VW Goes USB

MadCow42 writes "According to this story on CNN, Volkswagen is going to offer in-dash USB connections on several models as of this December and others next year. This function is to let you connect your MP3 Player or USB drive to play your tunes on the car stereo! The bad news? I just got my Touran... sans USB."

Comments

How 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

That's nothing compared to Mazda and their use of USB.

Re:How 2003

[Kazuma-san]

Yeah, accodring to what I read, the functionality of this device is quite limited. It is not even able to read id3 tags of the mp3s, so one is better of buying a car radio with usb support. Of course given he can install it in his vw car. I am not sure about this brand, but I know bmw and several other companies had the gatesque idea of making car radio slots, that only match to their own brands, and are confirm to no iso standard in the world

Re:How 2003

[Luke Psywalker]

The new mazda concept is so dam hawt and has features much more /. worthy than the VW:

http://cars.ign.com/articles/647/647699p1.html

Re:How 2003

[Timo_UK]

The Mazda concept is only that - a concept. The VW is in production now, so about 2-3 years ahead.

Re:How 2003

[tomhudson]

... but still behind the aftermarket, which has been making limited-range fm transmitters that let you play your mp3 player, portable compact disk, or whatever through the stereo w/o any wires.

This way you can even share your music at a tailgate party or in a traffic jam.

Re:How 2003

[kamapuaa]

Have you actually used one of those? They're total shit.

Re:How 2003

[Timo_UK]

They sound completely cr*p and are illegal in many countries (including Germany).

Re:How 2003

[Trurl's Machine]

.. but still behind the aftermarket, which has been making limited-range fm transmitters that let you play your mp3 player, portable compact disk, or whatever through the stereo w/o any wires.

I actually do use an iTrip for my iPod and frankly - I hate this solution. The sound quality is mediocre at best - AT BEST!. In order to achieve this mediocre quality, you have to find manually a free frequency spot. Unless you are not lost somewhere in the middle of Sahara desert, it's usually quite hard to find. Seems like in the entire FM range, someone is broadcasting something. And the output power of this limited-range transmitter is limited enough that you actually hear interference from neighboring city.

But even that was not the worst part: the worst part is that even if you succeeded to find the best frequency in your native town (and you can enjoy the mediocre sound quality), as soon as you venture into some road trip, sooner or later this frequency is no longer functional - drive 100 miles or so, and you are likely to catch some strong broadcast on this very channel. So you cannot use this device precisely where you would need it mostly - on long road-trips.

Aftermarket head units can be a solution as they can have (but not always do!) aux line-in stereo jack to plug in your iPod. But first, you might not be that much happy with purchasing an aftermarket car stereo just because you already paid for the OEM one (and even if you manage to sell it on eBay, you lose money on that). Moreover, aftermarket car stereo usually won't be cooperating with remote control built-in into your dashboard or steering wheel. And it is more likely to be stolen, while you can leave your OEM car stereo inside and do not need to worry.

So... aftermarket solutions will never be as good as OEM jack line-in or USB "connect your hard drive here" solution provided by the car vendor.

Re:How 2003

[JabberWokky]

I dunno - I drove on 80 from the Pacific to the Atlantic and happily used a little one I picked up at a truck stop. The sound quality is FM, which isn't CD quality by any stretch, but it was fine for a long trip... which as you say, is exactly where you need it most.

I had to bump the frequency around a couple times, but it was a daily event, and I was driving 8 to 12 hours each day.

Plus, I think that they are referring to aftermarket solutions that *provide* a jack line-in or USB port. I knew people with in dash replacement CD/MP3 players that provided that back in the late 90s.

--
Evan

Re:How 2003

[rikkards]

You should look at this instead:
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD& Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=GN8004&Product_Count= 12&Category_Code=04OTHER

It is designed to hook up to your stereo as an external cd player. Works with most car stereos ironically mine 2002 Cavalier doesn't (2001 yes, 2003 yes but 2002 no:( )

Re:How 2003

[Afrosheen]

LOL! You call that thing hot? You have _got_ to be shitting me. The front grill looks like a Transformer with a big stupid grin on it's face. I totally expect it to light up when it's talking. "Megatron is over that ridge what do we do?!"

  If you like this style of car but want something with less 'rainbow factor', check Nissan's concept at http://www.freshalloy.com/site/cars/nissan/2005/ns c-hatch/home.shtml

Re:How 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly---which is why I want to know why the fuck do OEM car stereos never have line-in jacks. It makes no sense to me.

Re:How 2003

[tomhudson]

Have you actually used one of those? They're total shit.

My kid uses one in her car all the time, and loves it. Guess you got the "Mr. Microphone" version.

Re:How 2003

[arivanov]

And the Cheap and Cheerfull Stereo Company Goodmans sold in Cheap and Cheerfull UK mail order catalogues has had this for more then a year.

In fact I have one in my spare car. 99 pounds for a bundle - 1 Stereo, 1 USB extension cable and 1 64M USB stick (pretty good one actually, USB2, write protect and slim thickness so it fits anywhere.)

I had to recode my several G of ogg to use it, but with the help of ogg2mp3 and some shell scripting it ended up being considerably less painfull then expected.

It is not bad - 320Kbit variable rate MP3, 255 tracks per volume max, 8 directories per volume (which is a pain in the arse). Standard DIN.

Downsides, does not play anything but MP3s and has a phenomenally ugly late 90-es teenager color scheme. Fluorescent red. Yuck...

But for that price I guess I should not be fussy...

Re:How 2003

[iminplaya]

...tailgate party or in a traffic jam.

Aren't they the same thing?

Re:How 2003

[BestNicksRTaken]

do we have a link or model number?

Re:How 2003

[tomhudson]

there's usually more beer and fewer guns at a tailgate party :-)

Re:How 2003

[iminplaya]

...fewer guns at a tailgate party

Ever been to Texas, or Wisconsin? The of the best tailgate parties are far away from the stadium. Definitely some cool WMDs there. Good way to blow off a week's pay in one short afternoon.

Re:How 2003

[iminplaya]

The of the best tailgate parties are far away from the stadium.

Some of the best...awww, screw it.

Re:How 2003

[mabinogi]

The one in my Holden Commodore does, and so do earlier models of the Commodore that I've seen. But that might be just because it doesn't have a CD player.

But in anycase, it sucks. They couldn't have made it noisier if they tried. It's not just my car either, other Commodores I've seen have the same problem.
I just use a tape adapter instead.

Re:How 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

Or your kid could have lower standards? Considering she'll suck any cock she comes across, that would seem to be the case.

Re:How 2003

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the point of using a 320k mp3 if you're transcoding it from vorbis? You might as well stick with a 128k, it'll sound slightly more like ass than the 320k, but be far smaller.

Security?

[Kimos]

All I can think about is security. With viruses and malware being spread through other mobile devices, what's going to happen if your car gets infected?

Re:Security?

[}InFuZeD{]

As far as I know, you can't hide viruses in mp3 files yet, so I don't see how putting an mp3 player in your car stereo is going to be a security risk. This is just the same as your car CD player being able to read mp3s, except on a different medium.

You can take your tin foil hat off now.

Re:Security?

[lemonjelo]

http://www.google.com/search?q=mpg123+vulnerabilit ies

In 2003, two vulnerabilities were discovered in mpg123 that could result in remote code execution when using untrusted input or streaming from an untrusted server.

Just one implementation's example, it's been quite some time since anybody could say that documents in general are harmless.

Re:Security?

[RAMMS EIN]

Indeed, you _shouldn't_ be able to put viruses in data files. However, with many applications handling data files containing buffer overflow vulnerabilities and the like, you can still use a datafile to execute arbitrary code.

Re:Security?

[DrScotsman]

... what's going to happen if your car gets infected?

This.

Re:Security?

[Jozer99]

Download any virus.bat. Right click, then rename. Rename to "tenacious_d_love_supreme.mp3" Voila...

Re:Security?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuckwit. Doesn't run on my ARM-based MP3 player.

Re:Security?

[QQoicu2]

Uhh, not so much. It'll be opened by your media player, not cmd, and the media player will just scratch its head.

Re:Security?

[AyeRoxor!]

If nothing is ever used for anything other than its intent, where do hackers come from?

Your naivetee of USB technology and the history of technology being (ab)used in general is quite endearing. I just wanna pinch your cheeks!

Re:Security?

[jrockway]

What if instead you're using a *nix variant and the file contains a

#!/bin/sh

line at the top? Technically the correct behavior would be to execute it as a shell script (assuming that it's +x, of course, which isn't likely).

Good

[Sv-Manowar]

It's good to see VW using the standard instead of going with the trend and putting ipod adaptors in, like BMW did.

There are other products out there than Apple's, and although the iPod may be the best (personally, i think yes), it does not mean it should be the only one to get car adaptors.

Re:Good

[fliplap]

The iPod adapter was a complete after thought at BMW. BMW put in an AUX input, you can plug in anything to it if you really want.

The only thing that is different is that there is a module you can buy that allows you control the iPod through the stock headunit and steering wheel controls.

Really this can be done with any MP3 player that has a remote if you are willing to put in the time to figure out the signaling for your personal player. BMW's iBus (yes it's really called iBus, no it has nothing todo with Apple's iNaming scheme) is well documented and its easy to write software to read/write to it. I didn't have an MP3 player and I wanted more features than just MP3 ability, for example Wifi scanning controlled through the stock stereo buttons... so I built my own.

