Slashdot Mirror


Decriminalizing File Swapping

IAmTheDave writes "Wired reports that judicial activism is taking hold in France, much to the dismay of the recording industry, as judges are beginning to suspend the sentences of convicted file swappers. Further, they believe they are starting a revolution against the draconian laws at the base of the industry's legal agenda, and that sometimes laws need to be changed. Says Judge Dominique Barella of the laws against file swapping in today's society: 'It is similar to the sociological consequences of the Prohibition period in the U.S. (during the 1920s). Certain laws can have unexpected consequences on society.'"

99 of 665 comments (clear)

  1. viva la france by professorhojo · · Score: 4, Funny

    from what i read, the French magistrates union has begun to openly advocate decriminalizing online trading in copyrighted works for personal use.

    so what's personal use? less than 5 movies?

    does that mean if i'm caught with more than 5 movies i'm a dealer?

    can i get an exemption for medical use?

    1. Re:viva la france by bfree · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect the second you make a cent directly or indirectly from your trade it would no longer be regarded as personal use.

      --

      Never underestimate the dark side of the Source

    2. Re:viva la france by bman08 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Let me be the first to point out that they clearly HATE OUR FREEDOM.

    3. Re:viva la france by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What is 'personal use' of an item that HAS no other use? All films, music etc derive 99% of their income from sales to individuals, either through cinema or DVD /CD sales, so doesnt it seem counterproductive to remove what is essentially this mediums only revenue source? How do they suggest that these items generate income when its equally made available for free as a download by people who have no financial attachments to the creation of the work?

    4. Re:viva la france by MCZapf · · Score: 5, Interesting
      In my opinion as a French Magistrate (just kidding), once a movie has been on broadcast television, it's OK to download it for "personal use". I have two reasons for this:
      1. You theoretically could have recorded it (existing fair use).
      2. By the time a movie is on television, movie studios have generally extracted a majority of their profits from it. The purpose of copyright (to encourage the creators by allowing them control/compensation for a limited time) has therefore been fulfilled.
      I'd like to see copyright reduced to ten years, for motion pictures, at least.
    5. Re:viva la france by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was just thinking that maybe French Fries really ARE "Freedom Fries" now.

      But back to the situation at hand... If legal means should fail to resolve this problem, there's always the good ol' US standby tactic of just "bombing them until they see it our way".

      First it was "Weapons of Mass Destruction", next it will be "Computers of Mass Distribution", with a war proposed by the movie/music industry...

      Sounds like the plot for a bad movie... Or the plan for a bad government.

      N.

      --
      "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
    6. Re:viva la france by TooMuchEspressoGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

      They DO hate our freedom! And they clearly do not realize that, for freedom to remain, sacrifices must be made. Sacrifices of our freedom. So, freedom must be sacrificed for freedom to endure. It makes so much sense, doesn't it?

      --
      Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
    7. Re:viva la france by dascritch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      (Proud to be French, country of Freedom and not militarized peace)

      Personnal use in the French Law means in the family circle or friends. Typically, it means a presentation in a private room, without paying fees.

      It also means that i have the right to copy my cds on my personnal computer, on my hard-disc music player, on my professionnal computers and burn a cd for the player in my car. We also pay charges.

      --
      (Sorry my bad French) Je fais parler les Guignols de l'Info. Le pied, quoi.
    8. Re:viva la france by dascritch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      (sorry for incomplete precedent post) I mean we pay charges toà the SCPP (Société Civile des Producteurs de Phonogrammes, union of musical records) for each virgin support. Each one , from disquettes to DVD-RW. So legally, they are already having dommages by law for personnal duplication and tolered copies to friends. And also , we say Vive la France ! except if you want to pousser des vivas

      --
      (Sorry my bad French) Je fais parler les Guignols de l'Info. Le pied, quoi.
    9. Re:viva la france by MojoRilla · · Score: 2

      All films, music etc derive 99% of their income from sales to individuals

      What about film sales to movie networks such as HBO? Airlines? What about sales to TV networks?

      I'm sure these add up to more than 1% of many films income.

    10. Re:viva la france by gr8_phk · · Score: 2
      " What is 'personal use' of an item that HAS no other use?"

      Personal use primarily means something along the lines of not-for-profit. You can't sell it, and you can't play music or movies in your business establishment. Showing movies on the wall in a bar is not personal use. If you think it's OK as long as you don't charge for it, you'd be mistaken - the bar still benefits by attracting customers because of the movie. Increased beer sales would be an indirect profit. A TV station broadcasting a movie to get eyeballs watching paid commercial advertisements is not personal either. See, there are other uses that are not "personal use". Hopefully you just posted without thinking ;-) You've got a brain, please try to use it.

    11. Re:viva la france by Muchacho_Gasolino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. A couple thousand people are paying $45-$300 to go see the Stones this fall in my town, in fact so many that the concert sold out in something like 53 minutes. Many people pay $10 to go see a movie on a huge screen in a place with a nice sound system that can seat as many of their friends as they want, not to mention the chance to participate in the perfumed posse of inexperience with the world invariably gathered outside. Those who have the rights to songs are offered millions of dollars all the time for the right to use their song in a commercial. There are many ways to make a living off intellectual property that don't require monopolization and armies of lawyers to maintain, that already work and still would if the commodities were free to exchange in a less-decorated form.

    12. Re:viva la france by Aeron65432 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting thing however, I had a French Exchange Student, and we were talking about file sharing. He said in France, a person he knew was actually JAILED for 3 months for file sharing, and he knew of people that got 6-12 months.

      He was pretty surprised that I told him almost everyone settled with the Recording Company and only really received a slap on the wrist.

      Consider the differences of the enforcement...

  2. prohibition by Greg+Wright · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here is a blurb from a article on the failure of prohibition by the Assistant Professor of Economics at Auburn University, Mark Thornton. If you read it, just substitue 'file swapping' for 'alcohol' and it seems to ring very true.

    "National prohibition of alcohol (1920-33)--the "noble experiment" -- was undertaken to reduce crime and corruption, solve social problems, reduce the tax burden created by prisons and poorhouses, and improve health and hygiene in America. The results of that experiment clearly indicate that it was a miserable failure on all counts. The evidence affirms sound economic theory, which predicts that prohibition of mutually beneficial exchanges is doomed to failure

    The lessons of Prohibition remain important today. They apply not only to the debate over the war on drugs but also to the mounting efforts to drastically reduce access to alcohol and tobacco and to such issues as censorship and bans on insider trading, abortion, and gambling.

    Although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Alcohol became more dangerous to consume; crime increased and became "organized"; the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant. No measurable gains were made in productivity or reduced absenteeism. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many drinkers to switch to opium, marijuana, patent medicines, cocaine, and other dangerous substances that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Prohibition. Those results are documented from a variety of sources, most of which, ironically, are the work of supporters of Prohibition--most economists and social scientists supported it. Their findings make the case against Prohibition that
    much stronger."

    My favorite quote from prohibition was this on by Reverent Billy Sunday:

    "The reign of tears is over. The slums will soon be a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and corncribs. Men will walk upright now, women will smile and children will laugh. Hell will be forever for rent."

    Seems like the same kind of quote a RIAA is telling artist when they talk about their fight against file swapping.

    Well, I know that I am drawing at least a couple unfounded correlations between the two, but its fun to do. Also, I should point out that I am not for or against either position. Both positions have their own problems.

