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Exploring Superstrings in the Lab

ultracool writes "Physicists at Utrecht University in the Netherlands have come up with a way of observing a superstring by utilizing Bose-Einstein condensation (BEC). A one-dimensional BEC in an optical lattice is rapidly rotated, causing a quantized vortex to form. The bosonic part of the superstring consists of this vortex line. Inside the vortex, they would trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic atoms. Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory."

312 comments

  1. Woah.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I almost understood a word of that.. Almost.

    1. Re:Woah.. by inode_buddha · · Score: 2, Funny
      Let's hope and pray the Marketing Dept. doesn't turn all that into a buzzword.

      "Pro-actively enabling the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions..."

      --
      C|N>K
    2. Re:Woah.. by pocketfullofshells · · Score: 1

      I left my superstring in my other pants so I cant show you.

    3. Re:Woah.. by flydude18 · · Score: 1

      I understood the word "the", unless they have a new meaning for it. Do they!?

    4. Re:Woah.. by Mother+Sha+Boo+Boo · · Score: 1

      So that's why Einstein looks so tired in this icon...

    5. Re:Woah.. by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      No, fortunately Clinton wasn't a nuclear scientist, so the word 'the' still has its traditional meaning...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
    6. Re:Woah.. by STrinity · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's really simple. By reversing the fermionic tachyon waves of the Bose-Einstein condensation, they'll create bosonic quarks which will reveal, through quantum entanglement of anti-protons, the supersymetry of n-dimensional strings! Gah, it's so simple a pre-schooler could understand it.

      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    7. Re:Woah.. by seanmeister · · Score: 2, Informative

      I *almost* understood it. These books went a long way towards helping...

    8. Re:Woah.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jimmy Newtron!

    9. Re:Woah.. by NtroP · · Score: 2, Funny
      It's really simple. By reversing the fermionic tachyon waves of the Bose-Einstein condensation, they'll create bosonic quarks which will reveal, through quantum entanglement of anti-protons, the supersymetry of n-dimensional strings!
      Oh. Now why couldn't they have said that to begin with?
      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
    10. Re:Woah.. by medge_42 · · Score: 1

      Ultracold means very cold - the rest is up to you!

    11. Re:Woah.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wrong, wrong, wrong. You're wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin. You obviously fail to grasp even the most intuitive aspects of this idea. I mean, quantum entanglement of anti-protons? Entanglement of anti-*protons*? Is this some sort of joke? You clearly only satsify the supersymmetry conditions if you entangle K+ and K- mesons in a Rydberg resonance state. And that's the least of it.

      I don't even know why I try to help people like you, because if you can't understand something like that in plain English, you'll never be able to understand the subtleties of the situation.

      Seriously, it's like talking to a chimpanzee. It makes me want to scream and go calculate a closed form for pi in terms of Green's functional applied to a K-type harmonic map.

    12. Re:Woah.. by Aeiri · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let's hope and pray the Marketing Dept. doesn't turn all that into a buzzword.

      "Pro-actively enabling the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions..."


      They'd change the words "bosons" to "bosoms", "fermions" to "females", and "superstrings" to "g-strings", then have a bunch of naked chicks dance around the screen with g-strings for the rest of the 30 seconds.

    13. Re:Woah.. by wft_rtfa · · Score: 1
      I was thinking like:

      superstring: "abcde"
      substring: "abc"

      But I think the article is about physics or something entirely different.
      --
      :-] :0 :-> :-| :->
    14. Re:Woah.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So simple, it should be obvious to even the most dim-witted individual who holds an advanced degree in hyperbolic topology.

    15. Re:Woah.. by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      they could just be making it up :-)

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    16. Re:Woah.. by nanojath · · Score: 3, Funny

      yeah, it read to me like this: Physicists at Utrecht University in the Netherlands have come up with a way of observing a superstring by utilizing blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Hopefully this will allow observation of the blah blah blah blah blah, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory."

      Of course it would.

      --

      It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

    17. Re:Woah.. by forgetful_ca · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah. That whole article could have come straight from a Star Trek, insert technobafflegabhere script entry.

    18. Re:Woah.. by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 3, Funny

      It all made perfect sense to me. But I still can't understand women.

    19. Re:Woah.. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1


      Nononono. Very cold is just very cold. This is <in-a-world-voice> Ultra cold.</in-a-world-voice>

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    20. Re:Woah.. by roseblood · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, preschoolers on Star Trek so totaly have this down cold. Try to recal all that techno babble about this array or that conduit and the alignment of this anti-tachyon stream being routed through a quark(not the ferengi) filter, and delivered in an exotic glass vessle at Quarks bar(yes, the Ferrengi this time.)

      --
      There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    21. Re:Woah.. by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Not a chance in hell. Star-Trek technical writers have a very tightly controlled set of technology.

      That summary... well. Trekkies eat your heart out.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    22. Re:Woah.. by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 1

      I recall the 10-year-old who was complaining to his father that he didn't like calculus class.

    23. Re:Woah.. by TioHoltzman · · Score: 1

      Hey, they'd have a product I'd consider buying! :)

    24. Re:Woah.. by floorpirate · · Score: 1

      It's all just technobabble! He's trying to confuse us so that he can take longer to get the warp engines back online!

      --
      For every action there is a completely absurd lawsuit.
  2. I use super-strings all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/ StringBuilder.html .
    They're great. You can modify them and they aren't synchronized so they're fast, too. If these scientists are only just now discovering them they should try reading some newsgroups.

    1. Re:I use super-strings all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 hysterical! Thanks.

    2. Re:I use super-strings all the time by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      I find it funny the joke is about something far fetched as Java's StringBuilder class and not something about... well, strings.

      But then again -- it's Slashdot. :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    3. Re:I use super-strings all the time by ModMeFlamebait · · Score: 2, Funny
      --
      Pavlov. Does this name ring a bell?
  3. More info... by KeiserSoze · · Score: 5, Informative

    A more detailed explanation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstringssuperstri ngs.

    1. Re:More info... by danila · · Score: 1

      I don't want a more detailed explanation, I want a more accessible one.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    2. Re:More info... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when can providing a link to Wikipedia get +5?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot#Karma

  4. No Way! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Supersymmetry between bosons and fermions is not possible in your universe. We have seen to that.

  5. I saw that episode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's the one in which Q inverts a universal constant, right?

    1. Re:I saw that episode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Actually it was a book. And he flipped a quark to make turn the universe into antimatter. Sufice it to say the Q continuum scolded the young Q.

  6. It might not hurt... by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...to refer people to more information on Bose-Einstein condensates (BEC):

    BEC wikipedia page
    BEC home page at Colorado
    BEC at NIST
    What is a BEC?

    1. Re:It might not hurt... by kihjin · · Score: 1

      Why was this rated Flamebait? The author is clearly providing additional information to the article...

      --
      This slashdot-related signature is a stub. You can help kihjin by expanding it.
    2. Re:It might not hurt... by NtroP · · Score: 2, Funny
      It might not hurt to refer people to more information on Bose-Einstein condensates
      Heh. It might not help either.
      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
  7. I want a room temp condensate by mnmn · · Score: 1

    A liquid or solid condensate at room temp exhibiting BEC properties will be nice. I wonder if liquid helium can be made that way.

    Just pop open the bottle and show friends how the BEC flows up the wall.. down the bottle, over your arm and onto the floor..

    I thought liquid helium was the best way to learn about BECs

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    1. Re:I want a room temp condensate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'best way' in what sense?

      liquid He4 might be a BEC indeed, but not a very good example. flowing up walls or whatever is a diversion, caused by the forces between He4 atoms that cause them to remain liquid. gas BECs are a much purer way to study the subject.

    2. Re:I want a room temp condensate by imsabbel · · Score: 1

      What you want to show is superfluidity, like helium 4 has beneath 2.1 Kelvin (or so IIRC).

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:I want a room temp condensate by BillX · · Score: 3, Funny

      A liquid or solid condensate at room temp exhibiting BEC properties will be nice. I wonder if liquid helium can be made that way.

      If you can flow liquid helium up your arm at room temperature, it's time to talk to your landlord ASAP.

      --
      Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    4. Re:I want a room temp condensate by buford_tannen · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you can flow liquid helium up your arm at room temperature, it's time to talk to your landlord ASAP.

      The poster is probably just mistaking the instantly condensed nitrogen from the atmosphere for liquid helium. Liquid nitrogen (and oxygen the other gases in our atmosphere) runs down the plumbing of your helium container as the liquid boils off and escapes.

      Having LN2 run down your arm is not very pleasant either, however. Stings like electric shock at first, and if it stops stinging you know you're in BIG trouble.

      IANAP, but I am an MRI technician.

      A side note: Liquid helium is very expensive to produce. The bulk of the cost of production is in harvesting the gas to compress down to liquid form. All the helium that exists on Earth is the product of eons of radioactive decay. When the liquid boils off, the escaping gas rises far above our reach. That's ironic, given that He is the second most abundant element in the universe... yet we have to pay more for it than for oil (around $10 per liter).

      --
      Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
    5. Re:I want a room temp condensate by RWerp · · Score: 1

      A side note: Liquid helium is very expensive to produce. The bulk of the cost of production is in harvesting the gas to compress down to liquid form. All the helium that exists on Earth is the product of eons of radioactive decay. When the liquid boils off, the escaping gas rises far above our reach. That's ironic, given that He is the second most abundant element in the universe... yet we have to pay more for it than for oil (around $10 per liter).

      That's why decent physics laboratories re-capture spent liquid helium.

      --
      "Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
  8. And here's what they'll see... by isny · · Score: 1

    - (This added to get past slashcode)

    1. Re:And here's what they'll see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's possible to post a comment that is apparently blank - but I have no idea how people do it. I'm imagining an html code for a character that doesn't display.

      I've never been bored enough to find out :)

    2. Re:And here's what they'll see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      fdas

    3. Re:And here's what they'll see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny


    4. Re:And here's what they'll see... by kaens · · Score: 1
      If you have firefox, here's what you do. Right click, select View Page source, type / in the window with the source, type some of your post into it and then look at the blank reply to yours.

      This works just about any time you are wondering how someone did something in a post.

      I suspected that the people making the blank posts were just posting an html tag that doesn't display anything but whitespace like



      The dude below you just posted a

      tag.

      This wasn't really directed at you in particular...(since you're just not bored enough to find out, you know you could find out) it seems sometimes though that people just don't realize that for anything you can do on the computer, there is information about how to do it available to you, even if it's just looking at the source for the page. Learning how to do shit with a computer is just a matter of putting forth a little effort to get the information about how to do it.

    5. Re:And here's what they'll see... by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Well, since you seem to be using Firefox, just select the bit you want to see with your mouse thingie, right click on the selection, pick "view selection source" in the little menu.

      Quite a bit simpler. Probably documented somewhere too.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    6. Re:And here's what they'll see... by kaens · · Score: 1

      I can't believe I never noticed that. Thanks, that is a much better way of checking the source for a section.

  9. Re:Why was this posted? by simcop2387 · · Score: 4, Informative

    this is the first experiment that could confirm the existence or non existance of super strings. This would begin to give emperical evidence to support String Theory. up until now most work on String Theory has been unable to provide a working way to test it. this could easily change the face of theoretical physics in the labs and particle accelerators.

  10. Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Bose-Einstein Condensate blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah quantum blah blah blah blah blah blah superstring blah blah blah blah blah blah . Hopefully blah blah blah blah blah blah.

  11. Supersymmetry != string theory by n0mad6 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I am not a condensed matter physicist (I'm a high-energy physicist), but it seems like this is a way to demonstrate a supersymmetry (a symmetry between fermions and bosons) rather than a demonstration of a string theory. In experimental high-energy physics, its widely believed that supersymmetry will be proven or disproven conclusively within the next decade. String theory is an entirely different matter.

    Any string theorists out there want to chime in?

