Glitch Forces Mars Probe Shut-Off

What glitch!?!? by Ceirren · 2005-09-04 04:46 · Score: 5, Funny

It's not a glitch, silly. Nor is it a "bug"! It's just a new feature.

Re:What glitch!?!? by kfg · 2005-09-04 05:24 · Score: 1

This is what we call a "wad."

Works as Designed.

KFG
Re:What glitch!?!? by mog007 · 2005-09-04 05:32 · Score: 1

Looks like Mars wasn't prepared for the Y2K bug...

--
Learn something new.
Re:What glitch!?!? by lahuard · 2005-09-04 06:06 · Score: 1

When I read that there was a glitch, I was thinking a blue screen of death.
Re:What glitch!?!? by Petersson · 2005-09-04 23:15 · Score: 1

BSOD is dull, dull, dull!
Maybe the probe OS is just excersising the Guru Mediation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_meditation.

--
I'm not insane. My mother had me tested.

Relevant glitches. by moz25 · 2005-09-04 04:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

It seems like glitches and waiting for the right glitch to come along have become an important part of normal operation for these things.

Why didn't they build in some means of communication for this "safe mode"? I find it rather odd that it is in a known state (safe mode) that is known to be undesirable, yet there is no fallback system (even a timed one) to get it out of this mode? How come?

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see a Text Widget

Re:Relevant glitches. by petermgreen · 2005-09-04 04:54 · Score: 3, Interesting

from reading the article it sounds like the safe mode is intended to prevent total loss of the probe in the event of a problem that sucks lots of power.

the main problem seems to be it takes a while to get it back to normal operation and they'd really like to take some photos of the bit of mars the probe is going over soon

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Re:Relevant glitches. by jhines · 2005-09-04 04:54 · Score: 3, Informative

From the fine article:
In this mode, MGS turns off its science instruments but leaves many other systems on.
Presumbly this includes communications.
Re:Relevant glitches. by Freexe · 2005-09-04 04:57 · Score: 3, Informative

We're not talking about Windows safe mode here, It was switched onto safe mode because a glich was occuring.

In safe mode to turns to the sun to funny charge its battery and allows communication with Earth on its low-gain antenna. Which is presumably to work out what is wrong makes changes and reboot the system.

You have to remember that this craft has been in space since 1996 so is old and might have radiation damage by now so this kind of thing is to be expected.

--
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Re:Relevant glitches. by srleffler · 2005-09-04 05:50 · Score: 4, Informative

But only limited communications. The primary channel, which allows high bandwidth communications, is more fussy to maintain (antenna has to be pointed in the right direction, etc.) In 'safe mode' the probe uses a secondary communications method that is more reliable but much lower bandwidth.
Re:Relevant glitches. by srleffler · 2005-09-04 06:01 · Score: 4, Informative

They did. From TFA, in safe mode "[t]he spacecraft...communicates with Earth on its low-gain antenna only." The low-gain antenna is there as a backup communications channel for 'safe mode'.
You missed the point: 'safe mode' is the fallback system. The probe is not in a 'known state'. They do not yet know what fault caused the probe to go into safe mode. Safe mode is a generic state designed to maintain power and communications with Earth when an unknown fault has occurred, to give the operators time to find a solution or just to check that everything is OK. When they are sure everything is OK they will send a command to exit safe mode.
There is reason to be cautious. An important satellite was lost a few years ago because the operators rushed their diagnosis of the problem. The satellite's operating state was not what they thought it was--two of the gyros had failed. The operators misinterpreted the data and switched the satellite from its last working gyro to one of the nonworking ones, resulting in total loss of communications and destruction of the satellite. Not good. Before they do anything, they need to be sure they understand what has happened and what state the probe is in.
Re:Relevant glitches. by Tablizer · 2005-09-04 07:21 · Score: 3, Interesting

There also seems to be a trade-off between power and communication. If the craft does not have to worry about pointing its high-gain antenna toward earth, then it can instead focus on pointing toward the sun. In an emergancy, it is nice to have plenty of power.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:Relevant glitches. by martalli · 2005-09-04 11:17 · Score: 1

I hope that they don't have to upgrade the BIOS with a floppy.

