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EFF Requests Help to Identify "Evil" Printers

jason writes "In preparation for a possible legal challenge, The Electronic Frontiers Foundation is requesting your help in identifying which printers are embedding traceable information in the documents they produce. Printer manufactures added this technology under persuasion from the government inorder to help combat counterfeiting operations, however this technology defeats the presumed anonymity most people expect from the documents they print."

150 of 770 comments (clear)

  1. Tinfoil printouts by banglogic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From TFA:

    The millimeter-sized dots appear about every inch on a page, nestled within the printed words and margins.

    Can anyone produce a human-readable example of this?
    Perhaps it's time to unfold my tinfoil hat and use it to cover my printouts instead.

    --
    Bang Logic - Serious Small Business Services
    1. Re:Tinfoil printouts by redelm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Millimeter sized? Hell, I'd think a printer was dirty or something. Those are awfully big and noticable.?

    2. Re:Tinfoil printouts by billdar · · Score: 5, Informative
      Our xerox does this... I just followed the instructions in TFA:

      The dots' minuscule size, covering less than one-thousandth of the page, along with their color combination of yellow on white, makes them invisible to the naked eye, Crean says. One way to determine if your color laser is applying this tracking process is to shine a blue LED light--say, from a keychain laser flashlight--on your page and use a magnifier.

      --
      I am billdar, and I approve this message.
    3. Re:Tinfoil printouts by chriso11 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you want to print something sensitive, perhaps you could create a yellow background for the document... unless the driver is smart enough to do something else in that condition.

      --
      No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
    4. Re:Tinfoil printouts by orthogonal · · Score: 5, Interesting
      According the EFF, for Xerox( but not Canon) printers, it looks like this:
      For Xerox documents, within the 0.5" by 1" rectangular space, 8 x 15 = 120 locations exist for printers to print yellow tracking dots. Consider the following pattern found on test00-template, printed on a Xerox DocuColor 12 located at FedEx Kinko's, 201 Sacramento Street, San Francisco, CA.


      (The Slashdot "lameness" filter prevents me from posting the entire diagram.)

      Now it seems to me that Open Source has an answer for this. Can we patch Xerox printer drivers so that they automatically print the yellow dot at all 120 locations, making each page bear a fake serial number of "FF FF FF ..."?

      Or if the drivers aren't open source, can we write proxy printer drivers that add the dots and then forward to the real Xerox print driver?

      Who'll take on this challenge? (Preferably a good linux coder who isn't a US citizen or resident.)

    5. Re:Tinfoil printouts by orthogonal · · Score: 3, Informative
      "It's likely done at a hardware level, or more specifically firmware."

      Sure, the serial number is printed at the hardware level as a partially-filled array of yellow dots:

      X_XXX__XX_X_X_X <-- printer "A"'s a binary bit pattern of Xs that gives a serial number of 23765 decimal

      X_XXX_X__XXXX_X <-- printer "B"'s a binary bit pattern of Xs gives a serial number of 23869 decimal



      I'm suggesting at the software level (in a driver) we direct the printer to fill the whole array. This will make the serial number unreadable, by giving all printers using the driver a completely filled and indistinguishable array:

      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <-- Printer "A"'s pattern with the driver filling in all the dots now gives a fake serial number of 32767

      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <-- Printer "B"'s pattern with the driver filling in all the dots also gives the same fake serial number of 32767

    6. Re:Tinfoil printouts by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If the printer already has firmware that can detect different kinds of currency and other financial instruments, I predict it has also been setup to detect attempts to bypass the identity mechanism (a lot easier).

      No, I think we need to look for ways to influence the behaviour of the firmware itself. Some printers may well have mechanisms to patch firmware (maybe even a specific 'set serial' function). Others may have a code to turn the identity function off.

      Do NSA printers exhibit the same behaviour?

    7. Re:Tinfoil printouts by Cali+Thalen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably less than 1mm, and you wouldn't probably notice it.

      The Lexmark Optra N I'd used for several years at work turned out to be one of these. VERY faint yellow dots on the white parts of the border (I didn't test it on anything full-bleed though, so no idea what it would look like under those circumstances).

      I'd used that printer for light-to-moderate graphics work for a long time, and never noticed. Heck, I barely noticed when I knew what to look for, but it was most certainly there.

      --
      Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
    8. Re:Tinfoil printouts by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem here is that a smart designer would think of that ahead of time.

      Here's what I'd do if I designed the printer:

      Encode the yellow-dot serial into a solid black part of the image. Even if yellow is printed over black, it should be possible by close examination (or perhaps the variable wavelength lightsource method sthat police/investigators use to examine forged documents) to see the yellow-dot pattern overtop (or inside) of the black part of the image.

      And if you send that part of the image to the printer as "black", it's not going to have any yellow background or any other toner colour to interfere with whatever serial number the printer is laying-down.

      N.

      --
      "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
    9. Re:Tinfoil printouts by orthogonal · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Do NSA printers exhibit the same behaviour?"

      I dunno about NSA printers, but I hear that White House printers add a footer:

      "Psst: Valerie Plame, er, that is, Ambassador Wilson's wife is a CIA agent -- but you didn't hear it from us!

    10. Re:Tinfoil printouts by gg3po · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not just take out the color cartridge and then print anything "subversive" in black and white? Let them try getting yellow ink out of a non-existant cartridge.

      --
      ---
    11. Re:Tinfoil printouts by jrockway · · Score: 2, Funny

      You're saying that instead of using the yellow toner from the yellow toner cartridge, they're using color-changing fairy dust pulled from thin air?

      Somehow, I doubt that.

      --
      My other car is first.
    12. Re:Tinfoil printouts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your theory doesn't work.

      I checked out the dots on my work printer with a magnifying glass and sure enough, they were there.

      I then found the serial number written on the side of the machine and wrote over the label with a new serial number (using your example of 32767).

      Unfortunately, printing out more pages still produces the same dots.

    13. Re:Tinfoil printouts by nick13245 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What if you run out of yellow ink?

    14. Re:Tinfoil printouts by Ignominious · · Score: 2, Funny

      What if you run out of yellow ink?

      Warning citizen, your Lexmark printer will soon become unpatriotic - please replace the *yellow* cartridge before further printing.

  2. Do as I say, not as I do by A+Boy+and+His+Blob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if the government will be using these printers themselves, they have more to hide than anyone else. Now when a confidential document is leaked it can be more easily tied to a government official.

    1. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by protoshoggoth · · Score: 2

      Just be sure to print your whistleblower memos on a black-and-white laser, not a color one.

    2. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I wonder if the government will be using these printers themselves, they have more to hide than anyone else.

      Which is exactly why it should be REQUIRED for all government offices, and optional for citizens. Remember, "Where the people fear their government, there is tyranny, where the government fears its people, there is Liberty." - T. Jefferson (? sorry, quote's off the top of my head)

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    3. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by ObjetDart · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I wonder if the government will be using these printers themselves, they have more to hide than anyone else. Now when a confidential document is leaked it can be more easily tied to a government official.

      There was an interview on NPR a few weeks ago with Michael Smith, the British journalist who uncovered the "Downing Street Memo." He said that governments already do this: when a classified document is distributed, they often introduce subtle changes in wording from one copy to the next, so that each person receives a very slightly different copy. That way, in theory if the document is leaked, they can figure out who leaked it.

      --
      I read Usenet for the articles.
    4. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Xerox machine might also have this ID tech built in.

      The toner from a laser printer or copy machine is a kind of plastic. There must be some lithography technique which would use that property as the basis of a low-tech copy method.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by Dominatus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't make a spec of difference, unless you are extremely extremely lucky.

      Each copy is only subtly different, and even if you change yours, youre not going to change BACK any of the changes they made unless youre extremely lucky, to the point of impossible. If they find the copied document, they know all the changes you made because, well, they didnt make them. Thus leaving your original copy intact.

    6. Re:Do as I say, not as I do by InvalidError · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But the Xerox ID is not necessarily linked to the original document's origin so unless the copier extracts the dots from the original documents and somehow replicates them on the copy, the means to determine with reasonable proof the most likely origin through ID is lost.

      If a compromising Bush document is printed on a White House colour laser printer then Xerox'd at a local pharmacy before mailing the copy or simply faxing, the exact origin is most likely lost.

      Worst case, buy yellow transparent film if you do not want to take any chances. If the whole page is filtered to be yellow, it makes the equipment's job of picking it up much tougher, assuming said equipment actually tries to pick them up.

