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Sony Agrees to Stop Payola

dsginter writes "Sony BMG Music just reached agreement with New York Attorney General. Sony spokesman John McKay admitted that the practice was 'wrong and improper' but the company engaged in the activity anyway. They were fined $10 million and have agreed to obstain from the practice in the future. Is this the first step toward getting our airwaves back or is this just a slap on the wrist?"

73 of 450 comments (clear)

  1. Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Three+Headed+Man · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Recording Industry Association of America will never stop something as profitable as payola without the threat of jail. Period.

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    1. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by evviva · · Score: 2, Informative

      penalty for 'payola' still include up to 1 year of incarceration according to US laws. there's your threat, then. would have been useful to actually define 'payola' for everyone like me that had to go and look it up on google (surprise! we're not all from english speaking countries).

    2. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Three+Headed+Man · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're still not going to prison. The laws will never have any meaningful enforcement as things stand now. 10 Million is less than a slap on the wrist.

      --
      I'm probably at the karma cap. Mod up a funny troll instead, it lightens the mood :)
    3. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly - they just payola'd the US justice system with $10m, its all calculated risk and marketing expenses to them. I wouldn't be surprised if their legal department had already budgeted for this.

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      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    4. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are correct, and the fact that 10m USD is a joke to Sony, they could probably afford a 10M a day fine for years on end before they notice a hit to their bottom line.

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    5. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by laurensv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe some hope for you, from TFA: Jonathan Adelstein, a Democratic member of the Federal Communications Commission, said Spitzer "appears to have found a whole arsenal of smoking guns."
      "We need to investigate each particular instance that Spitzer has uncovered to see if it is a violation of federal law. This is a potentially massive scandal," he said.
      The FCC has power over the nation's radio stations, which are licensed to use public airwaves.

      Maybe if the FCC starts hurting the radios some of them will be less inticed to the practice? Maybe not, becasue look what being a DJ offers:
      In one case, an employee of Sony BMG's Epic label was trying to promote the group Audioslave to a station and asked: "WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET AUDIOSLAVE ON WKSS THIS WEEK?!!? Whatever you can dream up, I can make it happen." In another case in 2004, the promotion department of Sony BMG label Epic Records paid for an extravagant trip to Miami for a Buffalo DJ and three friends in exchange for adding the Franz Ferdinand song "Take Me Out" to the DJ's station's playlist.

    6. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by eclectro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, they (and their cohorts) have promised to stop payola numerous times in the past only to find another way to pass the money under the table.

      Also, don't forget the other four titans Universal, EMI and Warner are conspicuosly absent from this article.

      And I find it interesting that the last sentence says that the 10 million is "earmarked for not-for profits" which must be code-speak for "this is a tax write off"

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    7. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by strider44 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      [source]

      Considering it had a profit of €32 million Q1 this year, but lets be generous considering that was down from other quarters and put it at an even €100 mil for a quarter. That means that they'd make about $500 mill a year.

      They would only last 50 days before their entire profit for the year would be used up. 10 mil is a *lot* of money to *anyone*.

    8. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Emil+Brink · · Score: 4, Informative
      I know I'm being silly, but it was actually explained like this in ... the article:

      A 1960 federal law and related state laws bar record companies from offering undisclosed financial incentives in exchange for airplay. The practice was called "payola," a contraction of "pay" and "Victrola," the old wind-up record player.

      Not being from an English-speaking country myself either, I thought I'd eye the article hoping they would be internally consistent and define the term. They were, and they did. I bet this could be used to try and teach some kind of lesson, but let's not go there. :)
      --
      main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
    9. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Freexe · · Score: 2, Informative

      its a Bribery made to a dj in exchange for promotion of an album or single. Derived from the words 'pay' (give money to) and 'victrola' (a record player).

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    10. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Maybe if the FCC starts hurting the radios some of them will be less inticed to the practice?

      How? It wasn't the radio stations that were breaking the law, it was Sony. Unfortunately, there's nothing illegal about taking bribes to play songs...only offering bribes to play songs.

    11. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by S.O.B. · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How? It wasn't the radio stations that were breaking the law, it was Sony. Unfortunately, there's nothing illegal about taking bribes to play songs...only offering bribes to play songs.

      I think that's the point the parent and grandparent posts were trying to make. It should also be illegal to take the bribe. It's illegal to bribe a politician and it's also illegal for a politician to take a bribe (at least in Canada it is).

      If there are consequences for both sides than the crime is less likely to happen again. Especially when the radio stations are much smaller and have more to lose (i.e. their broadcast license).

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    12. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Gonarat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Payola is a term that dates back to the late 1950's when Rock and Roll was just getting started. Back then, AM radio was king, radio stations were independently owned (no Clear Channel), and DJs had a lot of control over what they played, especially at night.

