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Libranet On The Rocks
An anonymous reader writes "Following the death of his father Jon, it looks as though Tal is going to finally throw in the towel with regards the running of Libranet. Given his age and his personal circumstances who can blame in? But on a purely selfish level, is there anyone out there who can help save my favourite distribution?"
Just curious, but what is noteworthy about Libranet? Is it an especially well balenced linux distro?
Libranet is a great distro for the non geek to get up and running with a debian box. I found it to be a great learning distro that put awesome tools, including a kernel compiler, into the hands of the average person. Without it, I would not have had the successes with linux I have had. There is nothing it can do that you can't do elsewhere, and it mix of stable, testing, and unstable may put some folks off, but I feel it is an invaluable tool for a niche part of the linux community. Libranet will be missed.
both libranet and ubuntu are based on debian. They both use debian's package system. Libranet is dead, long live ubuntu.
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#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
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This is why you should never rely on one-man-wonder distros like libranet or slackware for anything beyond hobby machines.
You just *might* have found out if you had clicked on the article link. They're there for a reason, y'know?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
is a Debian fork as I understand it...not pure Debian like Libranet.
I'm willing to help in whatever way I can.
Libranet is one of the few Debian-derived systems that can claim to be 100% compatible with Debian. Its main distinguishing feature is the Libranet Adminmenu, which is on par with Mandrake (Mandriva) Control Center and YAST. Adminmenu is simple and effective, and has allowed novice users to see results of "technical" procedures first-hand, which they can learn from without having to pass the grade just to use their computers. The greatest merit of Libranet is its tightly knit and devout user community, where humor and spirit abound and the answer to any question is usually contributed mere hours after it is posed. Libranet has a rich history, a great following, and a future that its proprietor really ought to consider hard before giving it up. Anyone who hasn't tried this distro has really missed out on a unique and effective approach to Debian GNU/Linux.
I'm not worried about slackware; its an original project dependant on noone but itself. But what happens to Ubuntu if Debian folds?
-everphilski-
Although not a LibraNet user (I've been using Mandrake since 9.0, now switching over to Ubuntu), I have to acknowledge LibraNet's help in getting me past Linux's steep learning curve.
Having had trouble downloading Linux, I had ordered a stack of some 20 CD's or so of every Linux distro imaginable (to me at the time). LibraNet was one of them, sandwiched among Lycorix, Peanut Linux, Slack, FreeBSD, Pink Tie linux (Red Hat was going to sue unauthorized users of the term "Red Hat"), and the nine CD's of the main Debian 3.0 distro. For some reason I would keep getting errors installing (including the vaunted Mandrake with its "user-friendliness").
LibraNet was the first to install successfully, and make it easy to switch between KDE, GNOME, and ICEwm with the click of a button. It showed me what Linux was capable of. Even more impressive was the big button which simply said, "Recompile kernel". I never used it, but it was a shock to me that one could recompile the kernel as easily as clicking on a button. LibraNet impressed me with its multitude of screensavers. (Basically these were X screensavers, for which I have yet to find an equal that works with KDE --why are KDE screensavers so sluggish?)
LibraNet gave me the motivation to keep moving forward, to find what could be done with Linux. Kudos to the maintainers.
(I should sneak in a line or two about BasicLinux by Steven Darnold, who also showed what Linux was capable of, installed on a lowly 386 through a diskette.)
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Libranet allows adminmenu (screenshot), which makes it well suited for desktops because novice users can easily configure important settings such as Firewall, DNS & IP, manage device drivers, and configure/compile a kernel, through one simple interface similar to KDE's Control Center.
While kernel compiling and other more advanced functions may not be necessary for novice users, it allows people interested in learning more about GNU/Linux a springboard to access its deeper features and perhaps become more proficient with the OS & software.
IMHO, Linux could benefit from more tools such as this, not to hold the hands of people who have no business tweaking such features, but to allow users to "break the ice" with advanced Linux ditro features.
