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Microsoft Denies Claria got Spyware Exception
daria42 writes "Microsoft has denied its AntiSpyware application has given adware-maker Claria special treatment. The denial has been issued amid reports MS is looking to buy Claria, and is in response to security researchers' reports stating AntiSpyware had downgraded the threat level posed by Claria's adware products. The downgrade in threat level merely represented an effort to be "fair and consistent with how Windows AntiSpyware (Beta) handles similar software from other vendors," according to a statement published by Microsoft." As reader jfengel writes, though, "they neglected to mention what software that might be, nor did they publish the analysis."
There's some really excellent analysis on this by Ed Bott.
Compare and contrast to the lies and misdirection spread (as is normal), by Microsoft's resident spin doctor Robert Scoble. See his Ballmer interview, aka, The Idiots Guide to Brownnosing, to see his true colors.
Lots of Gator-bashing is rightly occurring all over the MSDNosphere, see here for a funny example. Remember, even Microsoft employees (commenting anonymously, of course) hate this idea.
I'm guessing that Microsoft will somehow integrate Claria's obnoxious 'personal marketing' tactics into Internet Explorer 7 or the new RSS functions to get a chunk of the targeted intarweb ad market which Adsense has completely sewn up for normal web pages. We should go and tell them what we think about Claria and Gator, not to mention their general business ethics. Don't let Scoble's lies deceive you, and don't hold back.
I don't know if you guys know this, but Webroot's Spy Sweeper is also delisting obvious spyware. Microsoft is not alone in this! I personally think this is going to become a real problem with most spyware scanners unless laws are brought on to fight spyware more aggressively and some kind of standard list is defined like there is for viruses.
The real issue here is Microsoft abusing their position of trust within the general computer user community. No, I'm not talking about people like us here...I'm talking about Ma and Pa Computer User...the ones who see a virus or spyware warning and panic. Many of these people rely upon the recommendations offered by the spyware detection/removal applications to decide on how best to manage their systems. By artificially upgrading Claria products from 'remove' to 'ignore', Microsoft is taking unfair advantage of these users' trust.
Also from TFA:As far as I'm aware, no other spyware removal application has promoted Claria products in this fashion. Until Microsoft publishes these 'objective criteria', and shows how Claria products managed to get upgraded from 'remove' to 'ignore' under them, we will have no choice but to assume more ulterior motives.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"We firmly believe that people should have complete control over what runs on their computers," Microsoft added."
Well, 10 million compromised windowsboxes seems to contradict that belief.
Underholdning.info
From the bottom of that ZDNet article:
"'We firmly believe that people should have complete control over what runs on their computers,' Microsoft added."
Anyone else find that funny?
Please take off your tin foil hats, guys!
One might say that Microsoft is primarily responsible for the entire spyware issue (although I suspect Firefox's track record would be worse, albeit better than IE, if it were as popular). But MS AntiSpyware is a fine piece of software, however. It's easy to use and does its work better than many of its competitors.
Excpet for the fact that Ad-Aware already had A HUGE problem recently w/ delisting of products, specifically When-U. I know many who no longer use it as the first tool against spyware, merely for thoroughness.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
I have 2modpoints left, and I'm in bad mood. So I wanted to mod insightful a comment like: "microsoft sucks!" but there was no comment like that. What's up with you guys?
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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MS's anti-spyware tool isn't the only one available, it isn't bundled with the OS, it doesn't attempt to prevent the user from installing other anti-spyware tools - in short, it is one option of many and you are free to install others as well or instead of MS's one.
Why is this in YRO? What right is being infringed or threatened? If you don't like MS's anti-spyware tool, don't use it!
It's official. Most of you are morons.
*chuckles*
/. NOone believes it. doesn't matter what it's about.
this is
[evil demonic laugh]MWHAHAHAHA ![/evil demonic laugh]
fair and consistent with how Windows AntiSpyware (Beta) handles similar software from other vendors,"
So, um, what other program has had it's threat level changed?
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
The small print says they may not be actual spyware, but potentially dangerous items, most unknowledgable people will just remove them anyway, because it's the default option.
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
1. Microsoft Buys anti-spyware, 2. Microsoft buys up all spyware company's 3. Microsft delcares the war on spyware is won & emails 7 billion email addresses announcing that the WinXp SP 15 will be "Spyware Free"
PS. M$ sucks.
Does anyone know of any OSS that is dedicated to the removal of ad-ware and spyware. . .
