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Alan Moore Pulls LOEG From DC Comics
Mark Andrich writes "In its return from a sabbatical, Lying In The Gutters reports that Alan Moore, author of the V For Vendetta comic, has publically disassociated himself from the movie of the same name, and disputes claims of support made by Joel Silver. As a result, he has also pulled the League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen comic book series from Warner owned DC Comics, and is handing it to two small press publishers in the US and the UK. And in the subsequent mood of elation, has announced his engagement to long term partner Melinda Gebbie."
Kindly refer to them as LOEG brand toy bricks.
Now where do the funnies come from?
Anyone else read that and wonder how he pulls legos from comics?
Then came the dissapointment that the story wasn't actually about Legos.
After that came the denial, I double checked that the story wasn't about legos.
It isn't.
My journey to the Nerd Side is complete. I actually knew what the article was about.
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really acted since Leon (at age 12), I for one am glad that Moore is pulling support. Personally, I didn't want this movie made either. I had finally decided that this year I would be V for Halloween (I like being obscure people for Halloween) and then I heard about the movie being released on November 5th... and changed my mind.
Go, Alan!
Why do I M2 everything negatively?
Alan Moore appears to be one of those creative-genius types that will stick to his principles even in the face of fistfulls of cash. Sort of like the comic book version of Harlan Ellison, except taller and slightly less angry.
What's not to like about that?
because these comic book to big screen movies are much better when the original creator is involved. I think that Frank Miller really helped keep Sin City true to the books.
Alan Moore has had at least three movies made from his work recently, and he has seemed relatively okay with having details and stories changed around. I wonder what specifically now has made him change his mind.
The main complaint about Hollywood is that they are taking the edginess out of his works and producing "pulp" thrillers. But Alan Moore's own works recently have been less focused on being all edgy and underground and more on being fun...witness the "Tom Strong" series. So is this an issue of commercialization?
Or was "Hellblazer" just that bad?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
I had finally decided that this year I would be V for Halloween (I like being obscure people for Halloween) and then I heard about the movie being released on November 5th...
Since when is Guy Fawkes obscure?
The casting is at least interesting http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/fullcredits#wr iters- Hugo "Agent Smith" Weaving as V.? I dunno if I can picture that. Then again, V. is a creepy mofo and Weaving can do that well. Personally I coulda seen John Malkovich in the role. Natalie Portman- well, damn, you can't go wrong there.
You can't take Moore disavowing the movie one way or the other: he disavows all his film offspring. On the other hand, thus far they haven't exactly done him proud, either.
He did this over the V for Vendetta movie, but not the horrible League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie?
Was V for Vendetta really [i]that[/i] bad? Or was he just paying less attention to the LOEG movie during preproduction? Or did he just really, really want the money from the LOEG movie?
As I understand, only a big name like Alan Moore can get the kind of contracts where retention of ownership is even possible. At least, that's the case when dealing with big houses like DC/WB.
Back when Image first debuted their line of comics, they trumpeted how the creative elements actually got to keep their creations. Popular titles like Spawn, The Maxx, Gen13, and Witchblade soon followed. Made pretty good money, as I recall.
I think Image died recently though, didn't they? If not in name then in spirit? Gotta look that up. I'm not in the scene anymore...
So at what point were you hoping not to be rude?
They're just going to ruin V For Vendetta. I'll eat my hat if the Lesbian Valerie's story is told.
He was one of the founders of the sport now known as Ultimate Frisbee.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
No, the creative genius in this case, got the shaft. V for Vendetta is going to get made, but its not going to get made with the input of the creative genius, in this case V for Vendetta. So society is rewarded with a half assed movie not endorsed by the creator. A good example of IP rights, the way you are thinking is Frank Miller's Sin City, where the original artist, Frank Miller had input toward the final creation of the movie.
Problem is, many innovators (especially in the arts) don't have the skills to take their products to a wide audience on their own. There's a reason beyond just "cashing in" that someone would choose to option their idea to a corporation-- Marketing, publishing and distribution are difficult and daunting tasks. And it's easy to say "go with an indie film company-publishing-record label-whatever", but these companies' abilities to actually sell product vary wildly.
So yeah, up-and-coming artists, writers etc. should realize the value of their ideas and protect themselves from being screwed in the future. They should enter every business deal with a good lawyer, and consider working with reputable "indie" companies rather than a big name giants. And most importantly, those who have "made it" should look out for the little guy and do what they can to fight for creator's rights.
unless someone is pulling my LOEG.
