Open Source AJAX Webmail

scrasher writes "It seems AJAX webmail is all the craze. Right on the heels of both Microsoft and Yahoo launching beta versions of their new AJAX webmail clients, an Open Source startup RoundCube has released an alpha of a GPLed AJAX webmail client. While there are still many features missing (like search!), the demo they have is completely cross-browser compliant and overall very impressive."

Comments

Foldername length patch.

[suso]

For anyone who wants this fix, I made a q&d change to the folder listing code so that it truncates long folder names in the middle so that they don't run over and screw up your display. I submitted this patch to the author a month ago, but it hasn't made it into the trunk yet I guess.

http://suso.suso.org/programs/roundcube/

Roundcube is pretty neat, but it still has some bugs. The IMAP client caches everything so that it is faster on subsequent tries, but on large mailboxes it can be a real pain the first time. It makes for a good program to hack on though. Its just what I've been looking for to replace squirrelmail on suso.org.

Re:Foldername length patch.

[mottie]

I have just installed it for the first time, but it appears that the caching portion is completely optional.
 
// enable caching of messages and mailbox data in the local database.
// this is recommended if the IMAP server does not run on the same machine

$rcmail_config['enable_caching'] = FALSE;

Zimbra

[Cally]

There's also the Zimbra product, which is open source. It's on my list to eval - the Flash demo (see the webpage) looks pretty slick.

Ajax is the first genuinely new thing I can think of this century.

Re:Zimbra

[Capt James McCarthy]

Ajax is not a technology in itself, but a term that refers to the use of a group of technologies together. (wikipedia.org)

Re:Zimbra

[ExKoopaTroopa]

except that is just another fancy name for a bundle of not so recent technologies

Re:Zimbra

[Red Flayer]

"Ajax is the first genuinely new thing I can think of this century."

Wow, that's a hell of a thinking block... I've managed to have several new ideas since 1999. :)



"Quick, better to live or die, once and for all, than die by inches, slowly crushed to death--helpless against the hulls in the bloody press--by far inferior men!"

Telamonian Ajax, The Iliad, Homer

Re:Zimbra

[fak3r]

Zimbra is pretty much full featured, and does allot more (AJAX wise and otherwise) than Roundcube. Give it a look too. Having said that, Roundcube is basically one person, and it's a very impressive project in that regards; nice clean UI, and a somewhat new way to deal with 'webmail'. I see Zimbra as being a great comapany (all stuff is 'ZPL' btw) but Roundcube should attract some devs now, and I expect it to be a real nice 'light' solution for us home mailserver folks.

Re:Zimbra

[Wornstrom]

I would recommend that you use a system that has some horsepower. I installed Zimbra on a p4 3.0 Ghz HT 1GB ram box (my workstation), and experienced some heavy load. Not only that but it takes the liberty of rewriting your firewall ruleset, so I wouldn't use an existing system without being prepared for service / connectivity interruptions (linux gateway/firewalls). Sure, it is still in beta, so I will give it that excuse, I couldn't imagine releasing the horde on it for production use yet. If this one doesn't require all sorts of backends, I might give it a try.

Re:Zimbra

[porneL]

Ajax is the first genuinely new thing I can think of this century.

AJAX is not a new thing. It's new name for technologies of last century. Read Hixie's post about how old and inappropriately named AJAX is.

Re:Zimbra

[qray]

New? I remember my grandmother using it clean her sink.
--
Q

Re:Zimbra

[hey]

Good luck changing the name of AJAX to REST.

Re:Zimbra

[AvitarX]

yeah, Zimbra is a collaborative suite, presumably a replacement for another one.

Roundcube is a nice client for IMAP email access that leaves everything in tact (probably a lot lower requirements too).

Re:Zimbra

[Red Flayer]

Actually, a new century starts every instant in time.

And "since 1999" refers to 2000 to the present, not 1999 to the present.

I'm fully aware that the first century did not start in year 0, but use of 1999 rather than 2000 creates a better mental separation from the present, which is better for comedic purposes.

Re:Zimbra

[fak3r]

right, so I see it like this:

RoundCube = Squirrelmail = Horde != Zimbra = Hula Project = OpenExchange = Exchange

Ok I'm oversimplifying it, but that's how I'm thinking of the relation of the various projects now.

Re:Zimbra

[Matt Perry]

no-one was really using it until Google Maps first came along

Not true at all. A lot of people were using it. However, it didn't land on a lot of developers radar until Google started using it for projects like Maps, GMail, and Google Suggest. For a majority of developers that was their first exposure to it and that's when it hit the mainstream.

