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SCO Missing 16,209 Files?
FileSortingZombie writes "After all the allegations by SCO that IBM is abusing or dragging out the discovery process, over in this story on Groklaw you can read about IBM's objections to what SCO is producing in discovery, not the least of which is that there are suddenly 16,209 fewer files in the privilege log, and IBM wants to know what's become of them. Are they unprivileged, lost, destroyed, already produced, or quite simply gone? As of yet, no one seems to know. All told, IBM found fault with some 76% of their claims, especially one case where IBM says that SCO appears to be trying to claim that a conversation it had with an IBM employee should be considered confidential. One helpful Groklaw reader went so far as to put up this analysis of the complaint on his Web site for those interested in just how objectionable IBM found SCO's filing."
Is this crap still going on? This hasn't been thrown out yet?
Gotta hope they didnt empty their trashbins!
If you can't beat them, then make it disappear...
TW
Television is dead. Long live That Weasel Television
... seems to be the nature of SCO's whole case...
(the link produced errors when first posted.)
This is a great example of the corporate corruption plaguing the courts and, ultimately, the globe. Why were these files not seized by court officials if they are so important? In any case, IMHO there should be some form of penalty applied to SCO if these documents really could have had significant sway in terms of the court case. This is a criminal offence? (IANAL)
" there are suddenly 16,209 fewer files in the privilege log"
That's awfully close to 16,384 missing files. I wonder if SCO is using MS Excel to keep track of their privilege log.
Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
Works every time!
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
We are lucky to have something Marshall Berman has enlightened us about and it's called modern progress -- companies can learn and evolve. They don't have to stay the same! They can change!
This is a great example of the corporate corruption plaguing the courts and, ultimately, the globe.
Just because people set up a corporation for the purpose of defrauding an industry -- don't blame all corporations. If we held every single corporation to blame for incorrect practices of employees and management, the economy would collapse. What many businesses are missing today are change mechanisms. Every company is doing something wrong right now. It's the duty of those who work there that see the impropriety to blow the whistle on bad practices, internally and if that fails, externally. If the company in question has the correct business systems in place to enable internal practice auditing to occur, then the company will survive.
Certain people are responsible for SCO's incorrect business philosophy. Let the focus be on them, and what they did wrong, and how they manipulated little old lady stockholders into shelling out big bucks for no reason whatsoever.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
I just wanted to express my gratitude, that finally a legal expert wheighs in on /. with his well founded, well researched, well argued analysis of groklaw.
Just looking at the wealth of arguments you present to proof your point that groklaw is presenting "some of the worst legal analysis" you have seen during your distinguished legal career (well, I'm sure it was a very distinguished career, unfortunately you are so modest as to post as an anonymous coward, so as not draw the attention, that of course would be well deserved, to your person, but instead focus on the topic at hand, which of course leaves readers in the dark about exactly how distinguished your career was) makes my head spin.
Aweinspiring and impressive.
Thank you so much!
but Groklaw DOES cheerfully accept donations. I'm also sure that you went over and gave P.J. at least a couple of bucks didn't you? Didn't you?
You know folks the cure for FUD is an informed populace. God Bless you PJ. There is a place in heaven for you.
With many of their lawsuits being thrown out of court, It is just makings IBMs counter Suit so much easier. IBM at least early on in the process asked many of its larger customers to report to them any Time loss due to this lawsuit, including meeting on changing strategy away from Linux or talking about purchasing the Linux License. IBM seems to have a big counter suit coming that will probably cripple SCO. But they will wait untill SCO empties its funds before IBM fights back.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The thought occurred to me is that if SCOX, seems to have removed 16209 files from their privilege logs without reason, most likely clerical errors ect.; how is anyone ever going to trust them to maintain anything as complicated as a source tree?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
for SCO's customers. Ok - the management should be put in front of the firing squad, but the bulk of their employees and their customer base will turn out to be the real victims here. An ideal solution to this fiasco would be the incarceration of McBride/Stowell, and some reputable outfit picking up Unixware and OpenServer for a song, and continuing with their support.
someone just needs to hostile takeover sco and be done with them. they are as almost as bad as the riaa. just annoying enough to cause problems with progress.
"Ever have your heart shot out of season and strapped to the hood of a car?" -- Chopper Harley
all Saddam has to do is show us where the missing files are.
Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
This doesn't seem like a stunning development in the case; more of a minor "whoops" with a variety of possible explanations. The documents now seemingly not covered by privilege may or may not be informative, the "whoops" may or may not have been strategic and/or intentional, those documents still claimed as privileged may or may not be disputed based upon lack of information demonstrating the privilege. But it's still inside baseball: there's nothing so new here as to warrant a major news flash.
/. and other sources, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of individuals have read actual court documents, debated the meaning of standing, venue, attorney-client privilege, chain of evidence, discovery, and god knows what else.
What is interesting, at least to me, is the possibility that The SCO Group has unwittingly created an entire generation of technically literate individuals who have also closely followed the inside working of a major lawsuit. Through PJ and Groklaw, and secondarily through
This must be resulting in some sort of predisposition in young technogeeks for law school, or at least for thinking about legal issues. I don't want to say that it's a substitute for sitting through a contract law course, or even a legal textbook, but reading a year of comments on Groklaw must be preparing generations of youngish technology people for pursuing law as a career. It's like a real-time moot court on technology issues. The technically-minded can be drawn to the law as just another complex system, one with its own terminology, protocols, communications systems, manuals. Possibly, through following the inside baseball of this case, they might develop enough of an interest in law to choose to hack that system.
We'll call them the "SCO generation".
It's over now. That, or it's go time. One of the two. acts of gord
Surely *some* of those 16,000 and change documents are going to be covered by Sarbanes Oxley's data retention requirements. Do Darl McBride and Ralph Yarro have some kind of sado-masochistic desire to be investigated by the SEC or something, because this sure sounds like a hunting license to me.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
If the abuse of the courts is so obvious why wait for an IBM counter suit.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
There was a time every single news item on the case used to boost the value of SCO scocks. Not anymore; the hype has died down.
Well, I am still not fully sure what a privilege log is but it seems to be a list of documents which were compiled between SCO and its lawyers and are to be protected from court enquiry.
I guess IBM can be happy that these documents are missing from the list now, since it means they can try to subpoena them.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
It makes you wonder. They sent out mail asking for money to make Linux 'legal', and yet they can't keep track of simple files. Hate to think where my money would have gone had I been dumb enough to actually pay up.
... that what SCO did was an incredibly stupid idea.
Frankly, I'm not even interested in SCO bulletins anymore.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
One helpful Groklaw reader went so far as to put up this analysis of the complaint on his Web site and quickly had his server turned into a smoldering pile of ashes after the link was posted on Slashdot.
Is there a mirror anywhere?
I always wondered what happened to him... looks like he's been very busy at the shredders again...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
No, this is not the same SCO. From my hazy, it's 2:30 AM memory:
The Santa Cruz Operation was, by somewhere in the late '90s or so, not doing so well. Strangely, people seemed interested in this newfangled "Linux" thing. So SCO got borged by Caldera. I forget whether Caldera was already part of the Canopy group at that point, or became a part of it later, but bits of Caldera went into what's now called The SCO Group and what's now called... Tarantella, if I recall.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
"Linux was based on Minix. A UnixLite OS designed to run on PCs. However, it was really only a teaching tool. Andrew Tanenbaum repeatedly refused to add the new (legitimate) features the users and even developers asked for. Linus Torvalds set out simply to add functionality to his own version of Minix (the copyright allows use to do so for your own personal use, but you cannot sell or distibute it).
Over time, in adding functionality to Minix, Linus Torvalds found that he had created an entirely new kernel. I was very similar to Minix but used none of the Minix source code..."
(Who modded the preceeding garbage "Informative!?)
Linux began as a development that was hosted on a pc running Minix. Linus set out, from the start, to create a posix compatible kernel of his very own. The idea that he created the kernel by accident is as laughable as it is insulting.
See here for a a rather more factual account of the development of the Linux kernel.
T&K.
Political language
I mean seriously, Haig McNamee, that's got to be a fake name right? McNamee? It sounds like someone couldn't remember the last name of the guy they talked to at IBM, thought it was Irish, and just threw McNamee down on the page. They're probably trying to protect it because it makes them look really stupid and a little bit racist.
Just a guess.
