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Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea
RocketJeff writes "South Korea's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) has been investigating Microsoft since 2001 for violations of South Korea's antitrust rules. According to a Reuters article, part of a recent Microsoft regulatory filing states 'it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea.' Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
Right...that should convince the South Korean government (and the rest of the world) that they're not an abusive monopoly.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Screw you guys! I'm going home!
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
Only old people use Windows in Korea.
Are you...Are you some kind of genius?
No, ma'am, I'm just a regular Slashdot reader.
"And who will that inconvenience?"
End of lesson. You may press the button.
It's their software, shouldn't they be able to sell it or not sell it where they wish?
I am Homer of Borg. Resistance is Fut.. Mmmmmmmm, Donuts!
South Korea prepares a heart felt thank you letter.
Now that's a death ray!
the headline below this is "Why do people switch to Linux?"
"It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
This is common language in such filings to let investors know of worst case scenarios. For reference, see such filings by SCO on Groklaw.
So no, it's not a threat or a conspiracy
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
"So Korea, why did you switch to Linux?"
Korea: "For a variety of reasons. First, Microsoft violated many of my anti-trust regulations. Second, because it is foreign owned and controlled, even it their home country is one of my allies. Third, TCO is very high. Fourth, I have had many security and quality issues with their Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none operating system. Fifth, Microsoft in response to the charges had threatened to slow or not at all release new products. And finally, because they took their marbles and went home."
"Their marbles?"
Korea: "Yes, I'm very disappointed, they had some very pretty catseyes and peeries."
Man. Are these people lazy, greedy or what? An entire country, with a considerably strong economy that DEC, Pr1me, Unisys, etc. would absolutely have sold their souls for. Microsoft can't have it their way so they're going to pull out. Blimey.A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It would be nice if South Korea were to decide that they didn't need new versions of Windows enough to justify changing their laws.
I don't want to get flamed too hard here, but why not? I know M$ has done some predatory things in the past, but they also do a lot of good and get constantly bashed for it. In an open market why should M$ have to sell their goods in a Country that constantly hassles them? I say let them, this will allow the open source movement to see how well they can step up to the plate as well. Just my $0.02...
This is a clever strategy on the part of Microsoft. The Koreans will be brought to their knees when they realize they need Windows to play Starcraft.
So, if I'm reading it right, Microsoft is saying that they will either not release a "special" version of windows for S. Korea, or that releases will be delayed (presumably to create the modifications required by their Anti-Trust regulations).
This seems perfectly reasonable. They're not even saying they will necessarily pull windows from the market, it might just take them longer to develop the "MS Vista - S. Korea Version" than it would to release the standard. Nothing to see here... more Microsoft non-news.
Plus, if S. Korea is saying "play nice" and they say "no" outright, this is still well within their rights, there is no mandate that they must release software for the masses (In fact, SlashThink directly opposes this). More power to S. Korea if they think they can actually pull that off...
"If you put butter and salt on it, it tastes like salty butter." -Terry Pratchet, on Popcorn.
1) open mouth ...
2) insert shotgun
$$$ profit! $$$
My my microsoft in hot water again... what a supprise! Microsoft has so much bad PR now that they may ass well just release "Windows Virus Edition" and just get it all over with!
Schrodinger's cat- A cat is put in a sealed box. Attached to which is a radioactive nucleus and a canister of poison gas
24. ANTI-SOUTH KOREA PROVISION
Windows may not be used and is not licensed for use in any area of South Korea because they are big doodyheads and we don't like them any more.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
"Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
I hate to rain on the Microsoft bashing parade, but I think it's more like Korea saying: "We don't like your marbles, change them." And Microsoft saying:"Fuck you guys, I like my marbles the way they are, take them as is or I take them home."
Okay, so what's wrong if Microsoft does not want to sell Windows to the Korean market? If I make a product, I don't have to sell it to you.
I think this is a great chance for Linux on the desktop to get a toe hold. All those complaining sound like the people who wish for something, then complain when they get it.
Linux O Muerte!
This would be excellent for us Linux users. The MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) industry sees Korea as a huge market. If they couldn't run their games on Windows, then the game companies would have to port their stuff to Linux to stay in the Korean market. I see this as a win-win all the way around.
-Runz
Oh, please.
MS isn't going to pull out of South Korea. Everyone involved already knows that. The statement is just part of the usual grandstanding that always goes on with this sort of thing. They won't pull out because it's too large a market to just write off, and they don't want another country deciding to go with a competitor nationwide.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
As for all the Linux zealots proclaiming victory, that's just foolishness. There are corporations in Korea that require Microsoft to do their work. Migrating these places would cost millions, if not potentially billions. Think of all the issues. Training users, the actual migration, new support staff, in many cases new hardware. The corporations will never allow it.
