isn't it in Nikon's best interests by winkydink · · Score: 3, Insightful

    to allow Adobe to decrypt the white balance information? This is a very high-end camera, one that many of its users will by to shoot in raw mode. If the #1 tool for post-processing (PS) isn't going to do the job, that will cut into camera sales, will it not?

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Isn't it in Nikon's best interests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here's what probably happened here:

      Dear Adobe,
      Please be advised that some aspects of our new RAW file format will be stored in an encrypted format. If you wish to support our new format, we are happy to license the decryption mechanism to you for $5 for every copy of Photoshop you sell or that you upgrade to allow to process our format. Please note that, under the terms of the DCMA, you are required to license our technology if you wish to support the thousands of Nikon customers in your customer base. We hope you agree that this is a small price to pay to continue to support our cameras.

      Sincerely,
      Nikon.

      Dear Nikon,
      Fuck you.

      Sincerely,
      Adobe.

  15. LOL by Kaa · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dilbert is a reality show.

    " -- Hmm... I know! Let's radically decrease the usefulness of our flagship camera by making it incompatible with the program that probably 90+% of professionals use!

    -- Yes, great idea! And if they try to go around it, we'll sue them under DMCA!"

    --

    Kaa
    Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
  16. How about a DMCA opinon, here? by MoralHazard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (I personally think that would be a bogus interpretation of the DMCA, since I think the copyrighted information inside the NEF file belongs to the photographer, not Nikon. But Nikon apparently thinks they own the information inside the NEF).

    This is a little strange, isn't it? If a photographer takes a picture, it's pretty clear that the photog owns the copyright to that photo. Nikon couldn't possibly claim any rights on photos taken with their camera, least of all because it would make it impossible for professionals to use that equipment. And with $5K cameras, you're really only looking at the professional market.

    So if the white balance information (the encrypted stuff) is a part of the photograph, the photographer owns the copyright on that data, too, right? That seems pretty straightforward, but I could be wrong...

    Can the DMCA be applied to prevent you from decrypting something that you own the copyright on? This isn't even like owning a DVD and wanting to decrypt the data, because in that case the movie company owns the copyright.

    If the DMCA can be applied that way, that's some fucked-up shit. It's just absurd.

    1. Re:How about a DMCA opinon, here? by dmeranda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You the end user (photographer) hold the copyright to everything you produce using the camera (since you bought it without restriction). The DMCA gives you full rights to everything you produce, including decrypting the w.b. data, reprogramming the camera, etc. The problem is, you can't get help from anybody else (like Adobe) in order to exercise your own rights over your own copyrighted material.

      What the DMCA does prevent is anybody (like Adobe) from "traficking" in software which decrypts the data. It doesn't matter who actually owns the copyright...even if the photographer releases everything to the Public Domain. It's the fact that there could exist any copyrighted photo which Adobe's software could be used to decrypt by anybody else who's not the copyright holder.

      Heck, the Nikon CEO could take his own Nikon camera, take one picture, and thus Nikon would own the copyright to one image, which Adobe's "piracy tool" could be used to unlock. Note this could also affect non-commercial software too, like The Gimp, if they wanted to support the proprietary Nikon white balance.

      Of course the DMCA is completely absurd and is only useful for legalizing outright fraud and extortion schemes; it does almost nothing to actually protect copyright or prevent piracy. But I still want to know why in the world is the camera encrypting anything to begin with?

  17. The correct solution...but to which problem? by jkabbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a difference in principle between encryption to protect content owned by the corporation and encryption simply created to extract money from third-party vendors.

    If I take a picture with a Nikon camera, I own the content. Shouldn't I be able to do what I want with it?

    Furthermore, what grounds would Nikon have for suing Adobe based on Adobe's violation of encryption that is protecting my copyrighted works? IANALY, but isn't there a "standing" issue here?

    1. Re:The correct solution...but to which problem? by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe the parent poster was using a bit of sarcasm.

      When Adobe used the DCMA to go after Russian programmers (a move they rescinded and let the FBI do for them), the DCMA was a great and wonderful thing.

      Now, Adobe's learning what a poison pill the DCMA really is. Will this cut short their support for such a law, or next time make them fight such onerous challenges to reasonable copyright as set out by the founders of the United States?

      Anyway, that's what I think the poster was talking about.

      As for the last part, Nikon could sue Adobe under the DCMA, which states that you can crack encryption for personal use - but you can't tell anyone else how to do it. If Adobe releases a tool that cracks Nikon's encryption algorithm, then Nikon could go after them for some imagined damages.

      The best thing is for Nikon to realize their heads are up their asses, remove this stupid encryption algorithm, and for both sides to state publicly that the DCMA is a bad, bad, bad law and they will never give money to any politician who supports it.