  3. "Evil" Printers? by goldspider · · Score: 4, Funny

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

    (I got it first!!!)

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:"Evil" Printers? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Im sorry, but the word 'evil' is really being used far too much on slashdot to talk about stuff that isnt evil in anyway, shape or form. It reminds me of the RIAAs usage of the word 'steal', and both parties are using the words wrongly to provide a very specific view in other peoples minds of things that they personally do not like IMHO.

    2. Re:"Evil" Printers? by Suppafly · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except the Evil is subjective and Steal has a definite meaning.

    3. Re:"Evil" Printers? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They both have definite meanings. What you mean is, "'Evil' doesn't have a legal definition and 'steal' does."

      Don't confuse legality and morality; they are unrelated.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  4. Snakeoil? by matt21811 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Crean describes the device as a chip located "way in the machine, right near the laser" that embeds the dots when the document "is about 20 billionths of a second" from printing.

    "Standard mischief won't get you around it," Crean adds." .

    Sounds like your classical security through obscurity bluster. It is probably not that hard to bypass at all using no more than a chewing gum wrapper and a paperclip. The best way to defeat this might not be legally but instead with some simple FAQ's on the internet describing how to disable the "feature".

    Can someone work out how to do this please.

    1. Re:Snakeoil? by Pxtl · · Score: 4, Funny

      If it's behind the laser window, you're screwed. Optics are touchy to a level that can only be described as premenstrual.

  5. I understand now! by ErikTheRed · · Score: 4, Funny

    This explains all of the random pin-misfires I'm having on my dot-matrix printer! Thank God that it's just my government protecting me from terrorists^H^H^H counterfeiters.

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
  6. Here's one by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Funny

    My old Epson LX: printouts are so atrocious you just know they come from an LX: they embed the printer model in the form of smears and distortion in the text.

    Then again, I just use it to print listings, it's not exactly photo-quality...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  7. Finding Evil Printers by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Finding Evil Printers should be easy. Just test for the Evil Bit.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  8. Dead giveaways by winkydink · · Score: 4, Funny

    The print heads rotate 360 degrees while ejecting green ink at great force and saying, "your mother svcks cocks in hell".

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  9. Hmmm... by TheOtherAgentM · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let me go ahead and print those model names out for you. Oh no! They know now!

  10. Getting the word out by rocketman768 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    EFF deserves a bit of respect for this. They're trying to let everyone else know what companies are doing behind their little white walls to lock you down. Personally, I'm going to make a donation right now to EFF. They need some big-time exposure to change the normal cow-like brainless mob of AOL users into intelligent thinkers.

    1. Re:Getting the word out by Shadez666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Turning AOL'ers into thinking beings would require one mother of a donation!

    2. Re:Getting the word out by ntk · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not true that the EFF "only cares about the US", although its true the core of our expertise is in that country. We now have three people working on international issues. Cory Doctorow works in Europe; Gwen Hinze, an Australian, works on WIPO and free trade agreement issues. Ren Bucholz has just moved up to Canada and will shortly be taking on the job of policies in the Americas.

      And EF Canada *is* still around.

  11. Do an exchange... by tktk · · Score: 5, Funny
    If you think you've done something illegal or just don't want to be tracked, I'll take the fall for you.

    Send your current model color laser printer to me. I'll even send you a 7 year old inkjet that I currently use as a footrest.

  12. Ah, this explains everything by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Funny
    If not everything, at least it explains why the Bush National Guard documents were retyped in Microsoft Word with default settings.

    Without a doubt those Selectric[tm] typewriters circa 1969 all had type balls with tiny imperfections to let them be identified if ever used to leak documents potentially affecting a presidential election. Whereas Microsoft would never stoop to putting personally identifiable information into Word document files, or print to printers that weren't at least as evil as they are.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  13. Epson 1280 photo printer by joejoejoejoe · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think my Epson 1280 does.

    If I print anything, even one line of text from notepad, it will print the text, advance the sheet of paper most of the way, print something else you can't really see, then spit out the paper.

    I think this is a good test. If you are printing only to the top of the page, and then it appears to spend time printing where you had no text, you've got one of these...

    -Joejoejoejoe

    --
    Silly Rabbit: tricks are for kids.
    1. Re:Epson 1280 photo printer by harrkev · · Score: 2, Informative

      The article is specifically about laser printers. And you cannot tell if a laser printer is doing this or not, as there is no physical "print head" to move around.

      Ink-jet printers are usually very dumb. So any mischief is done in the driver software.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
  14. A good protection against this by jurt1235 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Use bad quality paper, the version which always smudges the ink a little. That will make super small print into super small smudge.

    --

    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
    1. Re:A good protection against this by jrockway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The article is about laser printers, which don't use ink.

      --
      My other car is first.
  15. Re:very informative by matt21811 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Err no, they ask for "you to print and send us test sheets from your color laser printer and/or a color laser printer at your local print shop."

    Not to figure out how to disable it.

  16. Stupid question but... by Pakaran2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How exactly is this supposed to work? I buy a printer with cash from Office Max, take it home, and print some phony money. The money is reported to the secret service, which takes it to the printer manufacturer, which tells them that the printer was shipped to an Office Max in my town.

    Assume I had the common sense to only use the printer for counterfeiting. What exactly do they do now? Get a warrant for every house within 50 miles of said Office Max, and check the serial number on all the printers?

    1. Re:Stupid question but... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes, but when they start checking around and eventually find that you own such a printer, and that you refuse to let them examine said printer, they get a warrant and find that indeed it is YOUR printer that printed the bills.

      Perhaps one day, the use of "cash" will be illegal.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    2. Re:Stupid question but... by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, they simply look at the register for when this thing was sold, then check the security cameras. Unless you bought this thing with a mask on, I bet they now have a photograph of you. Tie it to security cameras of where the bill was passed, and you've got a hard case against someone counterfiting.

      On the flip side, apply this to someone who leaks secret yet damaging information about whatever government institution in an anonymous letter to the Washington Post. The Post is forced to give up the original (as they are similarly forced to give up sources), and the similar process is repeated, although now you're seen as a national security threat and thrown in whatever gulag seems appropriate. I guess you just need to B&W Xerox whatever damning flyers you want to send out, lest those yellow dots track you down!

    3. Re:Stupid question but... by purduephotog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Say the cashier remembers you because she thought you were cute. ... or scary. ... or nervous.

      Say there are CCTV tapes that still exist; each is checked for the POS timestamp. Each face is added to a 'question' list. You get a knock on your door when someone recognizes you or from your drivers license photo.

      Say you left fingerprints on the paper you used to print the bogus green backs.

      Say you go to stock up on Green Dye number 5 and trigger an alert clerk to write down your license plate, since the Feds had already passed out flyers stating to be on the lookout for individuals purchasing large quantities of this ink as it was used to finance terrorism (we all want to help, right?). Never mind the cash reward.

      Say you buy more quality linen paper reams and someone notes the sale within 200 miles of your OD.

      Say they just get damn lucky and lookup your slashdot ID.

      There are hundreds of ways to screw up when you've broke the law. They just need one break. You need a perfect record of not making one.

    4. Re:Stupid question but... by blackmonday · · Score: 3, Informative

      What makes you think a driver can't call home and register your IP Address to the printer serial number? OR - maybe you sent in a mail in rebate for the printer? Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you.

    5. Re:Stupid question but... by taskforce · · Score: 2, Insightful
      No, more like: You buy a printer with cash from Office Max, take it home and print some money. Through other means, they bust you can raid your house, confiscating your print studio. They take samples of the cash you're alleged to have printed and check to see if the dots match up with the printer.

      Not an ideal, end all solution, but it does help a little bit in getting a conviction if they have something to tie you to the money which you could otherwise just deny having even seen/printed.

      --
      My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
    6. Re:Stupid question but... by chef_raekwon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you have hit the issue square on the head. This is the reason to not fear this. The printer tracking has been put into printers for many years (over 12) --- it is only starting to make its way into smaller sized inkjets, lasers.

      The main concept is for high yield counterfeiters -- in the past the only way to get a very close copy was to use a 300,000$ machine. This makes tracking simpler for the government, as any machine sold for that amount, is 99% under a service contract. Some machines have ROM built in, to recognize bills, and shutdown/report error. (something like E5004) The Tech's service manual says to 'Contact the Authorities.'

      so, in essence, it is now bleeding down as printer tech gets better. imagine trying to track anything but conterfeit money, with this tracking. needle in the proverbial haystack.