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Building a healthy future; Connecting communities
Re:Relevant glitches. by Ponzicar · 2005-09-04 11:21 · Score: 3, Funny

So it's not exactly safe mode, it's more like "safe mode with networking".
Re:Relevant glitches. by srleffler · 2005-09-04 15:09 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can guess. From TFA, in safe mode the probe orients its solar panels very directly toward the sun, to maximize the power received. Presumably it uses its rockets to do that, burning lots of fuel. In normal operation, the probe probably keeps its orientation with gyros, and doesn't try to always be pointed exactly at the sun. It would use batteries to keep it running when the received power is low.
Re:Relevant glitches. by sjames · 2005-09-05 04:37 · Score: 1

Why didn't they build in some means of communication for this "safe mode"?

There IS a means of communication, that's how they are able to do anything to bring it out of safe mode. Specifically, it switches to the low gain antenna because that one will work even if it is not aimed accuratly. The presumption is that it would be a real shame if a simple, otherwise correctable problem ended the mission because the high gain antenna was aimed wrong. Being on low gain with a limited but existant data rate is preferred.

Safe mode is only relativly undesirable. It is intended to avoid the truly undesirable state of 'dead' where it can't hear commands, the batteries run flat and the whole thing shuts down.

That's why probes are designed to go into safe mode when there is any doubt at all. It's the mode that makes ground based asessment and correction as likely as it can be made.

wow by Turn-X+Alphonse · 2005-09-04 04:47 · Score: 1

Man that's got to sting.

But surely they have control over which system they use, the main system is on safe mode, but the back up system isn't so why couldn't they switch to the back up and then use the "main" one as the back up if they're limited on time.

--
I like muppets.

Not a big deal by jarich · 2005-09-04 04:47 · Score: 4, Funny

It's just applying a Service Pack. It'll be back up in jiff...

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Agile Artisans

Re:Safe Mode? by Kiffer · 2005-09-04 04:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Yeah, just wait till the screensaver kicks in.

My God! It's full of stars!

BSOD by Luigi30 · 2005-09-04 04:50 · Score: 2, Funny

This probe has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.

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503 Sig Unavailable

The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator

Re:BSOD by restlesscheese · 2005-09-04 06:37 · Score: 1

It probably parked in one of those no parking zones.

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I am Whovian. Hear me *vworp!*
Re:BSOD by Biogenesis · 2005-09-04 11:07 · Score: 1

Oblig. Futurama:

The probe you have dialed has crashed into a planet. Please make a note of it.

--
...just so Google finds it.

"The" Mars Probe? by rk · 2005-09-04 04:52 · Score: 5, Informative

People, we've got be a little more precise. There are three functioning spacecraft in orbit, one more on the way, and two on the ground on and around Mars. Between NASA and the ESA, it's getting crowded on Mars.

For those who didn't RTFA, it's the Mars Global Surveyor, which is the oldest of those in orbit.

Re:"The" Mars Probe? by learn+fast · 2005-09-04 05:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Getting crowded? Mar is the size of a planet!
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2005-09-04 05:33 · Score: 1

Ah, yes.

I think the reason I stick around is to watch people mock the submitters and the editors. The problem is that they are setting themselves up as such easy targets that it's not really a sport anymore.
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by jez9999 · 2005-09-04 05:53 · Score: 2, Funny

I think you mean Mar's.

--
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by Solder+Fumes · 2005-09-04 06:10 · Score: 1

"Man Dies in Car Crash"

That's a headline you have probably seen in a newspaper. Are you going to bite the editor's head off for not specifying which man, and what kind of car? Those details are left for TFA.

Granted, the submitter or Scuttlemonkey could have said "Global Surveyor" in the summary. I think it was just inexperience, they saw "Mars Probe" and went "duhhh, there's only one" or something like that. But even so, the Slashdot summaries are supposed to be little more than headlines anyway.
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by eremitic · 2005-09-04 06:20 · Score: 1

Crowded, you say? I'm about ready for some Battlebots shit to go down, myself.

--
Warning: Could be fatal if taken seriously
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by drsquare · 2005-09-04 06:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

In the summary, it was refered to as 'THE Mars Probe'. As there are only a few probes, it would have made sense to say which one, or at least to refer to it as 'A Mars Probe'. Saying 'the' probe makes it look like there is only one, and I for one would have assumed it's the rover thing.

Imagine a newspaper headline after the hurricane:

Hurricane Destroys City
Today the city was devastated by the hurricane. More details on page 23.
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by gohai · 2005-09-04 07:23 · Score: 1

hey, you forgot Beagle 2.. wait, forget it ;)
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by KFury · 2005-09-04 10:55 · Score: 2, Funny

Or possibly "Man dies in the crash" at which point I'm wondering if it was a stock broker throwing himself out of a window or if there was a catastrophe I was unaware of.

