Slashdot Mirror
Sony Describes DS As Gimmick
1up.com has news, via MCVUK, that PSP VP of Studios Phil Harrison has classified Nintendo's entry into the handheld market as 'irrelevant'. From the article: "The idea of a handheld rivalry with Nintendo is an irrelevance...Those formats don't appear in our planning. It's not a fair comparison; not fair on them, I should stress. That sounds arrogant, maybe, but it's the truth." 1up.com's commentary is well seen. From their piece: "Whether or not you fully agree, Nintendo DS can come off as gimmicky, but Sony's commentary is fairly strange." Read on for my own short commentary.
I know that, for the most part, comments like Harrisons are just the marketing version of "my processor is faster than yours" but I'm honestly surprised at the level of arrogance displayed there. Since the PSP's launch, Slashdot Games has posted article after article with titles like PSP Reception Lukewarm in U.S., PSP Not A Sellout Hit, What's Up With The PSP?, and most recently PSP Usage Lower Than Expected. This last article is especially disheartening for Sony execs because those numbers come from Japan, a nation that has traditionally been Sony's bread basket. If it's not doing well here, and it's not doing well there...do they really think that many Europeans are going to buy it when it launches there next week?
Go figure.
That is why the PSP, the superior product, is outselling the DS worldwide...
Wait a minute...
when a country is entertained and will readily buy things such as blood pudding, jellied eels, Spotted Dick, liver and lights, and kidney pie, I am willing to wait and SEE if they will buy it, as opposed to assuming I know what they will do.. they've already suprised me in soo many ways.
I think the psp is great, and I will buy one.. I am just waiting for movies I actually LIKE.. I'm more of an indie / forien flick kinda guy. So x-mas will tell me when or if I should buy.
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
Sorry to point out the obvious but isn't Sony one of Nintendo's competitors in the handheld market? Company A saying bad things to discredit company B? Unheard of!
Erm... the DS is Nintendo's "entry" into the handheld market??? I've got a 15 year old gameboy that says otherwise. (Hell, didn't the old Game & Watches even precede that?)
The only thing I hate more than hypocrites are people who hate hypocrites.
the price tag is not
Have you metaroderated recently?
Harrison merely said that the DS' touch-screen was a gimmick, not that the DS itself was a gimmick.
He also said that the DS was not part of Sony's planning as well as it shouldn't be. He believes they're targetting different markets, so why should it?
Way too much irrelevant Sony hatred. Sony does stupid things, but not everything they do is stupid.
Of course if you want to glorify the "technical race" over gimicky things like novel methods of input (like joysticks and d-pads?) than PCs have the dedicated gaming systems beat hands down.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Gimmick or not... ...a new game-console relies almost entirely
on the number of hot titles for the gamers
to enjoy.
Sure...the PSP is a great looking handheld
gaming device, lot's of cool features and
a solid backing by a company that already
rocked our world with the first "worthy"
proprietary 3d chip (Playstation the original)
back some years ago.
When it comes to gaming pleasure, I'd belive
the Nintendo DS would do really well too
because of the touch screen...just look at
that new "pet" game where you have a live "3d"
dog you can "touch" and play with that have
been taking Japan by storm, now that's innovative
but It might be a tad bit late...because
Nintendo took a LONG time to release cool
games for it's new baby. And I think PSP
will stand a lot stronger in that area, better
hardware too. But the point remains....it's
all about the games.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
...but the PSP is worse because of the expense, proprietariness, DRM, crappy battery life, and Sony's customer-hostile attitude.
The way I see it, the pinnacle of handheld gaming is the GameBoy Advance SP.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I was going to type a lengthy retort to all you sony burning nintendo fanboys with my psp's built in browser but..i'm....running ..out ~!#()@$ batteryyy.y........
Sounds like the remarks of a desperate man, If there is one thing that Nintendo know about it's the handheld market, They've dominated it for so long.
I think Sony have missed the point about battery life and original software something which saw the end of the Game Gear and the Atari Lynks(sp?)
Is the PSP technically superior to the DS? Yes, Was the Game Gear technically superior to the Game Boy? Yes. Which console won?
