Next Generation Cat Fight

My dad is tougher than your dad! by xutopia · 2005-06-01 05:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

Usually these exclamations have no value whatsoever except in this case the daddys will be in the ring soon and we'll have real data to show who wins.

My idea is that they'll both be successful to varying degrees.

Re:My dad is tougher than your dad! by |/|/||| · 2005-06-02 03:44 · Score: 1

Both? Don't forget about Microsoft - they've got enough cash to bleed for another generation or two. Maybe you excluded them because they're making some sort of "home entertainment/media" machine, rather than a gaming system?

--
[javac] 100 errors

Hard to imagine... by TripMaster+Monkey · 2005-06-01 05:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Quote from Robbie Bach in TFA:

Sony's [PS3] will be able to use seven controllers simultaneously and connect with two high-definition TV sets. But it's hard to share a single screen with seven people, and it's also difficult to imagine a room with two high-definition TV sets.

Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory...

Oops...

--
____

~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

Re:Hard to imagine... by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 05:23 · Score: 1

You do have to admit 7 is a strange number for controllers... why not 8? Which team gets the extra controller? Or perhaps they should of just limited it to 6 if 7 is all the hardware can handle ;)

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Hard to imagine... by rokzy · 2005-06-01 05:26 · Score: 2, Informative

they use bluetooth. bluetooth is limited to 7. they're just saying you could connect 7 devices and a controller is a device. it has nothing to do with games having seven players or anything. it was probably started by a marketer, not a real person with sense.
Re:Hard to imagine... by FidelCatsro · 2005-06-01 05:35 · Score: 1

Actualy its limited to 8 iirc , but the console is the first device

--
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Re:Hard to imagine... by 0kComputer · 2005-06-01 05:41 · Score: 2, Informative

Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory...

That would be funny if he actually said that but he didn't fucking say it.

Now please take your trolls somewhere else.

--
Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
10.
Re:Hard to imagine... by JAHA · 2005-06-01 05:45 · Score: 1

pfff...how many people have two REGULAR tv sets in one room. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but, it's a perfectly valid criticism.
Re:Hard to imagine... by VStrider · 2005-06-01 05:47 · Score: 4, Funny

No! No, no, not 6! I said 7. Nobody's comin' up with 6. Who plays with 6 controllers?? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office...cause you're fuckin' fired!

--
VStrider.
Re:Hard to imagine... by NanoGator · 2005-06-01 05:57 · Score: 1

"Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory..."

I don't get it, are you ignorant or are you saying Robbie Bach is right?

--
"Derp de derp."
Re:Hard to imagine... by VStrider · 2005-06-01 06:02 · Score: 1

Ok, not many people got it. It's a quote from "There's something about Mary". The scene with the hitchhiker talking about 6 min abs. It's funny. Laugh.

--
VStrider.
Re:Hard to imagine... by TripMaster+Monkey · 2005-06-01 06:14 · Score: 1

Neither...I was being ironic...sorry that escaped you.

Next time I'll keep you in mind and use my <irony> tag.

--
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Re:Hard to imagine... by NanoGator · 2005-06-01 06:21 · Score: 1

"Next time I'll keep you in mind and use my tag."

Well, if have to explain your sarcasm...

Oh well, I can't say I'm not guilt-free here.

--
"Derp de derp."
Re:Hard to imagine... by HiredMan · 2005-06-01 06:45 · Score: 2, Funny

[Steve Martin]
"Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. - We haven't had any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was getting tired of being stared at."
[/Steve Martin]

--
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
Re:Hard to imagine... by chrisbtoo · 2005-06-01 07:18 · Score: 1

I doesn't really matter whether the Gates/RAM thing is true or not. The point is that Bach here is saying "[it's] difficult to imagine a room with two high-definition TV sets".

Their whole XBox 360 launch thing was about how this was the "HD era", and yet the Chief XBox Dude can't forsee a time when you'd hook up 2 HD displays? Can he imagine a time when you might have a PC with 2 monitors hooked up to it?

--
Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997
Re:Hard to imagine... by pnice · 2005-06-01 07:52 · Score: 1

I have played with 8 controllers/people on the PS2 (using two multitaps) on one screen and it isn't really hard to play on just one screen...it just takes the right type of game to make it work. We played Winning 11 and ESPN NHL 2k5 and it was fun for all 8 people. Even though these were not our favorite types of games, we still had fun playing 4 on 4 with 8 people being in on the action. It was a good night and a lot of fun. Just because you wouldn't want to play Halo in 8 tiny windows on one TV doesn't mean you wouldn't like playing another game that can actually make it work.

I also had the PS2 link cable running between the living room and game room walls so we could play other PS2 games on each TV without sharing a screen (like Gran Turismo)

--
My Xbox Live Gamer Card
Re:Hard to imagine... by elrous0 · 2005-06-01 08:24 · Score: 1

Neither...I was being ironic...sorry that escaped you.
Bullshit. You quoted an urban legend, got busted on it, and are too proud to admit it.

-Eric

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Re:Hard to imagine... by Anti_zeitgeist · 2005-06-01 10:33 · Score: 1

most of the people on slashdot dont even have 7 "real" friends let alone people to play video games with.