It's not arrogance when you actually are a brilliant and skilled creator in your field. Alan Moore is, in his medium, probably the best living writer. Neil Gaiman and Warren Ellis are good, but they also split their focus a bit in other mediums. Alan Moore has, for over 25 years, consistently produced the best work in comics.
In that same period, he's also gotten screwed over many times by publishers going back on their word. DC (owned by Time Warner)in particular has time and time again done things he feels are breaches of their "good word", not to mention outright breaches of contract. I get the sense Alan is a man of his word, and gets particularly peeved when he doesn't get the same respect in return. People of high standards and not a small bit of genius often tend to be a bit short-tempered when they feel disrespected.
Oh, and "COMIC BOOKS" are real books nowadays, you know. Go to a bookstore sometime, they probably have several shelves full of highly respected works of graphic fiction... not to mention some very fun works of complete escapist fluff too.
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
http://www.thesuperficial.com/image.php?path=/arch ives/np1.JPG
I think that Moore has a reason to be angry. Since I first heard about this movie, I went out and got the graphic novel. This was quite strange, seeing as I had never read a comic before that. I was surprised at the amount of intellectual stimulation I was able to get out of it. It also helped that I was into distopian literature; fans of 1984 will love it.
But key parts started to be changed. It was inevitable, considering the length of the novel. For example, the fictional British-fascist movement called Norsefire comes to power in a somewhat complex manner. In the movie, they just decided that they would have the Nazis win WWII. Everybody hates the Nazis right, and nobody wants to go see a movie based on a political comic book.
The moral status of the main character, V, is also ambivalent, which made the novel even more thought-provoking. V wears a disguise, papier mache mask included, that bears the likeness of Guy Fawkes (check wikipedia if you're not familiar; basically, he once tried to blow up parliament). It is never obvious whethere he is a terrorist or freedom fighter. He blows stuff up, and often kills civilians to get his point accross. I suppose the easy way to categorize him would be as an antihero. My only fear is that the movie will take this all away and make him another run of the mill masked crusader.
So in conclusion, just read the graphic novel, in case the movie blows.
P.S.: The teaser poster says "remember, remember the 5th of november." This is NOT necessarily the date it will be coming out. (Warning: those of english decent will hate me for pointing out the obvious). It comes from a popular rhyme recited on Bonfire day (again, wikipedia for those who don't know) that tells the fate of Guy Fawkes:
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot...
Sorry if you knew all this already.
A guy walks into a bar... well, I forgot the joke, but the punchline is that he's an alcoholic.
No, Image is still around. Nothing notable business wise from them in a while. Many of the original creators have stoped doing their own work (Erik Larsen the main exception), but the company is still putting out books regularly.
The irony is that while most of the founders stopped doing work, many have other people working for them under contracts that are not all that much better than the contracts the founders rebelled against.
One of Todd McFarlane's companies recently declared bankruptcy but, like many big companies, the main creditors for that company were other McFarlane subsidiaries...
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
... these days, when I see a movie being made of a creator-owned comic book I like, I think to myself "oh good, a fat wodge of money going to $creator, that'll help him make some more comics, or buy food, or take better quality drugs, or something."
I don't actually go and see any of the wretched things, but I can tolerate their existance at least.
BTW, isn't wodge a lovely word? Wretched, too.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
By my punctuation. I didn't use a single exclamation point.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
If Alan Moore were making a deal out of something that did not concern him, then he would be an arrogant prick. But here is he, defending his honor, and being called a prick by some arrogant spud on the internet, and all we can talk about is Natalie Portman. What is this, Fark?
But enough about Moore, what about Gaiman? Nothing like a chapter from Books of Magic to steal Harry Potter's thunder. Hermione has nothing on Molly, that is for damn sure.
Some of the best comics I have I ever read were written by Moore. In particular, I enjoyed Watchmen and The Killing Joke. Sadly, he and Bill Sienkiewicz never finished Big Numbers (betcha no one remembers that book).
For those who didn't read the article, it should be pointed out that Moore never did want to return to working for DC, but ended up there after DC purchased the company who had him under contract.
The odd spoiler follows.