Re:Good

[darrylo]

It's good to see VW using the standard instead of going with the trend and putting ipod adaptors in, like BMW did.

This really isn't much better than what BMW did.

The problem is that cars tend to last 10++ years (or so I'd hope), while 10++ years is several lifetimes for computer equipment. In a few years, there will probably be something much better/faster than USB2, which will probably go the way of serial ports.

I'm not saying that no one will use USB2 -- it's that there will probably be something much better/faster, much of what you buy then will be using this newer interface, and so it'll be harder to find USB2 equipment. Look at it this way: you can still get cars with cassette tape players, but how many of you still use cassette tapes???

BMW's much-less publicized Aux input option is really a better choice, as that should have a much longer useful lifetime. Yes, it's low-tech, and doesn't integrate playlists with the car, but it won't have the (likely) short useful lifetime of the ipod adapter or USB2 interface.

Re:Good

[usrusr]

i strongly assume that before usb goes away you can get yourself an usb storage thing (solid state or not, even today you could connect a 3.5 inch external hd if you manage to get around power instabilities while starting the engine) of sufficient size for mp3 applications.

i don't even think you will see any y2015 future gadget that will give an advantage over an aux connection compared to what you can get now over usb, and then you could get even better stuff in the late days of usb2.

ps: you can still buy those 1.4 mb magnetic disk type media, mainstream entertainment electronics stores are still selling drives for that... sure, usb2 won't be the hottest thing 10 years from now, but i would not assume that it will stop "working". usb v1 is over a decade old now and you can still connect any current usb (1 or 2) device and get usb v1 performance. if v2 was not downwards compatible then the market for v1 devices would still be bigger than it is now, and it still exists.

Re:Good

[CrazyTalk]

BMW actually makes two adapters; the iPod specific adapater (which has the advantage of actually being able to control the device , change tracks, etc. from your car stereo) and an "aux" adapter that you can plug anything with a headphone jack into. Using the aux adapter, all you can do from your stereo controls is control the volume so it's not that convenient for using around town - but its great for long trips.

Re:Good

[darrylo]

No, USB is NOT going to go away. That's not the point.

One big point is that, in a few years, your music will probably be on something better/different. In all probability, the music that you listen to, will only be on a couple different devices (maybe even one). Or, do you like using different devices like a cassette player, a phonograph player, a compact disk player, an MP3 player, and (since we're talking about it) a USB stick??? For most people, the answer is going to be, "no", and most people would probably want their music to be on as few devices as possible. Yes, USB devices will still be around, but you'll probably have transferred the music to some better medium/device (which might not work in a car with a USB port, but would work with an aux port).

In all probablity, you won't want to use music on a USB stick in a few years (although, if you're stuck with a car with a USB port, you'll be stuck with it, much like people were stuck with cars with 8-track tape players).

An aux port, low-tech as it is, means that you'll be able to use whatever media device du-jour exists in a few years. With a USB port, you're probably screwed.

Re:Good

[joe_bruin]

You seem to misunderstand the article. This IS an ipod adapter (or another optional adapter that is not compatible with the ipod but is with other players). According to the article, this interface gives you access to just the first 6 playlists on the ipod, which is a common misfeature of the current BMW ipod adapter. The only difference is that it is installed in the factory (or more likely at the dealership).

Once again, this is a CD Changer to Ipod adapter. Nothing new here, folks.

The REAL Bad News is...

[Ann Elk]

...despite all of the techno-whizzy gadgets, they're still powered by refined petroleum products.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[polysylabic psudonym]

they're still powered by refined petroleum products.

I said in another post to this story that my next car would be a VW. Why? Because:

1. Their diesels are very fuel efficient;
2. You can make fuel for diesels in your shed out of renewable vegetable or animal oils.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[slughead]

The REAL Bad News is ... they're still powered by refined petroleum products.

As opposed to unrefined coal products, as most electricity in the US is produced from?

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[WilliamSChips]

I get my electricity from uranium products, you insensitive clod!

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Eightyford]

Petroleum is a miracle energy source, and is probably the number one contributing factor in humankind advancement in the last 100 years. If you can go without plastics, the postal service, public transportation, cheap food, and thousands of other things that you take for granted, then do it!

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[antifoidulus]

and cats!

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[polysylabic psudonym]

Still get sulfer, and how much fat does a cat carry?

In fact, humans aside, what animal would be best for fat production? What would have the best fat per square meter of floor space ratio? What would have the best food to fat conversion efficiency?

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[polysylabic psudonym]

Of the things you list, only plastics have any great need for petroleum products. Why do we burn oil when it's so damn useful for other things?
We can run IC engines just as well on ethanol or biodiesel. If you want to run it on a petroleum product, use one that's not suitable for plastics, say natural gas or LPG.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Ann Elk]

Where did I write anything about doing away with all petroleum usage? I'm not suggesting that we stop "cold turkey" -- I am suggesting that getting all wet and excited about a fucking USB port is rather pathetic in the context of the larger global energy problems we're facing.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[antifoidulus]

You just set yourself up for a VERY easy "your mom" joke.....

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Eightyford]

I understand that, but there is no reason to ignore the little things (like VW using USB), in favor of obsessing about the big things (peak oil etc.)

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Be sure to check out A Day Without Oil to find out more.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Anonymous Coward]

...despite all of the techno-whizzy gadgets, they're still powered by refined petroleum products.

No. They're powered by whatever fuel you put in them. If you *choose* to use refined petroleum products, you can, but you don't have to.

I drive my VW on 100% biodiesel -- refined from vegetable oil -- and it runs great. Cleaner and smoother and generally better for the engine than that petroleum crap most people use.

Sure, I *could* run it on refined fossil fuels, if I wanted to, but why would I?

It's especially strange to say this about VW, who is the only carmaker to still sell diesel passenger cars in the US! Any other carmaker *requires* you to use those dirty fossil fuels (even hybrids like the Prius).

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Kickersny.com]

Still get sulfer, and how much fat does a cat carry? You clearly have seen met my cat.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[CrackedButter]

Unless he was talking about your mum.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[NanoGator]

" I am suggesting that getting all wet and excited about a fucking USB port is rather pathetic in the context of the larger global energy problems we're facing."

Are you expecting a flood of people to read this article and go buy the car or something?

Lighten up.

Re:The REAL Bad News is...

[Legion303]

I thought the real bad news is that it's a VW.

Why USB?

[Roguelazer]

Can anybody explain to me why they'd offer USB for this? Personally, I'd prefer it if they'd just give me a line-in jack. It'd work with everything, rather than requiring the car to have drivers for the player. The article's pretty sparse on details, too. Does this require the iPod to be formatted for Windows (in the case of the iPod)? Does it support anything that mounts as a generic USB Mass Storage Device? Is this some idiotic version of Microsoft's CarPC software, and therefore vulnerable to everything that CE is vulnerable to?

Re:Why USB?

[bhtooefr]

The way they describe it, it [b]HAS[/b] to be USB Mass Storage.

It looks like there's an iPod dock as well, though, so it might have a way to read a Mac-formatted iPod.

Something tells me it's a VERY simple system reading from a USB mass storage controller, and feeding MP3s (and AACs - it'd have to, seeing as there's an iPod dock) into a codec chip.

Re:Why USB?

[sabre307]

They're doing this in USB instead of a line-in jack because they're probably getting kick-backs from Apple and Creative for insenting customers to buy adapters and stuff. If it was line-in, you could go to RadioShack and get a cheap cable.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

because car companies are cheap?

i know my car purchase is totally dependent
on the stereo inside. nothing else matters.

slashdot is so boring now days.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

you could go to RadioShack and get a cheap cable
 
That sentence seems a bit contradictory. I've never seen anything cheap inside a radioshack.

Re:Why USB?

[JimmyJava]

the problem with a line-in is the D/A conversion. your volume will always have some sort of hiss to it. put the mp3 player up too loud and it'll crackle. Too low, and you'll get nothing but hiss. Which is why I went with the Dension IceLink for my ipod. It stands in line with my monsoon stereo and acts like a CD changer. The signal is straight digital to the stereo. The only volume to worry about is on the stereo, and all the play controls are on the stereo as well.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'd prefer ... a line-in jack."

Me, too! I bought a Ford Escape three years ago, and asked around at the couple audio-electronics stores for a small EQ/amp with a line-in. Nobody had anything, and most of them told it would never work. So, I went to eBay, and found what I needed, and two cable harnesses so I wouldn't need to cut any of the factory wires. Took me an hour to solder and insulate all the wire connections. Pulled the radio out and unhooked the wire harness. Plugged one end of the new EQ wiring inbetwixt the radio and the wiring harness. Plugged my Rio Karma into the EQ line-in, and had MY music or Audible books coming out of the speakers. Definitely a must-have when you live in Nowhere, WI, and can only get polkas, country, or top-40/crap. Had to [un,re]plug everything to get the EQ into the glove box, but it's been working great ever since.

First song played: SRV's 'Riviera Paradise'

Re:Why USB?

[LlamaDragon]

Only benefit I can see is that USB could power some of the items (like the iPod) while a line-in couldn't. But seeing as how most people don't usually take too many 8+ hour car trips, I can't see the benefit of USB over line-in.

