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DSL-Extender Brings Broadband 20km
An anonymous reader writes "Whirlpool outlines Telstra's new DSL deployment: "Telstra announced a trial of the technology back in January, saying it would allow DSL to be connected to people who were up to 20km from a central exchange. DSL Extenders work by splitting an existing copper phone line into eight separate ADSL lines using a tiny, ruggedised remote DSLAM.""
Remote DSLAMs are certainly nothing new, but usually the connection from the remote DSLAM to the CO is fiber, not copper.
Newer housing developments sometimes have a fiber line that runs into the neighborhood, then copper lines from there to each house, so the phone company doesn't have to run a big bundle of copper all the way back to the CO; a remote DSLAM is the only way to offer DSL to these houses.
What I want to know is, how did they get a reliable 2.3Mbps link to work over 20km of copper?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
When they talk about the extender DSLAM hardware being rugged they aren't kidding:
Only the size of a small shoe-box, and being fully submersible to a depth of 5m (16 feet), the R8as can be deployed in more locations than any other DSLAM. It can be installed on a pole, or in a pit or manhole susceptible to flooding, as well as other locations such as un-powered cross-connect cabinets. Its small size and light weight also allows it to be suspended from overhead cable.
I'd like to know if they were serving DSL through a submersed DSLAM during the testing phase. I'd really like to know if works as well as they claim.
A few facts
Oz Broadband is anything over 128kbs.(ISDN) Laughable yes.
The maximum speed Tel$tra offer (over ADSL) is 1500/256kbs. *
Up till this announcement, if you were over ~3.5km from the exchange, then you probably couldn't get ADSL.
Telstra (Bigpond) charge for data usage in both directions and their largest offering is 10GB, with modem speed shaping there after.
Telstra also force voice bundling. If you want ADSL, you must have voice and pay a minimum of $18.50AUD per month, even if you don't need it.*
This new offering is best described as a mini DSLAM with a ~2.3Mbit backhaul. So even two users could potentially max it out.
While it's good news for some that are out of reach. The overall state of Oz broadband isn't worth writing home about.
* Some providers offer connection without a voice service (ULL) and ADSL2+ (24Mbs) but only in 5% of exchanges.
Area51 - We are watching...
Come quick, theres only 1,000 memberships left, and, oh yeah, bring a folding chair,waterproof pants, extra stroller, and riot gear if possible, it's gonna be one hellava fight, but a good beat down is always worth free crap right?
Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
Thanks to Telstra's latest creation, citizens within a twenty mile radius were alerted to Godzilla's rampaging battle with the creature of the same name.
This sig is o Unfunny o Funny
...it isn't much beyond an incremental sort of gee-whiz improvement. You can send T1s over long distances and then break them out fractionally or hook them to a DSLAM and use as a backhaul for the customers. The submersion thing might have come about from submersible communications at sea or from the fact that many remote mechanisms in telecom tend to be underground and the waterproofing for those vaults tends not to be the greatest.
I give it a big shrug and a I'll check into it later. I work in telecom so it does get my notice. Now if they make a 1.5Mbps line work to twenty miles on pure copper all the way, that will knock my socks off.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
Please sir, may I have some broadband?
rural new mexico
You don't have to be very rural to wish for broadband. The nearest broadband of any sort is 10 miles away, even though I'm less than a half hour from Dallas.
I started to wonder why this development was happening in Australia instead of here... then I remembered that 1) Australia has even more empty space than we do and 2) US telcos are a bunch of greedy bastards, and the limited rural market won't add enough to the bottom line.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Does anyone have more info on this technology? As a resident of a rural area, my only broadband option is satellite. If DSL were a possibility for me via this new technology, it would really be great.
USA to AUS, Hey, can we get in on this 20-km DSL thing? Man, I'm jealous!