    --
    --greg Vulcan quiescent... Q: What machine shutdown with this message?
    1. Re:prohibition by s20451 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Okay ...

      National prohibition of file swapping ... was undertaken to reduce crime and corruption, solve social problems, reduce the tax burden created by prisons and poorhouses, and improve health and hygiene in America ...

      Although consumption of file swapping fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Swapped files became more dangerous to consume; ... the court and prison systems were stretched to the breaking point; and corruption of public officials was rampant. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many file swappers to switch to opium, marijuana, patent medicines, cocaine, and other dangerous substances that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Prohibition. ...


      I'm really not seeing how you can see the analogy as anything other than ridiculous, unless you think that a ban on file swapping is leading today's teens to hard drugs.

      Furthermore, Prohibition was a grassroots movement, complete with its own political parties, while the enforcement of copyright is driven by media companies, with very little public support. You really can't compare the two, except superficially, in that they both tried to ban something that was popular.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    2. Re:prohibition by Woogiemonger · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you read it, just substitue 'file swapping' for 'alcohol' and it seems to ring very true.

      "National prohibition of file-swapping was undertaken to improve hygiene in America." Missed the mark on that one. Maybe if they banned MMORPG's, they'd be getting somewhere.
    3. Re:prohibition by kawika · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it's an even simpler premise. People don't like "unfair" laws. If the average person can't figure out who's been hurt, then a crime has not been committed.

      Intellectual property laws don't make common sense in these cases. Even if you can get your head around the idea that something has been "stolen" (even though the original owner still has it), it's hard to buy the idea that the damages are huge. If I download one track of a song off a P2P network, aren't the damages 99 cents if that's the price I'd pay at iTunes?

      When a law tries to tell the people a lie, they lose respect for the law.

    4. Re:prohibition by MrAnnoyanceToYou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't like his translation. Here's mine.

      "National prohibition of file swapping (1999-)--the "noble experiment" -- was undertaken to make earning a living easier for artists, increase the feasibility of living upon one's art, and improve well-being in America by enhancing trade. The results of that experiment clearly indicate that it was a miserable failure on all counts. The evidence affirms sound economic theory, which predicts that prohibition of mutually beneficial exchanges is doomed to failure

      The lessons of Prohibition remain important today. They apply not only to the debate over the war on file swapping but also to the mounting efforts to drastically reduce access to file swapping and to such issues as censorship and bans on insider trading, abortion, and gambling.

      Although consumption of illegal music fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased. Files became more filled with bugs and spyware; crime increased and became "organized"; the court and prison systems found it infeasible to even prosecute; and corruption of public officials was rampant. No measurable gains were made in art quality or artists' standard of living. Prohibition removed a significant source of tax revenue and greatly increased government spending. It led many listeners to switch to Brittney Spears, Ashlee Simpson, NSYNC, The Backstreet Boys and other dangerously stupid artists that they would have been unlikely to encounter in the absence of Copyright law. Those results are documented from a variety of sources, most of which, ironically, are the work of supporters of Copyright Law--most economists and social scientists supported it. Their findings make the case against Copyright Law that much stronger."


      I agree that this argument, as a snippet, is still a little lacking. However, the fundamental problems originally addressed by copyright protection as well as patent protection are no longer handled by said laws.

    5. Re:prohibition by rpdillon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Well written.

      As I read that, a particular phrase caught me:
      "No measurable gains were made in art quality or artists' standard of living."

      It's funny...everyone assumes that if we legalized file sharing that artists would starve. But we have seen no such thing - perhaps even an opposite effect. As the internet has grown, and P2P with it, I think we have a bigger "media culture" than before. People get more excited about upcoming releases (of movies, music, games, whatever), and entire online communities are created that center themselves around these products.

      In fact, I would be hard pressed to cite an example of an artist that STOPPED recording because his or her music was being swapped so much on the internet. There are these theoretical losses the RIAA/MPAA cite well into the billions of dollars - but I don't see "billions of dollars" less in the lifestyle of the pop stars. Metallica is just as rich as always, N Sync just as successful.

      One might assert that the money is coming out of the pockets of aspiring artists, but I would disagree. The RIAA was NEVER the friend of new artists, just as Hollywood is NEVER the friend of the low-budget film maker. I would assert the opposite: with sites like Magnatune and CD Baby, aspiring artists have a better chance than ever to make a buck for their efforts, and get exposure the RIAA and MPAA could never offer.

      Piracy is still piracy, but at the end of the day, you'll find that even in a society where file-swapping is legal, your artists don't starve. This has been held as the highest argument against file sharing: we're stealing from the artists. But truthfully, I simply don't see it. Sure, there's always gonna be those that would prefer to trade online and never pay, but there will also be those that will want to purchase the stuff they found because they liked it so much. Very few people go out and blindly buy music, because it doesn't make any sense. Why would you pay $15 for a CD filled with something you know nothing about? You have to get into it somehow. Back in the old days, it was radio. Then cassette tapes came around, and it was all about mix tapes that were given to your friends. I know I bought a lot of albums because of mix tapes I got from my friends. Now, its home-burned CDs, P2P AND radio.

      As I see it, those "unofficial" distribution channels help artists become known. You have to hear the music somewhere first, and then you buy. P2P, radio and home-made media allow for that to happen. Most artists don't get radio play anyway. All that leaves is word of mouth and P2P for someone to get to know the music, and since few people will consistently pay $15-$20 for an album filled with music they have no clue about, this makes home copied music and P2P pretty important In an age where fewer people are listening to the radio, and more people are carrying music on a portable player, it's just silly to think that killing P2P off will HELP the industry.

      Of course, this begs the question "How do we change laws to reflect this?" And that is a dicussion for another time; I don't have that answer. All I know is that the way it is right now, is wrong.

  3. So... by daveschroeder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When, how, and under what circumstances is it ok for copyright owners to protect their content?

    1. Re:So... by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When, how, and under what circumstances is it ok for copyright owners to protect their content?

      It's fine for them to protect their content but it's also fine for citizens of the United States to practice fair-use. There has to be a balance whether the music industry likes it or not.

      Copyright owners are free to protect their content but don't waste taxpayer monies and private industry money tracking these "offenders" down and then prosecuting them when the music industries' protections don't work the way they intended.

    2. Re:So... by pthor1231 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even still, downloading someone's song to your hard drive and listening too it doesn't really fall under fair use. It is being copied in its entirety, you aren't using it for satirical or education purpose. The only thing going for you is the fact that you aren't making money off of listening to it.

    3. Re:So... by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, content. That's what it is. I so love that word. It makes ideas sound so special, and non-commodity like. *chuckle* That's advertiser thinking. Ideas are just a commodity you use to try to sell stuff.

      Try asking the question from a different angle. What can be done that's not a huge impact to society as a whole that will encourage people to create more stuff? The purpose of copyright was not to try to manifest some fictitious 'ownership' right, it was to try to create a social benefit (people creating stuff) in exchange for giving up an (at the time) unimportant freedom to copy.

    4. Re:So... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It's fine for them to protect their content but it's also fine for citizens of the United States to practice fair-use. There has to be a balance whether the music industry likes it or not.

      Very true. There has to be a balance. Currently, the balance is in favor of file swappers, via ever more inventive technology. The music industry is trying (and failing) to restrict that through various DRM schemes and lawsuits.

      Overly restrictive DRM goes against fair use. And so does wholesale file swapping with everyone online. A sustainable balance means both sides are going to have to give a little.

