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Microsoft Genuine Advantage Cracked

piyush ranjan writes "An Indian researcher has cracked the much-touted "impenetrable" Windows Genuine Advantage of Microsoft. According to Microsoft this service would soon require all Windows users to verify their license before downloading updates."

80 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. Text by krray · · Score: 5, Informative

    Indian cracks Microsoft's anti-piracy program

    Alok Sharma | June 21, 2005 14:53 IST

    An Indian researcher has breached the much-touted "impenetrable" Windows Genuine Advantage of Microsoft.

    Bangalore-based Debasis Mohanty has cracked WGA through an "easy-to-exploit" weakness in the software for generating illegal copies of the Windows XP programme.

    Microsoft confirmed the claims of Mohanty, but sought to downplay it saying, "It represents very little threat." A company spokesperson said they did expect counterfeiters to try a number of different methods to circumvent safeguards provided by WGA.

    WGA is an anti-piracy programme that keeps a tab on consumers whether they are running legitimately licensed copies of Windows XP.

    Mohanty has posted a detailed proof-of-concept programme on the high-profile security mailing list of the software giant, showing how the WGA validation check can be tricked to generate key codes for use on illegal copies of the software.

    Using a secondary Microsoft validation tool called 'genuinecheck.Exe', Mohanty claims to have made it possible for people to trick the safeguard mechanism and download and run the supposedly restricted software from Microsoft's download centre, he said.

    1. Re:Text by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

      Did he stick tape over the Windows key during installation?
      Or did he perhaps hold down the shift key.

      The world must know.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:Text by Slack3r78 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, he colored over the inner ring of the internet with a Sharpie.

    3. Re:Text by oahazmatt · · Score: 5, Funny
      Did he stick tape over the Windows key during installation? Or did he perhaps hold down the shift key.

      I share your amusement. Though I am by no means capable enough to perform such a task myself (those shift keys are tricky) it seems that a Microsoft program being cracked or broken or worked-around or otherwise finagled is not necessarily a breakthrough. I suppose the most news-worthy aspect of this particular crack was in response of someone sinking what Microsoft was apparently toting around as the Titanic.

      Interesting, yes. Front page? Maybe not other to rub it in Microsoft's face. This isn't the Special Olympics people. Not everyone gets a medal and a hug. :)

      --
      Those who believe the Internet is private,
      find their privates are on the Internet.
    4. Re:Text by yason · · Score: 2, Funny

      We don't know but one thing is certain: Microsoft still employs weaker key lengths than 10 fingers. No wonder it's broken so easily except for the most severely handicapped crackers.

      The day when eleven simultaneous keypresses are required, also known as "next order fingerography", will mark the line between ordinary hackers and the wittiest ubercrackers. It has been rumoured that some are already preparing for those times with prototypes of a so-called "Eine Fingermaschine". Also, the piracy rings of the Mafia already have much experience with handling fingers. Nevertheless, along with 11-finger keylengths and longer, casual piracy is expected to be given a literal "thumbs down" signal from Mr. Gates.

  2. Download? by nightemaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So... where can I download this?

    1. Re:Download? by aderen · · Score: 2, Funny

      What for? I thought everyone reading slashdot is using linux or mac.

  3. That's great microsoft... by chris09876 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I love how they say it represents very little threat. I guess we can expect them to save face, but someone must be kicking themselves over this one! "Very little threat" probably translates into millions of copies distributed over P2P networks :)

    1. Re:That's great microsoft... by ashmedai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Think about which is easier:

      1) Accessing a random legitimate install once for a minute or two.

      2) Accessing a legitimate install every time a new patch comes out, for however long it takes to download. Must also make arrangements to transport the downloaded files.

      That answer your question?

  4. Two quotes come to mind by 1967mustangman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first is from George Patton : "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man." The second is from Karl von Clausewitz: "If you entrench yourself behind strong fortifications, you compel the enemy seek a solution elsewhere." I think these speak volumes

    --
    Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
    1. Re:Two quotes come to mind by EggyToast · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Very true. Not to mention that in many cases, those little boring programs just use a basic serial and then say "Hey, crackers, please don't crack or distribute my app. It's just a basic algorithm, but it's how I make a living."

      It sometimes amazes me how many crackers do have a conscience about the smaller guys, and how hard it can be to find passwords or cracks to cheap applications.

      I almost liken it to the p2p v. itunes thing. When you can find a song for a buck in 30 seconds, compared to attempting to locate one for free over the course of 30 minutes, for many people the $1 method is a lot easier. For lots of people looking for random utilities or programs, when they find something that works, does a job well, and is cheap, they'll plink down the money for it. At least compared to finding a crack over the course of a week that may or may not work.

      The smaller guys can also simply change-up the algorithm for the cracked passwords for each release every few weeks, something the big guys can't really do ;D

    2. Re:Two quotes come to mind by Demanufacture · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think the reason that crackers don't crack smaller/cheap apps has anything to do with conscience. It has to do with the fact that there is more "cred" to be gained by cracking popular/expensive apps.

      --
      --- "When you're strange"
  5. You'd think this would be obvious by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft has the right to restrict product updates to only their paying customers.

    However, the installed base is huge and the illegally installed base is also huge. Microsoft, because it is their OS, has a moral responsibility to prevent internet worms and viruses by releasing patches to all users, regardless of the legality of the installation.

    Can MS really be held at fault when illegal usage of the OS results in a huge failure of the Internet?