C|N>K
As a Verizon customer all during the DSL revolution, neither the house I had nor the apartments I'm in now are dsl'able. Both are within 2 miles of a CO but for some reason they don't offer it. I'd sure like to sign up for more reliable / commercial level (run my own web / email / streaming audio / etc ) than what I have with consumer cable, which costs $70 / month, incl. tv which I rarely watch.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
"You can't fake what you havent got." -- Seymour Cray Seymour was referring to virtual memory, but the same applies to copper wires. They're probably relying on the statistical nature of communications: i.e. not everybody hits the "Next Blonde Bimbette" button at the same time. The basic wire to the central office (funny, ours is on "Central Avenue") is likely no speedier than before. it's just getting used more efficiently.
I'm in Dallas proper, and I can't get DSL. Instead I have to shell out bigger bucks for slower AirCanopy access.
"of any sort" might not be the phrase you're looking for.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
2.3 mbit shared by 8 people. I hope they're cheap coz they sure aren't impressive.
Dude....call your local gov't and complain. it works.
/. do it someplace that actually makes a difference ;-)
Here in Fairfax, VA, when the local cable (Media General) wanted to increase rates...the local gov looked at the massive stack of complaints and said...um..sure, right after you solve all these other problems for your current promised service.
So make sure you aren't just whining on
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
ohh don't worry, Australian Telcos (Especially Telstra) are greedy bastards as well. Its just that they're being strongarmed by the government to provide reasonable service to remote areas. Its a shame they're not being forced to do it at prices that are inline with the rest of the world.
If this technology had been available even five years ago, it would have been widely used. Now, I question whether it is going to be an economic solution. Recent advances in wireless technologies seem to promise a cheaper service in remote areas while being able to provide similar bandwidth.
There's no southern sky for 10 miles?
"of any sort" might not be the phrase you're looking for.
You're right... let's call it, "any sort less than less than $50 a month" (alternate link here).
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Here in Fairfax, VA, when the local cable (Media General) wanted to increase rates...the local gov looked at the massive stack of complaints and said...um..sure, right after you solve all these other problems for your current promised service.
So make sure you aren't just whining on /. do it someplace that actually makes a difference ;-)
Who do you complain to? Local city hall? What can they do? I thought only the FCC can do anything?
I can give you a list of crap comcast has done that stinks.
They keep raising fee's. Just looking at a bill, I can't tell what is a government tax and what is a comcast fee. Just a few months ago they raised the cost for basic cable. Then two months later, they removed Sci-Fi from the lineup. I called and comcast said that Sci-Fi was now only available with their digital package, but that costs more. I said "Since I was paying $80 a month for all these channels, and you took one away, how much will you lower my bill?". I got a laugh at the other end of the phone. Comcast said I was paying for a service, not any specific channels.
And I swear, the picture quality is worse than just last year. Every now and then, when I am watching a baseball game, the screen will freeze and little boxes will form all over the screen. Once this happens, it takes them an hour to fix the problem, but that does nothing for me because I can't watch the game. And on the lower channels I get small little squiggly lines that just barely distort the picture. The only way I can describe it is if one line of the picture was a string, that someone was making a wave with the string. I went to a second TV just to double check, and the same problem was there too. It is barely noticable, like on a flat screen monitor the 2 little strings. But once you see them, you see them.
And the damn cable modem is crap too. I mentioned it goes out at least twice a month, often for more than a couple of hours. But it will also re-set itself, at random. When it re-sets itself, it takes about 5 minutes for the internet connection to come back again. Pretty much what happens is all the lights on the cable modem are on, then it shuts off, then it blinks for five minutes. I called comcast, and they said that is normal. It sucks if I am in the middle of a download or if I was posting, and I get cut off.
And for about 3 months last winter, I had no DNS service. If I wanted to visit a website, I had to know the IP address and enter it as numerals. Someone here at slashdot told me to change the DNS myself, and I used verizon for a month. I felt like a thief.
And every time I call comcast, it is the same thing. I speak with someone who knows less about computers than your avarage 14 year old. They are often rude. They often want to put you on hold, for long amounts of time. And they end the call before the problem was fixed.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
If you have problems with cable, it's a good idea to remove any splitters and stuff in the line and replace them with good-quality ones. I had this same problem, and found out that my house had like 3 splitters before the cable modem jack. By the time the signal got there, it was severely degraded.
I've been seeing this word quite often in datasheets of chips we use in the lab. (Like here, in the Description.) My first impression was a small, black IC with a confederate flag painted on top... perhaps some unnecessary facial hair, as well.