--
If it wasn't for C, we would be stuck using BASI, PASAL and OBOL.
Re:Hard to imagine... by superpulpsicle · 2005-06-01 10:37 · Score: 1

Glad you filled it in. I was going to propose he stop smoking his lawn ASAP.
Re:Hard to imagine... by kieronb · 2005-06-01 12:04 · Score: 1

With bluetooth, you get 8 devices. The console itself is the first, leaving seven for peripherals.
Which aren't necessarily just controllers, it's also the remote for the DVD software, you eye-toy camera, lightgun, dance dance revolution mat, and so on...
Re:Hard to imagine... by unclethursday · 2005-06-01 12:36 · Score: 1

There are 7 SPEs on the PS3. One of my developer friends speculates that each SPE can handle 1 controller, hence, 7 wireless controllers.
Re:Hard to imagine... by pboulang · 2005-06-02 02:13 · Score: 1

Thanks for the clarification captain obvious. Now please explain how in this context you felt you added any value whatsoever?
It's like you corrected someone that used the term "4 wheel drive" by explaining how cars actually have 5 wheels, but one is a spare, so that 4 wheel drive actually just means 4 wheels are used to drive.

--
This comment is guaranteed*
*not guaranteed
Re:Hard to imagine... by pboulang · 2005-06-02 02:16 · Score: 1

Ok, not many people got it.
umm, you waited 15 minutes... how do you know?

--
This comment is guaranteed*
*not guaranteed
Re:Hard to imagine... by pboulang · 2005-06-02 02:19 · Score: 1

Wow. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

--
This comment is guaranteed*
*not guaranteed
Re:Hard to imagine... by el_womble · 2005-06-02 02:34 · Score: 1

From you're usnews link:

Q. Will we always have a desktop PC like the one on your desk?
A. It will be a huge flat screen, so the viewing size will be dramatically larger than it is now. It will be your preferred device to leave things on and [will] have a pen to make marks on things. Your input will be a combination of keyboard, pen, mouse, and speech. But yes, at your desk you'll have that device. When you walk away from the desk you'll take a tablet-sized device with you.

I've got a 20" iMac G5. It has a pen tablet for graphics, crappy speech input, and I use a 12" PowerBook when I'm away from my desk. I keep everything on my G5 except my current working set of files which I synchronise (and in a way backup) via iDisk.

This interview was taken in 2001, so I guess the 3 years it took Apple to make the dream a reality is about right. Maybe it was Cupertino starting their photocopiers for a change... except you'll be pushed to find such an elegant solution on the WinTel platform.

--
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
Re:Hard to imagine... by VStrider · 2005-06-02 03:50 · Score: 1

things happen quite fast over here. you must be new, judging from your ID...ooops, disregard.

--
VStrider.
Re:Hard to imagine... by VStrider · 2005-06-02 04:02 · Score: 1

Yes, it did sound like dwarves. The website I copied the quote from, says doors, so I went with this one.

--
VStrider.

Why fight? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 05:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

All 3 consoles will be damn near equal...there's no difference really except for the games and services now... It's time for an Open Console, but I doubt any of these three will want to give up their licencing fees...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Re:Why fight? by brotherscrim · 2005-06-01 05:27 · Score: 1

I doubt this will ever really happen, as there is already an open gaming console that can do a LOT more than anything MS, Sony, or Nintendo has to offer.

You're reading /. on it right now.
Re:Why fight? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 05:46 · Score: 1

Nope, a PC is fundamentally different than a console... PC's can come in all sorts of configurations and speeds as while if there were an Open Console Standard you wouldn't have to worry if you have the newest video card or enough ram b/c you'd do it in generations, all players would have to meet a certification to call themselves (whatever the standard is dubbed) and then if you want to make a more powerful console you do it to the Open Console 2.0 spec, etc... As for an open standard never happening I guess you're right... look at how standardized DVDs never took off. I have to buy Sony DVD players to play Sony movies and a Warner bros. player for my warner bros. movies...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Why fight? by Ian+Action · 2005-06-01 05:53 · Score: 1

I think that an open console would be somewhat cost-inhibited, as consoles generally sell at a loss, and recoup it through licencing fees.
Look up the info on the 3D0 for a sample of a different hardware sales model...

I kinda like the 'choice' though, as even though the design are similar each console tend to excel at certain things.

--
Why am I not rapping? I am rapping with you in a way.
Re:Why fight? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 06:05 · Score: 1

yeah, cost would definitely be a tough hurdle...but not impossible. It would have to come out at around $300 or no one would care...just like what happened with the 3D0 going for $700. However, the 3D0 wasn't an open console....it was a "standard" created by one company and then licenced to others....

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Why fight? by brotherscrim · 2005-06-01 06:22 · Score: 1

All I was trying to point out here was that the energy in writing games for a fixed standard is already being spent by game companies on the 1-3 consoles they feel like making a game for, and that those who want to make an "open" game or at least a game which won't cost money in licensing fees to a console manufacturer already have an option: the PC.

To EA, there's no benefit in having an open console, really. If said console had any market penetration at all, they'll make a game for it. Many game companies make PS2-only games, and not just because they signed an exclusivity deal with Sony. The PS2 sold the most units, so some companies make some games that are only for the PS2. To the game company, the licensing fees aren't really much of an issue, as they represent a tiny fraction of the cost of making the game.

For companies that want to make simpler, stranger, or "unacceptable" games - the PC provides an outlet for their software. The fact that it's not standardised does little to prevent game companies from making money on the games.

