Miyazaki Talks to the Guardian

BrainGeyser writes to tell us The Guardian is running an interesting summary of an interview with Hayao Miyazaki, proclaimed 'God' of anime. In the interview Miyazaki discusses a wide range of issues from his distribution deal with Disney to the future of anime. From the article: 'There is a rumor that when Harvey Weinstein was charged with handling the US release of Princess Mononoke, Miyazaki sent him a samurai sword in the post. Attached to the blade was a stark message: "No cuts."' While it was actually Miyazaki's producer, Miyazaki did 'go to New York to meet this man, this Harvey Weinstein, and [..] was bombarded with this aggressive attack, all these demands for cuts. He [Miyazaki] smiles. "I defeated him."'

Comments

Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[duckpoopy]

Disney. John Lasseter could learn a few things about creativity from this man.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[king-manic]

Disney. John Lasseter could learn a few things about creativity from this man.

Disney isn't worthy to learn anything from anyone. They have been a animation sweatshop from day one and old walt was a scrooge.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, sometimes you need to read the subject, too. I think the grandparent agrees with you that Disney ain't all that.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Trurl's Machine]

John Lasseter could learn a few things about creativity from this man.

What makes you think he doesn't? Check this article:

Lasseter noted: "Miyazaki is one of the greatest filmmakers of our time and he has been a tremendous inspiration to generations of animators. At Pixar, when we have a problem and we can't seem to solve it, we often look at one of his films in our screening room. Toy Story owes a huge debt of gratitude to the films of Mr. Miyazaki.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

Everybody who makes movies -- or does anything creative -- could learn a few things from this man.

It's been a couple years since I saw Spirited Away, and I still chuckle if anything reminds me of a scene from it. Can't say the same for any Pixar movie. They only make me thing of trite cuteness and over-the-top voice actors hired for their name, not their talent.

The "no cuts" story is interesting. Had no idea Miyazaki was such a tough S.O.B. But I guess that goes with being a great filmmaker.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

Right you are. I was a Disney addict when I was a kid, but as soon as I grew up I realized that Walt and all his heirs are evil. What put me over the edge was seeing Fantasia and realizing that he'd neutered all the satyrs!

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Trurl's Machine]

Had no idea Miyazaki was such a tough S.O.B.

You should definitely read his description in the words of Mamoru Oshii of the "Ghost In The Shell" fame:

My first impression was that he was a really light hearted person. But when the conversation got heated, he was really merciless, and I was told many harsh things. -laughs- So it ended with the impression like "what a SOB!"

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[NitsujTPU]

Fantasia would have been better if the Satyrs had genitalia?

That seems like a kind of nit-picky point.

Plenty of points to pick at... you chose that a childrens movie produced in the 60's or 70's didn't have full-frontal nudity.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Senjutsu]

The "no cuts" story is interesting. Had no idea Miyazaki was such a tough S.O.B. But I guess that goes with being a great filmmaker.

It stems from a 1980's North American release of Nausicaa that had been licensed by some fly-by-night American company. Re-titled "Warriors of the Wind", it was severely cut (running less than 66% of the original's time), utterly incomprehensible, and a total disaster. Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli were so pissed off that they asked fans to forget the existence of the film and adopted a strict "no edits" clause for any future foreign licensing deals.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[moviepig.com]

John Lasseter could learn a few things about creativity from this man.

Re the vice-versa, it's interesting to speculate if and when Miyazaki will do something in CGI. (If I'm not mistaken, Howl's Moving Castle used a few automated techniques that contrasted visibly with his usual low-frame-rate hand drawings.)

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

Fantasia wasn't meant to be a kiddie movie -- though, like all Disney movies, that's what it ended up being. It was Disney's attempt to show that he had culture: telling classic storie with classical music performed by a big-name symphony orchestra.

Now of course if you dramatize the Greek Myths, there are details a modern audience isn't going to accept. Naturally, you can't show these details. But you have to be true to the spirit of the story you're trying to tell. If there are parts of the story you can't tell honestly, you shouldn't tell them at all.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Jason Earl]

Right you are. I was a Disney addict when I was a kid, but as soon as I grew up I realized that Walt and all his heirs are evil. What put me over the edge was seeing Fantasia and realizing that he'd neutered all the satyrs!

You probably wonder why mainstream media doesn't seem to cater to your tastes. Here's a little clue, only lunatics want their children's movies with visible genitalia. Please go get yourself some counseling--preferrably somewhere far away from my children.

Thank you.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

Yeah, that would piss me off too. But even if that had never happened. Miyasaki was wise to not letter Disney mess with his stories.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[king-manic]

You probably wonder why mainstream media doesn't seem to cater to your tastes. Here's a little clue, only lunatics want their children's movies with visible genitalia. Please go get yourself some counseling--preferrably somewhere far away from my children.

Only americans don't want things to have genetals. The asians and europeans are fine with genetals. Many kid oreinted shows show male genetalia in those cultures because there isn't the same conservative taboo against sex. IT's a part of life get oevr it. You little boy/girl is away they have genetals.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[king-manic]

Fantasia would have been better if the Satyrs had genitalia?

That seems like a kind of nit-picky point.

Plenty of points to pick at... you chose that a childrens movie produced in the 60's or 70's didn't have full-frontal nudity.

HEres a better point. Disney has made animation onyl for kids. Disney has presented a neutered view of fairy tales and the world aroudn us. Disney is a souless corporation seeking to pay artists as little as possible for their talents as well as a IP tyrant. They claim IP to works that are Public domain. Things liek cinderella, sleepign beuaty ect.. I wouldn't be suprised that they would try and stifle any one else from staging an animated "huntch back of notre dame".

They started as an animation sweatshop. Hiring immigrant worked to do their animation, and they did so in some pretty poor conditions.

I know your not disagreeign with me, but I thought perhaps those are more valid arguements to not like disney.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Ziviyr]

Disney still modifies the films, they make the characters yappier.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[badasscat]

Re the vice-versa, it's interesting to speculate if and when Miyazaki will do something in CGI.

Miyazaki has been using CGI since at least Mononoke Hime, if not before. He just doesn't go overboard with it, and he uses it in a way such that it's not noticeable unless you're specifically looking for it.

Again, something I think Hollywood could learn from. Even in live-action films, CGI effects have taken on a life of their own. It used to be that special effects were used to make something look real that otherwise couldn't be done. Nowadays, CGI effects are used for the sake of the effect - there's not even any intent to make something look real, the intent is instead to draw attention to the effect.

In animation, the idea has always been to make something beautiful but to use the animation to tell a story. The visuals are subservient; the better they look, the better for the film, but the whole reason the visuals exist is to help tell a story. Once the visuals start distracting from that story, and people start paying attention more to the look of a film than the story it's telling, then the film is a failure. Miyazaki is one of the few remaining animation directors that seem to understand that animation is no different than live action in this regard - that film, including animation, is a medium for telling stories. It is not a CGI showcase. (Hollywood seems to have forgotten this fact in live-action films lately too.)

This is the way I feel about at least some of Pixar's films. I saw Toy Story and I just didn't get it. The comedy was way over-broad in that bad TV sitcom sort of way, and it seemed to me that the only real unique thing about the film was its all-CGI visuals. Most of the reviews I saw at the time spent a lot of time talking about the visuals and very little talking about the story, except for the comedy, which I just didn't even think was very funny.

(There are Pixar films I think are pretty good - I liked Finding Nemo, for example - but in general they just spend way too much time worrying about the technical aspects of their films and not nearly enough on telling a good story.)

But there have been CGI scenes in at least the last several of Miyazaki's films, when he's wanted to do something that couldn't be done by traditional hand-drawn techniques. He just doesn't believe in doing things for the sake of doing it, he believes in doing what needs to be done to tell the story he wants to tell. Miyazaki's films are great because he first of treats them as films and not simply as "anime" (or "animation", which is all that word means in Japan), and second of all because he understands what filmmaking is really all about.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

No shit! That's why I always watch the DVDs in Japanese with subtitles.

That was one thing that suprised me about the Miyazaki interview -- him professing that the English soundtracks were perfectly fine. Perhaps he doesn't speak enough English to realize how much crap Disney adds.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember seeing Lasseter at the SF film festival giving open praise to Miyazaki and likening himself to a samurai trying to protect Ghibli properties from Disney.

Any criticism of Lasseter in this sense is totally wrong headed imo.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[jandrese]

Fantasia isn't a childrens movie! Heck, I've yet to meet a kid that doesn't find it boring. Unfortunatly, just because it was animated people assume it is aimed at kids.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[moviepig.com]

...there have been CGI scenes in at least the last several of Miyazaki's films, [but only] when he's wanted to do something that couldn't be done by traditional hand-drawn techniques.

One could even theorize that a deliberate rejection of "perfection" is further evidenced in the continued jerkiness of his 6-frames/second(?) animation... even though he could now probably afford denser 'tweening'. (For a pronounced usage of roughness for effect, see/remember the Xmas short The Snowman ...and the numerous tv commercials that copied it.)

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[delirium_9]

They are just as yappy in Japanese. Sad fact.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[fm6]

Well, I don't speak Japanese. But I notice a lot of places in the Disney version where they've added dialogue that obviously wasn't in the original. And painfully cute dialog too.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Incadenza]

Nowadays, CGI effects are used for the sake of the effect - there's not even any intent to make something look real, the intent is instead to draw attention to the effect.

Just like hard-core cheapies, movies like 'Terminator 2' and 'Jurassic Park' aren't really 'movies' in the standard sense at all. What they really are is half a dozen or so isolated, spectacular scenes -- scenes comprising maybe twenty or thirty minutes of riveting, sensuous payoff -- strung together via another sixty to ninety minutes of flat, dead, and often hilariously insipid narrative.

David Foster Wallace, F/X Porn.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[MenTaLguY]

According to a different interview I read, he doesn't _personally_ review the dubs; apparently his policy of not watching films after he's completed them extends to translations/etc too.

Which is unfortunate. :/

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[cybpunks3]

I don't know why you say that.

