Slashdot Mirror
My Life As An Online Gamer
The BBC is running a story featuring several interviews with hard-core online gamers. The article is in response to China's time limit restriction it plans to put into effect for MMOGs. From a very confused man interviewed in the article: " I think I am addicted. I've got to the stage where I feel that without gaming, I have nothing interesting to do. On weekdays, I game for about five to seven hours a day and in the weekends I will spend 15 hours a day gaming online. I once spent 48 hours in one go at a game. It's crazy, I know. I was at university then and full of energy. "
Wow, I just thought about the possible extra pain this would cause a gamer... Say you're approaching your 3 hour mark, then that super glowing all-powerful hatchet of mercyless death weidling gelatinious cube spawns... You start hacking away, get it down to 25% health, down a few more pots.... Link dead.
Come back the next day and you're respawned back in qeynos, lost exp, lost $$$, lost your group and wasted 3 hours.
Damn, that'll put a hurtin' on gamers awerite!
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
"Brandon Hipsher, who lives in Indiana, says that gaming is no more addictive than watching television... Why is gaming considered addictive when other activities are not?"
I don't think he's helping his argument with that one.
what personal problems do these people have that make them want to spend so much time in gaming?
Want them to stop playing? Get them a psychologist. Addiction is only a symptom.
Zonk: My Life As An Online Gamer (or) Why I Am Such A Loser!
Everybody gets wrapped up in one thing or another. Sometimes people obsess over their jobs. Sometimes it is over a boyfriend or girlfriend. A new pet, a tv series, a sports game, cleaning the house, exercising, whatever.
Sometimes the first time you try something you really like, you get addicted for a long while before it finally gets old for you. This is not exclusive to video games by any means.
I don't think there's a psychologist alive that wouldn't say this is unhealthy, and probably a sign of a mental disorder.
My older brother got kicked out of the military for high blood pressure in February. Since then he's not found a job and he's not even considering going back to school.
He's 26, lives at my parent's house, and he plays computer games for about 14 hours a day (15 if you count the breaks for eating and such), 7 days a week.
I'm so freak jealous.
Latewire
I know, basically every enjoyable activity (with a slight twist of mind even every non-enjoyable one) can be addictive. But there are some modificators to apply for MMORPGS:
1. The +1 Syndrome (aka carrot-on-a-stick)
There is always an desirable item, either in game or social terms, about to be gained by you if you just invest 'a couple of minutes'. Over and over again. And the hunters and gatherers in us love accumulating anything of value, perceived or real.
2. Teamwork
There was a story once, I think even on Slashdot, about the brain and some glands releasing neurotransmitters similar in structure to cocaine, which can be quite physically addictive. Hence the cooperative PvE game is so popular and the lovely term 'Evercrack' isn't too far off.
3. Freedom of aesthetics and personality
The distraction from personal deficits and choice of visual appeal and, within limits, personality. Only few of us are really self-confident in all aspects or ignorant or arrogant enough to not care about our deficits. Online worlds are a welcome escape. And the more immersive they are, the better the escape they provide.
4. Community
People having a hard time communicating and bonding in RL can take advatage of 3. and built some kind of bond online, which as substitutes for a difficult and/or flawed real life can become subjectively important to the playing person, driving them to spend even more time online. There are other factors playing into it, but I think these are among the most important ones.
"I think I am addicted."
... get some help.
I think you're in denial. The fact that you included the words "I think" in there was the first clue. Dude, 5-7 hours of gaming a day? 15 on the weekend? Seriously
... is it legal to use these two words in the same sentence?
Diablo II is a good example of a game which has always reminded me of the VI reinforcement schedule. You click, mostly mindlessly, but not so mindlessly as to not be entertained, and then are rewarded incrementally on a either highly variable schedule with very high rewards in the form of new pretty special effects or weapons, or a very consistent schedule with lower rewards in the form of experience and gold.
Eventually, the chances of finding a new item that's usable or gaining a level become few and far between, but by that time, behavior will persist for quite a long time. Think about it. Would you ever keep playing if you immediately had a level in duration like level 30 is? It's just basic reinforcement.