It's a lot like any other kind of entertainment: If you want to make a lot of money on a television program, you have to work within existing distrobution channels and their rules. If your program has nudity, then it's not going to make it to the major networks (which sports the largest number of viewers). For those kinds of shows, there are still options with fewer restrictions, and fewer viewers.
Re:Why fight? by Jacius · 2005-06-01 06:57 · Score: 2, Informative

You must have some insider info on Nintendo's console, then! From what I've read, Nintendo's console will, in terms of specs, be significantly less powerful than either PS3 or Xbox 360. Of course, Nintendo's counting on their console being superior in some way that turns out to be more important than pure processing power. (Maybe it will have a funnitude rating of 33!!!)

An Open Console would be really nice, but (like you pointed out) the only market-players with the means to mass-produce a new console have an economic motive not to do so. There have been hobbyist projects in the past to make small, Linux-based console systems, but none of them really took off, even among FOSS enthusiasts.

And of course, Joey Newshoes, age 13, doesn't want to build his own console just to play some crummy tetris clone. For an Open Console to become truly popular, it would have to a) be available in retail stores, and b) have a good selection of quality games. The latter might be possible as more commercial-quality games are being made/ported to Linux. The former is almost inconceivable, from an economic standpoint, because it would require a lot of resources to mass-produce the consoles, and a profit would have to be made without the licensing fees, which means trying to undercut the 3 major players on price.

Frankly, I think our best bet would be a regular Linux PC with a TV-out port and some USB controllers. Consoles all have standard hardware, but is variation in hardware a problem? With a couple abstraction layers between the hardware and the game, the difference between e.g. an AMD and an Intel approaches zero.

There will always be a difference in performance (e.g. 1Ghz vs 2Ghz), but games can have a low minimum requirements and scale up with additional hardware, if they are so programmed. The only problem I see with this in the Windows game market is that the developers are actually pushing for faster hardware, making the system requirements higher each year, so that consumers are pressured into upgrading. If anyone should be able to avoid that temptation, it's FOSS developers.
Re:Why fight? by buffer-overflowed · 2005-06-01 07:09 · Score: 1

No, it's on par with MS's 360 according to every bit of info that's been leaked. The only difference is the number of cores on the CPU and clock speed, but they're equivalent. Both are a bit below the theoretical max performance on the PS3. Which of course is a number pulled out of the nether regions of a jack-ass. The GCN is below the theoretical max performance of the PS2, and it looks 2 times better and doesn't have load times.

Therefore, I can conclude that the Revolution will look/perform better than the PS3. Right?

Oh and of course the revolution doesn't do some of the things the 360/PS3 will do(like uber HD resolutions), but it's in the same league when it comes to RAW CPU/GPU POWAH.

--
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Re:Why fight? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 07:49 · Score: 1

Actually....having to code for an extremely wide range of systems makes the PC game design and programming much harder... With a console everyone has the same amount of ram and the same processor speed so you can really focus on optimizing for that instead of stretching yourself thin... Why do you think that 95% of all games are only on console these days? As far as consumers are concerned... installing a PC game is "too hard" when they can just drop a disc in their console and play it. Also alot of people associate their PC with work and the desk isn't as comfortable as the couch....the list goes on.

As far as what I meant by open... I'm not proposing a do it yourself box...I mean I guess you could...but it'd be easier to buy a prebuilt one. Even though I'm sure Nintendo, Sony and MS would be against it (at first)...if developers, small and independent especially started making a ton of games for it, it would have a definite shot. Buying an SDK or 20 along with licencing fees kill any chance of the little guy being able to afford console development on a shoestring budget. It's clear the "big guys" are just gonna keep pushing out crap games until there's a viable indy market ready to create new and interesting games...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Why fight? by Jacius · 2005-06-01 10:06 · Score: 2, Informative

The numbers I've seen say the Rev is "2-3 times" more powerful than the GCN, while the Xbox 360 is "13-15 times" more powerful than the Xbox 1, and the PS3 is "35 times" more powerful than the PS2.

Looking at this page, it looks like Xbox's numbers are bigger than Gamecube's in every category. And while the PS2's are smaller, the reported 35-fold increase in performance would put them well above 2-3 times increase over GCN.

So, I hope you can understand how I came to the conclusion that the Xbox 360 and PS3 are more powerful. I'm not claiming that the numbers are what's important, only that (according to reports from the companies themselves), the Xbox360/PS3 have more "RAW CPU/GPU POWAH" than the Revolution.
Re:Why fight? by buffer-overflowed · 2005-06-01 11:02 · Score: 1

The revolution is rumored to be using a 4 core PPC processor running at 2.5GHz. The 360 is a 3 core PPC processor running at 3GHz. The GPUs are both ATI and comparable. Memory, bandwidth and structure are different.

--
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Re:Why fight? by Jacius · 2005-06-01 11:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

The days when game developers had to program for specific hardwares is long over (except, I'll note, in the console industry). Operating systems and libraries like OpenGL and SDL take care of most of that now. Or, at least, they could and should. Game developers should develop for a library (or libraries), not for a set of hardware. The library developers develop for an operating system (or several). The operating system developers are the ones who develop for hardware. It's all about abstraction layers.

As for the "problem" of varying performance between PCs: you plan. You sit down and you say "Ok, we're targeting a system with 500Mhz processor and 64MB RAM. First, we make it fun. If we have time later, we can add toggle-able eye candy (stencil shadows, particle effects, etc.) that take bigger hardware." And then you do what you said. Although, you'd probably be better off forgetting the "If we have time later" part, because a) you won't, and b) it doesn't matter anyway.