I have to agree. The dual screen rarely brings anything to the device that a larger screen or better use of existing screen real-estate doesn't. I hate the second screen in that respect, because it constantly diverts my attention from where it should be: the gameplay. There are a couple interesting uses for it, but I have yet to see any use of the second screen that justifies it.
That being said, the rest of the device is a dream. The games that have come out for it (or are right around the corner) are almost always sure winners: Nintendogs, Kirby, the new Sonic, the new Mario, Castlvania, the upcoming Animal Crossing, Lost in Blue, Meteos, Advance Wars DS... I held off on buying a DS until yesterday (a few run-ins with coworkers playing Nintendogs finally sold me), and I think the library of games and creativity shown in each one really, genuinely offers something new to gamers. This is mostly because of the stylus interface, but they use the wireless and flip-top covers in wierd unique ways as well.
The only thing else I could ask for would be that it played the old GB games, an analogue stick, and maybe a nice emulator (ala PSP). And considering that the PSP has all of those, that brings me to my point: the only reason the DS won me over for Portable Platform Money-Sink 2005(tm) was because the games are awesome.
The three-pronged controller was ackward?
Hold the train, somebody better be rewriting history.. many claim that the 64 controller hasn't been beat.
Um... for one, the consoles BEGIN as a loss leader (meaning that the company actually loses money for each console sold.) As the price of hardware manufacturing drops (as it *always* does over time), they start to make profit on the console instead of just the games. When they want to give their market a good jump start, they then decide to lose money on the consoles again...
E = m * c^(Hammer)
"Is Sony really so arrogant as to think that the PSP is far and away superior to the DS?"
Was there any legitimate excuse for DS not having FULL wi-fi capability at launch? I don't even mean being able to hack it and use a web browser like PSP, I mean playing online games with people all over world using free wi-fi at Starbucks.
Sony has every right to not think of Nintendo as a threat in the new handheld market: Nintendo, once again, dropped the ball when it comes to ONLINE GAMING.
Since the PSP's launch, Slashdot Games has posted article after article with titles like PSP Reception Lukewarm in U.S., PSP Not A Sellout Hit, What's Up With The PSP?, and most recently PSP Usage Lower Than Expected.
Lemme fix that for you there, Zonker.
"Since the PSP's launch, Zonk has posted article after article with titles like PSP Reception Lukewarm in U.S., PSP Not A Sellout Hit, What's Up With The PSP?, and most recently PSP Usage Lower Than Expected. "
Let's count the corpses left in the wake of Nintendo's (almost always) "inferior" hardware:
Game Gear
Nomad
Lynx
That portable TurboGrafix16 (Name anybody?)
Wonderswan, Wonderswan crystal / color
GP32
NeoGeo pocket, NeoGeo Pocket color
Tapwave Zodiac
Ngage
That's just a short list off the top of my head, I'm sure that there are others that a more thorough search would reveal.
The PSP is simply not in the right price/battery life/durability range for most people to be attracted to it. It will do well with the money-to-burn crowd and with the hard-core gamers who buy everything, price be damned. As for the casual gamer that is the bread and butter of the industry, I forsee it remaining sort of "meh".
"Cheeze it!" - Bender
what, a new, incompatable movie playing format on a portable gaming system isn't a gimic then?
Ce n'est pas une signature automatique.
-----
A request for Nintendo to open up the GB DS
(BTW, is any of this even possible?)
(Please note that while there is some comparisons between the Nintendo DS (DS) and the Sony Personal PlayStation (PSP) my comments should not be construed as a judgment on which unit has better games or is better for gaming. My comments and ideas are limited to the DS' ability to be expanded past it's current usage, which could possibly expand it's total customer base, and not about corporately generated games. While I mention Python as the interpreter of choice, Ruby should also be strongly considered. BTW, I know the name sucks but I'm sure someone will come up with something better.)
The "App-Yan"
I propose that Nintendo makes or allow someone else to make a device that fits into the DS game slot on the DS which allows users to run Python applications. Applications would be stored and loaded from a removable SD card.
The "App-Yan" parts:
Hardware:
External housing design and dimensions: the dimensions would very similar to the "Play-Yan", Nintendo's mp3/mpeg4 player that fits into the GBA slot on the DS.