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Kevin Fox
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by Yosho · 2005-09-04 14:13 · Score: 1

Nah, Mar's aren't nearly that big.

--
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by MichaelSmith · 2005-09-04 17:32 · Score: 1

it's the Mars Global Surveyor, which is the oldest of those in orbit.
The Viking one and two orbiters must still be in orbit, we just can't communicate with them.

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by rk · 2005-09-05 02:32 · Score: 1

They've both been powered down for the last 30 years, so I went out on a limb and assumed that it wasn't one of those that entered safe mode. :-)
Re:"The" Mars Probe? by mikiN · 2005-09-06 03:36 · Score: 1

Mars' not getting crowded, Mars Needs Women, you insensitive clod!
Perhaps not a Beowulf cluster of them, but enough to warrant porting NetBSD.

In Soviet Russia, Glitch Fixes You!

(Never mind all this, it's too darn hot here, and I'm getting mealy with it).

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The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!

Well, Duh... by mistermund · 2005-09-04 04:52 · Score: 1, Funny

The spacecraft has switched into a "safe mode", in which the instruments and some other systems are turned off.

Just CTRL-ALT-DEL and this time, don't hit F8. Windows will boot normally. Duh.

Re:Well, Duh... by Zoidmann · 2005-09-04 05:17 · Score: 1

What do you expect when the person in charge of the information is a ShuttleMonkey?
Re:Well, Duh... by glass_window · 2005-09-04 08:50 · Score: 1

ERROR: Cannot find WIN.COM, unable to continue loading Windows.
C:\>_

Nasa? by j3rryh · 2005-09-04 04:53 · Score: 1

Does anyone know if the automated rovers/spacecraft use a commercial or OSS OS? Or does NASA roll their own? -j3rry

--
"Coffee is the lifeblood of champions" -Mike Ditka

Re:Nasa? by sounddesignz · 2005-09-04 05:05 · Score: 4, Informative

http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.ht ml well, TFA is about the space shuttle, but i'd guess it applies to other space gadgets, too. "Consider these stats : the last three versions of the program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one error each. The last 11 versions of this software had a total of 17 errors. Commercial programs of equivalent complexity would have 5,000 errors."
Re:Nasa? by TheEvilOverlord · 2005-09-04 05:14 · Score: 1

They roll their own.

I can't recall who offhand, but I remember being told there was a 1 to 5 classification for code quality given out by an internation body, and nasa is the only one in cat 5.

I believe this is mainly due to repetative code reading by hand with paper and pencil.
Re:Nasa? by martin_b1sh0p · 2005-09-04 05:14 · Score: 3, Informative

I know some of their stuff (i.e. the MER rovers) use VxWorks. See http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology /mer_computer_040128.html and http://www.windriver.com/news/press/pr.html?ID=355
Re:Nasa? by martin_b1sh0p · 2005-09-04 05:18 · Score: 1

Note that the X-38 project I referenced in my previous post has been cancelled. But the MER rovers do use VxWorks, so they didn't roll their own in that case.
Re:Nasa? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-04 05:21 · Score: 3, Informative

Malin Space Science Systems http://www.msss.com/ is the company that runs the cameras on MGS, among other Mars probes. The MGS uses VxWorks, a specialized OS for robotic craft, which I believe runs on both *nix and Windows. I think VxWorks is OSS, although I also think some companies use customized versions. The specs for MGS http:///http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs//scsys/cdhsin fo.html> indicate two 1750A and one 8086 processors, which are probably running VxWorks in a Unix-like environment. The 1750A is a military standard processor (exceedingly old now, but rugged). Check out that specs page; very interesting. In safe mode, MGS uses 20K PROM for the Command/Data subsystem! Since Malin website indicates jobs for Unix/C programmers, I'm assuming that their stuff is running in VxWorks in a Unix-like environment, probably a BSD varaiant. BTW, the Mars rovers use a PPC 601-like chip that runs at a screaming 20 mHz.
Re:Nasa? by pcmanjon · 2005-09-04 05:27 · Score: 1

" Does anyone know if the automated rovers/spacecraft use a commercial or OSS OS? Or does NASA roll their own? -j3rry"

The mars global surveyor (the oldest one launched) is running a modified version of WIN95 from what I've been told in the past.

