Slashdot Mirror


Mac OS X Gaining Ground In Corporate Environs

nonsuchworks writes "MacWorld quotes a Jupiter Research report on the increasing penetration of Mac OS X in the business world. From the article: 'The report found that in businesses with 250 employees or more, 17 percent of the employees were running Mac OS X on their desktop computer at work. In Businesses that had 10,000 or more employees, 21 percent of employees used Mac OS X on their desktop work computer.' Analyst Joe Wilcox adds, 'Companies that were considering Linux are now buying Mac OS X instead.'"

93 of 585 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by davecrusoe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wow, first comment! If MacOSX overtakes Linux, well, at least a platform that adopts some open standards will overtake Windows eventually. It's better than Windows/MS dominating the market place, and might force innovation. In the end, innovation benefits the end user....

    1. Re:Great! by Egorn · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I gotta say, since I bought my Mac with OS X, I'm much more comfortable in Linux/Shell enviroments. I'd be more likely to run Linux now than ever.

      --

      Movie News - "Entertainment news, bitch!"
    2. Re:Great! by RUFFyamahaRYDER · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are exactly right.... so for all you out there who hate Apple you should think about this: If Mac's gain more market, Microsoft has to work harder FOR YOU to make a better operating system than it had before. Competition is a wonderful thing.

    3. Re:Great! by ericdano · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So wait. You think of OS X has a stepping stone to Linux?

      Why go any further? OS X has just about everything you'd want. Plus it runs Office. Woohoo!

      Seriously, I think OS X is way less daunting than Linux.

      --
      It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
      I moderate therefore I rule!
      --
    4. Re:Great! by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe because every user doesn't want to fight with 8 configuration files dealing with graphics, two to get a network card running, and be responsible for ensuring every piece of hardware works correctly right after being installed.

      Face it, Linux is difficult. It's getting better, but OS X is already where Linux needs to be (though artificially; you control the hardware, you control the software). And it's worth it to us to pay the premium to get a machine that works.

      Oh, and the eye candy's definitely better ;).

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    5. Re:Great! by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Most OS X users probably don't even know they're running a flavor of Linux"

      I think that would be news to everyone, including the OS X developers.

    6. Re:Great! by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Depends. Now that I've used both, I've got to say they both have their place.

      OS X is for desktops, Linux is for servers. It's that simple. Those who want Linux as a desktop could have it, but that's the overall picture as I see it.

      I also must say I'm a bit worried about OS X for servers after that report that showed such terrible performance for MySQL (was it at Anadtech?). But then again, I would either run a server headless (why use OS X) or if you are small enough that you need a box to do double duty, then you probably wouldn't be pushing the box hard enough for the performance to matter to you.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    7. Re:Great! by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not only is competition a wonderful thing, but I'd much rather Apple lead the way in "*nix becomes a common common on the desktop, and is therefore a target for malware, botnet attacks, and viruses". Why? Because they have the funds and marketing ability to pull through it, much like MS has done while their security has been under attack from all sides.

      Linux can learn from Apple's mistakes in the "major desktop player" arena, and continue to get better, without having to be on the front lines. It will make life a little easier, and a lot less expensive for all the small-userbase distros. It's been a long time since there was a sizable non-MS distro common on the desktop, and I bet we'll be in for a lot of surprises in the near future.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    8. Re:Great! by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It helps you feel more comfortable because you start out with something that is completely working, and you aren't always doing system administration using it. First, it's good because you aren't depending on your shell skills to run the system. It's a comfortable way to experiment because, if something isn't working or you can't figure it out, you can always go back to the GUI. Second, it's good because system administration doesn't have to be done in the shell. I run Gentoo, and I've b0rked my system a couple times by doing something dumb like downgrading glibc. On Mac OS X, that's not really a problem because administration tasks like software updates are done in the GUI. In other words, using a shell is not essential to administrating the system. What Mac OS X provides you with is a fully-functional GUI layered on top of a Unix core that you can directly access at your own leisure. It lets you tinker without asking anything in return.

    9. Re:Great! by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It runs MS Office (and NeoOffice) and has that great "it just works" thing going for it.

      Well, it "just works" until you have to try to set up a networked office printer, connect to a shared drive on a PC (or even another Mac), set up email to work with an Exchange server or mount a firewire drive with a file system other than the one your current version of the Mac OS expects. Then it basically doesn't work at all unless you know what you are doing. These sorts of things are for all intents and purposes automatic on a Windows machine - the most you'd ever need to know is your password. (btw, the above examples are all problems both I and others at my office have had with our Mac machines - including people who have never used anything but Macs for their entire lives.)

      I run both a Windows and a Mac machine at work, sitting side by side. I alternate between them depending on the task, mainly because I've got a 30" widescreen LCD for the Mac, so obviously it's a lot better for things that require having a bunch of windows open at once.

      But I don't consider the Mac any easier to use in most situations. It has a learning curve like anything else, and there are a lot of things that are just a lot harder than they should be (and a lot harder than the same tasks are on Windows machines). Of course, the reverse is also true on other tasks - installing software is much easier on a Mac, for example; so easy that the first time I had to do it, I didn't understand that after dragging the installer to my applications folder, I was done. I kept looking for the "install" button. But overall I don't think one has an inherent advantage over the other in usability.

      I also run Linux at home. The Mac OS is definitely easier to use than Linux but in some ways (such as setting up a firewall, networking and file sharing) it is similarly difficult compared to Windows. But, there's never been a situation where I've needed to use the command shell under OS X, whereas I still need to do it all the time under Linux (SUSE 9.2).

    10. Re:Great! by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2

      I was kind of hoping the mods would have gotten the joke, too. Whoever applied the "troll" moderation, please hand in your geek credentials!

    11. Re:Great! by IAmTheDave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Funny, because I haven't had any of these problems. Connecting to a Windows share was flawlessly easy, our HP color laser jet works great (networked,) email works perfectly with Entourage, and "other file systems" - well, I haven't tried that yet.

      Although, since all our machines are new, all have Tiger, so perhaps these issues are patently easier in Tiger than previous releases?

      Nonetheless, OS X does indeed have a learning curve. Most people have found it to take mere days to get comfortable with the machine, its software, and its functions. Although, we all do have Logitech mice.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    12. Re:Great! by fbg111 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most OS X users probably don't even know they're running a flavor of Linux, but they can slowly get more involved with that world while as they feel comfortable.

      Since no one explicitly why OS X is not Linux: OS X is based on the Mach Microkernel and FreeBSD (a BSD Unix variant, not Linux (see section "What is Linux?").

      --
      Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
    13. Re:Great! by cmacb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You lost me there. How is it any different than if Dell, HP or IBM provided a turnkey Linux box? There is no technical obstacle to this. It is more of a chicken and egg problem. Big names will provide turnkey Linux boxes once Linux gets more popular (which would happen quickly if big names provided turnkey Linux boxes).

      And by provided, I of course mean provided with continuing support.

      The other chicken and egg problem of course is convincing people that standard interfaces (HTML, RTF, even DOC formats) are stable enough that you don't really need Microsoft products to work with them.

      It is essential to Microsoft that they disrupt this thinking before it gets too far. Dot-Net and other changes in the next versions of Windows and Office will certainly be aimed at breaking as many non-Microsoft things as possible.