      --
      We're like rats, in some experiment! -- George Costanza
    7. Re:Stupid question but... by Yebyen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Assume I had the common sense to only use the printer for counterfeiting.

      Stop right there... this is the flaw in your argument. Common sense is in fact a fallacy, there is no such thing.

      Actually, most of the protection technology that the government mandates for consumer devices is not for catching hardcore criminals. It really is there to keep us mere plebes in check -- if John Q Public blows $500 of his wife's hard earned money at the strip club, he might try to hide it by printing out a sheet of $20 bills and passing them for groceries once or twice. When the cops inevitably show up, he's going to keep his mouth shut, and he might get away with it if not for the tracking tech. He didn't buy his printer to make a career out of counterfeiting money, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't try it once.

      The real bad-guys are not going to print money with a $99 inkjet they bought at Office Max. Uncle Benny has a warehouse full of highly researched and controlled technology. He's going to smuggle the Hong family straight in from China to slave over the printing presses. He knows about all of the protection technology built into the currency, and he wants the bills to be just right, so the money has a fighting chance of slipping past the eye of a secret service agent.

      What does this mean for you and I? Hard to say. Does the government have evil intentions? Do they intend to track political dissenters? There's no telling for sure, but the possibility exists that they could. All I know for sure is that I will be pasting magazine clippings together to announce the next few Weekly Jihad Society meetings.

      --
      Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
    8. Re:Stupid question but... by gardyloo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Guy With Scream Mask: "Um... How about I pay in cash. Got change for a Canadian thousand dollar bill?"

            Yeah, Epsons can be cheap, but that's not nearly going to cover ink.

  17. Re:The first thing I think about.... by Trigun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Print out a letter to a congressman, or even better, one about a certain CIA agent who's husband doesn't want to toe the political line, or an e-mail saying who was responsible for the aforementioned leak, and tell me that it won't be a bit tempting to track it down, even if there was no actual crime committed.

  18. I Wonder by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    You might be able to see the small, scattered yellow dots printed there that could be used to trace the document back to you...put the "serial number of each machine coded in little yellow dots" in every printout. The millimeter-sized dots appear about every inch on a page, nestled within the printed words and margins.

    And here I was thinking all along that it was just a crappy printer that messed up every inch or so.

    Maybe I could add a few more of mine in Photoshop just to make things more interesting.

    Better that than suggesting that Xerox (and Canon and HP) should be shot for caving into foreign governments who use this to suppress free speech, all the while not telling us that they're doing it.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  19. Umm... by HyperChicken · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who cares? So the government could possibly link the printout from MapQuest, cheats for Grand Theft Auto, and Timmy's Amazon wishlist that I threw away came from my printer. Big deal.

    The only time when I can see this being useful to the Government is if I'm doing something wrong. You know, harassing my ex, threatening the President, and that junk.

    --
    Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
    1. Re:Umm... by neurojab · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only time when I can see this being useful to the Government is if I'm doing something wrong. You know, harassing my ex, threatening the President, and that junk.

      So, in your view, privacy is unimportant unless you have something to hide? In that same vein, if you want privacy, are you automatically a criminal?

      Let's say the government wants to put a chip in your car that tracks your movements ("to fight terrrorism"), Do you have anything to hide then? Perhaps you're going to terrorist school... shouldn't the cops know about that? Why not place the chip directly in your arm just to be safe? Why not, then have everyone get permission from the government to move around the country? If they have nothing to hide, why should it be trouble to ask for permission? Why should people protest the actions of the government if they love their country? Perhaps they are criminals too.

      The invasion of privacy is something we must always fight, because it's a slippery slope, and we will never get back what we once had. The loss of privacy means the death of democracy.

    2. Re:Umm... by loqi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only if the loss of privacy is one-way.

      --
      If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
  20. Evil Printers... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What kind of evil are we talking about here? The kind where replacement cartridges cost more than the printer itself? Or drivers that are fully supported under Windows but Linux requires black magic to work? Or that cables are not included?

    It's nice to see the EFF trying to stamp out the evil printers. But there's a lot of work to be done.

  21. Re:This might help out my business... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Funny

    It reminds me of the old joke (or was it true?):

    Some amateur counterfeiter was driving around the Appalachians to find some hillbillies to swindle. He found a couple of dumb-looking guys sitting on their front porch, stopped the car and said, waving a freshly printed note: "any of you guys have change for a $18 bill?". One of the guys reach in his pocket and says: "sure, d'ya want 2 nines or 3 sixes?"

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  22. Ask Publius about this by orthogonal · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article: "Lorelei Pagano, a counterfeiting specialist with the U.S. Secret Service, stresses that the government uses the embedded serial numbers only when alerted to a forgery. "The only time any information is gained from these documents is purely in [the case of] a criminal act," she says."

    Somebody ask
    • Alexander Hamilton (later the first Secretary of the Treasury of the United States, the same Treasury that Lorelei Pagano now works for),
    • James Madison (later fourth President of The United States), or
    • John Jay (later first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court)
    why they published the Federalist Papers anonymously under the name "Publius".

    Ask them if they'd have been able to write the these brilliant arguments that shaped the Constitution of the United States of America if the very paper they'd printed it on could have been used to strip then of their anonymity?

    Could they have made their arguments as forcefully, would they have allowed their ideas to have been so revolutionary, if they had known any political opponent could trace those papers back to them, perhaps deny them jobs or political offices because of disagreement with their ideas?

    Would we even have the Constitution that we have today if these great men had not been able to use the pen-name "Publius"?


    Hamilton and Madison and Jay forged (ahem) our Constitution in anonymity, but counterfeiting specialist Lorelei Pagano tells us that those three silly boys didn't need their anonymity? That in order to be safe from counterfeiters, we have to give up our right to anonymous politically agitation?

    How much more security can this country -- this nation conceived in anonymity -- survive?

    1. Re:Ask Publius about this by Peyna · · Score: 2, Informative


      How much more security can this country -- this nation conceived in anonymity -- survive?


      The Federalist Papers were printed to pursuade states to ratify the Constitution, after it was already written.

      The Constitution itself was not written anonymously, everyone knew who wrote it and who was at the convention.

      The same goes for The Declaration of Independence.

      The country was not conceived in anonymity, but it did manage to ratify its constitution by anonymously convincing some people to vote for it.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Ask Publius about this by Fess_Longhair · · Score: 2, Informative
      The Federalist Papers, at the time they were written, were an advertising campaign meant to sway the electorate to support the constitution. Although they were published under an alias, the authors were widely known. In the end, the marketing campaign didn't work, and it was only once several other key states ratified that NY caved (FP was aimed at NYers). The Constitutional Congress, where the original draft of the Constitution was debated, was not anonymously attended, although the minutes were not publically released (the tin foil hat crowd would have gone wild).

      So, yes, we would likely still have a constitution if Hamilton et al. could not publish under an alias.

    3. Re:Ask Publius about this by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It all just goes to show that there is never rest from those that would seek to remove our rights and freedoms.

      It's really hard to get the masses to understand that we need these rights and freedoms even if we, at the given moment, aren't actually using them. There will come a day. I don't own a gun but I have the right to bear arms and I love that right. Hope it never goes away.

  23. Like, say, printing flyers for a protest? by adb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This administration is neither the first nor the last one to use law enforcement officers to harrass the opposition. Practical freedom of the press is undermined when it is too hard to write anonymously.

  24. Re:The first thing I think about.... by Trigun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't make it any less true.

    You want to stop counterfitters? Design real money, instead of the single-colour, same sized bills that they keep making. Take the mom-and-pop operations out of the picture, then work on the foreign governments, and organized criminals.

  25. Re:You know it's a government operation by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Interesting
    probably totally destroyed by simply making a low-res photocopy of the document in question.

    And there is where they catch you, since photocoiers do this as well. In fact, modern copiers also have "currenty detectors" to prevent money copying, some won't print particular shades like the green of US currency, and many use the same print engines as the printers, so expect this "secret chip" inside them as well.

    What I'm wondering is, what is the chance the chip is an EPROM that is burned with the model and serial number. Then consider:

    1: Remove chip.
    2: Program in new number.
    3: Re-insert chip that printer won't run without.
    4: PROFIT!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  26. For once that "Soviet Russia" thing applies by doublem · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Back during the Cold War, anyone who owned a typewriter was required to submit a typing sample to the government. The idea was to create a database so to assist in tracking any given document to a specific typewriter.