--
RumorsDaily
That would mean that one hour from now, the number of electronic records created has doubled, in two hours it's 4 times, in 3 hours its 8 times, and so on, for the next 10 years.
2 to the power of 87600 (number of hours in 10 years) is a decimal number with 26,371 digits. Contrast this to one estimate of the count of the number of atoms in the observable universe (a number with 79 digits). The claim is clearly nonsensical.
The quote is attributed to:
I checked out that paper and the original authors say something quote different. They say:
The authors are referring to a decrease in the amount of time required for the number of records on earth to increase. So eventually (within 10 years) they expect the rate to increase to a point where eventually the number will double after only 60 minutes. This may be possible, but such a rate clearly cannot be maintained for very long.
Good lord people, these documents aren't somehow gone. Go RTFA.
1. A while back they claimed a whole bunch of documents as privileged.
2. Now they don't.
What's "missing" is an explanation of why, not the documents themselved. Since they're not privleged, it would go to reason that IBM can now compell them to turn all of those over, only when they do this will we learn if the documents are missing.
Why oh why? Maybe democracy is more of a long-term thing than you think. Maybe a bloody war is more of a short-term thing than you think.
And please trade in your illusions for a copy of the constitutional treaty if you get to vote on it, and read it. As EU citizen I am far, far more concerned about the Brussels bohemeth then whether Bush and Cheney make more money on the Iraq war than the UN did on the food-for-oil scandal. At least the former group removed a dictator.
You're right about one thing though: poverty in the western world is virtually non-existant. It's a statistical joke defined as earning less than half the average income, so every generation nearly doubling its wealth is completely left out of the equation.
How you turn that into a sad thing, I do not know.
So relax people, the 21st century is yet another one where life is better than in the one before. Bit off-topic for a SCO discussion but seriously, some people get so pessimistic over nonsense it's frustrating.
that even though it may be a tactic, that they (SCO) happen to be lying little bastards.
-------- This space intentionally left blank --------
OF COURSE we invaded Afghanistan.
Given that logic and the number of Saudis involved on Sept 11 I'm still wondering why Saudi Arabia wasn't top of the list of countries to be invaded ?
Because of your willingness to donate to my decesed father, I have decided that I can trust you in the fullest despite the fact that you may be supprised to be recieving this note. I am the sole surviving heir of the Honorable Mr Anonymous Coward. As you may well know, he was the leader of the Teritorial Region's Outer Limit and ammassed massive reserves of -$karmaks which have been deposited in an account here. Due to the new slashlaw imposed after his death, I am in need of a regular account into which I will transfer $100,000,000,000,000 (-K) . As a payment for your troubles, you can keep 100,000,000,000,000 (-K). In order for us to make this transaction swift, Send me your Username and Password as well as your Name, Address, SSN, DOB, Mothers maiden Name, phone number, and bank account number. I am trusting in your descritedness in this sensitive matter.
IAGO:(Extremely sarcastically)
/.
Oh, there's a big surprise. That's an incred--I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from not surprise!
makes me laugh anyway...
now back to your regularly scheduled
Nonsense. SCO is not a marketing company, they have no product. SCO is an IP litigation company. Also, clearly you do not follow SCOX, they may have once had "deep pockets" but that is no longer the case. Keep in mind that the objective is not to own Unix or Linux or anything else, the objective is for Darl and friends to suck SCO dry and hit the golden silk. Darl and his boys quite correctly guessed that Unix is dieing, and there is no money in selling Linux. So, they decided to cash out.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Wow. Its nice to hear from someone on the other side of the pond that has some logic. =)
Why clone Unix when I can clone Windows instead. http://www.reactos.org
poverty in the western world is virtually non-existant.
Do you live in a small town or something? I welcome you to visit practically any major US city and see the multitude of homeless for yourself.
Akarsz Magyar Gentoo fórumot? Akkor
If SCO gets bought, i.e., someone gives Darl a bunch of money in exchange for his shares in a worthless company, it just serves to encourage other parasites. It's bad enough that they made money out of selling stock when the hype peaked anyway, you don't want them to make even more.