    1. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by Scoria · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Can MS really be held at fault when illegal usage of the OS results in a huge failure of the Internet?

      I'll bite. Microsoft can only repair the vulnerabilities that they have been made aware of. If somebody uses a 0-day exploit to craft a worm, then I don't believe Microsoft can really be held accountable. That is like blaming the manufacturer of a safe for being susceptible to a heretofore undisclosed method of safe cracking.

      If it is a vulnerability that they've known about for months, however, not unlike many of those that affect Internet Explorer, then that should probably be considered a different story.

      Despite the accusations of trolling that you've received, however, I believe that you were right to distinguish an ethical responsibility from a legal one.

      --
      Do you like German cars?
    2. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by rpozz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (Mods, that's not a troll, it's a decent point)

      You'd probably be quite surprised at the number of legal copies of Windows that are in use. Most people get it whether they like it or not with their new computer. People running 98/ME usually find that their computer is under-spec to run 2K/XP and simply buy a new one. It's mainly people who build their own computer (and thus should know what they are doing) who pirate Windows.

      You still raise a very interesting question there though. I would say that they should allow anyone to update, mainly because many updates to Windows are security fixes and zombie machines adversely affect other users, not just the owner.

    3. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, given that all those patches and upgrades haven't even come close to eliminating malware, I'd say that free autoupdates aren't the issue. Foisting drain-bamaged operating system and applications software upon an unsuspecting populace is the real problem. Forget all this nonsense about "certifying" users to access the Internet and forcing ISPs to deal with malware ... let Windows get certified to be connected to the Internet. Governments all around the world have minimum safety standards that commercial products (ranging from cars to blow dryers to computers) have to meet before they can be sold. I have the feeling that if such a standard was implemented pretty much every other operating system out there would get reasonably high marks. Microsoft would have to go back to the drawing board and that's one place they absolutely do not want to go.

      Hell, just keep Windows off the market until you can run Satan against an unpatched, freshly-installed copy of XP and have nothing happen. Then maybe we'll have fewer problems with malware and crackers.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If somebody uses a 0-day exploit to craft a worm, then I don't believe Microsoft can really be held accountable. That is like blaming the manufacturer of a safe for being susceptible to a heretofore undisclosed method of safe cracking."

      I agree with you in one way, and yet in another way, I'm compelled to disagree. No, I'm not a Linux fanboy/Microsoft hater/etc, but if something is insecure from the begining, then someone needs to take responsibility. Sure, they might not know about the exploit, but if one exists, then that means someone didn't do their job in the begining.

      I realize it's probably fairly hard to create a product that is 100% exploit free, but I don't believe that just because it's hard/challenging that it relieves anyone/everyone from being held responsible.

    5. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by Scoria · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it would still depend on the obviousness of the exploit used.

      I'm not a Microsoft apologist. I never deploy Windows. I despise many of their tactics. I prefer a Unix-based operating system.

      That said, let's face it: A 0-day exploit can affect any operating system, no matter how secure we might consider it. That includes every clone and variant of Unix available today.

      As a programmer, you can take every precaution and still encounter a blatantly obvious -- to your critics, at least -- compromise. Although it really isn't a valid comparison, I'll cite the design problem that was eventually fixed in our beloved PHP interpreter. The end-user was once allowed to manipulate server-side variables, and that was sometimes an absolute nightmare to work around.

      If such an obvious vulnerability were present in an ASP interpreter, we'd chuckle together and continue bashing the developers (developers, developers!) at Microsoft. I'll admit that it's often very funny to do so, but I'm ultimately afraid that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones -- even if our glass house is reinforced. ;-)

      --
      Do you like German cars?
    6. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by linguae · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Microsoft, because it is their OS, has a moral responsibility to prevent internet worms and viruses by releasing patches to all users, regardless of the legality of the installation.

      Microsoft has the right to refuse patches of their operating system to users who have illegally obtained the software. Why should Microsoft, or any other corporation, use its money and waste its time providing patches and other OS updates to people who have illegally obtained the OS? OS patches are a privilege, not a right.

      Don't get me wrong; I do not support MS's annoying activation and registration policies. However, why should people who have pirated Windows be able to expect support from Microsoft at all? And Microsoft can't do anything about Internet worms and viruses at all. Even though Windows isn't very secure (and its long overdue for a complete rewrite), Microsoft has no control over what other software people make. Windows, or any other operating system, can't prevent worms and viruses. Only users can prevent worms and viruses. In order to avoid Internet nasties, you either need to use a more secure operating system, a less popular operating system, or stick with Windows and become educated about viruses/worms/malware/etc.

    7. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by slavemowgli · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, Windows NT at least *was* certified, even though there were controversies surrounding the whole issue: see this article, for example.

      Kind of scary when you think about it.

      --
      quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
    8. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Can MS really be held at fault when illegal usage of the OS results in a huge failure of the Internet?"

      Why not spread some of the blame to the hackers, crackers, and script kiddies?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    9. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by timbo234 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'd probably be quite surprised at the number of legal copies of Windows that are in use

      You'd be quite surprised at the number of illegal copies too. Everybody I know who didn't get WinXP with a new PC has simply pirated it, most people just don't talk about it or post about it on message boards. I fear the day when all these machines (including, I'll admit, the non-Linux machines in my house) can't get security updates. There will be vast numbers of spam-bots, virus spreaders and DDoS zombies, even more so than now.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    10. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ---Why should Microsoft, or any other corporation, use its money and waste its time providing patches and other OS updates to people who have illegally obtained the OS? OS patches are a privilege, not a right.