You see a lot of panty shots in anime or shots of girls in the shower, but in Japan all genitals are blacked out/fuzzed out/pixellated out.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[jcr]

flat, dead, and often hilariously insipid narrative.

Insipid? What? How can you possibly fail to enjoy Jeff Goldblum babbling about Chaos theory, and little girls saying "this is unix, I know this" as a shout-out to the geeks in the crowd?

-jcr

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[AnotherBrian]

Here's a review of Pom Poko, an interesting little disney movie. Found on fark under the headline "Couple watching Disney DVD surprised to discover it contained 100 percent more raccoon testicles than previous Disney films" http://www.comingsoon.net/news/dvdreviewsnews.php? id=10819

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[aichpvee]

Not to mention that Miyazaki and Lasseter go way back. Studio Ghibli even made a documentary them. Nausicaa.net describes it as a thank you gift for John Lasseter for his help with the North American release of Spirited Away that was later published at the request of the Studio Ghibli staff. Here's their synopsis.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand the how there are "no cuts" in the Disney releases. In Princess Mononoke, the english dubbed version is missing a few scenes.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[ultranova]

Fantasia isn't a childrens movie! Heck, I've yet to meet a kid that doesn't find it boring. Unfortunatly, just because it was animated people assume it is aimed at kids.

Just show them Akira and they should be freed from such assumptions. Or Magic Woman M or some episodes of Cool Devices and Cream Lemon or Ninja Scroll - I haven't seen Urotsukidoji myself, but I have heard it's pretty efficient for this kind of work too.

Milder cases might be persuaded by some choice episodes of Powerpuff Girls - the future shown in Speed Demon is not nice - or even Porco Rosso or Mononoke Hime - less of a shock therapy, more of a gentle persuasion.

Anyone care to add their cures for "cartoons are for kids" syndrome ?-)

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[myster0n]

In Dragonball (the first, when Goku is a little boy), you can see Goku's 'thingy' quite a few times. And it really adds to the story. It reminds people that he grew up in the wilderness, and has no notion of 'civilized' behaviour.
I don't know if it's also in the anime (but I thought so), and if it is, I don't know if they showed it in the US (I'm European), so please enlighten me.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[meringuoid]

Miyazaki's use of CGI is usually excellent and scarcely noticeable; the only place it didn't work was in the scene in Spirited Away where Haku and Sen are going along a path between two hedges with lots of flowers on either side - on their way to visit her parents. They seem to be in front of the scene there, and not in it, and that just broke the illusion for me.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[jandrese]

I prefer Grave of the Fireflies personally. Not only is it a powerful film, but it is also obviously not aimed at children (although strangely it was shown as a double feature with My Neighbor Totoro!) and won't make people think that all foreign animation is porn.

On the other hand it's hard to get people to sit through an entire showing of Grave of the Fireflies, it's just so relentlessly depressing.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[Savantissimo]

Fritz the Cat, of course.

Re:Miyazaki makes Pixar look like

[king-manic]

I don't know why you say that.

You see a lot of panty shots in anime or shots of girls in the shower, but in Japan all genitals are blacked out/fuzzed out/pixellated out.

Erect male genitalia and full shots of female genetalia are, however shots of children or unerect penises do occur. See for example dragon ball. Even breasts are displayed in childrens shows, see sailor moon. But it's often non-sexual. Handled often for comedy.

The REAL question is...

[Joe Random]

was it a Hattori Hanzo sword?

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

Jeez, don't even mention an artists like Miyazaki and a hack like Tarentino in the same breath!

Re:The REAL question is...

[drsquare]

After 'Spirited Away', I don't think that Miyazaki is really above comparison to anyone else, especially someone with a much better grasp of quality dialogue and plot.

Re:The REAL question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Myazaki's first movie was "Castle of Calgastrio", maybe it was Goemon's Zantetsuken.

Re:The REAL question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought he pawned it.

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

The "plot" in a Tarentino movie is a lot of people trying to kill each other. The "dialogue" is these people making lame witicisms between fight scenes. Compare away!

Re:The REAL question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, are a dork.

Re:The REAL question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

The next time you feel like bashing some random widely-acclaimed director, I suggest you choose one whose name you can spell, let alone one whose films you've actually seen.

Re:The REAL question is...

[ronocdh]

The "plot" in a Tarentino movie is a lot of people trying to kill each other. The "dialogue" is these people making lame witicisms between fight scenes. Compare away!

So... he's like Shakespeare? ;)

Re:The REAL question is...

[drsquare]

It's funny how such narrow-minded comments are modded up, when you know very well that if a similar comment was made about some anime, even if it was completely justified, it would be modded into oblivion.

Spirited Away didn't even have a plot. Just shows how pretentious people like this will buy anything as long as it's Japanese.

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

We can agree to disagree about the quality of QT's writing. But if you think his dialogue's anything like Shakespeare's, you need to learn to read all over again!

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

Dude, buy a dictionary. Somebody who bashes your favorite filmmaker isn't narrow minded. If you were to present actual arguments about the qualities of that filmmaker, and I just refused to hear them, then you could claim I'm narrow minded.

Your claim that Spirited Away doesn't have a plot isn't even worth comenting on.

Your assumptions are as stupid as everything else you say. People who like Miyazai don't necessarily like everything Japanese. I, for one, hate most Anime. Even the most thoughtful stuff, like Cowboy Bebop, bores me to tears, to say nothing of the mindless crap that most Japanese cartoon studios turn out. But Miyazaki is a class unto himself. He tells complex stories, creates a sense of place that outdoes even most live-action movies, and has a wonderful artistic eye.

By contrast Tarentino knows how to frame a shot, and I guess he's good with actors. But his stories are childish and not terribly logical. I guess his fight scenes must be impressive, because even directors I respect say they're good. But some us what more to movies than fight scene.

Bottom line: QT knows his audience, and has a talent of sorts, but creatively he's not even on the same planet as Miyazaki.

Re:The REAL question is...

[drsquare]

Throwing a load of monsters and ghosts onto the screen and drawing it all really badly isn't creativity.

Re:The REAL question is...

[Gorath99]

I suspect that part of the reason why you believe Miyazaki to be more creative than Tarantino is that you are more familiar with the source material that the former draws his inspiration from than the source material that the latter draws his inspiration from. That which is exotic often seems more creative than that in which we recognize familiar influences.

Also, Tarantino just tells different kinds of stories, that apparently aren't your cup of tea. (Which is perfectly fine.) Doesn't mean that he's not incredibly creative though. The simple fact that he's extremely successful creating movies that nobody else is making - often in genres and with actors that have fallen out of grace - should be proof enough of that. If it was easy, then half of Hollywood would be doing it.

But, like I said, if you don't like his movies, that's perfectly fine. As long as enough people do for him to continue making movies, I'll be happy. Same goes for Miyazaki :-)

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

I suspect that part of the reason why you believe Miyazaki to be more creative than Tarantino is that you are more familiar with the source material that the former draws his inspiration from than the source material that the latter draws his inspiration from.

Exactly wrong. Miyazaki draws heavily on Asian mythology and Japanese culture, and I'm pretty ignorant about both. I often feel I'm only understanding maybe 20% of what he's trying to do. Fortunately, 20% of a Miyazaki movie is still a better time than almost anything I've seen lately.

By contrast, Tarentino constantly draws on pop culture standards that I'm all too familiar with -- old TV shows, cheap kung fu movies, and other stuff. And that's a big reason I so thoroughly dislike his work. Because he doesn't do anything interesting or original, he just quotes it endlessly, like a trekkie. The one that really bothered me was the way he kept using Quincy Jones's theme from Ironside (great musician, stupid TV show) in Kill Bill. No point to it that I could see — there were no parallels between the movie and the series, and music was painfully out of place where he used it. I guess he had some subtle point to make that went past me. Whatever it was, I find it hard to care!

Re:The REAL question is...

[fm6]

Why is it ... realistic comments get modded down?

Because your notion of "realistic" is stupid?

Renting

[zymano]

Which one of his movies should you rent ?

Re:Renting

[NoTheory]

Spirited Away. It's probably the friendliest for american audiences. (let the flaming begin!) My Neighbor Totoro is a classic fantastic for kids (and others of course!). The Princess Mononoke is better for kids who are a little older.

Re:Renting

[NoTheory]

I neglected to mention Laputa (aka "Castle in the Sky"), that one is also up there with Spirited Away imo.

you know you can find these all via IMDB.

Re:Renting

[bidule]

Mononoke first. Porco Rosso second. Then anything is good.

Spirited Away requires some understanding of bath houses and kami to fully enjoy. Totoro also happens in Japan, but the story is more universal.

Kiki is his most disneyesque work, good for introducing others.

Nausicaa, Laputa, I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Re:Renting

[i_should_be_working]

All of them. I haven't seen one that I didn't like yet. Though I haven't seen "Kiki's delivery service" yet which I heard wasn't as good. I'm sure it is though.

One great about his movies is that there is almost never the stereotypical bad guy that is just evil for no reason. Everyone is doing what they think the right thing is. Much closer to real life.

They are mostly for children though. If you'd rather get something more adult, Princess Mononoke is probably the one to get.

Re:Renting

[tdelaney]

Everyone's tastes differ. IMO Kiki is Miyazaki's best work. One of my co-workers thinks that Laputa is. Another votes for Totoro (which I put as #2, then Spirited Away). I don't rate Nausicaa as highly as the others, but that may be because the Nausicaa manga is my favourite, and the movie only covers a short portion of the manga (with significant changes).

But it's so hard to choose between them. All of the Miyazaki movies have IMO been very good to superb. I can't say the same for all Studio Ghibli work (The Cat Returns left me pretty cold) but Miyazaki's work - watch them all.

And whilst most of them are written with children in mind (this from the mouth of Miyazaki himself - not my opinion), all of them are immensely enjoyable by people of any age. The only one I probably wouldn't show to a child under 10 is Mononoke.

Re:Renting

[Donniedarkness]

I'd strongly recommend Spirited Away. While Princess Monoke was very good, Spirited Away was...well, simply marvelous!