I manage a number of windows machines at the office and wit he recent declassification's without good explanation that has occurred in the sector i have lost all faith in most of the products
An OSS solution would be wonderful (hell i would rather switch the machines to linux , but that is not an option right now due to certain programs that are required by the company)
Commercial solutions always to me seem rather susceptible to legal action for the classification and or bribery.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I prefer to use three products in combination. Microsoft Antispyware on a daily basis, and periodical runs of AdAware and SpyBot S&D seem to do the trick for now.
MS antispyware should rather show the threat level the user represents to the computer by analyzing the number of unused files squirreled on the desktop, viruses & spywares on the system, time spent on configuration panel, number of time a double click is performed when a single click is expected etc.
\u262D = \u5350
MS is going to buy off all businesses that have anything to do with delivering any kind of unwanted software to users' computers. This maybe part of their plan for security on MS platform :)
You can't handle the truth.
So MS denies something they clearly did wrong, what's new?
You, sir, are entirely unfair!
Microsoft clearly said The downgrade in threat level merely represented an effort to be "fair and consistent with how Windows AntiSpyware (Beta) handles similar software from other vendors,"
It's entirely consistent. Microsoft has consistently held their software offerings to, ahem, an improved standard.
I mean, have you ever looked at how Microsoft's C++ compilers, um, pioneered their own standard, entirely different -- and, so long as you don't like correct exception handling, consistent RTTI, or the availability of a Standard library, entirely better -- from the ANSI/ISO standard. Or look at the, um, improvements to JavaScript and the browser DOM.
Or just look at the XML for Word docs. Ok, well absent a non-disclosure agreement you can't actually look at it, but trust Microsoft it's entirely consistently inconsistent with anything else out there.
How anyone can say Microsoft isn't being consistent in its approach I just don't understand at all.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Hmm, I'm sure they wouldn't lie and I shall read the statement as soon my flying pig is back.
It's on a mission, surveying the earth in order to prove that it's flat.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Is that Claria isn't the only malware to get this exception?
This all makes sense when you realize one key, critical piece of information.
First, a quote:
Has Microsoft given in to vendors' threats? Or forgotten how badly "adware" damages the Windows experience (ultimately encouraging users to switch to other platforms)?
Now, the key, critical piece of information.
Microsoft's anti-spy ware devision is headed by a MAC user! You see, MAC zealots have infiltrated the Microsoft hierarchy, and are plotting it's downfall from within.
As a matter of fact, this is a pervasive presence, weaving into all levels of the company.
Think about it. Doesn't Clippy make much more sense as MAC sabotage than as an actual feature? No doubt someone floated a mock up with the note, "Looks just like something I saw at the last MAC expo."
Architecture changes that mean the XBOX II won't be able to run XBOX games, the endless delays in Longhorn, the XP default theme, the differences between XP Home and XP Pro, these are all contributed by MAC users who are gradually whittling away Microsoft from within.
And because Microsoft has been shamelessly copying the MAC for so long, all they have to do is float the rumor that MAC is going to do something, and Microsoft programmers and management throw themselves into trying to replicate it, or at least toss together a half asses rip-off of the feature / technology.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
It is good that the Claria stuff is still being detected, and maybe it is not necessarily bad that the default recommendation has changed, if one were to assume that all similar products were treated in the same way.
However, with some programs having the "ignore" recommendation, and others having "quarantine", it will probably give users the impression that Claria is at least somewhat ok, or something like that, which it is not (at least in my opinion).
Actually, what kind of impression does that give someone who doesn't know any better?
Something is detected by the spyware scanner, but the default recommendation is to leave it there.
"Hey, this one is ok because it only spies me or invades my privacy a little bit."
- Donny was a good bowler, and a good man.
That's actually the principle cause of all their problems. They don't have an adequate trust model for modern computing, being stuck in the single-user era.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
When Spybot Search and Destroy did a much more thorough job on the machines I've worked on cleaning up (I don't generally use Windows, so I don't typically need S-A-D...)- I kinda quit using AdAware altogether. It just doesn't do the job the same way as other solutions.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I'll probably burn some karma here, but I'm a big fan of the MS anti-spyware product.
There are really two issues. The first is the catalogue of what's spyware and what isn't. I don't know if MS's program is good at that, and the stories we're reading are sort of disturbing. I buy all of that.
But the second issue concerns the product's ability to remove nasty stuff on your machine. And their anti-spyware app is very good at that.