Just a thought.
The articles and replies are dropping the word addition around like they are armchair psychologists. Perhaps critics see a computer resembling a television, and they don't bother understanding the underlying functions. While there are some people who might use gaming to escape from their other responsibilities (like any other form of escape), the choice to participate is just that -- a choice.
What are some reasons people would choose to participate in these online activities? Communication - no other mechanism allows people around the world to work together in-real-time to accomplish goals. Players improve communication skills to improve their game and interact with people of all different backgrounds. Teamwork - Getting involved with an epic quest that involves 5-40 other people is exhillarating. Leadership - Forming groups, clans, guilds, and partnerships is easy and fun. Players learn how to direct others while keeping the groups together. Entertainment - Games are the top-of-the-line graphical and technical achievements. Movies and many books cannot compare to the cinematics and story lines in popular games. Expenses - For as much as $50 up-front cost and $15 a month, you are allowed unlimited participation in ever-changing entertainment. Organization and Critical Thinking - Games require fast reactions, understanding complex rule-sets, and using and even creating websites. After an intense game session, you might even feel mentally exhausted.
Comparing this to addictions like smoking is ludicrous. Smoking not only has no personal value, but it is are detrimental to one's health. Gaming is safe and cheap, and there are many qualities that can improve a player's lifestyle.
I know of someone who was involved with a three month in-game leadership program. Their clan used voice communications and protocols so that twenty or more players could be lead effectively. The conclusion of this training was an epic battle where the student would lead three groups of twenty at once (60 players) and coordinate strategies for each group. This is clearly an activity that improved the gamer's well-being, while others of his age were out in smoky bars drinking each night away. Gaming, in this case, generated life-long skills.
People who would force someone, causing no problems for anyone -- including their own self, to seek psychological attention, should themselves get some immediate psychological attention.
This is something I've never understood. I've heard many people refer to their need to play games as a means to release from life, but I've never experienced this. I seriously do not think people play games to escape the hardships of life. In fact, if you can play a videogame for fifteen hours a day, it's pretty apparent there's no such things as hardships in your life. But beyond this, I've been playing games off and on for years, but never once used it to relieve stress. No, I played for fun.
I'm tending to think that people call their gaming needs as an avenue of relief, probably as a justification to them spending so much time playing. Instead of wasting so much time playing, a better suggestion would be to work on the problems that are apparantely 'causing' you to play so much. If the brutalities of life are weighing in, then a videogame is no substitute for paying attention to your issues.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
...people who read books in their spare time? I know some people who read as much as I play video games, yet they are considered "studious" and we are considered addicts.
It's not that I don't enjoy engaging in social activity, because that's what I do all the time when I'm playing games. I'm talking on teamspeak to my friends, some of which I know in real life. The fact is, gaming is cheap. I can sit in my room and play a game for 100 hours a month for 6 months and only pay that initial $30-40 for the purchase. That's like what, less than 10 cents an hour? While other people might enjoy going out and getting drunk and playing pool, I would rather enjoy my time off from work sitting at home fragging. I still go out with friends sometimes, and I can get along with people as well as the next person at work, if not better after dealing with all the assholes you meet online. It's not really a problem the way I see it. It's just a different way of spending your time. Because of it, my reflexes are uncanny. At work I'll catch a box falling off a shelf before someone even realizes what's happening. They think I'm some sort of ninja sometimes. This "addiction" is only a problem when you can't live a normal life because all you want to do is play video games. We want to get to the next level just like an avid reader wants to get to the next chapter in their book. Maybe some of these addicts are actually just agorabphobics which use gaming as their outlet? It's probably better for them to be online talking to people and interacting with players than sitting at home watching TV, worrying about what will happen to them next time they leave the house.
Maybe this will even out the playing field. Making rare items less easily achievable. It may suck rocks with a time ban, but it may cut down on buisnesses mining items and gold for profit. Either way, I don't mind.
Media Artist - 3dhansen.com
I was just amazed. It seems that games can and do teach valuable leadership skills. And, as an American business person, I'm glad to see the competition (China) limit its own resources. What I'm afraid of, is our government doing the same thing - with gaming or otherwise.