From what I can see, most developers don't do this. Most programmers get off on the latest techno-crap like "bump mapping" and "per-pixel shading" which aren't even worth the development time to implement. But the programmers think it's interesting, and the hype-machine convinces consumers that it matters, so they don't spend time on the stuff that actually matters.

In short, the fixed hardware on consoles is a crutch that forces developers to spend at least some of their time on stuff that matters. It enforces a limit that developers should be enforcing for themselves. If the developers had the will-power to keep themselves away from their shiny toys, that hardware limit wouldn't be needed.

Moving on, there's no reason a PC game has to be "installed" any more than a console game has to be installed, except that PC developers like to take advantage of the access speed of hard-drives (which consoles historically have not had). It's certainly possible to run a program off of a CD (even in Linux), and software could even be written to control it with a USB controller.

And, if you had a TV-out port and USB controllers, you could put your PC-console-thing down in the living room where you put your other consoles, and play it sitting on the couch. Most PC towers are quite large these days, but they don't have to be.

Like I said, a homebrew box is probably the most feasible plan; a pre-built Open Console just wouldn't survive in today's market. Maybe, just maybe, they could be sold online and create a niche market. Then it might have a chance for indie developers to make games on it, and slowly expand the market by word of mouth (if these indie developers can force themselves to make fun games instead of eye candy). But if it's Open, what's to stop some other company from saying "Look! We made one that's just like the old one, but with MORE MEGS!" All the weak-willed developers would develop for that console so they could make more eye candy (and making it impossible to play their games on the old console), and we'd have the PC market all over again.

But still... someone show me an Open Console priced and under $150 with a decent API, and I'd buy one myself just to make my own games on, even if no one else bought it.

I agree with you that there's not a snowflake's chance in hell that the Big 3 are going to take the risk involved to do this. For one thing, their shareholders would just shoot whatever CEO tried to do that, because it makes absolutely no business sense.
Re:Why fight? by KDR_11k · 2005-06-02 05:18 · Score: 1

The numbers I've seen say that developers are making 5-20k poly characters for the next gen (most likely X360). Considering RE4 used 5-10k poly characters you could call that 2-3 times as powerful.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Why fight? by KDR_11k · 2005-06-02 05:34 · Score: 1

You forgot "entering the fucking CD Key".

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Why fight? by apoc06 · 2005-06-03 03:37 · Score: 1

I doubt this will ever really happen, as there is already an open gaming console that can do a LOT more than anything MS, Sony, or Nintendo has to offer.

You're reading /. on it right now.

you mean webTV? or do you mean my PSP =)
Re:Why fight? by brotherscrim · 2005-06-03 04:50 · Score: 1

Quiet, you
Re:Why fight? by mink · 2005-06-08 02:24 · Score: 1

Keep in mind that the Gamecube uses a PPC based processor so the jump up to the Revolution isn't as big a deal as it is for the Xbox360 and PS3.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

IBM by turtled · 2005-06-01 05:21 · Score: 4, Informative

And you know who makes out? IBM, they are the core processor for all 3 nextGen consoles. Good for them...

--
"I cannot think of any need in childhood as strong as the need for a father's protection." -- Sigmund Freud

Re:IBM by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 05:54 · Score: 1

I just hope this means more cross platform games...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:IBM by Eugene · 2005-06-01 06:24 · Score: 1

although CPU probably derived from the same core (PPC?) but each final product is very different from each other. on the top of that, the GPU is totally different, and for console, CPU and GPU are tightly coupled (almost to the point both could be consider CPU IMHO). Sony also use Cell processor... What does Revolution use for GPU?(I have no clue)

all 3 console might be using the same instruction set, but it doesn't mean cross platform will be easier.
Re:IBM by buffer-overflowed · 2005-06-01 06:40 · Score: 1

Nintendo has an ATI developed GPU. Same as MS. Sony's using something Nvidia developed.

--
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Re:IBM by Moofie · 2005-06-01 12:46 · Score: 1

Dude, pass that shit you're smoking.

--
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!

Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by synaptik · 2005-06-01 05:32 · Score: 1

The Nintendo spokesman's comments are pure gold! From TFA:

Asahi Shinbun (interviewer): What has Nintendo learned from its previous game machine release?

Satoru Iwata (nintendo): .... I'm feeling a real sense of danger about the decline in the Japanese gaming population. Patting a dog and telling it to stay [in Nintendogs] is something that anyone can enjoy. We're aiming to increase the population of game players with these new kinds of games. (emphasis mine.)

{{backs away slowly}} Thank you for that demographic insight, Nintendo. I will take that into account as I spend my game-console dollars...

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER

Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by StocDred · 2005-06-01 05:38 · Score: 1

Yeah, I love Nintendo quotes like that. You just wish they'd shut up once in a while and quit releasing statements like that that can easily be taken out of context. That little nugget of wisdom will be used as a pull quote in boldface on the inevitable EGM article about next-gen machines, doing more harm than good.
The thing about Nintendo is, they usually have the right idea, they just pick the stupidest way possible to say it.
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by synaptik · 2005-06-01 05:46 · Score: 1

In hindsight, I suppose it could be a cultural difference thing. After all, the Japanese loved Tamagotchi and Aibo. I just can't fathom being personally interested in that type of console game. Perhaps it's the fact that my family includes two living, breathing dogs. I suppose that, if I lived in a high-populated area ill-suited to real animal pets, I'd find this Nintendogs game to be a cathartic surrogate, too.