I hope that Adminmenu or YAST could be easily integrated into other distros, as long as these tools don't cry when users want to start tweaking settings from the commandline (then again YAST has a complete curses implementation, which allows you to use the same tool for remote administration as local administration through GUI, neat).
Twinstiq, game news
Come on, can't you see the humor in an Anonymous Coward offering help?
As long as there are millions of people in the world, there will be many different linux distributions. Having a broad range of choices is important. Imagine if there were only 3 or 4 big linux distros.
Though I may get modded as redundant, I felt that this was important to say anyway.
I don't agree with your opinion : Score:0, Flamebait
As a former Libranet user (now running Kubuntu I might add), I find this statement to be poorly reasoned as well as off-topic. Just because they both are Debian based does not preclude that one has somehow usurped the other. Furthermore, Libranet has been around longer than Ubuntu, and the founder of Libranet recently passed away. Show some respect.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Good now that libranet is dead...maybe they'll open source their adminmenu tool so other distros can use it.
If it was in so much demand someone would of created an opensource version. Yast will be open source, Debian and Ubuntu both have projects. Most people seem to be fine with synaptic, apt-get and aptitude.
As for "Good" that libranet is dead is rather harsh, libranet showed how someone could take opensource software and create a business out of it.
This is why you should never rely on one-man-wonder distros like libranet or slackware for anything beyond hobby machines.
You know how the suits always tell you that they purchase IBM/Microsoft/Sun/Oracle because when the shiznat hits the fan, they want someone they can call 24/7/365?
Well what are they gonna do when Herr Kernelmeister Torvalds up and kicks the bucket? Call Alan Cox? I mean good grief - does Richard Stallman even own a telephone?
Maybe so. My point stands. There are better examples I just didn't have one at the time. I'd be more worried about a derivitive work than a 1-man distro. I mean look at slackware. Despite Patrick Volerding's health problems the new versions have been rolling off the presses without a hitch...
-everphilski-
Imagine if there were only 3 or 4 big linux distros.
That would actually be pretty cool. It would allow for much more standardisation than we have now and would probably also help push Linux even further into the mainstream.
I think that the dozens of little distros out there actually hurt Linux more than helping it.
And all we really need is cynobacteria.
KFG
"Most people seem to be fine with synaptic, apt-get and aptitude."
/etc/app/app-conf' and you're done". Simple, if you can remember all the "this_lines" and their homes. Until there is a more extensive and human-readable administration section, it still doesn't get first place in the "linux for human beans" category.
This is true, for the "Add/Remove Software" part of administration. I use Ubuntu and Suse and don't want to spend time administering either. Having 1 place to go to administer 90% of the machines functionality is a huge help.
The Ubuntu community is very helpful in giving answers, but it often results in "it's easy, just type 'sudo this_line in
my 0.02USD
Most people seem to be fine with synaptic, apt-get and aptitude.
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 by hand, but that's not the correct solution (Debconf will give up on managing the file if you edit it.)
These are great tools for package management, but have virtually nothing to do with configuration/administration. If you mess up the configuration during the initial package install, you're on your own in figuring out which package to "dpkg-reconfigure".
As an example.... Lets say you install the x-window-system and gnome metapackages. You attempt to configure X, but for one reason or another it doesn't start up correctly. Which package needs to be reconfigured to fix X? You could simply edit
Debian doesn't give you any real guidance in these situations. It does have powerful tools to fix problems but they're not simple to use. Unfortunately, most of the third-party admin tools don't integrate well with Debian's existing configuration system. If adminmenu is different in this respect, it would be a worthwhile addition to Debian.
> "Slackware, for instance, had the first 'packages' as we'd recognize them."