    5. Re:So... by TooMuchEspressoGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Currently, the balance is in favor of file swappers..."

      Yep, with draconian laws like the DMCA in place, people being sued through quasi-legal methods by the **AA, and DRM that is increasinly becoming more restrictive (and in many cases denying the consumer the right of fair use,) those evil file-swapping pirates obviously have the upper hand on those innocent lobbying collectives.

      Oh, wait, we ARE talking about Bizarro World, aren't we?

      --
      Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
    6. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another good question is how are they supposed to make any coin from it? Advertisements? I would be surprised if there are any /.'ers here don't have blocks for that. Donations? Not going to happen. Support? Thats how Linux is porfitable, yes? Well, working a CD is pretty easy -- not many people will call tech support for that. Touring? Ever set one up? I have, for my cousin. Even with the merchandise, we barely broke even. Endoresments? Yeah, we tried that too -- Airwalk never returned our calls. Haha.

      Doing a live show can pay as little as $150! Three hours there, three hours back. An hour to set up. $150 is nothing for the time invested. But, you can get a free hotel room out of it. Its the exposure that pays off, and the hope that you might make it big someday. Now, they want to take that away, as well.

      I'd like to know how many /.'ers are actual creators of original media works. Not icon sets or wallpapers, but movies, videos, music and books. Stuff that takes a chunk of change to make. Having directed a small PV for my cousin, as well as doing some work on several of his tracks, I am not 100% sure where I stand on this issue.

      I don't like th RIAA any more than you do. But, asking us to give everything away for free is bullshit! I've met people who have shunned the recording industry, namely Geffen records, for their bigotry. It took balls to turn that down. But, given the nature of the community as a whole, I am wondering if it was in his best interests to do so? He still has a day job. Makes a small paycheck. Has a kid to support. But, oh, he was pretty big on MP3.com, which is braggable.

      Even with all of that, he still likes what he does. And, he has commented on how its always "the broke ass people who give their shit away".

      In a perfect world, Linux would be No. 1, and F/OSS would be the default. And, music and movies would be free to make / free to own. However, we don't live in that world. It costs money, takes time, and sadly, is not very profitabble when you play nice.

    7. Re:So... by lucas_picador · · Score: 5, Insightful
      To paraphrase Eben Moglen: when it costs the same to give everyone on Earth a copy of a given piece of information as it does to make a single copy, it is immoral to withhold that information from anyone.

      Information is the lifeblood of democracy. Art is the lifeblood of culture. They are as essential to functional human society as food is to bodily survival; just as we would find it immoral to withhold food from anyone if food were freely replicable and distributable (the farmers' business plans notwithstanding), we should find it equally immoral to withhold information from anyone now that our technological environment makes information freely replicable and distributable.

      I'm surprised by how infrequently I see this argument articulated, even among free-culture types.

    8. Re:So... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yep, with draconian laws like the DMCA in place, people being sued through quasi-legal methods by the **AA, and DRM that is increasinly becoming more restrictive (and in many cases denying the consumer the right of fair use,)

      Is any of that stuff working? Have any of their idiotic DRM schemes not been circumvented? Has file swapping ceased and I didn't notice?

  4. Not a surprise. by Nytewynd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Clearly, French judges want the ability to download the latest Eminem Album. And probably a copy of Return of the Sith to go with it.

    --
    /. ++
    1. Re:Not a surprise. by StevenHenderson · · Score: 4, Funny
      And probably a copy of Return of the Sith to go with it

      Yeah, the French do have shitty taste...

  5. Obligatory Homer Simpson quote by shoppa · · Score: 2, Funny

    Prohibition.... they tried that in the movies and it didn't work!

  6. Finally, someone that understands! by garcia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Instead, criminal proceedings should be geared more toward prosecuting large-scale counterfeiting rings instead of going after "a young person who fills up his or her iPod."

    See, but the music industry doesn't want to do any real investigative work. They want to make examples out of people that are just like everyone else. Everyday people who are swapping music for their portable media players are not going to feel scared of sympathetic towards large-scale operations. They are going to be scared of someone "just like them" that was prosecuted for doing exactly what they are.

    "People still look at this as 'harmless, file sharing,' but the fact is that the effects are the same, or even actually worse, than a massive-scale organized crime piracy operation," Rechard said. "If you look at the number of files that are distributed and the number of music that is being offered without payment to the authors and injury inflicted to the copyright holders, at some point people need to start understanding what we are up against here."

    That's because it is harmless and we have proven time and time again that your trumped up "loss" numbers are nothing more than spin and bullshit. At no point will be stop understanding that the music industry conglomorates are nothing but money grubbing, lying, pieces of shit that do nothing but steal from both sides of the equation for their own benefit.

  7. Prohibition period by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'It is similar to the sociological consequences of the Prohibition period in the U.S. (during the 1920s).

    The prohibition period in the US continues to this day. Marijuana, LSD, opiates, and a host of other substances less harmful than alcohol remain prohibited. It's just that the propaganda is better this time around.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Prohibition period by Nytewynd · · Score: 2, Funny

      The prohibition period in the US continues to this day. Marijuana, LSD, opiates, and a host of other substances less harmful than alcohol remain prohibited. It's just that the propaganda is better this time around.

      I've seen the commercials. If I smoke pot, I'll become a baby sitter and burn down the house with the baby inside. There is also a good chance I'll play with the gun on my dad's desk, and blow away my friend. Finally, I would obviously run over a little girl on a bike when pulling out of a drive-thru.

      That's why pot is prohibited. Those commercials point out the dangers accurately.

      --
      /. ++
    2. Re:Prohibition period by fluxrad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The prohibition period in the US continues to this day. Marijuana, LSD, opiates, and a host of other substances less harmful than alcohol remain prohibited. It's just that the propaganda is better this time around.

      As an ex user of opiates I can tell you one thing...

      They should remain illegal (or, at least, controlled as they are now).

      Marijuana, LSD, and mushrooms are another matter.

      --
      "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
    3. Re:Prohibition period by gothzilla · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's easy to see. Compare the death rates.
      Alcohol is the ONLY drug where withdrawls can kill you. Lots of things can be OD'd on, but alcohol is the only one where you can die if you don't get it.

    4. Re:Prohibition period by i41Overlord · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's easy to see. Compare the death rates.
      Alcohol is the ONLY drug where withdrawls can kill you. Lots of things can be OD'd on, but alcohol is the only one where you can die if you don't get it.


      What about food? People get addicted to that, but when they stop eating they always seem to die.

      (this was a joke)

    5. Re:Prohibition period by Hatta · · Score: 2, Informative

      As far as I can tell however though, is that they basically make the argument on why alcohol should be illegal

      Well we have the best argument against making alcohol illegal. We tried it and it didn't work. The costs to society of alcohol prohibition were more than that of alcohol regulation. It's the same for marijuana, psychedelics, and opiates.

      I'm not so sure about cocaine and methamphetamine. But the libertarian (small l) in me says it's none of the gov'ts business what I take, and even if it were, treatment would be far better than criminal penalties.