- I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
Personally, I found the news of the Chinese law to be unsurprising because that's what those scumbags do all the time: Take control from individuals and transfer it to the government for "the common good" - well, that and imprison/execute their citizens who disagree with them...
The idea that people in the "western" world would be on board with this concept freaks me out a bit. But, maybe I'm over-reacting. Maybe it would be a good thing if the government got some more legislation out there to control our free time. After all, we can never have too much government intervention in our lives, right?
The sedentary lifestyle that comes from multi-hour gaming sessions IS detrimental to your health.
If people could get away with playing these games only a few hours a week, you might have a point. But these games are specifically tailored to reward those who spend UNHEALTHY amounts of time playing them.
Comparing vice to vice ("others of his age were out drinking")is pointless. Yeah drinking is unhealthy. That doesn't magically make gaming addiction healthy.
Don't go around claiming the online game lifestyle is healthy and that its detractors are "Armchair Psychologists" unless you yourself are willing to back up your claims with some evidence. Just because psychological attention shouldn't be forced on someone doesn't mean they wouldn't benefit greatly from it.
Let me briefly talk about friends online. I've made some posts about gaming addiction in other places, but this is something that really deserves it's own special place.
You can make friends online. Yeah. You can. As I type this, I'm listening to six people talk to each other-- about everything, Counter-Strike among topics, on TeamSpeak, a VoIP chat software. One of those people go to school with me. All of them, I'd consider a true friend.
Yeah, it started with a (now defunct) CS team. But we're friends. Even when I'm not gaming, I'm on TeamSpeak, and I talk to my friends. I love these guys.
It's not all about gaming, but the friends you can make through gaming*.
- dshaw
*: Yeah, I know this isn't the case for everyone, and there are "real" addicts. However, it's true that for a lot of online gamers, this is part of the cause of 'addiction'.
The thing is, people simply need to do something with their time. You can't just sit and look at the walls.
That's one thing that needs to be understood first. In the 1600's, you needed to spend 16 hours on the fields to even have enough to eat, then one or more of the following, depending on gender: hack your own firewood, patch your own roof, cook, spin and weave, patch clothes, spend hours washing clothes by hand, make your own soap, etc.
There wasn't that much of a need for daily entertainment, since you didn't actually have any time left to fill in an average day.
Since the 1900's, and especially since the mid-1900's, however, less and less of that is actually needed. You buy your clothes, not spin, weave and tailor your own crude shirts. You don't spend hours scrubbing the clothes by hand, you just chuck them in the washing machine. Heck, you don't even really need to cook if you don't want to.
There is a gradient that's very perceptible. When you listen to someone's stories along the lines of "back in my day, we had to walk to school 4 miles through snow, and we only got 6 hours of sleep after feeding the cows and chicken", they're probably not exaggerating. They actually had to. But we don't.
This, however, leaves us with more free time that we just have to fill with something. That's one thing that all those "back in my day we'd milk the cows instead of sitting on our arses and watching TV" nostalgics just don't seem to understand. Yes, they had to milk the cows and do all sorts of other tasks. I don't. It would cost me more to actually have a cow in my flat, than the milk is worth. This leaves me with time to fill with _something_ or I'd go nuts.
Some people fill it with hours after hours of tinkering on their car, some people fish, some people spend it at the pub, some people waste hours and money making digital photos, etc. And some of us use computer games. That's all.
Yes, some of them are waved around as inherently better ways, or more socially acceptable ways, to spend your time. But guess what? They're all nevertheless just ways to keep yourself busy. Don't kid yourself that going out fishing or spending hours on your car gets you some l33t survival skills or saves you this huge heap of money or whatever. They're skills that have exactly the same use as my button mashing skills: to keep you busy and entertained.
It's not decadence or some mental deffect or whatever other bullshit being waved around, it's just that humans weren't made to sit and stare at the walls. That's all.