Microsoft has not taken the high road, but neither has South Korea. But in this case, it sounds like MS has the advantage.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
SCO is just the picture of normalcy.
Now if only we could get them to pull their products from the US, I would be happy.
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
If I don't want to sell you something, by what moral principle could you compel me to do so anyway?
The "if you're gonna be a shitty customer, I'm gonna ban you from my store" play seems perfectly reaosnable to me.
There are three possible explanations:
1. Microsoft doesn't make a lot of money in South Korea, so they don't care if they're there or not.
2. This is just a stunt better used by an 8 year old rather than a mult-billion dollar software company.
3. Microsoft is desperate to hold on to its domination of the planet earth. After all, when you control over 90% of the desktops on earth there's nowhere to go but down.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
This is the correct response to not getting your way, at least in commerce. When the consumer doesn't like the product as it is and demands that it change before they buy it, the distributor or manufacturer has every right to say "fine, then we won't sell it to you."
S. Korea should invest heavily in Apple and then buy Apple PCs for desktops and use Linux for Servers... that will show Microsoft they aren't the only player on the block. They may have a lot of Marbles, but Apples are perttier and don't break as often when used.... Linux has great Smashers.... they're not pretty but they do the job really well.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
You are right. It is. They have the right to do whatever they want with it. If they don't like the terms of dealing with a country they have the right to limit distribution in that country.
/. ...
Of course this is
-everphilski-
When the Justice Department and other anti-trust parties asked Microsoft to separate IE from the OS, Microsoft said the same thing on withdrawing Windows 98/2000 running out there. Well, back then Desktop Linux wasn't ready to challenge it (remember, OpenOffice.org and Mozilla/Firefox didn't reach 1.0 until 2002).
Now, Microsoft wants to pull the same feat again; should Korean government back down? Hmm, tough call. But if I were to make IT procurement decision for Korean government, it should be a sign that they should NOT upgrade to Windows Vista and instead forming a task force to strengthen desktop Linux development. No government should be prey to a mega-corporation of this type of blackmail. They are already striving to support Firefox/W3C standard in all government websites, maybe it's time to consider go further than that.
How do we get MS to withdraw from the US market? :)
to make Microsoft withdraw from the rest of the world too...
I applaud Microsoft's hard stance on this, and hope that they withdraw all support and future sales of MS products to S. Korea, a powerhouse of a tech economy that's surprised pretty much the entire world in it's post-Korean War explosion into the high-tech scene.
This could be the best thing to happen to the OSS world since Mr. Torvalds and RMS began collaborating on some projects...
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
A monopoly corporation can dictate terms to an entire nation, demanding to be exempt from their laws. Let them do what they want, or they cripple South Korea. Who will stop them?
How Bush fucked us over, #34,451: appointing industry lobby lawyers to the Justice Department who simply ignored the findings of the courts, letting Microsoft go unmolested and whole at the beginning of this numskull's reign. The world will be paying for that for another decade.
Go Linux. It's the pinhole of sunlight you sight at the top of the rubble blocking the collapsed mineshaft entrance. We might make it out of here...
My question is, what is Microsoft's policy on Iran ?u bchannel_id=52&story_id=24881&name=EU+Big+Three+to +consult+on+Ahmadinejad+remarks
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?s
~jennifer.k~
Do what we say and no one gets hurt.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
Yeah right. You know how rampant piracy is there? I wouldn't be surprised to find that MS sells more copies of Windows in North Korea than they do in South Korea.
I agree. S. Korea hasn't played by the rules for a long time. Having spent 9 months there while serving in the Army. I quite frankly, think it's funny that S. Korea would even have anti-trust regulations since they don't believe in or obey copyright laws. You can go down the street and buy the latest CD from any artist burned to CD-ROM with the cover photo copied in black and white. Same goes for software, cars, electronics, etc. In my view, it's hypocritical for them to ask ANYTHING of a sofware company. Not that I'm a great fan of Microsoft. I am a great fan of protecting intellectual property so we don't have to pay 5 times the cost because of over compensation due to people and countries that blatantly ignore infringement laws. If you've ever ACTUALLY been there, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't been there. Go. Buy yourself a cheap Ford Mustang while your there. Only catch is that it's actually made by Daewoo.
This is EXACTLY why Massachusetts and ALL governments should insist on open formats for public records. It's not right that public records be held hostage!