    The US Government has removed the ambiguity from this process, and made it far easier to definitely tie a document to a printer.

    Well, except for the fact that I'm sure the government has a couple printers lying around that can add whatever serial number and printer model they want.

    --
    "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    1. Re:For once that "Soviet Russia" thing applies by werfele · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Back during the Cold War, anyone who owned a typewriter was required to submit a typing sample to the government.
      I bought one manual and two electric typewriters during the cold war, and was never asked for a sample. You probably have in mind the 50s, and not the late 70s and 80s, but while I have no first hand knowledge, I don't think they went so far as to get a sample from everyone with a typewriter. Obtaining a sample was an evidentiary technique used against someone who was already charged or suspected, however.

      Just this sort of evidence was famously used to convict Alger Hiss of perjury, in connection with his espionage trial, which is very relevant to your last point. While Alger Hiss's actual innocence is somewhat controversial (and maybe unlikely), it is pretty clear that the government fabricated a typewriter to match the type on the documents in question (and went on to introduce the fabricated typewriter as Hiss's during the trial). The mere ability of the government to claim to be able to able to match a document with its source could, perhaps, lend itself to similar abuses in the future.

  27. Defeats the presumed anonymity.. by lelitsch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do "most people expect anonymity from the documents they print?"

    Printed pages are NEVER anonymous. Apart from fingerprints, DNA traces, ink and paper matching, how many people print stuff that they pass out anonymously? Most letters have a sender, books and other prints have a copyright note. And once you distribute any printed materials, others can trace it back.

    If you go to the trouble to buy the printed at Best Buy at a best buy 500 miles from your home with cash that you got from a bank while wearing a full body condom and face mask, don't transport it in your car, and keep it in a clean room at an anonymous location, I agree that you probably expect privacy. But at that point, you have probably been arrested as a weirdo somewhere along the way.

  28. I like the bottom of the article by I+don't+want+to+spen · · Score: 2, Funny
    There's a link to a 'printer friendly' version. If they'd just have a link to a 'printer evil' version it would be easy ...

    Would it be possible to find out the yellow colour of the dots and use this as a background for all of your documents? Sure, it would waste ink, but unless they XOR the code, it should work.

    --
    Don't go to a brothel if you want to buy broth
  29. Re:You know it's a government operation by amliebsch · · Score: 2, Insightful
    but in practice probably totally destroyed by simply making a low-res photocopy of the document in question.

    I'd just like to point out that if it forces you to make a low-res photocopy of your counterfeit currency, you either aren't going to be able to use it successfully or will be easily caught. Therefore, the system will have worked as it was intended, and you will have destroyed nothing.

    --
    If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  30. I work for a manufacturer by YttriumOxide · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work for a large printer/copier manufacturer in the technical services area (IT related) and can confirm we've been doing this for MANY years in our colour products.

    We refer to the technology as "micro dots". Each dot can uniquely identify the device by it's serial number (which is not only printed on a label but also hardcoded in to the machine).

    I also happen to live in Australia, where it'd be a cold day in hell before we told anyone who didn't have a court order the serial number of a printer that produced a page or who we sold it to.

    The dots are MUCH smaller than 1mm as suggested here, however I can confirm that yellow toner is used. If you have a good magnifying glass (at least 8 times) and a sharp eye you can spot them, but it's really not easy.

    Additionally, our machines all have anti-counterfeit technology anyway. If you try to print or copy a banknote from any major world currency, all you'll get is a black square and possibly an error code being displayed on the panel.

    In the entire time I've worked for this company, we've never once had to do a micro dot check for the police/government/whatever - I'd know because there's only about 3 or 4 of us in the company that have the knowhow to do it and they all work in my department. (no, the govt doesn't know how to do it themselves and even if they did, they'd still need to ask us where that serial number is now).

    I've deliberately avoided mentioning my employers name in this post. I'm pretty sure I haven't broken any confidentiality agreements with this post (all I'm doing is confirming, not supplying new info) but you can't be too careful. Suffice to say, I don't think it matters which major manufacturer, I'd bet my bottom dollar we all do it.

    --
    My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
    Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    1. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In the entire time I've worked for this company, we've never once had to do a micro dot check for the police/government/whatever

      So...what's the point of having the microdots?

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    2. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the same point as the FBI in the U.S. being able to review your library records even though they'll probably never need to.

      (In other words, there is no point.)

    3. Re:I work for a manufacturer by YttriumOxide · · Score: 3, Informative

      1. That explains why the yellow toner gets used so fast.

      Actually, I'd be utterly shocked if you ever even noticed the amount of yellow toner it's using. If you only ever printed black and white documents with an average 5% coverage or so, you'd go through thousands of black toner cartridges before you used up even one yellow one.

      The primary cause of going through lots of yellow toner is that yellow gets used in a LOT of colours that people commonly print (think CMYK mixes, not RGB)

      2. It's really nice that your products continue to work after (not) printing controlled documents. Our printer conked out when some yahoo decided to make a copy of a money order for his records by scanning it & printing it out.

      Conked out as in stopped working? Yikes! Our machines will print the black square, call an error and then continue to work fine unless you do another 5 attempts at the EXACT same document... (at which point it will lock up and require someone that knows how to get in to service mode (ie, a technician) to fix it)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    4. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Couldn't you lose the "feature" where the printer damages itself?

      If you stopped the counterfeiting attempt, no need to do anything else.

      And what about false positives, people trying to use that "feature" to break a copy shop's printer, etc?

      Even if the gov't asked or ordered that you stop the copy attempt, it is a bit much for them to ask or order you to act as judge, jury, and executioner in requiring the printer to damage itself.

      Anyone know the secret codes to unbreak the printers.

      Post them here.

      The only ones that should be able to order a printer destroyed is a COURT, after a TRIAL.

      Not any other way.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    5. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      (HP)

      Turn off printer.
      Remove Network Card.
      Turn on printer while holding (checkmark), and continue holding button.
      When printer says ready (orwhatever), turn it off.
      Put the network card back in.

    6. Re:I work for a manufacturer by mph · · Score: 2, Funny
      although HP are rebadging some of our equipment these days...
      Excuse me, I have to check my iPod for microdots.
    7. Re:I work for a manufacturer by rekoil · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used to work for a printing company that did color proof output on Canon color copiers. We had exactly the problem you described once when we tried to print a job that had a partial currency image on each page - the printer shut itself down after printing five pages with a black box over the image.

      Apparently things are even more insiduous than you think...the tech told me that each time the currency detection code is triggered, the algorithm adjusts its sensitivity upwards (to thwart folks who try to "experiment" to beat it).

      Even worse, every time there's a service call to re-activate a printer that shut down in this manner, a secret service report must be filed, along with a report (or hard copy, preferably) of what exactly what the user was trying to copy. As the tech explained it, it's either 1. Canon reports this data, or 2. The Secret Service comes over directly to ask you about it. The former is certainly a far better option, IMO...

    8. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's the same point as the FBI in the U.S. being able to review your library records even though they'll probably never need to.

      It's even more pointless in this case because all you need to do to defeat this "technology" is buy your printers with cash and not send in the warranty card.

      Oh shit! I just gave away the secret. How long until printers are as heavily regulated as guns and you need a background check to buy one?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Dioscorea · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Conked out as in stopped working? Yikes! Our machines will print the black square, call an error and then continue to work fine unless you do another 5 attempts at the EXACT same document...

      Yeah, cos a user would NEVER do that.

      honestly, you're wise not to say which company you work for. it's really disappointing to hear that printer manufacturers cripple their products in this way. there are surely legitimate artistic and/or administrative uses that would be blocked by the kinds of safeguard you're describing.

    10. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And if you contacted Xerox about dropping 300K+ on a DC8000 but told them you didn't want a service contract and that you wanted to pay cash they would laugh at you.

      The kinds of printers that you can buy with cash are definetly no where near capable of producing the kind of print quality you would need too fool someone.

      Even with the absolute top of the line for colour laser quality (possibly the DC8000 I mentioned above and operate) would never be able to produce a bank note quality print. Even trying would be foolish. Counterfit ID on the other hand would work so long as there is no hologram or foil to worry about.