      As far as eye candy, I miss my Crystal icon set when I'm using my Powerbook. I've gotten used to the menu bar at the top of the screen but there are situations where it is counterproductive. While in Linux I can choose to have that title bar at top or not, OS X doesn't give me a choice. Apple has made the GUI more "user friendly" by eliminating the clutter of options available to the Windows or Linux (speaking particularly of KDE here) user.

      But that brings me to my main point which is that Linux (or Open Source in general) arrives eventually at better design decisions than are likely to be made by any proprietary product. In Linux the GUI is clearly sitting on top of a generic windowing program which clearly sits on top of a general purpose multitasking OS. The Vendors, in their infinite wisdom go too far to blur these relationships while using Open Source I can choose between Linux/BSD X11/Xorg KDE/Gnome/... and in the latter two cases I can switch quite quickly between combinations of those things.

      If the average user could have a fully configured Linux system that "just worked" placed in front of them I think they would forget Windows and OS X rather quickly. But Apple with its IEverything and Microsoft with , well, with whatever they finally come up with will continue to provide an artificially moving target as long as they can get away with it. They will have Jobs continue to do his song and dance and hire people like Scoble to oooh and ahh over some "cool" new button every 30 seconds. As long as these techniques continue to work on the "average" user the companies will continue to overcharge users so they can afford to convince users that they need to be overcharged. Like I said, chicken and egg.

      It will take a growing number of non-conformists, or some other disruptive force (like the Chinese economy) to break this cycle. I have high hope that it will happen, but not next week.

    14. Re:Great! by greed · · Score: 2, Insightful
      ... mount a firewire drive with a file system other than the one your current version of the Mac OS expects.

      Uhmmm.

      OK, Mac OS X is quite happy with FAT16, FAT32, HFS and HFS+, and maybe that UFS thing I've never used but can choose in the formatter.

      I've never tried NTFS on it; but trying to work NTFS on non-NT-based systems is awkward at best--though it is definately better in the newer Linuxes.

      So what filesystem do you have on an external FireWire drive that Windows is perfectly happy to mount, but Mac OS X won't touch?

      And can you explain why I can take the internal IDE drive out of a Mac, plop it in a FireWire box, and use it on any other Mac I want... but if I take the internal IDE drive out of an Intel PC (Linux or Windows), plop it in a FireWire or USB box, the very same system does not recognize the partition table?

      Let's face it, we're still pretty much stuck with FAT32 for cross-platform filesystem interoperation, even if you aren't using Windows. And every camera is using it, or at least FAT16, for the flash cards--it may suck, but it's a known system, and everything can deal with it.

    15. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right...

      That's why those built-in Dell wireless network cards work so well. Or maybe those great Linksys ones so many people already have that "just work" with Windows.

      Oh wait, they don't. Sure, it's Broadcoms fault, but that doesn't make it work. The point is there is always an excuse and nothing ever works right the first time or stays working.

      A *lot* of stuff doesn't work, looks crappy (love those Linux fonts -- what? steal the MS ones?), use different widget sets (how come firefox doesn't match the theme I just installed. Oh wait, neither do any of the gnome apps!), and on and on.

      I love Linux for servers, but if you can't admit Mac OS X "just works", you aren't being honest. If price is a factor, then its a factor, but don't BS everyone about it being a PITA.

      As for those interested in Mac OS X, look into the "Missing Manual, Tiger Edition" book. It has a lot of useful information you might not figure out on your own.

      And before you say "don't use it then", already been there done that. I use Linux for servers and am moving to Mac OS X for the desktops.

    16. Re:Great! by javaxman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So wait. You think of OS X has a stepping stone to Linux?
      Why go any further? OS X has just about everything you'd want. Plus it runs Office. Woohoo!
      Seriously, I think OS X is way less daunting than Linux.

      That last bit about OS X being less daunting is a bit of an understatement.

      There is one single reason why I'd still run Linux, though. I still have a PC at home that I haven't decided yet to get rid of. I never use it, because I have a iMac, but... hmmm... maybe I'll throw Linux on it and tinker. But it's just that- a hobby kind of thing, thus not something a non-programmer type is going to do. Me, though, I'll do it. When I get some spare time...

      I guess I just backed up your argument pretty well there, didn't I ? I originally though "hey, he's wrong, *I* will still use Linux"... sigh...

    17. Re:Great! by ericdano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um..because it costs a few hundred dollars more and runs better. It's easier to maintain. You don't need to know how to recompile the Kernel, or even use a script if you don't want it. It just works.

      --
      It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
      I moderate therefore I rule!
      --
    18. Re:Great! by dloose · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If the average user could have a fully configured Linux system that "just worked" placed in front of them I think they would forget Windows and OS X rather quickly." I think you may be a bit out of touch with the "average user". If a Linux system "just worked" then yeah, maybe they'd choose it over OS X or Windows. But Linux is never going to "just work" that way. The mere existence of multiple windowing systems means that applications will be targeted at one of them. Sure, if the average user decides he likes Gnome best, he can still use KDE applications, but the little inconsitencies in the interface will start to wear on him. Why is that? Because the inconsistencies lead to things not "just working". Users don't want to have to know 3 different ways to paste something based on what toolkit the app is based on. They just want to go to Edit -> Paste (the more savvy ones may know Control+V) and have it work. I'm not saying choice is a bad thing. It's a great thing when you know what you're doing. When you don't know what you're doing, you want the simplest thing that will get the job done. Linux still needs a lot of work to be that thing.

    19. Re:Great! by jusdisgi · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's why those built-in Dell wireless network cards work so well. Or maybe those great Linksys ones so many people already have that "just work" with Windows.

      That's why that sangoma DS3 card works so well in Windows. Or maybe those Alpha motherboards that "just work" with Linux.

      Seriously, quit your bitching. OS's don't support the same hardware as each other. That's that. I can name hardware that won't work with any OS you can name. And if you want to run it by the numbers, Linux 2.6 runs on way more hardware than any version ever of either OSX or Windows.

      A *lot* of stuff doesn't work, looks crappy (love those Linux fonts -- what? steal the MS ones?)

      There are plenty of perfectly fine fonts available for Linux these days that aren't from MS. This problem hasn't been around for years. You're just making shit up.

      how come firefox doesn't match the theme I just installed. Oh wait, neither do any of the gnome apps!

      How come Firefox doesn't match the theme I just installed on Windows? Oh wait, neither does quicktime, EasyCDCreator, Realplayer, WinDVD, and on and on.

      I love Linux for servers, but if you can't admit Mac OS X "just works", you aren't being honest. If price is a factor, then its a factor, but don't BS everyone about it being a PITA.

      I'm far, far more comfortable in either KDE or Gnome than I'm likely to ever be dealing with a flakey 1-button mouse and a dock that won't stay the same size or keep frequently used icons in the same spot. And I'm a lot more comfortable doing a lot of tasks from the CLI than from any desktop. And I'm sure as hell not happy with all the parts of the filesystem that OSX hides and the UNIX commands that I'm locked out of and all the other eccentricities of the system. And I could do without the damned genie crap and the other icandy too. Now you can like OSX all you want, but don't tell me I can't call it a pain in my ass. That's for my ass to tell me.