In an interview I read recently, Moore says something along the lines that he doesn't think there will ever be a market for a film where the hero is an anarchist terrorist. Obviously we don't know whats in the film, but even though its been made I sort of share his skepticism. One wonders if V really does remain a terrorist who goes around blowing up public buildings in the film for no other reason than to make people think and feel freely...seems a little unlikely "in the current climate". My money is on them twisting that element to make it the struggle of the lone hero against the repressive regime, but the subtlety in what V's aims actually are, and the moral ambivalence, will be long gone (if you take out the motivation than V is undiscernable from say Rambo, both blow lots of things up to fight Bad Guys(tm) ). Also, is it really going to begin with the attempted rape of a underage prostitute by the secret police? And can we really trust Elrond to keep the damn mask on all the way through? A flashback (yes, yes, but look how its drawn) or an unmasking would ruin the whole thing. I can't think of many Hollywood stars who'd be prepared to do that as a leading actor (David Prowse will of course always be the exception, but he wasn't as such a Hollywood star, he was the Green Cross Code man!)
As to Hollywood getting England wrong, we are so well used to that, to be honest it barely registers anymore. It was going on long before any of us were born. One sort of grows up realising theres a special mythological England with bizarre Ye Olde customs and behaviour that exists in films and the one you actually live in. But then thats probably true for everyone across the world to some extent. And being the sinister villains rather than the lantern jawed hero is fine with me as well, they always have the best lines anyway. Our accents (e.g., the woman in Frasier...wtf?), our culture and our history are regularly and comprehensively pissed all over in the name of the North American market, but heh, as the Voice of Fate would say:
England Prevails.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
I guess that would be debtor, not creditors? I may be a comic book geek, but I ain't no lawyer!
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Yeah, I imagine there are brilliant advertising jingle writers, brilliant monster truck announcers, and equally brilliant graffiti artists who'd all shun Hollywood's money just the same.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
those bastards create a cheesy ending, revealing V's true identity ala scooby doo, and pretty much miss the point of the comic entirely.
I totally respect his arrogance. I have nothing against deserved arrogance. And anyone who pisses on Hollywood deserves praise. But my god, he's a comic book writer.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Let's not forget that Wachowski sibilings are responsible for making V is for Vendetta movie, and we all know what sort of travesty they are capable of.
Even though Natalie Portman is in it, they had Trinity in Matrix and still managed to ruin that.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
First, I thought it was something about Alan Turing and DC Comics.
Then I thought it was something about Gordon Moore and DC Comics.
Then I thought the submitter had mixed the two up.
Then I realized I didn't even know what the article was about.
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Why are studios paying everyone so little? From the article it looks like the people who did "V for Vendetta" are only getting 8K each? WTF? 8K while everyone gets 6 figures? Shit I don't think the cameraman gets that little.
Thats sad when the people who make the genius work get paid so little. Strong IP laws indeed. Maybe the little IP owners should make do something about it. Sounds like to me some collectiv bargaining (and no I don't mean union here) needs to be done.
sri
Dude, Frank Miller! There are many great graphic novel writers (Warren Ellis? How about Garth Ennis), but only two realy geniuses. Frank Miller and Alan Moore. Go pick up 300, and you'll know what I mean.
...and you're just a slashdot poster, sounding a bit arrogant and prickish yourself.
It's not arrogance when you actually are a brilliant and skilled creator in your field.
Brilliance and arrogance are not mutually exclusive. For example.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
its bonfire night (not day) but bravo for even caring enough to mention it. V's costume is based on Guy Fawkes, who as part of a conspiracy attempted to blow up the houses of parliament by placing a large quantity of gunpowder in a cellar underneath them. This was to be ignited on the 5th of November, killing James the 1st as he officially opened that session of parliament. The aim was to incite a Catholic rebellion.
But Fawkes and the conspirators were captured (they tipped off a friend not to go the House on that day but the letter was intercepted) and tortured and, having confessed, were hung, drawn and quartered. On bonfire night its traditional to get a bonfire together and burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes upon it (and have fireworks and so on as well). For those interested in such things theres a number of conspiracy theories about the nature of conspiracy but I won't go into it here.
I mention this only to point out the sort of post-modernist (urgh, sorry) games Moore is playing by having V dress as Guy Fawkes and, well, blow up buildings. He's sort of dressed as the national villain but he's the hero. Only he's a terrorist, which confuses things even more because when V for Vendetta was written England was quite often being attacked by Catholic terrorists intent on murdering us with bombs and incendiary devices, so he had balls of iron in pulling it off really. The further point here being the Englishness of it is central to the understanding the character and the plot. If you try to make it less foreign to non-English people than you run the risk of missing the point, which may or may not be the case in the forthcoming film. Which is why "eggy breakfast" or whatever it is feels like a bad omen.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
My Google for a definition of arrogance gives me:
:-)
"overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors"
I've never seen that in Stallman, in person or in writing (and I've met him on a couple occasions at various appearances he has made). He's a stubborn cuss, and has great difficulty seeing things from another perspective, and but he doesn't seem prideful or one to look down on others.