Re:Zimbra

[ceejayoz]

As the AC says, XMLHttpRequest was in Microsft's Exchange webmail in the late '90s. Note, for example, this September 1999 article that mentions XMLHttpRequest in IE5.

Re:Zimbra

[Thundersnatch]

Microsoft Outlook Web Access, included with Exchange Server, is widely recognized to be the first real AJAX application. The 2000 version was the first browser app I every used that made me say "wow, how the hell did they do that?". No Java applet or ActiveX, but it felt like a real, usable desktop application. Context menus and everything, with few full-page refreshes.

Google has done quite a bit to elevate the profile of AJAX with the Slashdot crowd, but other people were definitely "really using it" long before Google.

not a business startup

[jbellis]

When you stay "startup," it makes people think they're trying to start a business around this. They're not, at least not from what I read. It's just one guy's project on sourceforge.

Cross-browser?

[dascandy]

The big question is: Does it run on Lynx and Links?

Re:Cross-browser?

[narrowhouse]

Actually that is a good question. AJAX is great but it needs to gracefully fall back to solid useable HTML for clients that can't handle javascript or whatever.

Re:Cross-browser?

[Princeofcups]

> Actually that is a good question. AJAX is great but it needs to gracefully fall back to solid useable HTML for clients that can't handle
> javascript or whatever.

  And they also need to fall back to printed paper for people without computers. And spoken word for people who can't read.

Javascript is an accepted WWW standard. There is no reason for any app developer to not use javascript to his heart's content.

jfs

Re:Cross-browser?

[SillyNickName4me]

Ever read this thingy? Or any of the other publications from this w3c thing?
They pay a lot of attention to ensuring things keep working, and dgrade in a nice gracefull way instead of just borking.

And yes, in 2005 there are still quite a few relevant browsers that do not support JS, and which would be extremely usable with a webmail application still. This concerns virtually all browsers on handheld devices.

Re:Cross-browser?

[booch]

Javascript is an accepted WWW standard. There is no reason for any app developer to not use javascript to his heart's content.

That's ridiculous. JavaScript may be a standard, but that doesn't mean that you should expect every user's browser to support it. How about blind people using screen-reader? How about search engines? Don't you want them to be able to read your page? (Well, perhaps not if it's personal email sitting behind a login screen.)

And may I remind you that the whole basis of AJAX - XMLHttpRequest - is NOT a standard. Don't you want your site to work on all the new cell phones coming out that a lot of people will soon be using to browse the web and read email? How about hand-held devices?

Gracefully degrading is a best practice for a lot of good reasons. And frankly, it's not that difficult, if you apply the principles of unobtrusive JavaScript.

One comment and slashdotted!

[sootman]

A new record?

Free, open-source AJAX webmail--it seems we've discovered the secret formula to get slashdotters to read articles!

Re:One comment and slashdotted!

[sootman]

Ack! The one time I'm around early enough to make a comment like that and it turns out it's not down. (Or if it was, they recovered quickly.) In any case, it looks great. And being MySQL-based, the big missing feature--search--should be pretty easy to add. In fact, all I've ever wanted was an SQL query window I can run against my email--`select * from inbox where (sender='mom' or sender='dad') and date>20041225 and date20041230 and subject like '%party%'`

Re:One comment and slashdotted!

[houston_pt]

If you have a Gmail account, next to the search buttons there's the "Show search options" link that opens a query form that does all that and some more :) If you don't have a Gmail account I can give you one ;)

Re:One comment and slashdotted!

[jallen02]

This is where having an understand of where IMAP, SMTP, and POP3 are very helpful. MySQL is only used for storing preferences and very limited amounts of data relating to user specific settings in RoundCube. The actual mail retrieval and sotrage is all handled via IMAP. This means that this program is really nothing more a stand alone mail client, only as a web application. SMTP pushes mail around. It is then stored somewhere. On Unix type systems that is typically maildir or the mbox format. Then IMAP and POP3 (independent of SMTP) look at, and modify, the maildir or mbox stores.

So MTA = transfering mail. SMTP strictly moves mail around. I don't know of many MTAs that use SQL for mail storage, though I am sure people have implemented them. RoundCube is a client and would start at the very top of a digram where the user is at the top and their phisycally stored mail is at the bottom.