      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
    20. Re:Great! by nathanh · · Score: 2, Funny
      You are exactly right.... so for all you out there who hate Apple you should think about this:

      Where does this Apple Martyr Syndrome come from? I don't think many people hate Apple. I think most of us recognise that they're a nifty company that launched the PC industry with the Apple II. They make some decent products and 25+ years of continued success is proof that they're doing something right.

      Now Apple users, damn I hate you guys. You lot can all go to hell.

    21. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What do you want to run on Windows that isn't available for OS X?

      Google Earth...

      pretty much any new game...

      Those are the two I thought of off the top of my head....

    22. Re:Great! by HairyCanary · · Score: 2, Informative
      Are you one of the folks that criticizes things you haven't even tried?

      I just connected to a Windows server with my Mac a couple days ago (over a VPN even). And let me tell you, it was easier than doing it under Windows. And it goes without saying that it was orders of magnitude easier than under Linux.

      And to use another example -- the firewall was trivial to setup. I want SSH, I check SSH. Does it get much easier than that? Certainly not under Windows.

      It took me a long time to get up the nerve to give Macs a try -- I've been a long time bigot, turned against Apple since the days of the original Macintosh. Now that I have my Mac Mini, I've got to hand it to Apple -- Mac OS X is several times better in every respect than Windows, and an order of magnitude better (as a desktop OS) than Linux. The truth hurts, but that is it. I'm still a big fan of Linux, even on the desktop, and I'm seriously hoping it does some catching up -- because I can't ever go back to Windows, if for any reason Apple should go away.

    23. Re:Great! by soft_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe because you can get use out of a Macintosh without any Unix knowledge and then learn Unixy things at your own pace.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    24. Re:Great! by swimmar132 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're in the terminal, OS X doesn't hide directories. sudo will give you access to every unix command. You can turn off the genie minimize crap. You can use pretty much any mouse you want with OS X. You can configure the dock to your liking. And you can use the CLI for pretty much any task.

    25. Re:Great! by Ogerman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you may be a bit out of touch with the "average user". If a Linux system "just worked" then yeah, maybe they'd choose it over OS X or Windows. But Linux is never going to "just work" that way.

      I think you are a bit out of touch with the fact that nearly all users simply use what is provided to them -- whether by Dell/HP/etc., Apple, or their employer. The notion that Linux must be perfectly easy to install so that people can convert their old machines is somewhat nonsense. Most consumers just throw out their computer and buy a new one. If that new computer has Linux instead of Windows, they'll use it. (and half will think it's a new version of "Microsoft" until someone informs them otherwise..) On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past Linux to start catching on as a way to re-use old consumer PCs where Windows has been destroyed by Spyware or its own doing. If you're formatting the drive anyhow and don't care about old data, most modern desktop-centric distros will provide a useable working environment with minimal knowledge and will detect all major hardware.

      The mere existence of multiple windowing systems means that applications will be targeted at one of them. Sure, if the average user decides he likes Gnome best, he can still use KDE applications, but the little inconsitencies in the interface will start to wear on him.

      First of all, the consistency is no worse than Windows software, where almost every program today has its own custom widget set and/or bitmap themeable GUI. Office 2003 is not even consistent with the Windows XP interface -- nor is Windows Media Player, nor iTunes, nor AIM. This is not a major issue to most people. They're used to it. Sure, it's an eye sore to those with asthetic taste, but it's not a show stopper. I would go as far as to say Linux GUIs are more consistent for the most popular software.

      The cut and paste issue is likewise a non-issue today. Go try it yourself. Cut from KWrite and then paste via Ctrl-V into gaim, gedit, OpenOffice, Firefox, and KWord. No problems whatsoever. This argument is bunk. It was valid 5 years ago, but not today.

      Linux still needs a lot of work to be that thing.

      I often say the same thing for Windows and Mac OSX, though OSX may have a slight lead at the moment. The whole consistency and usability issue is going to keep getting better thanks to work by the freedesktop.org group.

    26. Re:Great! by gullevek · · Score: 2, Funny

      oh great. other people might not know the secrets of the x config file.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
  2. But .. by karvind · · Score: 5, Funny
  3. Why does that sound a little off? by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it perhaps that in those businesses, 17% and 21% had people using Macs?

    I'm a Mac user, and at my company we have about 10% Mac users.

    I'm not saying it's impossible that TWENTY ONE PERCENT of the businesses out there exclusively use Macs... I think it's unlikely, and that the article is misrepresenting the data...

    But then, I haven't read the Jupiter report.

    --
    That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    1. Re:Why does that sound a little off? by Nightlily · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At one point I would have agreed with you completely. At my current job I'm the Mac OS X tech / SysAdmin. Some types of businesses are almost exclusively Mac. I work at a university and the newspaper is a Mac only shop, because newspapers are primarily Mac shops. Graphic artists, marketing, etc... use Macs too. So if we take most newspapers, graphic artists (who may have a few employees other than him or herself, marketing and then add a few other business - we may actual reach 17%.

    2. Re:Why does that sound a little off? by TinyManCan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that the numbers are fishy, but I also disagree with your numbers as well.

      Any company over 2,500+ workstations is going to have _at least_ one mac. Be it for testing external websites, publishing, or the crotchety manager who only uses macs.

      So, 12-21% can not represent the number of companies with at least one mac, that number is going to be much higher.

  4. I call shenanigans on that by l33t-gu3lph1t3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I call shenanigans on this survey. I've worked educational and corporate IT, and Macs have NEVER been this prevalent. This article's suggesting that 1 in 5 business desktops are macs. Sales show this is more like 10x the real figure.

    --
    ------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
    1. Re:I call shenanigans on that by linzeal · · Score: 2, Informative

      The last company I worked for had the entire advertising department and copyeditors on macs. That was like 150 machines out of pry 500. So I believe it at least from the pov of my exp.

    2. Re:I call shenanigans on that by Fahrvergnuugen · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm with you. I work for a company with 27,000 employees and I have the __only__ mac. lucky me :)

      --
      Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
    3. Re:I call shenanigans on that by daveschroeder · · Score: 2, Informative

      I call shenanigans on your bullshit post.

      "I've working in educational and corporate IT" (and in fact do now), and I can say that Macs are extremely prevalent in academic, government, and research environments, and everyone in those environments knows it. It's hard to walk around a large research campus or a national lab without seeing Macs everywhere. So while I'm not making any claims whether Macs are 1 in 5 business desktops, to say that Macs aren't prevalent in bullshit.

      And by the way, just as an example, Macs are MORE than 1 in 5 machines at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, one of the nations largest universities. It's not uncommon to find this at many large research institutions.

    4. Re:I call shenanigans on that by toddestan · · Score: 2, Informative

      So while I'm not making any claims whether Macs are 1 in 5 business desktops, to say that Macs aren't prevalent in bullshit.

      He didn't say they weren't prevelant, he just said they weren't that prevelant. Even the most Mac heavy organizations I have seen might be 50% Apple machines overall. Factor in all those companies where the Mac usage hoovers around 0%, and there is NO WAY that 21% of computers are Macs.

      To further call shenanigans an the article, note that it doesn't say Macs, it says Mac OSX. That means it isn't counting all those older Macs running OS9 and earlier!