      They had better consider it a "privilege" that I pay for any product that they make. After all, the 2 computers that I bought pre-done had licenses that I COULD NOT REVOKE and get my money back. And there's something I heard about bundling being illegal... and something about being a convicted monopolist illegally playing the system.

      To me, its just a Wintendo, good for games, and not much else. I have a nice hardened Ubuntu desktop in which I do work in. The Windows box is good for stuff like NWN, console emulators, and Mechwarrior games. Thats it.

      --
    11. Re:You'd think this would be obvious by Urthen+Rampage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As you say, people who use cracked versions of windows usually know what they are doing. As such, they (should be) using good antivirus and firewalls. The real problem is Joe Shmoe AOL user who just discovered the intarweb on his new comptar and has no idea what a virus really is, let alone a botnet, but wants to go surf the web despite their being depressingly unprotected. I wrote in another article in another website: It is everyone's responsibility to use the internet correctly just like handling a gun. It can be a potent tool, hobby, and yes even a weapon, but use it without proper knowledge and your going to shoot yourself or worse, someone else, by accident. A point was brought up that someone didnt want to have to bother with getting better firewalls and antivirus, they arent "computer people". This is the type of attitude that lets the hackers' botnets bulge with fresh zombies.

  6. 1992 called ... by w98 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... they want their copy protection scheme back.

    1. Re:1992 called ... by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 4, Informative


      I'm not sure if the year 1992 has any significance. But in the early age of consumer computing, software used to be built with schemes to make it "impossible" to copy/install/use the software without validating that you had purchased the product.

      Usually, this was done by being forced to physically lookup a phrase in the physical documentation and then feed it back to program before it would start/continue work.

      This was annoying as hell, particularly to the paying customers. "crackers" would usually located the protection routine in the binary code, and patch it to skip the check. The practice was discontinued because the "protection" scheme would not protect non-purchased use of its product, (the savvier users would merely apply the publicised crack) and would reduce its marketshare by annoying its purchasing customers. Ultimately, software companies just factored piracy rates into its pricing structure.

      The post was meant to be humorous, but you may have started using computers after the practice stopped, and thus your question.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  7. Funny that you asked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  8. MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Genuine Advantage is a pain in the arse for both registered and unregistered users. If reinstalling windows was a nightmare, imagine now with having to actually activate your windows. And now for updates? Come on!

    Somebody has to put an end to this.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by superpeach · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had to activate windows over the phone the other day, because installing SP2 on it broke everything (well, it just didn't like the SIGNED graphics card driver).

      It kept hanging while it was starting up so I took all the expansion cards out, including the graphics card and used the onboard. Worked fine, apart from popping up a message saying the hardware had changed dramatically and windows needed to be reactivated. Didn't have time to play with it so I left it a few days. Next time I turned it on I couldn't do anything unleses I activated windows. Ok, I will just activate it over the internet - or I would if it was configured for the network it was connected to. Cancel activation so I can set up the network, nope, can't change network settings unleses I activate windows (even in safe mode). So, do I configure a DHCP server on another machine, or use the activate by phone option? It was a free call, but if I knew how long it was going to take for the auto responder to read out really really long numbers for me to type then I would have just set up a DHCP server.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by yotto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Genuine Advantage (What kind of name is that? What does it mean? It's not to my advantage to have to prove I paid for Windows every time I need to reinstall) and the like is one of the main reasons I switched to linux for everything but Grand Theft Auto. I refuse to pay ~$100 and then be treated like a theif. I will never pay for windows, in any capacity, again. If that forces me to build my own comptuer every time I upgrade, so be it.
      Luckily, these days linux is pretty nice, what with Ubuntu and all. You barely need to think any more when installing, and no annoying registration screens!

    3. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Genuine Advantage is a pain in the arse for both registered and unregistered users

      Not really. For most users it is fire-and-forget, same as activation.

    4. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Genuine Advantage is a pain in the arse for both registered and unregistered users. . . . Somebody has to put an end to this.

      Someone has. Tens of thousands of people have. I have. I only run Open Source (and preferably Free) software. It's not 1999 anymore, it is really quite a practical solution now. Come on in, the water's fine.

      As an aside, my company is getting audited by WebLogic (hence the anonymous coward). We're in full compliance, as far as we know, but it's still costing us a small truckload of money just to do the audit. And we give WebLogic hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. If that's the kind of friendly customer service you get from proprietary software, I want no part of it.

      To make matters even more amusing, we started getting heavily into JBoss about two years ago, and it has been an entirely viable replacement - better in some places, worse in others. I would be hard pressed to call one the overall superior product. Frankly, they both do a damned fine job.

      I think Linus's comments on the commoditization of software are right on the nose. Add in the regular "beatings until customer satisfaction improves" that you get with proprietary software, and the only hope I see for mass market proprietary software is software patents. Which leads, of course, to its own thought: If the only means by which big software can survive is abuse of the patent system, how long do you think it will be until it starts happening on a wholesale basis?

    5. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If people didn't pirate software, then software manufacturers wouldn't have to do this.

      People wouldn't pirate software if it was reasonably priced. $300 for WindowsXP Pro!? $400 for Office2003 Pro!? Are you kidding me? Maybe all this authentication crap will finally drive people to alternatives like Linux and OpenOffice, but I doubt it. Open Source just doesn't have the marketing power that Microsoft does.