Actually, I'd rent them both...

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

Spirited Away. It's probably the friendliest for american audiences.... The Princess Mononoke is better for kids who are a little older.

I'm not convinced that Spirited Away would really appeal to younger kids (under-7), personally. It's an outstanding animation; looks great, and has depth, but younger kids might have trouble understanding fully what's going on. Not to mention that the youngest might find some of it quite frightening (it got a 'PG' (Parental Guidance) rating in the UK, rather than the 'U' (Universal, suitable for all) that one might expect).

Re:Renting

[slashdotnickname]

While others will suggest the more popular ones, all great of course, I'd recomend "My Neighbors The Yamadas" as well. It might not have a polished look like the rest do, but it's a wonderful look into the dynamics of a modern Japanese family... with plenty of funny and tender moments too.

Re:Renting

[badasscat]

Spirited Away requires some understanding of bath houses and kami to fully enjoy.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised that someone else described that as the most western-friendly. To me, it's the one film that requires the most understanding of Japanese culture in general (not just bath houses and kami) to enjoy. You can still enjoy it without that understanding, but you won't really fully "get" it.

All of Miyazaki's films have an underlying theme or moral. I have yet to find an American who really understood what Spirited Away was saying on the first viewing... and I must admit the only reason I probably did was that I watched it first in Japan surrounded by Japanese speakers. (So I both had it explained to me - I didn't understand all the dialogue - and I got to hear the impressions of a lot of other people in the theater afterwards.) Most people in the west seem to describe it as a run-of-the-mill "coming of age" fantasy, which it most certainly is not.

So I wouldn't start with that one. I think it's actually kind of an advanced Miyazaki film - there's a lot of subtext, a lot of cultural specificity, and while the underlying theme is relatively simple (it's a film about gluttony and greed), it seems like the way it's presented is not all that easy for westerners to grasp.

Same is actually true of Nausicaa, which has a lot of Cold War stuff mixed in and that kind of gets lost in translation, and maybe even forgotten now that the cold war is over...

I do agree that Mononoke is a good place to start. It's pretty simple, but it doesn't seem simple as you're watching it. It's beautifully animated, it's still relevant, and the plot itself is pretty imaginative, though easy to follow. It's also not really culturally-specific - I mean there are a few things (like the little guys running around the forest, I can't even remember what they're called), but nothing that gets in the way of following the story or understanding the theme. And you can imagine a similar sort of plot set in the west at that time.

Kiki and Porco Rosso are good too, although they're a bit lighter and may give newcomers a bit of a skewed idea of what Miyazaki's really all about. Laputa I just didn't think held up all that well the last time I saw it; the animation is not his best, and the story doesn't flow as well as some of his later films.

Totoro might be the one of his films (well, other than Howl's Moving Castle) that I haven't seen, so I can't comment on it.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

oishii...

Re:Renting

[darklordyoda]

I'd have to recommend "Kaze no Tani no Nausicaa", which translates to "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind", and not "Warrior of the Wind", which is the American version, butchered by cuts.

I'd rate it as one of the best Miyazaki films, up there with Mononoke Hime and Totoro, and I'd rate the cut version as one of the worst, down there with Laputa (personal opinion).

Re:Renting

[boa13]

Though I haven't seen "Kiki's delivery service" yet which I heard wasn't as good. I'm sure it is though.

Kiki's excellent, too, but almost purely a coming of age movie. Early-teen stuff, no war, no epic, no magic... except for the magic of a beautiful, idealistic European town, the magic of nice people, the magic of life, the magic of music and excellent storytelling. Oh, and some broom flights, too.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on what you're in the mood for.

Grown-up Drama: Mononoke
All Ages: Totoro (great for kids, guilty pleasure for adults, my personal favorite)
Comedy: Porco Rosso
Coming of Age Drama: Kiki's Delivery Service

The rest are all good in their own ways, but have some shortcomings IMO. Haven't seen Howl's.

Re:Renting

[flyingsquid]

My favorite work of his is his series of _Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind_ graphic novels. The art is gorgeous, and the style is very different from other Japanese artists- Miyazaki's biggest influence is clearly Moebius.

There are four volumes, so it develops the world and story to a much greater depth than in the movie. It's Tolkienesque in scope, as much an exercise in world-building as storytelling. Miyazaki creates maps, kingdoms, technology, religions, and ecology for the world.

At the same time, his character development is excellent. As always his villains are the most interesting ones, and he's got a ton of them. They're also much more developed than in the movie. Princess Kushana switches sides halfway through, there's an immortal king suffering from ennui who is just fantastic, and then there's the God Warrior. The God Warrior is a mindless killing machine in the movie; but in the comics it is sentient... which makes it much more creepy, and Nausicaa's relationship with it is weirdly touching, but mostly disturbing.

There are some parts that come off as overly sentimental in the third volume- probably my least favorite- but it picks up again, strong, in the fourth. The fourth volume is as dark as Miyazaki gets. The ending... not happy, not unhappy. Complex. Again, that makes it one of his stronger works.

I'm not a huge fan of Japanese entertainment, but this is hands-down my favorite comic.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

that movie's delicious? That makes no sense....

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

Totoro is the only japanese movie I can watch without subtitles and still understand after 3 years of studying the language. much of the plot and ideas are conveyed through action and not words, though there are some themes which westerners would find uncomfortable (like the family bath scene). I'm pretty sure that most of the lore spun in that movie is not traditional Japanese myth, though it does have correlation. It's a fun movie that moves you..

Re:Renting

[dbIII]

haven't seen "Kiki's delivery service"

I saw that for the first time two days ago, and it is very good. It's less dramatic than the others and there are no bad guys, but it is very good for other reasons. It has a slowly developing storyline so could probably be watched in parts, and could be watched by all ages despite the fact that it does not portray a perfect world with perfect people. Most adults would probably enjoy it too.

I enjoyed Totoro the first time, but think the second time I saw it was a different more Disneyfied dub a few years later - I thought a major theme was that the girl was having to deal with her mother being diagnosed with terminal cancer - the desperate trip to see her mother in hospital makes less sense if she knew it was something trivial that would be OK in a couple of days like the second dub implied.

Nausica is very good, but what was done for the first english langauge release fully justifies the "no cuts or you can't have my movie" approach taken now.

Re:Renting

[caranha]

I would agree with those who posted that any of them are good. Spirited Away, indeed, might be a little strange for western audiences, but nothing impossible. His newest movie, Howl's Moving Castle (Hooru Ugoki Shiro) is nice too, and the first one based on a western history.

Another movie that I didn't see on the highest modded comments in this thread is "Lupan III: Castle Cagliostro", a movie of his pre-ghibli era. The animation is quite 80's, but the humor and pace are great.

Also, I wouldn't diss the "non Miyazaki" other Ghibli movies. He has a heavy hand on those too, so their quality is still way above your regular Big eyed anime. Specially "Whisper from the heart" and "Only yesterday"

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen Spirited Away, Monokoke and Laputa (Castle in the Sky). I would rate them in that order.

Princess Monokoke has a lot of violence - not suitable for young children.

Spirited Away in a masterpiece and will leave you breathless.

Re:Renting

[ArmorFiend]

What? Spirited Away had a unifying theme?! Great! What is it?

When I went to see SA, I'd successfully decoded the central allegories of Nausicaa and Mononoke. I especially liked the latter's mapping to survival-of-the-fittest darwinism versus the mercy and excesses of science and "progress".

So when I went to see SA I was constantly trying to lock-on to the allegory, and came up blank. The parents turning into pigs looked like a big clue, especially as it was mirrored by the all-consuming black demonic eater. But in the end I just threw up my hands and declared it "The Japanese 'The Wizard of Oz'" (without the silver-standard allegory, obviously!). So please, do explain!

Similarly, I couldn't grasp Howl's Moving Castle.

Re:Renting

[MajorB]

I always thought it was about racism. For the first half of the film, everybody mistreats Sen\Chihiro simply because she is different. As Chihiro's grows up and proves herself to these people, the characters begin to respect her for who she is and sees past what she is. Yubaba doesn't see this. She was so occupied with money and running her business that she failed to notice even when her son had been replaced.

The big clue is the scene on the train. As Chihiro rides, we see neon signs advertising businesses, services and corporations. We see the spiritual entities go about thier lives, and it dawns upon the audience that the only difference between these spirits and the humans is what they look like. Everything else is the same.

At least, that's what I got from it.

Re:Renting

[achurch]

Kiki's Delivery Service is just as good, though it has a different flavor than most of his other movies (as other posters mention below).

I do have to say, however, that I was disappointed by Howl's Moving Castle; perhaps it's just that I've come to expect a higher standard from Miyazaki, but it really didn't live up to what I was looking forward to. (Not that it was a bad movie--just not Miyazaki quality.) I've never read the book it was based on so I can't make comparisons, but my feeling is that he does better writing original stories.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally agree.

Girl enter strange world, girl experiences strange things, girl leaves strange world.

Not to trash your anime 'God' but SA didn't have a story.

Re:Renting

[Quattro Vezina]

Tonari no Totoro is the first Miyazaki film I saw, and it's still my favourite.

I also highly recommend Laputa: Castle in the Sky and Porco Rosso.

Actually, they're all damn good, but these three are my favourites.

Re:Renting

[NuShrike]

Complete works: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/films/.

I recommend:
Lupin III: Castle of Cagliostro (not usa-released yet?)
Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind (not usa-released yet?)
Laputa: The Castle in the Sky
My Neighbor Totoro
Kiki's Delivery Service
Grave of the Fireflies (hardcore war film)
Porco Rosso
Ocean Waves [TV movie] (aka, I Can Hear The Ocean) (not usa-released yet?)
Pom Poko (not usa-released yet?)
On Your Mark [music video] (not usa-released yet?)
Whisper of the Heart (not usa-released yet?)
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
The Cat Returns (not usa-released yet?)
Howl's Moving Castle (was just in theatres)

Consider renting from your local Anime club for the rare ones.