Which is really why IBM doesn't do it. If you cave in to one bloodsucker with a frivolous claim, either by paying up or buying them out, you've suddenly got every single wannabe in the country doing that.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
A privilege log is a log of information covered by client/attourney privilege such as letters between councels, letters from client to councel, testemonies to councel, etc... It is logged to prevent your opponent from finding and submitting the information in court and then claiming it wasn't covered by privilege.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
bwhahahahah This coming from the nations that sold planes to the Chinese; who thraten Taiwan, and increasingly Japan. These planes made by a Europian Corporation whic receives rich protection and welfare from the EU can be converted to militarty use fairly easily. Yea you guys sure do take the high road dont you..
An Indian man comes to San Francisco from Bombay. He looks around, and says, "I've never seen such well fed beggers."
Do you live in a small town or something? I welcome you to visit practically any major US city and see the multitude of homeless for yourself.
To be fair, homelessness isn't a poverty issue so much as it is a mental health issue. The vast majority of the homeless aren't there simply because they can't find work. It's a shameful situation, to be sure, particularly when such a large portion of the homeless are veterans; but it's not about poverty. Poverty is what you see in rural central america or africa.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
SCO was obviously full of it and as the slow wheels of justice turn and grind exceedingly fine the world is finding out just how baseless were their claims.
Are those claims not so baseless and trumped up, and have not various stock price fluctuations occurred as a result that have enriched various individuals?
I'm wondering if the machinations behind the SCO move are not so flagrant that they could constitute a reason for ultimately piercing the corporate veil of protection. At the least, I would expect a functioning SEC to look over the SCO history with a microscope.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Then open the paper, and check the help wanted section...
Then drive past any location with several food service locations and look for Help wanted Signs.
Then check the paper again and look at the housing rental section.
Contrary to the propaganda Homelessness GENERALLY is caused by poor choices.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Been there, done that. There were a fair amount of homeless people in NYC, Buffalo, (Toronto), Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee, Washington, Houston, San Francisco and San Jose when I visited (1997, 2001, 2002). Not significantly more than here in Rotterdam (pop: 600k, metro: ~2-3M) though.
Small anecdote on personal responsibility: some poor chap asked me for a drink at the local Subway the other day. I told him "they sell drinks at the counter". He inhaled once more and told me he didn't have money and was homeless. I told him "that's why I pay for rent and groceries first and pot later".
I'm not saying there is no poverty at all in the west, but it beats eastern Europe (which also seemed to do better last summer than in 1998) and it definitely beats any time in the past. You don't even have to be middle class in 2005 to be able to purchase wines and beers that would have been luxury even for monarchs just a couple of centuries ago.
If you truly care about the big picture the billions of SCO, Microsoft, ClearChannel, AOL, et cetera don't really matter. Eventually rich brats like Paris Hilton will trickle down such money rapidly while providing some softcore for us geeks at the same time. Is corporate capitalism flawless? Neh. But do free markets work better than anything else we tried? Save for some excesses, yes, they do.
They got to drop the "E" as of 21 April. They were never delisted, the "E" indicated potential deslisting.
They finally filed their paperwork, and NASDAQ said, "fine, you can drop the E".
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your 0.02, so :P
At the current exchange rate, 0.02 euros gets you about 0.03 dollars. So I'm afraid my Euro is worth more than your dollat ATM. check it out here.
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
OldSCO was never called The SCO Group.
Caldera bought OldSCO's Operating system division, and merged it into Caldera. What remained of OldSCO became Tarantella. Just before the fiaSCO, Caldera renamed itself "The SCO Group", allegedly for goodwill purposes, but now we see it was to confuse OldSCO and NewSCO.
I'm not sure when Caldera/newSCO became part of Canopy. And with the settlement of the Yarro case, I'm not sure Canopy owns any of newSCO anyways. I think part of the settlement was that Yarro got all of Canopy's newSCO stock.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
"Can we have those tapes now, Mr. Nixon?"
I'm not good in groups. It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent. - Q
The bloat-rate for Microsoft's Office and Windows alone accounts for that . . .
hawk
Maybe these are all the AIX files that found their way into OpenServer?
I have nothing to hide. So, why are you spying on me?
As EU citizen I am far, far more concerned about the Brussels bohemeth then whether Bush and Cheney make more money on the Iraq war than the UN did on the food-for-oil scandal.