    11. Re:I work for a manufacturer by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about black and white printers? I have an hp LaserJet 1320, and I'm curious if it might have one of these. I would guess they don't because the microdots are probably designed to catch counterfeiters. Can you provide any insight? OH, and don't forget, Slashdot has repeatedly refused lawyer-powered requests for the usernames of anonymous posters. ;-)

    12. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Com2Kid · · Score: 2, Informative
      • And if you contacted Xerox about dropping 300K+ on a DC8000 but told them you didn't want a service contract and that you wanted to pay cash they would laugh at you.


      And instead if I go to ebay.com or a used office supply shop and purchase one that is a few years old?

      And from the looks of it, Docucolors are sold through third parties anyways, and I am sure that it would not be too hidiously hard to find some small company willing to take $300,000 in cash.
    13. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you are a suspect in a minor counterfeiting scheme and your house is investigated, bam they have your serial number. Not extremely useful for cracking the initial case but useful none the less.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    14. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Nogami_Saeko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, now that people know how the security system works (Info on detection system), it seems that any photographer who wants to protect their originals from being reproduced could find a way of putting the same pattern in their photograph to prevent duplication (incase you're wondering, if it was me, I'd use a plastic stencil cut with the appropriate pattern, and an airbrush with yellow paint/ink/pigment to add them to the background of something I had already printed a clean copy of).

      Seems like there might be a business opportunity in this - commercial photographers protecting their images from being duplicated by customers, etc.

      N.

      --
      "Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
    15. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Macgrrl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you don't work for the same company I do, it would be one of only a small handful of others. I am well aware that all our colour capable devices have anti-counterfeiting technologing on board (the yellow dots).

      If the EFF have a problem with a technology which was designed to prevent counterfeiting, do they also have a problem with serial numbers on genuine currency?

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    16. Re:I work for a manufacturer by brandorf · · Score: 3, Informative

      As someone who was a sales clerk for the largest retailer in the world, I can say that they certainly did not train us in any way for counterfeit detection. Our orders were to take the bill even if we had doubts, and then let someone higher up the chain of command deal with it.

      --


      Bork Bork Bork!!
    17. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Abreu · · Score: 3, Funny

      Thank you for telling us...

      "Honey? Im going to Walmart, you want anything?"

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    18. Re:I work for a manufacturer by flacco · · Score: 3, Funny
      Anyone who would accept a thirty-dollar bill would probably be fooled by a counterfeit done with a crayon.

      walmart employees probably have never seen large, exotic bills like the $30 in their paychecks.

      --
      pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
    19. Re:I work for a manufacturer by inflex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A blue LED really helps show up those yellow dots. They'll come up looking like tiny specks of black pepper.

      I recently had some manual covers printed out at OfficeWorks using their colour laser Xerox machine - sure enough the microdots were there.

    20. Re:I work for a manufacturer by Parafilmus · · Score: 2, Insightful


      An interested party does not need a the cooperation of your company to take advantage of the micro-dots.

      If I understand correctly, the dots alone are enough to test any document against any printer, or to determine whether two documents share the same source.

    21. Re:I work for a manufacturer by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Somewhat off-topic here, but many of the "photo" inkjets these days can produce more correct color then most consumer/office color laser printers. You really gotta get into the heavy duty expensive color lasers before they get good.

      It's a nightmare trying to get correct colors out of any of the HP color lasers I've used, yet I can get damned good color prints from a $40 HP inkjet.

      Obviously, color lasers are awesome because they won't bleed or fade like inkjet, and they're great for printing things like charts and color documents that don't need correct colors. But that's all beside the point.

      I don't think I've ever heard of an inkjet printer watermarking the page like these laser printers, although I have heard of them not printing currency.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    22. Re:I work for a manufacturer by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Informative
      If the EFF have a problem with a technology which was designed to prevent counterfeiting, do they also have a problem with serial numbers on genuine currency?

      This technology doesn't prevent counterfeiting; it makes it easier to track who made a particular document. Every document printed is watermarked, with no notice to the user. The possibilities of abuse are huge. At least knowing this exists if one does need anonymity one can avoid this technology.

    23. Re:I work for a manufacturer by sumdumass · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm in agreement with you on the buying a printer part.

      How well do you think it would go over if the Government started mandating that everybody has to turn over fingerprints at birth?
      It would surprise you to know thta we are closer to this then you know. First hospitals are required to take footprints at birth. There is a corelation between the footprint and the finger print but i'm not sure about how acurate it is. Second, The schools already do finger printing as early as kindergarden or preschool.

      They do this finger printing under the guise that if your kid ever becomes missing they can use it to identify them. I refused to let my kid do this but the teacher went ahead and did it saying it would have made him feel left out. Once it is in the system there is nothign we can do to reomve it and seeing how the government has to agree to let you sue them, there is realy no action that could have reversed it.

      My understanding is that this is done nation wide. they claim the finger prints aren't part of a criminal reacord but they have to be able to cross reference them ot identify you kid once he's found dead so don't think for a minute that other agencies don't have access to it.

      It probably won't be too long before they are taken at the hospital before the baby is released. Somethign more powerfull then "the war on terror" is "it for the children". That will create a scenario were anyone objecting will look like some wacko, pedo or worse. It's just somethign thats hard to word corectly.
    24. Re:I work for a manufacturer by GuyWithLag · · Score: 2, Funny

      How well do you think it would go over if the Government started mandating that everybody has to turn over fingerprints at birth?

      Make electronics your hobby and buy a solder gun. And be really careless...
  31. Re:The first thing I think about.... by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I have nothing to hide" is a very dangerous way of thinking

  32. Re:MOD PARENT UP by griffjon · · Score: 2, Funny

    I always set the evil bit on my TCP/IP stack outgoing, just to check for RFC compliance: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3514.txt

    --
    Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
  33. If you print a single line of text in notepad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's prints "Page 1" at the bottom, dumb ass.

  34. Yes, Evil. by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Interesting
    > Im sorry, but the word 'evil' is really being used far too much on slashdot to talk about stuff that isnt evil in anyway, shape or form. It reminds me of the RIAAs usage of the word 'steal', and both parties are using the words wrongly to provide a very specific view in other peoples minds of things that they personally do not like IMHO.

    The EFF is concerned about this technology because they've read their history books. And because some people who participated in writing the history books... had to be very careful about what they printed those books on. And because the systems of government used in the Warsaw Pact countries from 1917-1991 was - to many people, myself included - "evil".

    I posted this a few months ago, the last time the topic came up. This is not just about counterfeiting. (And as a guy who likes money, I hate counterfeiters with a passion almost equalled to my hatred of spammers, which is pretty freakin' intense.)

    In Soviet Romania [google.com], a sample page from every typewriter had to be registered with the police, so that any samizdat produced could be quickly traced back to the typewriter's owner. Use your imagination as to what happened to the owner, or Google for it.

    In Romania every typewriter had to be registered with a local magistrate. Samples of letters typed on these machines had to be produced under the observation of the secret police so they could trace underground publishing activity.

    - G. Davey, Christian Publishing: Before and After the Communist Collapse

    In Soviet Russia [geocities.com], all photocopiers were registered with the KGB and kept in secure rooms, to which physical access was restricted.

    Some samizdat works, mostly magazines, were typed on typewriter. The copies were indistinct and hard to read. I realized that the movement against violating human rights was doomed to be an eternal amusement of the few intellectuals without proper copyprinters. But where could one find a copyprinting machine in the country, where all the copiers were affixed with seals at night and placed in the special rooms where only proved KGB members could work on it. There was the only decision - to make the machine ourselves. It had to be easy to make and quite efficient.

    - A. A. Bolonkin, Memoirs of Soviet Political Prisoner

    The West is probably still playing catch-up.

    1. Re:Yes, Evil. by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Insightful

      because the systems of government used in the Warsaw Pact countries from 1917-1991 was - to many people, myself included - "evil".

      McCarthyism wasn't exactly a walk in the park for a lot of people either.

  35. We put effort into tracking paper but not bullets by davecason · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We still don't have a national database on bullet striations to uniquely identify all guns by the bullets they fire but the government is all over making sure that we uniquely identify all printers by the paper they've printed? That's crazy.

    I doubt the EFF will be as successful as the NRA.

  36. My Database is Bigger than Yours by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You can also help us through a more hands-on approach. If you own, operate, or have legitimate access to color laser printers or color photocopiers, please print the eight test sheets provided below on each of the machines to which you have access and send them to EFF.

    Do this, and the EFF will have a larger, more diverse database of printer identifications than any manufacturer. And just where's their Privacy Policy on this?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:My Database is Bigger than Yours by typical · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except for the fact that the EFF will release this information *publically*. Right now, you already don't have anonymity on said printer models. The problem is that you don't *know* that you lack anonymity.