It's much better than spybot or ad-aware, in fact -- especially with the stuff that scatters hundreds of files and registry entries around your system and reinstalls itself after you try to clean it with another program.
There's nothing that will prevent you from running another program to clear off the stuff that MS's product doesn't get rid of. So don't let this situation prevent you from running this software to get rid of other stuff. It's good at it, and it's free.
In related news:
Microsoft has made a stunning leap forward in the field of bicycle locomotion technology, developing a system of operation that allows for the appearance of forward progress whilst routinely backpedaling.
:::: the insomniac's digest
Microsoft is only a Marketing Company, I hear that alot, and it makes sense.
When microsoft bought Giant their antispyware program was one of the best. When microsoft re-launched it under Microsoft AntiSpyware (and marketed as a new product), it got raving reviews.
The effects are that people will start to trust MS antispyware, and will be starting to ditch their other antispyware programs. As soon as the majority of the people are used to the program, microsoft can dictate their own terms to what is spyware and what is not. Ofcourse microsoft will never go too far, but the changes will be "subtle", not enough to get angry about and still have solid bunch of supporters defending the program for microsoft.
I think this is going to MS's way of getting "patch management" into the mainstream.
Think about it...delivering A/V and system updates via clickable Ads - brilliant!
Oooohhhh...and so so profitable.
JB
Honestly, how long will this continue?
Before around '98 you needed only 'antivirus' software mainly. Then with the broadband spreading came the 'personal firewall'. In the last few years came Ad-Aware which is 'needed' if you want to get rid of spyware. In the last year and a half i was starting to see reports about needing both Ad-Aware and S&D, and now people are starting to suggest that someone needs 3 independent spyware/adware removal tools to clean up!!! Not to prevent infection, but to clean up!
Seriously folks, when will the madness stop? You can't patch a broken design combined with user unawareness by semi-working cannot be trusted commercial programs!
Personally i stopped using windows around the time XP arrived in 2001. I just had enough. I don't need no antivirus software, firewall software, ad and spyware removal and detection software and to fight an uphill battle trying to contain IE with an alternative browser. It is absolutely ridicoulus what someone needs to put up with.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Amen to that.
..... there wouldn't need to be one, would there? We could just comment out the spyware-ish bits before compiling, and distribute the resulting patchfile. On Gentoo, that would probably be part of the ebuild scripts. OK then, what about Open Source spyware removal for Windows?
Where is the Open Source anti-adware, anti-spyware stuff? I don't see a spyware removal tool for Linux. Oh
But the point is that all the Open Source software available for Windows is there by accident. It wasn't written for Windows, it just was ported to Windows from some unix variant. Nobody writes GPL software with Windows in mind -- it's just that some Windows user manages, with more or less effort, to persuade it to compile, and is obliged by the licence to make the source available. {If anybody persuaded BSD-licenced code to compile under Windows, they probably would keep it closed-source -- and maybe even disable some options in an effort to extort money out of users}.
My computer is my property, and I have the right to determine what software runs on it. Installing software without my explicit consent is at least trespass {which is a civil offence and grounds to sue} and may constitute criminal damage {which is a crime, so dial 999 and let the police deal with it}. These things were already offences long before computer-specific legislation was passed. The use of confusing language to persuade someone to install software may additionally constitute Burglary Artifice. If it's a Crown Court, then the odds are in your favour -- out of a jury of 12 people, how likely do you think it is that none or only one have experienced PC trouble due to spyware?
You know, I often wonder what would life have been like if, way back in early 1976, some members of the Homebrew Computer Club had dragged Bill Gates {the author of that letter} into the gents' and given him a bloody good hiding. That has to be my second choice for an "if I could alter the course of history" fantasy.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Well MS is badly placed for any kind of critics towards other companies. Didn't MS themselves put spyware onto people's computers before they got nailed for it?
This denial just proves once again MS' dishonesty towards customers, may they be corporate or individuals.
Why don't people act upon the fact that MS is just lying so blatantly? Oh sure, their lawyers are good, but lawyers can't do anything against massive boycott!
Action, to the streets dammit! Make piles of MS CDs to melt!
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
Windows AntiSpyware (Beta): Analysis approach and categories
s oftware/isv/analysis.mspx/
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/
This white paper provides an overview of the approach and criteria categories currently used by the Microsoft research team to analyze and classify software.