Re:Renting

[Deadguy2322]

My 5-year-old daughter loves that movie and understands it completely. The first time we watched it, she cried at the end because "it's just so beautiful." I guess it really depends on the kid in question. Her second-favorite is the subtitled Totoro, even thought she can't read the subtitles very well yet.

Re:Renting

[Deadguy2322]

Some corrections: Lupin III: Castle of Cagliostro - Released in North America by Manga as The Catlse of Cagliostro Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind - Released on DVD by Disney in North America Pom Poko - Released by Disney in North America, but not actually a Miyazaki film. The Cat Returns - Released by Disney in North america.

Re:Renting

[MilenCent]

My vote's for Kiki's Delivery Service, which works well in a magical-realistic kind of way. Porco Rosso was nifty too.

Hmmm... I just realized, all of Miyazaki's movies have that spirited, willful teenage girl in there somewhere. It even goes back to Castle of Cagliostro! (That was, for those playing along at home, a Lupin the 3rd movie.)

Which is not to imply any kind of Japanese-stereotypical pedophile association, mind you. If anything, his movies are pre-sexual, e.g., "For God's sake Alvy, even Freud spoke of a latency period!"

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

Substitute alegory for 'strange world' and re-watch the whole thing. The only strange thing about that world is how ordinary it is.

Re:Renting

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

) Most people in the west seem to describe it as a run-of-the-mill "coming of age" fantasy, which it most certainly is not.

I'm not sure if you're saying that it is not a "coming of age" fantasy, or if you're stating that it is more than just a "coming of age" fantasy. But i'll toss my pennies out there for you.

Spirited Away, blew me away. It certainly is a "coming of age" fantasy. I think you're reading into the gluttony and greed aspects have merit, but Spirited Away is most certainly about a little girl growing up.

It certainly is not so cut and dry though. The idea of "Growing up" presented in the film certainly encompasses a lot within the context of the film, and yes there is a subtext of "lets all grow up and not be greedy, and destroy the environment" etc.

But at the heart of the film its about a little brat that is detached from the world, a rather unhappy girl, affraid of what life has for her, and when thrust into life, the real world, the harsh and unyeilding world, she is forced to grow up. A once detached and depressed/selfish brat, discovers whats important in life, friends family, and certainly there is the deeper meaning of that we all will one day realize what is important to us, and perhaps we'll grow up. Gluttony and greed certainly being one of those things.

Miyazaki has said in the commentary that the idea came from a close family members little girl who seemed unhappy, and that this story was for her.

So there is most certainly a comming of age tale, and i do think it is the focus of the film.

But as we know Miyazaki is to brilliant of a man to tell a straight beginning to end story without weaving into it deeper symbolic things. He mentions on the commentary the common symbols eh's used in films (pigs) etc. He talks about the waste creature and how he got the idea from seeing junk in a river he had been to.

There most certainly is a hidden meaning about being greedy people and needing to grow up and recognize the conciquences of our actions, but the deeper meanings simply play into the overall tale of "coming of age"

So in a sense i very much agree with you, but it certainly is a beatiful story about a little girl growing up. The song that plays at the end is absolutely incredible and further drives home the coming of age theme.

But i would never say Spirited Away, was not meant to be a "coming of age" fantasy. It is exactly what it is. It just so happens that there is an adult comming of age message, as well as a child coming of age message within the film. The child's message being of course the focus.

But forgive me if i've mistaken your comments on the story. I just had to write. I love the film :)

Re:Renting

[leonbloy]

"Spirited away" is my favourite (it's somewhat over-rich, though, and does puzzle many viewers)

Among the others (the full list from studio Ghibli is here) I prefer the "contemplative" (slow paced) ones:
Totoro, Kiki and Porco Rosso. Those who prefer the "active" ones (epic, action) should chose Mononoke, Nausicaa and Laputa.
In fact, the preferences among Miyazaki's fans vary wildly. See for example here.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

There are seven volumes for Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind.

Re:Renting

[Anonymous Coward]

It was published in the US in two different formats. I own a set of the 4 volume printing, but I remember looking at the 7 volume set in the stores when it was first released.

Re:Renting

[esterhasz]

My favorite really is "Castle in the Sky" [Tenkû no shiro Rapyuta] which is perhaps a little less departing from well known narrative structures as others, but it has great characters and this Indiana Jones like "venturing".
Porco Rosso is great for kids and obscenely funny.

Re:Renting

[cgreuter]

Which one of his movies should you rent ?

Castle in the Sky (aka Laputa).

It's out on Disney DVD now. Note, though, that if you rent it, watch it subtitled, not dubbed. Both versions are on the DVD but the English-language soundtrack was put together by someone who can't stand silence, so he (she?) filled it with gratitious music and dialog. The synth-heavy original score sounds a bit dated now but it's worth it just to miss out on that cretin's handiwork.

Laputa is probably my favourite of his movies, but it's also the first of his that I saw, so your mileage may vary. It does feature lots of steampunk-ish flying machines, which is way freakin' cool.

Oh, but you said movies--plural. So the correct answer to that is "all of them". His worst films are still better than 99% of the anime out there and certainly worth the cost of the rental.

No cut

[bidule]

Of course, the "no cut" was because of that "marvelous" Warrior of the Wind. Or how to turn Nausicaa into an hollywoodian action-packed movie.

Re:No cut

[Anonymous Coward]

Iraq was clearly rightful retribution, but what does that have to do with Christian extremists?

Re:No cut

[Anonymous Coward]

Fairly OT, but...

Retribution against what, 9/11?
The people of Iraq had nothing to do with Bin Laden. Same thing for their tyrant. Bush just wanted to play god there. The near civil war there is a real tragedy. If you cannot see this, stop drinking Bush's Kool-Aid until you come to your senses.

Katrina would have been much less a tragedy if the levies had been repaired (guess where the money went) and the National Guard had been there (ditto).

Religious extremist refuse to be consistent. They see tragedies as act of their vengeful god only when it suits them. "God cannot take retribution against Bush, because He is on our side." No better than the Talibans.

What could Lasseter learn from him?

[Infonaut]

John Lasseter could learn a few things about creativity from this man.

I think Miyazaki has creativity in spades, but I'm curious why you're bashing on Lasseter. I've been impressed by his creativity ever since the early days of Pixar, and I've been even more impressed by his ability to bring interesting and nuanced stories to the big screen. Getting anything even remotely intelligent through the Hollywood system is extremely difficult.

So is your criticism of Lasseter based on the plot of his stories, or the animation of Pixar films, or something else? Maybe I'm missing something. Miyazaki is obviously fantastic, but I don't think that means there can't be any other creative people in mainstream animation.

Re:What could Lasseter learn from him?

[stunt_penguin]

Exactly dude, I mean, if he's going to start bashing John Lasseter, is there anyone out there who he thinks *is* talented. Its like you say- who but JL is getting any kind of creativity through the hollywood machine without being strangled?

*concludes that Lasseter is some kind of Jedi dude & has been using the Force Mind Trick to get his way. 'You will leave my scene alone....."I will leave your scene alone"'

Eiichiro Oda...

[JPyun]

...probably should have done the same thing when 4Kids took up One Piece. Or seppuku. Either one.

Re:Eiichiro Oda...

[vranash]

Ooooooonnnnnneeeeeee Piece that's the name of the treaaaaaasuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeee *beat* *beat* *beat* One Piece!

That sounded like a lame early 90's theme song :P

Re:Eiichiro Oda...

[Anonymous Coward]

One Piece is a great show, but 4Kids absolutely ruined it. Seppuku isn't enough for what they did - they need everlasting torment.

Re:No way

[Mahou]

who proclaimed him anyway? i don't remember voting for him.

Re:No way

[bidule]

Some hand-drawn watery tart, I guess.

Fatalism

[Henry V .009]

His is a very serene and contented brand of fatalism. He talks about New Orleans, and Hurricane Katrina and insists that the same thing will happen in Tokyo. There are a lot of water-gates in the city, and the river runs past his home. He smiles and taps ash from his cigarette. There are too many people in the world, he says, and too many wrong turns along the way. At the age of 64, he gives the impression that the planet is doomed but he'll soon be leaving it, and not a minute too soon.

"Personally I am very pessimistic," Miyazaki says. "But when, for instance, one of my staff has a baby you can't help but bless them for a good future. Because I can't tell that child, 'Oh, you shouldn't have come into this life.' And yet I know the world is heading in a bad direction. So with those conflicting thoughts in mind, I think about what kind of films I should be making."

What is the paticular wackiness of Japanese animators in respect to Tokyo? I know that a couple atom bombs will give anybody a complex, but this is just silly. And once I compare the behavior of post-Katrina Black Americans to post-Kobe Japanese, I really don't think that the Japanese have nearly as much to worry about in the "making natural disasters worse" category.

Re:Fatalism

[daniil]

I know that a couple atom bombs will give anybody a complex, but this is just silly.

I do believe the roots of this fatalism are way deeper than such recent history (and besides, what else is history anyway than a passing wind?). If anything, then a couple of atom bombs will only make a true fatalist shrug and say "told you so."

Re:Fatalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps it's the fact that Tokyo is one of the world's most earthquake-prone cities?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/T316888.h tm

Re:Fatalism

[Anonymous Coward]

except for maybe godzilla.

Re:Fatalism

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that a couple atom bombs will give anybody a complex, but this is just silly.

What is it with americans that they believe that the lives of japanese turn around atom bombs?

There are ~30 million people in Tokyo. And a Tokyo resident has owned the right to believe that there are too many people in this world.

Now shut up you self centered american and stop wanking your precious atom bombs.

Re:Fatalism

[Anonymous Coward]

March 2015!

Re:Fatalism

[madgamer]

And once I compare the behavior of post-Katrina Black Americans to post-Kobe Japanese

did kobe bryant rape the japanese as well?

Re:Fatalism

[Eunuchswear]

And once I compare the behavior of post-Katrina Black Americans to post-Kobe Japanese [...]

Ah yes, those naughty blacks, looting while the nice white people "found" food in shops, staying in the superdome while the nice white people were "smuggled" out by the NG, even trying to save their lives by walking into nice white Gretna county until the brave sherrifs department fired over their heads, forcing them back into the flooded city.