      This way, there will be pressure on the printer manufacturers to stop this kind of nonsense and you will at least be aware of the fact that your printer is rigged.

      Honestly, as hardware industries go, the printer industry is getting up there on the "evil" list. Use of the DMCA to prevent people from refilling their cartridges, misleading price-per-page information, use of a razor-and-blades model, covert watermarks, failing to print out images of currency (okay, this one isn't so bad, as there are few legitimate uses for this), "group" color catridges to require replacement of all color ink once a single color is exhausted...

      I'm at the point where my biggest desire for a printer would be an uber-simple printer with no thrills, no onboard Postscript, nothing -- just a microcontroller to allow exact timing on head and rotor movement -- and then have all the logic in the computer next to it. Have enough logic onboard the printer to allow a simple protocol that exchanges things like resolution and paper size, and then commoditize the thing. Oh, and make the thing a nice solid piece of metal, not these flimsy plastic things that snap and break when you brush against them.

      --
      Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
  37. anonymous coward by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Funny
    Nice to see the anonymous coward option existed way back then too!

    I wonder if they used their karma bonus though?

    Personally I'm guessing they did it so the British or anyone else didn't mod them '-1 DEAD!'

  38. Evil Bit by xdc · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, the "evil" bit. Something along the lines of RFC 3514.

  39. Missing the point... by metapy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think many of you are missing the point here. This is NOT to be able to take a document and track it back to a specific printer, but rather to irrefutably link the document and the printer.

    "They" will never find a counterfeit document and then look for the printer, they will find the printer and then link the documents printed as corroborating evidence. This will be used once a suspect is available and a with a search warrant present and the printer seized, now with the micro-dot encoded serial number they can prove that Document A was definitely printed on Xerox Model X3Y Serial number: sdf78s6d5sdf46s4df98 which resides in the office a Mr. John Q. Public. at 321 Main St. Spingfield, MA; this removes plausibly deniability from the case. No more will a printed document carry any form of anonymity, there will be no reasonable doubt if this is called into evidence at a trial, do you REALLY want an almost iron-clad evidence of every document printed to be available?

    1. Re:Missing the point... by Ingolfke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      do you REALLY want an almost iron-clad evidence of every document printed to be available?

      Yes, do you really want criminals to get out of a crime because their lawyer can play technical tricks and create false doubts in the juries mind? Do you not want to be able to objectively say, I did not print that with my printer and actually back it up w/ proof? Protecting people from the government tracking them down is one thing... but once evidence is available beign able to link it to another piece of legally obtained evidence should be permitted.

    2. Re:Missing the point... by metapy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, yes I do and here is why. If a case is hinging solely on the linking of a document to a printer then I say the case would not pass the reasonable doubt test. Do you know how the dot pattern is laid down? Is there an error rate? Is the detection rate 100%? Can it be faked? These are questions that would most likely be glossed over in a trial. This will give a false sense of trust in the evidence, if the dots match you must convict.

      Think about EVERY SINGLE document you have printed and will print in your entire life, now would you like all of those linked back to you? Every waste company resources by printing something personal, write some radical text in college, print a damning e-mail? Once color laser printers become commonplace then we will have to worry. Remember, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin. Can you think of a single plausible case where this would make the a difference in the world enough so to be able to link a document to a printer?

      I say the freedom of the printed word should not be compromised due to the method of delivery. Realistically anyone who is truly going to be adversely effected by this will work around it, dye-sublimation printers, inkjet, etc. To me this makes as much sense as putting a lo-jack device on every vehicle in the nation and tracking them all, if that was the case we could catch all the speeders, stolen cars, etc. this would be a good thing, right? If every phone conversation int he nation was recorded and could be obtained with a court order think of all the crime that could be solved/prevented. You have to ask yourself how many freedoms or how much anonymity you are willing to give up for how much protection. I think giving up the ability to print a document anonymously does not justify the ability to catch an occasional counterfeiter with no more evidence than a document and a printer.

  40. Re:Not a big deal by NullProg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So why is everyone so upset ? The stupid people who counterfit money will give away the printer model they used, not a big deal.

    The Federalists maybe: The Federalist Papers. Alexander Hamilton and James Madison didn't want the British government to know who was writing them.

    I can see where I might want to remain anonymous in a letter to my congress critter accusing him of being brain dead. I'm not advocating anonymous threats, just private dissent.

    Enjoy,

    --
    It's just the normal noises in here.
  41. Re:anonymity claim overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the history of the government's treatment of dissenters, there is legitimate claim to be worried..

    People shouldn't be added to a "watch list" becuase they handed out anti-war fliers, or get a visit at work from the Secret Service when they satarize Bush..

    If Senator McCarthy was around now, I could just imagine him hauling up people to the Senate or HUAC accusing people who printed "subversive" fliers asking them if they were communists..

  42. Re:The first thing I think about.... by div_2n · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or how about this: You are going away for a month on vacation. You print out access codes to your house alarm system. Heck, just for fun, you also print out some temporary admin passwords to some servers you run and give the paper to your most trusted friend in the world to fill in for you while you are gone to watch over the servers and water your plants.

    He accidentally loses the paper. Somehow it ends up in the hands of a black hat. Now all the black hat needs is to know WHO printed this list to take advantage of the situation.

    Now how do you feel about your identity stored on that paper?

    It isn't what it WILL be used for, it's what it COULD be used for that bothers me.

  43. Re:The first thing I think about.... by paulbiz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually there was a serial killer here locally (who received no press, because he only kidnapped, tortured and killed black women, but thats a different topic). Anyway he was finally caught because he mailed the local newspaper a map of where one of the bodies was buried. The police could tell by the map that it was printed from Microsoft's map site (whatever it's called) and MS kept logs of everything, and were able to narrow it down to that exact map and get his IP address, which lead to his ISP and eventually his arrest (he killed himself in jail the next day).

    So, sometimes they DO want to know who printed that map to Boston!

  44. Re:As they should by aslate · · Score: 3, Funny

    A time for Yes Minister quotage i think:

    Sir Humphrey: "Bernard, the Official Secrets Act was not put in place to protect the secrets, it's there to protect the officials."

    And

    Sir Humphrey: "In the spirit of "Open Government", one should always make public anything that can easily be discovered by some other way."

  45. Replace the yellow ink? by GlobalEcho · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I understand the marking is done with yellow ink. It seems one would be able to expose a lot of these printers by replacing (or contaminating) the yellow ink with black.

    1. Re:Replace the yellow ink? by Negadecimal · · Score: 3, Informative

      It seems one would be able to expose a lot of these printers by replacing (or contaminating) the yellow ink with black.

      Just try a sheet of black, glossy paper (magazine ads are good source). Toner ink has a matte texture, and is slightly opaque - when you hold your printed sheet so that light reflects off it, you'll easily see a dot pattern.

      Oh, and make sure your test printout is pretty light, or you'll gum up the printer (toner doesn't fuse well to gloss surfaces)

  46. Re:Isn't this a good thing? by jrockway · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe because there is a legitimate need of not having your printouts tracked? And because they're the Electronic Frontier Foundation, not the Gun Frontier Foundation.

    Anyway, the gun tracking is mostly looking for manufacturing defects that somehow mark up the bullet as it's fired (scraping off pieces of metal as it's shot through the barrel). Gun makers are not intentionally putting tracking data on to the bullets!

    --
    My other car is first.
  47. Re:Greenpeace? by radish · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dude, I think you got lost on that last inter-dimensional jump. This is the dimension where the earth is round, the sky is blue and Greenpeace is a charity that saves Whales & Dolphins. I think you want the one where they blew up the twin towers and Al Quaeda run a Gorilla sanctuary. I think it's the third on the left.

    --

    ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  48. Ittsy-bittsy-dots... by RagingChipmunk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Easy counter measure: When you print out your great govt conspiracy expose, take the set to the Office Max where you bought the tagging-printer and photo-copy the document.

    Retail photocopiers wont catch the yellow-on-white and the small size of the dot because their resolution is too crappy. The copier does the work of getting rid of your tracks.

    Now burn the originals and leak anonymously!! Woohoo.