The newer rovers use an operating system called VXWORKS made by windriver. VXWORKS is kind of like a single-user based UNIX real time operating system (however, it's closed source and proprietary)

Here's the page for VXWORKS:
http://www.windriver.com/products/device_technolog ies/os/vxworks5/
Re:Nasa? by benjamindees · 2005-09-04 05:45 · Score: 1

I don't know how the parent got modded to zero, but the article referenced is quite interesting.

--
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Re:Nasa? by mallardtheduck · 2005-09-04 06:31 · Score: 1

My DSL router runs VxWorks:
Connected to 10.0.0.2. 220 VxWorks (VxWorks5.4.2) FTP server ready User (10.0.0.2:(none)):
So it must be reasonably common... Anyone know of any other devices that run it?
Re:Nasa? by Mechcozmo · 2005-09-04 06:48 · Score: 1

The reason they use older (slower) processors is because of radiation. They don't want bits to get flipped around. Slow and precise is fine.
Re:Nasa? by KDR_11k · 2005-09-04 09:03 · Score: 1

To be honest I'm surprised they don't demand the entire code to be proven mathematically. I mean, there still seem to be some errors so it doesn't seem to be proven 100%.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Nasa? by martin_b1sh0p · 2005-09-04 09:36 · Score: 1

Just wanted to point out that VxWorks is NOT Open Source Software. We use it at work. We used to use Qnx (also not OSS) but we've since switched to VxWorks.
Re:Nasa? by PinkyGigglebrain · 2005-09-04 18:29 · Score: 2, Informative

VxWorks from Wind River Systems.

Pathfinder and the two rovers are the only ones I'm sure of as far as the Mars units go but some of the other space probes, Stardust,Deep Imapct and Deep Space 1 also used VxWorks.

I do know that the "safe mode" the probe has entered means that something locked up the main program long enough for a hardware watchdog to go off, rebooting it, during boot the init code checks what state the system is in, ie; did the WD go off, and if it did then it boots a known good App/OS package that will at least allow the probe to get in contact with Earth so it can be fixed.

I don't know for sure if NASA is doing this, I know I told the JPL people I met about it, but I know that with VxWorks it is possible to store data in the upper area of RAM and prevent the init code from clearing it so that a core dump of sorts can be used to isolate the problem so the main code can be adjusted, if needed, to correct the issue. This is what they did with Pathfinder when the base station kept rebooting every 20 min due to a priority inversion issue with a semaphore.
Re:Nasa? by zecg · 2005-09-04 21:13 · Score: 1

...the last three versions of the program -- each 420,000 lines long-had just one found error each. The last 11 versions of this software had a total of 17 found errors. Commercial programs of equivalent complexity would have 5,000 errors found."

There, fixed it for you.

--
.i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u

Shouldn't the headline include.... by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · 2005-09-04 04:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

...which probe?

There's presently functioning two orbiters (Mars Global Surveyor, Mars Odyssey), two rovers (MER A a.k.a. Spirit, MER B a.k.a. Opportunity), and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is on the way.

I realize TFA has the info but it sort of belongs in the headline. "The mars probe" just sounds silly and uninformed.

Re:Shouldn't the headline include.... by FrostedWheat · 2005-09-04 06:15 · Score: 1

There's presently functioning two orbiters (Mars Global Surveyor, Mars Odyssey)

You mean three, ESA's Mars Express is alive and kicking!
Re:Shouldn't the headline include.... by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · 2005-09-04 08:24 · Score: 1

Ah yes, mod me "moron". I was shamelessly only counting U.S. craft. :: cringes :: On checking the original submission it doesn't specify that. ^^;

Mars Express has been returning some fantastic data!

Too bad the telecommunications probe has been cancelled. =( It would really improve the data return of MSL when it gets there.
Re:Shouldn't the headline include.... by iluvcapra · 2005-09-04 08:31 · Score: 1

It should, and TFA indicates that it is the Mars Global Surveyor (for those of you to lazy to click over).

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Re:Shouldn't the headline include.... by FrostedWheat · 2005-09-04 10:06 · Score: 1

Too bad the telecommunications probe has been cancelled

Ah man, I didn't hear about that. That's a huge shame!

What sort of software is this probe running? by CyricZ · 2005-09-04 04:57 · Score: 3, Interesting

Can anyone provide technical information regarding what software this probe is running? The article itself is very vague (but not surprising, since it's a general-consumption BBC article).