    5. Re:I call shenanigans on that by thesandtiger · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, they're saying that in businesses larger than 250 people, 1 in 5 computers are Macintoshes. That is a very, very different thing than "1 in 5 business desktops are macs." Some people work for companies that have fewer than 250 people.

      Really, this makes sense to me: Every large (250+ employee) business I've worked for or at has had an in-house graphic design staff (using Macs). The only small (250 employee) businesses I've worked for that had any Mac users were advertising and other creative firms. Big businesses can support "non core" employees much more readily than smaller firms can.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  5. I think they meant.... by Skip+Head · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "in businesses with 250 employees or more, 17 percent of the companies had one or more employees who were running Mac OS X on their desktop computer at work. In Businesses that had 10,000 or more employees, 21 percent of the companies had one or more employees who used Mac OS X on their desktop work computer."

    That sounds more likely.

    --
    Most evil is done by good people, and not by accident, but deliberately; motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.
    1. Re:I think they meant.... by ecklesweb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact is we have no idea what they meant. Proprietary research bugs me a bit because you can read press articles about it, but you can't actually read the report yourself to determine whether the reporter mangled the conclusions of the study or whether the study was worth the paper it was printed on in the first place. Forget about being able to detect any bias.

      What really suprises me is that although the Macworld article is dated July 21, there's no press release from JupiterResearch announcing the study (see http://www.jupiterresearch.com/bin/item.pl/press:r eleases/), and on the analyst's page - well, the analyst quoted in the macworld article - there's no mention of the report at all (see http://www.jupiterresearch.com/bin/item.pl/company :analyst/jup/id=4569/).

      So, we have second hand information that is impossible to confirm in any way, shape, or form.

      Nothing to see here, move along.

  6. eh? by nickos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why does the share of employees running Mac OS X increase as the company gets bigger?

  7. didn't poll us obviously... by boomerny · · Score: 2, Insightful

    out of 7000 users we have 3 Macs(in the graphics arts dept of course). If they polled who had a Mac at home the number would be significantly higher, I can count at least 10 people in my immediate area who use Macs at home(including me). You can't trust these reports.

  8. A new world for Apple by chia_monkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been noticing the trend for enterprise acceptance for Macs for a while now. It started with some of the industry mags (not just MacWorld and Mac Addict) writing about Macs. Perhaps it was the introduction of XServe with its UNIX power, Mac ease of use, and cheaper licensing. Or maybe it was an offshoot of the move to Linux. Whatever the case, I've seen more and more actual stories in the different magazines that weren't simply bashing the Mac as in the days of old. Rather, the writers were talking about each new Mac OS release, the performance, etc.

    I find it especially funny how it contrasts the "market share" numbers published. This is certainly higher than the 3-4% you commonly see. One could say "well these numbers are business numbers so they must have higher acceptance in the enterprise than for home users", which once again goes against everything we've been taught over the years. "If you want a home machine, a Mac is ok. But for business, you need a PC".

    --

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
  9. Re:Less is not more? by Colonel+Panic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only thing that surprises me about this statement is that companies are willing to spend 2x as much on the hardware and the additional money on the OS.

    The perception is that the extra money up-front is worth it in the long term especially when compared to the Virus maintenance required for Windows boxen.

    Also, the perception in businesses is that it's worthwhile to pay extra as compared to running Linux on cheap PCs because they don't believe that Linux will be cost effective to maintain when compared to OS X (this may or may not be true, like I said it's a perception). While Linux has made huge strides toward the desktop in recent years, it's still got a ways to go to be as usable as OS X.

  10. This isn't a surprise. by Captain+Scurvy · · Score: 5, Informative
    'Companies that were considering Linux are now buying Mac OS X instead.'

    Of course they are. Why? Because there are a lot of legacy applications that write closed format documents with versions for Mac and Windows, but not Linux. This means that if a company wants to get the benefits that Mac and Linux offer over Windows, it will either have to buy Mac, or find some way to port its library of legacy documents over to an open format.

    There are certaintly ways to do this in many cases, but going the Mac route would probably be easier, and maybe even cheaper or at least as expensive if you take man hours into consideration. Plus you have a strong corporate label backing your Mac setup, which you don't necessarily have with Linux, and this is very important to people.

  11. OS X Is brilliant by coopaq · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Can I just say as a developer/admin/user/artist of many years that OS X is the most brilliant OS I've used.

    I hate to blow smoke up Steve Jobs arse, but even with all the little quirks you get "everything" in the os you could want. Unix, Graphics, usability.

    Being able to run this OS on the most abundant and popular hardware* in the next year or so is going to really be awesome for OS X.

    If I was a musician also I'd probably never leave the house.

    My point is from top to bottom it has it all.

    If you use nothing but windows or linux you really should get your hands on a used Mac or something and see what it is like when you own it.

    I feel like a marketing dork, but ever since Amiga went the way of the dodo I've been wanting something to replace it.

    OS X blows the doors off what Amiga wanted to be.

    --------------- *Yes you will somehow be able to run OS X on your AMD/Intel PC. So stop blathering on about it.

  12. Makes Sense by WatertonMan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just converted my primary machine from Windows to Mac. I'd been using Macs again since 10.2, but with 10.4 it was finally good enough. No more virus worries, Word works if anything better on the Mac, you have all the benefits of Linux with none of the costs.

    I'd tried Linux for the desktop so many times but it always was a very frustrating experience. OSX has some related problems. The fact is that SAMBA browsing of Windows networks isn't anywhere near as easy as using a Windows box. If I was on a Windows network where all the IP addresses were dynamic, I might think twice about a Mac or Linux. But once you get past the networking problems, the Mac simply is a better experience.

    I wish Linux well. But configuration is simply too hard. It still feels like things are 90% done with that last 10% being too frustrating! I think many people won't mind. But for many people the effort just isn't worth it.

  13. In other news by glsunder · · Score: 4, Funny

    After publishing a questionable study about macs, Jupiter Research's exposure went up dramatically.

  14. Re:Less is not more? by technomancerX · · Score: 5, Informative
    Yeah, in corporate environments it's probably not as big of a deal but when you are talking 25+ of 10k+ machines that's a lot of cash you could have saved by going w/cheaper hardware and a free OS.

    10k+? A loaded dual G5 with dual 30" displays doesn't even come out to 10k. Apples are a bit more expensive than Wintel machines, but they're not THAT expensive.

    --
    .technomancer
  15. Re:Less is not more? by BoomerSooner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Exactly. 90%+ of the cost of running my business is employees. Hardware and software, while not cheap are significantly less expensive over time.

    For example:
    12K Server estimated lifespan = 3 years = 4K/year
    36K Support Person 1 year at 3 years runs you 108K. Not to mention the extra 6K/year in Payroll Taxes & FICA Matching or the 6K/year in insurance coverage by the company bringing the 3 year total to 144K.

    Keeping hardware and software up to date to make certain your *expensive* employees can do their job is the best investment a company can make.

  16. This report has to be wrong by Redundant+offtopic+t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or at least the report of the report.

    On the face of it, if that large a percentage were using Macs, Apple would have shown tremendous market share gains in its past several quarterly announcements, and its share would now be somewhere in the neighborhood of HP/Compaq. (The ~33% gain of this last announcement was Apple's own year over year--terrific, and I'm glad I own stock--but not against the industry as a whole.)