SD or SDIO slot: Python scripts and/or related data files would be stored here. No propriety software should be required to copy files to and from the SD card. Open data standards should be used whenever possible. Also somewhat similar to the "Play-Yan".
>256M non removable internal flash memory: This would be used for the storage of the Python interpreter et al and, at the user's choice, Python scripts or related data.
A/D converter on the "professional" model: It's about expanding the DS and a "professional" version with multiple A/D converters would expand the DS' use, for example, for automated data collection.
Software:
Python interpreter: the Python interpreter, a signed Nintendo application, would be stored on the App-Yan's internal flash memory. It could be updated by Nintendo to address security flaws and bugs. Scripts could be run allowing for a text output or with a full GUI. GUI objects could be accessed from either the DS' internal GUI widgets or from standardized custom widgets accompanied with the interpreter.
Signed script validator: Some groups have the need to ensure their scripts arrive at the user's DS unmodified. A built in public key signature system could be used to insure scripts arrive as they were intended.
Why the DS?
The DS, like previous versions of the GB, is well designed and a nearly indestructible device. They have been successfully used in environments that normally would kill off similar electronic devices. The closest example of a device that can stand up to similar abuse would possible be a "hardened" PDA (either Palm of PocketPC OS based in a custom enclosure) costing at least four times the cost of the DS/AY (DS with an "App-Yan" device). The DS' low cost, durability and touch screens make it an ideal candidate for this project over other portable devices. The use of a GB for nongaming use is hardly new. The Singer Izek sewing machine (now out of production) used a GB as a stitch and pattern controller.
What's the benefit to Nintendo?
This project would expand the current customer base and places used. Many would say the "holy grail" of a portable gaming system is to allow for its use in a public school setting. This might be possible using the "dynamically generated exams" example sited below. While the DS performs well as a portable gaming system added uses would generate additional console sales which would generate added games sales. While Nintendo is still the king of the overall handheld gaming market, the Sony PSP has presented itself as extremely strong competition. With Sony's le
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Quite frankly, I think I'd prefer the new GPX2 over either of them. It's the successor to the superb GP32, and plays Xvid, Divx Ogg (and others), out of the box, has 128Mb and an SD slot, USB2, 8 hours of battery time for video playback (2xAA batteries), runs Linux, and actually has emulators (MAME etc.) on the feature list!
They highly encourage homebrew software.
in the last three months there have been six games released for the PSP, thats two a month!
I own a PSP and am very disappointed that the only good games were the launch titles, and many of those games were ports (Tony Hawks Underground 2, Darkstalkers). And I didnt buy a Nintendo DS because I thought nobody was releasing games for it. The sad part is that a bunch of interesting games are out right now in Japan, Some RPGS, which the PSP in America has none of, Astonishia Story, Breath of Fire III, although america is getting one in november, that is a while to wait. Also Japan has just seen some other games released such as Star Soldier, Megaman Dash, Taiko No Tatsujin, Sengoku Ace III-Sengoku Cannon, Heaven Key Earth Gate, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Popolocrois ponogatari, Shin Mimi Bukuro, Higanjima. Thats not a complete list, those are just the ones that looked interesting to me!
If sony actually cared about this system, why only release six games in the three months after releasing it? What kind of half-baked strategy is that? Even the prospect of using it for webbrowsing or emulators doesnt seem all that tempting compared to the increasing amount of quality software that seems to be comming out for the nintendo DS, if only the Nintendo DS wasnt the size of a brick I might buy one.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nintendo the PIONEER of the handheld market?
NEC was. It took the rest of the industry 10 years to catch up to the turbografx handheld.
Was there any legitimate excuse for DS not having FULL wi-fi capability at launch?
The Nintendo DS does have full Wi-Fi. It's just that none of the current games use IP over Wi-Fi.
I don't even mean being able to hack it and use a web browser like PSP, I mean playing online games with people all over world using free wi-fi at Starbucks.
One problem is that you'd have to use a web browser in order to connect to some hotspots in restaurants and elsewhere, as they will route your packets to the Internet only if you can connect to an SSL web page and read and accept the TOS. Some even need you to enter a code printed on the receipt. That's part of why Nintendo wanted to roll out its own hotspot network before launching IP capable games.