Which embedded OS is it running? What language and programming system was used to develop the application software for it? Details, please.

--
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.

Re:What sort of software is this probe running? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-04 05:15 · Score: 5, Informative

Mars rovers use WindRiver VxWorks, probably version 5... who needs a BSOD when you have this little favorite "workQPanic: Kernel work queue overflow"... ugh.

check out http://acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=sh owpage&pid=227 , to be fair, these guys go above and beyond to try and prevent glitches and random crappola.

-j
Re:What sort of software is this probe running? by artifex2004 · 2005-09-04 12:05 · Score: 1

"workQPanic: Kernel work queue overflow"

My ReplayTV uses VxWorks, and it just reboots when it gets too busy. (I think it's got a "heartbeat" routine to detect when it's thrashing?)

No idea what rebooting a probe would do, though. :)
Re:What sort of software is this probe running? by pla · 2005-09-06 12:55 · Score: 1

Mars rovers use WindRiver VxWorks

ACK! No! Please tell me you jest?

Wow. And we managed to actually get a few there to do their mission?

I wonder if, like myself, NASA needed to rewrite their commandline build scripts from scratch as well... Talk about a waste of money! "Uh, it doesn't work, not even close - admit it, you guys never even tested this under ideal, nevermind real-world, conditions", "Well, send us a fix, and we'll consider making it part of the next release", "Wait, which of us has the service contract with the other???"

"Science Instruments" by Wilson_6500 · 2005-09-04 04:58 · Score: 1

I don't have anything useful to say, I just think the phrase "science instruments" is really, really funny.

Re:"Science Instruments" by ScrewMaster · 2005-09-04 05:35 · Score: 1

Well, that's what Spock had at his "science station", him being the "science officer" and all.

--
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.

Re:Safe Mode? by John+Muir · 2005-09-04 05:02 · Score: 1

Even worse - you can tell it's win 95... Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 on a mission to study the Red Planet's surface features, atmosphere and magnetic properties. It could even have a little Chips&Technologies onboard graphics card...

Oooh... I've seen this one... by FhnuZoag · 2005-09-04 05:04 · Score: 2, Funny

Is this where we upload the virus onto the alien mothership?

In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch by xenoxaos · 2005-09-04 05:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

I have a high emotional stake in the mars missions. Recently a good highschool friend of mine passed away in a plane crash. She was a co-op at NASA. In recognition for her work on the Mars reconnaissance orbiter, her memory and name were launched into space with with it. Krys, We love you. Story: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8931065/

Re:In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch by CyricZ · 2005-09-04 05:19 · Score: 1

Was her last name pronounced as "Cosh", or as "Cock"?

--
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Re:In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch by YouCanCallMeAl · 2005-09-04 05:39 · Score: 1

I think that name if often pronounced like Coke.
Re:In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch by Aunt+Kimmie · 2005-09-16 13:20 · Score: 1

Hi...I don't know who you are but I am Krystal's Aunt Kimmie...I thank you for the post on here!!! Krystal is a very special girl and will always be secure in my heart. We all miss her terribly!!! This has been a very difficult time for all of her family. Know that Krystal loved each and every one of the lives she touched; an believe me she touched more lives than even she knows!!! She will always be watching out for us and we will all be re-united in time!!!! I LOVE YOU KRYS!!!! We all love hearing from Krys' friends...e-mail at kim292@bellsouth.net xoxoxo to all her friends!

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Aunt Kimmie, kim292@bellsouth.net
Re:In Loving Memory of Krystal Koch by Aunt+Kimmie · 2005-09-16 13:32 · Score: 1

Actually, as Krystal's aunt I'll tell you the correct way of saying her last name: It's like saying "cook"....And she is/was one heck of a special Girl!!! check out dropzone.com and search her name.....Quite the acomplished 21 year old!!!! WE LOVE YOU KRYS!!!

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Aunt Kimmie, kim292@bellsouth.net

tax dollars? by CunningNickName · 2005-09-04 05:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

The Mars Global Surveyor's mission ended in 2001 and has been on an extended mission ever since.

I'd say Americans are getting their money's worth and then some.

Re:tax dollars? by goon+america · 2005-09-04 06:14 · Score: 1

It's not like the Homeland Security Department.

IF THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY LAUNCHED A SPACE PROBE...

DHS GUY 1: It's a proud day for the Department of Homeland Security! We're going to launch a probe into outer space!