      To keep it simple, what happened is that music labels began offering DJs money to play their songs. Music producers began targeting the AM stations ran high power at night since these "clear channel" (nothing to do with the company) stations could be heard for hundreds, if not thousands of miles at night.

      In the end, the Feds had to step in and put a stop to this practice. Payola, as it was called, was ended around 1960, but the labels found ways around the law through the use of "Indys" and such. The practice has gotten worse since the FCC allowed companies to own many radio stations. Do some googling if you want to learn more -- it is fascinating.

      --
      Beware of Sleestak
    13. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by pete6677 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Outlawing payola is much like outlawing the bribing of congressmen, in that it can't really be stopped. Sure, outright cash payments are illegal, but there are many other ways to transfer something of value for the purpose of buying influence or exposure. Record labels can always withhold preferred albums from stations who don't play the junk that they want to be played. The music business is so complex that there is no way anyone can ensure that some sort of favor isn't being done to have a certain song played.

      The only way around this problem is for music fans to get their music from other sources (the internet helps greatly) and payola's influence will be a lot less. At the same time, if people voted more, buying off a congressman would have a lot less effect.

      In both cases, it's up to the people to truly solve the problem, the government can't do it for them.

    14. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The story is in English, the summary is in English, the law is in English, this site is in English, your post is in English. All the players involved, including Google, even Sony (their branch under the gun) are in the USA, where English is the official language, the only language spoken by the vast majority of the population, the only language in common of every resident, excluding those very few who speak only 1 other language.

      You're welcome to talk with us, of course, even in English (which you don't misuse too badly - consider capitalization next time you post). And your fact contribution to the discussion is helpful. But as long as you're going to whine about having to look up a word in a language not your native tongue, why don't you link to the definition you found? After all, we're not all from English speaking countries, and could use the help of a fellow second-linguist. Especially when we prefer to debate the payola, rather than some tangential personal agenda about limited vocabularies.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    15. Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by xilet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really, english is th eoffical language in the USA? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Languag e

  2. FYI... by gellenburg · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's "abstain".

    1. Re:FYI... by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Funny

      What are you talking about? "Obstain" is a perfectly cromulent word! :)

      Actually, it may even be a more appropriate word in this case. If "obstain" is to "obstinance" as "abstain" is to "abstinence", well, I'm pretty sure the record industry will dig their heels in and keep paying out that ol' payola. It's been going on non-stop for half a century, and previous busts did little or nothing to halt the process. Sony may have agreed to abstain, but I betcha they'll actually obstain!

    2. Re:FYI... by amper · · Score: 2, Funny

      I, for one, feel tremensly embiggened by our prepensity for the creation of new, more cromulent words.

    3. Re:FYI... by rsidd · · Score: 2, Funny
      If "obstain" is to "obstinance" as "abstain" is to "abstinence"

      I think you mean, as "abstain" is to "abstinacy".

  3. Worth it? by Linus+Torvaalds · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They were fined $10 million and have agreed to obstain from the practice in the future. Is this the first step toward getting our airwaves back or is this just a slap on the wrist?"

    With music industry profits of billions each year, I'm sure they made much more than $10m from doing so. They'll carry on with the payola until it stops being profitable for them to do it.

    Don't forget it's not just direct profits that payola causes. Payola is a large factor in preventing independent musicians from getting adequate airplay, so it actually supresses the competition and reinforces the RIAA cartel's position. That alone has to be worth way more than $10m.

    1. Re:Worth it? by antic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, the penalty is tiny given that the label was using "a more formalized, more corporatized structure" to bribe DJs and "employees sought to conceal some payments by using fictitious contest winners to document the transactions" -- they were really going out of their way to achieve this. It wasn't just one renegade, it appears to be more of a company policy to break the law. Sony are interested in "defining a new, higher standard in radio promotion" -- why would anyone trust them?

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    2. Re:Worth it? by PeteDotNu · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If we're looking for methods that would actually work, I think that the DJs who were accepting these bribes should be forced into retirement.

      I know that it's an absurd over-reaction, but if no-one is willing to accept the bribe, then there will be no bribe.

      --
      My other processor is big-endian.
    3. Re:Worth it? by I_M_Noman · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I think that the DJs who were accepting these bribes should be forced into retirement.
      It wasn't the DJs this time, but rather the stations' Program Directors and Music Directors. Besides, there aren't very many actual DJs left, are there? And the ones who are there probably don't have the power to deviate from the playlist, at least on the stations that would play this crap. Somehow I don't see Pete Fornatale or Vin Scelsa falling for this.
  4. Improvement soon unlikely by gunpowda · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Is this the first step toward getting our airwaves back or is this just a slap on the wrist?