When I think of arrogance, I think of Comic Book Guy on "The Simpsons"
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
Hi there.
Have you read any of Moore's comics?
My guess is you haven't. My wife, who absolutely abhors the concept of comic books, was very moved by V for Vendetta.
Might I suggest reading some of his work before forming an opinion?
OK, whatever. You're just ignorant on this issue, I don't feel a need to educate you or try to get you to change your mind. Comics as a medium are not unilaterally pieces of disposable junk; if you want to think that, oh well.
Oh, and some graffiti artists are also quite impressive and very creative. Some of them also have had a great deal of commercial success, including an artist who ended up being recruited by the very companies whose billboards he was "defacing", because they liked his work (wish I could find a cite, it was a good article but I read it way too long ago).
Monster trucks and jingles, maybe those can't be redeemed. Some stuff really is all crap, not just 90% crap.
It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
What can I say but that Alan Moore knows the score?
Better arrogant than ignorant, though.
Hard to think of Image Comics as a success story. It's a husk of it's former self (if it even exists...haven't read comics in a few years), abandoned by the same forces that created the once-vibrant label.
The books were never EVER on time, and were mostly flash after the first year or so. Remember Deathmate? Deathmate Red was like 6 months late!
Image started as a bunch of kids telling the big two (Marvel and DC) to screw off, then each and every one of those founders started their own imprints and started to do the very things they left the big two for (you reading, Todd McFarlane?).
If the Image artists had 'stayed true to their roots' then they would still be relevant AND profitable. Individually, some of them are still going strong, but the whole idea got kicked to the side as soon as they made their first big paycheck. Good thing Alan Moore knows who butters his bread. He's always been a class act.
bonus trivia: what does I.M.A.G.E. stand for?
Thank you Dave Raggett
Would you call Art Spiegelman "just a comic book writer" for Maus? I don't read comics as a rule, but I read Moore's "Watchmen", and it kicked my ass.
-- YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Oh, and "COMIC BOOKS" are real books nowadays, you know. Go to a bookstore sometime, they probably have several shelves full of highly respected works of graphic fiction...
I went, and saw nothing. But then again, perhaps this phenomena is limited to America? America's dumbing down it's books by making them smaller (this is actually a demand by some major American bookchains) and splitting up larger novels into "bite-size." I guess masquerading comic books as real books is just part of the process.
I also like the disco sound, hey!
I taught Watchmen as the grand finale to an honors college course on apocalyptic literature. The response was outstanding.
Little pictures of people in funny costumes do not an immature genre make. Not in Moore's case, not by a long shot.
I'm happy for the old witch, on both counts!
Blessed be, Alan!
This is the internet, I haven't the time to form an opinion PRIOR to ranting.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Well, you certainly got me there.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
>> ...announced his engagement to long term partner Melinda Gebbie...
G.P. is just jealous cuz a guy who writes comic books is getting some and he isn't...
http://request-header.info
Well, I have to admit I've seen some pretty awesome graffiti... er... nevermind. I was thinking about murals. You know, paintings on walls done by REAL artists not defacements made by 14 year old crack addicts.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
THey make a distinction between economic rights and "moral rights". Creators can only sell the economic rights, so they maintain the moral rights which often include the abilty to stop bad uses
And J. Michael Straczynski was writing for Saturday morning cartoons. Then he created Babylon 5.
It's possible to be a good artist in (almost) any genre.
Her accent doesn't seem like an overly improbably Cornish accent to me. I have a friend (here in the US but is from Cornwall) who sounds almost like her.
Silly comic book movies are just as dumb as silly comic books, so who (apart from Alan Moore and his 1337 f4nb0y5) cares?
There's a huge section of graphic novels at the bookstore. And it's very popular. Sadly though, only about 1% of it is traditional stuff. Most of it is anime, like Initial D books and stuff.
It's too bad, an art form Americans excel is getting nosed out by cheap reprints of mostly mediocre crap.