Hint: maybe people in Kobe behaved better because their government and fellow citizens tried to help them, rather than treating them as "insurgents".

Re:Fatalism

[Henry V .009]

"Ah yes, those naughty blacks, looting while the nice white people "found" food in shops"

Still repeating that stupid loot vs. find hoax? AFP != AP, you know. Please find the white version of black police officers looting the local Walmart of color TVs after a natural disaster and get back to me. Looting, rape, murder, and mayham is not normal behavior after a natural disaster. Gretna started turning people away after looting began and one fire had already been started. Sorry, but if you're going to shit where you sit, I'm not going to let you inside my house.

Re:Fatalism

[meringuoid]

What is the paticular wackiness of Japanese animators in respect to Tokyo?

Huge city, something like thirty million people, and pretty much guaranteed to get a complete pasting from an earthquake sooner or later. When the big one hits Tokyo, well... New Orleans will look like Boscastle.

Not to mention the complete wreck the USAF left of the place, and the repeated levellings of the city by Gojira and his comrades.

Re:Fatalism

[greenrd]

Do you really think that an entire city's population should be left to fend for themselves - in a city where there is not enough food or clean water - because of the behaviour of a minority?

Do you really think it's the responsibility of ordinary people to stop criminals?

Are you some kind of anarchist? That's what police officers are supposed to do, unless you're some kind of whacked-out anarchist who believe that it's everybody's job to stop criminals in their community. (No, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm deadly serious.)

Bush was right when he said that "results are not acceptable" with regard to regaining law and order.

Re:Fatalism

[Henry V .009]

Do you really think it's the responsibility of ordinary people to stop criminals?

That statement confuses me. Where did it come from? Did you mean to reply to someone else?

Bush was right when he said that "results are not acceptable" with regard to regaining law and order.

Exactly. I think that the National Guard should have been sent in earlier to maintain order. The people in charge have gone on record that they were too worried about "another Kent State" to do it. Yeah, maybe they would have had to shoot some people, but they would have maintained order, which would have saved lives in aggregate. One major problem was that officials were nice and PC: they assumed that a city of poor Blacks after a disaster would behave the same as Whites after a disaster. They were wrong. In this instance their PC beliefs killed people.

Re:Fatalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he's a follower of Edgar Cacye or Zeta Talk.

Weinstien. Cuts?

[techstar25]

Does anyone find it ironic that the producer (or executive producer) of Pulp Fiction, Bad Santa, Kill Bill, Sin City, Fahrenheit 9/11, and Clerks, wanted to CUT something from a film? I coudn't have been that hard of a sell.

Re:Weinstien. Cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

He insisted on cutting twenty minutes out of hero because he felt that nearly two hours was too long for a foreign film. http://www.monkeypeaches.com/Hero.html

Re:Weinstien. Cuts?

[Allison Geode]

the weinstein's are notorious for making cuts. they do NOT like long movies, and have cut huge chunks out of imported cinematic feasts such as "Cinema Paradiso" and "life is beautiful." Princess Mononoke, the movie that was localized by Miramax's staff, is considered to be long for an animated movie. it was also more violent than anything that disney has ever produced.

Re:Weinstien. Cuts?

[mink]

Didnt they cut Shal We Dance (the Japanese version)?

Re:No way

[Anonymous Coward]

who proclaimed him anyway? i don't remember voting for him.

I don't remember voting for the Pope either, but that doesn't make him any less The Pope.

Miyazaki for Disney CEO!

[Travoltus]

Every time I see a Miyazaki movie I'm reminded of what Disney used to be.

Re:Miyazaki for Disney CEO!

[Anonymous Coward]

Porn? Where? I didn't know Miyazaki films had porn. WTF are you smoking?

Re:No way

[Mahou]

yes it does

Re:Please God let me ignore the 'Anime' section

[DoktorTomoe]

Just after I ran out of moderator points ... I am a nerd, enjoying the finer - japanese - arts of animation, you insensitive clod.

Kiki's Delivery Service

[Anonymous Coward]

Though I haven't seen "Kiki's delivery service" yet which I heard wasn't as good. I'm sure it is though.

Kiki's Delivery Service is a nicely-made cartoon that, had I seen it first as a 9-year old girl, I'd probably love for the rest of my life.

However, I have to say, it doesn't have the same depth as Spirited Away (which I loved). In particular, some aspects of the plot will simply strike you as silly if you watch it for the first time as an adult (no spoilers, but I found myself thinking "Why have they sent a 13-year old (or whatever) girl off to find some job without having any plans as to what she's doing or where she's going? Isn't her mother more than a *little* concerned when she flies off and evidently can't control her broomstick?")

And so on throughout the film. It didn't grab me at all, but then I'm the better part of 20 years older than the target audience... so, not a bad animation, just one that's more suitable for kids than adults. Actually, I'm sure younger kids (6 or under) would enjoy it more than Spirited Away (or Mononoke for that matter).

Something Disney did right

[Anonymous Coward]

Having seen the usual run of the mill English translation/voice-over stuff from the far east (I collect martial arts movies), I am very impressed at how well Disney renders these videos into English. You wouldn't know the original animation was done in Japanese.

No cuts?

[St. Arbirix]

I must say that I hope something was cut in the American release of Howl's Moving Castle.

It just played on campus last Wednesday. The film quality was pretty bad and the sound was absolutely horrible (I blame the distributer). The drawing had to be the best I think I've ever seen in any anime or Disney flick.

There was one major plot hole that pretty much the whole audience fell through though. At a point late in the movie, after they've alluded to one character having had a curse put on him, the main girl kisses this character and with a *pop* he turns into a real person and exclaims: "I'm the prince from the kingdom next door!"

The audience roared with laughter at that. There was absolutely no mention in the beginning of the movie about this missing prince (that we could hear, maybe it was the shitty sound) and at the very end we realized that he was the whole reason for the war that was the major plot element of the story.

I really hope there was something cut from the Miyazaki version. Or at least that there was something said that we collectively managed to miss.

Re:No cuts?

[Baloo Ursidae]

The drawing had to be the best I think I've ever seen in any anime or Disney flick.

To be fair, the last movie Disney Animation made before it closed forever was Brother Bear.

Re:No cuts?

[Rauser]

Thanks for the spoilers

Re:No cuts?

[Boogaroo]

They did mention he was missing and that this was the trigger for the war.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was lucky enough to see a sneak preview when Miyazaki visited our UK studios last November.

The hole you mention regarding the war is covered early on in the film's dialogue, although it's very easy to miss as there's no indication it's a major part of the plot. I suppose there's a chance it may have been cut, but I can't really think of a reason - it was literally one sentence.

That aside, I did manage to have a few words with him through his interpreter and what struck me was his intense passion for his art. His influences and cultural references are a universe apart from the average Hollywood CGI blockbuster and make a refreshing change. I wish there were more film makers like him, I really do...

Re:No cuts?

[darkwhite]

Unfortunately to my best knowledge there were no cuts.

Compared to other Miyazaki movies (which I consider to be near the top of the world's cultural heritage) I was thoroughly disappointed by the plot and pacing. I really hope Miyazaki will be able to match the genius he imparted on Mononoke and Spirited Away, because Howl falls far short of a grand finale.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's very odd, because i saw the same film a few months ago, and the prince was most certainly mentioned. several times, in fact, within the first twenty minutes of the movie.

however, the end of the movie most certainly had a "deus ex machina" feel to it.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it does mention it. modded down for spoilers.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually no, it was Home on the Range...with the cows.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was something you missed.

Near the beginning, three people in the background can be heard talking about how the war started and how the prince from the neighbouring kingdom went missing.

Re:No cuts?

[MoriaOrc]

They did, but it wasn't just put out there. The place I remember hearing it (and there could have been another I just don't remember) is from someone in the background (of the movie) near the beggining (when Sophie is leaving the hat shop for good, I think). Bad sound quality definetly could have made you miss that line.

Re:No cuts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the problem with it is that Howl's was taken from a preexisting book, with a much too complex storyline to really translate to film well. Also, in the original japanese he goes a lot more into shinto and other religious stuff that I've yet to see well translated either subbed or dubbed

Re:No cuts?

[St. Arbirix]

No problem.
?

Re:No cuts?

[St. Arbirix]

The topic of my post is about cuts. Obviously I'm going to talk about things in the movie.

Too subtle? I though "At one point in the movie..." was a pretty good hint too.

Re:No cuts?

[saitouwolfofmibu]

you could always just download a new copy it is pretty good

Re:No cuts?

[Ansonmont]

I saw Howl's Moving Castle on a public theater screen (not much larger than a good plasma) with my wife and two daughters, ages 6 and 3, a couple of months ago. All of us were caught up in the story, its beauty and the way that it brought us into its world. It isn't perfect, and Billy Crystal's voiceover got particularly annoying at times to me and my wife, but overall the complexity and realness of patently UNREAL animated characters made the whole story riveting and beliveable to all of us. That is a good thing for a movie to do.

Highly reccomended. BTW, not sure why people thing Spirited Away is so inaccesible. Who can't relate to being the new person, caught in a world that is avaracious, cruel, sweet, wonderful, ultimately doomed, not what it seems, partially familiar and symbolic of mankind's un(?)intended war against nature?

-A

Re:No cuts?

[gryphoness]

There was a lot cut out of Howl's Moving Castle, but not by Disney or Miyazaki. It was based on the Diana Wynne Jones book, and by 'based' I mean they took the vague idea of part of what the book was about and spun it into an entirely new movie. There's nothing wrong with this in concept, but what you wound up with was, as you mention, some rather confusing moments in the movie. Several characters were cut out entirely, some had their stories changed, and others bear almost no resemblance whatsoever to their origin characters. In fairness, Howl's was a very complicated story -- one of Diana Wynne Jone's SIMPLER ones, I think, and so a good choice for a movie, but nothing of hers is truly simple or straightforward. It had about six different plots all braided together. For some reason, instead of pulling the essence out of these plots, Miyazaki elected to take part of one of them and then ADD new plot elements that, if they were there at all in the book, were so only in shadow or insinuation, not directly. He focused a LOT on the war, and after watching the movie I had a distinct nagging feeling that the current world political climate -- read the US's warmongering -- strongly influenced how that was expressed. It's hard to say, though -- air battles are one of the things he enjoys rendering in animation, so maybe the plot was adapted that way to begin with.