    1. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Witten said that proving supersymmetry would be helpful in understanding string theory. From what I understand supersymmetry down the road implies string theory. So if supersymmetry is disproved by implication so is string theory. However if supersymmetry is proved is does not prove string theory. But rather add towards understanding and maybe later proving string theory.

      but IANAST.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    2. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm also not a string theorist, but I believe that (string theory) + (supersymmetry) = (superstrings). This seems to be an attempt to construct a condensed matter analog of the superstring theory that could underly particle physics. In other words, it's an analog that doesn't necessarily mean that superstrings are or are not the underlying fundamental theory of physics.

    3. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by mikeg22 · · Score: 1

      I'm far from a string theorist, but this supersymmetry is something that would have to be true for string theory to be true. If the supersymmetry is not true, string theory as it is understood today will be disproven.

    4. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      If you're really a physicist, make yourself useful and tell me when I can expect my quantum entanglement wireless transcievers, and what kind of bandwidth we're likely to see with first generation technology.

    5. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is not a troll, you should know that quantum entanglement cant be used to transmit information.

    6. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by mshawatmit · · Score: 1

      No, not true. Supersymmetry is a property of the universe predicted by string theory. But string theory is not necessarily the only theory that would lead to supersymmetry in nature. So, its nice circumstancial evidence, but far from proof.

      On the other hand, BEC is really cool.

    7. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if it is a troll, then it can be used to transmit information? Neat!

    8. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      Not a troll. And while I don't claim to understand it myself, I have read that there are non-scifi authors, actual scientists who aren't convinced that this is the case. At least in a few contrived scenarios, it may actually transmit information, though whether this would indeed be FTL is anyone's guess.

    9. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      Well I said perhaps too loosely "down the road" implied string theory. Well yes other models can be derived from supersymmetry and string theory is not the only one.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    10. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In experimental high-energy physics, its widely believed that supersymmetry will be proven or disproven conclusively within the next decade. String theory is an entirely different matter.

      How can a theory be proven conclusively? Of course, it is possible to use one experiment to disprove conclusively a theory.

    11. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Well I said perhaps too loosely "down the road" implied string theory. Well yes other models can be derived from supersymmetry and string theory is not the only one.

      I hate to nitpick, but you mean "other models imply supersymmetry" (in a mathematical sense). If two different and non-equivalent models could be derived from it then logic would be inconsistent! Supersymmetry can be derived from a model, not vice-versa. Even though might think you are "deriving" a model by seeing what variations work, you are actually figuring out some possible models supersymmetry can be derived from. (Model=axioms; supersymmetry=theorem)

    12. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, BEC is really cool.

      Literally.

    13. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      actually supersymmetry is a set of assumptions or axioms. the only thing you can derive from this set is supersymmetry. if you add consistent axioms you can derive new models that include supersymmetry. string theory is one of these models.

      just like quantum field theory is the set of axioms from quantum mechanics plus the poincare group.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    14. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're getting your logic rules messed up. Disproving supersymmetry doesn't disprove string theory.

    15. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      No. No FTL. Ever. Get over it.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    16. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 1

      That sounds kind of dumb, actually.

      Doubt it's easy, doubt that it's anything we might do in the next 100,000 years. But I also doubt it's impossible.

      Which is really besides the point, when you think about it. FTL was an irrelevant detail. It's not necessarily a quality of QE information transfer.

    17. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by zymano · · Score: 1

      They will try to prove string theory by finishing the big accellerator in Europe.

    18. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by maraist · · Score: 3, Informative

      Brian Greens' book "The elegant Universe" talks about the history of string theory and if I recall correctly, there were many branches of string theory. One breakthrough in the 80's was M-Theory which tried to consolidate the ideas of 2, 3 and higher-dimensional string-derivative theories. Unless I have the order mixed up, it was then that super-symmetry was introduced. If I am correct, then super-symmetry was part of an exciting theory that was a superset of conflicting theories which provided a semblance of unification (the fabled grand unification theory).

      The point is that, unless my memory of the order of progress is wrong, super-symmetry is relatively new to string-theory and definitely wasn't part of the original models. I do not know that disproving super-symmetry disproves all branches of string-theory. No branch yet has experimental prudence, so it's still possible that after back-tracking, one of the earlier branches was on the right track.

      Not just wishful thinking, I'm demonstrating that the disproof of super-symmetry does not end string theory; just string theory as we (read me) know it.

      --
      -Michael
    19. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      No you're right. In the mathematical sense disproving supersymmetry would not disprove string theory but rather make it inconsistent. However a inconsistent theory in physics is pretty much false or disproven.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    20. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by khallow · · Score: 1
      actually supersymmetry is a set of assumptions or axioms. the only thing you can derive from this set is supersymmetry. if you add consistent axioms you can derive new models that include supersymmetry. string theory is one of these models.

      I grant this is true. All you need for an axiom mandating the existence of a supersymmetry is the presence of a superalgebra perhaps with a little additional structure. OTOH (and IMHO), it's likely that supersymmetry will be described through a more parsimonious axiom set since it's a pretty high level property of the system.

      just like quantum field theory is the set of axioms from quantum mechanics plus the poincare group.

      I definitely disagree with this claim. The axioms of QM and the Poincare group are definitely necessary axioms. But when you look at the process of constructing the Lagrangian for a nontrivial QFT model, you immediately see the application of numerous renormalization techniques for handling infinities and coming up with observables that match experiment. There are a few attempts (eg, algebraic QFT) at an axiomization, but I consider the matter incomplete.

    21. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      Check this out. Anyway from my understanding string theory in its modern form implies supersymmetry. If supersymmetry is disproven than string theory in it's current form is inconsistent. So yeah string theory isn't exactly dead but needs some major rework. So much rework that it might be unfixable.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    22. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Omnifarious · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing can prove string theory. You can only show that the observed behavior of something is consistent with string theory.

      But, from what you say, it sounds like there are a number of competing theories which all predict a certain kind of supersymmetric behavior for fermions and bosons.

      So, if this experiment works as string theory predicts, string theory and a number of other theories that predict the same thing get a feather in their collective caps.

    23. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      I definitely disagree with this claim. The axioms of QM and the Poincare group are definitely necessary axioms. But when you look at the process of constructing the Lagrangian for a nontrivial QFT model, you immediately see the application of numerous renormalization techniques for handling infinities and coming up with observables that match experiment. There are a few attempts (eg, algebraic QFT) at an axiomization, but I consider the matter incomplete.

      I completely agree. There currently isn't a set of axioms that would actually derive QFT. But like you said QM and the Poincare group would have to be included in any such attempt. On a side note I tend to think renormalization techniques actually might cause the problems of axiomization. Maybe the infinities that appear in QFT actually exist in some way.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    24. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Sartak · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, it is impossible to prove anything with science. My physics teacher revealed offered this insight for someone who said they had "proved" something about electromagnetism in a lab: science is like observing two people play chess without knowing the rules. After a game or two you might be able to say, "The bishop moves diagonally." But how long would it take you to figure out the rule that a pawn can move forward twice, but only on its first move? And what happens to your theory when in the same turn a player's rook and king move? I personally have never used nor witnessed the capturing en passant rule. An observer of my games would never see such a thing, and that exact same thing can happen in science.

      Proving something is, if anything, mathematical. Not scientific.

    25. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      However, it disproves superstring theory, because that's what the 'super' is talking about, supersymmetry.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    26. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      I'm not sure that they all predict the same kind of supersymmetric behavior. Not even all the superstring theories, much less the non-string theories.

      So this experiment might be more important than people think. Even if supersymmetry exists, we might be able to remove whole classes of theories.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    27. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by shaitand · · Score: 1

      That is not true. Every little bit of evidence proves SOMETHING. For instance, witnessing the bishop move diagnally is proof that there are times a bishop is able to move diagnally. The only way your physics teacher is correct is if you require an arbitrary measure of breadth before calling what is proven "something".

      In my example, you do not have to prove that is the only way the bishop moves, or that the bishop can always move that way. Science in fact requires that you do not assume those things. But even without proving those aspects of the bishops behavior, you have still proven AN aspect of it's behavior. Applying mathmatics is a part of science, not an alternative.

    28. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Dr.+GeneMachine · · Score: 1

      But this is no meaningful definition of "prove". Of course one scientific observation "proves" that in this single case everything happens as just observed. But you did not prove a general rule there. You might sample a lot of observations that are consistent with each other and deduct a rule from that - but you cannot prove that rule. Every new observation might disprove it, because you can never observe all possible cases. The scientific method works by disproving previous hypotheses, not by proving them.

      --
      This comment does not exist.
    29. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by pomo+monster · · Score: 1

      I remember reading that Brian Greene expanded on string theory to formulate rope theory. This was on Wikipedia, naturally.

    30. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by epine · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Dude, proof only exists within closed formal systems. The universe does not come with an end-user-license promising that any observation *ever* can be repeated, e.g. that the sun comes up tomorrow, or that protons don't decay into Mars Bars.

      What we've learned about the universe is that physical observation is highly (some say unrealistically) compressible. We write down a small set of rules (quantum electrodynamics is the best example) and then we find that trillions of physical measurements taken from just about any situation we can think up are *consistent* with the small set of rules we've written down. This doesn't mean the set of rules we've written down it the smallest set of rules consistent with the universe. With each "unification" (e.g. electricity with magnetism) the set of rules becomes more compact relative to how much of the universe it consistently describes. It's important to note that we usually know ahead of time that our system of rules can't possibly be consistent with everything (general relatively and quantum mechanics are inconsistent in their present forms). From the point of view of proof, we knew from the outset that both of these theories are false. Yet each of these theories describes an incredible range of phenomena, and for the most part, the two theories don't much overlap in what they describe. If they did overlap more, it would be far easier to concoct experiments to resolve the known inconsistencies.

      I'm quite depressed at how few people are familiar with the work of Kolmogorov and Chaitin. Most physicists fail to fully appreciate these results. The bottom line is that algorithmic compressibility is all we've got, and truth itself is a gossamer filigree we can at best approximate.

    31. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by ettlz · · Score: 1

      I sort of econd this. This isn't a test for fundamental strings (or fundamental anything). To do that requires energies of order the Planck scale. This demonstrates a supersymmetry in a condensed matter context; that is, a symmetry linking bosonic and fermionic degrees of freedom. It happens that the vortices in their CM system can be described by the same equations as low-energy versions of G-S superstrings with an N=2 supersymmetry. This is not the first time that dualities between condensed matter systems and string theories have been observed!

    32. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by psiphre · · Score: 1

      brian greene's book is one of my favorite books of all time. i have a dog-eared copy in my book bag or car always.

    33. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by jpflip · · Score: 1

      The "big accelerator in Europe" (the CERN Large Hadron Collider) will probably NOT be able to test string theory. In fact, no experiment currently conceived will be able to do so (the experiment described in the article is intended to produce macroscopic phenomena that are analogous to what happens in string theory, not to observe actual superstrings). String theory (if it's true) involves phenomena that are believed to operate on the Planck scale, many orders of magnitude smaller than anything CERN can probe.

      What CERN can do, however, is look for the signature of supersymmetry. Supersymmetry must be there in order for string theory to work. The idea is that there are two kinds of particles in the world - fermions (like electrons) and bosons (like photons). Supersymmetry is a symmetry relating these classes of particles. String theory more or less only works with bosons - the only way for it to be consistent with the fermions we observe in our world is for there to be supersymmetry. Discovering supersymmetry does not, of course, mean that string theory must be true - it's a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one.

    34. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. This experiment says nothing about the nature or existence of fundamental spacetime supersymmetry, just about whatever kinds of analogue supersymmetry they can create.

    35. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LHC could test string theory if the large extra dimension scenarios are true.

    36. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Pentagram · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is the most insightful piece of text beginning with "Dude" that I have ever come across.

    37. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by JackHolloway · · Score: 1

      "The bottom line is that algorithmic compressibility is all we've got, and truth itself is a gossamer filigree we can at best approximate."

      Best. Quote. Ever.