No, actually, the packages predate the distributions -- I used to download individual packages off of funet.fi, back in the very early days when you still needed a Minix boot floppy to run fdisk and mkfs for Linux. The first "distro" was SLS, and it simply tried to provide a little overall organization for the steadily growing mass of packages that already existed. And Debian didn't "fix the flaws in Slackware's original model" because A) it wasn't "Slackware's model", it was simply the standard model that everyone used at the time (but, if anything, it was SLS's model), and B) Slackware and Debian were founded at basically the same time, which makes it hard to claim that Debian was influenced by Slackware in any way, since Slackware didn't exist back then! Of course, Slackware went from non-existence to 1.0 status in almost no time, since it relied on pre-existing technologies, while Debian took several years to reach 1.0, since they were trying to solve problems that nobody else had previously addressed.
Your poor grasp of history aside, though, I do agree with your main thesis that dealing with "one-person outfits" is perfectly safe, for the most part. I would qualify that by saying that they're safe if they're basically doing some minor refining of existing alternatives (in Slackware's case, the amorphous mass of packages on funet and other sites, and in Libranet's case, the mass of packages available on Debian mirrors). Basically, what it comes down to is: have a back-up plan. (That is to say, not a plan to make backups, but a backup to your current plan).
Libranet users have plenty of viable alternatives that will be easy to switch to if it all does go south, so I—like you—think they have little to worry about.
Just for the record, I'm not fine with them, and I'll be happy when a ubiquitous alternative comes along, one which is along the lines of adminmenu or YAST. Until then I'm writing shell scripts to help myself and making them available on the forums of the specific distros for which I make them, but it is not as elegant a solution as those GUI tools. And why do the work over again? Hopefully they will open source adminmenu as it is quite good!
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I'd fork her.
states that this is just another form of survival of the fittest.
Arash Partow's Philosophy: Be a person who knows what they don't know, and not a person who doesn't know.
Spelling errors. Check.
Quack, quack.
Isn't YAST already open? I know Mandrake/Mandriva has a solid GPL commitment.
Honestly I find it sort of disappointing that more distro's haven't taken advantage of these open gifts we've been given. Fedora with its clunky up2date and yum solutions is a good example. Urpmi and Rpmdrake have solved the problems associated with rpm's ages ago. YAST is a strong second.
Quack, quack.
No, the community will take over as it has before during PV's illness.
Right, because all Slackware servers will magically stop working the moment PV dies, and you will have no time at all to consider alternatives and devise an upgrade plan for the case that even became necessary, eh?
hey're there for a reason, y'know?
So people can complain that others have not read it, mostly. Just think of the horrific "existence" we would be subject to if we were reduced to only bitching about dupes and the editors! *shivers*
Slashstalker loser.
--
make install -not war
LibraNet is a Debian clone that has a very nice added administration package, and also can install Nvidia drivers off the CD. (Granted that most commercial distributions can do that, but a bog-standard Debian Sarge can't, and as a result my screen displays at unacceptably low resolution.
Official NVidia packages in Sarge
The newest version of libranet is about two years old, I think. Last time I checked, they are still trying to sell it for $90.
Folks, not many people are going to spend $90 on a two year debian distro. Especially when Ubuntu is around.
Just OSS the entire project. Maybe somebody will pick it up. But, as a viable business, I can't see it.
Unlikely - linux users are much bigger on mooching off other poeples work than actually doing it themselves, oh yeah and boasting about what radical open source freedom warriors they are.
You nailed it with the selfish word.
But what are the chances of hearing something like, "let me get back to you - I'd like to get up to speed with our customer care center." A few hours later, "I regret to inform you, but this particular issue is not within the bounds of your current support agreement. However, we'd be happy to provide immediate asstance for an additional fee of [insert $$$$ here]."
How the fuck does a comment like this get a +2? It's blatantly wrong, and the person obviously hasn't done an ounce of research to validate his facts. No wonder /. moderation really is very badly fucked. No wonder many people trash /. moderation. Since my karma is negative (for simply posting actually factual comments that others just simply dislike and mod down for inappropriate reasons) I really couldn't give a fuck what you fucked up moderators (or whatever you want to call yourselves) think.
.deb file and install it. RPM has the same problems as well.
Libranet 3 was released early April 2005. It's now November 2005. That's about 7 months by my reckoning. So, how the fuck do you get 2 years out of that?