      --
      Time makes more converts than reason
    6. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by thrift24 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The worst has to be for setting up Microsoft Learning classes that use Virtual PC. You recieve about 2-10 virtual machine images that you have to activate by phone for every class(internet activation doesn't work).

      Now imagine the fun that comes Friday after class to try to activate 3 classes worth of these by Monday morning when microsofts activation line is down half the weekend. *joy*

      Don't you love Regina? That's what we call the Microsoft activation recording, she's screams numbers out like it's a punishment she's giving you. "5! 1! 2! 7! 5! *pleasant voice* would you like me to repeat that..."

    7. Re:MOD PARENT INSIGHTFUL by mustangsal66 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What, are you nuts??

      Oh you actually paid for your MS software....

      --
      Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
      Sig changed for readability by G.W.
  9. This was done about two months ago... by __aaahtg7394 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was discovered by multiple people months ago, as evidenced by this full-disclosure thread, with a followup by another discoverer of the same exploit.

  10. Oh no... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    DVD Jon has been out-sourced to India!

  11. Would hackers support MS? by Bifurcati · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I wonder - if Microsoft were to post hacking requests/challenges/whatever of security measures like this before they were released commercially, and actually invite people to hack it, would hackers respond?

    I mean, I'm fairly certain they would try and hack it (it's there, after all...) but would they, in general, give the info to MS, or would they (out of altruism for future consumers, or just out of spite) keep their hacks to themselves so that they could be used effectively against the product.

    It just seems that these things are always cracked relatively quickly - couldn't microsoft somehow incorporate this into their pre-release coding cycle? I guess, though, they don't want to release their programs before they, er, release them.

  12. legit user by Demoknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ive used the program and put the little token into their site and it still wouldnt let me download something (cant remember what it was right now) so even with this crack or if youre legit you might still be out of luck :D

  13. Not a true crack by andycal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the doc linked to:
    >6. After downloading "GenuineCheck.exe", run it on the machine running a genuine copy of Windows XP.
    > It will generate a code which is used for WGA validation. Copy the code and use the same code to
    >validate a pirated copy of Windows XP and bypass the WGA.

    But that's bogus, you still need "access" to a authentic copy to perform this hack. It's not really a hack at all.

    But sadly this will only make it easier for people unwilling to pay for windows to continue to use it. It would be better if they had to find a cheeper (legal) solution.

    1. Re:Not a true crack by RonnyJ · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But that's bogus, you still need "access" to a authentic copy to perform this hack. It's not really a hack at all.

      Agreed. Microsoft could either restrict WGA downloads to only those using IE with ActiveX, or provide an alternative way for browsers to get past WGA. They did, and the simple/most user-friendly way is to get the user to download a program which will generate a key.

      There's no way that Microsoft could know that you were running the program on a different machine. It's an inherent weakness of the system, but one Microsoft needed to make to allow non-IE/ActiveX browsers to work with WGA.

    2. Re:Not a true crack by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful


      But that's bogus, you still need "access" to a authentic copy to perform this hack. It's not really a hack at all.

      Agreed...I'd be much more impressed with a cracked Windows install that bypassed this GenuineAdvantage crap entirely, or a crack for the algorithm that generates this key code in the first place.

      Being tied to an authentic copy of XP leaves you vulnerable to blacklisting, and when that happens, the 'genuine' Windows product is in the shit as well.

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    3. Re:Not a true crack by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But that's bogus, you still need "access" to a authentic copy to perform this hack. It's not really a hack at all.

      Hmmm ... really? From wiki
      # Hack is a slang term in technology culture which has a number of meanings depending on context, including a joke, a programming exploit, or a commercial software break-in.

      I'd say an exploit is well-accepted as a hack. In is in. You do get bonus points for pretty, but it isn't mandatory.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  14. hurts the anti OSS argument, or should by capicu · · Score: 2, Funny

    This sort of thing should be fatal for the argument that "if anyone can see the source, anyone can find exploits", but for now at least, Microsoft has the stronger orbital mind-control ray.

  15. impenetrable? by dioscaido · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where does that "impenetrable" quote come from? MS has pretty openly stated that they know that protection mechanisms like Activation can, and will, be cracked. They have been pretty clear that these mechanisms are in place more for the hobbyist or mom-and-pop user, than the people that would actively seek out cracks/pirate software.

  16. What's the point? by mpontes · · Score: 4, Informative
    I downloaded this out of curiosity, the only thing it contains is a DOC file with instructions.

    Anyway, what's the point of doing this? You can still download things from Microsoft's site if you don't validate. You just have to pick the "Don't validate" option. Oooh, great, some guy made it so you don't have to click the annoying "No, thanks" button every time you want to download Microsoft Anti-Spyware!

    The *real* challenge is to crack the activation algorithm. (which I belive that has some form of the RSA algorithm in it). People, WGA != activation. Activation is the one that's a bitch. If you happen to mess with your hardware in your Windows box a lot, you'll know what I mean. And since I can never use the Internet activation because I "Already used that code too many times" (Swapping IDE hard drives once in a while for backups with Windows is out of the question now?), I end up having to call Miss Microsoft Robot all the time, who always tells me it's very important to use Windows Update to protect my computer from viruses before she gives me my activation code.

    --
    Bored? Browse Slashdot with a +6 modifier for Troll comme
    1. Re:What's the point? by avdp · · Score: 4, Informative

      The "No, thanks" option is supposed to go away at some point in the near future. Also Windows Update will not run without WGA in the near future as well.