The gradient is even more visible in countries that didn't get a head start, and had/have a faster evolution there. E.g., China. This just creates bigger generation conflicts between the granddad who still remembers manually planting rice in the swamp all day long, and the "lazy, addicted" grandson who just watches TV for hours.
And the result are such lame attempts to "protect" the youth from this newfangled waste of time. I don't think it's some evil Chinese government plot, but just a bunch of 80 year old nostalgics who just don't understand the issue.
Guess what? There's nothing to "protect" them from. They'll still have X hours a day to fill, and they won't go milk the cows like in the good ol' days in those hours. So they'll find some other entertainment, but still spend those hours on entertainment.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The real problem is the root cause, not the symptom. We live in a meaningless society: broken families, wage slavery, cubicles, lack of community, dead gods, no religion. What else is there to believe in? We are all desperate rodents, clinging to anything that might grant us brief solace from the meaningless of life. In modern times, nihilism is the only truth. Beyond your computer there is nothing, only death.
I would have expected more from BBC. Four people have been selected to represent "gamers" to talk about online games, and all of them are clearly hardcore, addicted gamers. Most people who play online games are not addicted and dont spend nearly as much time on games as these people. How can an article give a fair impression on online gamers when they have interviews only from the extreme types?
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong." H.L. Mencken
What I'm trying to say is that usually when you feel a need to reach for the usual universal nerd explanations like "because they're all idiots" or "because they all have some major mental problem", that ought to be your clue that you're talking out the ass and most likely haven't even _begun_ to understand what's really going on.
It's getting kinda tiresome to read the same rehashed pseudo-psychological BS, like (rephrased for brevity sake):
- "but you only play a muscled barbarian because you're ashamed/insecure/affraid of your body"
I'll call bullshit on that. I'm a munchkin, I play whatever has the best bonuses for my intended class. Yes, I play a Barbarian as my monk, but I also play a Dwarf as my paladin, a nerdy Erudite as my mage, and a thoroughly effeminate High Elf as my priest. I'd play a fat pimple-faced couch-potato, if that gave me better bonuses.
And, you know, there are games where your appearance doesn't give you any bonuses. E.g., City Of Heroes. Virtually all my characters there are simply variants of a nerd in jeans, a sweater or t-shirt, glasses and (for males) an unkempt beard. One of them even wears a suit and tie, just for gag's sake. But generally, none are anything I couldn't look like IRL with _very_ minimal effort. (E.g., going to the shop and actually buying a suit like that.)
- "buy you're in online games only because noone knows you there, and can't give you a reality check."
Well how's this for a reality check: probably the majority of people play online with some RL friends or at least aquaintances. E.g., every co-worker that plays EQ2 are members of the same guild and we all know who's behind which character. E.g., that that barbarian female with big breasts is a (male) coleague I see every day at work. He even jokes about us letting him win the "lottery" for loot because he's a woman.
And generally, I've been on MUDs, I've been on MMOs, I've been in FPS clans, and before all that I was on FidoNet. Knowing each other and/or occasionally meeting for a pint at the pub is rather the expected norm, not the rare exception.
- "but you prefer online communication because you're affraid of dealing with people in person."
Nope, I just prefer talking to people I share some interests with. There used to be a time when I'd take any boring (for me) topic, like the weather or football, simply because that was what was available in the immediate geographic proximity. The Internet, and FidoNet before it, allow me to skip those boring talks, and find a pool of people whose topics I'm actually interested in.
E.g., if I'd rather talk about siberian cats or ancient Egyptian history than about the neighbour's kids, or the other neighbour's football obsession, on the Internet I can immediately find enough people interested in the same thing. I can join a board, an IRC channel, a newsgroup, or whatever else dedicated to siberian cats or ancient egyptian history.
MMOs and generally online games are just such a "filter". There's a topic which you already know that people there will be interested in: that game itself. E.g., if I'm on EQ 2, chances are both me and the other guys/gals there are interested in it. That's a common interest to talk about.
And incidentally, it's not that different from the RL filters. E.g., if you go to a Metallica concert, you chances are most people there are interested in that genre. The Internet just enlarges the pool you can choose from.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
There are games which you can play on your reflexes alone. E.g., when I moved between UT to Quake 3 and then back to UT, I didn't lose my own reflexes in the process. You can be someone who just bought bought the game, and compete successfully with people who've played it for a year.