    --
    The only PT Boat Journal on the web: http://www.PT171.org
    1. Re:Ittsy-bittsy-dots... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      well, it works and it doesn't. The copier you use will not notice the dots (too small), but it will tag it's own set of dots on there (and yes i know. I'm a colour tech for a very large copier company)

  49. Something's wrong with those PDFs... by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...ok, so the EFF wants eight PDFs printed on my printer. Fine.

    When opening the PDFs, I find that they are made to be printed on a sheet of paper roughly 71 by 92 inches in size...?

    What kind of printer do they think I have, anyway?

    (and when scaling down to about 11% of original size, the detail of the original document was partly lost in printout... Somebody there obviously hasn't tested these PDFs...)

  50. Re:The first thing I think about.... by Trigun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It was only a half-assed measure. I've been saying it from day one. Sequentially larger bills to avoid bleaching them and printing larger denominations on the bill, large watermarks that are difficult if not impossible to reproduce on consumer-grade equipment, put the metallic stripes on the outside of the paper so that you don't have to really study what it is, and different colours for different bills, will stop this penny-ante bullshit in its tracks. You won't have kids running off fake bills on their home printers, you won't have to put all the crap into the software to prevent people scanning it, and you won't have to fuck with people's laser printers.

    Of course it means getting new presses and plates, but they make new plates all the time, and continue to make new dies so that every state can have their slogan on it, and Fark can have a Photoshop contest.

  51. Re:Greenpeace? by lxs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yet for some reason I think that the French were fully justified in sinking the Rainbow Warrior.

    You approve of bombing a ship and killing one of it's crew? That's tantamount to condoning state sponsored terrorism. Expect a visit from law enforcement any minute now.

  52. only color laser printers? by E8086 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know this is old news which I didn't pay much attention to until I got an inexpensive laser printer 2 weeks ago. Does anyone know if the "tracking dots" are also printed on B&W laser printers? I have the Samsung ML-1740 buy.com had for $30 after rebates, I think it's up to 50 after rebated, but it's still a good deal. I remember over hearing the evening news covering this a few weeks ago, yes the common folks news has mentioned this.

    Used to convict, used to prove innocents?
    these dots could be used to discredit someone claiming to have incriminating documents from you, but only if all the papers they have from you but the documents in question match pages you know are from your printer. Then the counter arguement of you know docs can be traced back to printers and you printer that one somewhere else.

    It would be nice if printers that did this were clearly labeled as doing so and the manual contained instructions for the end user to find and verify them.

    If someone gave me an old document they claim I gave to them, I'd like to be able to confirm that it was from me. In the unlikely event someone claimed to have a document from you, you could confirm it was from you or at least your printer. Just's just as easy to fake email headers as it is to put someone else's name in the from part of a letter and hit print.

    --
    F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
  53. Yeah, I can see it. by troon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Each dot can uniquely identify the device by it's serial number

    I can see the extra dot added, between the "t" and "s" of "its".

    I thought they were meant to be yellow?

    --
    Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
    1. Re:Yeah, I can see it. by tpv · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, this is slashdot.
      We use an alternative punctuation system here.

      --
      Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
  54. Even if it won't identify you... by phorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's say somebody buys a printer to use for counterfeiting. To be safe, they buy it cash, using false ID, in a different city... etc etc

    While the serial ID might be somewhat less-than-useful in tracking down the individual culprit to his/her home, if you start finding a lot of bills with the same serial you could at least determine that they were all produced by the same person/printer (rather than several different printers/counterfeiters). From that, you might gather logistics based on the area-spread wherein the phony bills are used, etc.

  55. Re:We put effort into tracking paper but not bulle by rtb144 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You've been watching too much CSI, if you think this type of evidence is easily tracked and stored. Since it is obvious that you don't know much about guns, I will explain something. Markings on bullets and shells are very easy to change and is very much subject to conditions. It would be a waste of money to try and store and track all of this information. It appears however that tracking serial numbers on printers is not that hard.

    --
    Sie ist tunbar!
  56. Who will this stop? by gcauthon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For some reason I doubt that your average counterfeiter will use a color laserjet they picked up from Best Buy. The tool of choice for this activity is the offset printing press.

  57. Re:Greenpeace? by Narchie+Troll · · Score: 3, Informative

    1972, actually. Last time I checked, Greenpeace was non-violent and always has been.

    Of course, if you consider civil disobedience to be "criminal eco-terrorism", then I might see where you're coming from.

  58. Irony by eagl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Won't it be priceless when the EFF's lawsuit is dismissed in the name of homeland security, and the next day they're told to hand over all of their collected "evidence", also in the name of homeland security? And of course if they ever reveal that they've been told to hand over the information, they'll all be tossed in jail without charges other than violating some classified measure in the so-called "patriot act".

    At least they're not photographing train stations, public parks, or doing something else equally dangerous to national security, but just think of the intelligence goldmine present in all those test pages being sent to the EFF. A goon...er...security agent could get a promotion out of this!

  59. Countermeasures by Webmoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've been thinking of some possible countermeasures to protect you in the occasional episode of civil disobedience

    1) Insert a random scattering of microdots in the document prior to printing

    2) Include a yellow background in the document(doesn't really work for counterfeiting)

    3) Overprint the same document using multiple identical printers, rendering the pattern of dots undecipherable

    Without knowing the technical details of how the microdots are inserted, I see a potential problem: if the microdots are overlaid on another color, it may not be possible to obscure them because the RIP (Raster Image Processor) may create color separations which do not overlay colors. It's been reported that the encoding happens "just before the laser" which indicates that it is post-RIP processing. In this case, it would certainly be possible to overlay colors, even if the RIP doesn't do it. If, however, the RIP does allow overlays, then it shouldn't be a problem. (I may just have given Big Brother a new idea here. Hope not.)

    Option 3 isn't immune to the above either, as layered encoding could be deciphered by sorting the layers.

    There must be SOME way to obscure that bomb threat, ransom note, or anonymous source.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    1. Re:Countermeasures by Webmoth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      According to Epson, some of their inkjet printers use all colors of ink, even when printing only black pages, ostensibly to keep the heads clear. Even if you only print black pages, your color cartridges will eventually be depleted. Incidentally, Epson printers will refuse to print if any of the cartridges are missing or empty.

      There's three possible reasons for this:

      1.) They genuinely are concerned about keeping the heads clear

      2.) They want to make sure you have to buy expensive ink tanks even if you don't use them

      3.) They are really printing microdots that can be traced back to the printer.

      --
      Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    2. Re:Countermeasures by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've been thinking of some possible countermeasures to protect you in the occasional episode of civil disobedience

      Use a B/W laser. Thy don't have this tracking, (if you're paranoid, get an old one; mine is 1992 vintage and still cranking pages out at 600 dpi). If you need colour, use an inkjet. I haven't heard any suggestion that these are tracked, but anyway just buy with cash and throw away after. They're virtually disposable now.

  60. I guess you might know... by The+Amazing+Fish+Boy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Could print drivers be devised to tamper with this? If the little dots are "invisible" to the human eye, I guess it wouldn't hurt to have a printer driver randomly throw these little dots all over the page? I guess it might have to change the color depending on what model of printer is being used. But it sounds like it could be done... or am I missing something?

  61. In Soviet Russia (not a joke) by phr1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    typewriters and copying machines all had to be registered with the government, so they could trace the origin of any printed material. There were many incidents of underground publishing called "samizdat" that got around the registration system at great risk. Mikhail Bulgakov's novel "The Master and Margherita" was initially circulated as samizdat and Bulgakov later won the Nobel Prize in Literature. That could only happen because it was very hard to tell where any particular copy came from.

    The US will not make the same mistake the USSR did. If another Bulgakov surfaces in Dubya's America, this printer-ID technology will rat him out before that freedom-hating Nobel Prize Committee has a chance to work its evil. Why does the EFF hate America?

  62. The sociology of /. by drix · · Score: 2, Insightful
    --

    I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
  63. Conspiracy theory for the day by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK, so let me be sure I understand this.

    You're telling me that your printers always include a dot, printed with yellow toner, visible only with an 8x magnifying glass, in which is encoded enough information for you to identify exactly which printer that you made was responsible for printing that page?

    Sorry, but if that's all you've got, I call bullshit. Too much doesn't add up.

    Printer manufacturers have high enough resolution to do this, yet only put out 600dpi/1200dpi boxes, where you can easily enough see jaggies with the naked eye?

    If the dots are really that small, they could be messed up just by bleed in average quality printer paper.