As an EU citizen, you aren't going to have to clean up Bush/Cheney's mess.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Not that the SCO case is even close in terms of viewership to this but the Alger Hiss hearings and Watergate both had interesing effects. Watergate in particular because of the tremendous detail (live coverage of the issues for months and months and months) educated millions about the details of how the federal government actually works.
They're now getting closer to the point where they'll have to justify their privilidge claims before the court, so they've dropped the ones they don't think they'll be able to defend.
I am trolling
So you don't consider it "poverty" unless people are starving? I assume that MSP stands for Minneapolis/St. Paul, but I have not been to that city. However, I can tell you that I see homeless people every day here in Chicago and they generally don't seem very happy. Bought some homeless guy a coffee last weekend and noticed he had about 4 teeth in his mouth. (By the way, I've seen some stats that put the number of people in my neighborhood living at or below the poverty level as high as 40%)
As an EU citizen what do you know of poverty in the west, the west includes Canada and the USA btw, and there are many "actual" poor people there, trust me.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
I dont consider oppresive poverty to mean you have food, a roof, and emergency medial care...
However, I can tell you that I see homeless people every day here in Chicago and they generally don't seem very happy.
How many do you see, guestimate for me, than tell me how many you do not see. As a percentage the homeless rate far below the lowest minority in America. In addition to the fact their numbers are small they can go many places for food and a warm bed.
By the way, I've seen some stats that put the number of people in my neighborhood living at or below the poverty level as high as 40%
The poverty line is a joke, A coule I am friends with get along on one person working 40hrs at 10$ an hour. Do the math they are far below the poverty line yet they own a car, have a nice 1 bedrrom apartment and the like... Dont want to believe me lets look at census data and see how aweful the poor in america have it..
# Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
# Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
# Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
# The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
# Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars. # Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
# Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception. # Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
Yea dont we have it bad..
You're right about one thing though: poverty in the western world is virtually non-existant. It's a statistical joke defined as earning less than half the average income, so every generation nearly doubling its wealth is completely left out of the equation.
yeah, whatever. while there are a large number of people over here who are anything but poor, do not call poverty in america a joke. it is quite real. there are many of us here who can not afford to buy two meals a day while still paying rent and utilities. healthcare? hah. lay down and die mother fucker. you will be getting nothing in america unless you can pay for it.
have you ever been hungry and cold? real hunger, not the type where you haven't eaten in 24 hours but the type where you regularly go more than 24 hours without any food and when you do get some, it is only in small amounts that do not satisfy. that kind of hunger when mixed with cold is what i experienced for many years. despair. hopelessness. almost everyone i knew was in a similar situation. most of them are now dead or in prison. thankfully, i made it out and i am no longer hungry or cold. ever.
poverty is not a joke. it exists everywhere, even in the richest nations of the earth.
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
They own it after all, since S-OX uses a substantial portion of thier ecxlusive and proprietary NASDAQ stock symbol. Since they own it, they can ignore it, and sue you for ignoring it.
Nope
There was this guy a couple of thousand years ago who warned people about pointing out motes in their brothers' eyes.
Which was the point I was making to the OP, guess in a couple of thousand years youll get it right?
All the poor people in MSP would be dead anyway. The cold does it. (Having lived a year in Minneapolis I can definitely say you couldn't survive the winter there homeless)
I'm friends with the youngest daughter of the former head of the PowerPC division of IBM you insensitive clod!
"Ah, so you're saying that nobody has a right to complain about how the state is shafting them, as long as some other state someplace else is shafting someone else worse, right?" No, they can complain all they want. So can millionaires football players? you have a point? People can complain all they want that does not mean they have it bad it means they are discontent.. "So it would get your support if our government decided to torture prisoners, say, so long as they didn't torture them quite as badly as some dictators do?" Aweful analogy, complaining about raging poverty in the US (when nearlt 75% of 'poor' people own a home is like calling the denial of a nintendo to prisoners torture... Im talking scale... "It would get your support if our government locked up everyone who voted Democrat, as long as they left the Greens and Libertarians alone, so they wouldn't be repressing political dissidents quite as badly as the Chinese? I mean, if someone's in jail for their political beliefs, but isn't actually doing hard labor, are they really suffering?" Attack of the 50ft Straw man... ________ @ ^ /|\ 50 ft
^ |
/ \______|
There will always be the poor, even in socail nanny states, and outright communist states there are poor people. Because someone in that society will have more, but I want you to go to rwanda and tell them someone who owns a home, two cars, has food, and emergency medial care is poor.