    A Salon feature from earlier this year offers some more information on the practice, and a tentative answer to the question posed in this summary:

    "...radio playlists are unlikely to improve anytime soon. While [promoters] are often seen as dubious, they did have a knack for getting new acts their break on FM radio...station programmers may soon become even less adventurous in choosing which songs get tapped for rotation on FM stations' heavily guarded playlists.

    The indie promotion fallout could be especially tough on smaller, independently owned record labels...The short-term effect is not good for independent music."

  5. Let me get this straight by richie2000 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Companies in the recording industry depend heavily on airplay for their artists. It boosts sales by encouraging listeners to buy their music and helps them climb the charts, which are based on airplay.
    Spitzer said Sony BMG's efforts to win more airplay took many forms, including outright bribes of cash and electronics to radio stations and paying for contest giveaways for listeners. In other cases, he said, Sony BMG used middlemen known as independent promoters to funnel cash to radio stations.

    So if a regular Joe spreads the word about a new song and induces many thousands of random people listen to it for free it's theft, but if a radio DJ does the exact same thing he gets paid? Riiight.

    Maybe Sony should just have those "independent promoters" run eDonkey clients instead. It'd be much cheaper.

    --
    Money for nothing, pix for free
    1. Re:Let me get this straight by shark72 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "So if a regular Joe spreads the word about a new song and induces many thousands of random people listen to it for free it's theft, but if a radio DJ does the exact same thing he gets paid? Riiight."

      The goal of record companies is, sadly, to make money. If I've already procured an MP3 of a song from Joe, I don't need to buy it -- I already have it. The record company (and the artist) make nothing. What, I'm going to voluntarily buy a copy of the album I've pirated, or go see the band in concert? Not bloody likely.

      However, there have been countless times that I've heard a song on XM and subsequently hunted it down on iTunes. When I did this, both the record company and the artist made money -- in fact, the artist made a little bit when the song was played on the radio.

      If publicity and exposure were the Alpha and the Omega and record companies and artists did not need to worry about making sales, then your logic would make perfect sense. There are plenty of unsigned bands who do freely use P2P services to distribute sample tracks. But if the intrinsic value of radio airplay is still boggling you, put yourself in the shoes of these bands and think about whether you'd also like some radio exposure in addition to all the kids P2Ping your stuff. Whether we like it or not, radio airplay is a big deal to up and coming artists.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    2. Re:Let me get this straight by irokie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      some would argue that the goal of record companies shouldn't be to make money, but to produce good music.
      some would argue that the goal of any company should be just like it is in all their mission statements... to strive for excellence in their chosen field.

      if you're good at what you do, the money should look after itself... look at google. they don't have a corporate culture that's all about money, sure, they've got people who make sure that they are making some money, but they focus more on making innovative products and actually enjoying the work that they do, and they're raking in the cash.

      --
      and if you see me strut, remind me of what left this outlaw torn...
    3. Re:Let me get this straight by BackInIraq · · Score: 3, Informative

      What, I'm going to voluntarily buy a copy of the album I've pirated, or go see the band in concert? Not bloody likely.

      Piracy hurts album sales, no doubt about it...though the effect is not as direct as the record companies would have you think. In the golden days of Napster, many people were buying CD's they had "sampled" online. Some, like myself and several of my friends, actually bought more music, because we had the opportunity to, from the comfort of our homes, listen to a huge variety of music that we might otherwise not have heard.

      I am not, however, trying to argue that P2P doesn't hurt album sales as you said...it does.

      But concert attendance? Not a chance. Most people who go see a concert already own the band's CD's. Downloading an album in MP3 is no subsitute for a live show...even downloading a FLAC of an entire concert set is not a substitute for being there. You'd have a hard time convincing most people that illegal downloading hurts ticket sales...and you'd have a relatively easy time showing that it might help ticket sales. People go see the bands because they heard, and liked, the albums...it doesn't matter if they heard it in legal or illegal form.

      From what I understand, the order goes like this: radio airplay is just an advertisement for the album (to the record company), and the album is just an advertisement for the concert (to the band).

  6. Good gesture... by Strokke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a good gesture to try to stop the corrupt radio business, but it will have very little effect. The corruption runs rampant, from low level DJ's to nationally syndicated shows, however unfortunately most is unknown.

    The bottom line is that having steady radio play is the key to selling albums, and when the the vast fortune of the music industry is at stake, dishonesty is inevitable. A VERY high percentage of Americans discover new music by hearing it on the radio, and a small fine (10 million? Ensuring that their arists get radio play has got to be worth at least 10x that) will do little to discourage the big labels.

  7. $10m fine? by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Makes me wonder how much they paid the Attorney General to keep the fine that low.

    --
    Beep beep.
  8. Meh - American Radio is beyond hope by sien · · Score: 5, Informative
    US TV, films etc are pretty good, but other than NPR American free to air Radio is beyond hope. Having one channel own almost all the stations is effective death.