And for the people complaining about Digital-to-Analog quality and a hiss sound...give me a break, it's in a car. If you can silence the road/wind noise completely, then you can claim hiss on your car stereo is an issue.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

The main benefit to USB over a line in is that you can control the ipod from the head unit instead of the ipod itself. I'd much rather be able to use the steering wheel controls for the stereo instead of fumbling around looking for the ipod and then using the ipod screen while driving to select "love shack".

Re:Why USB?

[devaldez]

Could it be that they want to have digital transfer until the DA converter gets it? In other words, they are providing a higher-quality passthrough than simply sticking the analog output through a bunch of routing.

I'd definitely find digital transfer more compelling than analog...but that's just me.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Volkswagen New Beetle's at year 2004 and up already have a plain line-in jack. The rest of the Volkswagens can be hacked into for line-in using the VWCDPIC and the CD Changer cable in the trunk.

Re:Why USB?

[MoonBuggy]

Cheapass pendrives/IDE HDDs in USB converter boxes don't have line out, or indeed any of the necessary audio processing chips.

It might not be the _best_ reason in the world, but it does sound like a nice feature to be able to just stick a cheap 40GB drive in your car with a USB adaptor, don't you think?

Re:Why USB?

[Roguelazer]

Not really. Then you have to live with the car's (probably abyssmal) menu system, the lack of portability of your audio device, etc.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

The products are cheap.
The prices aren't.

Re:Why USB?

[insignificant1]

I have an external amp driving my speakers... so the head unit has line-out and the amp has line-in. I just needed to get a splitter to put at the 'line-in' and attached a 3.5mm cable long enough to deliver to me in the driver's seat. Works pretty well, though a pre-amp section would be ideal; this was a cheap solution (splitter+cable+negligible labor) given I already had the amp.

Re:Why USB?

[morcheeba]

That's great reasoning for a home stereo, but hiss isn't as much of a problem in cars because there is so much other background noise... engine, wind, wheels. Yep, you're still limited to a range of inputs, but I was lucky and found maximum-volume works with my line-in adapter.

The ipod doesn't have a digital audio out. I don't see why you think the icelink has this. I'm not saying it couldn't -- it could mount the ipod as a drive and do its own mp3 playback of the data files -- but that's not the intuitive approach.

Re:Why USB?

[DavidTC]

I have an 92 (?) Pontiac Sunbird, and used to use a tape adapter for line in. Sadly, the tape player shorted out one day. (And kept my damn tape adapter.)

I went on the net, found a wiring diagram of the input, and built a box. (From an old parallel printer buffer box, of all things.) Not only do I have two RCA plugs for line-in, I have a switch that closes the 'tape in player' contact, which switch the radio from radio to 'tape'.

And I ripped the board out of a car DC adapter thingy to provide 4.5 volts out, which is what what most portable CD players want, and stuck that in there. That wasn't just for fun, it ensures the CD player goes on and off with the radio. (And with the switch, too.) So I can't accidently leave it on, and the adapter doesn't waste any power happen merely because it's plugged, even without it powering anything.

Sadly, I appear to have misplaced the little plug at the end of it for my Walkman, and Radio Shack inexplicably want 3 dollars for something that 10 of them come with a 12 dollar adapter. I guess I'll just buy another adapter and take the plug from it.

It really wasn't that complicated, even a complete incompetant at wiring like me could do it. While many cars do not have 'line-in', they usually have something at the right level to accept a line in, just no plugs for it.

The trick, of course, would be getting an adapter to plug in. I was in luck as I had a fried tape deck to cut the plug off of.

And you might have to make a choice between an already existing tape deck input and a line-in, or do rather a lot more wiring than I did so you can switch back and forth.

Re:Why USB?

[RJabelman]

The signal from the IceLink isn't digital to the stereo - it uses the line-level audio output from the iPod. (Clue: you can set the level in the menu)

Re:Why USB?

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

Why is there more than one D/A conversion going on if your car stereo has a line-in? The mp3 player would convert it to analog, and why would the stero convert it to digital again? It just needs to amplify the line-in.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhh, what you describe is "Line-in". I have the same thing on my car stereo, using an adapter that lets me plug into the CD changer input with my iPod. I use the dock connector, for Line-Out, unamplified audio output. It goes into the Line-In intended for CD changer usage.

The only difference is that you can use the cd changer controls to have some control over the iPod. From an audio perspective, it's just line-level audio.

Re:Why USB?

[toddestan]

The big advantage is that you could use cheap USB thumbdrives to load the car with tunes, as it would appear that the car doesn't use any of the MP3 player's actual functionality. Hopefully the USB port will be able to supply enough current for a 2.5" HDD. If the car's interface is good enough, I think it would be better than messing with your MP3 player's interface while trying to drive.

Re:Why USB?

[jafac]

optical audio would be sweet.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

that was pretty stupid reply and you guys think it is 'informative'? "why USB"? Your alternative suggestion is just silly by comparison.

drivers for the various mp3 players? thats silly too.

I can tell you I only know a ocuple of people with MP3 players.. but I know dozens and dozens who have a USB flash memory drive as a keychain.

Most people, regardless of what Apple's marketing would tell you, only listen to music here, there, nut NOT everywhere.

Here and there is usually 'in the car', 'at the office' and almost never involves wearing headphones.

hey, your an ass-hole, so I dont expect you to undrstand. This has nothing to do with mp3 players, the car stereo is the mp3 player, the USB is a means to get the files there.

but since you a big PRICK you might as well go elsewhere.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Take your oh-so-cool indie ass the fuck out of my gene pool, scumsucker.

I'm willing to bet your homosexuality makes this bit a unlikely problem anyway...

Re:Why USB?

[Billly Gates]

I own an ipod-mini and something called an I-travel. Itravel uses fm/am radio to stream the audio out to my car stereo.

Its a hack and nothing more. Sure I can listen to podcasts ok I suppose.

But the sound quality is very bad. It hisses and its very quiet. The second you turn the volume up on the ipod the sound crackles and the distortion in both bass and trebble appear. Its so bad I want to turn off the ipod and just listen to the radio.

Sure an input jack is a much better option but it too suffers from these sound quality problems.

I wish my ipod did have a digital ouptut. I wonder if icelink has a dc/ac converter to make it digital to the stereo?

Re:Why USB?

[sconeu]

So that they won't make the RIAA mad, and they can use DRM inline.

Re:Why USB?

[elgaard]

1. To make you control the player with the car controls.
2. To get digital input
3. USB can charge your USB-device so the batteries does not run flat.
    A lot more practical than the cigarette outlet.
4. If it does mount as a generic USB Mass Storage Device it does not even need to be a music player. You can use any $10 USB stick. Or a 60GByte disk in a USB-adaptor. Or put music on your digial camera and have the camera charged at the same time.

Re:Why USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

The other reason would be to have the ability to display track information on the stereo.

Re:Why USB?

[tji]

> Sure an input jack is a much better option but it too suffers from these sound quality problems.

I don't know why you think this would be true. FM transmitters have poor sound quality with all kinds of interference. There is no major problem with analog line-out.. This is the same thing your home CD player uses to connect to your stereo amplifier.

Do you get crackles and distortion when listening to your iPod with headphones? ( if you do, return it for a replacement, because yours is bad ).

Of course, you can get unamplified Line-Out via the dock connector. The Belkin car adapter I use hooks into the dock connector, getting line-out, and also charging the iPod. I hook that into the Line-In adapter on my car stereo (I use an adapter that plugs into the CD changer input), and it sounds great. I don't have any issues like the interference you mention.

Cool - hacks soon?

[polysylabic psudonym]

I was planning on my next car being a VW - with a bit of luck there'll be a few good VW USB hacks.

Uh oh

[SsShane]

"Found new hardwa-" CRASH

Re:Uh oh

[Joey Patterson]

Looks like you'll need to reboot with your USB key.

Re:Uh oh

[Anonymous Coward]

Can it handle an USB driving wheel or job sticks? At least it is not drive by wires ... ;)

Re:Uh oh

[JFlex]

Hey hey hey, he said Volkswagen.. NOT Micro$oft...

Nothing new...

[}InFuZeD{]

There are a few Japanese/Chinese (one of the two) car stereo companies that have been doing this for a while. There's one I was checking out on eBay called "SoundStorm" that allowed for USB and Secure Digital slots. I'm not sure if you could drop an iPod shuffle in there or anything, but my guess is you can.

I think JVC might even make a model with USB and SD. I know they at least make one with SD.

Regardless, VW isn't really being innovative, they're just picking up on some cheap stereo technology and (hopefully) improving it (my guess is these $90 stereos with SD and USB aren't too great sound-wise).

Re:Nothing new...

[pe1rxq]

A $90 stereo will probably be better than 90% of the users can hear. The speakers have a far greater influence on that. The other 10% is usually fooling themselves (ie the kind that thinks they hear better with their wallets empty).

Jeroen

Re:Nothing new...

[mobby_6kl]

A friend of mine got himself one of these Yakumo car stereos, it accepts MP3s on SD and USB memory. I can't say much about the quality, but I guess it sounded nice enough. We tried playing some files from both a SD and USB sources and it worked fine, reading 320kbps MP3s without any problems.