      Yeah. And monkeys might fly out of my butt, too.

    2. Re:The correct solution...but to which problem? by jkabbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As for the last part, Nikon could sue Adobe under the DCMA, which states that you can crack encryption for personal use - but you can't tell anyone else how to do it. If Adobe releases a tool that cracks Nikon's encryption algorithm, then Nikon could go after them for some imagined damages.

      But if the measure is not designed to protect the rights of a copyright owner, I do not believe any device designed to circumvent that measure falls under the DMCA. It is clear to me that encrypting white balance values is not designed to protect my rights as the photographer.

      But, I can see why it's scary enough for Adobe to just walk away for the moment.

    3. Re:The correct solution...but to which problem? by jkabbe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not true.

      17 USC 1201 (a) states
      (3) As used in this subsection - (A) to ''circumvent a technological measure'' means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner;

      17 USC 1201(b) states

      (1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that - (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;

      It's all about the copyright owners.....

    4. Re:The correct solution...but to which problem? by jkabbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not *your* copyrighted material this whole Nikon business is dealing with, it's Nikon's encryption algorithm.

      All I can suggest is that you read the US Code. You'll see that the copyrighted material is a crucial requirement.

      If Nikon wishes to patent it's encryption/decryption algorithm for this particular purpose, it's free to do so. But the DMCA cannot be used to replace the patent system. Unless the purpose of the measure (in this case, encryption) is to protect the copyrighted work (that belongs to me) from others (people NOT me), it isn't covered by the DMCA.

  18. Makes absolutly no sense from Nikon... by mrRay720 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With the professional imaging market essentially BEING Photoshopm I'd expect that the camera guys would be falling over themselves to have increased support from Photoshop? Sure they might gain a few $s this way selling their own cruddy software, but look at it this way:

    -Photoshop pros looking for a camera - lots.

    -High end Nikon owners looing for an imaging app other than Photoshop - few.

    Nikon use your brain - Photoshop IS the high end imaging market. Preventing improved Photoshop support is pretty much the same as preventing more profit.

  19. A brief summary. by KILNA · · Score: 3, Funny

    First, Adobe has a guy arrested, and then tried under the DMCA, for having the gall to crack the PDF format, which Adobe voilated the DMCA by embedding other font vendors' information into.

    Now, even though someone has broken an ineffective encryption method, they can't use the files due to the DMCA. Maybe they'll just keep buying companies until they have all the IP they need? :)

    --
    Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
  20. I'm a sys-admin for a pro lab by genner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nikon is going to take the hit for this one. Adobe is basically a monopoly when it comes to image processing. If they leave support for Nikon out of their product they won't sufffer a bit, but Nikon will.

  21. This will get resolved. by stlhawkeye · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This PR blows for Nikon, who is marketing a high-end camera to elite users. That's a fickle market of people who weigh purchasing decisions carefully. I bet Adobe and Nikkon resolve this problem within 3 weeks. Save this post so you can see if I'm right!

    --
    "I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
  22. Agreed. by MisanthropicProgram · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because if they stick to their own format, there's always: Cannon, Pentax, or some other company that will use a standard format.

  23. Re:foolish? by spicyjeff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Adobe is trying to strong-arm Nikon. Nikon does license the encrypted format infomation. Adobe either doesn't like the terms or wants to try to get something for nothing and releases this story to the media saying its not their fault they can't break the law. Hoping that everyone will scream at Nikon for allowing this to happen, in turn Nikon will need to fold to save public opinion.

    Lots of people have file formats that are DMCA protected, including Adobe. And I bet Adobe wants you to pay their licensing fees...

  24. Nikon has its own RAW plugin for Photoshop by technoviper · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a professional photographer, i frankly prefer Nikons own RAW filter, its definately better at processing RAW files than Adobes. i had never assumed that the DMCA had anything to do with the RAW processing, as most camera manufacturers have thir own proprietary RAW formats. In the print/prepress world proprietary software and hardware is the norm, not the exception. Having to spend money on an inexpensive plugin is hardly a major inconvenience. (Not to mention that i got the software bundled with my camera)

    1. Re:Nikon has its own RAW plugin for Photoshop by stubear · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bullshit. Photoshop is still VERY relevant to the post-processing of an image once it's been converted from RAW. I'm not talking about applying cheesy filter effects either, rather adjusting the tonal range or the image, etc. Adobe is trying to eliminate the need for third parties to develop their own RAW format by creating the Adobe DNG (digital negative) format. They have asked for input form the photography industry, including camera manufacturers.

  25. Agreed... by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Adobe should get on the horn with Nikon's legal dept. and inform them that there will be a sticker on Adobe's packages and full disclosure on their website about Nikon support.