    Payola, while unpleasant, is nothing to people who are carefully creating radio to only be sports, 80s hits and right wing shock jocks.

    But, fortunately, there is satelite with some variety but above all else the internet.

    Australian radio, in contrast to US radio, is vibrant, brilliant and is a good industrial subsidy for the Australian music industry (ever wonder where INXS, Midnight Oil and many others got their start?).

    If you want to check it out over the net check out JJJ, RRR, 3PBS and enjoy some streaming quality alternative interesting radio for a change.

    1. Re:Meh - American Radio is beyond hope by ciroknight · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I often wondered why Podcasting took off, and on the way home, I had to ride with a friend who happened to have a radio in his car (my Jeep explicitly doesn't, for a vast number of reasons).

      Anyways, I listened to the top 40 station in the region, and let's just say, I was not impressed. He then switched the radio to his iPod and listened to the a science news cast and a indie-top-40, and, the easest way to put it; I'm never listening to the radio again.

      --
      "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    2. Re:Meh - American Radio is beyond hope by donscarletti · · Score: 5, Informative
      Yes, Australian radio is absolutely brilliant. We have the always balanced and insightful John Laws and Alan Jones to bring enlightenment to us, we have the infinitely tallented Kyle and Jackie-O bringing us culture over the Austereo network who's stations in every capital city always play an ecclectic and always fresh selection of artistic music written by Australia and the World's most tallented musicians.

      Granted, I've never been to North America but I find it a little tricky to swallow that anyone could have music that makes our crappy radio sound "vibrant and brilliant". Sure, JJJ has integrity (as do all the ABC stations) but that's because it's federally funded explicitly to stop kids from becoming as much of idiots as they would have been if they turned on Nova instead. Australian radio sucks, and sucks hard.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    3. Re:Meh - American Radio is beyond hope by novakreo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Australian radio sucks, and sucks hard.

      Well that depends on where you live. Here in Melbourne, there's also the community radio stations PBS, Triple R, Joy, SYN-FM, and 3MBS, which more than make up for the drivel on Nova and co.

      --
      O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
  9. I've often wondered just why by SimianOverlord · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ..some music is so poor, yet so successful. Take, just off the top of my head, a Madonna track that was released for the Bond movie "Die Another Day". It was A list on the radio and got played at least once every 3 hours, and it was utterly appalling. Like, so bad I couldn't understand why anyone would listen to it, never mind buy it.

    I mean, music criticism is difficult because someone somewhere is going to see something in a track you might detest, but I'm pretty confident that 99% of the people who heard that track would think it was rubbish. But still it got on air, a lot.

    DJ's these days are totally shackled by the system, I think they have very little freedom on large stations to play music they actually like. It used to be that an "Indie" DJ played music they liked, and if they were actually a good DJ with discerning taste and access to a lot of new stuff, it was like a filtering process to find stuff old and new you would like. But listen to any commercial station and the music is essentially interchangeable, at least here in the UK.

    Anyway, talking of music that's overhyped and overpromoted, just read "most of modern R'n'B". The genre, with too few exceptions, requires little to no talent compared to too much arrogance and attitude. Recipe for success: a few hooks, some mediocre rapping and an effects/whore-heavy video. If it wasn't pushed so much, it wouldn't be popular.

    --
    Meine Schwester ist sehr, sehr reizvoll - Nietzsche
  10. The music industry is nuts by el_womble · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Individual likes music. Buys music. Distributes it to friends and family. Gets caught by the RIAA and gets slapped with a criminal record.

    Record company hates music, loves advertisments. Gets given music. Gives it away for free over an unencrypted medium to anyone who cares to listen. Gets given a huge 'bribe' by record company to keep doing this and the record company is a criminal.

    I know this is an over simplification, but this really is nuts.

    --
    Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
  11. What's wrong with payola? by ichin4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why exactly should this be illegal?

    If a DJ accepts a direct payment when his employment contract forbids it, that's breach of contract.

    If a radio station advertises that they don't accept payola, but they do, that's fraud.

    But if a radio station wants to make a strait-up pay-for-play deal with a record producer, why should the government care? If it really bothers listeners, a competitor can lure those listeners away by promising not to.

    There is the really lame argument that the airwaves are a public trust, but that just means the government was dumb enough not to auction them to the highest bidder.

    There is the only slightly less lame argument that music should compete on quality alone. But if the listeners don't care, and somebody has to be the popular band, why not the one that pays the most money?

    1. Re:What's wrong with payola? by bbrack · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is that is illegal, per the federal "payola laws"

      http://www.history-of-rock.com/payola.htm

      The laws are there to give independent labels, that aren't flush with cash, a chance vs. the large labels

    2. Re:What's wrong with payola? by niktemadur · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why exactly should this be illegal?