Re:No cuts?

[Have Blue]

It's also worth pointing out that that's almost exactly how it happens in the original book.

Re:Please God let me ignore the 'Anime' section

[nytmare]

How about a checkbox to ignore Anime stories?

There used to be one a while back, but the preferences got reshuffled. I can't for the life of me find a current way to filter this highly niched topic off the main page. Anyone?

I disagree

[Travoltus]

Mononoke's story line does not resemble Spirited Away does not resemble Porco Rosso does not resemble Castle in the Sky does not resemble Totoro does not resemble Kiki's Delivery Service.

The one thing that many Miyazaki cartoons have in common, though, is that kids can watch them. This is especially true for Kiki's Delivery Service, Totoro, Spirited Away, and Castle in the Sky Laputa.

This is why I say Miyazaki reminds me of the old Disney in that he's creating stories that people will remember.

Re:I disagree

[king-manic]

This is why I say Miyazaki reminds me of the old Disney in that he's creating stories that people will remember.

Old disney films was alright, Old walt disney was not. He was a pretty miserly old man who prolly would sell your kids for a buck.

Re:I disagree

[Trespass]

Mononoke is Nausicaa with wolves instead of bugs.

Tigers Covered in Mud was pretty cool, though.

Re:I disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, even for slashdot that was unintelligible.

Re:I disagree

[Phyvo]

Princess Mononoke doesn't strike me as very kid friendly. I mean, the main character has a wiggly cursed arm and shoots off the limbs of people! I wouldn't let my 6 year old watch it (if I had one). I don't know about the other ones though.

Miyazaki and Oshii: two of a kind.

[MsGeek]

Heh, that's the very thing some people say about Oshii-sensei. Miyazaki-sensei and Oshii-sensei are cut from the same cloth. They are both tough, eccentric personalities who each have singular artistic visions -- both quite divergent from each other -- and pursue them with determination.

I didn't get a chance to see Howl yet, but Sen to Chihhiro aka Spirited Away and Innocence: Ghost In The Shell II are both incredible artistic statements.

Probably anyone here posting on this thread has seen Spirited Away, but rent or buy Innocence because it's freakin' incredible. It didn't get enough attention in the theatres, where people actually should have seen it, but DVD will have to do at this point. Try to see it on a big screen...there are some set pieces that will absolutely blow your mind.

Re:Miyazaki and Oshii: two of a kind.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sen to Chihhiro aka Spirited Away

If you want to impress people by pretentiously quoting titles in Japanese, it would be advisable to spell it correctly. That's "Chihiro". Two h's, not three. And it's a bit odd that you miss out the no kamikakushi part from which the English title is actually derived.

Re:I hate to be contrarian, but..

[snorb]

It's definitely mentioned near the beginning of the movie that the war is due to a prince being missing, but it's in the background dialogue. So if the sound quality was bad at your showing, it'd be easy to miss.

Re:No way

[Rakshasa Taisab]

It's a meritocracy, your vote doesn't count.

Warriors of the Wind

[r3jjs]

Gads... I wish I /could/ forget that horrible excuse for a film. Though I saw WotW first, I realized the movie had been badly botched and made no sense what-so-ever. Watching a fan-dubbed version of the origional made everything clear and came as a relief.

It is amazing how I can go from disliking someone (Miyazaki) and transferring that dislike to the correct person (Charles Masek -- spelling guessed at).

Re:Warriors of the Wind

[lgw]

I had a similar experience with Ghost in the Shell. The voice acting on the English dub is so bad that I came away wondering why anyone would like it. Watching it later, subtitled, it was an excellent, compelling story.

Re:Warriors of the Wind

[tgibbs]

I had the opposite experience. I loved Warriors of the Wind. Even in its butchered form, it is far superior to most US animation, and perfectly comprehensible. It inspired me to seek out the rest of Miyazaki's work, including the fan-dubbed original. To see the original version was a true treat. The full version is inarguably far superior, but Miyazaki's brilliance still shines through.

Re:Warriors of the Wind

[badnews_bear]

Agreed. I think that you're referring to Carl Macek, the butcher of anime. Everything he stuck his hands in was horribly disfigured. Macross Saga (Robotech in the US), Nausciaa of the Valley of the Wind (Warriors of the Wind), I think he was also responsible for the maiming of Fist of the Northstar (the original anime movie in the '80s). I think his offspring are the people that run Funimation (those who mangled the release of Dragonball Z).

-1 Redundant

[fm6]

You really should read the other replies to a post before replying yourself.

Re:-1 Redundant

[Jason Earl]

Yeah, his comment was way funnier than mine too. I am pretty sure that I started my post before his went up, but I was working on something else and it took me a long time to post.

Re:-1 Redundant

[fm6]

Oh well, it happens.

Anyway, I was never saying that kiddie movies should have full frontal nudity! But if Walt couldn't show satyrs without turning them into eunuchs, he shouldn't show them at all. In Fantasia, he pretending to educate his audience (including adults, which were actually the main audience for cartoons in the 30s) about clasical culture. Of course there are parts he has to skip over. But when he shows castrated satyrs, he's not skipping over the racy bits, he sugar-coating them into nothingness.

God of Anime???

[fishbowl]

Because he makes material with enough mainstream appeal, or is lucky enough to have his material promoted by the largest marketing machine on the planet, he puts more asses in the theatre seat, that makes him "God?"

This is like saying the Backstreet Boys are better than Beethoven because they sell more CDs!

Re:God of Anime???

[rhakka]

What, not enough tentacle rape for you?

Re:God of Anime???

[Anonymous Coward]

Homer: Mmm...tentacle rape [drool]

Re:Please God let me ignore the 'Anime' section

[katarac]

You don't need God or the Masters of Slashdot to ignore an article. You're just not trying very hard.

First step: If you see a girl with green hair, ignore (using your brain, and eyes!) the text to the left of it.

Tell me about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just don't understand the total fascination with anime around here. I don't think it's dumb or undeserving; I just don't think it's worthy of the unwavering high praise it gets. And another thing, is there really a high correlation between geeks/nerds and anime? In my experience the answer is yes, even though I personally hate it. I don't understand why this is.

Re:Tell me about it.

[Eric604]

I just don't understand the total fascination with anime around here. I don't think it's dumb or undeserving; I just don't think it's worthy of the unwavering high praise it gets. And another thing, is there really a high correlation between geeks/nerds and anime? In my experience the answer is yes, even though I personally hate it. I don't understand why this is.

Well, I started to watch anime because I find 'real' movies becoming increasingly disappointing. You also have to understand that not all anime is the same, there are many variations. I maybe only like 10% of all anime but it's still worth seeking out those 10%.

Re:Tell me about it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just don't understand the total fascination with anime around here. I don't think it's dumb or undeserving; I just don't think it's worthy of the unwavering high praise it gets. And another thing, is there really a high correlation between geeks/nerds and anime? In my experience the answer is yes, even though I personally hate it. I don't understand why this is.

Anime is just another medium. There are tons of crap, and there are lots of gems. There's lots of crap on American tv/theatres these days, but I don't hate tv/Hollywood. I'm just more picky about which shows/movies I'll watch, if I watch at all.

My suggestions:

[Szplug]

Mononoke is his most adult and maybe the most beautiful, but it left my virgin stomach in a knot from the lack of Hollywood tidiness of plot. It's also quite different from his other works.

Spirited Away is more representative of his other stuff, and probably the best of the rest of it. Interesting & engaging; also will twist a non-Japanese stomach.

The two above are the most recent (barring "Howl's") and IMO not second to any of the rest, so I'd say start with the two above. Now, I like his movies for the adventure & imagination, so this is my order of preference of the rest:

Laputa, & Nausicaa (I prefer Laputa, but I wouldn't miss Nausicaa either. It's based on a long series, I wish they'd managed to put more of it in the movie).

My Neighbor Totoro for kids but plenty imaginative and dang cute (secretly one of my favs).

Kiki's Delivery Service - good for 10-12 yr old girls but not much for anyone else (IMO; but then, I like imaginative stuff like I said).

Porco Rosso - Useless! Very early work; you can see the Miyazaki elements (cute little girls, strong young women & flying pirates) but other than that it's the bottom of the barrel (again IMO). For Miyazaki completists.

Note I haven't seen Howl's Moving Castle or Lupin III.

Re:My suggestions:

[Cuthalion]

Hah. Porco Rosso is my favorite of all of them!

Re:My suggestions:

[Lemmy Caution]

Porco Rosso was the film he made for adults. In fact, if you aren't over thirty, it may be hard to understand some of its emotional impact - what it means to be turned into a pig, and estranged from love.

Re:God of Anime??? Well...

[PSaltyDS]

...I for one welcome our new animated Overlord!

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post score - Flamebait - shows that you are not Of The Slashbot. You must report to the reeducation centre at once.

Fuck Disney up the ASS with a chainsaw.

[jonskerr]

They DO fuck with the movies, and I will NEVER forgive those cocksuckers for completely changing the meaning of the entire Castle in the Sky film.

The asshole main character is shooting essentially nuclear blasts at the ocean under Laputa, and in the dubbed and "hearing impaired" version of the subtitles, Shita says "No matter how many weapons you have... no matter how great your technology might be... the world cannot live without love." What a bunch of bullshit pablum, written by and for suburban born again christians in Beigeland.

The japanese and correctly translated subtitles version says "No matter how powerful your weapons or numerous your poor robots, you can't survive apart from the Earth."
BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. Miyazaki-san should sue Disney for breach of contract. And make them totally reissue every DVD sold. The extras even show the couple who write all the adaptations (except the one Neil Gaiman redid). They look like a couple of mormon evangelizers. Conformist blandofuckers. And we can see from recent events just how serious the consequences are for ignoring our environment. They should be dragged from their beige townhouse and driven over repeatedly with their own SUV.