    Truly no issue here. Let Nikon make their own Photoshop if they want, but I think this is going to be 'case closed'.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:Agreed... by skribble · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well... This isn't quite true. Nikon does in fact have photoshop RAW plug-ins, and while they lack features of ACR they do work.

      Also, this only effect White Balance. The files can still be read just fine, you'll just have to set WB manually (or use PS's Auto WB) Which really isn't that big of deal since most photographers tweak WB anyway.

      Also Nikon Capture is ~$90 ($99 MSRP) which even has a button to open a NEF in Photoshop.

      Anyway.. now that the fact are straight... This is a boneheaded decision by Nikon, but they are famous for such things. They make fantastic products, but the management has always been retarded.

      --
      --- Nothing To See Here ---
    2. Re:Agreed... by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2, Funny

      They could always do the typical "Open Source" complaint: "This device not supported because manufacturer is being a butthead".

  26. Afraid of getting sued? by fsck! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think they are more interested in not looking like a bunch of hypocrites. Remember the Adobe eBook fiasco? If they look at this problem and say (by their actions) that the DMCA is stupidly getting in the way of getting perfectly legitimate work done and break the encryption, they loose.

  27. The Big Picture (pun intended) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think what we're seeing here is Adobe's opening shot in what they hope will be a publicly visible dispute.

    As many noted, this hurts Nikon. And hurts them plenty.

    Why wouldn't Adobe simply license the technology? Why should they? Why should they pay Nikon for the ability to decrypt information that has no business being encrypted in the first place?

    More to the point, Adobe is simply not going to open the floodgates here. If they pay the license fee here, they've told every camera manufacturer "hey, build in some pointless encryption and we'll pay you money!"

    Adobe's putting Nikon, and by extension the industry, on notice here. They're not going to be blackmailed into licensing pointless technology for DCMA issues. They'll drop your product first. And, as Nikon is sure to learn, they've got a lot more to lose than Adobe.

    Looks like Nikon gambled here that Adobe would pay up to keep support for Nikon's product. And lost.

  28. Actually... by J+Barnes · · Score: 5, Informative

    Once you're getting into the "pro" bracket of digital photo investment, serious users are much more inclined to use secondary software solutions that work with photoshop...regardless of cost. While photoshop edits great images and most photoprinters put out some fantastic pictures, serious digital image makers regularly use printer RIPs that cost more then the actual printer.

    Furthermore, several high-end photographers are extolling the virtues of stand-alone raw processors as an addition to their photoshop workflow.

    I'm not saying that it's morally acceptable for Nikon to lock part of their RAW format, I'm just saying that the impact of this upon the pro photo world is far less significant then it would appear.

  29. Which copyright is what? by vrTeach · · Score: 2, Interesting
    An interesting quote from TFA:
    (I personally think that would be a bogus interpretation of the DMCA, since I think the copyrighted information inside the NEF file belongs to the photographer, not Nikon. But Nikon apparently thinks they own the information inside the NEF).

    If the medium used for the artistic is subject to some IP/copyright, doesn't the artist still have some rights to be able to get to her/his content? I suppose this is the similar to saving to any proprietary format (say zip disk or fat32), but this overlaying of rights sure gets confusing. Sort of reminds me of the recent article about GPL'd fonts.

    On the other hand, manufacturers of photographic film certainly keep the chemical makeup, etc of their products secret. Why shouldn't digital camera makers be able to hide the methods of RAW storage for their products? As long as the content is still available in open-ish format (tiff, jpg), the artist can work with it using third-party products.
    eks

    --
    -- Mein Systemadminstrator hat einen großen schwarzen Moustache.
  30. Remember when patents were to promote things? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Back in the old days, when they weren't used to prevent competition, but to encourage sub-licensing at a reasonable rate?

    Well, those days are gone, and the same's true for copyright and the DCMA.

    All your profits are belong to CEOs.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  31. Two thoughts. by LaminatorX · · Score: 4, Insightful
    [Nikon friendly angle]
    Photoshop's RAW converter is considered by many in the industry to be mediocre. Nikon wants images from their flagship camera to be processed well, reflecting the quality of their product.

    [More Realistic Angle]
    Nikon wants to sell more copies of its Nikon Capture software, which is a superior RAW converter, hands down. $100 for a copy of NC is penuts to a pro, and the savings in their time will be significant.

    1. Re:Two thoughts. by Bean9000 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      [More Realistic Angle] Nikon wants to sell more copies of its Nikon Capture software, which is a superior RAW converter, hands down. $100 for a copy of NC is penuts to a pro, and the savings in their time will be significant.