Even Nintendo regards the DS as just a gimmicky, experimental product and pushes it as a separate architecture from their flagship Game Boy line. So, what's really gimmicky here is the GBA backwards-compatibility in the DS, just to provide it with a temporary library of games to start up with.
Just play Pac-Pix or Kirby Canvas Curse and you'll see the DS has a future, albeit in its own niche. Furthermore, the touchscreen and the microphone make the DS better suited for Internet gaming than the PSP, however sexy the latter might be. I know the PSP can use external USB devices, but we all know how the market responds to add-ons.
Sony is just jealous that Nintendo's gimmick product is outselling theirs worldwide, and is actually making a profit. Now imagine when Nintendo announces the next-gen Game Boy.
The big N's next-gen handheld could use an architecture similar to the Gamecube (as has been rumored) so that the development environment can be shared between the GCN, the Revolution and the GBA2. Things are not going to get any easier for Sony. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the PSP2 comes with an embedded mic and a touchscreen.
Now don't take me wrong, I have both devices and love them, but Sony trying to make a stupid comparison at this point can only backfire.
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
Even though he said it was "well seen" he didn't bother showing it to us? Even though the ONLY THING SLASHDOT DOES IS LINK TO OTHER SITES IT STILL FAILS AT IT?!?!?
Go figure.
You can do WiFi in a peer-to-peer manner, you know.
A lot of existing Nintendo DS games do use the ad hoc mode of 802.11b.
If a device can speak 802.11b, it can act as an access point.
I thought that in order to act as an access point to a given network, a device had to be able to speak both 802.11b and the layer 2 used by the network (one of Ethernet, DOCSIS, and DSL).
Basically, everyone's holding up their games for Christmas, because why release in August if you can sell three times as much in November?
This has really wiped out the PSP as a platform for the time being, though. Lumines is great but it's not $300 great, and there's nothing else I want, even a little.
They really should have done the mass-portage, best of PS1/PS2, and dribbled the stuff out until Christmas.
Sure its a little gimmicky...so is the PSP. They added all of these features and look what happens...people use it other than to play their games. Also, this shrunken down PS2 is seems to be a dump for ports,rehash after rehash.I already own a PS2 and dont need another one. Meanwhile...back at headquarters, Nintendo said lets make a game with dogs that you can talk to and touch with our new gimmicky 2nd screen and bang its a hit. What about that new surgery game thats coming out, use the stylus to operate...gimmicky but again its a hit. Sony needs original titles that are fun, period.
I just bought a DS the other day. It doesn't seem like much of a gimmick to me. The games are solid, and the touch screen is innovative. It's also $100 cheaper (in Canada at least). So far, the game selection looks better. Other than the GTA game, there's no advantage the PSP has in terms of upcoming games. Also, I think Sony has a lot of balls calling anything a gimmick when part of their strategy involves people buying special copies of movies, and watching them on a small screen.
If you look back at handheld gaming history, I don't think *any* "widescreen" format (system oriented horizontally instead of vertically) has ever been a big hit.
Game Boy Advance sold well even before the SP came out.
So what PSP games are you playing with your friends over the internet?
None, right? Which PSP games support infrastructure wireless co-op or VS play?
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Sony must have hired the former Iraqi Minister for Information for their PR.
"The DS is no threat to our superior PSP! Our valiant PSP will outsell it at every turn!"
I don't see any posters at this time who have recognized Zonk's post for what it is -- an attempt for Slashdot to be more than just a blog. The last major push for that backfired, nobody liked what Jon Katz had to say. Since day 1, Slashdot has been an approval system for links that we the readership submit. The editors have made some attempts to editorialize and have occasionally been flamed for it, but the editorials have been very light and Slashdot's readership has been flat for over a year.
Slashdot can continue to mature and grow readership by doing a little research. Dig up some links from the past and make a comment. Zonk could have taken a small step in either direction by posting how well (or not) the DS has done to continue to refute Sony's stance (or show that the issue is still unresolved).