Most of the rests of the posts on this article are just crap. Ubuntu this, Ubuntu that. I couldn't give a rats ass about a Debian based distribution that isn't binary compatible with Debian. Sorry, no thanks. Ubuntu is SOOOOO overrated it isn't funny. Vastly overrated.
For those that posted about Xandros being better than Libranet - in your dreams. Since Xandros used a customised version of KDE, try upgrading it - and lose ALL of the Xandros customisations. Go on. XFM (Xandros File Manager)? Linspire was the same, a real bitch to update and keep in synch with Debian.
YAST? sure, go have a look at the Alioth packages. Make sure you're running a mixture of unstable/experimental, and be prepared to lose half of kde (and I'm running kde 3.4.2 from unstable btw). YAST has been opened for nearly 2 years now, and not that much has really happened with it. It's still a little project over at Alioth, Debian itself hasn't shown an official ounce of interest in it.
Slackware? It's a nice distro. But - Slackware really has packages, no repositories to worry about. Let me explain. You can grab a Slackware package from anywhere, and install it, doesn't matter where. Debian or Debian based distributions want you to point at a particular server side repository. That's a problem. You (generally) just can't go and grab any
I've been using Libranet since 2.7. I was using Windows XP and Debian Woody at the time. I liked it. When I had some spare cash a few months down the track, I bought 2.8.1. Used that for nearly two years. I'd still be most probably using it now except for ext3 crashing and having to spend a week pulling my data off it...I was one of the many Libranet 3 beta testers, so when 2.8.1 died, I bit the bullet and installed the beta that I'd been using, which has performed flawlessly since. Like many Libranet users, I help out on the forums as best as possible (given knowledge and time). This is pretty damn well sad news, as Libranet was the first distribution that I could just install and it worked out of the box. No fart assing around. It just worked. It was Debian compatible, and obviously used dpkg. RPM just sucks major I'm afraid to say. The sooner RPM is killed off, and every distro gathers around dpkg, the better Linux will be.
Anyways, I've said my piece, so I'll shove off.
Dave W Pastern
Slashdot can go and get fucked.
My point is that it doesn't matter what happens to Debian because Ubuntu is more than capable of surviving on its own.
Having Mark Shuttleworth's wallet around certainly helps
You never learn anything about the underlying system if you just trash-n-replace it. You're using your Linux the same way the 'techs' who maintain Windows do when they tell people to 'reinstall the OS' any time something goes wrong.
Your system never evolves or improves. Your idea of 'top shape' is whatever out-of-the-box configuration you froze two years ago, apparently.
resigned
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Sorry, but the first amendment says you're wrong. Protection of political speech and all that. Yes, the first amendment even protects idiots. I'm proof. :)
No, the first amendment just means you have every right to unpatriotic speech. It doesn't mean that any political speech you choose to express is patriotic. Nazi's aren't patriotic...yet they have full first amendment rights too.
That seems a stretch. I experessed my honest opinion and (not so typically) did it without disparaging anyone/anything. I guess some Slashdot readers can't tell what an open discussion is. Hint: then this probably isn't the right place for you.
Quack, quack.
The posts I have read are all seemingly positive towards Libranet and feel somewhat irked at the inevitable end of a great distro. This said, how expensive could it be to purchase and keep this distro working? If there was a core group with external developers, this is a potentially awesome undertaking, and one in which we could enjoy doing. I am open to any serious community members who would be interested in the offer posed by Tal: Invest in Libranet. I am a geek in project manager's clothing. I have more than 5 years experience using Linux for everything from hoome and work, to college, where I teach evenings. I believe in the OS and am willing to work with, for, or alongside others pursuing the same end: let's keep the distro in production - not become another expended product. Those of us who use it KNOW it's incredible functionalities and breadth of uses. Contact me if you're interested. /fred
It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline. Beyond that, we all enter the food chain, and
Oooooooo, yeah, Calothrix! The "High Energy" Linux.
KFG