DHS GUY 2: Isn't that in Texas?

DHS GUY 1: I think it's in Nevada.

DHS GUY 2: Well there isn't time to check.

DHS GUY 1: Since it's in Nevada we'll need lots of boats to get it there.

DHS GUY 2: Did you say parade floats? Because I just wrote out a contract to Microsoft for 10000 parade floats.

DHS GUY 1: Good, we'll need that in case the bantam rooster-pulled sleigh ride goes too quickly.

DHS GUY 2: What do parade floats eat?

DHS GUY 1: Anemometers and horseshoes, why?

...eighteen billion deficit-spent taxpayer dollars later...

DHS GUY 1: It's a proud day for the Department of Homeland Security! Our space probe was very nearly a success! We came very, very close to reaching space, and I'd like to thank all of you for doing a spectacular job!

Facts about the Department of Homeland Security:

* Protecting you from terrorism
* Created to coordinate every defensive agency to work together in an emergency
* Several employees can tie own shoes
* The major domestic policy response to 9/11
Re:tax dollars? by Tablizer · 2005-09-04 07:37 · Score: 1

The Mars Global Surveyor's mission ended in 2001 and has been on an extended mission ever since.

They mentioned something about recent solar storms that could have messed with it. The radiation is pretty harsh in Mars orbit, especially near the Solar Maximum (11-year cycle), which peaked a few years ago. It seems computer components would be the first to go because they are usually the smallest and most delicate. That probe has been up there for almost a decade.

The Gallileo probe had progressively more and more computer and reboot problems the older it got because of the harsh Jupiter radiation it was in. Even with special chips, electronics can only last so long under such conditions.

--
Table-ized A.I.

Spyware by Comatose51 · 2005-09-04 05:08 · Score: 1

'glitch' has forced the mars probe to switch into a "safe-mode",

Damn spyware! That's the only way you'll be able to remove them. I hope they did Safe Mode with Networking Support because it's will take awhile for someone to cold boot that baby if it something goes wrong.

--
EvilCON - Made Famous by /.

As John Hurt Said In Spaceballs... by __aaclcg7560 · 2005-09-04 05:08 · Score: 3, Funny

Oh, no, not again! :P

ETA to download: 400 days remaining by John+Muir · 2005-09-04 05:09 · Score: 2, Funny

Any guesses what the download bandwidth is via space telescope at Mars? It might have taken this long for it to get SP2.

Isn't the first time by richdun · 2005-09-04 05:17 · Score: 4, Informative

Apparently this probe (the Mars Global Surveyor) went into "safe mode" before in its mission.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/status/wkreport/curre nt.html

POSIX OS by KajiCo · 2005-09-04 05:23 · Score: 3, Informative

Wind River Systems built the POSIX compliant based OS into the Odyssey, Stardust and Rovers, so it's possible the MGS has a similar OS to those.

The OS is VxWorks and it's been used in Sattelites, Robots and for some reason Movie editing (probably a file management system)

http://www.windriver.com/products/device_technolog ies/os/vxworks6/

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/0 3/mars/jump/2404308

Re:POSIX OS by The_Wilschon · 2005-09-04 06:11 · Score: 1

VxWorks is also used on all the crates and crates of custom hardware at CDF (Collider Detector at Fermilab).

--
SIGSEGV caught, terminating

wait... not that kind of sig.
Re:POSIX OS by mallardtheduck · 2005-09-04 06:43 · Score: 1

Dont forget DSL routers... Mine runs "VxWorks5.4.2".
Re:POSIX OS by iluvcapra · 2005-09-04 08:40 · Score: 1

For movie edting, I know it is used on the frontends of Euphonix System 5 mixing consoles -- the console itself, I mean, the surface with the faders, displays, buttons and knobs, runs VxWorks. The surface ties into a main DSP frame which runs Windows 2000.

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.

Sorry Houston by truckaxle · 2005-09-04 05:23 · Score: 1, Funny

Into "safe mode" ya right. What really happened is that in the last communication transaction the probe responded with a previously unknown debugging message "Sorry Houston I can't do that"

Re:Sorry Houston by ScrewMaster · 2005-09-04 05:37 · Score: 1

Yes, but that's just because it was built by the Houston Aeronautics Laboratory.

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The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.