    I agree with an earlier post, that the percentages must be the amount of businesses that have at least one Mac, not the percentage of employees using Macs.

  17. Follow the Leader by ndansmith · · Score: 3, Informative
    I think that the example of some high profile companies (read: Google) using Mac and Linux predominantly has helped Mac OS X gain ground in the business world. For instance, if you read on Google's job opportunities pages, you find that Mac OS X skills are valued as much or more than Windows skills.

    Just thought I would add: 100 computers on my network, two of which are Macs (graphic design and music recording).

  18. /me looks around by bad_outlook · · Score: 2, Funny

    /me peeks under desk /me peeks in boardroom /me peeks in pr department /me peeks in noc Hmmm...for a company of 12,000, I sure wish I knew where they hid all these Macs! Seriously though, I wish this were the case, and perhaps it is...somewhere, but I haven't seen it in the last 4 places I've worked (I'm a contrator). Anyone with more sightings? Are they replacing desktops (/me hopes) or are the Xserves going to take off? (/me doubtful)

  19. 2X where do you get that number? by MushMouth · · Score: 4, Informative
    You have to look at what companies are buying for machines. Something like a Dell Laptop (extremely popular) is comperable in price to an Apple Laptop


    Dell Precision M70 1.6GHz/80Gig/256Mb/15.4" lcd $2,400 + (Tax everywhere)


    Apple G4 1.5GHz/80Gig/512Mb/15.2" lcd $2,000 + (tax in california only)

    1. Re:2X where do you get that number? by rsborg · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And arguably, the G4 is a faster CPU

      As a noted Apple apologist, I'd like to say: this is completely impossible. The P-M is much faster than a G4 of the same or even greater clockspeed... in fact probably on par with an Athlon 64 for non-64bit operations.

      Now, all those nice virii/spyware/company anti-virus-defense cruft that your Windows box will attract... now that may make it seem like the Mac with the G4 is much faster :-)

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    2. Re:2X where do you get that number? by FortranDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple G4 1.5GHz/80Gig/512Mb/15.2" lcd $2,000 + (tax in california only)

      If you buy from the Apple Store you'll get taxed (if Apple has a retail presence in your state you can count on paying the tax). It is only if you buy from a mail order company that you'll (usually) avoid taxes.

      --
      "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
  20. Terminal by twistedcubic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have to admit that I love the terminal program on OSX. The computer lab I use has 100 windows PCs and 8 Macs, which are never used, and not having to stand in line is the reason I started using the Mac away from home. It's amazing how much work I can get done comfortably because Mac OSX comes with SSH and GNU Screen already installed. I'm almost tempted to buy a Mac, but there is just too much useful software that works in GNU/Linux w/o a compatibility layer, that I would definitely miss.

  21. Common hatred by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nothing will rile up a bunch of linux users like a mention of Microsoft and Windows. But nothing riles up Windows users like mentioning Apple.

    Linux still has a long way to go in usability polishing, but it's getting there. As a recent Ubuntu convert myself I keep running into situations where I miss the polish pro of XP. Another year or so, and I think we'll be closer.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  22. Re:Less is not more? by the_rev_matt · · Score: 4, Informative

    Clearly you don't do purchasing for large enterprises. I'm in an organization known for being cheap and the 'low end' machines they buy are in the $900-$1200 range (though with bulk discounts I'm sure it's less than that). A high end machine will be $1800-$2500. Gee, that's what a G5 tower costs.

    Fortune 1000 companies don't build their own boxes from parts they find on pricewatch, and they don't buy eMachines boxes. They buy mid range and high end Dell/HP/Gateway boxes and pay the same price they'd pay for an Apple box.

    --
    this is getting old and so are you

    blog

  23. Re:Less is not more? by tolkienfan · · Score: 4, Funny
    Please!

    The collective term for Unix systems is boxen.

    The collective term for Windows is "crap"

  24. Re:One Place Windows beats OSX by MarcQuadra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd rather pay $129 every 18 or 36 months (it's OK to do every-other release, you know) than be on the Windows treadmill of utilities to keep the machine running properly. Don't forget that you get the functional equivalent of several commercial apps with OSX and iLife, including Ghost and the ability to run all the GNU tools natively.

    We just transitioned from OS X to Windows in a department at my work, and the software licensing per machine went from about $350/year under the Macs to over $700/year for the PCs (they now need a bunch of Adobe apps since they can't print-to-pdf, organize photos, or have their machines reimaged like they used to)

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  25. We would in a heartbeat... by raddan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    ...if only our intranet apps would run on OSX. Isn't that ironic? Our web based applications won't run in another web browser. Hell, they won't run on Windows XP SP2! Where's the value? Whenever I use this line of reasoning with anyone around here, all I get is angry looks. This sh*t would have been more portable if it had been written in C!

    But I would love to switch our regular desktop users over to OSX, especially remote users. We could get rid of that totally cruddy and barely functional POS that is is Checkpoint, and switch to the simpler and easier-to-understand SSL tunnels. Once you see the beauty that is timed startups & shutdowns + radmind, you'd never want to go back to Windows...

    As for linux... Yeah, linux is fun and all, but it ain't ready for regular people. I'd much sooner roll out a BSD than linux -- and this is why I ditched linux myself -- I am sick and tired of dealing with dependency hell. Even my 'easy' Gentoo box sucked days of my life from me...

  26. Re:"Buying" Linux by clesters · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True Linux is free, but...

    I don't own a Mac but the point of having closed hardware from one vendor is that the people who run the OS don't have to jump through hoops trying to find out who made the hardware, where is the driver, what is the latest version of the driver, etc.

    The people who develop the software for the OS or the OS itself don't have to worry about having their software work fine on one machine only to have it flip out on another.

    Look how much code could be ripped out of Linux, and how much more stable it would be if they only wrote software for limited combinations of hardware.

    This is why people buy Macs. Because are stable, secure. People are willing to pay for that, especially in larger environments.

  27. Macs work just fine in corporate Windows environs by revscat · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm sitting here in a corporate, Windows-centric environment, and I'm happily using a Mac. (And surfing /., but we'll ignore that for the moment.)

    My work environment is typical: Exchange server for email, MS Office for spreadsheets and word processing, etc. Guess what? I'm happy as a clam. Mail.app can connect to the Exchange server, Entourage handles the calendar (and mail, but I prefer Mail.app), Office for OS X works just fine and is completely seemless when exchanging documents with people on Windows, and I can connect to and mount any share on the network. I can, in short, do everything I want or need.

    And I'm running OS X, not Windows, and that in and of itself is worth a lot.

    There is only one application we use (our source control software, which somewhat ironically is written in Java) that does not run on OS X, and whenever I need that I just Remote Desktop in to my PC and do what I need.

    Unless Macs are being used as servers as well as desktops, I don't see them doing as good a job as Windows or Linux for their respective 'corporate' environments.

    I can tell you from personal (and daily!) experience that this isn't the case. Macs work quite well even in an almost exclusively Windows environment.

  28. Mod Up by tabdelgawad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Jupiter report is not accessible, but it's either worthless or being grossly misquoted by Macworld. 1 in 5?! Where are those Fortune 500 companies that have announced rollouts of Macs as replacements for their IBM and Dell Wintel machines?