    2. Re:What's the point? by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Activation is the one that's a bitch. If you happen to mess with your hardware in your Windows box a lot, you'll know what I mean. And since I can never use the Internet activation because I "Already used that code too many times"

      Yeah, that's why it is a good idea to have a copy of the corporate install laying around. Even if you're legally licensed to use XP, that activation scheme is problematic. Solution? Install from corp edition CD that doesn't require activation. Probably a technical violation of some obscure license term, but I don't care.

      I paid my money, I refuse to be inconvenienced.
      --
      Who did what now?
    3. Re:What's the point? by mpontes · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong. It was the WGA that was cracked, not the activation scheme. The program doesn't generate you a valid serial, it only generates you a valid WGA serial, which is still pretty useless. If you're running an illegal version of Windows, your serial will still be the same blacklisted one.

      --
      Bored? Browse Slashdot with a +6 modifier for Troll comme
  17. Fortifications by jd · · Score: 3, Interesting
    There is a castle, located in the Middle East, that was so well designed that it was virtually impossible for an attacker to break in by force.


    Today, it would be possible to build a damn-near invincible fortress - use granite blocks of a similar size as those for the large stones in Stonehenge as bricks, have them interlock so that shockwaves can be carried non-destructively, and build it as a gigantic geodesic dome so that impacts are tangental and not perpendicular.


    This isn't "fool-proof" (fools are way too ingenious) but it would offer a formidable target that would be hard to punch through.


    Can you create something analogous in software, where the design is such that the "impact" of an attack is less likely to break through?


    Yes. The standard network "firewall" is just an electronic castle, permitting traffic only through controlled gates. A portcullis arrangement (two back-to-back firewalls with a NIDS system in the middle) would provide a stronger fortification, if historic warfare is any guide.


    The dome arrangement, where impacts are distributed so that no one component ever takes the brunt of the sttack, would be analogous to using a highly distributed security model, where different components in the model have to validate for the communication to be accepted. That way, exploits in any one component are of no value, unless absolutely identical flaws exist in ALL the components.


    Ok, so we've got a system that offers some semblance of security. Can it still do anything, without that security being compromised? After all, anyone can make a 100% secure computer by turning it off.


    Depends on how secure you want something. Let's take the key validation that Microsoft wants. What you want is non-duplicatable information. Easy enough - print a 1024-bit "public key" on the packet, which matches a private key on the validating server. Use the key to generate a unique ID, which is copied onto the computer. Any subsequent communication has to match the unique ID and the public key.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Fortifications by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Funny
      Roger Cheswick has made a career for decades in explaining the problems with the castle-wall theory of computer defense. apparently he did so in vain, for there's always some clothpate who doesn't get the word.

      There's only one word in that sentence that I don't get, and it sure as hell doesn't involve security. Congratulations, you have invented a word that even Google cannot find.

      clothpate
      cloth: rag
      pate: head
      Putting them together is an exercise left for the reader.
    2. Re:Fortifications by TimeSprout's+Mom · · Score: 2, Informative

      I believe he meant 'clodpate'. It's in Websters.

      --


      My son, my son.
  18. Asymmetrical motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Both generals were talking about some kind of conventional warfare. Microsoft vs the hackers isn't conventional warfare. It is a lot closer to guerilla warfare. Against guerillas, a fortress is good protection. Of course, as Mao pointed out, the guerillas may be able to let their enemy rot in their fortified cities. That may be closer to what's happening here. Microsoft may be like the conventional army which alienates the population. When that happens, the war is as good as lost.

    Like the IRA said to Margaret Thatcher: "You have to be lucky always, we only have to be lucky once." Microsoft is in the same situation. The battle is ultimately for the hearts and minds of computer users everywhere. If Microsoft makes a pain of itself in its attempts to defend its territory, their customers will eventually defect to the other side.

    btw: Things have changed in Northern Ireland. The population is becoming VERY disenchanted with the IRA. Many Catholics now hate them more than they hate the Brits and regard them as little better than organized criminals. Similarly, with many years of hard work, Microsoft could regain its good name (but I'm not holding my breath).

  19. Full-disclosure link by Karamchand · · Score: 4, Interesting
  20. Windows Genuine Advantage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The entire purpose of Windows Genuine Advantage of Microsoft is to allow people to know they have actually recieved a Genuine product and not some product that has a key generated for it. If a person gets the product and installs it and then it fails the Windows Genuine Advantage they know they have paid for a pirated version and can then report that to the authorities. Your average home user is not going to install the OS and then run the crack, they want to know that they have a Genuine version (i.e. a genuine licence) that they have paid for. I know if I purchased another OS for the full price i.e. Mac OSX, I would be pissed if it was just a pirated version.

    1. Re:Windows Genuine Advantage by kebes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right.. and isn't that the problem? It seems like this vulnerability could be coded into a distribution. Someone illegally distributing Windows CDs can modify the copy so that it (unknown to the user) runs the crack, gets seemingly-legit codes, and uses these to "prove" that it is a genuine copy to the silly purchaser of the illegal product. So basically this undermines the whole point of the Windows Genuine Advantage. The user buys a CD of Windows, and even the windows website agrees that it is a genuine copy... but in fact the user was duped and bought a pirated copy. This lets the "bad guys" make money off of consumers... moreover it means that the "Windows Genuine" seal means nothing... worse, it provides people with a false sense of authentication.