      I mean we could talk about how criminalization of heroin creates a black market where street thugs and terrorists profit instead of businesses and the govt (through taxes). And how this leads to a decrease in quality causing more overdoses, and how it stigmatizes addicts causing more harm to them than the actual drug does. And how we're wasting millions of dollars incarcerating nonviolent addicts who would be better served by treatment. We wouldn't have to talk about alcohol at all to argue against prohibition from a pure harm reduction standpoint. But that's not how the argument was framed, and alcohol prohibition is a very useful example.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:Prohibition period by 01000011011101000111 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an aside to the nicotine argument, there is one drug most people forget: Caffeine. LD:50 - 1.5-2g (I've nearly done this before now - it's not fun...) so about 10 cups of coffee, or 30 pro plus (7.5 no-doze for the americans, iirc) tablets... Addiction rates for caffeine are also completely off the chart - nicotine is the only stuff that comes anywhere near close. And (as someone who's now almost completely given up - I won't even drink cola bc of the caffeine content) I can tell you that the withdrawl symptoms are a bitch...

      --
      Programming is an Art. I am an Artist. Does that mean I get to wear a daft hat?
    7. Re:Prohibition period by stanleypane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've eaten LSD... Hundreds of times. At no point in time was I ever compelled to cut my face off with a razor or anything remotely close to that scenario. I've known well over 300 hundred people that have eaten the drug and never done anything similar. Moreover, I've known people that have sold the stuff and never once have they ever heard of such things like that.

      I've seen people arrested for digging through dumpsters while seriously fucked up on LSD and repeating phrases like, "I'm the captain. The captains gotta have his ship."

      I've seen people swearing they would never eat LSD again because it turned them green.

      I've seen people ride bicycles through 7-11, rip open packs of Starburst and throw them piece by piece all over the store. Again, the police were involved in that one.

      I've watched people snort ENTIRE bottles of ketamine not realizing exactly how large the line was (due to the LSD) until afterwards and still function an hour later with no ill effects.

      I've known quite a few kids that never saw the age of 18 because of alcohol related accidents. Not saying LSD would help when you're driving, but most folks are afraid to drive on LSD. Most people I know would absolutely have a fscking cow if you try and take their keys when they're drunk. Not to mention the violence that may occur when you try taking the keys.

      I've watched quite a few people let alcohol go to their heads only for it to result in physical violence. Both to themselves and others. I've a dead friend who got drunk and slit his wrists. I wouldn't blame it on the alcohol though. I would say he used the alcohol as an aid, not as a means. I would say that he was totally fscked in the head to begin with. But I wouldn't say it was because of alcohol.

      Point being, I've seen alot of people do both, but I've never seen a funeral procession for a 16 year-old kid hold traffic up outside of my house for hours on end because of LSD.

  8. Fair use by jfengel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a sense that matches up with the "fair use" notion in the US. Swapping a few songs with your friends hardly seems criminal, or at least trivial.

    Pulling tens of thousands of files from other file-trading networks and then making them available for free to people anywhere in the world, that hardly sounds like "fair use". It's too bad the the technologies that enable the fair use case also enable the more clearly criminal case.

    1. Re:Fair use by iminplaya · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's too bad the the technologies that enable the fair use case also enable the more clearly criminal case.

      No it's not. It's only too bad that people use said technology for criminal purposes. Don't blame the tech. It's supposed to be how we use it. And in the case of IP law, like prohibition, the criminal is not so easily defined.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Fair use by steve_bryan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What we have here is a two way slippery slope. Mathematically it is hard to envision but the idea is that we get an unstable condition in both directions. The draconian remedies favored by the recording industry were originally designed to handle cases of commercial copyright infringement. They make more sense in that setting. Allowing its unfettered use in non-commercial cases is a solution that might be worse than the problem.

      On the other hand if the court adopts a hands off stance toward personal, non-commercial copyright infringement, the relentless advances of technology could make the production of digital entertainment significantly less profitable. One of the ideas of copyright law is to encourage the activities of production even as it inhibits more widescale consumption.

      The judgment one has to make is which alternative is more potentially damaging to society. I think that even in a society where non-commercial file swapping is completely unchecked, the majority will still choose to purchase what they want. But I could certainly be wrong about that. I just think it is lesser risk than allowing powerful entrenched interests an effective veto power over the development of new technology.

      To understand how this could be more significant than how people choose to access silly popular entertainment consider the implications for technical competition between societies. Since my undergrad days at Caltech I became aware that the very expensive texts that we used could be purchased for a fraction of the price we paid in many places in Asia including India and China. If we continue to choose the draconian path while other countries assume a more permissive stance, that would (has) set up an experiment between the U.S. and, for instance, China. I'm uncomfortable with the possible result of that sort of experiment.

    3. Re:Fair use by steve_bryan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The advances I had in mind are specifically how unbelievably inexpensive hard drive storage capacity has become. If the bits are fungible, then today's price is down to 50 cents per gigabyte with no concerns about the possible complexity of burning and storing DVD-R media. You just add it to your drive. That puts audio CD's in the price range of a quarter versus $15 to $20 for the commercial product. Similarly for DVD's, even a 10 gigabyte movie requires no more than $5 worth of space.

      There are at least two more orders of magnitude improvements that are just a matter of applying known technology and customary competition. So that's 5 cents for a movie and a fraction of a penny for an audio CD. It is just plain brutal for the producer. Proponents of market economies like to extoll the virtues of creative destruction. Well, here it is in spades.

    4. Re:Fair use by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If distribution costs through digital entertainment are nill, then the artist can actually use the free distribution to promote live performances.

      How does this work for non-music content? For example, I enjoy listening to audiobooks. If this content is distributed for free how does the author make any money? I'm not going to go to a "concert" to listen to an audiobook. And what about the case of people like my sixtysomething parents? They buy CDs and listen to them, but they're not the type to go to a concert. If they got all their music for free how would the artist make a living?

      I'm not saying the current rules make sense, but there are issues that need to be addressed.

    5. Re:Fair use by steve_bryan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree with your assessment of the relative virtues of a movie theater. I think it is almost comical that there are news stories about the horrors facing George Lucas because of the pirating of his movie. Meanwhile he is earning the biggest return in history during the opening of the film. Do they show any trace of irony? Not that I have noticed. I think it is entirely possible that even if there were unlimited file sharing there might not be any significant change in how the movie business operates.

    6. Re:Fair use by HermanAB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "could make the production of digital entertainment significantly less profitable"
      Well, I fail to understand why musicians and film actors must all necessarily become multi-billionaires. The entertainment industry currently is a rip-off industry. At some point the pendulum is bound to swing back.

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
  9. The Perspective by LegendOfLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

    'It is similar to the sociological consequences of the Prohibition period in the U.S. (during the 1920s).'

    This has some interesting implications; however, I don't think it'll be interpreted the same here in the states. See, Prohibition was viewed as the government taking away a liberty right, or the right to be left alone. Here is the Man telling me I can't buy alcohol.

    Downloading MP3's is viewed as taking the "property" of somebody else. In other words, if I want to buy and drink alcohol, then who is the government to stop me? But if I want to take somebody's property (as defined by IP laws), then obviously, this changes things.

    I do think that "jail time" people for downloading some music is ridiculous. Downloading music will never stop, this cycle will always continue. It's like the 55MPH speed limit. Nobody follows is, and yet the police still try to enforce it. Some of us will pay fines, and others will get away scott free.

    1. Re:The Perspective by mrchaotica · · Score: 3
      You're right -- perspective is the problem. And it's the propaganda of the content industry that's changed that perspective for most Americans. For example:
      Downloading MP3's is viewed as taking the "property" of somebody else.
      This isn't true!* Contrary to popular opinion, music is not the property of the artist that made it. It's actually the collective property of all of us -- it's part of our culture. Copyright law reflects this in its "limited times" provision. Copyright expires because that's when the art goes back into the hands of its rightful owners. Until then, we're just letting the artist borrow it.