Formatting removed: "Ah, so you're saying that nobody has a right to complain about how the state is shafting them, as long as some other state someplace else is shafting someone else worse, right?" No, they can complain all they want. So can millionaires football players? you have a point? People can complain all they want that does not mean they have it bad it means they are discontent.. "So it would get your support if our government decided to torture prisoners, say, so long as they didn't torture them quite as badly as some dictators do?" Aweful analogy, complaining about raging poverty in the US (when nearlt 50% of 'poor' people *own* a home is like calling the denial of a nintendo to prisoners torture... Im talking scale... "It would get your support if our government locked up everyone who voted Democrat, as long as they left the Greens and Libertarians alone, so they wouldn't be repressing political dissidents quite as badly as the Chinese? I mean, if someone's in jail for their political beliefs, but isn't actually doing hard labor, are they really suffering?" Attack of the 50ft Straw man... There will always be the poor, even in socail nanny states, and outright communist states there are poor people. Because someone in that society will have more, but I want you to go to rwanda and tell them someone who owns a home, two cars, has food, and emergency medial care is poor.
Right on. I wish I had some mod points. I bring this up every time I am dealing with a corporate apologist. As far as the courts are concerned, corporations are the same as people. The only large legal difference is that corporations can't vote. Whats so sickening about this fact is that its established on a 100 year old interpretation of the 14th amendment that was intended to aid former slaves.
This "a corporation is a citizen" bullshit is why the political system in the U.S. can't be fixed. What needs to happen is that the amount of corporate money pumped into campaigns needs to decrease. Now its just a big corrupt racket. Yet the few decent representatives that want to do something (such as John McCain) can't because any law that would limit these funds would "infringe on a corporation's right to free speech."
A corporation shouldn't have a right to free speech. Only people should. Fuck apologists.
Open Source Sushi
I totally agree. Many insane rich people have left their cushy lives due to their uncontrollable sociopathic urge to eat garbage and freeze to death.
This is accomplished by sheer manpower. Cravath is a team operation - everything important, and most of the little stuff, gets checked by several different people. Cravath and IBM introduced the litigation support systems decades ago, and by now, they're wel integrated into the operation. Everything in the case goes in and gets indexed and linked.
Dumping a ton of documents on Cravath will not help your case. Buildings will be filled with clerks, paralegals, and servers, until every document disclosed has been examined for anything that will help their side. If there's a contradiction in there, it will be found and used.
It's not impossible to beat Cravath, but you have to have a strong case. Handwaving will not work. Opponents who try that will be shot down again and again by "You said that your company had never done that. But in document #B13549034, page 374, paragraph 5, your company admitted doing exactly that."
Since Cravath's approach is well known, it's surprising that Boies let SCO go forward with their bogus arguments. This case is consuming about 0.01% of IBM's revenue. They're not going to cave.
In your dreams. Some of them run to several hundred pages per doc.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
IBM: "See that smoking, glowing crater in Utah? The one by the blackened, half-molten, twisted and bent 'DEAD END' sign? In some places the rubble splashed for miles!
IBM: "They did not survive. Not they, nor any of their kinsmen, nor pets, nor anybody who loaned them money, or borrowed from them, or ran their advertising, or wrote articles favourable towards them. Not their lawyers, nor any of the lawyers' kin or pets or houses or BMWs or Rolexes, real or otherwise. Such is the fate of all who would jerk our chain to satisfy their own greed."
Supplicant: "Who were 'they'?"
IBM: "Nobody remembers. It is... unhealthy... to mention their names."
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I guess that means all the poor bastards sleeping in doorways during the middle of winter are "virtually non-existent".
Poverty to the extent that you see in third world countries IS non-existant in the US (and other Western countries, for that matter). Most homeless people in the US could easily make/aquire $50 dollars in a month, which is more than the average monthly salary of an Afgahni (~$42).
That's not to say the US doesn't have a problem with poverty or that we don't have poor people. We do. But it's a matter of degrees; there are most certainly people who have it MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than the poor in America. Making $10,000 a year here qualifies you as below the poverty level - that's more than the average yearly salary in almost all 3rd world countries in the world. So, relatively, the US's "poverty" isn't really poverty.