Re:Nothing new...

[leenks]

Yeah you can connect your iPod to one, but you would not want to. Just like you wouldn't want to connect up a large hard drive or memory card. The user interface on these cheap head units (particularly the models you mention) is awful - you have to find tracks by file number, not by album / artist etc, and have to jump through either 1 or 10 at a time.

its about time

[Bluntzilla]

my buddy mounted a 19" lcd and mini case in his ford explorer with all wireless accessories. thats what im waiting for in cars...

More Bad News: No Vorbis

[RAMMS EIN]

``The bad news? I just got my Touran... sans USB.''

That, and I bet it doesn't support Ogg Vorbis. I understand this is because of lack of consumer demand and visibility, but it still hurts me that support for an open, royaltee-free and superior format is so utterly lacking.

Re:More Bad News: No Vorbis

[R.D.Olivaw]

" If you're so obsessed with "freedom" to rip your music into a format which nothing supports, Volkswagen isn't really expecting to get $20,000 from you for one of its cars. Knowing you, you wouldn't buy the car unless they agreed to give you the source code for the onboard computers and the complete schematics for every part down to the bare metal."

really? My whole music collection is in ogg and my car is a BMW. It's not an all or nothing deal. If VW or BMW want to sell me a car that would only srive on the roads of their choosing then I wouldn't buy it either. As it happens, they drive on the 'open standards' roads. he didn't ask for a player with schematics. he asked for a player that would play the music format of his choosing.

Re:More Bad News: No Vorbis

[Brett Buck]

>``The bad news? I just got my Touran... sans
>USB.''
>
>That, and I bet it doesn't support Ogg Vorbis. I
>understand this is because of lack of consumer
>demand and visibility, but it still hurts me that
>support for an open, royaltee-free and superior
>format is so utterly lacking.

      Not to be a wise guy, but supporting a format that quite literally *no one* outside a small group of hard-core OSS programmers have ever heard of would be completely absurd.

    In any case, the correct answer to the "device compatibilty" issue (as mentioned in other responses) is to instead provide analog line in. It's not as clean as "digital" but if properly implemented the signal degradation will be completely beyond anyone's ability to hear, even if it were sitting in your living room. If you hear artifacts from using analog inputs vice digital, the analog is not implemented correctly.

  And need I point out that we are talking about listening to music IN A CAR - i.e. a glass/metal box connected to an internal combusion engine and whzzing down the highway at 80 mph. The fidelity requirements for an audio system in those conditions are not daunting.

      Brett

Re:More Bad News: No Vorbis

[Anonymous Coward]

No one gives a fuck

Re:More Bad News: No Vorbis

[usrusr]

just forwarding a link from another post, http://www.onlinekosten.de/news/artikel/18572 says "yes, with vorbis".

i was as surprised as you are. guess with the power consumption issues of a protable device removed it is easier to fit in some cheap microcontroller powerfull enough to do vorbis without expensive optimizations to the code.

last downside left is that navigation seems to be limited to selecting between 5+1 subfolders, thanks to the UI being a leftover from cd changers, instead of supporting real tree navigation. but i guess these issues will more likely go away than a lack of vorbis support would, so it's absolutely a step into the right direction.

and when the first device on the market is supporting a certain feature (in this case ogg vorbis) then the "copycats" won't dare to offer less, so this could be an important step for mainstream vorbis ability.

Re:More Bad News: No Vorbis

[drxray]

Check this out.

Ogg is 12% of all P2Ped music. That's quite a lot.

Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can plug in a force-feedback steering wheel!

Re:Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up, that's damn funny :-)

Be realistic

[matt me]

Only the most foolish designers in the world would manage to some how connect the in-car stereo system to say, the braking system. The most any malware could do would be to play some really annoying sounds at you - or perhaps amusingly, sirens (esp if vehicle has surround!) - and even then, you'd be able to turn down the volume until you got to the garage - unless of course, they were so *intelligent* they gave the car an *intelligent* volume system that balances with the noise of the road. So I think we're safe for now, although I never underestimate the geniuses working in the motor-vehicle industry.

I ride a bike.

Re:Be realistic

[polysylabic psudonym]

Such "intelligent" volume controls exist. I had a Holden (Opel) Astra with automatic volume change based on speed.

Re:Be realistic

[bhtooefr]

Yep. 1995 Chevy Silverado 3500. The stereo's got a "SCV" (speed compensated volume) control with five settings (off, low, medium, high, and very high). Then, of course, there's the regular volume knob. The volume knob sets base volume (read: what the volume is at at 0MPH or with SCV turned off).

Re:Be realistic

[neuro.slug]

Right, but I would really, really hope that said volume control simply reads data, like what the speedometer gets, and sets volume according to that. It's not like changing the volume slows your car down or anything...

-- n

Re:Be realistic

[technothrasher]

Only the most foolish designers in the world would manage to some how connect the in-car stereo system to say, the braking system.

Don't be so sure. A lot of modern OEM radios are tied into the car's central CAN bus, so they can do things like talk to the CD changer, get input from the steering wheel buttons, or put info onto the LCD in the instrument cluster. If the radio device has enough programability to put fake packets onto the bus (not completely unbelievable, given the complex navigation radios these days), it could probably do all kinds of scary things.

Re:Be realistic

[Takumi2501]

You're right. It's only a matter of time. Even if the technology is too limited now, it's on it's way.

After all, who would have thought 10-15 years ago that you'd be able to get a virus on your cell phone or electronic organizer?

Re:Be realistic

[Anonymous Coward]

And VW's have had this for a few years in their cars as default, it's called GALA i think :|

Re:Be realistic

[timeOday]

Correction, a lot of new cars have *multiple* CAN busses. The engine management bus is SEPARATE from the interior controls bus, for obvious reasons. Come on, people, auto engineers aren't that stupid.

Re:Be realistic

[arivanov]

BMW does that as well. In fact I think all new ones that are supposed to be sporty are like this.

Re:Be realistic

[mallardtheduck]

But what happens when some PHB realises he could cut costs by combining the buses?

Re:Be realistic

[thogard]

The 94 Saab 900 had three (ABS, engine and other) but the radio got a speed signal which originated with the speed sensors which I assumed would be hooked to the ABS bus. The misc bus also knew about stuff like brake lights being out so it has to know when the brakes are pressed.

Re:Be realistic

[Anonymous Coward]

And multiple controllers are hooked to multiple busses.

I only know heavy trucks and have heard rumors of Delphi cars, but I would not be at all surprised to hear of viruses crashing cars or trucks via systems like 'On Star'. (I don't know specifically about 'On Star'.) These telematics devices often run on PPP over either cell or sat networks.

I know that XM data feeds drive cluster information in Delphi components. Could someone override an XM signal? Want your neighbor's car to display "Door ajar dumbass!" ?

The controllers getting messages may not be on private busses, but are attached to devices which are attached to private busses. (The instrument panel does get info from public and private sources right?!)

So, yes, writing these viruses would be very difficult, but possible. (Remember, the engineering of these device assume that the private bus is private, so they don't have the security that they probably should given the criticallity of the system.)

Actually

[Anonymous Coward]

It does support Ogg Vorbis, but only because that's the official music codec of David Hasselhoff, and you know... Germans love David Hasselhoff.

USB car stereo

[amembleton]

You can buy in-car stereo's that have USB connectors, then you could put them into any car. My car stereo has a line in, so I can plug any audio device into it.

The following are examples of what you can get in the UK, (USB in-car stereo wise):
Goodmans GCE7205USB2 CD/Radio - £89.99
Acoustic Solution CD/MP3 with USB Tuner - £99.99

They're both from Argos, you could probably get them cheaper from an internet only store. There were some more expensive though better brand name stereos at halfords, but I can't find any details on their website.

Re:USB car stereo

[AchilleTalon]

And what about this gizmo?

For the sole purpose of listening at music, it seems to do the job. I don't have this gizmo, I rather than use a special cassette with a stereo jack to my Zaurus 6000-SL and it's working fine.

What would be better than a USB jack IMHO, a CF slot or SD slot to insert 2GB of music on a post stamp directly in a Ogg/MP3 player.

Re:USB car stereo

[amembleton]

They're great, although illigal to use in the UK!

My local garage is selling them, or similar ones and it has to state on the packaging that it is illigal to use, but of course they still sell them.

Re:USB car stereo

[leenks]

Why are they illegal to use? (I'm in the UK and I can't see anything from the description that makes them illegal...)

Re:USB car stereo

[NetNifty]

At a guess I'd assume it would be due to unlicenced use of the licensed FM frequencies.

Re:USB car stereo

[leenks]

My bad, I missed the post about the FM transmitter.. oops!

it says it supports ipods and "other"

[humuhumunukunukuapu']

"The option comes in two varieties, one for the iPod, another for other USB-based players. Up to six of the player's folders will be displayed on the car stereo system, and the radio buttons can be used to scan, search or shuffle your mix."

Bacon grease.

[Karma_fucker_sucker]

... animal oils.

It'd be great if we could use bacon grease. That way the air around the roads would smell like cooking bacon. It would make the commute so much nicer!

Re:Bacon grease.

[polysylabic psudonym]

Funny you say that. A thought I had was to get myself a pig farm, cut up the pigs, remove the fat for conversion to biodiesel, sell the meat as low fat.