      That's an interesting question. Here's my two cents: The concept of collusion between two separate industries to manipulate the marketplace to their benefit.
      Sony Bertelsmann bumps the competition out of the way, and the radio industry gets to line its' pockets by the simple action of excluding independent record companies, filling their playlist with Sony Bertelsmann acts.

      Imagine this: Microsoft buys out all nationwide software retailers so that there's only Windows apps in their shelves. No Linux, no OSX, no nothing, only Windows. Sure, you can get your Linux apps through the Internet, or by driving to a mom-and-pop store across town. But it's still an unfair competitive edge, brought about by Microsoft's humongous resources that will only get bigger in this manner, and so it spirals ever deeper.

      The law, in theory, is there to protect the small guy from the bloated business monster with resources to burn in the pursuit of absolute control over everything.
      Inevitably, after a corporation grows to a certain bloated size, it seeks power for power's sake, which historically has proven to be detrimental to society at large. They might think they are playing a clever game of chess on a grand scale, but they are actually waging warfare against a community that does not have the resources to fight back. Just look at Wal-Mart. And what did Akio Morita say back in the day? "Business is warfare".

      Personally, I believe a basic mechanism to keep civilization running smoothly is to avoid allowing too much to accumulate in too few hands, and radio is no exception.

      I can think of many other arguments of why something like payola is wrong, but these are my thoughts on why it should be and remain illegal.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    3. Re:What's wrong with payola? by FlippyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you don't like what the station plays, listen to another.


      what if all the stations in your area all play the same music?
    4. Re:What's wrong with payola? by sbma44 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why exactly should this be illegal?

      Because, your declaration that it's "lame" notwithstanding, there are a limited number of available channels in a given market. Given that, it's not unreasonable to insist that channel owners refrain from committing a fraud against their audience. They exist to serve the public; not the other way around.

      Put it another way: we don't allow people to sell placebos as headache remedies. Ending up with a headache isn't the worst thing in the world, although it might distract someone from buying aspirin. And folks could probably figure out for themselves that the product isn't very good, if they could find enough time to critically evaluate it. But despite this, there just isn't a very compelling reason for allowing such quacks and con-men to continue preying upon people.

      I think you need to consider why we utilize the free market. It isn't some sort of pagan deity to be satisfied as an end unto itself; it's a means to an end.

    5. Re:What's wrong with payola? by crazdgamer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Payola is illegal because you're dealing with public airspace. You'd have to know how what the FCC's main function is to know why payola is unfair.

      Basically, payola wouldn't be illegal on a premium medium like satellite radio (if it is illegal, then it shouldn't be IMO).

      Basically, the FCC grants licenses to stations, and the FCC has pretty much total control over said license. If it doesn't like what the station is doing, the license can be suspended, removed, the station can be fined, etc. "Free market" doesn't exist in public radio per-se. Sure, it's free, but the FCC has so much control over the stations, it's would be hard to say the stations can do whatever they want, because they really can't.

      So, payola is bad because it gives what should be a public resource (radio airwaves) to the highest bidder, effectively shutting out many voices which should not be, since the practice of payola goes against what makes the medium a public one.

    6. Re:What's wrong with payola? by shish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Then listen to stations that aren't in your area --> shoutcast.com.

      --
      I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  12. Companies as legal personae by inmate · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I believe US law treats companies as legal personae, granting them similiar rights to people.
    Should a person break the law, they may well face a jail term.
    For a company, a jail sentence make sense. Who should be incarcerated? The executives?

    Perhaps we need to take a different approach - one which with credible and appropriate consequences.
    I suggest removing all copyrights on songs/artists that benefited from the payola crime.

    The starving artists themselves can claim damages against the company directly.

    --
    --- blackironprison, where ignorance is bliss....
    1. Re:Companies as legal personae by eclectro · · Score: 5, Funny

      I suggest removing all copyrights on songs/artists that benefited from the payola crime

      This implies that there is a congress that represents the public interests when it comes to copyright law.

      This, as you know (or should know), simply is not the case.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    2. Re:Companies as legal personae by a_nonamiss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, in the US, companies are NOT treated with similar rights as people. For exactly the reason you stated above (who do you punish?) corporations are often given MUCH more leeway to vio;ate the law than individuals. The sentence against Bernie Ebbers (Worldcom CEO) two weeks ago was a rare victory for the little guy, but in reality this was a sentence against one man for crimes that were orchestrated and carried out with cooperation and knowlege of hundreds if not thousands of people.

      Using this same logic companies every day spew out unfathomable amounts of illegal toxins. If they are caught, they pay a fine, (which they have already budgeted for) ratchet back their emissions, wait for a little while until the EPA gets off their backs, then resume their polluting. A factory farm here in Ohio (Buckeye Egg Farm) did this for over ten years amidst hundreds of complaints and clear violations of environmental laws before they were finally ordered to shut down operations. An individual in the US could not knowingly violate the law, all the while reaping huge profits, only to be told to stop after 10 years of activity. Corporations are given too much criminal protection.