Re:Fuck Disney up the ASS with a chainsaw.

[plasmacutter]

another reason to break DRM wide open and do some tinkering with the subtitle scripts on the dvd ^_^

Re:Fuck Disney up the ASS with a chainsaw.

[Parham]

Not even worth the effort... watch the originals with English subtitles (if they came with the original) or else find a nice small fansub group that translated it. Watching the Disney (or any big name company) version is just a waste of time.

The state of the industry...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, here's a brilliant example of what's wrong with US anime industry today. Probably one of the most respected directors in anime had to actually fly in and demand not to mess with his stuff. Forget keeping the material intact or respecting the creator's vision when our marketing research drones tell us we can "potentially" make 2 or 3 bucks more by screwing with it till marketing, rather than the creator, approves it.

I swear, if the industry was in charge of the mona lisa and marketing told them more people would buy prints if she was showing her pearly whites they'd paint right over the friggin thing!

Just import or pirate anime, at least that way you can avoid the marketroid version of whatever you're watching. Sadly, that is actually pretty much what is happening. And the companies wonder why they're hated and fansubs are loved.

Re:The state of the industry...

[Doctor Cat]

Probably one of the most respected directors in anime had to actually fly in and demand not to mess with his stuff.

He didn't have to fly in at all. His contract with Disney famously denies them the right to make any cuts whatsoever. He was flying in to discuss the project anyway, so Weinstein asked him to make exceptions and give permission for cuts to be made. All he had to do was say no, and had he stayed in Japan during that time, all he would have to do was fax, email, or telephone a "no". Or just not answer the requests at all - they have no legal right to make any cuts unless he were to grant them such a right.

Totoro!

[jonskerr]

My Neighbor Totoro. It's a great film for both kids and adults, and is really really good to adults instead of being boring and stupid like most kid-films are. Great lead-in to his other stuff too.

Re:Honesly, I got a boner when I misread this

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're a lifelong virgin.

Re:Please God let me ignore the 'Anime' section

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not quite sure what to make of people who exhibit such severe animosity towards animation that comes out of another country.

    I can only assume there's some kind of obscured racism involved, because it seems to generate real feelings of anger in a very small subset of people.

Re:OT

[Anonymous Coward]

If Katrina WAS an act of God, it certainly would have been retribution against New Orleans, because it was a very wicked city.

The infamous French Quarter was barely even touched. Your god is an dimwitted asshat with shitty aim.

Re:Please God let me ignore the 'Anime' section

[Anonymous Coward]

Good heavens... someone with "Goth" in their nickname, accusing anime fans of belonging to an subculture with unattractive members and strange sexual practices?

You must be joking!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone should be aware that "Anime" is not just harmless fun.

MOD PARENT DOWN!!!

[jtbauki]

What the heck are you talking about? He's been making anime movies before he signed a contract with Disney. He's been making movies for decades. Research your subject before you start whining. It just makes you look stupid.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!!

[fishbowl]

"Research your subject before you start whining. It just makes you look stupid."

I've seen his material and I still think it's boring.

He RUINED Howl's Moving Castle!

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

I had read the book, and was severely annoyed that the movie thoroughly trashed the plot and characters of a very good children's book:

• Insertion of gratuitous air raid scenes
• Sofie had MAGIC in the book ... she's demoted to an Anime chick in the movie
• Hacked out the backstory so you have no clue who the girl in the bakery is
• Etc.
• And so forth

Re:He RUINED Howl's Moving Castle!

[patiwat]

Your comments are valid and interesting. But note, though, that Diana Wynne Jones, the author herself, was reportedly very pleased with the movie.

The following quote comes from http://ansible.co.uk/Ansible/a210.html and refers to a personal screening of Howl's Moving Castle that Miyazaki hosted for Mrs. Jones near her home in Bristol:

`Miyazaki came in person, carrying with him a tape of the film, an interpreter and sundry other shadowy figures (all this was supposed to be secret for fear of the Japanese media, who then descended on me afterwards, so I couldn't mention it beforehand) and we had a private showing at the Watershed cinema. The film is goluptuously splendid with breathtaking animation. I had grown used to young ladies regularly writing to me to say that they wanted to marry Howl. Now, Howl in the film is so plain stunning and sexy that I think I have joined them. And after the showing and the scamper through Bristol I had a long talk with Mr Miyazaki and it began to seem that we were soulmates.'

I personally think that Sofie wasn't merely just any anime chick - she's a Miyazaki anime chick! Like Nausicaa, Fio (Kurenai no Buta/Porco Rosso), Shizuku (Whispers of the Heart/Mimi wo Sumaseba), and the other great Ghibli female leads, Sofie has more spunk, curiosity, complexity, and compassion than the vast majority of heroines of just about any genre.

As for the air raid scenes - this is a war we're talking about. Unfortunately, air raids on civilians are an inevitability of any modern war. But seeing it from the perspective of the victim in such explicit horrible detail really emphasis to the viewer that this war really really sucks.

I personally think that Miyazaki has a pretty good record of book/story adaptations:

  - Gauche the Cellist (Miyazawa Kenji) had a wonderful soundtrack, the right "feel", and is a very faithful adaptation.
  - Whispers of the Heart (Hiraagi Aoi) unfortunately removed a lot of poetic elements, and made some significant changes to the plot, but retains the overall "feel", while the character development of Shizuku is just wonderful. And the magic of the very last scene with the bicycle is beyond words.
  - Ironically, Miyazaki's most disappointing adaptation, in my opinion, is Nausicaa. For me, the manga was an extradordinarily complex landmark work. The movie, although wonderful, just couldn't compare. The entire environmental theme (can man ever live in harmony with nature?) was only scratched at in the movie.

Re:He RUINED Howl's Moving Castle!

[Anonymous Coward]

I just read the book. Frankly he did a _huge_ improvement:

    1. His character development is far far better --- while sophie lost her magic, she got a spine;
    2. He cut a bunch of details that didn't touch with the deeper moral issues; his gratuitis air raid scenes hammered the theme "war is bad";
    3. He gave the witch of the wastes redemption;
    4. He cut 60% of the boring material that didn't move the plot along

In short, this movie is a _huge_ improvement over the book.

Re:He RUINED Howl's Moving Castle!

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Have you read the book?

Diana Wynne Jones, the author herself, was reportedly very pleased with the movie.

What's she supposed to say? Very few authors have the luxury (like JK Rowling) of having script approval. And I agree with her that the animation was great and Howl was a hunk. I note that she appears to have said nothing about what happened to Sofie's character.

Sofie has more spunk, curiosity, complexity, and compassion than the vast majority of heroines of just about any genre.

In the book, Sofie also had a backstory, subtle magic, and a lot more to do than play girl-chick to an anime hero. I was disappointed at the dumbing-down of the character.

"As for the air raid scenes - this is a war we're talking about. Unfortunately, air raids on civilians are an inevitability of any modern war. But seeing it from the perspective of the victim in such explicit horrible detail really emphasis to the viewer that this war really really sucks."

The air raids weren't in the book, nor was the war ... it was in the slow build-up, ominous saber rattling stage that Sofie and Howl are trying to prevent. The script writer invented the war and the raids, and in the process, ruined the build-up of tension. Huge chunks of plot had to be cut so the air raid scenes could fit.

Re:He RUINED Howl's Moving Castle!

[Savantissimo]

The worst example of this was Frank Herbert's pimping for Dune, one of the worst SF films ever. The director totally gutted his great book and replaced it with utter nonsense.

So many defenders of Porco Rosso!

[Szplug]

I didn't get anything out of it, too much of the noisy flying pirates I guess. Plus, the pig business wasn't really connected to anything, at least, not that I could glean. It wasn't due to any failure of his, just an action of some witch, so I couldn't get any deeper meaning out of it. And none of his good actions were anything he hadn't been doing all along, so there was no heroism or development really.

To each his own I guess.

Re:So many defenders of Porco Rosso!

[Lemmy Caution]

That's part of the age-thing. He is past the age of his great heroism, and lives in the time of smaller ones.

It's also, like a lot of HM films, about the problems of an age falling into the past, but in this case it is replete with references to Italian fascism (including the aesthetics and mores of Italian futurism, who called their writers "aeropoets.")

What a load of shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of us justifiably believe that "anime" is nothing more than a grotesquely overrated pile of crap which has resulted in an attempt by a few desperate fucktards to fabricate something from nothing.

"You don't like anime therefore you don't get it, which means I'm better than you."

Re:What a load of shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did I say that?

  I think it's interesting that you're reading that into what I said.

  I actually agree that a great deal of Japanese animation is just trash that isn't any better than "Full House" or "American Idol". All the same there's some really great stuff in there as well.

    What I'm fascinated by is your hostility on the topic.

Re:What a load of shit.

[DoktorTomoe]

A lot of us justifiably believe that "anime" is nothing more than a grotesquely overrated pile of crap which has resulted in an attempt by a few desperate fucktards to fabricate something from nothing.

Just like SCO, then?

Huh! Yes, there was that

[Szplug]

and you saw more in it than I did. Hat's off.

NO BITCH!!!

[tezbobobo]

some dude delivers the +10 Sword of DON"T CUT MY FREAKIN MOVIE

Re:Here we go...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not lotion.

Re:Renting -- Laputa

[jiawen]

My personal favorite is Laputa. It's got a lot of the classic Miyazaki tropes: kids who are genuinely cute, not just annoyingly big-eyed adults; tons of cool steampunk-type airships; complex characters that aren't necessarily what they seem; some very funny moments; a lot of excellent animation; a lot of "gosh-wow" sense of wonder; and a very emotionally affecting story.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that if you don't like Laputa you won't like Miyazaki's other stuff (definitely try more if you don't like the first one you try!), but it's really some of his strongest work. It's probably one of my three or four favorite movies of all time.