Only trouble is that by using animal fats you end up with noteworthy quantities of sulfur in the fuel. Better to use vegetable oils.

Re:Bacon grease.

[Karma_fucker_sucker]

Only trouble is that by using animal fats you end up with noteworthy quantities of sulfur in the fuel. Oooo, yuck! So, instead of smelling like a Sunday morning, my commnute will smell like a Saturday morning shit after a night of drinking?

Re:Bacon grease.

[polysylabic psudonym]

Oooo, yuck! So, instead of smelling like...

No, I wasn't making a point about the odour, I'm not sure that it would smell bad at all - does pork crackling stink? Sulfur's undesirable from air pollution and engine deposits points of view.

Re:Bacon grease.

[WilliamSChips]

Actually, pure sulfur smells like matches.

good news?

[bokmann]

but did you save a bunch of money on your car insurance?

USB upgrades ...

[thrill12]

I guess that's the next step, upgrading your VW firmware using your USB-connection.
And the step after that ? Installing your own applications on your VW using that same USB-connection:
Pimp My VW

But ofcourse you knew that already :)

Yes, but does it run L...

[Seehund]

... sorry.
Does it play Ogg Vorbis?

Re:Yes, but does it run L...

[gonk]

Yes:

http://www.onlinekosten.de/news/artikel/18572

it's about time

[Anonymous Coward]

The automakers are way behind in this area. A simple line in would be a start. The usb is nice but I have to wonder (w/o rtfa) with what players it would be compatible. I'd really like to see apple make a car stereo. I spend about 10 hours a week listening to podcasts/music in my car.

DRM too?

[twiddlingbits]

Will the player enforce DRM on anything you stick in? Once the RIAA knows about this and has it's way you'll be just as subject to the DRM issues in your car as on your PC!

"I'm sorry Hal, I can't let you play that, it is pirated"

Re:DRM too?

[Knossos]

Wouldn't it say I'm sorry Dave?

Good point though, they won't make a fuss out of it until more manufacturers are doing it with their cars though.

Re:DRM too?

[dreamquick]

"I'm sorry Hal, I can't let you play that, it is pirated"

And you call yourself a geek! Two acceptable alternatives would have been...

HAL: "I'm sorry *Dave*, I can't let you play that"

HAL: "I'm sorry *Cowboyneal*, I can't let you play that"

Re:DRM too?

[twiddlingbits]

LOL..my brain works faster than my fingers and I was off thinking about something else and I should have previewed my post before I sent it. My bad. Hal, open the (i)Pod Bay doors!

Re:DRM too?

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

I'm sorry HAL, I can't let you tell me that you're sorry but you're afraid you can't do what I'm asking.

Stupid computer. Get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich.

Here's a picture:

[Timo_UK]

http://www.germancarblog.com/2005/09/vw-get-connec ted.html I saw this at the IAA car show yesterday, and it looks cool. I saw the Ipod adapter as well, and it simulates a CD-canger, so only the first 5 playlists are accessible as disks 1-5, the 6th disks are lists 1-5 together.

What it appears to be...

[emeb2]

For those who can't be bothered to RTFA, the reason this is different from a simple line-in on the existing stereo: It seems that they're putting a USB host port on the in-dash audio system which allows it to mount your portable digital audio player as USB Storage. This allows the system to navigate and play your MP3/AAC/etc files using the in-dash display, rather than requiring you to fumble with the portable's UI. That also implies that it will play it using the in-dash device's decoder. Of course, it depends on what kind of portable you've got on whether this is an improvement or not. Personally, I like just having a line-in.

Re:What it appears to be...

[cosmic_0x526179]

It seems that they're putting a USB host port on the in-dash audio system which allows it to mount your portable digital audio player as USB Storage.

OK, So far so good...

This allows the system to navigate and play your MP3/AAC/etc files using the in-dash display, rather than requiring you to fumble with the portable's UI. That also implies that it will play it using the in-dash device's decoder.

But... if all the files on the iPod are Fairplay DRM'ed doesn't the OS in the iPod have to get involved in order to decode the files ? For MP3 files, this would be a non-issue. But I see RIAA having kittens (of a sort) if the iPod decrypted the AAC file, then sent the decrypted audio-stream over to the dashboard unit for DA and amplification. Sounds like someone could USB tap the stream and get a look at the unencrypted data. OTOH, the encrypted AAC might be sent over to the dashboard unit, which leads to other interesting questions about authorizing the in-car unit for those files. Could it be that the iPod would decrypt the AAC files then establish a SSH session with the indash unit to move the data securely ? Zounds !

a car that brakes when...

[lonedroid]

a car that brakes when you push on the brakes pedal.

I'm all for devices that helps to drive the car, but only as long as, in last resort, you've got physical control on the car. In France we've seen several cars where the "cruise control" when berzerk and the car wouldn't decelerate anymore, people getting locked in their car (usually there's a manual procedure to open the windows/sunroof but not everybody is aware of this, etc.), etc. To summarize, lots of stupid, dumb "electronic failures" (really software failures 99% of the time).

Can you trust such a manufacturer to safely implement USB support?

Recently I had a Land Rover that wouldn't want to pass the 2nd gear and whose 1st gear was "hi" only when I was selecting "low 4wd" (got "fixed" by a reset of the device at the dealer). So this Land Rover has an nearly bullet-proof engine, but is f*scked up by stupid electronics. Sad. Really.

All I can say is "What The F*cking F*ck?" (I didn't coined that question).

I, for one, don't welcome our new "let's build cars full of gizmos that needs to be rebooted as often as certain mainstream OSes" overlords.

I may be part of a small minority, but there *are* people who wants a car that simply brakes when you hit the brakes pedal (I accept a device, like ABS, that helps, but only as long as if it fails the pedal still acts on the brake). Even if it's a niche market there are people, today, who buys, says, a Lotus Elise... A car that brakes when you push on the brakes pedal.

By the way, I'd like a car where all primary functions (moving, switching gears, braking, turning, etc.) were on an completely independant system than the gizmos. But it's not the way it is for the moment: "oh, you activated the wipers three seconds after switching to 3rd gear, that causes an IllegalStateException!".

So, well... consumer, have fun with your gizmo'ed VW TDIxtv-USB 2.0 "please reboot me", I'll stick with my late 80's 911 carrera (where the only piece of electronic controls the injection)...

And I hope you don't forget to ph34r 3133t h4x0rs for they'll be "own0r1ng y0ur piece-of-consumer-crap by Bluetooth" at the traffic light.

On a positive note: don't worry, that's just the beginning. Soon you'll get spam and "automatic updates" even if you didn't ask for it!

:)

Re:a car that brakes when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm...I'm pretty sure that the USB is only for the stereo, i.e. the USB support has absolutely nothing to do with the embedded system that's actually running your vehicle, and is a completely independent system.

So, your stereo rebooting would have 0 effect on the safety and mechanics of your vehicle.

Re:a car that brakes when...

[DavidTC]

That's nothing.

I want a car where all primary functions are on their own completely independant systems.

For example, why on earth do power steering and brakes fail if the engine does? Within the last decade, they've made amazing advances in the field of hydrolics, and now they can build a pump that operates solely on electricity. That's right, folks, no more will you have to buy gasoline for your water pump at your well!

No, seriously. Cars have almost no failsafes. One or two in the brake system, but that's about it.

Re:a car that brakes when...

[gonk]

Brakes on cars are generally redundant systems that work without the engine running. Yes, most cars have power-assisted brakes, and without the engine running, it will be much harder to stop the car, but it is entirely possible.

The same is true of power-steering systems. Yes, the car will be harder to steer, but not impossible, particularly if the car is moving.

As to why there aren't secondary systems for other major functions of the car, well, it just isn't needed. I can't even remember the last major failure that I've experienced in an automobile[1]. Oh. Now I do. I dropped a valve seat in my 2110cc ~150hp '66 VW Bug. That was years ago and I had a set of used heads on the car while doing some work on the good set.

robert

[1] It happens that VWs are the only cars I've ever owned. People might argue otherwise, but I've found them to be extremely reliable.

Re:a car that brakes when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy cow, do you know anything about cars?

OK, today steering and braking are power -assisted-. They are different systems than each other or the engine. When your engine dies, you loose the assitance of the engine to stop and steer. But you still can.

No failsafes? For what? You have brakes that will still work, you have a parking (or -emergency- brake) you have steering that still works, and you can probably leave the car in gear and expect the engine drag to help slow you down. (Case in point, I have a '64 Wagoneer. Bear in mind it has 4 wheel manual drum brakes, so I just about have to downshift and use the engine if I expect to stop in a timely manner)

If this was an airplane we were talking about, where failure of a system will mean death, then more failsafes sure. But this is a vehicle that if it dies, you coast to the side of the road. I have a buddy building an airplane, and I am building a jeep, so I am fully aware of both....

Re:a car that brakes when...

[DavidTC]

I know quite a lot about cars. You, OTOH, are apparently an idiot who didn't get that I said power steering and brakes fail if your engine dies, which they do, because they rely on the engine to provide pressure. The power assist fails. Normal brakes and steering still function fine, however, it is hard to stop the car or steer with them.

And nothing you said gives the slightest explanation of why there couldn't be an emergency electrical pump to cut in and provide hydralic pressure for power steering and brakes for another thirty seconds. Or, hell, for operating the car while in neutral without starting it at all.