What would happen if Microsoft's proprietary XML format was used and Microsoft told Massachusetts that if they didn't get their way they would stop selling Windows in that state? How would the public continue to access their own public records?
It amazes me that some people can't see this danger.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
You can't play hardball with an independent nation..
Tomrrows Headlines:
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain. All Microsoft Offices Nationalized and documents seized for "National Security"
PJ made a very good point over at Groklaw. Consider: If you are the South Korean government, and you have historical documents written in Word, Excel, etc., and you play by the rules (i.e. you honor Microsoft's copyright, you buy Windows licenses for all your systems, etc.), and all of a sudden you cannot buy a new copy of Windows legally, what do you do? Keep running the old copies and never upgrade from then on?
This is exactly the problem with proprietary file formats. I would say that Microsoft's statement is destined to show up in a large number of conversations about OpenDocument and why it's the right thing to do...
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain.
Diclaimer: IANAL, but I am a law student.
As much as that (semi-humorous) thought would warm my heart, South Korea is a member of the World Trade Organization, which requires signing the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights ("TRIPs"), which incorporates the Berne Convention by reference.
What does this mean? It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law. I haven't had a chance to fully and formally study the documents in question, but I would be shocked if there would be no recourse by the WTO.
- Neil Wehneman
P.S. Berne is a major impediment to full and free reform of copyright on a national level, as it mandates signatory countries to grant at least a copyright term of life of the author plus fifty years.
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
It means that South Korea is obligated to recognize foreign copyrights, and stripping that protection for (arguably valid) nationalist reasons would almost certainly be in violation of international law.
The Berne Convention only requires a minimum copyright length and that countries treat foreign copyrights the same as they do their own. If Korean law allows or can be changed to allow the confiscation rights from abusive monopolies there is no conflict. For that matter, the Korean courts can just declare the intellectual property to be the fine MS must pay. In either case, Korea is unlikely to be reprimanded by the WTO since they are dealing with a criminal in the first place and an abuse monopoly that has already been found guilty in the US and EU court systems. I disagree that this would be a problem for them, but I'm no expert on international trade law.
Don't let it hit you in the ass on the way out. Asia already has a high penetration of Linux, if Microsoft leaves....all the better for Linux.
- AMW
To a whole new generation of Linux programmers and tinkerers right in Korea! And with their IT infrastructure so far ahead...
:)
Maybe it's not a good idea
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
"Screw you guys... I'm going home."
... how in the fuck does S. Korea get so damn lucky? What? Leaders with backbones?! What's that?!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Fords do that.
Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea
If we ask nicely, do you think we can get them to threaten to withdraw Windows from the United States?
When firms become large enough to wield monopoly power, they become much larger threats to free-market economics than anti-trust regulation. There is NOTHING free-market about an industry dominated by a monopoly. Market constraints come from the monopoly rather than the gov't, but that does not mean they are not constraints.
Anti-trust regulations (if well administered) make markets slightly less free overall, but they remain MOSTLY free. This is an attempt to preserve as much freedom in the marketplace as possible.
MOSTLY free is better than NOT-AT-ALL free.
If you regard free-market as a binary condition, then a more accurate statement is that market freedom is inherently unstable, eventually requiring regulation to prevent descent into abusive monopolistic environments. As such, free markets would be a poor standard by which to judge an economic environment because it would describe only immaturity of the market. Gauging market freedom on a continuum is a much more useful way to consider its effects on the market participants.
You criticize the parent post for poor reasoning, but you offer ad hominem attacks and a straw man.
The parent post simply asked questions about the morality of the decision, and as far as I can see, he or she has a perfectly valid point.
As far as business practices go, I don't know the details of the anti-trust rulings, but the South Korean market may simply not be big enough to justify complying with the ruling. If Microsoft has no intentions of complying with the ruling, but rather withdrawing from the market if this comes to pass, I see no reason for them not to announce the fact. It may affect the ruling, which is good for their business, and if it doesn't, well, good for South Korea for standing by its laws. That's what should happen.
If its an empty threat, and South Korea calls them on it, well, it'll affect their ability to negotiate with government agencies, but the reality of the situation is that if the anti-trust case goes through and they don't pull out of the market, you can bet on them reaching some sort of compermise, which I'm guessing is half the point of the threat in the first place.
Now, if the only point of the threat is to manipulate the legal system, that's certainly questionable, morally, but it's a very nuanced situation that deserves more discussion. I'm of the opinion personally that the moral questions lie with S. Korea about whether or not they should compermise their legal integrity in the face of an economic threat.