      No, the analogy to Prohibition is entirely accurate (in fact, I've used the same analogy myself). The current problems with copyright law should be viewed as the government taking away our liberty right to our culture.

      *okay, technically the "viewed as" part is true. But you know what I meant.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:The Perspective by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2

      Downloading music will never stop, this cycle will always continue. It's like the 55MPH speed limit. Nobody follows is, and yet the police still try to enforce it. Some of us will pay fines, and others will get away scott free.

      The speed limit is not about "right and wrong" it is about making money for police departments. It is a way to gain revenue and pretty much nothing else. If you are speeding to the point where you are actually a danger you are charged with reckless endangerment or reckless driving.

      Making non-commercial copying illegal (which happened in the 70's) and filing lawsuits against people for sharing music files is rapidly becoming the same sort of fundraising, except for a commercial interest. Isn't it interesting how power in the U.S. has shifted from the government to large corporations?

    3. Re:The Perspective by pilgrim23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok I am Joe Average and I STILL don't get it.

      Would someone please explain it to me?
      Some years back I went down to the "You-Buy-It Electronics Mart" and bought a new cassette recorder/ player with built in equalizer and FM/AM radio. I tuned in my favorite Country Radio and found out they had Dolly Parton on every half hour. I sure liked that song, so, I slipped a new tape in and ShaZAM! I had a copy of Dolly I could now play in my Pickup Truck!

      Some time after that, I went back to the You-Buy-It, and this time they sold me this fancy VHS recorder. Since I work swing shift down at the factory, this was great for recording all my Hee-Haw episodes so I could watch'em when I got off work. I also like to record the games in case the fellows wanna come over for a Coors and see'em again. -My OWN "instant reply" by gum!

      Well a year ago, I was back down at the You-Buy-It and the fellers sold me this Corn-puter thing that gets me on that Inter-Net. From there, thanks to this cable modem thing (I wonder what channel it is on?) I found this "Page" they call it, where there is all sorts of Country MP3s I can "download" (See? I am pickin up the lingo!), and record (no wait, they say "Burn"). Now I can play Dolly in my new pickup's fancy CD player.

      Now I hear about this "stealing music" thing they keep acusing me of. I don't get it. The You-Buy-It sure didn't strike me as some criminal organization sellin me illegal equipment. And those tapes and disks all had the name brands of big companies on 'em, Companies I see on commercials all the time. Why was it "OK" for me to record Dolly back when, and it ain't now? And, if it IS illegal, then why do they sell me all this fancy stuff when there should be a LAW agin' it? Now I ain't no lawyer, and I ain't no computer geek, Can you please explain the difference in simple words a plain old American can understand?

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
  10. Amnesty by stuffduff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I don't mind cutting out the middleman, I think this stinks for the artist. Let the artists set up their own websites and accept a payment equivalent to their royalty. Let's kick out the guys that say who will and will not release music. There's an explosion of new music out there, some of which we may not appreciate, that is just waiting for the opportunity to get listened to. Let's break up the whole cartel, the RIAA, the radio stations and anything else that stands in the way of the freedom of musical expression, which ought to be covered in the 1st amendment.

    --
    "Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
  11. Why should laws be changed? by antispam_ben · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The laws concerning copyright of written text weren't changed when the Xerox ocopy machine became available. Should copyright laws on music recordings be changed just because it's so easy to store, copy and "share" such recordings? I don't see any argument other than "I want my free [commercial] music" and that's not a good enough reason.

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
    1. Re:Why should laws be changed? by DingerX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why should laws be changed?
      Because property is a social construct. There is no inherent characteristic in anything I own that makes it mine; what makes it mine is that we as a society commonly agree it is mine, and the laws generally follow that common agreement.

      Intellectual Property is particularly nebulous since we're defining something without physical being (a series of ideas) as being property -- that is, we're assigning a notional value to a notion.

      That's all well and good, but when what do we do when a major sector of the society doesn't agree with the attribution of such a notional value to a specific form of that notion?
      For example, a law could state that all sports cars belong to me. That'd be good and legal, but the sports car owners would think differently. Why should the law be changed?

      At heart, the problem is that this particular construction of property collides with millennia of human practice. Heck, even the old copyright law only makes sense for a few centuries of human existence. Add in that, in the case of music, we've got an industry built around oligopolic vertical domination of the industry -- from artists to mass dissemination to retail, and and new technology has basically destroyed the dominant position of the old guard. And no elite is more vehement than one that's being supplanted.
      So why should they have the privileged voice in law?

    2. Re:Why should laws be changed? by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, it depends.

      Before the internet, large scale copyright infringment was impractical unless the person copying was making a profit. Hence there are a lot of laws on the books that are intended to deal with commercial infringement rather than file sharing. However, the record industry brings suits under these laws.

      Since these laws were clearly not intended to cover not-for-profit file sharing, should the judge interpret them by the letter of the law, or consider the intent of the law?

  12. question by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In a true capitalist society would patents & copyrights even exist ? I don't believe so, they're incompatible with that philosophy. The whole bitch & moan routine by mpaa/riaa/copyright holders/etc sounds like sourgrapes to me.

    1. Re:question by westlake · · Score: 2, Informative
      In a true capitalist society would patents & copyrights even exist ? I don't believe so, they're incompatible with that philosophy.

      Capitalism is based on private investment, trade in goods and services which are not provided by the state, church, or community.
      You do not get investment where private property rights are not protected.

    2. Re:question by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dufus, he asked about copy rights. Not property rights. At the bottom of some copyrighted material do you see a (P)? No, it's (C) because it's C-O-P-Y right.

      So, even though you don't get it, you answered the question perfectly. Capitalism only needs property rights, and not imaginary, propagandized quasi-property rights.

  13. Foreign Law by 1967mustangman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So now that Jusitces Kennedy and Stevens are advocating the use of international law and foreign judges opinons in Supreme Court descisions do you think they are going to take these rulings into consideration? It shall be interesting to see.

    --
    Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
  14. Re:Frances is just damn sore ! by RikF · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >So, France doesn't produce much music the world want s to listen to, or many movies they want to watch.

    Really? Their music might not be to everyones taste but their movies can be absolutely superb.

    RikF

    --
    In Soviet Russia you own your cat
  15. go france! by rayde · · Score: 5, Insightful
    is it time for me to throw out my bag of freedom fries yet? ;-)

    seriously though, i think it's refreshing to hear people in authority looking at the situation from this perspective instead of blindly following.

    change always has to start somewhere, at some level.

  16. Re:Frances is just damn sore ! by Olix · · Score: 2, Funny

    How could you?!? You missed out snails in your sterotype!

    And france does produce some things I like to watch... *cough*

  17. the point of my sig for the last 2 years by Omnifarious · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's even more insane to criminalize file swapping than it is to criminalize drug use. Catching file swappers basically requires the violation of either the 4th ammendment or the first.

    At one point in time the freedom to copy was so unimportant to the average person that the trading away that freedom in the hopes of some greater social benefit made sense. Now things have changed, and it's time to re-evaluate how the social benefit might be achieved without trading away an important and easily exercised freedom.

  18. Judge with a clue! by EvilStein · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Looks like they're basically saying "Sorry, EU-MPAA, but we really do have more important issues to tend to than some high school kid that's downloading little bits of "1" and "0" that he can put on his iPod. Besides, he's paid the media tax that you turkeys claimed was necessary to cover the costs of piracy. Now go away."