      For a pro, this is a true. They will investigate the best RAW converters available (including Adobe, Nikon Capture, C1, Bibble, etc.) and choose the best one. This decision will be almost regardless of cost as it's such as integral part of the workflow that it would be rather silly to cheap out on the raw converter for a pro. So for this reason i find it hard to buy the 'nikon-friendly angle'

      However, nikon has cameras aimed at the lower end of the market as well (the D70 for now, with more planned in the near future.) Most of the people buying these aren't pros. They also don't need the best or most efficient workflow - they're not selling prints to clients and trying to make a living from it. This is market Nikon probably wants to make sure buys *their* RAW converters and not the other guy's.

    2. Re:Two thoughts. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      [Disinterested spectator angle]
      Of course Adobe's RAW converter isn't as good as Nikon's - Nikon has made it illegal for Adobe to produce one with as high a quality. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Nikon's programming prowess (although he seemed competent enough in "Hackers").

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  32. It's just whitebalance.. for now by Animaether · · Score: 4, Informative

    As Adobe themselves state, they expect to have preliminary support for the D2X in May ( http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw. html )

    As the article itself mentions, it's not really that big a deal. It is the white balance parameters as set on the camera when the image was shot that is encrypted. The RAW data isn't directly affected by this, and picking a white-balance preset or performing manual/auto whitebalacing on the RAW data gives you the same/similar/better results (that's partly the point of shooting RAW, no?)

    What could be worse is if they encrypted the data as well. This is what SONY does on the F828 and V3, for example.
    However, both are supported by Photoshop's RAW support, so I take it they simply licensed or SONY gave them a thumbs up for supporting it. No idea why they encrypt it, though.
    Regardless.. that's what would have to happen with any future encrypted formats.. I doubt we've seen the last of them anyway.

    If all else fails, get the dcraw utils ( http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/ ) and convert from one raw to another. That's where the SONY decryptor is also hosted.

    Speaking of dcraw... has Adobe given the author credit yet ?

  33. This is DRM on Your Photographs by SteveM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Furthermore, several high-end photographers are extolling the virtues of stand-alone raw processors as an addition to their photoshop workflow.

    Unfortunately, no standalone raw processors can support Nikon's encrypted format

    I'm not saying that it's morally acceptable for Nikon to lock part of their RAW format, I'm just saying that the impact of this upon the pro photo world is far less significant then it would appear.

    Only if what you are saying is that having only one raw converter, Nikon's, is not significant.

    This is truely significant. What Nikon is saying is that Nikon owns the file and that the photographer does not.

    SteveM

  34. The real question: by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Where does Photoshop come in? As graphic arts software, it's great for removing a telephone pole, or adding a drop shadow, or affixing a caption to your photo. But if you're using it to crop or straighten an image, or adjust contrast, brightness, saturation and curves, or to apply filters, you simply don't need it."

    No. The real question is: If I already use Photoshop, why would I want Nikon Capture? After all, it only does half of what Photoshop CS can do, and won't be compatable with my clients.

    Pros aren't going to be dumping Photoshop any time soon. And while there're not, there's not much of a reason to use something else. Unless, of course, the company who made your camera is trying to lock you in, in which case you might consider another brand.

    Why is Nikon so hot and bothered about image editing all of a suddern anyway?

  35. Not so strange by doublem · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to have a boss who nearly fired me when he found out I was using OpenOffice, because he insisted that anything I wrote using it would be "Open Sourced" as a result. I'd like to point out that the difference between a word processor and a text editor was over his head, and he thought I wrote my code in it as well.

    I countered with "If that were true, Microsoft would own the copyright to everything you write with Word."

    You could see the gears in his head seize at the thought. After close to a minute he said "But we only have on copy. We'll just pick one machine and say that's what Microsoft owns."

    Yes folks, he rebutted me with software piracy.

    In the end, I had to un-install OpenOffice

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
  36. Thomas Knoll says by geneing · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Author of Photoshop Thomas Knoll, said "I think the copyrighted information inside the NEF file belongs to the photographer, not Nikon. But Nikon apparently thinks they own the information inside the NEF."

  37. Re:License Bingo! by mpapet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe your question cuts to the heart of the matter.

    I'm imagining Nikon makes a presentation to Adobe about their products, "we need Adobe's support" blah blah blah. And then when Nikon gets to the specifics of their high-end camera they tell Adobe, "Nikon is giving Adobe a wonderful opportunity to license our RAW technology for use in Adobe products!"

    After Nikon buys Adobe people an expensive lunch, Adobe is indignant that they must license the RAW import technology. They are ADOBE SYSTEMS for gosh's sake. Adobe Engineering can hack their way into it, but Nikon's smart and is leaving the litigation door open.

    Adobe then attempts to reassert their dominance by making Nikon/DMCA out to be the bad guys (which IMHO they are not.)in the press in an attempt to get industry/public opinion on their side.