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by porcupine8 · 2005-06-01 05:47 · Score: 1

Me too. Nintendo continues to be the best choice for those of us who have no interest in watching photorealistic explosions or carrying as much ammo as we can hold.
*goes back to her game of Tetris Attack*

--
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 05:51 · Score: 2

Did I miss the punchline? That sounds like a pretty valid statement... The gaming population and revenues in Japan are steadily decreasing each year and games just keep getting more complex and inaccessable to newcomers. Nintendogs is like the top selling game in Japan, so if you want to make fun of them for that then you've got some issues...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by synaptik · 2005-06-01 05:55 · Score: 1

Nintendogs is like the top selling game in Japan, so if you want to make fun of them for that then you've got some issues...

More like, I didn't know it was a top-selling game there. Of course, that doesn't preclude me from having 'issues', but it does at least point out that your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from your premise.

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 06:02 · Score: 1

Sorry for jumping so quickly at you....I'm just tired of people picking on Nintendo for no good reason. I mean, I have my fair share of critism too, but most peoples' comments (real life too, not just slashdot) are pretty unfounded. If you didn't know better you'd think half the "gamers" out there are bankrolled by Sony or Microsoft...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by synaptik · 2005-06-01 06:07 · Score: 1

It's all good. I don't sweat the small stuff.

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by Daetrin · 2005-06-01 10:10 · Score: 1

Thank you for that demographic insight, Nintendo. I will take that into account as I spend my game-console dollars...
Exactly what kind of informed purchasing decision making is that? You should be concerned about A: how many games do they have that you like, and B: how many games there are that you like but that they don't have. How many games they produce which you don't like should have no bearing on the outcome.

Given that i like RPGs and don't like sports games should i decide not to get a PS2 because it has lots of sports games? No, i should decide to get one because it has lots of RPGs. If Nintendo figures out how to make games appeal to entirely new demographics it's no skin off your nose as long as they also produce games that _you_ like.

--
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by synaptik · 2005-06-01 10:40 · Score: 1

I initially took their statement to mean that they were refocusing their efforts to a new demographic, wholesale. I have since admitted in other replies that I was being a bit americocentric in my original comment.

I too favor RPGs, although I occasionally indulge in some FPS titles.

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by Suddenly_Dead · 2005-06-01 12:25 · Score: 1

Nintendo seems to be aiming for (and may succeed in a degree) two things:

1) Non-gamers will play their games. The people who don't care for the GTAs and Halos of gaming (or may be bored of them), the type who would like something that's intuitive, easy, and fun to play. Oddball things like Nintendogs, Electroplankton, and whatever the heck the Revolution is should only help that.

2) Gamers may want the Nintendo Revolution in addition to one of the other consoles. It's likely that, with the low power estimations they've been giving us (though they tend to be quiet), the console will not be that expensive. It is also likely that it will have some off the wall controller or the likes, and it will definately have ROM downloading. These things could make it attractive to normal gamers, even if they already have an Xbox360 or PS3. Not a replacement for those, since it can't stand in the normal gaming sense, but as an addition.

That and they're indeed completely nuts =)
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by Jacius · 2005-06-01 13:38 · Score: 1

Are you afraid you'll be considered less of a man (or woman as the case may be) because you buy Nintendogs?

Search your feelings... you know it to be soooo cute!
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by KozmoStevnNaut · 2005-06-01 22:45 · Score: 1

As well as those of us who happen to enjoy watching explosions and haulin' ammo as well as fiddling around with insidious puzzle games :)

*goes back to... work*

--
Eat the rich.
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by elrous0 · 2005-06-02 02:26 · Score: 2, Funny

After all, the Japanese loved Tamagotchi and Aibo.
Just what the Hell did we put in that bomb, anyway?

-Eric

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Re:Nintendo's comments are pure gold! by mink · 2005-06-08 02:29 · Score: 1

If you looked arouns, you will find that Creatures and CAts/Dogs were incredably popular PC games here in the States and I suspect in other parts of the world.
These types of games have a wide appeal to people who are onthe fringes of gaing and is a much larger group then actual gamers. YOu will see them bought for kids by parents, toyed around with by parents and sometimes loaded at work.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

Good thing they're keeping their egos in check... by porcupine8 · 2005-06-01 05:49 · Score: 1

From the Sony guy:

The current DVD [format] had a slow growth during its first three years of release, but it dramatically penetrated [through the market] after the release of the PS2, and its software prices had gone down.

Am I totally misinterpreting this comment, or is he really giving the PS2 credit for the dominance of DVDs? Does he just mean DVD as a software medium, or all DVDs?

--
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.

Re:Good thing they're keeping their egos in check. by NanoGator · 2005-06-01 05:59 · Score: 1

"Am I totally misinterpreting this comment, or is he really giving the PS2 credit for the dominance of DVDs? Does he just mean DVD as a software medium, or all DVDs?"

I think he means that it was tough to use DVD format for the PS2 (software, not movies) at first, but then in the end it worked out. The context is Sony's decision to use the higher density discs.

--
"Derp de derp."

What? by ivan256 · 2005-06-01 06:00 · Score: 1

The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas. We will become the market leader with our next-generation console.

Ok, two things... What does sales of Xbox have to do with sales of the next generation? That only tells you about how the current generation is stacking up against the competition.

Also, don't you think there's a pretty good chance that Xbox outsold PS2 last christmas because everybody already had a PS2?