  19. I Disagree to Agree by neophyte13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree that sometimes the laws are a bit extreme in the US when if come to Copyrights. For instance the 3 years in jail felony for downloading a pre-release movie is a bit extreme. I think a fine would be more appropriate.

    but on the other hand, some of these kids that are being fined only had like 433 songs. What happened to "The RIAA will only sue 'major' contributors to copyright infringement"? I thought they defined that as at least 900+ songs.

    It isn't balanced in either direction. The punishment often doesn't fit the crime which I believe is some where in US criminal law.

  20. Re:Judicial Activism by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No kidding. These judges aren't trying to change copyright law, they're trying to put it back to what it was originally designed to be!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  21. France has a different legal system by redelm · · Score: 5, Interesting
    France uses "code civile" which is very different from English Common law. Judges have a different role, and in particular are much less bound by precedent than under common law. Judicial activism is a built-in feature. Not a bug.

    1. Re:France has a different legal system by dcclark · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However, there is some English precedent for this as well. After the "middle ages," rulers made a ridiculous number of crimes into hanging offenses, often minor matters as well as major ones. Judges and juries eventually began to deal with this by simply refusing to convict people, even obviously guilty ones, because the punishment would have to be too harsh. This eventually helped fuel major changes in the judicial system.

      That said, my history is a bit rusty and I'm sure I got a few details wrong. But this sort of activity has certainly existed before.

  22. Some problems with this article... by 0kComputer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1. They didn't mention what the current punishment for "swapping files" was.

    2. They never gave the reader any clue as to how many "convicted file swappers" there were.

    How can I judge how big this event is if they don't give me any kind of ruler to measure it against. I know the RIAA in the US has sued some swappers for money, but it was all civil. Wired seems to act like this is a Bastille Day for file swappers, but I'm not even sure anyone was even in prison.

    --
    Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
    10.
  23. good by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well they're gonna have to accept that policing it will never get any more effective than simply scaring people into submission. The PC is just not a locked system so there's always going to be ways to break any copy-protection you throw at it and there will always be ways to communicate with people without being caught. I think mobile phones will take over as the music platform of choice - they're already merging with pda's and mp3 players (which are a passing fad) and they are easier to lock down than PC's (although obviously not 100%). People are more likely to impulse buy on a mobile because they have it on their person 24/7, you might be in a shop or at a party and you like the music so you'll take out your phone and buy it on the spot in 20 seconds, music recognition software and debit from your mobile account will mean this takes only a few button presses, instead of waiting until you're at home or in a music shop by which time you will have forgotten. The mobile platform will be attractive to the music industry because they will have more of a chance of locking it down, making sure only their software is used, but what makes it a good idea is that while people can hack it if they want, its far more convenient for most people just to pay, I'm pretty sure more people in the world now have mobile phones than PC's with net access.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  24. File Swapping is not a crime! by gillbates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as judges release convicted fileswappers with suspended sentences associated with otherwise draconian penalties stipulated by copyright law. [emphasis added]

    File swapping is not a crime! Copyright infringement is. We wouldn't call someone who downloaded child pornography a "convicted web-surfer"

    I suppose I'm rehashing the tired hacker/cracker terminology argument, but terminology does matter. Public opinion shapes public policy, and ultimately creates laws. Even though their are legitimate uses for file sharing programs, we may find them made illegal simply because they were publicly associated with copyright infringement. Nevermind the fact that web browsers facilitate more copyright infringement than filesharing programs - it's the public perception that matters.

    I'm a file swapper too. But that doesn't mean I'm guilty of copyright infringement.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  25. lattest The Pirate Bay lagal threat by Psionicist · · Score: 5, Funny
  26. Re:Judicial Activism by Punko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The French use a different legal system that the English Common Law used in North America. It is based less on precedence (previous legal decisions). The ability of the impartial judiciary to "go with the times" is an important feature in their legal system. This system changes faster to suit the times than a precedence-based one. Of course, this is a two-edged sword, especially if the public mood has taken a dramatic draconian turn.

    However, its much better than the US legal sytem which still hasn't got its head out of the Victorian era's butt.

    --
    If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
  27. this is GREAT for all, stop crying by downsize · · Score: 2

    ever hear of 'no such thing as bad advertising'? artists of all levels, from just starting out, to top of the charts benefit from internet sharing.

    everyone loves to argue that it hurts the music industry or hurts up and coming artists, but the only thing it can really do, is prevent shitty artists from making money - and how is that a bad thing? if you make crap, don't cry to the world that the problem was file sharers, the problem was your crappy music.

    now I know there are 100 different ways (now, due to the pressue internet sharing put on the industry - you used to get stuck with a crappy cd) to test out music before you buy it, but is there a good way to listent to a full album for a while to decide if you really want to purchase it, or go to one of their concerts or support the artist in other ways?

    i'm not normally one to cheer on France, but looks like they've done something right - I wonder if you were able to internet share paintings, sculptures and other artist work (beyond music, you get me) if France courts would be handing out the same ruling.

    however, after IDRTFA (i did read the f'n article) this judge's statement is way out of place: "Judge Dominique Barella told Wired News. "It's like condemning people for driving too fast after selling them cars that go 250 kmh."" uh, ok so don't condemn me for using a gun that you sold me which I used to shoot you, or drinking too much of their Wine and drive around knocking out pedestrians - maybe i should retract my statement about France being right :-}

    don't hate me for this, they have file sharing, so it fits the comment

    --
    do you have shinyfeet?
  28. Re:Judges New Legislative Body? by UlfGabe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i believe that the article is talking about the judges understanding what the people require.

    It is also my understanding that higher court judges can overturn laws (notably marijuana laws in canada, various laws in the states) and dictate to the government that they need to shape up the laws to work with society.

    The first stage is where the people complain,

    then the judges will help,

    then you have a problem and it must be legislated,

    because criminals cannot be judged free 100% of the time for a crime...

    for example (from the canadian marijuana laws overturnment) the city i am from orignially had a judge who THREW out every possesion arrest trial because the governemtn had not properly asserted the laws in a manner consistent with society!

    --
    Check journal for info on Anti-TextBook, an idea by me.
  29. Re:Why can't people understand... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People understand it just fine. They just ignore it for their own convienience.

  30. Lowers respect for property and law by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm really not seeing how you can see the analogy as anything other than ridiculous, unless you think that a ban on file swapping is leading today's teens to hard drugs.

    In a way it does. The more you are told that something that seems obviously "OK" is illegal, the more you start to think that perhaps OTHER laws are silly as well.

    The more laws you stack up that the majortiy of the populace simply do not follow (speeding, P2P, etc) the more people break other laws as well. "In for a penny, in for a pound" as the saying goes.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Lowers respect for property and law by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It really made me laugh that this comes from France, remembering a couple of years back when France was bashed by an almost unison /. and now all of a sudden they are the heroes.
      Yeah, isn't it great that Slashdotters judge people by their actions instead of forming a prejudiced opinion and clinging to it forever?
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Lowers respect for property and law by Harinezumi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nothing breeds greater contempt for the rule of law than punishment without crime and crime without punishment.

  31. Someone must stand up and defend France! by Simonetta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, France doesn't produce much music the world wants to listen to, or many movies they want to watch.

    The best way to understand the relationship between Anglo and French cultures is to think of them as parallel universes. There is a lot of great stuff that happens in both that doesn't 'cross the bridge' between them.