    I give Adobe kudos for doing whatever it takes to get a lower price/free technology. It takes real talent to make customers feel good while they take it up the a**. I'd be much better off if I could do it as well as they do.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  38. It's a test. by Glytch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Today, white balance. Tomorrow, EXIF. Later, the sensor pattern. Slippery slope, man.

    What I don't understand is why they're going through with this insanity when far behind Canon in terms of new DSLR technologies and doing so poorly in recruiting customers. Sure, they're getting sales from pros who've already got a load of Nikon glass, but people starting from scratch, or pros who have the cash to invest in new lenses and bodies, will just switch to Canon and their superior DSLR linup. Tell me again, Nikon die-hards, where's the Nikon answer to the 20D? The entry-level Rebel XT? Where's Nikon's equivalent of the full-frame 1Ds Mark 2? Oh, that's right. There isn't one. There's just a D2X with 12 million tiny little photosites jammed onto an APSC-sized Sony-made sensor. Oh, and an overweight, underperforming Kodak-made monstrosity that doesn't work well past ISO100 anyway. Ick.

  39. Dmitri must be enjoying the hell out of this by Glamdrlng · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can't say I have any sympathy for the company that imprisoned a programmer because he broke their encryption so the visually impaired could read their file format. Companies like Adobe are part of the reason the DMCA exists. It's nice to see them bleeding on their double-edged sword every now and again.

    --

    Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
  40. Disagreed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looking through this, it looks like the encrypted data consists entirely of the settings the user entered into the camera, and white-level readings from the time the image was taken. Since this combination of data comes entirely from the user and the user's operation of the camera, I am pretty sure that any copyright on this combination would belong to the user.

    Apple should fight this. Not only would it be a fairly easy battle to fight, it would establish some really important precedents:

    1: User has the right to his own data. Currently the DMCA does not provide an exception for the copyright owner to break someone else's encryption to retrieve his own work. A precedent like this would head off any attempts to require everyone to DRM everything to prevent any copying, even when the creator wants to.

    2: Container license must be compatible with Content license. For all of Microsoft's grandstanding over their proprietary word document formats, what happens if I post a Word document on my website with a license granting anyone the right to read that document in any way they choose? Does that supercede whatever proprietary interests Microsoft has on their container? Whose responsibility is it to ensure the container and content are compatible?

    1. Re:Disagreed! by elmegil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why fight when it's easier and cheaper to turn it into a PR nightmare for Nikon?

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  41. not anymore... by Cryptnotic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look at any sporting event and count how many pros are using off-white lenses (Canon's professional telephoto lenses are all painted off-white, supposedly because it reduces heat expansion of lens elements).

    --
    My other first post is car post.
  42. Maybe it's just an Adobe scam (FUD Mongering) by skribble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've read that Nikon actually hasn't encrypted the WB *yet*. It also seems that if Nikon wanted to force people to use thier products they would encrypt much more then WB.

    It seems highly possible that this a ploy by Adobe to freak people out about propritary RAW formats so everyone will demand thier next camera be DNG compatible (DNG being Adobe's "Standard" Propritary RAW format (Think Microsoft)).

    --
    --- Nothing To See Here ---
  43. What goes around comes around. by andydread · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So many people forget that Adobe is and BIG sponsor of the DMCA and as a big member of the BSA has lobbied hard for the DMCA. So I am afraid that I cannot feel sorry for Adobe in this case. They deserve what they get. They had the Russian kid arrested for doing they same thing. So Screw-em. The should just license the code from Nikon and stop whining. HEY ADOBE! You and the BSA lobbied for this crap. Live with it.

  44. Here's why it's an issue by metamatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I don't want the camera manufacturer telling me what software I can use to read my photographs. Would you accept it if Nikon told you you were only allowed to get prints using Fuji labs?

    I also don't want my photo library to depend on some secret file format that may end up being completely unsupported and unreadable in ten years' time. What if Linux takes over the desktop, but Nikon decide not to bother with a file format reader for Linux? What if Nikon go out of business, and Windows 2010 can't run the plugin to read your library of thousands of images?

    I absolutely demand that all my photos be in an open, documented file format. And I think you're being foolhardy not to demand likewise.

    Sure, you can use the RAW converter on each image as you take them, convert to a sensible format like PNG, and store that--but you're losing information by doing so, making the Nikon a much less appealing and less professional camera.

    The really professional companies like Hasselblad understand this, and have committed to Adobe's open DNG raw format. I wouldn't buy any camera that pretended to be "professional" but didn't support DNG or some other open file format.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    1. Re:Here's why it's an issue by wandernotlost · · Score: 5, Informative
      I also don't want my photo library to depend on some secret file format that may end up being completely unsupported and unreadable in ten years' time. What if Linux takes over the desktop, but Nikon decide not to bother with a file format reader for Linux? What if Nikon go out of business, and Windows 2010 can't run the plugin to read your library of thousands of images?