    --
    Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
  29. You get what you pay for by cyberworm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Firstly, I don't mean to imply that my OS is better than yours, or vice versa (unless you're running windows, then yeah, I do), so please don't mod me a troll.
    I currently switched to Mac from windows, because I like it better. From performance to overall ease of use.
    I administer a WAN of five private practice physical therapy clinics consisting of about 15 clients + server. Currently we use Intergy Medical Manager as our medrec/billing software, which ONLY runs on windows and is client-server. It's not a bad program, but is very limited for our environment (especially costwise). The server I built for it, has been running win2k steady for almost a year now without fail or problems.
    However, the costs associated with paying Intergy for licensing, upgrading, and training really add up. Now, add on top of that, time and trouble from those pesky client pcs(windows xp) and adding other workstations. Costs start adding up when you have to scrap legacy hardware to run the latest OS to keep up with the latest upgrade. We all know the drill.
    Linux would be a GREAT solution to these kinds of problems for us, but my bosses are committed to this expensive investment of hardware and software . What comes to mind when I try to see it from their perspective is "you get what you pay for, no way am I taking a risk and flushing this invest ment down the drain, for something FREE." Would you risk your business on it? I certainly wouldn't. I think maybe in larger environments bean counters are starting to see more costs coming in supporting windows, bandwidth, etc. and encouraging the tech staff to find a solution. The solution being linux or unix. Well, in my mind, I can't see a PHB betting their job on "free" so will pay for an alternative, that they may feel is similar to windows (don't outcast me mac guys) and something they have to pay for gives them security, name recognition(it's a psych thing I know), and just plain works. Especially since Mac is making a name for itself as being "virus proof" in mainstream media. Linux too, but once again, it's "free, and you get what you pay for." Sure Mac systems aren't terribly cheap when placed against the PC market, but I think the savings becomes apparent when the hardware dosen't have to be upgraded as often, especially if all you're doing is running a thin client or web browser.
    I look forward to tossing all the windows machines out the door once I upgrade our systems again in another year or two.
    The WorldVista software something that I'm now seriously looking into to help make the switch.
    Networking Macs, I discovered is terribly easy, and just as easy to secure and lock down.
    Now, I've just taken and made a longer lasting and more secure investment and saved a TON of money. From Hardware on up. The best part is, the investment in our server gets paid off as it's lifetime is increased using linux (hey, if they don't need to work on it, they don't need to know ;).
    (email me if you'd like to know why they'd accept a free medrec/billing program and not OS).

    I'm not in a large enterprise environment, only because of lack of employees. I'd guess that appart from the cubicals and numbers, things are about the same everywhere.

  30. Re:A whole lot of whatever by tolkienfan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "There really isn't anything wrong with Windows at work."

    So there's nothing wrong with the usual windows experiences like:

    1. Downtime (the Exchange servers where I consult are constantly dropping).
    2. Virii. Our IT staff do a great job of keeping virii out, but the work this entails is very costly. And when a virus does get through, it's even more costly.
    3. Incompatibility. The Microsoft world does not play well with others. They change SMB, Kerberos, the TCP/IP stack and sockets programming. They even change the Office files documents. HTML, CSS, the list goes on and on.
    4. Training. Microsoft ensure that their products change enough that people need training on things they already new. They change the location of menu items, files, configuration options, etc. More cost.
    5. Upgrade cycle. Bill gates once said that the main competitor to Windows 98 was Windows 95. So they terminate support for previous versions, and force customers to spend more money - even if they were content with their setup (some people don't need the latest and greatest; it's true!).
      1. And you say there's nothing wrong with Windows at work!

  31. Important research! by jfengel · · Score: 4, Funny

    You should definitely publish your results in J. Anecdotal Evidence.

  32. Re:Makes Sense by Fahrvergnuugen · · Score: 3, Informative

    What makes you say that browsing a windows network doesn't work well on a mac? I find that it works better with OSX than it does with windows...

    I click Network in the Finder, then select the domain I want. Then I double click on the machine I want to connect to. All of my passwords are stored in my keychain so the share just mounts.

    I can't count how many times I've gotten the "could not map drive because of conflicting credentials" error message in windows...

    --
    Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
  33. That's not what the report is saying... by Space+cowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It says that in businesses with >250 employees, 17% of the employees used macs. So if the business did have 250 employees, 42 of them would be using macs (17% of 250). Likewise for the 21% figure.

    It doesn't say that 17% of all the companies who were polled exclusively use macs, at least that's not how I read it...

    Simon

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
  34. Re:+1 Informative, -1 Redundant by plazman30 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually BSD is NOT Unix. The original BSD source that was released by Berkely had everything removed from it that made it UNIX, hence the stripping and lawsuits. All BSDs prior to the release of BSD under the BSD license (such as SunOS), are UNIX. All BSD after the release (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.) are all Unix-like or *nix operating systems.

    These days, the only way something can be called UNIX, is if it undergoes validation testing with and certification with the Open Group, which costs a pretty penny, from what I understand.

  35. Re:Less is not more? by tgrimley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even considering brother post.. 30" cinema displays are 3k each commercially, and the base price of a dual 2.7g5 is 3k. I'd say 9k + some options would get you well over 10k.

  36. Re:"Buying" Linux by bano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But I can speak from experience.
    Companys buy linux because its "cheaper".
    But when you figure in that you arent going to be using commodity hardware in your datacenter environment, so you buy dell/hp/sun.
    Then you buy redhat AS/ES, since thats what applications specify they NEED, then you need support (which is worthless from redhat) because you can't run supportless in an enterprise environment.
    You have just spent just as much money as you would on the equivilent M$ system.

  37. learn some english, please. i'm begging you. by illtron · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm sure this will be labelled as trolling, but the illiterate person who submitted this item is apparently unaware that "environs" is not the same thing as "environment." "Environs" is the area surrounding something. So apparently Mac OS X is hanging out somewhere near corporations, perhaps in the parking lots.

    "Environs"

    --
    Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
  38. Re:Ever seen the "item not found" error by le_defaut_tragique · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Resource forks? Come now! Have you not used a Mac since OS 9? Man, your complaints are *so* 1999. Give it another try.

  39. Re:OS X "switch" by WatertonMan · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've been frustrated with RDC at times, although I don't think you can run multiple instances under Windows either. I believe you can run multiple instances if you make a copy of RDC. (I've not tried that so don't quote me) I frequently use VNC. It's not as fast as RDC at some thing, but at other things like scrolling is much faster for odd reasons.

    Microsoft has announced a new version of Entourage that will fix all the problems. I can't speak to that nor the release date. Some people have sworn to me about Evolution, the Novell Exchange client for Linux. It is also available as a binary for OSX. You might consider trying that, although you loose some Mac feel.

    I've never had trouble with Office documents, although I only use passwords occasionally. I've actually found for some things, such as versioning comments, that the Mac version is superior to the PC version. I certainly prefer Word on the Mac as opposed to Word on the PC. The sidebar on Windows for Office really bugs me.

  40. Re:Less is not more? by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dude have you ever seen a rack full of apple servers?

    it makes the crap from Dell,HP and IBM look like throwback toys from 1989.