Re:a car that brakes when...

[DavidTC]

How about the cooling system? I've had that fail on a few cars, and not only did that cause rather serious problems, the car took its own sweet time about bothering to inform me of it, too.

How about the lights? Why isn't there something that tell us if we try to send current through a light and it doesn't complete the circuit?

Of course, they fail to detect when a damn spark plug isn't firing, so asking them to detect when a light isn't working is absurd.

Cars absolutely refuse to communicate with us for some reason. They have some idiot lights that come on when something is really wrong, and they sometimes have a few gauges that aren't that useful and we have to check all the time.

I shouldn't have to read a gauge and realize if it's showing 12 volts when the car's running, my alternator is broken, despite that being within the 'allowable area'. The car should know it's supposed to have 15-16 volts when the engine is on, and 12 when it's not, and tell me if, and only if, it's different, at which point it should tell me enough that I can diagnose the problem if I know stuff about cars, and at least figure out the severity if I don't.

Bad news?

[Moderator]

The bad news? I just got my Touran..

I'm sorry.

It was just my poor...

[Karma_fucker_sucker]

attempt at humor.

I won't give up my day job.

I actually know some folks in Berkely who are running their turbo-deisel on vegatable oil. Cool, Huh?

Volume Controll

[Kazuma-san]

I also stumbled across this feat installing my car radio in my ancient golf. But I also noticed I never found a radio supporting this. Does anyone know wether they still implement speed based volume controll in modern cars or wether they abandoned this idea?

Re:Volume Controll

[MeWhOeLsE]

Our VW sharan (7 seater) has this... its been in a few other cars I've seen ove the past few years... al european cars though

Re:Volume Controll

[rikkards]

Pretty much most new GM cars do. Cavalier, sunfire, saturn, etc. Had it for about a week before I turned it off

Re:The REAL Bad News is... you're buying a VW

[maeglin]

I said in another post to this story that my next car would be a VW. Why? Because:

1. Their diesels are very fuel efficient;
2. You can make fuel for diesels in your shed out of renewable vegetable or animal oils.


plus...

3. It's fun replacing O2 sensors.
4. You enjoy mysterious check engine messages.
5. Paying a premium for a plethora of replacement parts is sweet!

This all a bit OT, but, seriously, I haven't been so disapointed with anything in a long time as much as I am with my VW (and I even own a PSP).

I purchased a Jetta GLX and about two weeks later the glove compartment latch fell off. It's been going down hill ever since.

It was a cool car but the quality level has made me bitter about my purchase.

These people also seem a bit peeved:

http://www.myvwlemon.com/

questions

[Barbarian]

Will the car computer fry if your kid sticks something conductive in the USB slot? (the way your home pc will)?

Why not use bluetooth?

Re:questions

[PlasticMonkey]

Will the car computer fry if your kid sticks something conductive in the USB slot? (the way your home pc will)?

You'll find that most computers will just reboot if you stick something conductive in the USB slot. Also, I think it's fairly difficult to short circuit unintentionally anyway as +5v is at one side of the cable and Ground the opposite.

Back on topic, the usb ports will/would most likely to be wired directly to the radio/cd player so that in the unlikely event that a short circuit did occur, it would be the radio that would restart, not the OBC.

If the USB ports were wired into the OBC, not only would they have to make sure the car had a low-tech failsafe in event of a restart, but that no USB device could access the computer directly in any way.

Mobile Computing

[Doc Ruby]

How long before VW releases an iBook designed by their engineers to look like the car into which we plug it? Like "Eddie Bauer edition" SUVs. There are already some notebooks designed by car designers, so this should happen immediately.

But things get really interesting when the desktop and dashboard of these devices start to converge. That "VWBook" will surely have some applets installed for a UI of the car. A later model VW will probably have dashboard displays of "computer" info, like MP3 consoles, messaging status, maps and other "travel documents". And "car hacks" to reprogram the engine computer for performance, economy, or just a throatier roar will probably worm their way through the community's hard drives.

That USB connection will start to converge the two devices. Our desktops already need to work more like dashboards, helping us keep moving rather than representing an anchor we carry with us. And various navigation/entertainment features for the passenger riding shotgun (or the backseat driver, or the insane multitasking driver) will require the flexibility and complexity of a desktop environment.

In the future, Americans will never leave our cars. We'll drive them up into our offices, whether mobile, temporary or just at the mall. We'll keep the same immersive "computing" environment whether at the wheel or at the word processor. The USB connection is the spark jumping the gap. Let the good times roll.

Re:Mobile Computing

[Johnboi Waltune]

Ask and you shall receive.

The laptop for the Hummer(tm) lifestyle

No, it's not a joke.

Re:Mobile Computing

[Doc Ruby]

For better or worse, car designs like the ergoantinomic Hummer will influence computers. And vice versa - that's why I'm posting this to Slashdot, and not crossposting to _Popular Mechanics_. Though maybe I should send it to _Hotrodder_...

Re:Mobile Computing

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

and as the two blur together, the "Universal Serial Bus" will become known as the "Volkswagen Bus". Connectors will come with flowers painted on the side.

Apologies...

Re:Mobile Computing

[Doc Ruby]

VWB: the People's Bus

FarfeGNUgen 2.0

Re:Mobile Computing

[Gubbe]

> In the future, Americans will never leave our cars.

Look, I don't want to sound too critical of your premonition, but I think I speak for all of us europeans when I say that we don't really want americans in our cars, particularly so if they refuse to leave when asked nicely.

Re:Mobile Computing

[Doc Ruby]

:). I'm hoping the same premonition can't be said by us Americans about you Europeans and our bicycles.

It's because of the USB drive, yes

[Gadgetfreak]

The best idea is that you use the stereo to control the music, not the portable player itself. I've been waiting for this for a LONG time. For several years, car stereos have decoded MP3s off of recordable CDs, but nothing would accept the convenience of the USB drive.

Personally, I don't own an iPod. I have a cheap Panasonic cd player that'll do MP3s, and has an am/fm radio for those times I'm not at home, work, or in my car. I'd almost never need a portable player. I bring music with me on my USB drive and play it at work. For $60 I can bring 1 GB of music, and play it on any computer, keep it in my pocket, and not worry about breaking it or someone stealing it.

I like this idea a lot. And USB will be ubiquitous and popular for at least as long as the car would be expected to last.

Re:It's because of the USB drive, yes

[B3ryllium]

I've been looking for a USB stereo to put in my Stratus - I saw one from Pyle, one from 'Boss Audio', and one from JVC that might be build on some sort of Boss Audio reference platform.

I think the remote control would be my favourite part, but honestly I'd *LOVE* to have aftermarket steering wheel controls, if they exist.

Re:It's because of the USB drive, yes

[insignificant1]

Mod parent up; this is not due to 'digital transfer' or quality in that sense (which is BS anyway), as higher-rated speculators have suggested. I agree: it is so that the user has a good interface for the car... which is the car's stereo. This is a 'keep your eyes on the road' type of thing; NOT an analog-vs-digital thing. There are portable players that are very difficult to use without really deliberately looking at them.

Fast Lane

[Doc Ruby]

I already plug my Treo's stereo headset jack into my Kenwood car stereo's AUX inputs. I don't have a control cable to fake the stereo into working the Treo like it's an in-trunk CD changer. But instead I have the Treo on the dash, using its controls. Playing music off the 1GB SDIO card, or over a Shoutcast stream (like from my collecion at home, over my cablemodem to 3G). This USB connection will be a better integration, especially if I can plug better controls on my steering wheel into it to control everything. What it really needs is a projected display into the windshield. That will really improve my weaving and speeding on the road, as that "driving music" takes center stage ;).

VW Goes USB

[PCWizardsinc]

As a Prius owner, I for one am very glad that computers have made their way to the dash. I love the GPS and Console control of the Climate, Stereo, and of Course the connection to my phone through BlueTooth!

What about Skoda?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Skoda get this too? Remember VW is Skoda's parent company...

The difference is in the efficiency

[Colin Smith]

About 10% for your standard internal combustion engine as used in a conventional car in todays traffic conditions.

Compared to around 35% for an old conventional coal power station or 55% for a more modern coal gasifier power station or even 85% for a coal gasifier which sells it's "waste" heat as well.

Almost 1/5 the pollution per mile traveled doing it one way rather than the others.

Great - one more thing

[Anonymous Coward]

that will get in my way of yanking the crappy factory head unit and ilk out before I can put my high end Alpine hardware in.

How about information about your car's health?

[MindPrison]

This information could save your life.

I'm not sure it has been done already, I simply don't know. But personally I think the stuff about Mp3's etc...are just dillydally which is fun to have but a far more useful function would be to implement some sort of one-way communication with the car such as making the car create you a "WARNING".TXT document telling you:

You're low on oil levels, if you keep ignoring the low-warning you could (insert possible scenarios here) etc, please maintain now!

It could also contain information about the local workshops and telephone numbers - so you could get in touch and have your car serviced immedately...not using that age old excuse...I'm too busy to look for a service-tech phone number..

I can easily forsee useful functions here, imagine a bluetooth enabled cell phone and your car have been given access to the messaging part....it could remind you what state your car is in etc.