I liken comic books to the old serials that used to be printed in major newspapers. Most of these stories were pretty bad, however there were some that were extremely good. Great Expectations comes to mind.
Similarly, comic books are largely forgettable. They may be entertaining, but that's where most of them stop. However, much like Dickens, there are some who really do something with the medium.
I have found, in general, that book stores largely stock comic book compendia which sell. I've had to order pretty much everything I've wanted. The majority of the clerks are also dismissive of the medium, as well, so they're hardly a help in finding good specimens.
What's worse[1] is that, because the avid readers of comic books are usually such because they like what you and I dismiss as crap, they often avoid the abberations - the literature - in the field. Thus making it harder to find.
As for books getting shorter, this largely has to do with the fact that the majority of publishing imprints tend to be extremely trendy. There's a "sweet spot" that they're constantly trying to hit - much like the ideal pop song length changes about every 5 years. Just like pop songs, I don't find it appealing to sample just the 80%-that's-crap of publications when I'm trying to find good material. The 20% is less affected by trend.
[1] - Here I mean worse for me. Honestly, I'm very happy that people get what they want in stores. Makes other people happy. I just wish I could find a place where people like what I like, so I could find more things that I might like.
> America's dumbing down it's books
You spelled its wrong, you koala-chasing lumbering cancerous descendant of British castoffs.
you know, there is a place called a 'comic shop'
Most of them are run by comic geeks, most of them have at least one guy who you need to ask the hired hands who sell kids yugioh cards what day the guy who knows comics is in... and that guy/woman whomever will be able to to help you find the comic series you like, and chances are they'll have a huge back catalog of out of print stuff, and be able to order you anything that's in reprint, and find where you can get anything that's out of print.
Bookstores sell graphic novels nowadays, but if you want service, you need to find a comic shop run by someone who loves graphic novels.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Not knowing who Melinda Gebbie is, I Googled her and got this. Is this a fair representation of her work?
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Yeah, just because some dumb people couldn't throw fireworks at each other properly! Few injuries, big deal. No one banning bikes, skateboards, or cars now are they?
The USA certainly gets points for having roadside supermarkets FULL of fireworks!
Not Free SF Reader
Hell, I finally read "V for Vendetta" recently, and was thinking of dressing as V this year because I thought people might actually get it! Plus it's a cool ass costume, love that mask.
Plus, sometimes I think we need V, NOW.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Speaking as one who has read comics since the early 70's, Alan Moore hasn't done work worth Jack Shit since Swamp Thing in the early 80's. The Watchmen is the most overrated comic/graphic novel of all time. And what you never hear is that he's pissed off DC too. The Watchmen were all based on the old Charlton Comics characters (Captain Atom, The Peacemaker, etc), which DC had just aquired when Moore was writing The Watchmen. The conclusion of the story would basically make some of those characters unusuable in the future, so Dick Giordano (editor in chief at the time at DC) withdrew permission to use them. Moore simply made thinly veiled copies of the characters (The Question = Rorschatz, for example). While Moore's fans trumpeted the series as the first comics that made the medium "serious" because of storytelling that involved the humanity of the heroes (including fear, doubt, guilt, etc), this is, to put it none too mildly, Bullshit. Moore was breaking no new ground here. Stan Lee basically built the modern Marvel Comics in the 60's on those themes. Peter Parker was nervous, shy, and vulnerable. The Thing hated himself. Tony Stark had a heart condition. For Moore's fans to claim he blazed this trail is disengenuous. Stan Lee, Doug Moench, and a host of others did it first, and mostly did it better.
Better than Chris Claremont's work with the X-Men, especially from 80 to 90? Are you high? All of Alan Moore's work put together isn't as good as the classic Days of Future Past storyline from Claremont and Byrne. Same for Just about any Wolfman/Perez story from the early 80's.
Moore is just a plain pain in the ass. His talent has nothing to do with it, and that's exagerated as well. He used to be a good writer, but he's living off of his reputation. Quit pretending he's Shakespeare on the four color page.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
While Moore was resurrecting the entire genre of horror comic books in the US with Jon Totleben in Swamp Thing, Gaiman was saying to himself, "hey! I want to do that sort of thing!"
Gaiman's certainly a major talent in his own right, but he'll be the first to admit that he's standing on Alan Moore's shoulders. As would Warren Ellis (who is another major talent who anybody who likes Moore or Gaiman should check out).