Mail Client --> IMAP/Pop3 --> mbox/maildir

In the setup I manage we have Postfix using a MySQL database for all mailbox configuration. We use courier IMAP which reads the exact same database to get the configuration data. IMAP then goes and reads the actual mail stored in Maildir format. So the SQL database is an important part of storing routing information for email. It is not, yet, used to store the actual messages. Though I suppose a relational data store for an MTA would make for an interesting project. So we really have two separate databases. One that IMAP and Postfix use for handling mail account creation and aliasing and one for RoundCube preferences. I actually set RoundCube up. It is VERY basic, but what is there works reasonably well. Its a nifty project to play around with I imagine.

Jeremy

Not all browsers supported

[gitana]

Unfortunatly, I can not try the demo because the mac specific Mozilla browser - Camino- is not supported. I may be able to spoof my browser and access the mail client without any problems but isnt that what we are trying to get away from?

Re:Not all browsers supported

[Anonymous Coward]

Camio works I just tried the demo using it. It was very slow but worked.

Irony

[karvind]

Does anyone else find it ironic ? The contact email address is : roundcube@AJAXgmail.comREMOVEAJAX

Roundcube as extensible as Squirrelmail?

[slashfun]

This really looks cool, but is it as extensible as Squirrelmail?

We have found that we can extend Squirrelmail to present a very lite webmail presence, yet keep the functionality simple so that basic features will still work in a syncronized fashion with a heavy remote client (IMAPS).

Roundcube still needs some kind of anti-spam integration and automated signup routines, but we will certainly keep an eye on it.

Re:Buggy

[Anonymous Coward]

In the demo, if you click on a message in the inbox it gets selected. How TF do you read it?

Double click.

It's not so much buggy as it needs some serious HCI help. Web applications should NEVER require double clicks, and even in regular applications they should be used only in very specific circumstances.

On the bright side, the application is very pretty. (Which is more than can be said for other OSS Webmail like SquirrelMail.)

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[MankyD]

"AJAX" is a retarded and non-sensical name made up by a consulting company who wanted to make themselves sound important. I can't believe you people are falling for it.

And what would your rather we call it? And what magical consulting company is this? If they've done such a good job making themselves sound important then certainly you must be able to come up with their name off the top of your head. (oh wait, you didn't include their name in your post :P)

No one is "falling" for anything. It's a name that works for a useful technology.

AJAX Security

[webappsec]

AJAX Security

Re:AJAX Security

[booch]

First of all, I don't see much security-related content on that site. Second, the issues that are raised all seem to be issues in non-AJAX web development as well.

For example, in AJAX Considered Harmful, using HTTP GETs to change state is a well-known no-no. (Google Accelerator recently broke some sites that violate this principle, but it's been known since at least HTTP 1.0 times that infrastructure would break sites that were coded incorrectly.) But XMLHttpRequest supports POSTs (and PUT, and probably all the rest). It also supports HTTPS.

As far as stealing content, that can be addressed (well enough for 95% of cases) by checking the Referer field. (I think that should work -- I wasn't able to find any documentation whether the browsers add/override that header when submitting XMLHttpRequests, like they should.) Although the random session token he suggests is a pretty good solution as well.

what communik8r?

[Anonymous Coward]

communik8r beat yahoo, hotmail and roundcube with the idea. Sadly it looks like it has stalled. It shows a lot of promise when I played with it, but it was way too unstable for production.

Call me old fashioned...

[WhoDey]

...but am I the only one who still prefers pine?

Re:Call me old fashioned...

[TCM]

You misspelled Mutt.

HTH. HAND.

Re:Call me old fashioned...

[El_Muerte_TDS]

I prefer MUTT http://www.mutt.org/
And I use Zoe to search through my mail (not that it happens that often), all I need is Zoe inside my MUTT

Installed! Looks nice thus far...

[nuxx]

I just installed it, and it seems pretty slick thus far. I think they still have a few things to add beyond search, namely:

- Server-side sorting so that all messages don't need to be downloaded in order to view, say, the 15 newest.
- Special folder support, such as Junk, Sent, Trash, etc. Currently send mail just goes off into the ether.

Other than that, I'm pretty impressed. I personally currently use Squirrelmail for my webmail needs, but it feels a bit clunky. If they can meet Squirrelmail's features (at a minimum) I can see this being used all over the place. I find the use of a DB for things like user/session/whatever management to be a bit odd, but at least actual files don't have to be used then.

Re:Installed! Looks nice thus far...

[rabel]

I haven't yet installed it, but it sure looks slick. Damn, and the installation requirements are just this simple. 1. Decompress and put this folder somewhere inside your document root 2. Make shure that the following directories are writable by the webserver - /temp - /logs 3. Create a new database and a database user for RoundCube 4. Create database tables using the queries in file 'SQL/*.initial.sql' 5. Modify the files in config/* to suit your local environment 6. Done!