MMOs basically have this system where your character's "power" is simply a measure of how much time you've dumped into it. A character that's been played for 1000 hours is inherently more powerful than a character who's been played for 10 hours.
E.g., back when I've played COH, by the time I've reached level 35, some people I used to group with were just hitting level 20, while others were already level 50. E.g., in COH, two co-workers which started at the same time are respectively level 20 and 50. E.g., in WoW I had fun grouping with someone, but then she was level 30+ by the time I was level 15, on account of being a housewife with nothing better to do all day long.
I'm not even getting into the PvP aspect, but you just go out of sync with even people you liked cooperating with. You're not supposed to even be in the same area any more, because what's a "grey" enemy to one and gives no xp any more, is "red" for someone else and means instant one-hit death.
It's a race that only the most addicted, those who play 16 hours a day, can really keep up with. And it's turning off everyone else.
It's not that happy a situation for the game companies, either, because they have to provide enough content for the addicts. They have to have enough in that world so the 16-hour-a-day gamers don't plough through it all in a month and start whining that there's nothing left to do.
It's not even just the race itself, it's that when you have 50 levels and people playing 16 hours a day, you _have_ to stretch it all with those in mind. When you want those 50 levels to last for, oh, say at least 2 months for those, they'll take some 16 months for someone who only plays 2 hours a day. In the final levels they'll be faced with the discouraging task of needing another 2-3 weeks for the next level. Which feels very much like you stopped getting any rewards any more.
So here's a gamer's point of view. Could I live with a 3 hours a day per character time limit? Well, yes, in fact. It would keep the group within a more reasonable level range in the long run.
Also consider that what the Chinese did is just the heavy-handed typically-totalitarian version of what's already being done about it in the West. E.g., World Of Warcraft's "rested" bonus doesn't halve your stats, but halves your xp if you play more than 1-2 hours a day. People actually liked that kind of thing, judging by WoW's runaway popularity.
So while I don't support heavy-handed government intervention, I would like to see more done about the current MMO setup.
It doesn't even have to involve preventing people from playing. It can just as well be a re-thinking of how levels work.
Planetside, for example, did a wonderful job there: more levels give you more flexibility in your choice of equipment, but don't move you in a whole other range of power. It is certainly possible to either compete or cooperate with a level 25 (the max level there) when you're level 1. You can actually be a valuable member of that group, not just a useless newbie tagging along for the xp.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The human brains just isn't supposed to sit idle. You can't just sit there with an empty mind, or you'd go insane with boredom.
So you start thinking about stuff. Some good, some bad. Invariably some bad. Humans just aren't built to be happy all the time. I'm talking biologically: your mood is, basically, like on a spring or rubberband that tends to bring it back to the centre.
So if you just sit there bored, you'll start thinking of various stuff, a lot of it bad stuff. Boredom itself being a bad stimulus, also doesn't help there.
Basically that's IMHO what gaming "saves" you from, or allows you to "escape" from. It's not that any of us have such an awful life we need to run away from. All that we're "escaping" from is merely the alternative of sitting there bored and remembering all the bad parts of our lives.
Again, not "bad parts" as in "boo hoo, I'm a failure and my life is in complete shambles", but rather mundane every-day stuff, not much different from anyone elses occasional stressful incidents. Just bad as in, well, you'd rather do something entertaining than sit there and think about that crap out of sheer boredom.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Simple as that, I enjoy the mental challenge and the thought of doing something to just sitting down and passivly watching TV.
"Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
Historically, the Chinese Communist government has always taken action against any group or anything that gains a significant following. Anything that can compell thousands, if not millions of people to do something is a threat to government power. Online games currently have such a following in China. Not only that, as mentioned by one person in the article, they also provide an avenue for contact with people outside of China. Together, these things are a serious problem for the government. The recent uproar over GTA and the death of the South Korean player gave perfect cover to the government to crack down on something that might be a threat to their authority.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
"I don't completely agree with this, at least about the harmlessness of timewasters like fishing and gaming. Sometimes those timewasters get in the way of the real work (i.e. playing WoW instead of doing homework) and that is bad, and parents need to make sure their children are on the right track."