      Jack

      --
      "It may just be that there is something fundamentally unworkable about government itself" -H. Beam Piper
    38. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by Azghoul · · Score: 1

      Always? So what, like when you're in line at McD's you can whip it out and pick up chicks?

      Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Greene's book thorougly. But now that I've read it it's safely on a bookshelf......

    39. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by It+doesn't+come+easy · · Score: 1

      God help us all when we have high-energy physicists reading Slashdot...

      --
      The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
    40. Re:Supersymmetry != string theory by ejm3 · · Score: 1

      Although this is quite insightfull and correct within its own context it does not even begin to scratch the surface when it comes to the matter-energy continuum and how we observe/imagine. Since physical observation and more precisely measurement/experimental repeatabliity is the foundation upon which science is based, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Priciple makes it difficult to accept science as valid at all. (Although it certainly is fun!)

      In addition, using the latest scanning technology we "observe" the brain function in exactly the same way whether we are shown a picture of say a rabbit or asked to imagine a rabbit. Therefore, if we are to believe that what we currently know/understand about how the brain works then the conclusion we arrive at most readily is that there is no difference between "reality" and imagination.

      Two good books to read are:

      The Physics of Consciousness: The Quantum Mind and the Meaning of Life
      http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738 204366/qid=1116274912/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl 14/002-3197125-8416804?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

      The Collapse of Chaos: Discovering Simplicity in a Complex World
      http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140 178740/qid=1116275020/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl 14/002-3197125-8416804?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

  12. Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    I swear. This type of science is sounding more and more like Stan Lee's Marvel dialog every year.

    I've been a science geek my whole life, and I have barely an idea of what they are talking about. I thought there was some disagreement about the existence of the multidimensional strings. Is that over now?

    We're going to wake up one day and someone in Portugal will have a wormhole operating in his lab, or an antimatter explosion will accidently be set off in Japan. Careful, boys, we're getting into comic book territory now.

    1. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by timford · · Score: 1

      If there was no disagreement about the existence of superstrings, why would these people be trying to find the first proof of them?

    2. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the math has yet to catch up with the notion (theory), but the measurable evidence will always be secondary evidence, as a superstring is, by definition, smaller than the Plank constant, and therefore unobservable directly.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      String theory is one of the proposed method for Grand Unification. It requires more than the three spatial dimentions that we're familiar with, so it tends to get rather complicated.

    4. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      We're going to wake up one day and someone in Portugal will have a wormhole operating in his lab, or an antimatter explosion will accidently be set off in Japan. Careful, boys, we're getting into comic book territory now.

      As long as I get superpowers out of the deal, that's cool. Then I'll make the unscrupulous bastards who gave me superpowers pay and pay and pay. Oh yeah, and I'll dominate the world while I'm at it.

    5. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by Lifewish · · Score: 1

      Basically, this is a nice experiment that deals with some stuff we don't properly understand yet. Currently we've been considering various ideas for filling those holes in our knowledge, string theory being an example. We don't know if they're correct and we're not likely to know in the near future, we're just window dressing.

      If this test doesn't work as predicted then we go "eww, that colour won't go with my hair" and walk away from the shop. This translates to "oh shit, we really don't have a clue what's going on do we?" If the data coming out matches theoretical predictions reasonably well, we'll need to go inside and try a few things on before coming to an informed conclusion. This probably translates to massive demands for more academic funding, and a large number of lucrative book deals. Either way, it'll be interesting, precisely because we don't quite know which it's going to be.

      --
      For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
    6. Re:Richards! Behold Doom's UltraGammatronic Ray! by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I've been a science geek my whole life, and I have barely an idea of what they are talking about.

      This is why people undergo 6 years of intensive training to get a PhD in the sciences. All the easy stuff has been done, and the rest is so specialized that it takes a lot of dedication to even understand what the questions are, let alone how to solve them. Two people in the same deparment may only have the slightest understanding of what the other does. It's not about being smart, it's about lots of hard work.

      The upside of this is that there's always an interesting problem to tackle. And going to a conference will make your head spin, it's really thrilling.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  13. Think of the applications! by dj245 · · Score: 4, Funny
    The bosonic part of the superstring consists of this vortex line. Inside the vortex, they would trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic atoms.

    This has direct implications for the food industry. No longer will superstring cheese have to be refrigerated, the fermionic atoms will maintain an ultracold cloud around the superstring cheese, keeping it tasty and fresh. Yum.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:Think of the applications! by ultracool · · Score: 1

      I don't think superstring cheese at a temperature of a few microkelvin would be especially tasty.

  14. Don't believe in superstrings ... by quax · · Score: 1

    ... so I am very curious to see if they will come up with anything.

  15. Proving Superstring Theory would be useful . . by Glaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If they can demonstrate that the predictions of superstring theory hold true, and that it can actually be used to connect Quantum Physics with Relativistic Physics, we might actually be able to stop some of the bickering that goes on among Physicists today.

    What does that mean for us? Well, when Newton found physical laws that worked more generally than Aristotle thought, Physics was born and we were launched into a new era of science. Einstein's Special (and then, afterward) General Relativity made what we consider the modern era possible.

    Quantum Physics and Relativity have always been at odds, though. After all, what makes gravity operate at a quantum level? Superstring theory is one of several "theories of everything" that would allow us to explain the world in more general terms--and in the past, every time that has happened, society and technology has taken leaps and bounds forward.

    What will happen if we find out that Superstring theory really is the theory of everything? It's liable to be as outlandishly unthought of as space travel to the people of the turn of the 20th century.

    1. Re:Proving Superstring Theory would be useful . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unthought of as space travel? Jules Vern is an figment of my imagination?

    2. Re:Proving Superstring Theory would be useful . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the history lesson, bozo. Were it not for the fact that people have been fantasizing about space travel for hundreds if not thousands of years.

  16. In Korea... by blue_adept · · Score: 0

    In Korea only old people rapidly rotate a one-dimensional Bose-Einstein condensation in an optical lattice to cause a quantized vortex to trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic atoms.

    --

    "Is this just useless, or is it expensive as well?"
  17. Re:Why was this posted? by pocketfullofshells · · Score: 2, Informative

    String Theory was unknown to me until I saw the awesome Nova special on it..

    from the article : String theorists attempt to explain all the fundamental particles as vibrations on tiny strings on length scales of about 10-33 metres. The theory naturally includes "supersymmetry" - a symmetry that connects particles with integer spin, known as bosons, to particles with half-integer spin, which are known as fermions. The particles that carry the fundamental forces of nature, such as the photon and the gluon, are bosons, while the quarks and leptons that make up matter are fermions. Although superstring theory is the leading candidate for a theory of everything, there is no experimental evidence to date for strings or supersymmetry.

  18. I suppose it makes sense to physicists by zerbot · · Score: 1

    Here's what I don't get. The article on Physics web says, "The particles that carry the fundamental forces of nature, such as the photon and the gluon, are bosons, while the quarks and leptons that make up matter are fermions." Then it goes on to say, "Bosonic atoms such as rubidium-87 can enter such as state because, unlike fermions, they do not obey the Pauli exclusion principle." What makes atoms bosonic versus fermionic? Just whether or not they follow the Pauli exclusion principle?

    1. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by timford · · Score: 1

      All atoms are bosonic by definition.

    2. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 5, Informative
      If some object is made up of an even number of fermions, it is a boson, otherwise it is a fermion (the neutrons and protons that make up the nuclei of the atom are each fermions, as are the electrons surrounding it).

      Now, for the reason: if you know some quantum physics, think of taking two composite objects and interchanging them; fermions wavefunctions change sign under this interchange. For the composite object, its wavefunction looks like (an anti-symmetrized) product of single-particle wavefunctions. If those are fermionic and there are an odd number of them in the composite wave function, interchanging the two composite wavefunctions will produce an odd number of sign changes in the product, for an overlal sign change. If there are instead an even number of fermionic single-particle wavefunctions in the composite wavefunction, the resulting even number of sign changes under interchange produces no net sign change in the many-body wavefunction.

      This is easily extended to composite objects that are a composite of both bosons and fermions.

    3. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by timford · · Score: 1

      Oops... I meant fermionic, of course :)

    4. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1

      Some are bosonic, some are fermionic. See my reply to parent.

    5. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 4, Informative
      What makes atoms bosonic versus fermionic? Just whether or not they follow the Pauli exclusion principle?
      No, obedience or non-obedience of the Pauli exclusion principle does not define what is a fermion or a boson. It is just a property of fermions that they obey the Pauli principle, and a property of bosons that they do not.
      So what's the definition of a fermion or a boson, and in this specific case, of a fermionic or bosonic nucleus?
      Bosons have integer spin, and fermions have half-integer (n+1/2, where n is a nonnegative integer) spin. The spins of the individual quarks in nucleons (protons and neutrons) always add up to a half-integer, so nucleons are fermions. The quarks themselves are too. The spins of the nucleons in a nucleus can add up in different ways, depending on the number of each kind (proton and neutron) present. When the spins add to become an integer, the nucleus is bosonic. When the spins add to a half-integer, the nucleus is fermionic.
      If a given nucleus is fermionic, then identical nuclei of that type obey the Pauli exclusion principle. If the nucleus is bosonic, then the Pauli exclusion principle does not apply to it, and the possibility of a collection of that kind of nucleus forming a BEC exists.
      --
      "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    6. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Parlyne · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In this case, it doesn't matter whether the nucleus is a boson or a fermion. It matters whether the atom as a whole is. Since BECs are created at very low temperatures, it is pretty much assured that every atom has all its electrons, and, for the purposes of interactions with other atoms, acts as a single particle.

      I bring this up because it is quite possible to have a fermionic atom with a bosonic nucleus. Take, for example, Nitrogen-14. The 14, or course, means it must have 14 nucleons, making the nucleus a boson. However, Nitrogen has 7 protons. Thus, an N-14 atom will have 7 electrons, for a grand total of 21 fermions. With an odd number of fermions, the atom is a fermion, as well.

      And, of course, there are also atoms with fermionic nuclei that are, themselves, bosons (Hydrogen comes to mind).

    7. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      are you sure n is a non negative integer?

      I thought that, for example electrons, could have a -1/2 and +1/2 spin?

    8. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 2, Informative
      An electron "has spin 1/2." By this, it is meant that the magnitude of its spin, if measured is 1/2. This is true.

      But spin is a vector -- it can point in any direction in space. Thus it has a direction too (hence the plus or minus).

      That answers your question, but at this point you might wonder why it is assigned either plus or minus 1/2 and not any arbitrary vector. The answer is that due to the weirdness of the spin space (that is, where the electron's spin "lives"), it can be described as a projection onto the plus and minus 1/2 spin vectors along a particular axis. You are, of course, free to choose your axis.

    9. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Gromius · · Score: 1

      No, obedience or non-obedience of the Pauli exclusion principle does define what is a fermion or a boson. Its a common misunderstanding that the defination is based on spin. The defining property of a fermion and a boson is that a fermions probability amplitudes add with a minus sign and a bosons probablitly amplitudes add with a postive sign, ie in other word fermions obey the Pauli exclusion princible and bosons do not. The fact that fermions have half integer spin and bosons have integer spin is a complicated consquence of quantum field theory and relativity and does not define whether its a fermion or boson. That said, the obeying the Pauli exclusion princible requires the particle to be half integer spin and vice versa which is why the true defination is usually miss-stated. See "The Feynman Lectures on Physics" III 4-3 for further details.

      Just your friendly neighourhood fermilab particle physicist

    10. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Too+Much+Noise · · Score: 2, Informative

      The defining property of a fermion and a boson is that a fermions probability amplitudes add with a minus sign and a bosons probablitly amplitudes add with a postive sign[...]

      As the saying goes, I don't think those words mean what you think they do.