Installed it, easy install, not bad

[Scoth]

Went ahead and tried it out, it's not bad looking at all. Has a way to go to replace some of the other webmail clients I've used (currently using squirrelmail on my server. Nice, simple, straightforward) but the install was quick and easy and it does look pretty. Might could use a howto on the mysql part for newbs, but I didn't have any trouble and I'm still pretty new to mysql myself. Does seem a bit slow on low-bandwidth servers like mine, but might be my fault.

Definitely keeping an eye on this, though. I'd not mind a friendlier webmail interface.

Re:Installed it, easy install, not bad

[hrbrmstr]

I have to agree. It took about 3 minutes to get up and running after the download on my linux box. Those just starting out will probably need a bit more time. A setup program would be in order, either via browser or just on the command-line.

Definitely more eye candy than SquirrelMail - www.squirrelmail.org - (which hasn't had a real update in how long?), but the initial hit on the IMAP server did go quite slowly. I'm running UW IMAP and it looks like the RoundCube backend doesn't know enough (not a dig at all) to limit the scope of the traversal (since it goes through every file and folder in my local account and then identifies which files/folders contain mailboxes).

No configurable refresh interval (from the GUI, anyway). Login options need to be more site-customizable (yes, it's OSS, so I could write it and contribute, thank you for asking). Didn't try it on a PDA, but it should also be able to work somewhat on a limited platform (SquirrelMail is quite functional on a PocketPC browser).

It writes files to local directories, and I didn't do a check to see if they are easily moved (i.e. out of the web docs tree). .htaccess files are nice, and all, but I'd rather they not be near a bot or a malicious moron at all. Adding an option to log to a DB as well (or just to a DB) would be nice.

It doesn't look like global address books are available.

And, it defaults the "FROM" to be you@whatever-you-entered-for-your-imap-server.thin g. Gak.

Overall, I'm really impressed with it and I, too, will definitely be keeping an eye on future releases. I'll be keeping SquirrelMail for the time being, tho.

pine + screen

[Dlugar]

I use pine + screen for 99% of my email needs. Works great! Long lasting taste satisfaction. (And I have squirrelmail installed for the rare occasion that [a] I'm on a computer that doesn't have ssh, or [b] I want to view an attachment.)

Dlugar

AJA not AJAX

[minddog]

Whats commonly confused in the community, if there is no client-side xsl transformations using the browser, their is still interface load. This is not a true AJAX imap client, it is an AJA, and the xml is rendered server-side to xhtml standards.

If you are interested in a pure implementation that has been around longer thats true ajax, check out http://www.communik8r.org/

List of AJAX Webmail clients?

[Nate Fox]

Anyone got a somewhat comprehensive list of AJAX Webmail packages? Doesnt have to be only OSS.

Re:List of AJAX Webmail clients?

[blackhaze]

@Mail is worth a mention - @Mail - This includes various Ajax , and also a kick-ass XUL interface for Mozilla.

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Goaway]

And what would your rather we call it?

How about "Javascript", since that's all it is?

And what magical consulting company is this?

Adaptive Path, and here's the original Slashdot article where they started the whole thing:
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/0 2/23/1859222

It's a name that works for a useful technology.

It's technology that already had a name and doesn't need a new one.

1 reason : Handheld

[DrYak]

There is no reason for any app developer to not use javascript to his heart's content.

Ultra-light hand held clients.
Like a lot of other people, I do use my Palm to surf the web.
Some browser for Palm don't have all the bells and whistle like full Javascript etc.

For some application, like E-Mails, there's (thankfully) still alternate ways to use content that are handheld friendly : E-Mail POP/IMAP software.
But there other application that are only accessible from the website, like train timetables. And if the website is "Best viewed with Explorer, Optimized for 1024x768", or only tested against mainstrem browsers (FireFox, Safari, IE), you're out-of-luck when you need to quickly check when you next train arrives. (I have luck, our nationnal train company has a light-browser friendly website).

alt tags

[mottie]

another thing it's missing is alt tags. it has a bunch of pretty buttons at the bottom of the screen, but i have no idea what any of them do. i'm guessing one of them is the logout button (as i can't seem to find one) but i have no idea.

Too Many Users!

[cbovasso]

From the Demo:

Too many users!
Please check back later!



I love how simple it is to navigate! The features leave something to be desired though. Hey check me out, I just wrote a CNet review!

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Gigs]

How about "Javascript", since that's all it is?
It's technology that already had a name and doesn't need a new one.

