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CIA Investing in Modular Green Energy
Paladin144 writes "The CIA's venture capital arm, In-Q-Tel, has announced a strategic development agreement with SkyBuilt Power Inc. The CIA seems to be interested in SkyBuilt's new Mobile Power Station, which can be parachuted into remote locations and be up and running in a few hours with only 2 people needed to set it up. The MPS harnesses both solar and wind power and is capable of up to 150 kilowatts of electricity. The devices uses off-the-shelf components and easily swappable parts to be cost-effective."
Is that similar to the free radical energy reverse-engineered from the spacecraft that crashed at Roswell?
Now all they need to figure out is how to get this solar/wind power working underwater and our sharks (dolphins?) really will have freakin' lasers! Wait...
Vandemar.org
I hope the CIA can use this green energy to help overthrow governments of oil-rich countries. Here we come, Venezuela!
The devastation in New Orleans and Gulfport, MS would have been an ideal testing location for these devices. And it could have been very helpful at the same time. If they didn't do well, you can just say they were "experimental". If they worked out, then you got your testing done for next to nothing. Either way it was a win for the CIA's tech firm and the population in the affected areas.
I guess FEMA never thought about asking the CIA for help, they didn't ask anyone else either it seems!
Modular green energy is made out of people!! PEEEEEOPPPPLLLLLLLEEEE!!!
As these devices improve, the cost will most likely decrease, thus making them suitable for deployment in homes and buildings all over. Such activities would no doubt cause financial problems for the existing energy providers. Considering the clout of such businesses, there is always the chance of DMCA-esqe legislation being passed to limit this technology. Indeed, let's hope that these developments are not stifled by existing energy firms.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I don't get it. Why does the energy have to be green? Why can't it be orange energy with purple stripes?
This sig is neither interesting, nor humorous. Including meta-humor.
On the other... does it REALLY have to be the CIA?
Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
Is it soylent green energy? Is it made from people?
I always mention to follow co-workers that we need to make green power available cheaply for everyone. Imagine each house with several mini wind turbines on the roof and the back roof with solar panels (to not take away from curb apeal :). Wouldn't it be great to run the AC as much as you want and not worrying the cost?
So how much will these cost?
KeepTrackOfIt.com - Find the lowest gas prices in your area graphically
that I could walk into Home Depot and pick up the things required to build one of these suckers or do you mean easy for the CIA to procure? What secrets does the CIA have in finding someone to help you at Home Depot?
when they ban enctryption only criminals wi$21*J *#JF$%!@#$':
Yes... yes... In-Q-Tel, that VC firm sounds very familiar.
Want to know more about them? Go ahead, search google for "In-Q-Tel facebook" without quotes.
Interesting, huh?
This should be pretty interesting. A lot of natural disasters cause major outages which cannot be immediately repaired, and this would be beyond useful in those situations. Also could be a major help with military setups in 3rd world areas or places where we don't have or aren't welcome to use of the existing infrastructure. About time something decent comes along...
"Crime fighters fight crime. Fire fighters fight fire. What do freedom fighters fight?" -George Carlin
OK, I give up. (Slashdot really needs a spelling/grammar checker.)
Does anyone smell something fishy here?
How can _any_ government agency have a "Venture Capital" division, let alone the CIA?
The CIA is can listen in on any conversation without any reason, yet they can create a corporation that 'invests' in other companies?
What is happening to our country?! Dubbya's administration is trying to blur the line between The Government of the People and "Big Business".
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
While SkyBuilt has 140 patent claims on its energy system, most of its individual component parts are widely available.
Isn't this sickening? They piece together crap that anybody can buy, cram it in a shipping container, and claim 140 patents on it.
I'm in the process of building an "energy system" that uses off-the-shelf components as well. Hope I don't infringe on any of their brilliant ideas.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
In-Q-Tel funding is public. The work that they fund isn't classified.
Off-the-shelf means that, while probably not available at Home Depot or Lowes, components for the system are available on the OEM market and hence the final product does not require customized component engineering, with concomitant cost reductions.
Thankfully, there has been building interest in renewables, principally photovoltaics and wind power. At this point, the lifetime cost of a wind power installation (of size greater than, say, 1 MW) is on par or even less than traditional energies like gas and coal-fired plants. Meanwhile, the market cost of 20% silicon-based solar cells is down to something like $3-4/W, depending on how the market for semiconductor-grade silicon goes.
One of the major setbacks in the deployment of such energy is the physical infrastructure in the capital cost. While the solar cells are becoming rather cheap, the structure to support/protect them, and the electronics to interface them with the grid cost at least as much. In both the case of wind and solar, since there is low maintenance and basically no consumables, the lifetime cost of and installation is 90% upfront capital cost. For a coal or gas fired plant, or nuclear, the upfront capital cost is something like 40% of the total cost of running the plant over its lifetime, while maintenance and the cost of consumables take up the rest.