      Fermions and bosons are only defined in the context of more-that-one-particle states. One-particle states couldn't care less. The idea is that for identical particles, a particle permutation has to be a valid symmetry of the system (after all, you can't tell them apart) - and since a permutation squared is the identity, the corresponding eigenvalues of the permutation operator can be 1 and -1, that is symmetric and antisymmetric. Now:

      fermions: the total wavefunction of the system is antisymmetric under a particle permutation (P[psi] = -psi)

      bosons: the total wavefunction of the system is symmetric under a particle permutation (P[psi] = psi)

    11. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by sydres · · Score: 1

      i don't know about this but i always prefered to look at subatomic particles as strings in probability fields and atomic particles as knots in strings in a woven structure. just like molecules in a crystaline lattice symmetry implies order, order implies structure,structure implies alignment which provides things like charge.but if their is no strings then perhaps subatomic particles are just regions of higher probability or improbabilty as the case maybe what do i know ianast/c/ap/hep/cp or any other physysist

    12. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 1
      are you sure n is a non negative integer?

      I thought that, for example electrons, could have a -1/2 and +1/2 spin?
      Well, not exactly.
      The electron is a "spin 1/2 particle." And a particle that is spin 1/2 has two states. Spin is a vector, and we can project it onto different axes. Let me put that in slightly less nerdy terms. Choose a corner of the room (where two walls and either the floor or the ceiling meet) and call that "the origin." Now consider the power indicator light on your monitor. Imagine a vector, a line (segment) pointing from the origin to the monitor's power light. Since you're seeing it in three-dimensional space, you need three numbers to describe the vector (the line segment with a specific direction) from the origin to your monitor's power indicator light. Yes, there are coördinate systems like spherical coördinates and cylindrical coördinates, but the easiest kind of coördinate system to understand is cartesian. In cartesian coördinates, you choose three axes, mutually perpendicular, and call them X, Y, and Z. In the case of the room where you are now, it's convenient to choose the X and Y axes to run along the walls that meet at the corner you called "the origin" and the Z axis to run up the line between the two. Convention usually forces you to choose X and Y so the "right-hand rule" (no masturbation jokes, please) is followed. Whatever. For this example, it doesn't matter. The point is that to describe the vector from the origin to your monitor's power light, you have to give the X, Y, and Z components. That is, you measure how far the power light is along each direction. The three numbers together define a unique point in the room.
      Now imagine the origin is behind your monitor, that is, that your monitor faces away from the origin. That's the case here with "the origin" in my home office, because I looked at a corner that was easy to see without turning around. Now imagine something on the other side of the wall behind your monitor (even if that wall is far; in my case it's quite close to the back of the monitor). Let's say the Y axis is the one that runs in the direction from that wall to the monitor, and I defined the Y coördinate of my monitor's power light to be positive. Then an object on the other side of that wall would have a negative Y.
      Why did I talk about this? Because spins, being vectors, get projected on a 3-d axis. The "Z" axis is the direction along which a measurement will be made (usually the direction of a magnetic field). In the case of a particle with spin 1/2, the Z-component of the spin can take two possible values: +1/2 times "hbar" (a constant) and -1/2 times hbar. For the rest of this discussion, let's set hbar to 1 and ignore it. We're free to choose our unit system to do that (in relativity, it's convenient to choose units where the speed of light is 1 and ignore factors of c). Whether the "z-component" of the electron's spin is measured as positive or negative 1/2, it is always a particle with spin 1/2. There is no such thing as a particle with spin -1/2.
      In general, if a particle has spin n + 1/2, where n is a nonnegative integer, the particle is a fermion. A measurement of the "z component" of the spin of that particle can take on the values (m+1/2) and -(m+1/2), where m is a nonnegative integer less than or equal to n. So, for example, the "z component" of the spin of a particle with spin 5/2 (n=2) can have the values -5/2, -3/2, -1/2, +1/2, +3/2, and +5/2.
      If a particle has spin n, where n is a nonnegative integer, the particle is a boson. A measurement of the "z component" of the spin can be any integer whose absolute value is less than or equal to n. So a spin-2 particle would have the following possible values for measurements of the z-component of its spin: -2, -1, 0, +1, +2.

      Short version: yes, I'm sure n is a nonnegative integer. Electrons always have spin 1/2.
      --
      "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
    13. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      lol, sorry I should have asked the question better, you didn't need to explain all that. I already know what the electron spin is, and that is is a vector, I just got confused as to why you said n had to be positive. (I'm taking classes in modern physics right now, actually I have my final in about 10 hours)

    14. Re:I suppose it makes sense to physicists by barawn · · Score: 1

      So what's the definition of a fermion or a boson, and in this specific case, of a fermionic or bosonic nucleus?
      Bosons have integer spin, and fermions have half-integer (n+1/2, where n is a nonnegative integer) spin.


      No, no no, and no no no.

      Strictly speaking: the definition of a fermion is an object which is antisymmetric under interchange of the two particles. Or, for a more experimental definition: a fermion is an object which, in a free gas, shows a Fermi-Dirac distribution of velocities for a given temperature.

      A boson is an object which is symmetric under interchange of the two particles. Similarly to the first definition, a boson is an object which, in a free gas, shows a Bose-Einstein distribution of velocities for a given temperature.

      There is, of course, a third choice: a Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution. This only occurs if the particles involved are distinguishable from one another.

      (There are, in fact, others as well - welcome to parastatistics.)

      Your definition - from spin - arises only because of the Spin-Statistics Theorem. Not from definition. It's a wonderful theorem that Pauli proved. Great little book by Streater and Wightman, "PCT, Spin, Statistics and All That".

      There are, in fact, "mathematical artifact particles" (ghost particles) which are used in QFT which have wrong statistics for their spin. It's extremely convenient to talk about these particles as if they actually exist, which is why it's important to remember that fermions and bosons are defined by their parity under interchange, and nothing else.

  19. Roll 'em by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Humans really have got some sophisticated toys running these days. Is it any easier to create a black hole from BEC than from "STP" matter? If so, I'd like to hear about some research on rotating cylindrical ones, and their effects on signal propagation in their peculiar spacetime neighborhood. Conducted far out in space, preferably ;).

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Roll 'em by ironrhino · · Score: 1

      By 'STP', do you mean Stone Temple Pilots?

    2. Re:Roll 'em by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Standard Temperature and Pressure. Although "Vaseline" might have been some arcane alchemical black hole recipe...

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:Roll 'em by benna · · Score: 1

      Serenity Tranquility Peace aka 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine. I'm sure you could see black holes with that stuff, there or not.

      --
      "It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
    4. Re:Roll 'em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, the atom density of matter in a BEC is close to that of the atmosphere, thus creating a singularity would be quite difficult. Of course, considering that BEC's are made in ultra-high vacuum (10^-10 torr at least), this is quite a jump in density from the surrounding background density.

    5. Re:Roll 'em by Darby · · Score: 1

      Now that was brilliant ;-)

  20. Far Stringtopia by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interstellar space is "ultracold", and there are some accumulations of bosonic and fermionic atoms there. Could these superstringy conditions be found there, and observed by instruments on Earth?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Far Stringtopia by dmaxwell · · Score: 1

      Interstellar space will have at least a 4 degrees Kelvin temperature due to the background microwave radiation. AFAIK Einstein-Bose condensates are only possible thousanths of a degree or less above absolute zero (O degrees Kelvin). Under idealized lab conditons, we earthlings can generate cold far below what you usually find in interstellar space. That is needed for the observational evidence these guys are looking for.

    2. Re:Far Stringtopia by zerbot · · Score: 3, Informative

      Intrastellar space is not ultracold, it's pretty darn hot (4 Kelvin) when you contrast that to the temperatures needed to form a BEC (around 170 nanoKelvin).

    3. Re:Far Stringtopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No its not. Space is actually not cold enough to produce a BEC. See energy left over from the big bang acutally creates a 5 kelvin (approximate of course, I forget what the decimals are) temperature. In order to create a BEC you need something really close 0 K, its impossible to reach 0 K but as long as you get below 1 K you should be able to produce BEC in certain atoms. At least thats my understanding of it. As for the experiment actually working I highly doubt it. Come on, trying to spin a single or a few atoms whose physical properties are only really theorized and haven't really been tested is kinda ridiculus. BEC are a single blob whos parts cannot be seperated. So good luck in creating a vortex to see the seperate parts.

      The only way this is gonna work is if Einstien is wrong or there is some loop hole which I don't know about. However, BEC's where used to prove the the Quantum theory was not wrong in that it is impossible to determine a particles location and speed without changing it. See people thought that by reaching absolute zero they could freeze electrons and other particles into place. However at this temperature the sperate particles meld together and become inseperable. I don't think you can create a vortex and I am pretty sure this will fail. But if it works then there is some serious rethinking to do. Actually as a am typing I am trying to find some literature on BEC's and when people started thinking they could be spun into vortexs. I've never heard of this before, and I have read and alot on it, so I am kinda skeptical.

    4. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up; he's absolutely correct. The fact that the "vacuum" of space isn't even cold enough for BEC just shows how amazing the accomplishment is. Apparently when Ketterle was first doing the BEC experiments, Building 26 at MIT was host to the coldest place in the universe. Pretty remarkable if you think about it.

    5. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1

      I haven't RTFA, but I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss these guys. As you implied, you don't really have the background to do so. (Nor do I, for the record.) I think it's the case that just because the wavefunctions of the atoms in the BEC become one, that doesn't mean there is some sort of single, minimal allowed wavefunction. I don't see why you couldn't have a BEC where the atoms' wavefunction had angular momentum.

    6. Re:Far Stringtopia by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      But its not that cold. To do the BEC thing, one needs very small fractions of a degree above absolute zero & the closer to absolute zero the better it works. Interstellar space has a temperature in the vicinity of 2.3 degrees thanks to the background radiation left over from the big bang. Its all pervasive, no place to 'hide' from it. So it seems to me that interstellar space is a quite a bit too hot for the formation of a BEC.

      OTOH, I not a physicist either. Hell, I'm not even sure I spelled it right :-(

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
      soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)

    7. Re:Far Stringtopia by ultracool · · Score: 1

      I think it's the case that just because the wavefunctions of the atoms in the BEC become one, that doesn't mean there is some sort of single, minimal allowed wavefunction. I don't see why you couldn't have a BEC where the atoms' wavefunction had angular momentum. Yes, it's called the ground state. And wavefunctions don't have angular momentum, the atoms do, regardless of how cold they are (AKAIK).

    8. Re:Far Stringtopia by DoubleReed · · Score: 1

      Literally the coldest place? Pretty much anything we can do in the lab is probably gonna be reproduced naturally SOMEWHERE. That's why SETI had false alarms.
      Say some comet out in the middle of space at really really cold degrees K has a high pressure pocket of gas somewhere that suddenly vents to vacuum. That could potentially cool things down to those same levels.
      Any mechanism we create in a lab almost certainly happens naturally. The only reason this is important is to know that we aren't gonna blow up the universe/this planet by doing something "unnatural" in a physics experiment.

    9. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1
      Yes, it's called the ground state. And wavefunctions don't have angular momentum, the atoms do, regardless of how cold they are (AKAIK).

      I'm not sure the concept of ground state as you're thinking of it applies here. You can have a BEC without the wavefuction being a stationary state. I don't see why the ground state couldn't be a state with angular momentum (aside from spin) but I'm not sure. In any case, a wavefunction certainly can have angular momentum (i.e. nonzero expectation value for the L = r cross v operator).

    10. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it was literally the coldest place in the universe, barring another intelligent life form out there doing similar physics experiments at the same moment. It requires more than just vacuum and something like evaporative cooling. I can't say with certainty, but I doubt there's anything "naturally" occurring in the universe that would have the cooling power of a laser cooling apparatus.

    11. Re:Far Stringtopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but the whole point of it is that you can't tell the difference between the individual particles. The way they make it sound is as though not only can they create a vortex but also split it into it different components. That just doesn't sound right. Untill I get more scientific data and a much better explanation its kinda hard to believe this will work. But your right I shouldn't dismiss it. I know its just an analogy but I just can't see this analogy working.

    12. Re:Far Stringtopia by Matt+Edd · · Score: 1

      Actually there are theories that a BEC lives at the center of a black hole while the rest of the matter resides at the event horizon. Mathematically it looks (and acts) the same as black holes as we traditionally think of them now but does not have some of the "problems" that traditional theories have.