The problem, AFAICS, is that over the years, corporations have been given rights and conceptual properties by court decision or decree, that don't stand to reason. Many disagreements over just what rights are properly accorded to a publicly funded private entity, but I think it's fair to say that even some corporations disagree as well. Therefore, even an 'ethical corporation' can be party to abuse, especially if the primary job of the corporate board of directors is to maximise the value to stockholders or other minority partners by any legal means, which is what I have been given to understand is the case.
If I am a bank robber, and I see you stealing cable should I really report you to the cops for it?
Wrong, if the US don't have an extradition treaty going on with Afganistan the only solution for crimes against mankind is to reforce the international court. That considering the 11/9 (I'm much more comfortable with dd/mm time format) a crime against mankind. Of course that would make things like the prisioners on Guantanamo and the Abhu Garib (i don't remember the spelling of the prision) automatically a mather of the international court. Of course that the military solution is the last resource on a true international world, and also the only one you should never use
Sorry about my bad english, isn't my natural language
America starts in Tierra del Fuego and ends in Alaska
He also have a very narrow definition of western world, it doesn't even refer only to the noth of the western world (parts of Africa are on the north side of the ecuator line, and on the time zone called the western, the whole Central America too), not even to Nortamerica (Mexico is a part of Nortamerica, as a continent)
Sorry about my bad english, isn't my natural language
America starts in Tierra del Fuego and ends in Alaska
Oh sure, the wars are short term for us, but not for the people living there. Democrazy is long term yeah, but I'm still willing to bet quite alot large parts of the world would have been better off without the West meddling. I mean, does it matter if democrazy is long-term, it's influence on other countries ain't any better for it.
How you turn that into a sad thing, I do not know.
The sad thing was that I think the fact that poor people haven't been a major factor in the west for a long time will change. Read the sentence.
So relax people, the 21st century is yet another one where life is better than in the one before.
I guess that depends on how centric you choose to be. Asia, Europe and North America is certainly better off. Africa is not. South America is gradually rising again, but that seems to be a direct cause of lack of US interest aswell as prevailance of socialist regimes.
Oh, on that note, this is the first time I've been modded down when on these tangents, though I was modded up first. I could understand off-topic, or over-rated.. but Flamebait?!
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Can you spell? 4 errors in 1 sentence.
I still don't thik that the actions of an individual or a group of individuals would mean an act of war. But I also thik it's correct that if a state supports them it's an act of war.
Isn't clear to me that the denial of extradition would be a support to OBL war.
Anyway it would be wiser to talk about this point with a beer (or coffe or [insert favorite discussion beverage here]) and a lot of time. A very latin-american way to discuss things ;)
On the comment to my sig: Thanks, iv'e allways want to cause people envy me (sarcasm intended). Also I think that the most rediculous language to be esperanto (I don't know the name in english, so I put it in spanish), but more for historical reasons than for my knowledge of the language.
Sorry about my bad english, isn't my natural language
America starts in Tierra del Fuego and ends in Alaska
I still don't thik that the actions of an individual or a group of individuals would mean an act of war. But I also thik it's correct that if a state supports them it's an act of war.
:(
Isn't clear to me that the denial of extradition would be a support to OBL war.
Very true, I guess an act of war by definition implies a nation-state, which Al Qaeda certainly doesn't qualify as. Also, my opinions of the Taliban's position may be clouded by the years that have past and the demonization that has occurred since then, but my sense is that they (well, that Omar dude, their leader) publicly stated they supported OBL and encouraged others to join. Again, may not be accurate.
Anyway it would be wiser to talk about this point with a beer (or coffe or [insert favorite discussion beverage here]) and a lot of time.
Agreed, sadly I fear I won't be able to head to Latin America any time soon (two young kids, work, all that good stuff)
You certainly have helped remove some of the clouds of "Americanism" I suffer from in my views, which is always appreciated.
Also I think that the most rediculous language to be esperanto (I don't know the name in english, so I put it in spanish)
Also known as Esperanto in English (at least it rings a bell to me). I thought that was supposed to be a "sensible" language with "normal" grammar rules. That's what makes me happy English is my native language, I can't imagine trying to make sense of all the idiocies if I hadn't grown up with them.