Now, the word 'rugged' comes from the Scadanavian word for 'shaggy'. However, the popular cowboy mentality has managed to transform 'unkempt' into 'robust', as evidenced by the definition for 'ruggedize':
--to strengthen (as a machine) for better resistance to wear, stress, and abuse--
I'm going to assume, then, that my chip contains a powerful Texan spirit that herds the current like the stampeding mass of electrons that it is.
>> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
Those are Canadian dollars. It's still a lot of money ($79 Canadian translates to about $65 US) but it's not an unreasonable price for satellite internet access. Still, it's a far cry from the $40 US a month (and no activation or equipment fees) I pay for my DSL.
I'd be happy if my local telco would extricate its cranium from its anus and get some Internet going through all the Fiber we have going to my brand new neighborhood instead of just letting it sit dim with only phone service going through it . All our friggin house are wired with Cat5 for crying out loud and there is not ONE option for internet here from the telco besides dial-up . Nice waste of money ! OH and we are close to the offic so we would all be DSL ready except they CAN'T do DSL over fiber . SO I'm stuck with cable internet and they charge WHATEVER they like .
I'm in Wichita Falls TX (125 miles northwest of D/FW), actual out in the boondocks west of Wichita Falls, closer to the booming metropolis of Iowa Park (pronounced "Eye-Way Park" by the locals). We've got broadband wireless out here at 1-2Mbps up/down symmetric by at least three different wireless ISP companies for around $50/month.
Perhaps there is a business opportunity for WISPs, more lucrative than I thought, for wireless internet provider business in the outlying rural-esque areas surrounding the metroplex. Maybe I should think of investing in it.
If you read the wording of the press release, it says that people can get access to DSL "up to 20KM from a central exchange". Key words: central exchange.
... or nearest fiber tie-in.
... but people forget that their local DSLAMs are already some considerable distance away from their own central offices.
... I just ran a distance check between a remote I know of and the central office it's deployed out of: 11km.
When most people in the US run into a distance limit, it's the 5200m/~3 mile distance from *the nearest DSLAM*, not the central exchange. So when people read this press release, they think: "Wow, now DSL goes 15km farther!"
This is an unspoken lie. The Wikipedia entry their own press release links to lists a distance limit of 3km to the premises and further digging turns up G.SHDSL can be deployed up to about 12km from the central exchange
Grand total: 15km.
*Apparent* improvement: 10km
Working for an ISP has its advantages
So total distance from central office where I am that people can get DSL: Around 16km
Distance Telstra should be getting using the technology they're talking about: 15km / roughly the same.
Distance Telstra claims: 20km
I don't know where that last 5km is coming from, but I bet it's because in this 'longest run' they've got fiber in there somewhere. If fiber isn't being used, I would _really_ like to see some specs on the data rate they get out of that 20km run.
The only advantage to this technology is that it can be deployed using an unused copper pair, which is already installed everywhere that anyone would want DSL.
It sounds like Telstras cable plant is pretty shoddy. We have remote DSLAMS near the customers so that we can give them great speeds. Soon, we will be putting a bunch more in so that everyone can get ADSL2+. This crap that Telstra is using sounds like a massive cop-out. It's not going to last very long if you have 2+ (max 8!) users sharing 2.3MBit. You also have to remember, these are people that have been ITCHING to get highspeed because it has been unavailable for so long. When they get it, they will be using it a lot, which means it will suck for those sharing 2.3MBit with 8 people. Telstra should get their act together and start laying fibre. Then they can put REAL DSLAMs near each neighbourhood and do 8MBit with ADSL, or greater speeds with newer technologies. 2.3Mbit won't be highspeed for much longer.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
You may want to look into Speakeasy's NetShare service, if it's available in your area.
Basically, you get a T1 line (Free install + Free Router after $500 MIR) and split it with your neighbors wirelessly. You become the admin and set the price and speed for your neighbors, while Speakeasy handles the billing and credits you 80% of what your neighbors pay.
It's $460/month for a 1.5Mbps symmetrical connection, and you'd have to split that down to what you consider affordable -- but hell, anything beats dial-up.