    French movies tend to be 'small' and not huge CGI blockbusters, but they tend to be the best of all the 'small' movies of the world. During the movie theater era before the VCR revolution of the mid-1980s, French films were widely shown in every major US cities. French directors like Truffaut and Rohmer were known throughout the world.

    French music is not only the pop songs of the radio, but also most of Europe outside of the UK. Paris is also the ground zero for the world music movement. Much of the music of Africa is recorded there and many of the best African musicians are based there. Paris is also the center of the European orchestral music movement, both modern and classical. Classical music is rare and modern orchestral music unknown on US radio.

    Back to the topic. I believe that the final effect of all the DRM and legal action against the consumers of corporate entertainment product will be the marked decrease in the demand for this product.

    This might be beginning to happen with Hollywood movies. The box office revenue growth seen in the past eight years seems to have stopped. This has nothing to do with movie file sharing, because that activity is very small compared to the size of the industry itself. It's more due to high prices at the theaters and unexciting movies.

    What we will see, hopefully, is a lot of smaller movies on DVD that rent for 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of the latest blockbuster. It would seem to management that 20 $1 rentals is a lot worse than 4 $5 rentals, but that isn't so because the consumption of entertainment product creates its own demand for this product. It's a different type of product from, say, food. The more entertainment that you consume, the more that you want and the more money that you will pay for it.

  32. Re:Judges New Legislative Body? by Jurph · · Score: 2, Informative

    The purpose of judges in English Law is to rule on the constitutionality of laws and to track and reconcile the hundreds of thousands of precedents. In France's code civile the judges can and do make up new law when it appears to them that a law is inadequate or overbearing.

  33. Expectable by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2

    In Europe we have legalized drugs, legalized prostitution, legalized gay marriages, and other things that in the US are seen as "taboo".

    Is it really a mystery that now they're legalizing file swapping?

  34. I'm changing my mind on this by DanielMarkham · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a writer, programmer, and creative person, I've always been for strict copyright enforcement.

    But I'm changing my mind. Why?

    Art is about the medium, message, and reception. It used to be the medium was radio or a record, the message is the content, and the reception was just somebody absorbing the content.

    That worldview is no longer valid. Therefore, laws and mores built upon it need to be re-examined.

    The medium can be anything now -- disc, WiFi, BlueTooth, etc. The reception -- and here's the key point -- is not the human ear anymore. It's the hard drive. When I TiVo an old Star Trek episode, my computer's hard drive is the first to get it, not me. I use the computer as a extension to my brain and memory process. It's nothing at all like a book, or record.

    This sucks for content producers, because the rules are going to change. Maybe not today, maybe not even this decade, but the world is changing. The people who made buggy whips were probably outraged that the horseless carriage came along.

    I think the situation sucks. The reason it sucks is that people who have been playing by the rules are getting screwed by file-sharing. But there are no culprits here, save for the evolution of the human existance. Demonizing people and paying a lot of lawyers is just smoking so much rope. How many times was the new Star Wars movie downloaded in the last week? 100 thousand? More?

    Use Occam's Razor -- has the world suddenly grew infected with souless criminals intent on stealing from the mouths of the creative industry? Or has time simply moved on?

    1. Re:I'm changing my mind on this by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You're half right.
      Art is about the medium, message, and reception. It used to be the medium was radio or a record, the message is the content, and the reception was just somebody absorbing the content.
      Exactly, art is communication. And that communication doesn't stop with just the first "somebody;" it continues until society has absorbed the content.
      The reason it sucks is that people who have been playing by the rules are getting screwed by file-sharing.
      No, it sucks because the copyright holders are trying to eliminate communication -- which would destroy the essence of the art. The file sharers are trying to protect it.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  35. Re:judicial activism? by DoubleWhopper · · Score: 3, Informative

    What does this have to do with activism? This is what judges are supposed to do.

    I don't think so. Judges are supposed to make rulings based upon the written law, not based upon their opinion of the written law. It's called judicial activism because rather than judging, they are legislating, and thus abusing their power by setting up their own law apart from that approved by those elected by the people specifically as representative lawmakers. (This is from a US perspective. The French system may be different.)

  36. Re:Too Far? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
    that should be their right as long as they own the property.
    Then they don't have that right, because they don't own the property. Society does, and we're letting them borrow it from us. So yeah, I'm glad to see that we're finally asserting our rights.

    In case you want to disgree, think about this: copyright expires. It does so so that the art can be returned to society, it's rightful owner. If it were otherwise -- if the artist owned it -- wouldn't the expiration of copyright have to be considered stealing?
    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  37. Copyright isn't about protecting tangible goods... by cnelzie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...copyright is about protecting the right to profit from an otherwise easily copyable work.

    That's all it does.

    If you infrigne on someone's copyright, you aren't stealing anything, what you are doing is taking away their legal right to profit from the work they own the rights to profit from.

    The right to profit from an easily copyable work is something that should be protected and at the same time it shouldn't be continually extended as it has been during the past 20 or so years.

    --
    If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
  38. bad as Prohibition? by jafac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a proponent of legalized file-swapping/P2P, but even I don't equate the impact of over-zealous IP law with that of Prohibition.

    The Mafia had running gun-battles with tommy guns with the police through the streets of Chicago.

    -to say nothing of the devestation that modern drug prohibition has wrought on our society.

    File-swapping is a tempest in a teapot compared to the impact of drug/alcohol prohibition. My biggest concern is that file-swapping prohibition might lead to erosion of free speech and fair use rights, and amounts to government pandering to what should be an illegal cartel (RIAA/MPAA/BSA).

    The two situations compared amount to a false analogy.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  39. Re:Judicial Activism by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is actually a tricky subject. On the face of it, yes they shouldn't have an "opinion". However, within a system of checks-and-balances, it is the responsibility of the judiciary to interpret the laws and even decicide if they are unconstituational or unenforcable.

    Where it can get tricky is do you believe the constitution is a "complete" document. Do you believe we are only due those rights speicifically spelled out in the constitution over 250 years ago or are there other rights we should be afforded even if they aren't really laid out in the constitution? The US government was basically laid out at a time when the assumption was the legislative branch couldn't get TOO far out of control because they have to answer to the people. Because of this they have the sole right to add constituational amendments with a 2/3 vote. Once this is done, in theory there is nothing the judiciary can do about it.

    Today, in many ways you could argue the legislative branch doesn't really have to answer to the people. Its more they have to answer to the social eliete and those people can help them get elected. There is certinaly talk about media being liberal or conservitive and if the legislative makes those in charge of the media happy thats all they need to worry about as the media can then take care of convincing the "people" who to vote for. Personally, I don't think it has gotten too far out of hand and the system is still working, but this is the worry.

    If the legislative DID get WAY out of control they could just pass tons of constituational ammendments and completely by-pass the "balance" the judiciary was meant to provide.

    As an example, its pretty tough to read into the constitution that everyone is created equal and have the same rights, except in the case of gay marriage. Judges can easily see this and so are striking down such laws. So now there is talk of passing an amendment banning this to get by the judiciary. If this were to happen, what do you do? The constitution's core concepts clash with a new amendment so what do you do?

    This is where it gets REALLY tricky. Some people subscribe to the idea of "natural law" (I personally agree with this). In a nut-shell means that reguardless of what laws are written down, there are a "natural" set of laws which also exist. For example, of this from wikipedia Natural law is intended to function as a non-theistic standard by which laws may themselves be judged. One classic example is that of the Nazi final solution: the laws which permitted the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Poles, Communists, etc. may have been formulated and ratified within the legal structures of Germany, but they violated natural law..