    13. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I hadn't heard of that. Thanks!

    14. Re:Far Stringtopia by DoubleReed · · Score: 1

      I am waaaay out of my depth, but it seems that natural lasers are pretty common.
      And apparently there is an observed nebula colder than the microwave background.
      And I mean that nebula is really really big, so maybe just the distibution of temperatures within it would allow for the possibility of really cold regions.
      Basically my argument is against your putting "naturally" in quotes. My thesis here is that there is nothing we can do which isnt reproduced by purely unintelligent processes. All we can do is organize things and tidy them up a bit to get useful work out of them.

    15. Re:Far Stringtopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that there is no reason to believe that this actually happens. It's easy to invent some solution of an equation with properties you like; it's quite another to show that it has anything to do with reality. There are good reasons to believe that this does not happen; it requires a very specially tuned equation of state, whereas the usual model of black hole formation in general relativity is proven to be very generic.

    16. Re:Far Stringtopia by birge · · Score: 1

      I see your point. However, my thesis was that given the tendency towards disorder, having local order arise to the huge extent neccessary for BEC seems unlikely without intelligence. But, you're right. I'm just guessing. Just don't underestimate our power to go against the thermodynamic gradient. Humans are basically entropy pumps.

    17. Re:Far Stringtopia by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 1

      I've never understood this 4K space temperature. Is there a medium involved? Is this the average temperature of all matter in interstellar space? Is this the temperature a body would take on thanks to ambient radiation?

    18. Re:Far Stringtopia by zerbot · · Score: 1

      Background microwave radiation.

    19. Re:Far Stringtopia by Matt+Edd · · Score: 1

      I did not present the theory to be taken as fact... only to show that there may be colder places that reside in the universe. And you're right, the usual model is generic... and classically derived. In my opinion it is silly to treat a black hole classically when trying to figure out what a black hole really is.

    20. Re:Far Stringtopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got in backwards: the fact that there aren't places that cold in the universe is one reason to believe that black holes aren't BECs: the "gravastar" model presupposes that a BEC has already formed, but the ambient environment of a collapsing star isn't cold enough for that to actually happen. And it's not silly to treat a black hole classically: the event horizon forms long before quantum gravity comes into play.

    21. Re:Far Stringtopia by DoubleReed · · Score: 1

      "Humans are basically entropy pumps." Heh that is awesome.

  21. char array by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's still a char array, no matter how sophisticated MSDN tries to make it sound.

    1. Re:char array by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's still a char array, no matter how sophisticated MSDN tries to make it sound.

      Real string theorists use wchar_t arrays

  22. Give me a break... by kavau · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory.

    The scientists are creating a system here that looks quite similar to superstring theory in some ways from a mathematical point of view. They have no way of observing "real" superstrings at these energies. While certainly interesting in its own right, this experiment can in no way provide experimental evidence that superstring theory really describes reality.

  23. Superstring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't you just puss the button on top of the can and the superstring sprays all over the lab?

  24. So last season... by kumachan · · Score: 1

    That is taken straight from that episode of Star Trek last season

  25. Add a smidgen of force.... by Solder+Fumes · · Score: 1

    Toss all this in a flashlight casing and some foggy-headed obscure physics nerd gets to be the first one to play Jedi.

  26. Uh huh by Shky · · Score: 2, Funny

    "The bosonic part of the superstring consists of this vortex line. Inside the vortex, they would trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic atoms. Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory."

    Pfft. Well, obviously.

    --
    CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
  27. polarity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have they tried reversing the polarity?

  28. Beneath all of the optimism... by leonbrooks · · Score: 1

    ...it looks like there's a few years yet before Vortex Cool Transportation Inc opens its first showrooms.

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  29. Ahh.. by bigattichouse · · Score: 2, Funny

    And if we channel a reverse impulse through the reflector dish, the superstring will disperse the space-time anomoly. Aren't you waiting for some of this quantum research to accidentally unleash a super-mega-quantum bomb.. "safety tip - avoid trying to look under God's skirts".

    --
    meh
    1. Re:Ahh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's not really a skirt, it's a kilt.

    2. Re:Ahh.. by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      Because it's not really a skirt, it's a kilt.

      That was my same thought; given his sense of humor, God just *has* to be an Irishman ;)

      Cheers!
      SB
      (Hey, "he" created bagpipes, incredible music that many loath. Heh)

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  30. MOD PARENT UP! by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This is an important point that I think the article really butchers: as far as I can tell (and I am a condensed matter physicist), they are *NOT* actually creating fundamental superstrings, i.e. those predicted by string theory. Rather, they are creating objects in BEC's that behave in exactly the same way as predicted by that theory.

    To use a computational analogy, they are simulating the equations of string theory using a BEC as the computer. So whatever results they get had better agree with string theory! They aren't actually testing whether these explain the world, just exploring the equations of string theory with an efficient computer -- the BEC.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by coma_bug · · Score: 1

      That's a pity. I was hoping string theory would finally come in from the cold... ahh... you know what I mean ;-)

    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by Mac+Degger · · Score: 1

      Heh...the first thing I thought when I read the blurb was 'come back when you've actually proven something'.

      Whilst what they're doing is very cool, I think the subject is only interesting to the mainstream (as opposed to the trade journals, where this /is/ very interesting) if and when they actually could use this method to prove/disprove the existence of strings. Or even just observe /indications/ of strings.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  31. Yes it is. by game+kid · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course it's possible to see symmetry between bosoms and females--

    (hears enraged Slashdotters worldwide screaming bosons and fermions)

    --what? nah, I've no idea about those.

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  32. Well, that's good by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

    The big problem with String theory is lack of experimental evidence (or even experiments) to prove it. It's detractors like to say it is just a religion with no proof. However, this looks more like an experiment to prove supersymmetry which doesn't necessarily prove string theory.

  33. You call yourself a science geek? by efuseekay · · Score: 1

    The fact that it sounds farfetch does not mean it is any less likely/unlikely that what is true.

    Yes, the high energy physics jargon is terrible and inviting ridicule such as yours. But, remember the Top, Bottom, Charm, Strange, or even the Big bang theory?

    The article is terribly written, but it has a link to the original arxiv scientific article. So you are welcomed to go try to understand it.

    Btw, this statement by you :
    I thought there was some disagreement about the existence of the multidimensional strings. Is that over now?

    is condescending and shows a lack of understanding of the scientific process.

    --
    Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
  34. Here's the Nova Special - watch it online by datafr0g · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

    All 3 hours of it are avaliable on PBS's website.
    It's amazing stuff.

    The book "The Elegant Universe" by Brain Greene is what the TV Special above is based on.
    Definitly worth a look at - if you enjoy the TV special, have a look around for the book... It goes into a LOT more detail.

    --
    "Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
    1. Re:Here's the Nova Special - watch it online by mpathetiq · · Score: 1

      I was trying to watch this the other night and it kept crashing firefox and IE using both quicktime alternative and real quicktime. GRR. anyone else experience this?

    2. Re:Here's the Nova Special - watch it online by Blublu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Try these direct links:

      Hour 1: 1, 2, 3 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
      Hour 2: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
      Hour 3: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,

      --
      meh
  35. MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is about time that string theory is exposed as the sham that it is!

  36. Forget Norway! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    More like Snoreway.

  37. Aha! by mcc · · Score: 1

    I knew Wil Wheaton had an account somewhere on slashdot, I was WONDERING what his username was!

    1. Re:Aha! by wowbagger · · Score: 1

      Except that Wil's account is CleverNickName, and ever since he set up his own web log he really hasn't been posting here much.

    2. Re:Aha! by zokum · · Score: 1

      Wil Wheaton's alias here is clevernickname I think.

      --
      Rest in peace Malin "looxn" Kristiansen. We miss you...
  38. Nice to measure something for a change by snarkasaurus · · Score: 1

    It will be rather nice to have an actual TEST of superstring theory that can prove or disprove something, rather than the usual hot gasses issuing from competing theorists.

    An ounce of experimental data is worth a ton of mathematics.

  39. Really? by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

    Wow, me and 'da guys were just tossing around that idea at the construction site during lunch just last week. Who wouldda thunk!

    --
    "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
  40. I hope they'll have no success. by sqar · · Score: 0, Troll

    I particularly dislike the string theories. If they could prove that string theories are right this would diminish my respect for god as a smart guy/girl/whatever. I hold the quantum-loop theory or the heim theory in much higher regards as they are smarter.

    http://www.heim-theory.com/Contents/contents.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heim-Theory

    regards, sqar

  41. Ummm... Reality check. by volsung · · Score: 5, Informative
    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but based on that article, this is NOT a test of supersymmetry or string theory in the sense the article blurb leads you to believe. (Surprised?) These physicists have thought up a clever way to create an analog to a superstring out of a macroscopic quantum system. The neat thing about condensed matter physics is that you can concoct systems that behave like more fundamental systems which you can't easily create. You can then test the implications of a particular mathematical model.

    So this is very cool (literally!) science, but NOT a test of superstring theory as a way to describe fundamental particles or interactions. At best, it will provide some interesting checks of the mathematical predictions of string-like theories, but only translated into this system. You still won't know if string theory has any hope of describing real electrons, photons, gravitons, etc.

  42. NOT *really* superstrings *or* supersymmetry! by dr.+loser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IAAP (I am a physicist), and again we have an physics article posted by someone who doesn't know the difference between reality and an analogy.

    The system that these folks propose to study (quantized vorticity in a Bose-Einstein condensate) can be described with the same type of mathematics that is used in superstring theory. The proposed experiments would test the validity of the math. These experiments would say nothing about whether the math of superstring theory is a valid description of the world!

    A similar situation would be the following: observing a weight on a spring would confirm the math behind simple harmonic oscillators. It would not, however, tell me anything about whether the vibrational modes of the sun obey those same equations.

    Analogy != equivalence!

    1. Re:NOT *really* superstrings *or* supersymmetry! by SinaSa · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who couldn't understand the article or this guys argument against it?

      --
      --
      The last digit of pi is four.
    2. Re:NOT *really* superstrings *or* supersymmetry! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That dude wrote that the sun vibrates. What's up with that?

      I think he should leave the garage door open when working on his car from now on.

  43. From wikipedia by PrivateDonut · · Score: 1

    Superstring Theory - Excerpt: "Superstring theory is an attempt to explain all of the particles and fundamental forces of nature in one theory by modeling them as vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings." How does this differ from String Theory?

    1. Re:From wikipedia by (el)Capitan.Nick · · Score: 1

      String Theory is just a shorthand name for Superstring Theory.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right." -Isaac Asimov
    2. Re:From wikipedia by oneiron · · Score: 1

      Initially, there was string theory. After it had been around for a while, other physicists came up with other versions of the theory that conflicted with the original. I think there were around 5 different conflicting "string theories". Then, some really weird looking dude who's probably the smartest human being alive came up with a single theory that sort of united the 5 conflicting theories. He named it "M" theory, but no one calls it that. Everyone just refers to it as string theory.

      Hope I got all that right...

    3. Re:From wikipedia by VStrider · · Score: 1


      I think there were around 5 different conflicting "string theories".

      They were not conflicting, the problem was that each was tackling the same problem from a different mathematical perspective.
      There are actually 6 "string" theories:
      Type-I, Type-IIA, Type-IIB, Heterotic-O, Heterotic-E and 11-D Supergravity.


      He named it "M" theory, but no one calls it that. Everyone just refers to it as string theory.

      You cann't really call it string theory cause you got alot more than strings there. You got "strings" of more than 1 dimension, which are called "branes" (think membranes). You can have a 2-brane (a 2 dimensional brane), a 3-brane and so on.

      --
      VStrider.
    4. Re:From wikipedia by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      It's called superstring theory, which no one has explained, because it's a supersymmetric string theory. Superstring, get it?

      There is no non-supersymmetric string theory right now that seems good, although there's no reason there couldn't be.