SOB director = director with artistic control

[jiawen]

Some of the most brilliant directors have been the ones who are the biggest control freaks. Kubrick, for example, demanded extremely exacting control over every facet of his movies' creation. That's how he managed to keep his art intact and coherent.

Ridley Scott's work on Blade Runner shows a similar link between hard-nosed directorial oversight and strong art.

Miyazaki is, I think, one of the few Japanese directors who really gets to make the whole production his. If he needs a spare half-million for some complicated animation or a long sequence, he gets it, and then he gets it right.

He may seem like an asshole, but that's necessary to get lasting art. I just wouldn't want to be an in-betweener or designed on one of his productions. (Well, maybe...)

Re:OT

[DDLKermit007]

Yes...New Orleans got exactly what they deserved for voting BUSH!!!

Laputa - Last Exile

[NuShrike]

On a side note, if you are interested in a vastly expanded universe that has Laputa-style technology & world with great story and modern (Japanese) animation, check out Last Exile: http://halo-productions.com/LastExile/ available on DVD from Geneon (formerly known as Pioneer).

OT: one example of CGI used correctly

[Bostik]

It used to be that special effects were used to make something look real that otherwise couldn't be done. Nowadays, CGI effects are used for the sake of the effect - there's not even any intent to make something look real, the intent is instead to draw attention to the effect.

Although in general I very much agree with the sentiment above, it is also a rather sobering to discover that at least some directors manage to use computer graphics properly. In Hollywood, no less. The best case in point: Gattaca Note the genre: science-fiction, and even then CGI is not the main character.

Censored, yes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Censored is fine, but not simply *deleted*.

"Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron", while not a Disney movie, is an excellent example. That was not a stallion. A stallion has a giant member. It changes the entire shape of the horse's belly. You can't just delete that shape because you're uncomfortable that horse's have such a piece. You can sure leave it sheathed, just a bump under the skin... but you can't delete it.

I worry about Miyazaki...

[tjlsmith]

because everyone one of his leading characters is an adolescent girl. I'm worried they'll catch him in the kip with one one day.

Re:I worry about Miyazaki...

[weasel_bot]

He was interviewed about this once:

Question: Why do you always choose a girl as your theme?

Miyazaki: I don't logically plan it that way. When we compare a man in action and a girl in action, I feel girls are more gallant. If a boy is walking with a long stride, I don't think anything particular, but if a girl is walking gallantly, I feel "that's cool." Maybe that's because I'm a man, and women may think it's cool when they see a young man striding. At first, I thought "this is no longer the era of men. This is no longer the era of taigimeibun." But after ten years, I grew tired of saying that. I just say "cause I like women." That has more reality.

The original quote was here: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/heroin es.html#s2. There's also a few more interviews about the subject there as well.

Cheers,
Paul

Mononoke's dubbing sucks as well

[Chess Cardigan]

I totally agree with you.

There are heaps of differences between the correctly translated subtitles and the dubbed version in Princess Mononoke as well. For example when Moro is speaking of the attack of the boars, in the dubbed version Moro says something like:
"It's a trap. And a stupid one. But Okkoto won't listen. None of them will."
Whereas the correct translation is:
"It's a foolish trap. But Okkoto is no fool. He knows its a trap. But he will attack anyway."
Furthermore, the Japanese version has many silent scenes which are blabbered over in the dubbed version.
These and many other seemingly subtle differences give quite a different feel to the movie.

I acknowledge that dubbing is not an easy task. A direct translation would give very unnatural sounding dialogue. But my suspicion is that Disney's dumbing down on Miyazaki's movies is driven by the arrogant assumption that the audience is stupid and the story needs to be Americanised to make it accessible (and profitable.) They don't imagine that people may enjoy the story in its unaltered form, or that we may be interested in the perspectives on another culture. Yet its Miyazaki's Studio Ghibli, which puts creative integrity first (before profit) that is successful, while Disney is in a downward spiral.

Re:Mononoke's dubbing sucks as well

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Disney just figures anyone who wants to see it in it's original form will just watch it subtitled and in it's original language, which is included on the DVD.

So...Disney is not ALL bad. Never thought I'd be saying that. ;)

Re:Mononoke's dubbing sucks as well

[Chess Cardigan]

You're right, except that my guess is that many people are unaware that they are getting a distorted version. Well at least I was. For example, I orginally watched the dubbed versions of Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke. I just assumed that having someone act out the translation is better than reading subtitles at the bottom of the screen, which distracts you from looking at the pictures. It wasn't until I watched the subtitled version that I realised there were significant differences.

So maybe Disney should have a community announcement at the beginning of their screenings: "Warning: the English language soundtrack dialogue may not reflect the sentiments of the original movie."

Cuts are made for many reasons.

[jotaeleemeese]

Which are not necessarily the ones you are infering.

Why are /.ers like this?

[jotaeleemeese]

They make an interesting point and then they let us salivating on the expectation of the nitty gritty details.

What are those oh so insightful cultural references in a movie where my greatest recollecion of it is of a vomiting (or was it shitting) mega worm?

Repeat after me.

[jotaeleemeese]

Movies may be based on books, that does not mean they should be textually accurate.

And again.

Movies may be based on books, that does not mean they should be textually accurate.

And agian.

Movies ....

Double Standard

[overshoot]

Probably one of the most respected directors in anime had to actually fly in and demand not to mess with his stuff. Forget keeping the material intact or respecting the creator's vision when our marketing research drones tell us we can "potentially" make 2 or 3 bucks more by screwing with it till marketing, rather than the creator, approves it.

That's a bit of a double standard, isn't it?

He certainly "screwed with" Howl's Moving Castle so that it was barely recognizable. Maybe he did it for idiological reasons instead of marketing -- or maybe he did it because the idiology is good marketing in Japan. Either way, he certainly was "messing with" Diana Wynn-Jone's "stuff."

WHAT war?

[overshoot]

As for the air raid scenes - this is a war we're talking about. Unfortunately, air raids on civilians are an inevitability of any modern war. But seeing it from the perspective of the victim in such explicit horrible detail really emphasis to the viewer that this war really really sucks.

Well, yes -- except that in the book there was no war! Miyazaki-san took a perfectly good story and, rather than tell it, forced it into his own obsession.

You can't justify the air raids as a necessary consequence of the war when the war was created as a justification for the air raids.

Cuts vs. Grafts

[overshoot]

Movies may be based on books, that does not mean they should be textually accurate.

Trite. There is a difference between the kind of editing dictated by the length (LOTR, for instance) and format constraints [1] of a movie and what Miyazaki-san did. Cuts are necessary -- but he inserted a completely foreign theme, warped the plot around it, and cut most of the original story to make room.

That is not the kind of "adaptation" that is compatible with any kind of artistic integrity.

[1] Catch-22 relies so much on narrative that it makes a crappy movie, IMHO always will.

Huge "improvement"

[overshoot]

His character development is far far better --- while sophie lost her magic, she got a spine;

As in the book, except that in the book she developed, not just changed spontaneously.

He cut a bunch of details that didn't touch with the deeper moral issues; his gratuitis air raid scenes hammered the theme "war is bad";

Hammering a theme that wasn't in the book to begin with isn't exactly something to be proud of.

Or perhaps should Spirited Away also have had an antiwar theme grafted on and "hammered" home?

He gave the witch of the wastes redemption;

Yeah, by turning Howl's old teacher into a one-dimensional villain and completely removing the entire moral theme of giving up your humanity for power. There's a real "deeper moral theme" for you, with an in-depth development far more profound than "war is bad."

Whoopie -- war is bad. I'm writing now from Hamburg, where they keep a burned-out church steeple as a reminder of that theme. Much more profound than Miyazaki-san's thin, cliche'd air raids.

He cut 60% of the boring material that didn't move the plot along

Hate to break it to you laddie, but that "boring material" was precisely the "character development" and "deeper moral theme" that did move the plot along. Without them, the movie is just a shallow excuse for lots of flash-bang eye candy.

Visually stunning, no question. About as much substance as cotton candy, too.

Check the new Sight & Sound magazine...

[TransformerStan]

...for a similar interview with Miyazaki-san. Very interesting.

He was born right before WWII

[3.5 stripes]

He says some of his earliest memories are of the the completely destroyed cities.

See if that doesn't leave an impression on you.

THANKS FOR THE SPOILER (Re:No cuts? )

[Anonymous Coward]

No really, thanks... I hate waiting till the end to find out what happens anyway.



prick.

Re:THANKS FOR THE SPOILER (Re:No cuts? )

[St. Arbirix]

As if it had any bearing on the storyline...

It's not like it's Wizard of Oz and I'm telling you the Wizard is a man behind a curtain, it's more like finding out the Emerald City is actually a blueish colour.

poor robots

[kahei]

I think the real significance of the line you quote is that this is the only time in the movie anyone feels sorry for all the robots that get killed. A point that is lost in the 'translated' version.

Opinions differ.

[OmniGeek]

I, for one, would say that Spirited Away stands up well to comparison with Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. I see nothing to object to in the plotting and dialogue. Ultimately, it's all subjective. Of course, as Nessus said, sanity is defined by majority opinion; if that means I'm insane, I don't suffer from insanity, I REVEL in it. ;-)

A word about cuts

[OmniGeek]

You might be unaware that the studio is NOT the only one cutting films that are distributed. Movie houses, TV stations, private exhibitors, or anyone who gets their mitts on a physical print of a film may go snip-snip at it, generally without authorization, often to make it fit a predetermined time slot or to accommodate the prudery and prejudices of a target market (to say nothing of the sawbones surgery done to fit TV broadcast time slots; I suspect the networks do that). There is also the case where the film breaks and must be spliced, but that causes much less of a gap.

This phenomenon is probably less common now with digitally-distributed films, but it's definitely not uncommon to find that some goon who was previously showing the print you get when you rent a film for public performance has "edited" it, especially in the case of lesser-known or older films.

Remember the hoopla aboout restoring classic films where the master no longer exists? Much of that work consists of comparing various prints (that have been cut by various fools) to assemble a single complete print that's not missing anything, and selecting the least-damaged print to serve as the new master for each scene.