      --
      -Arthur
      Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
    3. Re:Companies as legal personae by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If you "remove" the copyright, then there are no rights for the artist, and no damages. Maybe revoking the contract with the artist and having the copyright revert to the artist. Who will then just sign up with some other promotional company who will continue to pay the radio stations for airplay.

      This works the same way with retail stores. You want your product in the store? Expect to pay a "slotting fee" (bribe) of $50,000 or $100,000 for a large retailer. Just starting out and don't have that much? Sorry, there is no shelf space for your product. I'm sure this works the same way in Europe and Japan as well. Air time, shelf space, whatever - they are valuable commodities which can be sold. And they are.

    4. Re:Companies as legal personae by a_nonamiss · · Score: 2

      Mostly, no. I'm not saying that some of them didn't make it into my system indirectly, (restaraunt food, egg byproducts, etc.) however, I only consciously purchase certified organic eggs and milk. Sure, they're $2-$3 a dozen and $6 a gallon, respectively, but I don't use many eggs or milk, so it doesn't factor heavily into my budget.

      --
      -Arthur
      Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
  13. RIAA-RICO by gurutc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act... If the recording industry and the radio industry knowingly collude to perpetuate payola, how is it not covered by this act which has some real teeth?

    --
    Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
  14. What? Record companies hypocritical? by a_nonamiss · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't understand this. I thought that the record companies were supposed to be the shining beacons of morality! What with all their protecting the rights of the innocent and defenseless artists, they'd HAVE to be completely upright businessmen.

    I guess the moral is that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

    Meanwhile, I'm going to start downloading music again. :)

    --
    -Arthur
    Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
  15. Indie promotion is a joke. by b0r0din · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would argue that there really is no such thing as independant music being played on most stations. 'Indie promotion' is just another buzzword that makes it sound like it's creative and underground, which is far from the truth. Indie promotion is another word for payola. That's all it is. If there are a few indie promoters that can get some unknown band on the radio, they are very few and far between.

    And as far as station programmers choosing playlists, well I don't know enough about it to make a conclusion, but given the fact that where I live Clear channel owns both 'classic rock' stations and they both play pretty much the same playlist, I doubt the station managers have any control on what Clear Channel wants played. At any specific time I can turn on a Clear Channel station and be guaranteed to hear one of 3 AC/DC songs (who knew they only put out three songs?) or some old Aerosmith song.

    The music industry is stagnating right now. MTV has been useless for several years now, choosing to focus on reality television rather than music videos or innovative sound. Mom and pop radio stations have been bought out by the one or two monopolies left in broadcasting.

    And anyone that can tell me Lil' Jon is a musician with a straight face deserves a frickin Oscar. It's almost as if two music executives sat in a room together and made a bet that they could make millions off of a bum with no talent just from pure marketing hype alone.

    I think if there's anything that can make a big difference, it's a media-centered site like Apple's iTunes that has things like music videos, sampling, playlists, online radio stations. I can listen to more new bands in a week through iTunes than I ever heard introduced as a new band on a radio, in all the years I've been alive.

    1. Re:Indie promotion is a joke. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      And anyone that can tell me Lil' Jon is a musician with a straight face deserves a frickin Oscar.

      YEEEAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

    2. Re:Indie promotion is a joke. by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The answer you are looking for is - 89.3 The current by Minnesota Public radio. CD quality aacPlus no less. Yummy.

      Sera

      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
  16. Re:Why does it matter? by jonadab · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > I was trying to figure out why payola bothers Americans.

    It bothers people who would like to listen to the radio, because they're frustrated with the level of (ostensible) quality of the music played on most of the available stations. Those of us who gave up on radio decades ago don't care so much.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  17. Korea, man? by wild_berry · · Score: 2, Funny

    How's the e-mail thing working out for you, old chap?

  18. Hmm. NY. by E-Sabbath · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder if this is why the NY hard rock station, 92.3 WXRK, changed formats and has ditched nearly all music produced since '95 from the playlist.

    Currently, NY is completely without a modern rock station, leaving only pop Z-100 to play anything new.

  19. Wow! by jav1231 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some of the memo's are pretty revealing. FSN has a story on some of it. "We ordered a laptop for Donnie Michaels at WFLY in Albany. He has since moved to WHYI in Miami. We need to change the shipping address." One Sony memo from 2002: "Can you work with Donnie to see what kind of digital camera he wants us to order?" Looks like Rush was right: "glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity, yeah!"

  20. No sting -- Their wrists were already armored by Zordak · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Actually, the legal department is just a variable in the formula in this case (the quality of legal representation goes to probability of getting caught and fined). It's the bean counters that budgeted for this, and if they hadn't, they'd get fired. This is a case of profitable breach. We make $X billion dollars from doing this at the price of a $10M fine. It's obscenely profitable. There's no way this fine will curb the practice.