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
what happend to wildstorm studios? apart form mcfarlane thats the only thing i enjoyed about image.
lush. also the clourinng was done with non traidtionally. i think they led the way ahead of dc and marvek back then.
Oh, it's just too easy...
And can we really trust Elrond to keep the damn mask on all the way through?
More importantly: This is HUGO WEAVING. If he did take the mask off, how would we be able to tell???
Okay, if Alan Moore is dissassociating himself for the movie V For Vendetta then I'm definetly not going to see it.
The studios have to learn that many people in the market audience for a movie based on a comic book are interested specifically because the movie is supposed to be based on the comic book. They can't just "do as they please" and expect to get the same people to come see it.
If the novel's own author is disgusted enough with the way the movie veers off from the actual story that he considers the fact both carry the same name as an odd coincidence, it's no longer the movie I want to see.
Watchmen, we love you all!
Wasn't it a four-part miniseries published in the late '80s or something???
really acted since Leon (at age 12)
:
Absolute rubbish. Check your facts
+ (2005) - Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
+ (2002) - Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones
+ (1999) - Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
+ (1996) - Mars Attacks!
+ (1995) - Heat
and many other films without much of a break since Leon.
or a 1/one ;)
That sounds great 'apocalyptic literature'
Yay me!
and his amazing writing ability. In fact, why didn't you mention his writing first? Did you even know who Alan Moore was before this slashdot story was posted?
I hope the majority of people here don't think of him as "the guy who wrote LXG and From Hell".
I also want to be an arrogant prick !
Anarchy is about taking complete responsibility for yourself. - Alan Moore
How unusual? As I sit here in my stately home (All of us live in stately homes), in the Norfolk mountains, I hear about this on the wireless. None of us would use such a nasty contraption as a computer after all.
It seems that we have two accents in this country, eat nothing but "kidney pie", have no concept of freedom of speech, and are ruled over by a totalitarian monarch.
I suggest you pay attention to italics. He says "Natalie Portman hasn't really acted since Leon", meaning that she hasn't exhibited any acting ability.
Anyone who's read all three books will know you can't compress it into a two hour movie, but that's what Silver was saying in the press I saw.
:(
The first part, which deals with V's vendetta against those that imprisoned him would make a darn good movie, true enough.
But the second part which deals with the deconstruction of Evey and that detective from the Finger is a totally different ball game. It's introverted, thoughtful, bugger all action and V himself is absent for most of it. You *might* get away with that as a seperate Twin Peaks styles of movie but you'll have lost your audience from the first one.
The third book is more workmanlike, it wraps up the story nicely but it relies heavily on the reader having read and understood the events of the second book.
I don't blame Mr Moore for keeping his distance from this project, it's just a shame he lost control of his so that it actually fell into Silver's hands
While Moore's fans trumpeted the series as the first comics that made the medium "serious" because of storytelling that involved the humanity of the heroes (including fear, doubt, guilt, etc), this is, to put it none too mildly, Bullshit.
I'm neither a Moore fan, nor a comics fan, but this seems to miss the point of why so many like the Watchmen and see it as original.
Moore breaks a taboo that pervades much of fiction, not just the comics: the suggestion that those in power might not have thought through what they are doing, that they may not even care enough or be smart enough to think things through.
Play Command HQ online
BIG, HUGE, STONKING SPOILER
Actually, there is a way that Hugo Weaving could play V without taking the mask off. Remember he has access to Auntie? Alan Moore has said in the past that he is another of the book's characters in disguise, but never confirmed which one, so Weaving could quite happily play another character sans mask, and have a big reveal (or not) at the end. Unfortunately, knowing this means that anyone who sees Weaving on-screen without a mask as another character instantly has the ending spoilt.
yes although the stewart lee - alan moore interview is gone, the following alan moore - brian eno interview is there and is well worth listing to, particuarly the the bit about brian eno's luxury item on desert island disks, "a giant man eating spider"
I thought the most "grown up" thing about Watchmen was not the implied possibility that all these carefully worked out plans might be for nothing, but the way that Jon and Joseph are so effectively alien.
These are people who _should_ be alien, but in most comic books about superheros everyone's like Ozymandias. Ordinary people, only faster, smarter, braver, etc.
Jon Osterman is effectively a god. Most comic book writers can't go a chapter further without finding a get-out, a Kryptonite for their Superman, a way to ensure that the god-like character doesn't dominate everything. Moore doesn't bother, Jon Osterman won't interfere in the "larger" plot of the book because human affairs are too small to interest him.