    The local Apple dealer had a 7 foot rack full of them with their apple flatpanel + pullout keyboard tray that also looked to be the "brushed aluminum" n their lobby as a demo... IT guys for miles were drooling and messing their pants.

    if I was a CTO trying to impress my other billionare buddies, a datacenter full of apple equipment is more impressive looking than even SUN or Silicon graphics gear, Dell and HP dont have a chance when it comes to pure sex appeal of their server gear.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  41. Re:Less is not more? by Creepy · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would say companies are willing to spend $2500 for a variety of reasons

    a) computers are 2 year depreciating assets in the US, last time I checked ($1250 a year for 2 years written off on taxes)

    b) large companies offer hardware support (Dell, Gateway, HP, etc). If you build your own, your own support staff is responsible, and what if the builder leaves? Management doesn't like risks like that.

    c) software support is also required - OEM Windows requires the hardware vendor to provide most support (and therefore costs less). This isn't always supplied by the hardware vendor, so I list it separately (I've worked for a hardware vendor and redirected calls for bundled software to the software vendor, so have firsthand experience on this).

    d) established vendors (like Dell, Gateway, HP, and Apple) have volume discount contracts and often bundle software (like MS Office), as well (as mentioned).

    I know companies that have made large purchases of Linux boxes, but always from established Linux companies like RedHat and Novell (SuSE). You'll never find Slackware because of support, or GenToo because no party is responsible for "owning" it (i.e. can't pressure vendor to make bug fixes).

  42. Desktop vs. Server by fupeg · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From TFA:
    The report found that in businesses with 250 employees or more, 17 percent of the employees were running Mac OS X on their desktop computer at work.
    What's this? Intelligent choices being made by PHBs?
    Nine percent of companies with 250 employees or more used Mac OS X Server, while 14 percent of companies with 10,000 employees or more used Apple's Server software.
    Ahh, now that's more like it. OSX Server is really crap becuase of OSX's poor thread management. So if the first statistic is true, then the second one makes sense, i.e. it's just a knee-jerk reaction. There are many good arguments for OSX on desktops over Linux, but very few ones for OSX Server over Linux. Of course there are certainly good ones for OSX (or Linux) over Windows just based real security risks.
  43. Can be summarized as... by Mr.+Cancelled · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "When I want to tweak and hack, I can do so to my hearts content. But when I need to work, it's ready to go, no tweaking needed".

    I'm paraphrasing someone else's observations, but it's always stuck with me, and it describes why I decided to plop down money on a dual G5 about 1.5 years ago. While I still like to hack Linux on occasion, or try to squeeze a few more cycles out of my box, I don't have to just to do everyday things.

    In fact, what also made me see the light was realizing how many hours I'd spend tweaking together a Linux distro, or an XP installation, just to get it the way I wanted it. I multiplied that by the hourly rate I charge others to work on their PC's, and immediately realized that I'd be time and therefore money ahead by getting a Mac and just having it work.

  44. Then why doesn't Linux support it? by Minstrel+Boy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Gave Ubuntu a try on my two-year old PB17 a couple of months ago.

    No wireless, no sleep, no power management... that's as far as I got before rebooting. Oh, and I don't think Bluetooth worked, either.

    That's about as stationary target as Linux can expect, they haven't come within a mile of hitting it.

    My experiences with Linux/BSD have been that they're pretty damned picky WRT hardware. As an end user, I don't really care whether it's because nobody has written to my particular hardware, or the manufacturer has withheld docs. Reality is I can't run Linux on my PB with anything like the functionality of OS X, and when I try to put one of them on a PC I expect to have to buy a new NIC, new video card, or both. I have yet, in years of attempts, to get Linux installed on a laptop with support for all the hardware features - and I've not heard of anyone else doing so, either. I see a lot of CLAIMS, but they end up being heavily caveated with "but I don't use (this/that/other), so I don't care that it doesn't work". Well, I care.

    KeS

  45. Re:Ever seen the "item not found" error by LenE · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Ever tried to share a printer connected to a Mac with Windows machines?

    Yes. The problems are usually on the Windows end because of lack of installed drivers. That OS X doesn't share out windows drivers is not Apple's fault. Likewise, the fact that there are several incompatible methods for sharing windows printers and that a driver may only expect a single type may cause problems. The same problems that OS X has with sharing Windows printers is shared by Samba on other Unix platforms.

    Ever had to reboot to make your network shares re-appear?

    Yes. Almost every time on my Win XP SP2 box when I want to use it over the network. Quite often, it can't see itself! Again, not an apple problem, but Microsoft futzing with SMB/CIFS. I've never had to reboot my Mac to make network shares re-appear, as all it takes is a netbios query. Do you know anything about Windows networking? Like the fact that sometimes it can take up to fifteen minutes for a change in sharing to propagate, or that slap-fights and hissy fits between domain controllers can take down all Windows networking on an entire subnet? Do some reading on Samba and educate yourself before you implicate non-windows OS's as problematic when it comes to Windows networking.

    Ever had problems copying files to Windows file share due to unsupported characters and resource forks?

    Nope. Can't say I've ever been bitten by this one. Ever. When you copy files that contain resource forks, the forks are stored in a hidden directory. Windows doesn't use them and OS X knows how to retrieve them as well. Now if you like to futz with things and erase these files or the hidden directories, it isn't Apple's fault. Also, this has no effect on the utility of the data in the files. Resource forks don't store the data, only metadata. If a program shoves data into a resource fork that should be in the data fork, then that's the fault of the developer for being stupid. In any case, this does not impact the way that OS X and Windows interoperate.

    -- Len
  46. Re:Less is not more? by dtungsten · · Score: 2, Funny

    The collective term for Unix systems is boxen.

    The collective term for Windows is "
    crap"

    What about Xbox? Would the plural of that be Xcrap?

    If it were Apple, could it be iCrap? Then I could get a laptop and take my iCrap in the bathroom!

  47. switch 1/4 of the office by pherein · · Score: 5, Informative

    sun solaris servers, and 1/4 of the office was switched to mac ox, 3/4 use windows xp.
    Mac os x has made a huge difference in our corporation.
    Techs actually learn unix.
    downtime is reduced 80%
    no compatibility problems
    opensource resources are outstanding
    job performance increased 40%
    no real security worries
    wireless is almost flawless
    bluetooth KB, mouse, phone work as well as windows
    greatly reduced cost
    the list just goes on, and we have plans to switch the entire 200 person corp. in 1 year
    I got to say any director of IT who is not looking into this is just negligent. Network engineering is not a preference. You have to use what works at the time.
    We estimate windows longhorn will be at this lvl in 2009.
    Most users are diehard windows user, but using this OS have changed everyones opinion. Going to the apple store and people actually care about helping them, at no charge, and simple stuff like finding a file written 3 years ago in 20 secs.
    I personally think that the os ranting is very childish. You ask urself what companies space suit you would wear on the moon. I guaranty most would be using the apple or sun space suit right now. Those wearing the MS space suit would die at the first freeze of the OS running the space suit. I can't bet my life or my business on what I like, I use what gives it the best chance for survival. Thats my job.

  48. Hmm...17 percent of the employees... by greymond · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if that is 17% of actual employees or 17% of actual systems. 17% seems high...

    The place I work at has 4 main offices, each with ±40 people. Of the ±40 at each office we have ±4 people in the marketing departments at each who use Apple systems exclusively. That's a solid 10% for Employees/Mac Users. But how many Apple machines is that?