      And don't think this is some far-fetched scenario. I bought their LS-2000 film scanner a bunch of years ago, with a 50 slide batch feeder. It was an awesome piece of hardware, but the software always sucked. You couldn't use the batch feeder particularly usefully, because the software wouldn't allow you to do an autoexposure operation before each scan, the way you could when scanning negs or individual slides. (Yes, you had to expose the WHOLE set of slides at the same exposure. Mind-boggling.) I had to write a ridiculous AppleScript to simulate mouse clicks in particular locations to get it to work.

      Anyway, that's not my point. The LS-2000 was connected to the computer via SCSI. About a year or two after I bought it, Nikon came out with the newer line of scanners that used FireWire or USB instead of SCSI. Almost immediately after that, they stopped supporting SCSI scanners in the new versions of their software. And THEN they fixed the software so that you could do the autoexposure operation before each scan.

      So I got stuck with a scanner that could never perform it's main function well and that's no longer supported by their proprietary software. And now they want to tell me that they're going to encrypt the files coming out of their digital cameras? It's hard enough to get good information out of the NEF files coming out of my D70 as it is without using their slow, shoddy software. If you're not locked in by lens purchases, DON'T BUY from a company that's so hostile to its customers as this!

      I'm so fed up with Nikon I'm about ready to sell all my lenses and cameras and film scanner and move to Canon entirely. Their approach to technology is so unbelievably inept it makes me sick. My only hope is that a company as large and public as Adobe can turn around Nikon's attitude by making people more aware of stupid policies like this.

    2. Re:Here's why it's an issue by metamatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hey, guess what? I have a Nikon film scanner too. I've also been screwed over by their lack of support for SCSI scanners under OS X. Fortunately Hamrick's VueScan gets around the problem, and does a better job than Nikon's software anyway. Check it out.

      I also had a hellish experience with an APS loader for the scanner. My experience with Nikon's "support" has already ensured I'd never buy another Nikon product. However, I thought that was somewhat irrelevant to the discussion at hand...

      So yeah, I'm a Canon guy now. Two Canon pocket digital cameras, a Canon camcorder, and a Canon flatbed scanner. Nikon can sit on a tripod and swivel.

      Frankly, I'm not that impressed with Nikon's sub-$1000 digital cameras either. When I look at the images on dpreview and other sites, to my eyes the color fringeing is noticably worse than Canon. I think at this point Nikon are mostly surviving on vendor lock-in and their exaggerated reputation.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  45. Re:Black Hat, White Hat... by Jason+Earl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not about the costs of a lawsuit. Adobe has several projects that rely on the DMCA to work. Take encrypted PDFs, for example, or Adobe's encrypted ebook format. When push comes to shove Adobe is heavily invested in the idea of proprietary closed formats.

    There response to Nikon's use of a closed format is typical. Like Adobe's so-called secure formats Nikon's RAW format isn't really encrypted, but is instead merely obfusticated. With a little engineering Adobe could read the information they need just fine. However, doing so would weaken the DMCA, and Adobe doesn't want to do that. So instead they are putting economic pressure on Nikon. Adobe knows that quite a few of Nikon's users are going to want to edit their photos in photoshop. Adobe is using its market position to influence Nikon to change its mind.

    Eventually Nikon will probably relent and give Adobe permission to open these files. Not only would this give weight to Adobe's interpretation of the DMCA, but if Nikon only gives permission to Adobe to open these files then it would give Adobe a market advantage. After all, Photoshop would be able to get the most out of Nikon's raw format and Adobe's competitors would not.

    No one really considers Dmitry a blackhat, probably not even the folks at Adobe. The difference is that Adobe feels that it should be possible to make reverse engineering formats illegal, and Dmitry got in the way.

  46. Not entirely correct... by SnowDog74 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Raw" data is unaltered, yes, but it isn't "straight off the sensor"... It's straight off the A-to-D, the Analog-to-Digital converter, which is hardwired directly to the sensor in a manner that cannot be bypassed.

    .NEF however, is not uncompressed... It's a proprietary lossless compression format. So, no, raw is not a format... but .NEF is.

    Photoshop does not directly, officially support .NEF, but the PictureProject software with the D2H and most Nikon digital SLRs (including the D70, which I have), has a plugin for Photoshop that allows import of .NEF files into Photoshop, with a control panel for white balance and exposure adjustment during import. It's not as decent in terms of absolute resolution or artifact elimination compared to Nikon Capture Editor, but it's reasonable.

    The best method for transferring work to Photoshop with the fewest artifacts and best absolute resolution/clarity would be to convert the image to a TIFF in Nikon Capture Editor or View Editor first.