Joseph Kovacs is insane. He's feared not because he's physically strong, (although he's certainly no pushover in a fight) or because he has money or friends in high places, but because his force of will is so powerful. Having determined to reveal the truth, Kovacs fears nothing, not even Jon.
Everyone else in the story is just dressing up, whether they have Batman-like special equipment, or just a flashy costume and few martial arts skills. They all have ordinary lives, "secret" identities, and they can go back to that. It might not be easy, but they can give up the masks & capes and work quietly in an office job.
Rorschach and Dr Manhattan can never do that.
I'd also need a red leather Michael Jackson jacket and pants, and a dorky matching hat. Plus, I only wear halloween costumes from GOOD motion pictures ;D
30 indeed... I was stunned recently to learn that people younger than us have never HEARD of the "V" miniseries!
Freedom: "I won't!"
Arrogance and self-rightiousness seem to go hand-in-hand.
No one can deny that Stallman is self-righteous.
Vote Doctor Doom!
From an interview with the Mail on Sunday (UK):
"Basically, this show wasn't made for an English market. The accent I use has to be understood by an American audience."
The British audience initially suspected she was an American with a speech impediment until we realised the character was supposed to be from Manchester.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
As soon as I heard the name of the studio behind this movie I knew it would suck. Except for the first superman and batman movies this studio has never released a good comic book movie, despite having access to all of DC's comics. They cast jack black as the green lantern and halle berry as catwoman for crying out loud.
So this shouldn't even surprise any of you. My boss is excited about the new batman movie, but I am willing to put money down on a sub 30% tomato-meter rating without even watching the promos.
England was quite often being attacked by Catholic terrorists intent on murdering us with bombs and incendiary devices
I am of course referring to the Irish Republic Army, its not really right to categorise them as "Catholic terrorists". Whilst sectarianism is central to their world view, I didn't mean to imply anything more generally about Catholicism.
Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
Invincible rocks. It singlehandledly restored my faith in comics in general and superhero comics specifically. It's witty, cliched in a good way and innovative. It is sort of meta-superhero comic-comic.
Even to the extent that when Moore was writing "From Hell", about Victorian serial-killer Jack the Ripper, Gaiman was preparing to write a series about Victorian serial-killer Sweeney Todd. A prologue appeared in Taboo (where "From Hell" was being serialized), but Taboo folded shortly after, and I guess Gaiman abandoned the project.
Moore breaks a taboo that pervades much of fiction, not just the comics: the suggestion that those in power might not have thought through what they are doing, that they may not even care enough or be smart enough to think things through.
Yeah, some taboo... Try Dr. Strangelove, Catch-22... heck, try Oedipus Rex.
This kind of criticism of people-in-charge is one of the major themes in Western literature and drama.
Dr. Manhattan has special abilities and perceptions, but he still thinks basically the same way that a human does.
Ozymandias is only able to pull off his plan because (1) he is a lot smarter than Jon, and (2) he -- like Rorschach and the Comedian -- has freed himself from ethical constraints.
DC bought them, the rumor is mainly for their coloring. And DC buying Wildstorm is how Moore ended up working for DC again since Moore had a deal in place with Wildstorm.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Regarding Moore and Hellblazer...
While Moore did create the John Constantine character (in the pages of Swamp Thing), he isn't a guy who's developed him a whole lot.
Crediting Moore solely for this character is a great disservice to Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis, Brian Azzarello, and Mike Carey who have written most of the memorable runs of Hellblazer and shaped the character's continuity and history. In fact, of the 200+ issues of Hellblazer, Moore has written ZERO of them. (see here)
(Of course, the Constantine film is an even greater disservice to the writers, but that's another rant.)
My stupid web site
Better than Chris Claremont's work with the X-Men, especially from 80 to 90?
Oh christ yes. I loved that stuff when I was 12, but on re-read it comes off like a second rate soap opera with enormous breasts and women who bend their knees weird.
Have you read From Hell? It's simply one of the most complex and interesting comics ever made. If Claremont could have written an Xmen arc that tied in actual history, metaphysics and lives of actual people, well, he'd be getting movie after movie made from his work and be complaining about how much they messed it up.
Stan Lee basically built the modern Marvel Comics in the 60's on those themes. Peter Parker was nervous, shy, and vulnerable. The Thing hated himself. Tony Stark had a heart condition.