    Well if each of the ±40 people have 1 PC, this includes the Marketing dept, since their web related stuff is done on PC's, then the ±4 users each have a Mac, now include the ±3 PC servers in each office (Mail, Marketing, CompanyShare) we have ±47 machines in each building ±4 of which are Mac that leaves us with Macs being 8.5% of the total amount of systems in the office.

    Now obviously my company isn't the same as everyone else, but I'd be willing to bet that either that number is fudged in Apples favor a bit, or the numbers reflect PC's being tossed out while unused Macs sit around in inventory for a while. Which I believe could influence the numbers since at my work we only USE 4 systems for the 4 people, but there are 4 G4's that are sitting in storage as "backups" in case one of the G5's goes down, and we don't keep old PC's at all. They get donated soon as they are unplugged.

  49. Re:OS X "switch" by majkqball · · Score: 2, Informative

    1. Entourage sucks ass. I just moved over to Mail.app in Tiger and it's a much better experience. Of course, things other than mail don't carry their way over. Oh darn. iCal can upload a .ics file via WebDAV and other iCal users can check my calendar. 2. RDC - Take a look at http://rdesktop.org/. Much more configurable. Works great. 3. I've had other issues with Office 2004 Mac. Excel likes to munge weblinks and row heights. Not to mention it doesn't save things where you think they should (i.e. saving HTML document where I opened it makes me save a new file in a new directory. YECH). I haven't found any solutions for this yet. I've been Macified since Jan 2004 and I won't look back. I do have a PC next to it (using http://synergy2.sf.net/ so no keyboard and mouse) and I use it for the basic things... i.e. my Windows based phone software and other cranky Winapps. It's old and slow so I use it infrequently. I do use it for VNC because I have yet to find one VNC client on the Mac that Just Works.

    --
    SBC stands for Stupid Bell Company
    AT&T stands for All Telephones Tapped
  50. What platforms are slashdot readers using? by geddes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd be interested in seeing slash-dot publish their readership percentages over time. I wonder if the overall percentage of slashdot readers that are on linux has gone down while the overall percentage on a mac have gone up.

  51. Linux for server/special projects - OS X for desk by Listen+Up · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I will preface this post by saying that I have +20 years of computing experience as both a developer and administrator. I have developed or administered almost every kind of UNIX out there (including NeXtStep and OpenStep) and every edition of Windows. While the Macintosh was not the greatest in the 1990's, Mac OS X changed everything. I have used Linux as both a desktop and a server since Redhat's Mother's Day release in the early 1990's.

    Linux is perfect for background servers and special cost sensitive, in-house specially developed projects where licensing fees are important. Mac OS X is the perfect UNIX for the desktop and is beginning to make in-roads into enterprise rack servers.

    The Linux community brings it on themselves. Linux will always be a niche in the desktop computing world. And while it is sometimes fun and interesting to try Linux on the desktop, Mac OS X is what Linux will always wish it could be.

    Mac OS X is all the UNIX you could want with a simply brilliantly designed, fully featured, and consistent user interface, exceptional ease of use and administration with an excellent unified package management system. Everything you always wish you could have had on UNIX is now here on Mac OS X. Absolutely brilliant.

    If you bash on Mac OS X it is because you have never used it before or you are too afraid to admit it kicks Linux's ass on the desktop. Linux zeolots are afraid to admit that Linux on the desktop sucks. All of the Linux zeolots I have listened to over the years all live in their own little world. And if they never realize it and never change their views, and if they don't get their act together and all work towards a common unified platform for desktop computing, Linux on the desktop will always suck. And they will continue to live in their own little world. End of the story.

  52. Re:Linux for server/special projects - OS X for de by Listen+Up · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And for most people, Linux is only a hobby OS and nothing more. Something to play with when you have spare time to tinker around with it.

  53. Re:Less is not more? by eexlebots · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True, but WTF are you doing giving some average corporate joe that kind of rig? Just grab an iMac with a gig of RAM and plunk it down on his desk. $1500, max, monitor included.

    --
    ***
  54. implausible by cahiha · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think that story and those statistics are implausible, both given how big businesses operate and given Apple's actual sales figures.

    Furthermore, the suggestion that OS X is an alternative to Linux indicates a lack of understanding of what Linux is all about and why it's being adopted.

  55. Re:Linux for server/special projects - OS X for de by aCapitalist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree completely. I started using Linux in '97 after we saw the writing on the wall for OS/2.

    The linux groupthinkers will never get it, because they're told all this nonsense about choice and source code is a moral right and all sorts of other nonsense.

    Your point about a common unified desktop platform is spot on...and something the groupthinkers never grok. Hell, if the LSB (Linux Standards Base) would have a LDSB(Linux Desktop Standards Base) then at least you might see a standard toolkit.

    Hell, X11 is a standard, why isn't there a standard toolkit. I know why. Because Qt can never be the standard and nobody that has pull has the balls to tell the KDE fanboys to STFU.

    Thing would be so much better today if someone had bought Trolltech say back in '98, LGPL'd or GPL'd + exceptions the toolkit, Gnome never had been started, and things like Enlightenment would have been experimental, research desktops.

    XFree was ported back in '92 and it just took too long for people to take the desktop seriously on Linux. That's somewhat understanding considering old-time Unix geeks tended to have a bunch of xterms open and not much else, but now we have a bunch of newbies that think after they pop in a Mandrake CD that someone they're a soldier in the war against Microsoft.

    It's completely evident now that being able to sell your OS (with proprietary bits), along with complete control over the entire software stack from the microkernel all the way up to the desktop has lots of merit.

    The linux "community" is just too factionalized to ever make big inroads onto the desktop.

  56. Re:Less is not more? by not-enough-info · · Score: 2, Funny
    Laughing my ass off! TWO 30" monitors!?!?!? Where's the company that gives this kind of setup? I'll sign today!
    Thank you, Captain Obvious. You've completely ruined my leisurely romp in the GP's fantasy land. Here, let me return the favor. You know all those "interests and hobbies" in pr0n and soft-pr0n mags that the girls always list that are always just ambiguous/common enough to draw some likeness to your interests? They are lies! Their real interests and hobbies include spending their rich boyfriends' money and having sex with people that are not you. Ha! there, how does it feel jackass?
    --
    ---k--
    </stupid>
  57. Entry by Stealth by Nice2Cats · · Score: 3, Interesting
    We're a Windows-only shop (about 200 people), by contract, it seems, but the number of people using Macs at home is skyrocketing -- including, I should say, the head systems administrator, who uses iMovie on his Mac Mini to burn DVDs of his kids. It is common for people to come back home from vacation and press F9 (Expose) or, increasingly, F12 (Dashboard), and then stare at the screen, waiting for things to happen. Personally, I miss Spotlight most of all.

    Anyway, by now we have achieved a sort of critical mass -- if you randomly ask somebody about a virus problem, you are just as likely to get a shrug, a smile, and a response along the lines of "what's a virus?" And every time our Windows servers go down, you get a stream of sarcastic comments. The interesting thing: The Windows people don't defend Windows -- it seems they use it, but have no love for it, either.

    Sooner or later, this all is going to have an effect on management. I don't think we're going to switch our main systems anytime soon -- too expensive -- but if there are secondary things that need to be installed, Apple might have themselves a bridgehead.