      I think there are still a few competing ones, but they are all supersymmetric.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    5. Re:From wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-supersymmetric string theories don't appear to be able to account for the existence of fermions.

  44. Duh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory." Where's the news? Any third-grader worth his salt could tell you this.

  45. Re:You call yourself a science geek? by GregoryKJohnson · · Score: 1

    Condescending? You could argue that it didn't adequately caputure the nuance of the process, but I'd hardly call it condescending. (And it's not entirely unreasonable, I'd argue, to wonder whether a consensus has developed about a particular matter.)

    Were you perhaps reading some snideness into the post that wasn't intended?

  46. I hope they dont "believe" in it either.... yet by deft · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Good scientitst might have a good feeling, a hunch, but are ready to be disproved so they can move on, because a negative value is just as good as a positive (if not as exciting).

    That beleive stuff is for tooth fairies and god(s) :)

    --

    There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
    1. Re:I hope they dont "believe" in it either.... yet by clean_stoner · · Score: 1
      From the grandparent:

      I am very curious to see if they will come up with anything.

      That sure sounds to me like he's open to the possibility of string theory being correct. While the use of the word "believe" may have offended your senses, I don't think he meant it in the religious sense of "faith." I think it was meant more as a "I don't buy it yet, due to lack of evidence."

      --

      Sigs are for the weak.

    2. Re:I hope they dont "believe" in it either.... yet by Fyz · · Score: 1

      However, scientists are also human beings, and when many of them dedicate their entire career to string theory, you might say that they have a little more than a 'good feeling'.

      Belief and faith are in my book two different things, and scientists believe a great many things. For a discussion of this see Edge Magazine.

      On another note, as many others have posted here, proof of supersymmetry is, unfortunately, not proof of strings. But it is a step closer to one. A physics professor explained to me once that to probe the Planck length, you'd need an energy far beyond anything available to humanity for millenia to come. Something like the entire energy production of a star in its entire lifetime. So unless someone makes a really ingenious hack for this, we'll be stuck here for a while.

      And if this one fails to provide supersymmetric particles, I have hopes that the Large Hadron Collider will.

    3. Re:I hope they dont "believe" in it either.... yet by quax · · Score: 1

      This is very much talking semantics, but I think it makes sense to say that theoretical physicists will not spend decades on an unproven theory if they do not strongly believe in its merits as a truthful representation of reality.

      Usage of the word 'believe' in this context should make clear that we are not talking about religious believes etc.

      I do not share the passion for superstrings. Personally I find the loop theory much more enticing.

      Anyway, I am glad that a superstring proponent finally came up with a way to test the theory.

  47. whatever this proves by Internet_Communist · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'm somewhat tired of these silly theories of everything thought up by pseudo-intellectuals by piling theories on top of theories.

    and then in the end someone will ask, where do strings come from? And you'll work out another 10 theories to figure that out, only until someone asks where whatever that came from as well.

    whether you put the blame on silly self-serving religious ideals or theorised theories of theories, I'll pick the third option: sun god.

    Oh wait.

    so yeah go prove superstrings or whatever. I still think the string theory is a big load of shit made up by people who idolize Einstein a little too much...maybe if these people thought for themselves they could see the obvious truth to things.

    --

    If you don't want someone to copy something, don't give it to anyone.
  48. Ack! by driftingwalrus · · Score: 1

    Great scott! That just sounded like a scene from star trek!

    --
    Paul Anderson
    "I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
    1. Re:Ack! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great scott! That just sounded like a quote from Back to the Future!

  49. These books went a long way towards helping... by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Though I haven't compleated it yet I'll got "The Elegant Universe. Richard Morris also wrote some good books before he died.

    Falcon
    1. Re: These books went a long way towards helping... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Though I haven't compleated it yet..."

      Have you at least seen "The Compleat Beatles?

    2. Re: These books went a long way towards helping... by mcleodnine · · Score: 1

      Close.

      "The Elegant Universe" is Brian Greene's book which Nova turned into a pretty decent two-part feature.

      --
      one better than mcleodeight
    3. Re: These books went a long way towards helping... by rokzy · · Score: 1

      Close.

      You missed the word "also".

    4. Re: These books went a long way towards helping... by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      http://motionmountain.dse.nl/

      also

      Actualy this one actualy gave me the solution to something that had been bugging me ever since university - the wave/particle paradox.

      All explained by this simple little experiment:

      The wavelike properties of an electron particle shown by firing a single electron particle at a youngs slit experiment giving rise to an wave like interference pattern on the other side of the double slits

      - its all because for a single electron particle there were two equaly possible histories - it could have gone through either slit, and the wave like interference pattern is just demonstrating the quantum probabalistic nature of the universe. The probability of the electron going through either slit is 1/2 so the historical evidence of the electrons path is just like it went through either slit - and the only sort of evidence we have for something coming through both slits is an interference patteren from a wave.

      I'm so glad all thats cleared up, now I know that sometimes particles look like waves - when quantum probability enters the equation. Its so simple Jim - even a child could understand it!

      fun book though, through the link, very hitchikers, but like for real.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
  50. Girl, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be an Einstein-Rosen bridge because after I come in you I'm going to be somewhere else.

  51. one dimensional ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    uh.er. just what in the meat world is one dimensional

  52. Swoit by Z0a9 · · Score: 1

    Woah, hearing news like that just makes my day.

  53. This is a very good example by cryptocom · · Score: 1

    ...of why you should take everything you read/see/hear from journalists with a grain of salt. Nine times out of ten, they will either be overdramatizing, underestimating, or inaccurately representing key facts.

    --
    It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
  54. Re: Why was this posted? by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 2, Insightful
    this is the first experiment that could confirm the existence or non existance of super strings.

    Frankly, I'm a little bit annoyed by the treatment of scientific theories as 'absolute truths'. It's been a while since I studied physics, but basically, it works as follows:

    You have empirical evidence: things you can feel, touch, hear, smell, see, etc. Beyond that, you have NOTHING. To be more precise: speculation (theory). The best theories are simply the ones that best, or most easily explain empirical findings (what you can see, touch, smell, etc.)

    So the power of say, Einstein's relativity theories is not that they're 'true', but that they are theories that offer the most simple, and/or general explanation of everything we can see, hear, feel, etc. On a scale ranging from sub-atomic to inter-galactic.

    Not that I'm trying to bash the parent poster in any way. I would be thrilled if something like the String Theory would gain in strength. But why? Not because it would be 'true', but because it could offer a single, unifying explanation about an incredible number of phenomena we see, feel, hear, measure, etc. A minimal set of rules that explains how our universe works. And (between the lines) offer some hints about the true nature of our universe.

    But in the end: THEORY. Because I can't feel atoms or sub-atomic particles, or know anyone that can. Nor can I touch gravity waves, or imagine the speed of light in my head. But a few (relatively, no pun intended) simple rules that explain everything I could ever see, touch, hear, smell or feel, would be really, really awesome.
  55. curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone tell me what a superstring is made of then? And if you know that, whats the stuff that makes up them made of?

    etc etc....thanks.

    1. Re:curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why - Jebus JIZZ, of course!

      What were you expecting? something smaller? Nope: nothing smaller than drops of Jebus Jizz.

      Ask Waldo if you can find him.

      AC

    2. Re:curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In superstring theory, superstrings aren't made of anything else: they are the fundamental objects from which all else are made. That's rather the point of string theory.

  56. You fool, don't jinx it by Urusai · · Score: 0

    Phenomena such as this often fail to manifest in the presence of skeptics. I suggest we hold a prayer vigil to ensure their success.

  57. Mmmmm! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Love modern theoretical physics. It reads a lot like ST:TNG scripts. If there were more hot babe theoretical physicists, they'd get higher ratings.

  58. So in other words? by mcc · · Score: 1

    So, reading your post and some other posts in this thread, this is the impression I have got, please tell me if it is correct or incorrect:

    If this experiment works, it will not prove superstring theory. But if the experiment DOESN'T work, it will DISPROVE or seriously hamper superstring theory?

    1. Re:So in other words? by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      If I predict that the outcome of an experiment is A then the experiment can work regardless of whether I get the expected outcome. If the experiment doesn't work it means that you didn't do it correctly. Maybe you didn't rule out interfering factors, or the power dropped out at a vital moment or you knocked the apparatus.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    2. Re:So in other words? by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1
      you've misunderstood. All this does is simulate the equations of string theory. It could help in making predictions -- the same way that climate simulations help make predictions -- which could be used to falsify string theory, but in no way tests it.

      They are not creating superstrings as in fundamental-building-blocks superstrings. Rather, just an emulation of them in BEC's which obey the same equations that string theory says govern strings. So there's nothing to disprove; they are testing real objects against the equations of string theory, they are building a device guaranteed to simulate string theory.

  59. Jules Verne is an figment of my imagination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its more likely we're a figment of Jules Verne's imagination.

  60. Obligatory Family Guy quote by takeya · · Score: 1

    Dennis Miller: I don't wanna go on a rant here but America's foreign policy makes about as much sense as Beowolf having sex with Robert Fulton at the first Battle of Antetum. I mean when a neo-conservative defenstrates it's like Raskalnakov filibuster dioxymonohydrostinate.
    Peter: What the hell does rant mean?

  61. Hot babes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hot babe theoretical physicists? Or were you thinking of these ones?

  62. blah by ta+ma+de · · Score: 1

    They better make sure to decouple the eps manifold and realign the tachion emitters such that the polarity of the warp field doesn't collapse.

  63. Re:Ummm... Reality check. by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    Yup. There are quite a few physical systems one can devise theoretically that are supersymmetric but that don't imply that the universe itself has supersymmetric equations of motion.

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  64. binary2matter.exe ? by v3xt0r · · Score: 0

    I want to download groceries and convert them from binary to matter. I think it would make pr0n a LOT more interactive too, but until then, you can't impress me w/ your nano particles and sub-servient vortexes.

    --
    the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
  65. Hey at least it's not harry fucking potter by TheLittleJetson · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'd rather it be over my head than below me.

  66. Superstring or M-theory? by Daath · · Score: 1

    I thought that it was called M-Theory now? (Simplified here).
    As some of you know, there are five superstring theories - M-theory was supposed to "unite" these theories, so to speak. The difference between these superstring theories, is in how the implement supersymmetry, so I guess that this experiment, would somehow point us to which of the five theories are ...most correct?
    I am in way over my head here, but perhaps someone is more knowledgable here ;)

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
  67. Re:You call yourself a science geek? by jericho4.0 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Get out of your ivory tower. Any group of scientists can snipe, gossip, and backstab one another to rival teenage girls.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  68. Non-geeks have known this for ages by Psionicist · · Score: 1

    1. Find lady in pub.
    2. ???
    3. Observe supersring.

    What I'm interested is the ??? stage, but if physisicts can't do it how can I.

    1. Re:Non-geeks have known this for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > 1. Find lady in pub.
      > 2. ???
      > 3. Observe superstring.

      1. Find lady in pub.
      2. Ask her out to dinner a few times (preferably McDonalds)
      3. Observe superstring.

  69. Or they could try.. by musakko · · Score: 1
    The bosonic part of the superstring consists of this vortex line. Inside the vortex, they would trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic atoms. Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory."

    If it doesn't, they could always try reversing the polarity. It's a million-to-one shot, but it just might work..

  70. Re: Why was this posted? by prgrmr · · Score: 1

    But in the end: THEORY. Because I can't feel atoms or sub-atomic particles

    Sure you can.

    Lick your fingers, then with the same hand grab a fork and stick it in the nearest electrical socket. You'll be feeling all sorts of sub-atomic particles.

    But seriously, you don't consider bubble chamber photos or electron microscope photos of atoms as conclusive enough, albeit vicarious, touching of atoms and sub-atomic particles to dispense with some of the caveating about atomic theory?

  71. A physicist? Great! by Markus+Registrada · · Score: 1

    Brian Greene in two whole books never answered the question: is there any reason, beyond wishful thinking, to believe that the coupling constant isn't exactly 1?