    As an aside, the next time you sneer in disgust at a greedy tort lawyer (the sneer is very deserved in some cases) and think about calling for sweeping reform of our "broken" tort system, remember that manufacturers do the same thing with product safety. Probability that it will hurt somebody times what it will cost us when it does. If that's less than the savings from making an unsafe product, they make the unsafe product. The reason they don't like lawyers (and especially juries) is because they're an uncontrolled element to the damages variable. Huge jury awards hurt them (and can actually drive changes in unsafe behavior) because they can't accurately budget for them. They have such a love affair with capped awards and forced arbitration because it makes it easier for them to lock down that variable and accurately measure the benefit of hurting people.

    --

    Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    1. Re:No sting -- Their wrists were already armored by BlueCodeWarrior · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just use IMDB like everyone else. I'm feeling generous today though, so here you go... Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator: You wouldn't believe. Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for? Narrator: A major one.

    2. Re:No sting -- Their wrists were already armored by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the large corporations of the music industry can get an image of "large tax provider" they will become more protected too. Effective DRM and an internet music tax would be ideal for this.

      This would be an interesting situation for the music industry. They could double their prices, give half of their new earnings to the tax collectors, get priviledged status (any laws that they wanted would be rubberstamped), and blame everything on music file downloaders.

      But this is not a good analogy with the tobacco industry. They sell an addictive drug primarily to the working class. Tobacco addicts have no real low-cost substitute. The music industry faces low cost CD-R and DVD-ROM blanks, where people can buy a $70 DVD burner and put 1000 songs on a single 40 cent blank DVD. Plus there are many sources of non-RIAA controlled music.

      Most of this non-RIAA music is not good, but that can be solved by putting out sampler disks (1000 songs by 300 bands on a low-cost DVD). Bands can also have websites where people can write them to explain why they don't like a song and upload examples of other songs that are similar but better. Imagine doing that with a major RIAA band selling millions of title disk. Think Mariah Carey cares that there's too much pseudo-gospel non-verbal 'ooo' and 'ohh'-ing on her tracks? Goodness no, she does what the producer tells her to.

    3. Re:No sting -- Their wrists were already armored by jurv!s · · Score: 2, Informative

      I definitely recommend that everyone see fight club and no, it was definitely not supposed to be funny. The main character becomes disillusioned with the bullshit of modern life and seeks to return society to a more primitive, visceral form of living. An interesting movie to say the least.

      --
      sigs are for fools and trolls. no signature is *always* appropriate. you should turn them off in your preferences.
  21. payola for radio, but fines for p2p! by brainburger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's funny that the music industry will actually pay out money sneakily to get airplay via the radio and tv, to boost sales, but for some reason airplay via p2p services can only damage their sales.
    Of course p2p could result in the listeners having a permanent copy, but so can radio and tv.
    - And then there are all the streamripping and peercasting options to grey-out the difference even more.

    1. Re:payola for radio, but fines for p2p! by 87C751 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's funny that the music industry will actually pay out money sneakily to get airplay via the radio and tv, to boost sales, but for some reason airplay via p2p services can only damage their sales.
      It's because P2P services are uncontrolled, so they don't focus the "promotion" on the commodity acts from which the Big 5 make the most money. (or, alternatively, P2P exposes the filler material surrounding the one presumably palattable track on a given release) So P2P does damage sales, but by exposing the crap material and allowing informed choice by the potential purchaser.

      The obvious response would be for the Big 5 to produce more quality output, but given Sturgeon's Paradox (90% of everything is crap, but that 90% varies by individual), that would mean much more expense for the companies to find and expose real talent. For their bottom line, it's much more efficient to just convince the market that Brittney is what they like. But to do that, they have to maintain a stranglehold on the market and suppress alternatives.

      --
      Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
  22. Re:Why does it matter? by Alien+Being · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Imagine if they said, "this next Madonna song was sponsored by EMI."

    That would make the music show a defacto advertisement. People would tune out in droves. By hiding the money, they can make an ad seem like a music show.

    Listeners don't like being lied to, and given that the airwaves belong to them, they have a right to honesty.

    Honest artists and producers don't like it because it's anticompetetive. Implicit in the deal that "you will play *our* music more" is the undeniable fact that "you will play *their* music less".

    What amazes me, is that they've been getting away with the "new payola" for so long now. I think it's fair to say that the reason "popular" music sucks so bad is that most of it doesn't become popular on its own merit. Its popularity is engineered in boardrooms.

  23. Hypocritcal actions of the industry by skidz7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Against a clear backdrop of what is right and what is wrong - what is legal and what is illegal - it is as important now as ever to encourage our fans do the right thing" - Cary Sherman, President of the RIAA Perhaps a good way would be to lead by example....