Thanks, Zonk, for taking a small step in the right direction. We don't want a Slashdot newspaper, over-editorializing everything, but some light commentary would entice readers to get our feet wet in new subjects and make Slashdot an easier read for new visitors.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=14588 3
The DS is outselling the PSP by 4 times in Japan and has a 1.2 million unit lead worldwide. "Irrelevant" my foot.
The DS's firmware isn't flashable in it's normal form, so games can NEVER update the firmware to stop hacks. Once something is working on your DS it will work forever no matter what game you buy in the future.You can still flash the firmware to get rid of the stupid epilepsy warning and allow DS code to run from the GBA cart.
The red DSs that were just released in China and Japan have an updated firmware that disables older hacks, but those have already been worked around.
Sony: I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Which PSP games support infrastructure wireless co-op or VS play?
Ummm... What is Twisted Metal a PSP launch title? How much did I win Alex?
People don't always buy the superior product
No kidding.
Sony's managed to out-hype and out-market 2 of its game platform competitors now, with a somewhat (or majorly) inferior product.
Depending on how you look at it, the PS1 demolished both the N64 and Dreamcast - and really, it wasn't superior to either. Whether it was load times or sheer graphic capabilities, the PS1 was a pretty dreadful platform except for the fact that everyone had one, and it had thousands of mediocre games released.
The PS2 was the final nail in the Dreamcast coffin, and at the time most DC games looked and played far better than PS2 fare. The PS2 is still leading the Xbox and Gamecube in sales.
Maybe Sony's just finally getting a taste of their own medicine.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
I believe the reference was to the weird little GameBoy Micro they just released; and I'm inclined to agree with the Sony guy actually, it is a gimmick.
I disagree. I think it's a well-placed shot at the low-end and cell phone game playing crowd. It's cheap, it's small, it looks pretty slick, and it's got a HUGE library of games. Let's face it: for most people the PSP and the DS are big and expensive. And if you just want something to fill that 10 minute gap before the subway comes, neither system's games don't have enough pick up and play value. The GBA fits the bill perfectly.
Zonk posts an article that he disagrees with so that he can give his rebuttal opinion by listing a handful of previous dissenting stores that were posted by... Zonk.
Well great. We know where Zonk stands. Now why can't we mod him down for redundancy?
I don't want to end up making 5 posts here so let's just get all my opinions out in one post
SNES > GameCube > Dual Shock > NES > N64 >> XBox-s >>>> Xbox
SNES: Small and confortable, pretty simple but has enough buttons.
Gamecube: Big A button gives easy access to both B and Y buttons without having to move your thumb much. Comfy overall and I like the little C-stick.
Dual Shock: The sticks are a unconfortable for me, but the digital pad is great for most games and the layout is easy to understand.
N64: I didn't like how most games forced use of the stick, making the third prong annoying deadweight. The sticks wore out pretty badly after a while.
XBox S: A bit big, I don't really like how the triggers are behind the controller, it interferes with how I grip the controller. The buttons are way too small and bulbous for me.
XBox: Before the Xbox launch, Ed Fries (or someone else form MS) said "this controller tested perfectly in focus groups and we're not going to change it or make another one" or something similar. It's seriously one of the reasons I leaned away from the XBox (which was a good decision because since launch the console has been offering great games in genres I don't like).
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
That was exactly Nintendos intention. You can have hold it analog-button (for, say, Jump-N-Runs), digital-button (for example for puzzlers) or analog-digital (such as for FPS). That way, developers are forced not to use too many buttons. You may like this or not, but for most non-hardcore gamers, it's a great idea.
I believe the reference was to the weird little GameBoy Micro they just released; and I'm inclined to agree with the Sony guy actually, it is a gimmick.
No, if you RTFA, you'll see that he was specifically talking about the touch screen on the DS.
As for the GBA Micro, it is not a gimmick, but it is nothing special--merely another edition of the GBA that offers a more convenient size--small enough for people to carry around routinely, like they do a cell phone. As such, it will compete with the cell phone gaming market, which Nintendo may see as more significant competition for the GBA than the Sony PSP. The Micro also differentiates the GBA from the DS, and demonstrates to developers Nintendo's continuing support of the GBA platform.