They do not roll their own.. Except for shuttle by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-04 05:24 · Score: 1, Insightful

They DO NOT roll their own anymore... For the most part, almost every NASA mission is flying windriver's vxWorks OS. Frankly, as much as I'd like, linux doesn't stand a chance for at least 10 more years, because it costs so little (most NASA programs spend at least 100k on vxWorks and tools) but also because the embedded development tools are not quite as nice as windriver's.

Windriver's OS isn't all that fancy, but it does pack a pretty small footprint when configured well.

Gotta love slashdot... Lots of people who don't know what they are talking about correcting and preaching to the world.

Re:Early deployment of Helicopter gunships by ScrewMaster · 2005-09-04 05:31 · Score: 1

Well ... their kinfolk did say move away from there. Said Californy was the place they oughta be. So they loaded up the truck, but Katrina came, you see. Now they're in a swimmin' pool. No movie stars.

But, ya'll come back now ... y'hear?

--
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.

One worrying thing by John+Muir · 2005-09-04 05:36 · Score: 1

From TFA: Controllers want to get the spacecraft out of safe mode as quickly as possible because it can use up to 10 times more fuel than it would during its normal operating mode. Presumably thats for all the steering to track the Sun. I agree the "safe mode" or rather "emergency recovery mode" is a good idea, pretty unavoidable in design in fact. But the fact they seem to be fighting with their probe's interface shows up how old the thing is, and probably a bit senile from the cosmic rays and so on. Damn just when the fancy picture sweep was about to happen too!

Interplanetary Adware by sd_diamond · 2005-09-04 05:57 · Score: 1

Just CTRL-ALT-DEL and this time, don't hit F8. Windows will boot normally. Duh.

But then 1800SearchAssistant will load up again and you'll be in the same boat.

I wonder... by Ariane+6 · 2005-09-04 05:59 · Score: 1

...if this means there'll be no class on Tuesday. That would suck.

/instructor is PI on TES

What the?!?!? by deathy_epl+ccs · 2005-09-04 06:13 · Score: 1

Hey! It's an article about Mars, and there's still no press release from the Mars High Council about this! I think someone's been sleeping...

Re:Obviously... by nmb3000 · 2005-09-04 06:15 · Score: 1

So, instead of a BSOD, they just got a sad mac and some sick chime sounds.

Gotta love the Sad Mac. Unless it got hit by a Bomb. That's gotta suck because nobody is around to hold down the shift key.

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"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)

Mars Polar Lander by JetJaguar · 2005-09-04 06:17 · Score: 1

I don't know why they are so worried about imaging the Mars Polar Lander crash site. HiRISE will be doing that, and at a much better resolution when it gets there next year.

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Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!

Re:Mars Polar Lander by Tablizer · 2005-09-04 07:27 · Score: 1

I don't know why they are so worried about imaging the Mars Polar Lander crash site. HiRISE will be doing that, and at a much better resolution when it gets there next year.

The article said the Polar Lander crash site will soon be in the dark for two years (a martain year) because it is close to the pole. They want to photograph it before they launch the Pheonix Lander (about a year from now?), which uses similar technology to the Polar Lander. After they launch Pheonix, it will be too late to make any hardware changes to adjust to any new findings on the fate of the PL. Thus, they have a narrow window.

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Table-ized A.I.

Re:Oh no, they found the joystick! by killa62 · 2005-09-04 06:38 · Score: 1

that thing is actually a color calibration/sundial

Obligatory Wikipedia Link by John+Muir · 2005-09-04 06:46 · Score: 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VxWorks

"The Mars Exploration Rovers Spirit and Opportunity and the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter use the VxWorks operating system running on a PowerPC platform. VxWorks is in use in several other spacecraft, and Boeing Commercial Airplanes intends to use the operating system in their new 787 airliner."

Wait a sec... by mahmud · 2005-09-04 06:54 · Score: 1

What happened to TripMaster Monkey (or what's his name) and news on latest developments in the council?

Re:hmm by glass_window · 2005-09-04 08:56 · Score: 1

I don't care. As long as they have "Safe Mode with Life Support" before they start sending us up.

Re:Quick! by ZakuSage · 2005-09-04 09:32 · Score: 1

How is this trolling? I wasn't trying to get anyone to flame, just making a joke. Wow, people are touchy about CTRL-ALT-DEL on Windows, it would seem.

Re:windows by Legion303 · 2005-09-04 10:13 · Score: 1

They don't run Windows. Better brush up on your karma-whoring.