  47. It's about time... by Eskimore_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's about time. Corporate lobby groups instigated the DCMA to control market factors, such as competition. It's about time stupid corporate-whore laws like this start hurting corporations that try to use them to control competition.

    And they will suffer. My fist thought when I read this was I'm not buying a camera that *can't* work with Photoshop. I mean, there will be plenty of other cameras of similar specs on the market that will work with PS. All Nikon has done is put it's own product at at disadvantage.

    Way to go Nikon, you did it to yourself.

  48. Oh the irony by Qrlx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me be about the bazillionth person to point out the Irony.

    Adobe went after Sklyarov with the DMCA for removing Adobe's ebook protections.

    Now they're on the other end of the stick, and have to cripple their premier application.

    I wonder if they still think they did the right thing by going after Dmitry.

    Someone explain to me how white balance information on a picture you took, on a camera you own, is any of Nikon's business. DMCA or otherwise.

  49. Re:why not just shoot jpeg? by rebelcool · · Score: 4, Informative

    as a professional photographer, ive encounted maybe one or two people who shot jpeg, and thats because they did on-demand printing at events - they carried a printer with them and sold the pics they just took to attendees.

    Everyone else shoots raw because you get all 12 bits of dynamic range which is necessary for quality cast corrections, you can perfect white balance later (or experiment with it), and you dont have to deal with compression and sharpening artifacts that shooting jpeg does, you can do better tonal curves... the reasons are numerous.

    In sum, the only people who should ever shoot jpeg are snapshooters and professionals who must do instant turnaround.

    --

    -

  50. The Coolpix 8800 will be my LAST Nikon by ka9dgx · · Score: 2, Informative
    I was an evangelist for them back when they made the 995, etc. It was a wickedly cool camera, and I got all the lenses for it, which now just sit. I've had it with them.... it just figures they'd try to milk some extra $$$ out of us for something that should be free.

    Another example is with the current CoolPix 8800, the filter thread is 53.5 mm, which is frustratingly close to the 55 mm they could have made it, but oh no, they want to force me to buy their lame-ass filters. I can't even buy an ND8, or an ND64, or a conkin converter because of the wierd size.

    I'm fed up, I'm going to get a Canon, or Sony next time. Nikon technology is great, but the company sucks, they need to get a clue.

    --Mike--

  51. Doubly Agreed... by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative
    This is a boneheaded decision by Nikon, but they are famous for such things. They make fantastic products, but the management has always been retarded.

    I've got a Nikon Coolscan slide scanner. It's a wonderful unit that does excellent high-quality scans.

    One day I brought it into work to scan some work-related slides. Since I use Vuescan instead of the Nikon software, I just needed the drivers. The original CDs were in a box somewhere from a recent move so I figured I'd just download the drivers off their web site and I'd be good to go.

    Simple, right? Nope. I visited their web site and found they don't offer drivers. What modern peripherals company does not offer drivers online? Instead I had to register, provide proof that I owned the NikonScan software, and download an upgrade to it. Half an hour later I found out the upgrade wouldn't install without the original being present. If it won't install without the original present, why did I have to provide proof that I owned the original? Furthermore, it was packaged in such a way that you couldn't extract just the drivers.

    I ended up going to some third party website which required I register, give a working email address, and opt out of a ton of mailing lists. 10kB and a virus scan later, I had the drivers installed.

    Clue for Nikon: If someone wants drivers for your hardware, it's reasonable to assume they have the physical hardware present, which means they probably already paid for it. You don't have to make them jump through hoops with the original bundled CDs just to download hardware drivers.

  52. Re:Holy cow. Mod parent up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The answer is, Adobe does not want to spend the money required when:

    1. Attorneys receive and review cease and desist order
    2. Attorneys respond to cease and desist order
    3. Attorneys receive federal district court complaint
    4. Attorneys answer federal district court complaint
    5. Attorneys attend preliminary settlement conference and scheduling meeting
    6. Etc.

    In other words, it's easier to give a shrug and ignore a minor feature demanded by a minority of specialized customers than to pay somewhere between five and six figures to a group of attorneys to get the case to a point where a motion can be filed (the earlist thing you could possibly file to get rid of this is a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, which is typically filed after the answer to the complaint).

    After all, you're charging your customers thousands of dollars for the privilege of using the "premiere" graphics software in existance, not to defend their ability to use it in the most effective way possible.

  53. ADOBE CLEARLY BAITING NIKON! by micksterama · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you read the article carefully, Nikon didn't say a single word about this issue. Thomas Knoll of Adobe and Jeff Schewe, a paid Adobe Endorser and Canon! user, are on the attack.

    Adobe, via Thomas Knoll, is saying he fears that DRMA might be applied if Adobe reverse engineers the Nikon raw file. Meanwhile Adobe was the company that in 2001 sued and had a student arrested after their Ebook was hacked by him and their encryption broken-talk about hypocrisy!