I doubt any of this even matters anyway. They're both going to sell boatloads of machines. The real question is which of them will be able to turn the most profit on them. By that metric, even Nintendo, with the lowest market share of the three, totally wiped the floor with Microsoft these last few years.

Re:What? by Lemental · 2005-06-02 05:30 · Score: 1

Not really, in my neck of the woods. PS2's were being traded in for Xboxes left and right. We had about 30 PS2's traded in one week alone for Xbox. When we ran out, people began trade it in for cash so they could go buy an Xbox where there was some in stock.

Re:Good thing they're keeping their egos in check. by leland242 · 2005-06-01 06:05 · Score: 1

When the PS2 launched in Japan, I believe it was the cheapest DVD player on the market. It is very likely that the PS2 had a lot to do with DVD popularity in Japan.

Note: I am a Nintendo fanboy, so don't think I'm biased on this. I picked that nugget up from Icons on G4.

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 06:10 · Score: 1

I'm still waiting for it to hit the $99 mark myself... There's only one game I want to play on it...so I can wait.

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Fuck Everything, We're Doing Seven Controllers by 0kComputer · 2005-06-01 06:23 · Score: 3, Funny

Adapted from an onion article: http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/Gillett e.html

Would someone tell me how this happened? We were the fucking vanguard of gaming in this country. The Sony Playstation3 was the razor to own. Then the other guy came out with a three-blade razor. Were we scared? Hell, no. Because we hit back with a little thing called the Playstation3Turbo. That's three Controllers and an aloe strip. For moisture. But you know what happened next? Shut up, I'm telling you what happened - the bastards went to four Controllers. Now we're standing around with our cocks in our hands, selling three Controllers and a strip. Moisture or no, suddenly we're the chumps. Well, fuck it. We're going to Seven Controllers.

James M. Kilts CEO and President, The Sony Company

Sure, we could go to four Controllers next, like the competition. That seems like the logical thing to do. After all, three worked out pretty well, and four is the next number after three. So let's play it safe. Let's make a thicker aloe strip and call it the Playstation3 SuperTurbo. Why innovate when we can follow? Oh, I know why: Because we're a business, that's why!

You think it's crazy? It is crazy. But I don't give a shit. From now on, we're the ones who have the edge in the multi-blade game. Are they the best a man can get? Fuck, no. Sony is the best a man can get.

What part of this don't you understand? If two Controllers is good, and three Controllers is better, obviously Seven Controllers would make us the best fucking gaming that ever existed. Comprende? We didn't claw our way to the top of the gaming game by clinging to the two-blade industry standard. We got here by taking chances. Well, Seven Controllers is the biggest chance of all.

Here's the report from Engineering. Someone put it in the bathroom: I want to wipe my ass with it. They don't tell me what to invent - I tell them. And I'm telling them to stick two more Controllers in there. I don't care how. Make the Controllers so thin they're invisible. Put some on the handle. I don't care if they have to cram the fifth blade in perpendicular to the other four, just do it!

You're taking the "safety" part of "safety razor" too literally, grandma. Cut the strings and soar. Let's hit it. Let's roll. This is our chance to make gaming history. Let's dream big. All you have to do is say that Seven Controllers can happen, and it will happen. If you aren't on board, then fuck you. And if you're on the board, then fuck you and your father. Hey, if I'm the only one who'll take risks, I'm sure as hell happy to hog all the glory when the Seven-blade console becomes the gaming tool for the U.S. of "this is how we shave now" A.

People said we couldn't go to three. It'll cost a fortune to manufacture, they said. Well, we did it. Now some egghead in a lab is screaming "Seven's crazy?" Well, perhaps he'd be more comfortable in the labs at Norelco, working on fucking electrics. Rotary Controllers, my white ass!

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should just ride in Bic's wake and make pens. Ha! Not on your fucking life! The day I shadow a penny-ante outfit like Bic is the day I leave the console game for good, and that won't happen until the day I die!

The market? Listen, we make the market. All we have to do is put her out there with a little jingle. It's as easy as, "Hey, gaming with anything less than Seven Controllers is like scraping your beard off with a dull hatchet." Or "You'll be so smooth, I could snort lines off of your chin." Try "Your neck is going to be so friggin' soft, someone's gonna walk up and tie a goddamn Cub Scout kerchief under it."

I know what you're thinking now: What'll people say? Mew mew mew. Oh, no, what will people say?! Grow the fuck up. When you're on top, people talk. That's the price you pay for being on top. Which Sony is, always has been, and forever shall be, Amen, Seven Controllers, sweet Jesus in h

--
Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
10.

Re:Fuck Everything, We're Doing Seven Controllers by leland242 · 2005-06-01 08:16 · Score: 1

I wish I could mod you up!

Re:Good thing they're keeping their egos in check. by conigs · 2005-06-01 06:59 · Score: 1

In Japan, DVDs never cought on because the players were too expensive (like you said above)... People were still buying VCD (a concept north america never cought on to) and VHS.

Once the PS2 came out, it was a two-for-one... new gaming concol and video player priced well below the other DVD players. DVD sales shot up significantly.

--
Slashdot: where repeating an article in a post is "+5 Insightful"

Revolution not HighDef? by conigs · 2005-06-01 07:08 · Score: 1

from TFA:

"Creating game software in high definition will require everything from the [graphic's] models to the background to be redone, and it will bloat up development costs. And yet, it has no use for people that aren't playing with a high-definition TV set." -Satoru Iwata

Now, I'm a nintendo kid (at 23), but am I understanding this right? Is the Revolution not going to be High Definition? Granted I don't have a high def TV, but with HD DVD formats starting to emerge and more HD programming available, more and more people will start buring high def tvs (and consequently lower the cost and get more people to buy sets). I think they would be comitting suicide if they didn't have HD capabilities... hell, even 720p would be fine! Just don't kill yourself Nintendo!