The end result is that people balk at the huge upfront costs of renewable power installations, even though the lifetime costs are nowadays comparable with traditional electrical power generation facilities. However, there are two situations that can give renewables an edge. The first we are already experiencing: the cost of consumables and maintenance are on the rise. Natural gas costs are increasing, coal-fired plants have to run cleaner, and nuclear is an ever-increasing headache.
The second, and more relevant, situation that favors renewables (and the point of TFA), is that there are some situations where one really, really needs electrical power, and is faced either with the choice of an expensive installation cost for renewable power, or a really expensive cost for shipping in the consumable fuel (and someone who can work the power generator itself, which ain't as easy as it sounds). In the case of remote power generation (for relay stations on the side of a mountain, for instance), in very rural areas with little or no road access (developing nations like Afghanistan), or in a disaster situtation where the usual delivery infrastructure has completely gone to hell, the scales tip away from things like petroleum, gas, and coal fired generators and squarely into the arena of renewables.
What these guys are doing is demonstrating that not only is the technology mature enough for long duration, high capacity, low maintenance remote power generation, but that it is rugged enough to be deployed anywhere, anytime, where it is needed. Bravo!
How many square feet of solar panels, and how many wind-turbines, are need to produce an *average* output of 150 KW? When a blurb says 'up to', I wonder what's the 'down to'.
Protecting the environment while you are electro-torturing terrorists for information at the same time. That's how the CIA butters up Democrats and Republicans during the budget hearings. A little something for both, green and mean.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
There is no way that a 10x40 ft container is going to produce 150kW of continuous power (for the uses they envision, it would have to be continuous).
... larger than the statue of liberty) under more ordinary conditions, like in Iraq.
150kW using photovoltics requires about 1000 sq metres of space in the middle of the desert at high noon. You'll need about 4000-5000 sq metres of space and a massive battery system to deliver 150kW day and night with photovoltics (you can get away with as little as half the space if you spring for more efficient panels, but the price skyrockets and such panels are generally reserved for spacecraft and solar racecars and the likes).
a 150kW wind turbine is huge, and 2 people aren't going to be able to build the foundation (necessary to keep a several hundred foot propeller from getting ripped away) on a moment's notice and without heavy machinery (a cement truck and a crane at the least). Once again, if you want 24/7 power, you'll have to install around a 450kW turbine in the best of conditions (say, on a mountain ridge), or as much as a 1.5MW turbine (about the largest built
And let's not even get into the cost assuming this was true. Even without the standard military surcharge, photovoltics is about the most expensive renewable source of energy around and I couldn't even think of stuffing a statue of liberty sized wind generator into a standard packing crate and having it assembled by two people.
I also couldn't envision a battery system capable of storing 2-4MWh (megawatt-hours) of juice and not bringing the helicopter or truck over its weight limit. That's like 2,000 heavy duty car batteries (No way you're going to use anything pricier than lead-acid for such a large battery). So that's around 60,000 to 100,000 pounds of weight. Too heavy for a truck, although a heavy bomber or cargo plane could carry the load. The parachute would be a sight to be seen to slow that lead weight on its way down.
And lastly, what about the cooling tower and the inverters and the transformers. Such a large plant will need some heavy duty electrical equipment to deliver consistant frequency and voltage (assuming it gives out standard 110/220 volts, 50/60 Hz alternating current).
As far as the patents go, assuming they really do have 180 relevent patents (at $30,000 a pop, I would be a little suprised), they're just an indicator of how much you paid your attorneys. Just because you have a patent doesn't mean it works or is even physically possible.
If you live in the right place, wind power is close to being economical.
Solar is still kind of pricy. If you buy an extra-big system, sign up for time-of-day billing, and arrange to sell power back to the utility, you can do pretty well. The buy in is pretty big . . . tens of thousands.
BUT . . .
*B*U*T* . . .
Don't think of wind and solar as an alternative to the grid. Think of them as a backup. An alternative to a noisy, smelly generator.
A modest system that could (for example) power your refrigerator, a small TV, a few lights, and charge batteries for various items, would turn a days-long power outage from a miserable mess to a tolerable nuiscance. Such a system might be a couple of thousand.
(You are better off using gas, wood, etc. for heating and cooking in emergency circumstances. A solar system [heh] that could run your electric range would be formidable.)
(Oh . . . and A/C? Right out. VERY current-hungry. You'd need a huge set-up for that. But you could run exhaust fans and such.)
Stefan
clearly your statements are confirmed by the fact that the skybuilt website claims it can also run on diesel and other forms of fuel. it even depicts a wind turbine so flimsy it wouldnt have the juice to power a blender (no pun intended), so it must be using diesel to get such an output, and then, is not clean energy anymore.