    Interestingly, NO ONE has noticed that in order to get D2X support you have to either buy or upgrade to Adobe Photoshop CS2-a $630 or $150 proposition. The Nikon software is $99.

    Adobe has reversed engineered Nikon files in the past. They don't use Nikon's SDK (available here at no charge: ) and have not used it in the past. Nikon has not sued them before-why would they even think of suing them now?

    If you ask me, Adobe is trying to deflect attention away from their costly Photoshop!

    I'd rather use the software designed for the file-in this case Nikon Capture....

  54. NIkon never gets another cent from me by syousef · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a recent buyer of a D70 I have to say I absolutely regret my decision.

    Here in NSW, Australia Nikon products are repaired by a company called Maxwell. 8 months after buying the camera I started to have what I believe was a shutter jam problem after about half an hour of moderate use. The problem would show up and occur more and more frequently until it was happening every 3rd shot. I do wildlife and particularly bird photography for fun and this made the camera unusable.

    What kind of warranty support did I get? I sent the camera in 3 times. The first time they reset it and sent it back. The second time they said they couldn't find the fault, and sent it back. When I called to point out I could reproduce the problem within half an hour I got told to wait until the camera failed completely then send it in. The 3rd time I sent it in with a DVD of the problem occuring and asked to be kept informed of what happened. When I called in I was told they were waiting on parts which would be up to a couple of months to arrive.

    In the end I threatened to complain to fair trading (state consumer complaints body), and finally had the retailer who were no more friendly pony up and replace my camera. It took over 3 months and lots of visits to the camera store to get the issue resolved (not to mention the time and trouble to make a DVD recording of what was happening) This is the short version of the story. I had a lot of rude and indifferent behaviour from both the retailer and repairer despite being polite at all times. I couldn't even find a customer complaints department at Nikon or Maxwell to complain to. Never again!

    Only problem is I'm not so sure I like some of Canon's policies either. I just had a Canon multifunction die on me and since they consider print heads a replacement part it cost me AUD200 and took weeks to get that replaced since it had to be sent in for service. I also don't like the way Canon cripples their lower end cameras in software. So I'm not sure where I'll go for my next SLR. I'm just glad I only have 2 Nikon lenses, because I'm going to have to get rid of those on Ebay when this camera dies.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  55. Re:why not just shoot jpeg? by rebelcool · · Score: 3, Informative

    2 reasons.

    One is that the camera (sometimes) has an onboard white balance sensor that detects the temperature of the light you're in. These sensors vary in quality so on some cameras they might be useless, while on others they might work really well. Some cameras do this on the chip... but if its accurate, its good to know.

    The other reason is time. If your camera accurately set the white balance for you, you dont have to mess with it in photoshop, thus saving time, and assuming you dont feel like changing the white balance.

    --

    -

  56. The Corporate View by johnos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From a completely ruthless business point of view, Nikon has made a monumentally stupid decision. Really, this is one for the text books. If they don't about face immediately, they will lose the professional market entirely. Though more conservative than the typical slashdot reader, pro photographers are even more jealous of their rights. And no matter how you spin it, Nikon appears to be encrypting some of my information for the sole purpose of selling me software to decrypt it. That's extortion.

    But that's not the monumentally stupid part. The once-in-a-lifetime blunder is in the numbers. In order to pull a few million in software sales, they are throwing away a billion dollars in brand value. Value that took 50 years to build. Value they will likely never be able to reclaim. That brand recognition gets them shelf space in stores, and ensures their cameras are reviewed by journalists, and gets their products support from companies like Adobe. The annual worth of those benefits is probably 10x the revenue they could hope to pull from their software. Unbelievable.

  57. Not as much as you might think... by Max+Threshold · · Score: 2, Informative
    Like software, a SLR camera does not stand on its own; it is part of a system. Considering that the D2X is Nikon's top professional model, it is likely that anyone who would consider buying one already has a large investment in the system. They are locked in just like those poor Windows saps.

    The encryption of the white balance information is really pretty trivial; many people who use Photoshop's raw converter set it manually anyway. What's scary is that if Nikon gets away with this, they might be emboldened and start encrypting more important data. I doubt they have any illusions that their own shitware could ever topple Photoshop from the image editing throne, but they might be thinking about revenue from licensing plugins.

  58. Canon "everywhere" is just marketing. by tjstork · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My better half was a Canon junkie and switched to Nikon because Nikon lenses are faster. The reason you see Canon at sporting events everywhere, particularly tennis, is because the top journalists are only allowed to use Canon equipment at a Canon sponsored event. In other words, Canon is Microsofting people by trying to create the perception that their competition is dying.

    --
    This is my sig.