--
Slashdot: where repeating an article in a post is "+5 Insightful"

Re:Revolution not HighDef? by Cornflake917 · 2005-06-01 09:55 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure it will have HD capabilities. They haven't released that much info about the system, so no one really knows for sure. But, they would have to be incredibly stupid to not include HD. And last time I check nintendo isn't THAT stupid.

--
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Re:Revolution not HighDef? by snuf23 · 2005-06-01 14:51 · Score: 1

You won't need high def to enjoy the innovative back catalogue of 8 and 16 bit Nintendo games from your youth that Nintendo wants you to pay money for again.
You like Excitebike? Twenty bucks! Again! Cha-ching!

I keed! (sort of)

--
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Re:Revolution not HighDef? by realityfighter · 2005-06-02 11:52 · Score: 1

Hmm...

Well, as someone who is loath to even spend money on a regular TV, and only uses her current one as a console monitor, I can say that I would definitely appreciate it if games on the next gen consoles didn't count on my having too much fancy third party equipment.

I know HDTV is big here on Slashdot, but to tell the truth, almost everyone I know has at least one gaming console and none of them have HDTV. It seems like the latest offerings from Sony and Microsoft are going to target better hardware than most care to purchase if they push HDTV compatability as a major selling point. I can't blame Nintendo for not wanting to follow in their footsteps; designing for the E3 convention hall will only get you so far.

--
A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
Re:Revolution not HighDef? by conigs · 2005-06-02 16:14 · Score: 1

You can include high definition capability and still maintain compatibility with standard definition monitors.

--
Slashdot: where repeating an article in a post is "+5 Insightful"

Damn headline by Lisandro · 2005-06-01 07:14 · Score: 1

Am i the only one who read that and expected porn of some sort?

Skewed by shamowfski · 2005-06-01 08:03 · Score: 1

The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas

That's because everyone already has a PS2...w00t.

He's right. by Adapt+or+Die · 2005-06-01 08:07 · Score: 1

It's a lot easier to have 16 separate HDTVs connected via the Internet by say... Xbox Live. Realistically, dual HDTVs is still a full console generation or two off.

If you have the means tho, more power to you.

I couldn't hate Kutaragi more. by Rallion · 2005-06-01 08:12 · Score: 1

The man's arrogance is mind-blowing.

Microsoft's arrogance is clearly planned and designed to bring them success. Ignore Nintendo, and so will gamers. That kind of thing. They do it in such a way that somebody who isn't paying attention could easily completely fail to realize that any arrogant attitude is there.

But look at this guy. How does saying something so blatantly arrogant help you? "Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan." Wow. Reminds me of last year's E3 when the man was subtly smug about how his marketing department's blatant lies managed to put the final nail in the coffin of Sega's hardware-making days.

The real problem, of course, is that people actually listen to this guy.

Re:I couldn't hate Kutaragi more. by sesshomaru · 2005-06-01 08:19 · Score: 1

Me niether, and I'm actually surprised that it took me until this generation to actually put a human name on everything I hate about Sony, considering I turned against them during the Playstation I era. He's obviously got a higher profile now...

--
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Re:I couldn't hate Kutaragi more. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-06-01 10:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

I blame Idei Noriyuki, the recently retired CEO of Sony. He was the first non-engineer to head Sony, and as such, he threw build quality out the window as a priority for Sony's products. His big thing was image, image, image - a marketroid. He was also responsible for taking Sony to brand new lows in profitability. This followed the leadership of one of Sony's co-counders (Morita Akio) and some of their brightest days.

At least Kutaragi is an engineer, and as such, can be forgiven for his stupid geek bravado in lieu of his diplomatic skills. In other words, high INT, low CHR. I won't say that Idei is the complete opposite of this, but you get the idea.

Idei recently passed on the leadership of Sony to a Welshman who doesn't even speak Japanese, who was previously the head of Sony Corp. of America. He was chosen ahead of Kutaragi, who was another major candidate (and would have been a better choice, I think).

I also blame NAFTA for being instrumental in Sony's decline in build quality in North America. Once upon a time, audio/videophiles would at least consider Sony's equipment, particularly stuff in their high-end ranges. Nowadays, Sony's name is a joke amongst people with money. I wouldn't buy a Sony product unless it was a Japanese-made Trinitron-based CRT TV or monitor or a disposable (key word) game console. I would never consider anything else with the Sony brand, ever.

I don't see good things in Sony's financial future, because the trends of their recent past and their present are have been so gloomy. Regardless, I am considering the purchase of a PS3 in addition to a Nintendo Revolution, just because the PS2 was good for some fine RPG love, and the PS3 probably will be too. If anything draws in the RPG devs, it's the promise that they can have more and more storage space to waste, which will be PS3's huge advantage with its Blu-Ray drive. The Revolution will be for everything else, and of course, the Nintendo exclusives (just like my trusty GameCube has been in this generation).

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by MaxQuordlepleen · 2005-06-01 08:38 · Score: 1

I disagree. I usually end up the console cycle with all the competing consoles, but I buy the most compelling early in the cycle and the others as price comes down. By the time I buy the second (third) console, good games are usually in the bargain bin, it's pretty clear where the not-to-be-missed games are, and I can get more gaming goodness for less overall dollars.