      (or maybe there's something I don't understand about the whole process?)

  21. this crack will become obsolete again too... by kesuki · · Score: 2, Informative

    it's a cat and mouse game, and frankly the hackers crack the encryption for the challenge of doing it, because frankly not everyone should have to pay the highway robbery price of windows... even bill gates can be quoted as saying 'software should be free' from back in the day when geeks traded puch tapes of code in the back of vans and copied them ;)

    copy protection is worthless, imo, windows would be better off just trying to convince people that piracy is bad, like the mpaa is trying to do with the ads at the front of dvds that can't be skipped... they'd be better off having an advertisment on the windows load screen and/or as the default screen saver than to put tons and tons of protection that will eventually be cracked for the challenge of it ;)

    Piracy is bad, but most of the people who resort to it, are desperate, a few are criminal, but most people aren't that bad. the worst are the crack addicts selling dvds/software on street corners to buy thier next hit... and frankly you don't have to be a crack addict to try that, if you need to have that 10 grand configuration of the dual g-5 2.7gh with 30" apple cinema display, and dual 400 GB hds, and 4 GB of ram... and don't have a job what better way than to sell pirated dvds/software on the street to score the cash without feeling really bad about yourself...

    Note: the rest of this post is rambling, and may be inchoerant, feel free to skip it, i only included it for the people who like reading my comments..

    Windows has a high price point, because they make a lot more money that way, eventually this will change, because really, you're paying for the 'value added' with commercially packaged software.. So really all microsoft is trying to do is protect the value they added to the basic functions of an os, but reguardless, all they need to do is make it hard enough, they don't need to stop everyone... they just need to be able to contain the flow of illegal copies because unlike apple, they're not a hardware company, all they do is write a complex piece of stoftware that is intended to run on virtually every POS baddly designed motherboard and chipset out there... apple, doesn't do that, they just write one for thier own hardware, which makes it a lot easier. but really, pirated copies of windows that are 'reasonably' difficult to get are no worse for windows than linux. If windows becomes too hard for some system builders to pirate, they will just install linux, and explain 'it's less prone to viruses than windows' they will be forced to switch to linux, and linux certified hardware, the better windows copy protection gets, the better it is for linux, frankly. not everyone needs a true gaming rig, and frankly a lot fo the people who have one probabbly are sleeping on a mattress someone threw away in the trash ;) linux has enough interesting games for the casual user, and firefox can be set up so web sites with games can be played too, which is what most casual users think of when they think of online gaming, they think og site like pogo or yahoo! games ;)

    okay i'm rambling sorry, but making the cracks too easy to get just helps windows market share... cracking the encryption to be the guy/gal who did it is fine, but if you want to help the case for linux you simply shouldn't make them easy to get ;) so really you're helping microsoft stay number 1 in install base, while eroding thier bottom line, by pirating windows. frankly right now their bottom line isn't hurting that bad... they're worried about it though, because they know the only thing that microsoft does is add value to the basic principals of writing an OS. if anyone can do this better than them (apple comes to mind, at least for retail prepackaged machines) but they can't touch the white box field, because it cost too much money and headaches to polish a piece of software as complex as windows that will run on almost any configuration of standard PC hardware. linux can only make so many inroads because frankly it's being written by geeks in thier spare time, and a few who work for companies and are told to 'maintain' linux for cred etc...

  22. Easy fix. by PopeAlien · · Score: 4, Funny

    This should be easy for Microsoft to fix. Like all problems the solution lies with legislation.

    Outlaw India - problem solved.

    1. Re:Easy fix. by Ryosen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Outlaw India and they'll just come up with another replacement. Rumor has it that projects are already in the works with names like "Malaysia", "Philippines", and "China".

      --

      Ryosen
      One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".
  23. Siege warfare by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."

    One word... Leningrad... Patton was a great general and one of the few Allied commanders the Germans geuinely respected but he was also an arrogant bastard (and he probably would have enjoyed being called that). Although he unfairly dismissed the value of fortifications he did have a point. The Romans for example preferred to besiege an enemy that was prepared to give battle. The reasoning being that it was cheaper in lives and money to starve him out. In this case one might actually argue that it is Micro$oft who is trying to starve out the pirate consumers by denying them access to updates rather than that Micro$oft is throwing up fortifications to hide behind. So let's not underestimate Micro$oft. Clamping down on OS piracy will certainly play into the hands of Linux and especially OS.X to some degree but alot of people will still cough up the money for one of those so-called "Student and Teacher" versions of XP.

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  24. Exploit?! by holiggan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do you call this an "exploit"? It seems more like a loopwhole to me, something like using a valid cd-key from a genuine wraped up box to install a pirated copy of the same software. I mean, come on! They let you download something that checks for the validity of the installed windows and returns a code, how long would it take for someone to try a valid code on a pirated windows? For what I read, it's goes something like this: there is this building with several diferent apartments: A, B, C, etc... and there is a key in each. But for you to get in, you need to check your key to see if it's valid: "they gave me this key to aparment B, is it valid?" And the system validates your key, then you can get into ANY aparment, because ultimatly the system doesn't check if the key you are using has any conection to the apartment that you are trying to acess: "yes, the key you present is valid, please fell free to try it in any apartment, we don't check to see if its ACTUALLY the key to aparment B, we just check to see if it's a couterfeit" But, hey, maybe this is an exploit afterall, the "hole" is there, but it's in the process, not in the coding or programing itself.