I feel your pain, buddy.
I lived in Fairfax County when it was under the sway of Media General, then moved away for a few years, then moved back (at this point it was under Cox, which from what I've heard has the same reputation that MG had), then moved away again.
Since you're more familiar with the area than I am (making an assumption, possibly a wrong one, here), you might be able to answer this. Did MG simply go through a name change to become Cox, was their license revoked by the county, or did they simply merge/get bought by Cox? For all the crap they fed us for years when I lived there, I honestly hope it was the second. It always amazed me that one of the richest counties in the US had the shittiest cable system in the country (among counties that actually have cable systems, anyway.)
Yikes, and on a different but somewhat amusing note... I hit the preview button there, then went to check my email while I waited for the page to refresh... the first new message in my inbox is from someone whose last name is Cox!
Allegedly real newspaper headline from 1998:
Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge
I'm surprised nobody's referenced Verizon's FiOS so far !?!
Mozilla stole tabs from NetCaptor. So what? Right?
In most cases it's the local gov't that grants Comcast the 'franchise' to offer cable TV services in your location.
This is where I have filed my complaints.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
That's too bad. I live 3000km from Toronto, and I can get 7mb DSL or 7mb cable for less than $40/month. You really should talk to your telco about an infrastructure upgrade. I hear Ontario still has analog switching equipment.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
MG was bought by Cox...their TV service I don't even subscribe too. AFairfax Co actually wouldn't let Cox make changes because they promised to do stuff when they bought MG and then didn't. Fairfax held them accountable for making the digital cable tv rollout happen on schedule without a price increase. The fscking 2 line system was nothing more than a gauranteed $3/month box rental system. If you didn't rent the box the local OTA channels tuned in at 34, 35, 37, and 39! They even said over the phone, "Um, that's the way it comes from the satelllite"! Sheesh!
The Cable Internet service is another thing entirely, good speed, pretty much always on, and just plug and play usage. I've been in 3 different locations for cable service, and all have 3mb+ down speeds consistently. at $55/month it isn't that cheap, but I'll pay it for the reliability I've seen from them.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
That would be a lousy installer. The cable internet jack is supposed to be off the first split, then the TVs.
;-)
The 'fun' part is they send the weaker of the signals to the Cable Modem...because 'god forbid' they lose TV signal. Yet the TVs are wildly less sensitive.
My installer blatantly told me, "Once I leave, switch these around"
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
In that case, the cable modem was simply plugged into an existing cable outlet, the installer didn't do anything else. However, I've seen them use the cheap crappy splitters which cause a 6dB loss instead of the more expensive 3.5dB ones.
> (i've never ever seen it sync beyond 608 kbps. strangly the upstream is steady between 608 and 640 kbps ...)
It's not strange at all. Residential DSL these days tends to follow the g.DMT spec. That specification places the upchannel frequencies at the lower end of the spectrum allocated for the DSL connection. It happens that lower frequencies survive longer distances for DSL purposes. Effectively, this means that the downchannel suffers first due to length/line conditions, degrading from 8Mbps down to no sync. Through most of that downchannel degredation, the frequencies reserved at the bottom for upchannel remain fully/mostly available. It's not until your downchannel is really suffering that the upchannel starts to degrade.
Other DSL implimentations interlaced upchannel and downchannel frequencies throughout the allocated spectrum.
"Oh no... he found the
Our phone company here's on strike. I discovered from various DSL resellers that I need basic phone service to have a DSL line. Basic service from Telus is $29.99 /mo + DSL $29.99
/mo; voip: $15/mo... $11 if I buy their hardware.
So I got cable and voip. Cable: $37.99
Oh, and no installation charges for voip. Telus wanted $100.
I'm still $7/mo + $100 ahead. DSL blows, at least in my area.
Plus, Shaw cable doesn't block inbound port 80 and 21 like DSL does.
I'm on a rant. This is OT. Moderators will damn me haha...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
It's not really logical, but a fear of radiofrecuencies damaging our brains can be the answer.
Just read about how zealots fight evolution and put those zealots into marketing...