Yep, he built the themes. He also employed writers who either couldn't write, or wrote for 12 year olds because they thought that was their only audience. Take for example Stark. Yeah, he had a heart condition. But instead of any real stories about what people with heart conditions do, it was "Argh! Dr NastyAwful has pushed a button that causes my armor to, I don't know, make my heart become a hackneyed plot device!" Yeah, I know this is fantasy, but after the fourth or fifth time didn't you start to go "Jesus, just die already!"
Moore's innovation was not the problems that his characters faced, but that he treated them as if they were people, instead of overblown elements in a story arc.
Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
When I was talking about "things I like" I was referring to books as well. Yes, though, a good comic shop can help you find the really good stuff. I was trying to point out the situation in book stores, since the grandparent was talking about that.
As an aside, concerning bookstores: they usually put all the graphic novels in one area, but Maus is always in history. I guess when you are perceived well enough, you aren't grouped with the rest of your kind.
It was the ducks that finally pushed him over the edge. The world must be warned!
(if you don't get it, look at Neil Gaiman's journal for January 20, 2004)
[spoiler alert] I picked up Watchmen after hearing about it for years. Yeah, it's an entertaining read, but the big twist is the bad guy is really one of the good guys? Wasn't that also the big twist in LOEG?
Where it really falls apart is with whats-his-name, the blue guy. Dr. Manhattan. Here Moore follows the same script every other writer uses when dealing with all-powerful characters. First, the more power you have, the less you care. Which makes sense, because if the super-powerful guy who can control the very subatomic particles that make up the bad guys decides to foil the plot before it starts, you have a very short comic book. But it does not make for a very interesting character.
Then, when the super-hero does decide to get involved, he has to have some random weakness or blind spot, again because he is otherwise so powerful as to destroy any hope of suspense or plot development. "There is no future. There is no past. Do you see? Time is simultaneous, an intricately structured jewel that humans insist on viewing one edge at a time, when the whole design is visible in every facet." And later, "I read atoms, Laurie. I see the ancient spectacle that birthed the rubble." (Emphasis from the original.)
That very scene then slides into writing that can be described as average at best. "I return to Earth at some point in my future. There are streets full of corpses. The details are vague." Huh? What happened to all time is simultaneous? You read atoms but now the details are vague? Wot happened? "I'm not sure. There's some sort of static obscuring the future, preventing any clear impression." Hmmm. I see. So what Dr. Manhattan is saying--and please correct me if I'm reading this wrong--is, on page 6, there is no future, and he can see all time simultaneously. But on page 17, there is future, and it is obscured? If that's among the best work in comics, then it is a 2nd rate art form at best. (Note: I'm not saying the graphic novel is a 2nd rate art form; I'm saying surely it has better artists than Alan Moore.)
If I were to look for some comic books to read, I would probably start with Gaiman and Moore. But I think the trite ending to what is an otherwise entertaining Watchmen is one of the main reasons I'm not looking for some comic books to read.
It's not arrogance when you actually are a brilliant and skilled creator in your field. ..in UK/America
Believe me I love Alan Moore but first off he's a writer. In the world of comic books this is sort of like having only one arm. Anyway I think Japan has the best comic book writers/artists.
Comic books/manga in Japan are huge. And the amount of titles is unbelievable. Yes a lot of it is junk but this is going to happen when there are so many titles. However the good ones are really good and there are a bunch of them. Plus there are titles for anyone.
Sometimes I wish America/UK would somehow adopt the business model of the Japanese. You can argue over the aesthetic value of Japanese manga but on the business side they are far beyond us.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Sorry, but doing things like refusing to come speak because a LUG uses the term Linux instead of his prefered term GNU/Linux IS arrogant.
From allwords.com:
having or showing too high an opinion of one's own abilities or importance; impudently over-presumptive.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
That's some pretty good taboo-breaking company.
Play Command HQ online
"Take for example Stark. Yeah, he had a heart condition. But instead of any real stories about what people with heart conditions do, it was "Argh! Dr NastyAwful has pushed a button that causes my armor to, I don't know, make my heart become a hackneyed plot device!" Yeah, I know this is fantasy, but after the fourth or fifth time didn't you start to go "Jesus, just die already!""
I seem to remember a few times (areound when he went from the old bulky can looking armor to the more form fitting one with the round containers on his hips, I think that was in the 70's) that a few times Stark did more then "Oh, this is the biggest one I ever had. You hear that Elizabeth? I'm coming to join you honey.".
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.