Oh the perks of marketing.
"The quality of life is inversely proportional to the number of keys on your keyring."
Why exactly DOES the CIA need a "venture capital arm"? When government agencies favor a particular business, it is treason against the people. When a govenment agency OWNS a business, it's...well...I'm sure you can come up with some inflammitory word. P.S. Believe it or not, but the anti-bot image I had to type in was "levying". Good show.
It works like this:
- Two agents get dropped into Iran and set up this generator.
- The generator doesn't create 150 kilowatts right away!
- The turbine+solar power operates a drill and hose contraption that burrows straight into the ground, and a suction pump at ground level.
- The drill hits oil, the pump sucks it out through the hose and into a tank.
- NOW the generator produces 150 kilowatts.
What's the value of this, you ask? Easy:
- US Secretary of State presents aerial photos of these generators to the UN, mistakenly labelled mobile nuke plants (oops, that crazy Bolton and his antics).
- PROFIT!!! (for Halliburton, of course)
No, really. And while you're at it, can you make it informative too?
This sig is neither interesting, nor humorous. Including meta-humor.
Wait, the feds can file patents? The federal government can't copyright things---consider the CIA World Factbook, released into the public domain each year. So why can they patent things? Wouldn't the same rationale apply?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Nice analysis. Looking at their website it says that it modular and can put out between 1kw and 50kw (with additional modules). Also can be augmented with generators and such. It really just looks like a standard shipping container with some solar panels on brackets and a wind generator. I'm sure it has a battery bank as well. It doesn't seem novel, just a nice ruggidized turn-key package. I wonder how much $$$ skybuilt has contributed to political campains or lobbyists. Then again, they may have just gotten started with the DoD wishbook and an SBIR program. You might be suprised at how much $$$ the DoD will put out if you submit a plausible proposal in response to their wishbook. But now I'm in tinfoil hat territory.
Blah blah blah... who cares about the CIA. Can I buy one? That's more than enough renewable energy to run my house off of.
Jeremy Logan's Website.
In-Q-Tel isn't exactly "pretending not to be part of the CIA". Check out their website
"Our mission is to deliver leading edge technologies to the CIA and the Intelligence Community"
It's right there on the front page. In-Q-Tel isn't exactly covert.
I'll be recording the proceedings of a week-long conference on the tiny island of Maevo in Vanuatu at the start of next month. The place is largely undeveloped and power is a major concern of mine.
A friend of mine and I have hacked together a little power kit that can be charged with a solar panel or a generator, and provide enough energy for at least a laptop and a few small peripherals, but I can't tell you how cool it would be to be able to power the entire conference with one of these things - especially the laser-guided parachute drop part. The chicks would love that. 8^)
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
so... why isn't this being parachuted into every state in the union now? Why are we still using fossil fuel? We have tons of sunshine here in so cal, put it to better use than giving people a tan. >.
please... let me sleep... a little more... yay, no longer annonmyous coward.
It doesn't say it MUST be parachuted.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
mining areas of the Web inaccessible to ordinary search engines
Apparently In-q-tel is currently interested in searching technologies which ignore robots.txt. http://www.in-q-tel.com/tech/sd.html/
"The devices uses off-the-shelf components and easily swappable parts to be cost-effective." Ddunno about you guys but the gov't\cia being involved in something that is easy and cost afective sounds too good to be true.
"all i wanted was a pepsi..."
There is no way that a 10x40 ft container is going to produce 150kW of continuous power (for the uses they envision, it would have to be continuous).
It fits into a shipping container for transport. When you set it up, it takes up more land area. You know the ads: "Some assembly required."
Umm, can someone explain how and why the Central Intelligence Agency has Venture Capital? ...or if they just contribute toward VC, how and why is this legal?
Looked up the article. The picture looked a lot like a solar powered calibration system that some colleagues and I set up in the Pampas of Argentina.
http://casab.physics.utah.edu/clf
This is either a typo or mistake of some sort. According to SkyBuilt's website (www.skybuilt.com), the device isn't capable of anywhere NEAR 150kW of power.
"SkyBuilt Power® is your premier source for portable, modular, quick assembly, durable, solar, wind, and other distributed power--from 0.5 kW to 50 kW or more."
Yeah. That sounds about right.
Basically its just a shipping container with solar cells or small wind turbines tacked on the sides. Perhaps they did something fancy with the power conditioning or batery circuitry, which COULD make it interesting . . . but ony marginally so. The idea is that you use the inside of the container as a little office or listening post/etc, and it generates its own power. Or it can "use diesel, propane, natural gas or gasoline-powered generators" according to their info, which would seem to defeat the point. Either way I'm not impressed.
Why am I seeing images of a laptop with a photoshopped 2TB "Quantum Memory Unit" in my mind?
Mod parent up - please
I love the battery backup (inside) feature ...