    --
    "A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
  25. Why I hate XP Key Codes by ebooher · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Personally, I don't have a windows computer in my home. I am running several Macs, a Sparc and a Linux machine. The main reason all stems from Microsoft and the way they treat their paying customers like they are stealing something from them.

    A friend of mine bought a Gateway computer a couple of years ago with XP Home on it. After installing and uninstalling several pieces of software the system locked and he couldn't get it to "boot." So being the tech savvy friend in the industry he brings the PC to me.

    The system is asking for a Microsoft Authentication Code. Ok, whatever. Plug into the switch, get online, enter the Key Code, refuses my request for an Auth Code. *grumble* Call the number provided, get a wonderful automated system that doesn't let me speak to a human. Also refuses to give me an Auth Code. *more grumbling* Call Microsoft Support direct (the first number was given to me by XP when the code gen failed) speak to a human who verifies I have a valid Windows Key Code and then refuses to give me an Auth Code.

    Meh?

    She proceeds to inform me that as the code is an OEM code from Gateway that I have to call them. *sighs* Ok, I've been dealing with this a couple hours now, with hold times and all, but what the hey. Call Gateway, the representative though friendly, tells me very politely to go screw myself. Seems the system is now out of warranty period, plus since I'm not the actual owner of the system anyway they can not give me any assistance what so ever. Offers the helpful advice to give Microsoft a call.

    At this point I pull out an education bulk copy of XP Pro I happened to have purchased, and isn't running on anything else and install Pro in place of Home. Good thing about the bulk site keys, there are thousands of users with the same key legally and honestly. Kill the key and lots of very unhappy people.

    My Mac? Drop the CD/DVD in, hold down C, click install, and I'm done. Ahh .... simple. Linux? Same thing, boot the disc, walk through the install dialog, and we're happy. Debian based? apt-get upgrade the entire thing without even a CD. Heck, even Solaris installs and assumes it's legit and doesn't mind. (This was before the whole it's free for you and open now too thing)

    Yeah, Microsoft is only going to end up really annoying the hell out of it's legit users. Crackers and 1337 W@r3z P1r@t35 will never be more than mildly inconvenienced. If they are taking the time now to write programs that will let them keygen against binaries on the CD, then they are already spending the time trying to rip the thing off. The problem with a cat burglar is, no matter how many locks on the safe, if the Hope Diamond is inside, they are going to take the time they need to open it.

    --
    "Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
  26. Got hit by that "feature" today, VERY annoying. by tcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wanted to install DirectX 9.0C on my laptop, and got hit by that. They've asked me to type in my product Key (which was UNDER my dhell laptop, attached to it was my external 80gb firewire drive and my 200GB USB2 drive, thank god it's not using a docking station, this would have required me to turn it off and then write it down then reboot than download, then reboot again...

    for god's sake what are they thinking? don't they get it? lot of people are buying software and use cracked version EXACTLY because of the fact that all legitimate software puts totally INSANE overhead that only irritates clients and in the end penalize them. And beleive me, they lose sales little by little because in the end it's less of a pain in the back to install cracked versions than upgrade with the re-registration, phone confirmation, yadi yada that without mentionning activations problems and all that stuff that people don't want to deal with especially after shelling out hundreds of dollars.

    You want people to stop pirating, EDUCATE them, irritating them will only do the exact opposite. When I was a kid, I had a VIC20 and a C64, EVERYTHING was copied because "stores selling games" what not a commodity like today, plus, at 11, you don't have that much money, and face it, piracy is what made the C64 such a hot seller. But later, I was educated once entering a specific field of interest (3d/video editing) by people on mailing lists and also local pros, and today I'm the one pushing people to buy software and support companies, especially when these companies puts out educational pricing or non-commercial licenses at very decent pricing. Its still easy to get pirated software, but when you are educated, you know what happens in the long run, or you know the potential legal implications it might get you into if positive reinforcement is not your thing :).

    Seriously, I just don't get it... if the goal is a clever way to reduce bandwidth costs on their server and outsource the stuff to pirate sites or torrents sites, well, hats off! but I doubt this would be the case.... man how pathetic can it get...

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
  27. Shatter attack by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Therefore, if you've happened to stumble upon it, I'll take your word for that.

    It doesn't take source code to discover the shatter attack. Any program that has a window open is allowed to remote-control any other program that has a window open on the same machine. In fact, a program running under a limited user can remote-control a program running under administrator (e.g. an antivirus) and escalate privileges that way.

  28. Seems like a bad business model by David+Marra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How many countless people around the globe learned Windows on an illegal copy? You'd think MS would want to distribute Windows to anybody who wanted to use it, learn it, develop on it, etc- I'd be looking at it as a way to increase Windows support- and only be charging corporate users, or those that are making a profit off of Windows capabilities. By limiting its availability to paying customers they are cutting off a huge user base- which will only enhance their competitors position in the market.

  29. "Impenetrable?" Sounds familiar. by cocoamix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Microsoft confirmed the claims of Mohanty, but sought to downplay it saying, "It represents very little threat."

    Brings to mind an image of the captain of the "unsinkable" Titanic warning his passengers that the ship has bumped into a very little ice cube.

  30. Re:Got hit by that "feature" today, VERY annoying. by SysKoll · · Score: 2, Funny
    You want people to stop pirating, EDUCATE them, irritating them will only do the exact opposite.

    I agree, the problem of MS being pirated would be solved through educating customers. But it would be a solution that might leave MS very unhappy.