I'm not kidding - this could potentially save your life.

Re:How about information about your car's health?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a oil pressure gauge and a check engine light. That coolant temp gauge helps, too.

I don't see why anyone would need a computer to tell them to change their frickin' oil.

Re:How about information about your car's health?

[MindPrison]

Thanks, I'm not always aware of the international Terms being from another country and all ;).

But seriously...that's only half the story... Imagine if it could report on the state of the brakes (time to replace...etc?) and much more, it would really contribute to safety.

Unfortunately there are quite a lot of drivers who either forget or ignore to change their oil (and much more) - these are not only a danger to themselves but also to others. I dont think they do this on purpose as most people are decent enough... it's just various things in our lives that makes us "forget" the stuff that seem less interesting or less important at the moment, that might be much more important than the average joe is avare of.

Re:How about information about your car's health?

[King_TJ]

I agree. There's actually a lot of useful info one can obtain from the OBDII port found on 1996 and later vehicles, but you need the proper cable and connector, plus software for a PDA or laptop computer to interpret it for you.

(www.obdscan.net has a few good products for the purpose)

But even that won't tell you things like the condition of your brakes or oil levels...

Brakes, in particular, I find very frustrating. On my last vehicle, a '99 Ford Ranger truck - I took it in several times to have the brakes checked. (It started squealing or squeaking when I stopped - so I thought it might be due for new pads.) Each time, I was told "Nope, you've got over 50% wear left... No worries!" Then, next thing I know, it's in for inspection and I'm told my pads are worn and the rotors are damaged too. Grr... That's exactly why I wanted to catch it before it got that bad!

But I've learned you can't really count on hearing the squealing to determine when the pads are down to the "wear indicators" - because modern pads tend to squeal or squeak a lot anyway.

Re:How about information about your car's health?

[Mechcozmo]

Isn't that what the "Oil" light is for on the dashboard? That will be just one more thing for people to ignore. Some cars have "Engine Oil life %" displays that warn you when it falls below a certain %.

Re:How about information about your car's health?

[cr0sh]

Fortunately, rotors on a Ranger are a cheap item (if you do it yourself - no, not cheaper than simply changing the pads, but not expensive, either). Yeah - modern brake pads squeak, not much can be done about it (apply more pad squeal "grease", I guess).I just check my pads every six months or so, and when they get to about 1/4" wear or less, I replace them (cheap enough to do). I try to do all the work I can on my vehicles myself - otherwise I have learned you can get shafted bad. Anything beyond a certain level of my experience (or in some cases, hassle or tool availability), I take it to a shop I have had good work at done before. The basics, though, I take of myself, and I check my vehicle periodically otherwise (I once recently found a bubble on the sidewall of one of my tires when I did my daily "tire check" before leaving for work - got a free tire from the dealer on that one).

Re:The REAL Bad News is... you're buying a VW

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Jettas are pretty bad cars.

I want a TDI but the Beetle and the Jettas aren't that great of a car. No one else seems to be making affordable diesel car, some report 50MPG with a TDI Beetle. You can get more efficient cars in Europe and Asia but they are a lot smaller and entail a lot more sacrifices for IMO marginal increases.

I don't think we can get away from petrol autos for a good while, but we can get more efficient ones, diesel is most often petroleum based but it has a more efficient combustion cycle and puts out less CO2. The biggest downside is particulates, but that form of pollution washes out the air with rain.

Open Source Vehicles

[davek]

When I first read the headline, I thought that VW had become the first carmaker to provide an easilly accessable interface into the engine's computer. Then I read that it was so you could "plug in your MP3 player." Idiots.

When will people realize that cars, like computers, work better when open. Expose these meaningless details of how the computer controls the car, and you'll see a revitilization in small business auto repair, no longer requiring car owners to flee to crooked dealerships to get their car fixed.

-dave

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[DebianDog]

True... Programs like this help you with important stuff, like disabling the 'Service Engine' light after you add headers and rip out your catalytic converters. Your way of saying, "Sure that O2 sensor is running fine, good PCM"

For off-road only use of course ;)

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[billjank]

There was, once, a time when cars did run open. Things like carborators, manual transmissions, non-ABS brakes, distributors, etc.

The difference between then and now is that these "open" systems required tweaking and tuning every few weeks or months to maintain proper operation, as opposed to newer "closed" cars, which for all practical purposes could be run for years (oil changes possibly excepted) without needing to look under the hood.

They may have been easier to repair, but it's a far stretch to say they "worked better".

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[GauteL]

The motor industry does not want a revitilisation of small business auto repair. They have vigilantly fought the new laws in the EU that disallows the voiding of warranty just because you didn't use a brand name shop.

They have been happy with the cushy income of the licensing scheme for brand name shops and using closed interfaces and advanced computer systems has the glorious side effect of locking in customers.

While I agree with you that it would be much better for the consumer if they opened up, they will never take this route, and it is certainly not because they are idiots.

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[RexRhino]

There are legal restrictions on this.

For example, the electronics in your car are set to make sure your car maintains a certain amount of fuel efficency or emissions.

If you were allowed to tweak the values in those electronics, you might choose better performance over fuel efficency and low emissions.

So long as things like fuel efficency, emissions, etc. are regulated by the government, there is no way a car company is ever going to willingly let you mess with your engine settings. They could get into a lot of trouble if a download from the internet could allow people to radicly alter those things from what is listen on the sticker when you purchase the car.

Government control and individual choice are not compatible.

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[Chris Hiner]

On a VW, you can tweak the same values the dealership can with a VAG-COM.
You can seriously break things if you don't know what you're doing...

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[KillShill]

then you bust them but to make some ignorant and deceptive excuse as to why you don't want people to modify their own property... that's the domain of shills and RIAA/MPAA marketing.

if it's your property, do with it as you please. but if your modification harms society or other people, except a big something to invade your sunless features.

modifying one's property almost never involves harming others, but when it does then the law can act.

sounds like the way console manufacturers prevent "piracy" under the guise of locking you out of your own hardware. in that case, no harm can even remotely fall on anyone else. games can be made to only play if they are genuine and it can be accomplished without locking you out of your property.

same thing with cars and other products.

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[KillShill]

yeah, it's cause they are ****suckers.

so i do agree with you.

being smart in this case, means being immoral and unethical.

yeah, owning one's property and having full access is good for "consumers"... go figure.

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats bull. One can go online and find a variety of aftermarket replacement ROM chips for varieties of cars to get better performance/timings/etc.

The reason why the shit isn't open is becuase it makes sure you either buy pricey diagnostic equipment from them or keep taking your car back to the dealer for repairs.

Re:Open Source Vehicles

[Anonymous Coward]

False analogy. Being open has nothing to do with being a non-regulated system.

The reason why its closed is to maintain a source of revenue after you buy a car. If you could just pop in a USB cable into your laptop to download trouble codes or get data from the car's systems, what point would there be of taking the car to the dealer and having him tell me what the problem is (at a cost) and then trying to make me buy expensive parts and get expensive repairs.

Re:The REAL Bad News is... you're buying a VW

[NaruVonWilkins]

'91 Dodge Ram. Glove compartment latch fell off. It's not as if these aren't problems that are common to all cars. The only vehicle I've owned for any length of time without finding a problem with it is my Cannondale.

About time

[teslatug]

I've been raving for something simple like this for a long time. Hopefully the other manufacturers get hit by the same cluebat.

Just get an mp3-dvd player and dvd burner.

[seramar]

It's still cheaper. And I don't see the sense in walking everywhere with music blaring out the ambience of reality. I mean, seriously... what if an elephant sneaks up behind me?

I've had usb in my car since 2001

[bergeron76]

Or somewhereabouts there.

http://www.dashpc.com

It's been seen on here before, but since it's relevant, I'll post it again.

Possible Downsides

[UserChrisCanter4]

I've been using an Alpine in-dash stereo with the KCA-420i iPod adapter for about a year now. VW's choice certainly has some upsides (supports a wider range of devices, even a USB HDD, I assume), but there are going to be some downsides here.

1) The mention that this deck looks for six folders indicates that it will be more complicated than the Alpine system (which supports any and all folder on an iPod). This will complicate synching for users who aren't used to devices with manual file copying.

2) The KCA-420i system works like the iPod dock. All audio decoding is handled in the iPod, which means the Alpine system will play anything your iPod can play. The VW system uses specially named folders and interfaces through USB, which indicates that decoding is handled in the deck. WMA/AAC/LAC/WAV/etc. files probably won't be playable. That's a bad situation. Additionally, iTunes Music Store/Napster/Rhapsody files will probably not be playable. Yes, DRM sucks, but people do use these services and that's going to be a major irritating factor for them.

3) Can USB deliver enough voltage to charge these players while they're playing? I know the iPod can't be charged over USB while playing, and I suspect that's the same situation for most of these devices. One of the nicest parts of Alpine's system is that, because the iPod was designed around firewire originally, it can effectively keep the iPod playing indefinitely.

4) Cost. The VW device costs $250. It interfaces to (I assume) either the factory stereo or the "premium" audio system. I paid $190 for my Alpine deck and $100 for the iPod adapter. That deck is a lot nicer than any base-model VW stereo is going to be, and the system works a lot better. Assuming we start talking about paying extra for the upgrade system, the Alpine's advantage only increases.