  24. NY AG by Dolphineus53 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Payola is nothing new. Anyone who is surprised that this is going on was just unaware that the practice has been around as long as radio.

    My big question is this ... when is New York state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer running for a bigger office? He seems to have a knack for getting headlines with high profile cases that get everyone all fired up.

    From http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/w ire/sns-ap-clinton-2006,0,1068438.story?coll=sns-a p-nation-headlines
    the poll showed state Attorney General Eliot Spitzer continuing to hold a double-digit lead over the three-term governor in a possible matchup for the 2006 gubernatorial campaign.

  25. Re:Possible solution: by muellerr1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Minnesota Public Radio has recently started one of the best alternative radio stations I've heard, 89.3. It's completely listener (and NPR, to some extent) supported, so there aren't any ads and the DJs seem to be able to play whatever they want, judging by the fact that I've never heard the same song twice. Ever.

    I believe that public radio is the only way to get good songs on the air, because they're listener-supported and not just corporate shills.

    Government funding for public television and radio is under attack by Republicans pretending to 'restore balance' when in reality the American public doesn't think there's any bias; the real goal is to take away government funding, which will kill much of the programming. Fucking shame.

  26. Re: agree/disagree by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The music industry is stagnating right now. MTV has been useless for several years now, choosing to focus on reality television rather than music videos or innovative sound. Mom and pop radio stations have been bought out by the one or two monopolies left in broadcasting.

    The same thing has been said about music since at least the days of Elvis, and I'm guessing there have been discussions like this since there were room for musicians and critics.

    Erm. . . I had a revelation halfway through the post. You're referring to the industry not music itself.
    I agree, mostly. The monolithic companies that control most of the music industry are pretty much what you'd expect from a monolith - controlled by inertia, and slow to react.
    The key difference is found where music is really progressing - not in the Clear Channel approved acts but the other stuff that gets no radio play. Look to Ani DiFranco for an example of an artist who is 100% independent. Look to Eighteenth Street Lounge recordings for a small label with huge distribution, and tons of radio play worldwide. (not so much in the US, due to payola and the like).

    So I guess we agree. Traditional model - bad and failing. New models - good.

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
  27. Mod Parent Down by Illserve · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Eliot Spitzer is idealistic and ruthless in his pursuit of corruption.

    The idea that he would accept bribes is ludicrous, not to mention stupid. In his high profile position, he would surely be found out.

  28. What happened to freedom? by geekee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I ran a radio station, I'd make people pay me to play their music. They sell songs to people who like them because they heard them on the radio. Why should I pay them to play the songs on the radio, to help them make money? I'd pick music that fit the format, of course, to keep listeners happy, but then only those who paid would get airplay. Then there would be no need to waste listener's time playing commercials. Why should it be illegal for me to do this? What happened to freedom in this country?

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  29. (Slight OT) Re:Of course it's a slap on the wrist! by mickwd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "In both cases, it's up to the people to truly solve the problem, the government can't do it for them."

    But the whole reason for governments to exist (democratic governments, at least) is to solve the problems of the society they govern. That's why they exist. In order to do what they do, they levy taxes. That's why you pay taxes.

    Yes, most governments may be very inefficient, and often corrupt, but what they are in a democracy is the expression of the way a society that society, rightly or wrongly, thinks it should be governed.

    Put it this way - if the people of a country got together to choose a small group of people to represent their wishes and run the country the way they wish it to be run, what else would they have formed but a government?

  30. People are suprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone who's ever tried to get a song on the radio knows that payola is alive and well.

    I play in a local rock band. There's a small radio station in the next county north of where I live (they've got about a 20 mile broadcast radius). When we put out our first album we tried to get on their show that showcases "local" bands. Talking to the program director didn't get us anywhere. After being turned down a couple of times the guitar player and I ran into the DJ that hosts the local band show on the radio at a bar we were playing. He really liked our stuff so we gave him a free CD. When we asked if it would be possible to get it on his show he laughed and told us that we had to buy the $2,500 "advertising" package at the station before the program director would even listen to a song off of the CD.

    I'm not suprised that Sony is involved in Payola. What I am suprised at is that they were caught doing it directly. There are "promotion" companies out there that exist only to act as middle-men between the labels and the stations. After talking to the DJ we poked around and found a promoter that works in Chicago (our general area). Let's just say they're not hard to find. For $10,000 he would guarantee us airplay at a major radio station in the Chicago market.

    Oh, and Zardo, not to disparage your friend at all but he knew it was illegal. Even when I was doing college radio we were all made well aware of it and the possible consequences. In reality it's more of a "wink, wink" in the industry because everybody does it. Sony definately got a slap on the wrist. These stories come out every few years so the industry can say that they're cracking down.