    While I completely agree there is a natrual law, and cases like the above example is a time when it should have been envoked by someone THIS is the tricky part. Since this "natural" law is basically completely subjective, it could be used by idiot judges anywhere anytime for anything. There is no real way to say "OK, use this if Nazi are killing people but not if its something I want". It can be very dangerous in cases to use it and equally dangerous in other cases not to use it. Anyway, a use of "natural law" as the basis for a decision could easily be considered "judicial activisim". All the current talk currently about "judicial activisim" is really a bunch of crap. What they are doing now is thier JOB!!!! This balance is clearly spelled out! They ARE supposed to look at laws and decide if they are valid (unconstitional, unenforcable, etc), but those currently in power happen to want things which aren't strickly constitutional and are try to put pressure on the judiciary to have them stop doing thier jobs.

    Anyone who really buys into this "judicial activisim" stuff REALLY should have paid more attention in civics class.

    --
    "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  40. Re:Copyright isn't about protecting tangible goods by Travelsonic · · Score: 5, Informative
    >...copyright is about protecting the right to profit from an otherwise easily copyable work.

    what you are doing is taking away their legal right to profit from the work they own the rights to profit from.

    The right to profit from an easily copyable work is something that should be protected

    This is not what copyright laws were about, and to the true die-hard oldschool believer and many creators alike still isn't. Copyrights were not ment to be a way to control revenue. Copyrights were meant to promote creativity through the temporary granting of a monopoly over a particular work, kind of a "You have solo control over this work, do with it as you please until you have to give it up to public domain where others can build upon it." After that limited time, works would go into the public domain where they could be built upon, but as the extentions become more and more, this will be seen less and less often. As far as I am concerned though, creators don't have a right to profit, instead they have a right to try to profit (which I think the law works in that sense too), because quite frankly, you really don't know how well a work will do, popularity or profit wise, beforehand.

    --
    If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  41. Re:Too Far? by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Not really, prohibition wasn't about property rights which some would argue is the basis of a society.

    That's a political position, and one so noisily promoted in the US (by the Heiritage Foundation and its friends) that it's become mainstream. But it's not fundamental to society.

    In Europe, property rights are not generally considered to be more important than other rights. Europe, unlike the US, had a feudal era. Until about 200 years ago, most real estate was owned by a few powerful barons, who leased it out. It took some bloody revolutions to end that.

    That history matters, and is reflected in the legal system. Trespass and squatting are minor offenses, and in many circumstances legal, in England, for example.

    And copyright is not unquestionably "property". Legally, it's a statutory monopoly. As a US judge said in the MGM vs. Grokster case:

    • Let me say what I think your problem is. You can use these harsh terms, but you are dealing with something new, and the question is, does the statutory monopoly that Congress has given you reach out to that something new. And that's a very debatable question. You don't solve it by calling it 'theft.' You have to show why this court should extend a statutory monopoly to cover the new thing. That's your problem. Address that if you would. And curtail the use of abusive language.
  42. Engage brain before putting keyboard in gear... by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 2, Informative

    The French and American legal and judicial systems are different.

    The American system is based on English Common Law.

    The French system is based on The Napoleonic Code.

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_syst em)

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
  43. Finally some civilty by xnot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The comparision to Prohibition is an appropriate one. When a large number of people oppose a particular law, it's the laws problem, not the peoples problem. You simply can't argue against perception, and the perception of most people from the "mp3 era" is that file swapping is not theft.

    Whether it is or is not theft isn't the issue, the issue is the RIAA's refusal to take advantage of the situation by creating new products and services which mesh with the perceptions of consumers. Intstead they use their efforts to sue people who are only going to spend more time being careful before they go about pirating again. The lawsuits accomplish nothing but create an environment of anger and desire for retribution.

    There is a time for focusing on the problem and then there is a time for focusing on the solution. The RIAA spends most of their time in the former.

  44. Re:Too Far? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Are you suggesting that artists shouldn't be able to receive compensation for their work because "it belongs to society"?
    Not quite. I'm suggesting that the law should provide the greatest net benefit to society. If that's encouraging the creation of new works by enforcing funding of the artist (like it has been until recently), fine. If that's encouraging wide distribution of the works by allowing file sharing, that's fine too. It's all about where the need is -- and with the sharp reduction in the cost of (re)producing art due to the advent of the internet, and the rise (again) of folk art (e.g. Free Software, Creative Commons-licensed stuff, unsigned bands uploading their songs to P2P networks...) that need has shifted away from compensating the artist, because they no longer need to be compensated in order to create art.
    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  45. Re:Copyright isn't about protecting tangible goods by Black+Pete · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...what you are doing is taking away their legal right to profit from the work they own the rights to

    Careful there. You do not have the right to profit. You do have the right to attempt to profit.

    That may seem like a minor distinction, but it's actually a huge one. Confusing the two will only muddy the copyright water even further, which nobody needs.

  46. Re:A "two way slippery slope" by trentblase · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would call it a local maxima.

  47. Re:Theater by rainman_bc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One possible outcome might be the end of big budget movies

    As another poster wrote, how much is file sharing hurting George Lucas's pocketbook? Or the creators of Spider-Man or X-Men?

    Who are the file swappers stealing from? The black stuntman in the ads?

    Give me a break. Maybe movies like Gigli would never have been made. That's about where it ends IMO. The blockbusters would continue to get made regardless.

    IMO an open distribution method would encourage theatre use.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  48. Re:so? what is wrong with socialism? by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What he is talking about is just freedom. Freedom to work and live without domineering forces. I was hoping that some of you free market slashdotters would start to see the light because of the rather obvious case that sits right in front of us all--the monopoly power of cablecos and telcos. Obviously, they are inhibiting the advance of technology through their dominant power.

    Monopoly power, which government enables, isn't freedom or the free market. Much as what you say in that socialism doesn't exist, neither does the free market. Instead what we have is a corporate aristocracy. It bares no resemblance to Adam Smyth's capitalism.

    "I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
    Thomas Jefferson, 1814

    Falcon
  49. Ayn rand by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ayn Rand was a total and absolute asshole who was longing for the caveman days where the one with the biggest stick could beat the shit out of anyone else for no reason whatsoever.

    I don't know where you come up with Ayn Rand supporting violence as she opposed violence and the use of force against another.

    Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

    ... She very properly realized that, since the free market is built upon voluntary exchanges, capitalism requires firm moral limits, ruling out violence, coercion, fraud, etc...

    The Potowmack Institute
    If a society provided no organized protection against force, it would compel every citizen to go about armed, to turn his home into a fortress, to shoot any strangers approaching his door-- or to join a protective gang of citizens who would fight other gangs, formed for the same purpose, and thus bring about the degeneration of that society into the chaos of gang-rule, i.e., rule by brute force, into perpetual tribal warfare of prehistoric savages.

    The use of force-- even its retaliatory use-- cannot be left at the discretion of individual citizens. Peaceful co-existence is impossible if a man has to live under the constant threat of force to be unleashed against him by any of his neighbors at any moment. Whether his neighbor's intentions are good or bad, whether their judgement is rational or irrational, whether they are motivated by a sense of justice or by ignorance or by prejudice or by malice-- the use of force against one man cannot be left to the arbitrary decision of another.

    Falcon