  72. You're a physicist? Great! by Markus+Registrada · · Score: 1

    Brian Greene, in two whole books, never answered the question: is there any reason beyond wishful thinking to believe that the coupling constant isn't exactly 1?

  73. Condensate not condensation. by baomike · · Score: 1

    I weep to see it.

    1. Re:Condensate not condensation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm so glad someone else spotted it.

      Unless maybe they've got their Boses and their Einsteins all steamy...

      --
      "Albert Einsein was a ladies man [...] he was making out like Charlie Sheen - he was a genius" Warren Zevon

  74. Nova special by baomike · · Score: 1

    I thought it was a little hard to follow , but I always have had a hard time with 11 dimensional space. The UofW science channel had a better one.

  75. Re:A physicist? Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why should it be? It isn't in any other theory. And it would disagree with experiment.

  76. Re: Why was this posted? by khallow · · Score: 2, Informative
    You'll be feeling all sorts of sub-atomic particles.

    Incorrect! He'll feel electromagnetic fields coursing through his body. This is a valuable experience of one of the four fundamental forces of the universe (jumping out of a fifth story building would give exposure to gravity and technically the strong force though breaking your knuckles with a visegrip is a better demonstration of that force) so it's all to the good. The actual transfer of subatomic particles will be negligiable though. A better choice for him would be putting a highly radioactive isotope in his pants.

  77. Re:A physicist? Great! by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1
    It wouldn't agree with experiment...

    also, there are many coupling constants...

  78. ...thus providing... by radtea · · Score: 1

    ...the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory."

    Or not.

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  79. I'm afraid... by snuf23 · · Score: 1

    That I just don't possess the "Branes" to understand this superstring theory.

    --
    Sometimes my arms bend back.
    1. Re:I'm afraid... by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      huck huck huck.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    2. Re:I'm afraid... by ultracool · · Score: 1

      ROFL

  80. Translation please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn, even Babelfish has no idea what to do with it.

  81. Exploring Superstrings in the Lab.. by ErZo · · Score: 1

    Exploring Superstrings in the Lab... I really misunderstood that. strings.. super... Labs( ?! ) Heh.
    Thanks for the laughs :)

    --
    In the Soviet Union, signatures writes you!
  82. Re:Why was this posted? by sbillard · · Score: 1

    ...up until now most work on String Theory has been unable to provide a working way to test it. this could easily change the face of theoretical physics in the labs...
    Wouldn't such a test represent a shift of String Theory from "theorhetical" into "applied" physics?
    How, exactly, do you change the face of theorectical physics?

  83. a layman view on a Boson by SlashDread · · Score: 1

    "Bosons are also the only particles which can occupy the same state as another."

    Ok this is cool shit. This means that bosons fall throught the table. Literally. Do not put a boson in your pocket, you will loose it! The practical uses for it are stunning! Keys your are garanteed to loose!

  84. whozawhatsa? by Atilla · · Score: 1

    Hopefully this will allow observation of the supersymmetry between bosons and fermions, thus providing the first experimental evidence to support superstring theory.

    precisely! after all, A gleekzorp without a tornpee is like a quop without a fertsneet (sort of).

    --
    --- sig moved for great justice.
  85. Re:A physicist? Great! by Markus+Registrada · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't agree with experiment? What experiment? Last I heard nobody had managed to think of any way to test any aspect of string theory in (any existing) lab.

    All Greene had to say about the value of the coupling constant he was on about was that everybody hoped it was small, because otherwise the approximations everybody is using would be way off; and that the closer it was to 1, the less like any of the current formulations the final string theory would be.

    Might this experiment be expected actually to nail down a coupling constant (or two)?

  86. PBS Online String Theory Mini-series by repetty · · Score: 1

    PBS has a wonderful layman-oriented mini-series on string theory online -- several hours of professional quality video presentation.

    I highly recommend it as it also gives a nice background into the development of string theory and Very Important People.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

  87. Re:Ummm... Reality check. by cheshiremackat · · Score: 1

    As the saying goes... You must be new here, right???

    Since when are the slashdot summaries in any way related to the content of TFA?

    P.S. for the unobservant, the parent has a 3 digit UID.

    --
    Bad spellers of the world untie!
  88. Re:A physicist? Great! by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1

    you must be thinking either of the cosmological constant or some coupling constant I am not aware of. Many coupling constants (those for the strong interaction or quantum electrodynamics, for example) are quite well tested.

  89. Supersymmetric? by binkzz · · Score: 1

    Supersymmetric? Superstrings? Can we not make words up please, we're all adults here. How can supersymmetric be more symmetric than symmetric? ! one+one = supertwo!

    --
    'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
    1. Re:Supersymmetric? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, In algebra supersymmetric refers to relations like this one:

      ab = -ba

      Not the happiest name, I agree

    2. Re:Supersymmetric? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am completely ignorant of pretty much any term in the slashdot article.

      Good for my humbleness for sure

  90. A One Dimensional Vortex? by pallmall1 · · Score: 1

    How can a one dimensional object create a vortex, let alone be rotated. Both events require more than one spatial dimension, and also occur in time.

    Maybe they meant a "thin string" of condensate? Or would that be to understandable to us morons?

    --
    3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
    1. Re:A One Dimensional Vortex? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one-dimensional object is the vortex. Rotation doesn't require more than one spatial dimension, or even one spatial dimension: zero-dimensional point particles can have spin too.

      An infinitely-thin string of condensate is the mathematical model for a vortex, but in reality, they have a little bit of thickness. True superstrings don't, though.

    2. Re:A One Dimensional Vortex? by pallmall1 · · Score: 1

      Rotation and quantum spin aren't the same. See http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/S/Sp /Spin_(physics).htm for a nice reference. Quantum spin may not require dimensions, but rotation does. The article may have inadvertently confused spin and rotation.

      The concept of the vortex as a one dimensional object does, on the surface (pun intended), make sense to me, though.

      --
      3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
    3. Re:A One Dimensional Vortex? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spin arises from the irredicible representations of the rotation group. A 1D object can have spin and rotate: what has to be higher-dimensional is the space the object exists in, not the object itself.

  91. Simple Test of Quantium Electro Dynamics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is an example of a simple test of a physical phemonom. ( well besides the fast that my M and N keys are reversed ...)

    How to demonstrate Q.E.D. Theory.

    Classic mechanics says light reflects at the angle of incedent. ( Angle of incident = Angle of Reflection ). Quantium Electrodynamics says that this is true excpet for the edge of reflected surfaces...so... if you gathered many edges of reflected surfaces together... then, by classical dynamics you would only see the reflection, and by Quantium Electrodynamics, you would see the sum of the path intergrals of the light. i.e. a rainbow.

    Experment: Hold up a common computer CD and look at the reflected light. if you see a perfect mirror, then classical dynamics holds. If you see a rainbow, then you are seening a phenomonon who's very existance verifies Quantium Electrodynamics behaivor of light.

    This is an example of an experment, done outside the lab, that can verify a fundememtal principal of physics. Thank you James Gleick for writing 'Genius' and the line at the DMV for giving me the opportunity ot read it.

    "Quantized vortices were first seen in superfluid helium." Then Richard Feynman would have had an inkling of what that phenomon was. All you need to show String theory outside the lab, is a observiable phenomonon that you can see in liquid Helium. Bring me 2 glasses of Super Fuild Helium.

    Sturred, not shaken. ( Round of Applause. )

  92. Question: your opinions about Heim Physics? by ardor · · Score: 1

    Anyone knows about the works of Burkhard Heim? That guy developed a theory which seems to be capable of predicting the mass of all particles, for example, among other things. Yet it is virtually unknown, partly because of it being written in German and not released for public peer-reviewing (it is being translated in English now), partly because of its formidable math. The AIAA awarded his paper as the "paper of the year 2005". Early mistakes as of it being unable to predict the top quark apparently have been fixed. Anyone got more? While he did release his work on a esoteric publisher, I do think his work has some relevance.

    Why I mention that? His physics address the same thing as superstrings, the Theory of Everything.

    --
    This sig does not contain any SCO code.
  93. Re:Why was this posted? by zerbot · · Score: 1

    After watching that Nova special, I'm left wondering what the market for "I am Sparticle" T-shirts would be in the physics community.

  94. Why didn't I think of this? by Bemmu · · Score: 1

    "...utilizing Bose-Einstein condensation (BEC). A one-dimensional BEC in an optical lattice is rapidly rotated, causing a quantized vortex to form. The bosonic part of the superstring consists of this vortex line. Inside the vortex, they would trap an ultracold cloud of fermionic..."

    Yes, of course! Just like general relativity and the uncertainty principle, this is one of those things that feels just SO obvious in retrospect.

  95. Greene seems sleazy by DoubleReed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    STRING THEORY IS NOT A THEORY, IT MAKES NO PREDICTIONS
    This may not be fair, but Greene struck me as kind of sleazy. Notice how he is both the narrator of the show, and also one of the people being interviewed. Also notice how he breezes past making concrete predictions.
    Maybe this criticism isn't fair, and this is how all revolutionary theories look when they are young. But it just struck me that Greene was presenting this stuff as though it was allready laid in stone. He basically tells the narrative story of the triumph of string theory, going from a graduate students pet theory to... a bunch of theorists' pet theory.
    String theory hasnt triumphed, isnt even in a position that it is possible for it to triumph yet. So what is Greene praising so boldly? A highly speculative area which is at this point only of interest to pure theorists, since it has (as of yet) zero predictive powers.
    At one point I think the lack of evidence gets so painful that he points out that there are alot of researchers working in the field of string theory now. The number is just kind of dropped vaguely like "hundreds of researchers".
    The best argument he has for its validity is that it looks promising to alot of people. After all this talk about how modern physics is so confusing and counter-intuitive he circles around and uses intuition (admittedly professional intuition)to justify why this new way of doing things is better.

    1. Re:Greene seems sleazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course string theory makes predictions. However, the only unambiguous predictions it makes are at the string scale, which is probably at the Planck scale, which we can't probe. String theory can make predictions at scales we can probe, but not unambiguously.

      So, basically, I agree with you, as long as you amend "zero predictive powers" to "zero useful, unambiguous predictive powers, right now".

      However, it's ridiculous to say that string theory is not a theory. It's a very highly developed theory.

    2. Re:Greene seems sleazy by squatex · · Score: 1

      No he does not really make any predictions. What Green does do extremly well is explain the ins and outs of string theory in lamens terms so that non-physisist such as myself can gain a minimal understanding of it.

      Seriously the Nova docu doesnt do the book justice.

    3. Re:Greene seems sleazy by VStrider · · Score: 1

      I recommend you read the book; all this material cann't be presented in a TV show.

      Sure, string theory and M-theory has zero predictive powers as of yet, but it won't stay like this forever. Many theories have no predictive powers or no usefull applications when they are in their infancy.

      What he praises is a theory that could explain how the universe works...and one that actually makes sense and does away with all the incompatibilities between quantum physics and general relativity.

      --
      VStrider.
    4. Re:Greene seems sleazy by zerbot · · Score: 1

      Did you watch the entire series? They go back repeatedly to the fact that no one has figured out how to test it yet. Numerous interviewees (pro string people even) talk about it, and how it's all very nice but it is important to find a way to test it. They talk about how it has happened before that very pretty, very popular theories have ended up being bunk before.

      I see lots of potential holes in it, but since a lot of detail can be lost in translating complex things into analogies, I'll reserve opinion for now.

    5. Re:Greene seems sleazy by DoubleReed · · Score: 1

      You are right, I must admit my understanding is very very basic. The main thing that irks me, is WHY WHY WHY is this being trumpeted out to laymen?
      As you say this theory is in its infancy. Meaning, highly speculative many things could change overnight.
      So, what ends up happening is this stuff gets thrown out there, then it changes. And all the laymen are left going "silly physicists, they never know what they are talking about, always jumping to conclusions."
      And the view of the entire physics community goes down a notch. Thats why Greene strikes me as sleazy. I dont mean for this to sound elitist, but someone who doesn't allready have a fairly advanced understanding of physics has no business looking into string theory at this point. It would be far more productive to try to understand well established physical principles.
      So I disapprove because at this point it is not concrete enough for people not involved in that field to bother with it.