10 times the fuel? by J_Omega · 2005-09-04 10:35 · Score: 1

From TFA:

The spacecraft has switched into a "safe mode", in which the instruments and some other systems are turned off.
...
In this mode, MGS turns off its science instruments but leaves many other systems on.
...
Controllers want to get the spacecraft out of safe mode as quickly as possible because it can use up to 10 times more fuel than it would during its normal operating mode.

With science instruments, the high-gain antenna, and other systems shut down, why would the thing use 10x more fuel than usual?

Re:10 times the fuel? by wjsteele · 2005-09-04 10:53 · Score: 1

One word... Attitude. In normal mode, it uses "Reaction Wheels" or gyroscopes. These are electrically powered instead of the reaction control thrusters which use fuel. The fuel is then only needed to "speed up" to maintain orbit. When the spacecraft goes into safe mode, the reaction wheels are shut down and the system uses the reaction control system instead.

Bill

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It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
Re:10 times the fuel? by J_Omega · 2005-09-04 11:02 · Score: 1

that makes sense. thanks, wjsteele!
Re:10 times the fuel? by Seraphim1982 · 2005-09-05 13:56 · Score: 1

The high gain antenna needs to be aimed. From what I understand this isn't possible when in "safe mode".

Ah, Slashdot. by ChePibe · 2005-09-04 11:16 · Score: 1

Where sarcasm simply does not exist. (Above post was a joke, repeat, a joke... probably not a funny joke, but not meant as flamebait... joke!)

Re:Troll? by sd_diamond · 2005-09-04 11:17 · Score: 1

Looks like someone can't handle criticism like a grown-up.

Martian BSOD? by /dev/kev · 2005-09-04 14:57 · Score: 1

Perhaps it is just an education tool to show martians the meaning of BSOD.

Well, why not, after all, even Bill Gates got one.

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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Steve Austin by bjbyrne · 2005-09-04 15:54 · Score: 1

Too bad the 6 million dollar man couldn't just switch the venus death probe into safe mode too.

Re:Early deployment of Helicopter gunships by Compaq_Hater · 2005-09-04 21:53 · Score: 1

that was in pretty poor taste and off topic. What a Fucktard you must be. CH

Re:Quick! by Tragamor · 2005-09-04 22:38 · Score: 1

Isn't it obvious? - "con-TROLL, Alt, Delete"!

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To be is to do - Descartes. To do is to be - Sartre. Dooby dooby do - Frank Sinatra.

Too Early for math by rk · 2005-09-05 02:36 · Score: 1

Eh, make that twenty some odd years ago. Although the Viking 1 orbiter is coming up on 30 years out of service.

Slow Down Cowboy! Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at criticizing your bad math.

proving by sedyn · 2005-09-05 10:24 · Score: 1

There is a problem with that logic...

Assume that we have a function f that we have proven will provide valid result a.

Therefore the function produces the correct result. However, the function might also have an unintended effect causing result b.

An example of this would be something along these lines:
add r0, 4, r1
which, makes r1 = r0 + 4
We can call this result a. However something important was in r1 prior to this instruction and it was not stored. Therefore, we have a correct function, but an unwanted result b.

A real world example would be one that I can attribute to NASA. In their code, they once had a device that worked in metric, and another in imperial. It goes without saying that bad information was given and taken. Even though the two modules worked perfectly, until they were coupled.

Now, that could be brought back, and it could be said that they should have proved that case, and a person would be correct in saying so. But, take Microsoft, do they intentionally put errors in their code? Hopefully not, but I would bet that 90-something percent of all exploits are due to such an oversight.

Therefore, the effect of the code in the overall system would have to be proven. Considering a near infinite possibilities of variables, this becomes quite the challenge to prove. Hence, there is no greatest proof! ^_^

This is not to say that proving code is irrelevant. Quite the contrary. It is implying that proving code is like "safe" sex. It's safer than the alternatives, but not 100%

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Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?

Re:proving by KDR_11k · 2005-09-06 00:19 · Score: 1

Code proving should take all your examples into account, at least if done properly. It will prove that without doubt a piece of code will give results with certain constraints (e.g. result positive, result is the squareroot of a) if the system state fulfilled certain conditions before (e.g. a positive, b not zero). If, like you said, the old value of r1 was needed somewhere further down you won't be able to prove the code since r1 will no longer contain the value (e.g. the product of a multiplied with b) some lower line demands.

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Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

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Glitch Forces Mars Probe Shut-Off

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