You are, of course, right there. But as you've said, it applies to all the timewastes, not just gaming. (E.g., I preferred playing with the cat instead of doing homework, if I had half a choice.) And, yeah, that's what parents are for.
I'm just saying that, to some extent, we all actually _need_ such time wastes. I'm not saying that it's good to end up doing those instead of going to work, or doing homework, or whatever. But at some point, after work, after homework, after the household chores, you're left with some hours that you have to fill somehow. And gaming isn't some biblical plague, it's just one of the many many things that people can use to that end. That's all I'm saying.
"Moreover, at least if you're tinkering with your car you learn more about the car and can possibly fix problems that you'd usually have a mechanic do."
I'll grant that, for a select few (very few) number of hobbies. Most don't fall in that category, though.
A lot of the skills waved around as "but it's a RL skill" or "but it's a money-making skill" are rarely actually used to make money. E.g., mom is quick to point out that she made 40 Euro with her digital photos, but tends to skip over the thousands invested in the same hobby. Between the camera (and it's a top end one), lenses, a 1000 Euro MVA TFT monitor (ok, so I paid for that one), a high end PC to run Photoshop on, and the Photoshop license itself, it was if anything a money-sink skill so far.
And even for fixing cars or computers,
1. Well, let's do some maths. Let's say you saved a whole 100$ per month by fixing your car. (Most people don't get that high, but let's be generous.) Well, it's sorta like this: if you spend more than 20 hours a month on your car, that puts you at less than 5$ per hour, "gained" from that skill. (And I know people who practically live in the garage.)
If you also include all the tools, spare parts, etc, involved, even less.
I.e., if you actually did that for the money, I'd have to say that it's a piss-poor way to achieve that. You could get a second job that pays _much_ better than that, pay a mechanic for the repairs, and still end up better off.
So I'm still thinking it's mostly entertainment, rather than "money-making/money-saving skill". Maybe a less expensive entertainment than others, but still, it's mostly something to keep yourself busy with.
2. You probably realize that we're past the point where that's actually _needed_. The whole mentality that it's that important to do something directly productive, is the residue of a culture based on an economy of scarcity.
For millenia, the economy was such that a lot of people actually starved to death. Taking one hobby instead of another could hit you in the bare necessities, and even make an actual difference for survival. E.g., going fishing instead of going to the pub, made an actual difference in feeding your family. In one of the cases even if you didn't starve over the winter, you might still be malnourished enough to be felled by the first disease. E.g., fixing your own wagon instead of paying someone to do it, same deal: those money came out of the funds you had for buying bare necessities.
Nowadays, we're living in a fundamentally different kind of economy. We're at the point where even "poverty" is a metric that's about keeping up with the Joneses, rather than being the point where you actually starve.
I'm willing to bet that most of your money is going not on bare necessities like food and the most minimal shelter. It's going on convenience stuff like getting a bigger TV or a bigger car, or outright conspicuous-consumption luxuries.
Basically where I'm getting is that even if you save
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
mod parent up.
It's not a MMO, but try Harvest Moon. It's just that. A game about planting cabbage in the garden, milking your cow(s), shearing your sheep, and brushing your pony.
Also, most MMOs have some crafting skills to make money. (And at least one, "A Tale In The Desert", is _all_ about crafting.) Most of my money in EQ 2 or WoW so far comes from gathering resources (e.g., digging for ore), crafting, and selling both finished products and raw materials I don't need. E.g., if you dug some rare bronze ore (yeah, I know, bronze is actually an alloy, but tell that to Sony;) in the newbie woods in EQ2, it sells for anything between 2 and 3 gold real quick.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
You seem to be suggesting that society would have more meaning if it was more religious. I couldn't disagree more. Religion is a destructive force in society that leads to intolerance, prejudice, and violence. It doesn't contribute any real meaning to life, just the illusion of meaning.