Think of it as dollar-cost-averaging for game consoles :P

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by KDR_11k · 2005-06-01 08:59 · Score: 1

If that's all you want save the money, FFX is nice but not great. Definitely not a game to buy a system for. You might want to look around a bit for more games (and make sure those are available in your region, two of the games I bought the system for never got released here).

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by KDR_11k · 2005-06-01 09:02 · Score: 1

Less popular games like Ico tend to be no longer available if you come in late. If there was a niche game you wanted a few years ago you can pretty much forget about it.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by ZephyrXero · 2005-06-01 09:55 · Score: 1

Don't worry...I had a Dreamcast and an Xbox both on their launch dates and a GC about a year after it came out.... I just see the PS2 as a worthless system and as I said before...the only PS2 exclusive game I want is the Final Fantasy series...so I can wait off a little while for 1 or 2 games...

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Mod parent up by jimi+the+hippie · 2005-06-01 10:09 · Score: 1

It is very true.

IBM Stock by mconeone · 2005-06-01 11:02 · Score: 1

Does this mean we should all buy some?

Give this man a mod point by mconeone · 2005-06-01 11:30 · Score: 1

pretty god damn funny

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by drxray · 2005-06-01 12:55 · Score: 1

http://attr-search.ebay.com/ico_Games_Sony-PlaySta tion-2_W0QQa14Z24233QQalistZa14QQcatrefZC3QQcatref ZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagen umZ1QQcurcatZtrueQQfposZQ5AIPQ2fPostalQQfromZR2QQf sooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQgcsZ1135QQpfidZ1413 QQsacatZ62053QQsadisZ200QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofo cusZbs

Maybe, 5 years ago. Now, we have ebay - Ico for $10. Only a few extremely rare games like Radiant Silvergun are more expensive than when they launched.

Plus, PS2 is cracked - get a mod chip and download the ISO if you genuinely can't find someone who'll take your money for a game. Only barely unethical :)

--
Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion

Kinda dumb, really... They're not really COMPETING by crazyphilman · 2005-06-01 18:06 · Score: 1

Show of hands: who has only one game console? Anybody? Hmm...

Ok, show of hands: who has two game consoles? Ok, that's about three quarters of you... Interesting.

Alright, let's see who has at least three game consoles? Wow. I didn't expect that many. Holy cow, there's a guy in the back with FIVE. And he games on his PC, too! Wow.

Well, it seems to me that the gaming companies aren't really competitors, because most people end up getting more than one console anyway. So, and this is just a hypothesis, maybe the game companies can just relax and share the market? It's not like any one of them is going to dominate in any real way, not with people splitting their energies between two or more.

Really.

--
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!

You're dissing because of *Nintendogs*?! by MilenCent · 2005-06-01 18:09 · Score: 1

Um....

Did you know that DS sales have once again surged ahead of PSP sales in Japan because of this game?

It's may be considered quite surreal, but it's true. Take a look:
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4781

Does this mean Nintendo will certainly win? No. But it's definitely an encouraging sign for them.

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by samdu · 2005-06-02 00:14 · Score: 1

I respect your opinion and your decision to wait, but it's a little baffling to me that you consider the stable of games on the PS2 not worth anything yet bought an X-Box at launch. Unless you're a FPS fan (Halo), the PS2 library has always had a better selection of games overall than the X-Box. It's only been in the last nine months or so that the X-Box has started to build a compelling library of exclusive titles and it's been a slow process, at that. I think once you plunk down the cash for a PS2, you'll find plenty of games to keep you occupied. Personally, I've put off getting an X-Box until there are more than two or three games that pique my interest that I can't get for the PC. So far, Ninja Gaiden is the only one. I picked up Halo for the PC and will get Halo 2 for the PC when it invariably gets released. Good gaming to ya! :)

Wasn't meant to be as derogatory as a 'dis'... by synaptik · 2005-06-02 03:28 · Score: 1

...just an expression of personal opinion and taste, and bewilderment at what Nintendo perceives to be the market sweetspot.

But regardless, I've already admitted my ignorance of the power of Nintendogs, elsewhere in this thread.

--
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER

Re:Wasn't meant to be as derogatory as a 'dis'... by MilenCent · 2005-06-02 07:08 · Score: 1

Hm.... I fear I may have spoken more strongly than was warrented. My apologies.

And you're right, the points I made were already made elsewhere, as I discovered after I posted. My bad.

Omitted Quote by Westacular · 2005-06-02 14:41 · Score: 1

Robbie Bach went on to add,

"Yeah, yeah, Sony's girlfriend may be a bit more attractive, but does she put out? Make no mistake: The XBox 360's penis is much, much larger, and it gets used all the time."

Re:Do the consoles really matter? by mink · 2005-06-08 02:36 · Score: 1

So far I've found Star Wars games to be of more variety and much more fun on the PC.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

Re:Good thing they're keeping their egos in check. by mink · 2005-06-08 02:39 · Score: 1

Also Laser Disk was still in use long after it "died" here in the states. Most of the good LD transfers and releases had to be imported from Japan during the last years of it's life.
Word is the LD of Phantom Menace is one of the best quality produced.
I wonder how it compares to the DVD?
The PS2 I think is what killed LD in Japan after so long.

--
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.

100 of 135 comments (clear)