I understand that the iPod isn't the only player out there, but it is far and away the best-selling music player, period. The Alpine system could definitely use some improvement, but it's still the best setup available. This is a step in the right direction for VW, but it's definitely flawed compared to what already exists on the market.

Re:Possible Downsides

[Anonymous Coward]

Your downside #3 only effects iPod lower than the 4th Generation. From the 4th onward you can charge with usb .

Re:Possible Downsides

[UserChrisCanter4]

Yes, you can charge with USB, but not while playing the device. USB simply doesn't push enough amps, and while it will trickle charge if you turn it off and plug it into a USB port, it will not charge quickly enough to offset the loss of power during playback.

Well crap.

[patcoll]

I was actually in the beginning stages of patenting this idea. Looks like you can never come up with good ideas fast enough nowadays.

Back to the drawing board!

Splendid

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt all the microprocessors they use are air cooled.

Re:Splendid

[Anonymous Coward]

No doubt all the microprocessors they use are air cooled.

H20? Nein danke!

Stereo

[Tekoneiric]

Awhile back I needed to replace my stereo in my CRX. I looked everwhere for one that just had a radio, audio input and USB port for memory drives but couldn't find one. I really don't need a CD drive in the car. Juggling CDs and having to take them out of the car because of the Texas heat is really a pain. Not to mention having to burn music to them.

Anyone know of a car stereo like this?

Re:Stereo

[brendank310]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7045 388&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat526000500 07&id=1099396976753 i think thats what your looking for. it does cd's, but the usb port is convenient enough.

The REAL Bad News is...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I didn't save any money by switching to Gaico for my car insurance.

fucking lizard.

USB?

[timeOday]

Why not WiFi instead? What I'd like to have is a desktop application allowing me to select the music on my hard drive. Anything I select automatically gets syncronized with the car whever it comes within range.

Am I understanding this?

[tetranz]

When they say it works with 'portable digital players', the device doesn't have to be an audio player at all. What it really needs is a standard USB memory device which most players just happen to also be. Right?

exactly!

[nxs212]

Bluetooth (A2DP) would be the way to go and in fact VW's other brand, Audi, offers it.
I have a Motorola cell phone w/ 2GB sd memory card but will have to either another head unit that will support it or get an adaptor that will go into the currently unused tape slot. (for bt a2dp)
I guess there are going for the lowest common denominator - USB - since everyone has it on their pc AND allow charging of the ipod using the same cable. ...I would hate to go on a long trip in my car w/ ipod full of music just to have the batteries die 30 mins into the trip.

Buy a VW, get screwed - POS!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if you guys do your research before buying a car, but I sure did. And I still got screwed. I read CR, carpoint, edmunds, etc.

I have a 98 New Beetle, and a 99 Passat GLS.
Thus I have about 12 VW years total of late model VW ownership.
Man, how I regret buying these turd cars.
Total, I've probably have about a stack of 30+ Service Order forms in my files.

That's how many times these cars have crapped out on us. From melted fuseboxes, seized A/C compressors, power windows that are stuck down (regulator failure), power door locks that dont lock, leaking power steering, premature worn tie rods. I could go on for another 20.

Even my mechanic (who is really good at knowing what fails, from everyone else, calls it VW Planned Obsolescence). He says that VWOA keeps class action away by lowering parts prices on faulty components, so as to discourage action.

I've tried calling VWOA for help, they just don't care.

Everytime I run into someone with a late model VW, I ask them how they like it, and guess what's the first thing they say?

I have owned Toyotas, Nissans, Ford, Chrysler, and never in my life seen so much problems in a car.

Some tell me 'maybe you just got a lemon...well...maybe, two lemons, then?'

I'm sure it doesn't help when they have plants in Mexico, that strike 3x in 1 year. What's the incentive of those workers to put out a good vehicle. After all, they must LOVE management, to strike so much.

To give the cars benefit, they do have cool features (when they're working), they have good security (avoid getting broken in/stolen), and the crash test results are very good.
But these are assumptions as I've never gotten them broken in, or been in a crash.

I bought them because Consumer Reports Annual Car guide that comes out in April, said 'Best Pick.'
Hah!

So I'm just giving you a heads up.
Don't believe me, just do a google, for 'VW sucks' or similar, and you'll see...
there's even a www.vwsucks.com site, which i wanted to create, but he beat me to it.

Look at the JD Power 1994 vehicle dependability and Lexus is at the top, and VW is 2nd to the bottom. The only car more unreliable than a VW is a Hummer.

I believe about a year ago, David Letterman even had a top ten list one night, about how bad VW sucks, I was shocked when I saw that on such a major show.

So if you don't mind having a sexy car, that the dashboard 'engine check light' will come on every month, when you just came back from a service appointment a month ago (we probably drove with the check light on for over 50% of the miles on the car - i'm surprised the check light bulb didn't burn out by now), then by all means, go get yourself a sexy new VW. Just remember, I told you so.

We're selling our Passat now, before it totally dies, but we feel guilty passing it on, so we'll probably discount it, and tell them to make sure they really want it. We bought a Lexus, as we're tired of dropping off our car to the repair shop, and taking the bus to work so often.
We'll see how the Lexus goes...

good luck and take care.

Re:Buy a VW, get screwed - POS!

[gonk]

Everytime I run into someone with a late model VW, I ask them how they like it, and guess what's the first thing they say?

"Love it!"

Not trying to say that you haven't had problems, but not everyone has them. I haven't owned anything but VWs and they've never given me any real trouble, which is one reason I keep coming back.

My current Jetta, a 2003 GLI, has had two problems: a wiper relay died, and the brake light switch died. I guess I could complain, but on a system as complex as a car, failures are going to happen, and those seem rather minor to me. 40K miles.

My last car as a '98 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition. I can't remember ever having a problem with it. Sold it after someone ran into me; didn't total the car, but I wanted the new GLI. 120K miles at time of sale; who knows how many now, but I still see it on the road around town.

The car before that was an '88 Jetta GLI that I bought used while working at a VW shop. The owner's daughter didn't appreciate it and he didn't need it, so I got it cheap. I gave it a tuneup and replaced the steering rack, and between myself and friends who passed it around after I was done with it, put about 250K miles on it trouble-free.

Before that, an '84 Scirroco. A bit underpowered, I guess, but a nice car. It had some electrical problems and fifth gear broke due to lack of oil (common problem on these). I guess a new tranny is a major problem, but I believe that was caused by improper maintenance.

Those are just the water cooled cars. I've owned a few of the aircoolers, as well, and still own a '66 Bug.

robert

Yeah nice but...

[Dava]

- when will they integrate bluetooth in the cars?

Local Walmart (GA, USA) has one car receiver...

[Anonymous Coward]

that has a USB connector for a flash drive. The receiver can play MP3 from CD or flash drive. Couldn't find it online, cost is $99 with 4 speakers.

Don't be so cocky.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must've missed where buffer overflows in things like image handling (double free bugs & the like in zlib) caused problems with PNG handling.

There is NOTHING preventing there from being a buffer overflow in an mp3 codec, and therefore NOTHING preventing any data files fed to any program from carrying some form of virus or executable, save only for safe coding habits. Assuming we don't discover more long-hidden bugs in old libraries like those format string errors and such...

Don't get me wrong, I used to scoff at the notion, too. I still remember how shocked I was when IE was new and I couldn't believe that a malicious web page could format your hard drive (we had one fellow so obnoxious we considered creating so malicious an exploit page just for him, but we were more ethical than that) ... Quite the eye opener, but one I've done well not to forget.

Now, I don't think they're *likely* to have one, but there's nothing that makes them automagically immune to the mere possibility of them.

USB support only for music?

[CjKing2k]

You mean I can't drive with my Logitech RumblePad? Too bad.

I can see it now...

[b5turbo]

..the RIAA starting to sue car owners and companies for DMCA violations, especially if a p2p car application is developed, letting you share the music with your fellow motorists while stuck in traffic. Start suing the 75 year old granny behind the wheel.

CarPC/Carputer Hell Yeah

[noc007]

I keep saying I'm going to do it, but just not the money yet. Cheers. -Fuzzball ;)

Is It Even Coming to the US?

[noc007]

Very good points. In addition to what is stated above, my question is it even coming to the US. The trend that I've seen with Volkswagen of America (VWoA) is the slow release of products that are available in the European market to the US market. The Mark V Jetta was a fluke, however we had to beg and plead just to get the R32 here. Other items include NAV and HID lights that have been available in Euro market for a while, but are just now being released to the US market.

USB on new VW

[Popcorn Dave]

Actually my Touareg has a spot to plug in an external device on the radio, but you have to mod the cupholder to plug in your MP3 player. It's fully documented on the web and the fellow sells the kit for about $20.

I'd love it if VW would retrofit something that *would* allow me to run my MP3 player *and* show title and artist info. But the way that they do RDS now really sucks. I can't understand why they can't do that as scrolling text rather than blocks of text. Hell I can do scrolling text in JavaScript...

Bluetooth

[Joce640k]

Isn't this sort of thing what Bluetooth is supposed to be for?

I guess the problem is in the iPod - no bluetooth output.

Or maybe the problem is with the RIAA which would send the paramilitary types round to, er, "suppress" Apple if they ever dared to broadcast music over the airwaves.