A 1.5MW windmill is massive. You have never seen a 10MW wind turbine, none exist. The largest (larger than the statue of liberty) generate 4.5MW. You are probably thinking 10kW. 150kW is a LOT of power from wind or solar. There is simply no way a system that could fit into a shipping container could generate that kind of power unless it includes a large diesel generator.
Might be 150KW PEAK, but their site only claims 50kw PEAK.
Units START at 1KW, easily setup by 2 people & shipped in a standard container. Optional capacity adds size & setup complexity
http://www.skybuilt.com/more.htm
Umm.....
Haven't they had these things in space for awhile......
Oh yeah, in space, they didn't need the two guys to set up the reflectors.
Why not use waves or earthquake action to generate energy......use Mother Nature against herself!
(no I am not joking)
Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
I did an exclusive interview with SkyBuilt President & CEO, Dave Muchow. The story is posted here: http://pesn.com/2005/10/20/9600192_SkyBuilt_Plop_a nd_Go/
Here is an excerpt:
Muchow said that his inspiration and model in forming the company was the laptop computer, with its plug-and-play versatility of components, from the chips to the hardware and the peripherals. The open architecture enables a mixing and matching of components to suit the individual user so that they don't have more than they need, and they can just add on what they might be missing.
Apply that now to renewable energy systems. That is what SkyBuilt is all about, and has been tackling since 2002 when they started. That is the essence of the 140 claims they have filed in their patent applications.
They want to be the Dell of renewable energy systems.
"We are the world's first plug-and-play, open architecture, mobile renewable power system," said Muchow.
Call them up, tell them your needs, and they pull together a package based on their wide experience and network of experts that they can call upon to make an ideal system, providing the highest value, at the lowest price possible.
Tomorrow's news yesterday -- the bleeding, visionary edge.
And you believed them?
I bet the CIA funding is just a cover for the real funding from the Department of Hurricane control.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
This is the same thing they do with Boeing, Lockheed, and whoever else for airplanes, with Motorola for radios, etc. The government isn't making money off of it (not directly, anyway, and not AFAIK, could be wrong).
:-)
Then again, I didn't RTFA. I was just looking for tinfoil hats.
It's like the Freemasons or something, but instead of a secret handshake, you topple a foreign government every time you say hi.
You are dreaming. The Pickering Ontario wind turbine
(largest in north america I think) puts out
1.8 MW - it stands 117 meters tall including the blades
(39 meters long each). It's base is 4 meters in
diameter. It weighs 226 tons.
It happens to be situated right beside the Pickering
Nuclear power generating station, which puts out
about 4000 MW of zero carbon emission power.
Oh heck, toss an MLK in there while you're at it.
Didn't Skybuilt go sentient on August 28, 1999 and attempt to destroy humanity? Where the hells John Connor?
No, in this case, it's not backwards. If the same number of dollars are worth less in the future, you want to spend them now. If you spend them later, you have to spend more of them to get the same effect. This is because -in the context of the investment we are discussing- your view of inflation too limited. Go back and read the post you are replying to. The rate of increase in the cost of oil has far outpaced the overall inflation rate. You have to take that into account, since that will be a significant portion of the money you are spending over the life of the system.
Remember, we are not talking about capital investments in general (your view is probably valid there), we are talking about the choice of making a 90% capital investment up front versus 40% up front with a large part of the remainder being a consumable (oil) that is increasing in cost at a much faster pace than the overall inflation rate. You have to consistantly make very smart investment decisions to beat the rate of increase in the price of oil on top of the overall inflation rate. It's a pretty good bet that demand for oil will increase and the supply will decrease as time goes on.
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
In-Q-Tel sounds to have a similar function for the CIA as DARPA does for the Army - they go out and fund and buy advanced technology for use in operations, or eventual use. It sounds like the CIA is both buying units now and funding further development, typical of how DARPA tends to work.
I think the reporter was just exaggerating the numbers because exaggerating gets eyes to pop, measuring the "150kW" number - which is probably a peak production number, not sustained - as though it were sustained. That does this technology a disservice though, I think, because the blend of concerns here - portability, maintainability, renewable power - is a very smart one.
For example, running Predator drones on pure electric, powered by recharging at this kind of dropped power plant, would be quite the cheap way to monitor a very wide area for a long time. Dropping several would give you redundancy should the enemy eliminate one, and with such a modular deployment that kind of redundancy would be far more cost effective than the money spent now on getting fuel to the reconnaissance front.
the nice people who wrote the SELinux component found in most current Linux distros?
Tech Public Policy stuff
My intent was not to troll, it must just be a slow news day today.
Checkout the photo at the bottom of the article:m l
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1018/p02s01-sten.ht
Then checkout this photo:
http://www.jdhodges.com/photos/8756
Pretty amazing similarities!