    6. Re:Greene seems sleazy by DoubleReed · · Score: 1

      String theory has been around for two decades now. How long does "infancy" last?

  96. STRING THEORY IS NOT A THEORY by DoubleReed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    STRING THEORY IS NOT A THEORY. A THEORY MAKES PREDICTIONS

    String theory is just a bunch of theoretical constructs which may some day be put together into something useful.
    Imagine the concept of "forces" without F=ma. "All the motion we see is actually caused by these things called forces, really. Every time something moves a force was involved."
    Pretty useless, it basically is just a tautology: small things aren't electrons and quarks etc, they are actually strings. Every time you see anything it isn't what you think it is, it is really a string or group of strings which happen to behave exactly like what you think it is. Great. So... what?
    Alot of people seem to be excited because of the mathematical richness of this area. I am not even nearly competent to evaluate this directly, but thinking back to basic proofs that everyone has done in highschool, if you slip up you end up proving something like "0=0". Maybe this promising mathematical complexity is purely in the math and has no physical meaning. The 21st century equivalent of epicycles.

    1. Re:STRING THEORY IS NOT A THEORY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      One prediction string theory makes is that if you probe the string scale, you will see that everything is made up of strings, not particles! Strings interact differently than particles do, and if we had a super-duper particle accelerator, we could see that. Unfortunately, we don't. But it is not a tautology: it has consequences which are, in principle, observable, and distinct from non-string theories.

  97. Too bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's no BEC in one dimension.

  98. Half Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone say "Black Mesa?"

  99. They made that up by squoozer · · Score: 1

    I swear the submitter should start writting scripts for Star Trek or something.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
  100. Re: Why was this posted? by prgrmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Incorrect! He'll feel electromagnetic fields coursing through his body

    Are you forgetting wave-particle duality? The electromagnetic force is transmitted by electrons, which are subatomic particles. Along with gluons and photons they are bosons, IIRC.

  101. M-theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, I've just finished watching BBC documentary few seconds before this slashdot post.

    And it sure seamed to me they figured it all out. First there was mighty elegant string theory, and everyone went down that path becouse it was soooo beautyfull. Few strange math calculations later, ups there were 10 dimensions and 5 string theories, so everyone thought "i've just spent 10 years of my life on something completely useless". However there was one lonely sad looking guy pursuing something he called Supergravity, essentially an abandoned concept, and he was saying all the time that there are 11 dimensions, of course, being ridiculed by all the others. But when shit started to happen with string theory, someone said, OK, lets try this puppy in 11 dimensions, and everything started to magically work then, with 5 different String theories being just different manifestation of one when looking from 11th dimension. There was one problem though, Strings sitting in 11 dimensions arent strings at all, they are actually (mem)branes. So, here comes "M" theory, Membrane, Mystical, Mother,even Mad theory.

    Then one chick comes, and with nothing else smarter to do in her life, starts to investigate why oh why is gravity so weak. Logical and obvious answer is that there are parallel universes. Now everybody shouts "aaaaahhh" and starts putting parallel universes into their equations, and all those equations look simple and more beautifull than ever, and here we have a Multiverse, with our universe beeing mere one of infinite number of bubbles in it.

    Now, that wasn't enough, of course, and someone had to ask "can this super elegant "M" theory tell me what exactly happened BEFORE and DURING Big Bang", and they all turned their heads to that supersmart, once sad and lonely Supergravity-universe-is-made-of-11-dimensions guy, and there was he with and obvious answer: (mem)branes DO NOT float peacefully in 11th dimension, they are more like a wild ocean, and when they touch (colide?), a big bang is triggered, and there we have another Universe. Which, of course, doesn't have to have the same laws of physics as our own.

    And then there was a young weird geeky looking guy in his basement with a computer, that started to explein how he and one of his friends decidet to try to build an universe of their own in their basement, and that it is completely doable, and actually pretty safe (so we can all try this at home).

    So, in short, after watching all that, I thought that they are pretty sure everything is in its place now, however it is so strange it is better to keep it secret, thats why probably one Japanese bloke was skating all the way through the show, which is what I'll be learning now I know the truth about our pshysicall reallity.

    1. Re:M-theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "one lonely sad looking guy pursuing something he called Supergravity": Michael Duff?
      "someone said, OK, lets try this puppy in 11 dimensions": Edward Witten
      "Then one chick comes": Lisa Randall (along with Raman Sundrum)
      "and there was he with and obvious answer": that doesn't sound like Duff, sounds more like Paul Steinhardt et al., with the "ekpyrotic universe"
      "a young weird geeky looking guy in his basement with a computer,": no idea
      "one Japanese bloke": Michio Kaku?

    2. Re:M-theory by pallmall1 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the way Carl Sagan et. al. came up with the wormhole for his book Contact.

      It's amazing how creative people can be when it makes them look good.

      --
      3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
  102. Uh Oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pooped my pants

  103. Re: Why was this posted? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    To a scientist it would, to a silopsist it wouldn't.

  104. Re: Why was this posted? by geordieboy · · Score: 1

    You recall incorrectly. Not insightful, sorry

    --
    The world is everything that is the case
  105. Re:Why was this posted? by TheGavster · · Score: 1

    For once, they actually posted 'news for nerds'. And, if you're receptive to the idea that the universe is made out of these superstrings, as opposed to say, god-breath, it's 'stuff that matters' as well.

    --
    "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
  106. Poetry by jeremiahstanley · · Score: 1

    But do the Bosons write poetry?

  107. Don't worry Frinky.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A one-dimensional BEC in an optical lattice is rapidly rotated, causing a quantized vortex to form.
    It'll be years before they discover the PICKLE matrix!

  108. One minor clarification... by jpflip · · Score: 1

    This is correct, if you take "Relativistic Physics" to mean "general relativity". Special relativity and quantum mechanics have been consistent since the 1950s - that's what quantum field theory is. In fact, quantum electrodynamics (the relativistic theory of electromagnetism) is the most precise theory in science, predicting certain numbers correctly to something like a dozen decimal places.

    The problem is general relativity, the profound extension of special relativity to produce a relativistic theory of gravity. This has serious problems meshing with quantum mechanics, and this is what string theory is supposed to address.

    I agree with the post, just trying to clarify!

  109. are superstrings "scientific" by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Scientific results are testable to see if they are correct or not. Until recently superstrings were so exotic, or had so many free parameters to fit any data, that they could neither be verified or discounted. Hopefully an experiment like this can test the hypothesis of superstrings.

  110. Sign Change Implies Particle Distinguishability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IIRC the presence of the sign change (in the composite wavefunction) means that the original particle and the "interchanged" particle are distinguishable (by their sign). Whereas in the case where no sign change occurs, we have nothing to tell us that the particle is different from the original.

    1. Re:Sign Change Implies Particle Distinguishability by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1

      No. ANY property required under particle change (either changing sign like fermions or remaining invariant like bosons) comes from indistinguishable, identical particles. If the particles are distinguishable, there are *no* requirements after a sign change. That is, after interchanging the two particles, the wavefunction could be completely different: not identical, not differing by merely a sign change, but of a completely different functional form.

    2. Re:Sign Change Implies Particle Distinguishability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's incorrect: a sign change, being a special case of a phase change, is not physically distinguishable (probabilities, not probability amplitudes, are measurable).

  111. Why do we interchange the two wavefunctions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is, what is the physical meaning of doing that?

    1. Re:Why do we interchange the two wavefunctions? by Dr.+Weird · · Score: 1

      Its just interchanging the two particles. It's literally the same as if you had taken the two particles and by hand switched their two positions.

  112. Lexx by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

    790: It makes little difference whether or not you destroy this planet. It is a classic type 13 planet, which typically destroys itself at this stage of its development.

    Xev: How?

    790: Sometimes through war, often through environmental catastrophe. But more commonly, a type 13 planet is inadvertently collapsed into a pea-sized object by scientists attempting to determine the mass of the Higgs boson particle.

  113. "The Compleat Beatles" by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Yeap, someone gave "The Compleat Beatles" to me as a gift. Though I don't have them anymore I used to have a collection of Beatles LPs, most of them. My fav was probably the "White Album".

    Falcon
  114. Re:You call yourself a science geek? by coastwalker · · Score: 1

    Remember The Stranglers "Quark Stangeness and Charm"?

    --
    Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
  115. Re: Why was this posted? by midav · · Score: 1
    Did you do it on purpose?

    Electromagnetic force is transmitted by photons (remember those wavy lines between interacting electrons' pathes on Feinman diagrams?)

    About electrons being bosons. We have elements with different chemical properties precisely because any two electrons being fermions can not share the same quantum state inside the atom (Pauli's Principle,) which forces them to occupy states with higher and higher energies thus giving rise to the chemical diversity.

    Finally, wave particle-duality has nothing to do with the particle being bosons or fermions. It arises from combination of two simple formulae E=mc^2 and E=h nu. Solve them for nu, then divide speed of light c by it and you'll get the corresponding wavelength. Using this simple procedure you can find wavelengthes of anything (even your boss - just to show her how insignificant she is as a wave :).

  116. Your wish is my command... by Cletus+the+yokel · · Score: 1

    Still doesn't make sense though...


    A recipe for making strings in the lab

    11 May 2005

    Theoretical physicists in the Netherlands have proposed a way to make g-strings in the laboratory. If their idea can be put into practice, it would allow aspects of string theory to be explored in an experiment for the first time. The new approach relies on exploiting the properties of ultracold atomic gases (arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0505055).

    String theorists attempt to explain all the fundamental particles as vibrations on tiny strings on length scales of about 10-33 metres. The theory naturally includes "supersymmetry" - a symmetry that connects particles with integer spin, known as bosoms, to particles with half-integer spin, which are known as females. The particles that carry the fundamental forces of nature, such as the photon and the gluon, are bosoms, while the quarks and leptons that make up matter are females. Although g-string theory is the leading candidate for a theory of everything, there is no experimental evidence to date for strings or supersymmetry.

    Now Michiel Snoek, Masudul Haque, Stefan Vandoren and Henk Stoof of Utrecht University have proposed making a "non-relativistic Green-Schwarz g-string" by trapping an ultracold cloud of femaleic atoms along the core of a quantized vortex in a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC). A BEC is a special state of matter in which all the particles are in the same quantum ground state. bosomic atoms such as rubidium-87 can enter such as state because, unlike females, they do not obey the Pauli exclusion principle.

    The bosomic part of the g-string would consist of a vortex line created by rapidly rotating a one-dimensional BEC in an optical lattice (see figure). Next, a gas of female atoms, such as potassium-40, would be trapped within this vortex, which is possible under certain conditions. Snoek and colleagues say that it should be possible to observe the supersymmetry between the females and bosoms by carefully tuning the interactions between the two types of atom with a laser.

    Quantized vortices were first seen in superfluid helium. They are formed inside a rotating superfluid when it begins to spin faster than a certain critical speed. In the mid-1990s it was suggested that these vortices could simulate the formation of cosmic strings in the early universe.

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  117. Careful, dude... by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 1
    What they could do is enlarge the superstring so they can observe it without a microscope and all that bother. Unfortunately, since the thing vibrates at incredibly high speeds and bounces around like crazy, they'll have to be careful or it'll snap their head off.

    In other words, be careful, folks... you're playing in God's realm, and He might not like that.

  118. Re:Why was this posted? by RM6f9 · · Score: 1

    And if they should happen to prove the string, then give it a tug, would our little corner of the multiverse start to unravel?
    I'm going to go wallow in the welcome mundanity of warm cookies and cold milk now...

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  119. Quick! by zeus_tfc · · Score: 2, Funny

    Quick, somebody get me a pre-schooler to explain that to me. I can't make heads or tails of it.

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