Ohh wait, they already are !!
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
www.extel.com.au
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Just last week, the cable guy came to fix my Internet, as the cable modem had stopped working. Nothing had changed in our configuration, but apparently the signal had been reduced out on the pole.
I say that because his fix was exactly what your GP post said: replace the crappy connectors with expensive ones. He explained that the one splitter he put where it enters the house was a 7/7/3.5 splitter, and he put the cable modem connection on the output with only a 3.5 dB degradation. I haven't had a problem since.
If necessary, one can put a two-way splitter where it enters the house and run a separate cable up to the cable modem. TVs don't show degradation nearly as much as cable modems do, so the extra splitter won't have any effect on one's TV viewing.
(I just now read your parent post, and it says similar things to the above, so I think that's correct and will leave them as is.)
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Other DSL implimentations interlaced upchannel and downchannel frequencies throughout the allocated spectrum.
My DSL provider can adjust the upstream bandwidth independantly of the downstream to allow the modem to "sync" more solidly - especially helpful because they lease lines from SBC (Satanic Bell Corporation) - so they end up getting the copper pair that turned green a long time ago.
Have ADSL control on the line - but keeping the overall package speeds of a SDSL keeps me happy. 1meg up and down for less than $50/month.
I'm 13kft from the CO - they had to adjust my line to 1Meg down / 768k up to get the signal strong enough.
That, and my service has been out for less than 24 hours in 3 years... This is enough to keep me from switching to higher download speed of cable.
Longer ranges, higher speeds - and the possibility of FTC - bring it on Telcos, we want it!!!
Just to clear some things up. The Extel expandsl solution uses SHDSL as the backhaul, not T1, E1 or anything else. The 20kms is possible because there can be up to three separate spans of SHDSL leading out to the Remote DSLAM (possible due to the use of up to two SHDSL regenerators), followed by one span of ADSL from the DSLAM to the customer. All the equipment is powered over the copper pairs. Consult your standard SHDSL and ADSL rate-reach graphs to confirm that three spans of SHDSL plus one span of ADSL can easily reach 20kms. There is no magic, and no special DSL being used here. Defintely no lies or stretching of truth as claimed by one person who says they are in the industry, so should know better. The 20kms starts from where the "exchange unit" is - essentially anywhere there is power and shelter. This point can be an Exchange (Central Office in USA language) or cabinet (Remote Terminal in USA language). Currently, Telstra have chosen to use the solution only from exchanges. Each of the eight customers shares the backhaul, which (mainly for reasons related to Australian regulation of DSL spectrum management) Telstra has chosen to operate at 1.5Mb/s. This is no different to the sharing of backhaul that happens in conventional DSLAM installations. Some telecommunications carriers put up to 50-60 customers on a single 1.5Mb/s T1/E1. Telstra's deployment rules state that no more than 12 customers can share a single 2Mb/s E1. So those of you who think you're getting a dedicated (not shared) internet connection - 99% of you are wrong. The remaining 1% would be getting a business-class DSL service. There's been a lot of work put into technology and standards that allows this "statistical multiplexing" to work. e.g so that customers doing a big download will not unfairly block other customers. Finally, those of you berating the system for not providing sufficient bandwidth, and/or not using fibre ... the bottom line is fibre costs thousands of dollars per km/mile to deploy. Carriers usually can't justify this expense in rural areas where there are not enough customers to recoup the cost from.
Extel's expandsl system does the best that is possible using the existing copper infrastructure. At least it provides a DSL to customers where the only other option has been dial-up.
I also would like some broadband here in rural New Mexico. Arrgh.
I mean, doesn't 15 centimeters sound a lot more impressive than 6 inches?
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Yes I tried the "DSL-Extender". I rubbed the creme on my DSL modem but it only made my hand bigger.
Today dns resolves, ping is answered, traceroute works, and their web page opens on my browser.
Applause to extel for hooking back up to the internet! (Or... maybe something else mysteriously happened?)
If is fabbed by TI (Texas Instruments) then yes, they'll have you covered.
I talk to my local telstra person.
It no longer exists and the people that could get it are angry as telstra has taken everthing back
My Transformation Website
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