    Alternatively, this isn't a microdot in the classic meaning of the term, but rather the system is supposed to rely on the relative positions of the dots on the page, with dots spaced inches apart? How is that going to help fight conterfeiting? I don't know many bank notes that come in handy US letter or A4 size for counterfeiting convenience.

    You say your department has never had to look up a serial number for the authorities, yet strangely according to TFA, the authorities seem to do this all the time with other makers?

    Only a tiny number of people in your department know how to do this, it's all so secret that other printer manufacturers cited in TFA wouldn't even comment and you can't tell us how to find the things, yet you're prepared to identify your employer, thus practically waving a flag about who you are and the fact that you're willing to disclose this sort of information?

    There's no obligation to register where you buy your printer, nor to notify anyone of selling it on, so there's nothing to connect to the serial number unless someone bothers transferring warranty information (even after the usually pretty naff warranty has expired).

    And here's the kicker: governments all over the world use these things. If there were security marks being printed on their documents, they would know about it, not least because they all do it routinely with confidential documents themselves. How am I supposed to believe that government departments are allowed to use these things when anything they print could be traced back to exactly where it comes from by someone who isn't cleared by that government's security people, and works in another country?

    Sorry, but this just doesn't ring true. There is absolutely no factual information in either TFA or all your posts to this thread that's good enough to reproduce this effect reliably, and what's more I'm looking at full-page print-outs from two colour printers, following the directions given in TFA, and unable to see anything even remotely resembling what's described.

    I'm happy to change my view on this if more information is provided, but I'm very sceptical about this whole story right now.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Conspiracy theory for the day by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Informative
      Sorry, but if that's all you've got, I call bullshit. Too much doesn't add up.

      RTFA, the one at the EFF. They have lists of printers they've tested; almost all colour lasers have been found to have these dots. They have blown up images of patterns, which are spread all over the sheet. What they're trying to do is work out what these encode, so they're asking for test printouts along with printer data.

    2. Re:Conspiracy theory for the day by papaskunk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      First of all, the effect is purported only to be incorporated in certain high-quality laser devices. The typical ink-jet printer and even your standard SOHO/business-class color printer/copier can't get even close to the quality of reproducing currency, not to mention the ridiculously difficult process of implementing color management. So why would they bother? We are talking about high-quality, high-speed professional output devices. Secondly, you attack the grandparent, yet ignore evidence (the Doc12) presented in the article. And third, much of what you write is simply innacurate. There's been some discussion here about rewriting the drivers. Believe me, this has nothing to do with drivers or even printer firmware. This is all happening in-RIP. What is a RIP? It's a Raster Image Processor, and it's a dedicated box that specifically translates printer files, be it PCL 5, 6, or PostScript, into the raster image that will be printed on the page. Guess what? Nobody buys a $6,000-$40,000 RIP or a $20,000 high-speed printer without getting a service contract to go with it. And what do you need when you have a service contract? A serial number, of course. Also, your statement that 1200 dpi output produces visible jaggies, is patently false. Pick up a book and look at it. The paper in that book was inked by an impression cylinder, which was inked by a plate, which was probably made from film, which was produced by an imagesetter, which received a file from a RIP that was -- wait, let's take a guess, how much? -- about 1200 dpi! 1200 dpi was specifically chosen because the human eye cannot see the corners of the dots. Every printed piece you look at was RIPped at about 1200dpi. And yes, microdots are real. Microdots, sometimes called spots, are what make up dots. The 600/300 lpi (lines per inch, not dots per inch) quality limit has everything to do with a) the ability of the RIP software to rasterize an image into line screens, and b) the reality that dot gain ('bleed', as you call it) makes printing 4-color process impossible at much higher of a line screen. But is it possible to lay down one microdot/spot, all by itself, and for it to stay just fine without interference from any other nearby dots? Of course! Even your ink jet can do this, by simply spraying out a bit of ink as the nozzle closes. Believe me, they do this at HP. Give the poster a break. Obviously, he works for a small company. Xerox, on the other hand, happens to have an exclusive contract with Kinko's, so there's about 5,000 Doc12's out there with bored college kids messing around with them on the night shift. Are you telling me you think nobody's ever even tried to counterfeit currency? Your stubbornness amazes me viewed in context with your absolute ignorance to the subject. Sincerely, Ryan Kirk

  64. Re:Greenpeace? by BigBuckHunter · · Score: 3, Informative

    1972, actually. Last time I checked, Greenpeace was non-violent and always has been.
    Yeah, you're right. Raming one boat into another isn't violent, even when said boat is competing in the America's cup race. Breaking and entering into the control room at a Nuclear plant isn't either. Paying millions to the ELF (definately not a non-violent organization) is OK. So is trespass, destruction of property, forcibly boarding a cargo ship in flordia, etc.


    I could go on... really I could

    BBH

  65. Just Printers? What about DVDs? by nightwing2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought I read somewhere that DVD burners do this same trick - every burned DVD includes the unique ID of the drive that created it; this feature too, is part of the firmware and cannot be bypassed.

  66. Imagine if you will by kingsqueak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine being the poor bastard that had the misfortune to have registered his printer for warranty coverage but threw it out or sold it to someone who 'misused' it later on.

    What now, we need to put all our electronic devices through a chipper/shredder too?

    Sure maybe you wouldn't be charged per se, but I don't find much difference from being 'arrested' and serving a day in jail and being questioned or harrassed (more accurately) for an equivalent amount of time.

    If you don't think investigators are brutally relentless...good for you to be so blissfully ignorant and may you never find out the truth. Your life can be trashed without any charges, merely because you were a suspect.

    Just another reason why the EFF is right on this one.

  67. Re:Yellow by DeathElk · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hmmm, you'll probably find one of your workmates had an affinity for printing documents with large areas of skin tone ;)

  68. Scary stuff by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The thought that immediately comes to mind is that the USSR used to catalog the typefaces of every typewriter sold so that they could trace any document back to the original author.

    Of course, I suspect that any sufficiently advanced forensic analysis of a document could probably tie it to a printer. However, the fact that these are documented is what bothers me. I.e. the FBI need only ask Xerox which printer produced a specific document and they can tell them.

    The USSR used this sort of scheme to censor writers and ensure that if someone spoke out they could be easily traced. What is to prevent any government from making the same requirements of any company?

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  69. Counterfeiting? At /these/ prices? by jesdynf · · Score: 4, Funny

    Have you seen what color ink is going for lately? Be lucky to break even if you printed anything smaller than 20s.

    --
    Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
  70. My printer isn't evil, it's good! by noidentity · · Score: 2, Funny

    I mistakenly selected goatse.cx when printing a document and it thankfully warned me before I caused a loss-of-vision incident at the office. They need to keep a list of these too!

  71. Re:Greenpeace? by kraut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ramming a french boat seems like very peaceful retaliation, considering that the french blew up their flagship in harbour, killing a crewman.

    Methinks a bit of perspective is called for.

    As for the "boarding" incident, I seem to recall that they clambered on board the ship - it's not like they took over control of the ship at gunpoint. Illegal? Probably. Stupid? Probably. Tresspassing? Yup. Violent? err, no. Sorry.

    --
    no taxation without representation!
  72. Re:Greenpeace? by JesusCigarettes · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is totally offtopic, but I can't sit and be quiet.

    Do you consider it terrorism to be responsible for the deaths of thousands of people? Because Greenpeace convinced the leader of Zimbabwe that genetically modified foods cause horrible diseases in their efforts to make all genetically modified food labeled.

    Yeah, they're conservative sources, it's all I could find at short notice.

    I don't care either way on the issue, and they might have a point about labeling GM foods - I haven't done the research. But it doesn't mean dick to starving Africans if the food is genetically modified or not. And that can certainly be considered terrorism.

    Not as much as PETA, of course...

  73. Sure, This Is Useful by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 2, Insightful


    The next time I send a threatening letter to some government official, I'll be sure to use the printer I bought at CompUSA, which I paid for with a check bearing my name, address and phone number.

    And also the printer paper I use will be purchased at Staples, and I'll be sure to request their spam by leaving my name, address and phone number attached to the order.

    And, all my ink cartridges used will be purchased online from PrintPal.com, using my ATM/Visa card.

    Oh, and I'll make sure my photo gets taken by the security cameras at the exact instant I buy the stuff.

    When are cops going to realize that they are only capable of catching morons? Because they are morons.

    Of course, they caught me after robbing a bank - but that was because I was a moron at the time...:-) To paraphrase the Hitler Youth member in "Our Man Flint": "I'm a much smarter person NOW!"

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!