    Because the sad truth is that educated customers buy Macs or install Linux...

    --

    --
    Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/

  31. Debian Genuine Advantage still uncracked :) by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Funny
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of this. The original purpose, as I understand it, of the "Genuine Advantage" program was to allow users to verify that they had not been ripped off when buying a Winbox, i.e. that they'd actually received a validly licensed copy of Win. Why you would care was never adequately explained, but that's a side issue. But if you do care, then this would seem to be somewhat of an unfortunate development.

    Anyway, I would like to present my own "Debian Genuine Advantage" program that people can use to verify that their Debian-based systems are not pirated:
    #!/bin/sh
    echo "This system is not \"pirated\"."
    Adapting this system for using on other flavors of Linux is left as an exercise for the student. :)
  32. Advantage: MSFT by quarkscat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am waiting for the time when MSFT has all updates and security patches restricted by their WGA initiative. When the next trojan/virus/worm hits the internet that fouls up the Registry, every business worldwide that is chained to MSFT will come to realize that MSFT has become their "silent partner". The Mafia's "protection rackets" of the 1920's and 1930's will look like child's play in comparison to the disruption of business that MSFT will be responsible for. And by the time that realization comes, it will be too late for many businesses -- they will grudgingly pay MSFT whatever is demanded, just in order to stay in business. And Borg Bill will have swept the "World Domination" Monopoly (TM) game.

  33. We HAVE to use windows... by spoco2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... if we want to play any decent number of games... I'm afraid you kind of have to use it, so don't be so high and mighty and say "Well just don't use it", because we have to.

  34. What if I'm running a Software Update Server? by Robber+Baron · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...and my workstation is set to retreive its patches from it, rather than M$'s site?

    Currently it contains 1.6GB of what appears to be every M$ update known to man, (including a bunch of crap that I didn't really want, but hey...hard drives are cheap) and they're all .exe files. ...which leads me to another point: Once the updates are in the wild, they WILL get passed around, and there's nothing M$ can do about it.

    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

  35. Breaking news by Ponzicar · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just heard that Microsoft has announced the creation of a new program, called "Consumer Protection Genuine Advantage Validator". In the near future users will have to have their activeX Genuine Advantage software confirmed to be valid and unpirated before it will let them confirm their windows installation as valid and unpirated.

  36. The real acronym by Daath · · Score: 4, Funny

    WGA is really an acronym for Windows Genuine Annoyance, but Microsoft opted for "Advantage" since it sounded better marketing-wise. :D

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
  37. This story was reported weeks ago by I'm+Don+Giovanni · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Must be a slow news day. This story was reported a month ago on May 23, 2005. At cnet, no less; not exactly an obscure news source.
    http://news.com.com/Bypass+found+for+Windows+pirac y+check/2100-1002_3-5717127.html

    And it was picked up by others, for example:
    http://techrepublic.com.com/2100-1009_11-5717127.h tml

    Why is this story making the rounds again?

    --
    -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
  38. Microsoft's PR by tadauphoenix · · Score: 2, Funny

    Microsoft confirmed the claims of Mohanty, but sought to downplay it saying, "It represents very little threat."

    Microsoft hired Baghdad Bob. I'm sure of it.

  39. I don't understand what the fuss is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sorry but maybe I'm missing the point here... for about 6+ months, there's been a newer key generator floating around the 'net that will generate Windows installation keys which pass the ActiveX WGA check. If WinXP is installed using one of these keys, it will appear genuine anyway. And, there's even a way to change the product key without re-installing the OS. So has this crack really done anything?

    I guess it's more useful as a method for those who don't want/know how to find and download a working keygenerator (since all it requires is a valid copy of the OS and downloading a MS-hosted tool)... but this scheme has been broken a long time ago.

  40. activate once, reuse by steve_l · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you have virtual PC or vmware you dont need to activate more than once.

    I have winXP VMs (domained, undomained), and a win98 vm (historical quirk). Once you get a stable image with msoffice, activate it, snapshot it, and duplicate the VM image. One tip: activate and snapshot before you domain it, as it is a real pain to undomain a win2k-domained image.

    Virtualization defeats activation.

  41. I so agree with you! by amichalo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    lot of people are buying software and use cracked version EXACTLY because of the fact that all legitimate software puts totally INSANE overhead that only irritates clients and in the end penalize them.

    Fifteen years ago, when I was a kid and didn't have any money, I pirated software to have something useful to do with my computer. With the advent of Linux and having a job, I don't steal software any more. (And oddly, I find the software I do buy to be 21st century versions of the same software I used to steal.)

    The one "exception" is the only game I have on my Mac. I bought Civilization III for the Mac because I had loved the previous two's complex strategic systems. But Civ III, to avoid software piracy I suppose, required the CD to always be in the computer. Worse, it would often spin the disc constantly.

    On my laptop, this meant hardware strain on an expensive to replace unit and lower battery life.

    So I downloaded the ISO and just mount it when I want to play. No overhead of spinning discs and low battery life!

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
  42. Re:Why I hate XP Key Codes (nice troll...) by Bri3D · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He ment the activation code, the code that you have to put in if you don't have Internet access and are activating. And some OEM copies are not bound, it depends on the manufacturer. Many computer companies don't take the time to bind XP to their BIOS. Don't think this is true? Take for example the OEM copies you can buy with mobos/HDs/whatever off the internet-not bound to anything, but still have an OEM key and you still have to ACTIVATE. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Nice microsoft fanboy...