And why not call P2P FTP cause thats what it is...
And IM is just email...
And cars are really just horseless carriages...

Now speakin of horses, get off the high one you are on and move on.
If you don't like ajax go ahead and call it Javascript XMLHttpRequest objects or whatever floats your large water displacing transportation vessel (Boat for those that can stand short easy to use references to new techology!).

We all know that you've been using it since dipers were nothing more that squares of cloth and only men were allowed to use computers, and you can continue living life knowing you are superior to the rest of us that call it Ajax.

Now now... don't cry.. heres a Kleenex... I mean facial tissue too dry your eyes.

Kerio's had this for a while now...

[jerkychew]

Kerio MailServer is a nice Exchange replacement that runs on Linux and Mac OS X. It has a really nice AJAX webmail app that is a feasible replacement for a desktop app. It's not free, but it is cheap, and it's not Exchange :-)

Nice to see

[ndansmith]

This makes me wonder (quite on the other side of the coin) if Google will ever sell a stipped down version of Gmail for deployment on private systems. I know I would love to secure a gmail-type AJAX mail client. Luckily now it looks like that will happen for free before too long. Still, I think there is a lot of money to be made for Gogle if they sell the software.

Re:But can it do grouped CONVERSATIONS like gmail?

[CaptainTux]

Gmail has everyone beaten with its conversation grouping feature.

I've never understood what the big deal is about conversation grouping was and why other mail clients found it so difficult to implement. Conversation grouping is one of the easiest things to implement and it should be considered a bare minimum for mail clients. We're talking a few hundred lines of code at most to implement the feature. Why is it so hard? Yahoo? Hotmail? Yep, I'm talking to you.

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Goaway]

What is wrong with calling it AJAX instead of Javascript?

Why make up new words when old ones exist and have the same meaning? There's nothing to be gained, and it only sows confusion and fragments language. And in this case, the word "Ajax" is, on top of it all, a lame marketing attempt.

Nothing. If anything, 'Javascript' has problems, because the word 'script' -- as in script kiddies -- has negative connotations. Add on 'Java' and either your talking about Indonesia, which makes people think of outsourcing (or will, in the next decade), or you're talking about coffee -- and do we really need people associating a useful tech with video game pron mods?

Don't be intentionally daft. You're just insulting everyone's intelligence.

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Goaway]

Are the two terms absolutely equivalent?

As near as I can tell, yes. And, (if you need an argument from authority here to know I'm not just talking out of my ass) I've written apps that would fall under the term "AJAX", such as this:

http://wakaba.c3.cx/desktop-test/desktop.pl (login/pw is test/test)

Sarcasm. Pointing out how ridiculous your argument is by doing the same to the opposite position. I know /.ers often have trouble with non-literal interpretation (myself included), but really... wasn't it obvious?

Yes, far too obvious. Which is why I said you were intentionally daft, and didn't just call you an idiot. Sarcasm is no substitute for insight. Please try to think up and present actual arguments in the future.

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Goaway]

Dude, it was an actual argument, the argument being that your reason for disliking new names for things is also ridiculous.

Maybe that's what you thought, but it sure wasn't what you wrote. You wrote a bunch of ironic gibberish. If you want to have an argument, then state your opinion, and don't act like a retard.

Perhaps you think calling someone daft or an idiot construes an argument, since that is how you addressed my point?

You refused to present your point, and I refused to second-guess what you wanted to say.

Re:AJAX is a retarded term

[Goaway]

Reread my first post. I most definitely made a point, in my very first sentences.

OK.

What is wrong with calling it AJAX instead of Javascript?

Nothing. If anything, 'Javascript' has problems, because the word 'script' -- as in script kiddies -- has negative connotations. Add on 'Java' and either your talking about Indonesia, which makes people think of outsourcing (or will, in the next decade), or you're talking about coffee -- and do we really need people associating a useful tech with video game pron mods?

You can call it whatever you like (you can call it Fungrifoo, if you like, in your notes to yourself) -- but whatever name dominates mindshare is the one I'll use when communicating with others about it.

A contentless first sentence, a paragraph of nonsense, which is what I was referring to, and an argument about "dominating mindshare". I must confess to not knowing what this means, but I'm guessing you mean "whatever name everybody else uses". That would be (since I see you like the latin-named fallacies) argumentum ad numerum, "if a lot of people believe it, it must be right!"

And, BTW, an ad hominem comment is far worse than using sarcasm to illustrate a point...

Who's using ad hominems? I've merely told you not to act stupid when you aren't. This is a personal attack now?