Interesting comment, which reminded me of a story:
I once worked for a bank, where there was a computer that processed all electronic banking files. The majority of the programs on this computer were written by a guy I worked with. This guy considered himself a programming god, while I thought he was below average.
Now, one of the quite critical programs that ran on this computer was in the habit of crashing occasionally. The guy attributed this to an OS fluke, and instead of debugging the program and resolving the error, he wrote a program that simply checked whether the crashing program was running, and if it wasn't, would restart it.
Without our department knowing, the crashes increased in frequency. We didn't know this, because the crashing program was restarted all the time. Unfortunately, at a certain point in time the crashes occurred about every few seconds, and our system basically went down. I was part of the team that analysed and resolved the problem, and, of course, we found that it was a basic DESIGN flaw in the crashing program. I won't go into details, but basically, with some knowledge of file transfer protocols, this flaw would have been avoided.
Now, why is this story on topic? Because Windows is JUST like this crashing program, Microsoft is JUST like the guy who wrote the crashing program, and AntiSpam/AntiVirus/Firewalls are JUST like the program that restarted the crashing program.
What I expect to find, in the not-too-distant future, is that our Windows systems will simply stop running because the patch programs need all computing resources to keep Windows from going down. And the only way to resolve this, is a redesign. Which should be done by people who know how to design a good system, and not by a marketing company.
I Just installed Ubuntu And got the BSOD,followed by the frowny face mac, followed by a the screen caused by a crashed C64, Ahh such a great screen-saver.
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
Following the link to the original story on the status change leads to this page detailing the list of software that has been downgraded. Screenshots included for the doubtful.
...including certain WhenU adware programs, WebHancer and Ezula Toptext. So the Claria downgrade is quite likely part of a bigger picture regarding Microsoft's listing criteria for adware.
Mods: Do you disagree with me? Go ahead and mod me down. Meta-mods will sort it out. Good luck!
MSC++ exclusive features are only slightly different from the ANSI standard, while GCC ones are so absurdly different that you need to learn a whole new way of thinking
;) looks too much like a function call or an expression to be easily grepped for. A C++ cast (MemPtr* a = reinterpret_cast 0xb800 ;) looks like a cast and nothing else. And it's ugly to boot, to remind you that casting should be done only when absolutely necessary.
You make a good point, and what GCCs does is actually a good thing: something slightly different is like The Crying Game -- hey, she looked like a chick until I'd invested in weeks of dating, and when after all that effort I got into her pants, out popped a pee-pee!
Same with Microsoft extension -- you gets lots of people who don't notice the slight difference -- the Adam's Apple, if you will -- and think that C++ is what Microsoft calls C++. Then they get a real girl, and don't know what to do with her, because they've been dating Microsoft "almost girls" all their lives.
GCC's extensions, on the other hand, are like a big, hairy, honest gay guy buying you a drink in gay bar: you see the bulge in the pants, it's totally different, and hey, if you want to try that lifestyle, it's gay, but, as Seinfeld says, "not that there's anything wrong with that". But it's different enough that you know it's different, and you know if you go back to girls, you'll need an entirely different technique to get anywhere.
No offense to anyone intended by the analogy: the point is that obvious differences are honest -- they don't fool you into thinking you're not using an extension. Slight differences are pernicious, not because they're necessarily bad, but because it makes it hard to recognize when an extension is being used.
A similar concern is why C++'s casting is so ugly compared to C's: a C style cast (MemPtr *a = (MemPtr) 0xb800
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Let me give you a hint.
NO!
So if they're going to make any statement about it at all, this is the one it will be. Anybody having trouble understanding this?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
If they actually went so far as to embed ads into the desktop, that would cement my defection to Linux.
"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber" -- Plato
Okay, I'm not sure if this is a troll, but...
Gator is often installed automatically by other software/websites. The only way to get Opera is to install it yourself, implying that you actually want it.
With Opera, the ads are obviously linked to a piece of software (the browser) and only appear in that software, in a well-defined area. With Gator, ads appear whenever you surf the Web with no immediately obvious link to any piece of software.
I guess I am a rarity of sorts on slashdot. I am a fence rider when it comes to OS software, Browsers, processors, and video cards. What does that mean? That means I use Windows and Linux, even though I only dabble in linux. I use IE, Firefox, and Mozilla. I also run AMD processors, as well as Intel. And of course I use Nvidia and Ati. My point? Simple enough, I know it is wishful thinking but can you folks just get over yourselves and your blind brand/product loyalty and actually try before bashing? Thanks now, end of line.