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Fix Your Crashing X-Box 360 With String
mkraft writes "A gamer fed up with his new Xbox 360 crashing every 20 minutes has fixed the problem by raising the power supply off the ground with some string. Goldeneyemaster over at the GameSpot forums indicates that the main reason for his Xbox 360 freezing up is the power supply overheating. The solution is to lift the power supply off the floor and allow the air to circulate better around it."
And sadly, it's probably a better quality fix than MS would provide on Warranty
Don't get me wrong, I love the Xbox, but my first one was one of those that cought on fire. Why am I not surprised that there are problems with the 360 at release?
Someone save me from this sanity.
Well, at least you don't have to lift the console itself this time around....
Not having seen one, ( nor will i buy one ), but i would imagine that a set of LARGE rubber feet would raise it enough to get some air flow..
Oh, and keep it out of the carpet..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Somebody patent this!
cat * >> sig
A great, fast, good graphics gaming console! The XBox360! Yours now for only $399... no strings atta...
Hello,
Your string is on its way!
Thanks,
Microsoft Support
I built an anti-gravity system for my Xbox 360 using magnets. Now if only I could figure out why the drives keep getting erased.
I'm wondering what will happen next summer, problems will get even worse.
Now you can tell your girlfriend to keep blowing on your Xbox 360 power supply while playing.
My guess is that everything was tested on a nice hard bench. When you stick the PSU on a carpet the inherent fluffyness of the carpet blocks the ventilation and causes it to overheat.
i read the headline to mean an exploit was found. then i read the article. oh, not a literal string, it is literally string. nevermind...
Serenity now, insanity later.
"Improper suspension of the unit will cause overheating. Poor air circulation around the power supply will cause it to retain heat. Overheating may cause unwanted results such as system freezing, jerky video, slow performance, fire, violent and frequent bowel movements (an urgent need to have them, and an inability to control them), and sudden death. It is highly recommended that the unit be suspended a distance of at least 6" from any flat surface. Microsoft is currently developing technology that will levitate the unit without the need of any suspension device. Until research and development is completed, we suggest you elevate the unit using string, duct tape, corregated shelving, or your kid brother. We are certain that despite any minor inconvenienced listed above, you will enjoy your XBox."
And 'fixing it with string'? Sounds more like 'fixing it by allowing it to get some AIR'...
If some power supplies are overheating during the cool season, we should expect even more problems next summer.
I can see cooling being a big issue for the CPU and graphics chips which have to dissipate quite a bit no matter what, but the power supply? A well designed switching supply should have very low losses and run cool.
BURNS:
Could you explain your model, young man?
GRIMES:
What's to explain? He's an idiot!
LENNY:
Pipe down!
HOMER:
Well basically, I just copied the plant we have now.
BURNS:
Mm-hmm.
HOMER:
Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance. (pointing) And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
If you have an Xbox 360, read the label of power supply. Post who manufactures it, and where it was manufactured. Perhaps there are other consumer devices that use power supplies from the same manufacturer that we should check for overheating.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I give you a 10 on misdirected anger, and a 0 on content...ie a great slashdot post!
Monstar L
Goddamn you Micro$oft users love getting raped!
I know you're a troll and you don't really deserve an answer, but...
Actually it's not Microsoft users who love getting raped, it's early adopters. And a damn good thing too: without early adopters, we patient and reasonable consumers wouldn't get good products with all the design kinks worked out.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I went back to report and had a very hard time from the product manager (it was in fact so bad that half way through the meeting I told him I had to switch out of the language we were using back to my native English because I did not want a grammatical error to turn into an "admission" in a court of law.) But in the end he gave up.
The engineers then gave me lunch and told me that everybody knew that the project manager had specified to the PSU manaufacturer that the unit had to work up to 35C free air - completely failing to allow for its being used on a carpet, on top of a hot TV, or even on top of the TV covered in magazines. Nobody could understand what sort of a house he must live in that he was unaware of how the box was actually likely to be used.
Pining for the fjords
Made in China.
It could easily have been a management problem too... As frickin' huge as the thing is, it's possible it was even larger during development, and the management word came down "the PSU must be smaller! Otherwise the japanese won't buy it. Consequences be damned!", and it turns out this was the smallest they could get it.
You are probably right... but if everyone was a 'patient, reasonable consumer' then maybe MS would have to fix their shit before they, you know, ship it? Otherwise no one would buy it. Just a thought.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Air is a crappy heat conductor, but in many cases it is your only option.
Water conducts heat about 25x better than air (which is why hypothermia hits in minutes when you are in 35 degree water, but can stand in 35 degree air for half an hour or more with little more than a shiver) but not too many people will let you flood their homes just to keep them warm.
Modern electronics use cooling fans because they are cheap, and because they work good enough. For serious heat management, you are back to liquids (look at car engines, for example.)
It looks like the MS power supply could use some cooling fins, because dunking it in mineral oil (while effective) isn't particularly end user friendly.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
You might give this method a try. Brings Windows XP with SP2 down (first a short BSOD, followed by a reboot). Nothing to do with drivers and/or hardware problems.
This page is in german, but the HTML code can be seen with no problems. I managed to bring 2 out of 3 windows XP installations down by this trick (sometimes, you have to wait a little while before it crashes, but it most probably will)
The technical/geek solution to an overheating brick (psu) is simple. Use some zip ties to attach one or two old slot a/1 HSF to the overheating brick. Don't forget to use a good load of Arctic Silver (or thermal pads if you are not l33t) between the HSF and brick.
Two HSF @ $7.49 - $14.98
Two Arctiv Silver tubes @ $8.99 - $17.98
A reasonable total of $32.96 to solve yet another MS oversight.
Dear Customer,
We have decided to deny your warranty request to replace the external power supply and deny your request for a complimentary Microsoft XPCool Strings(tm).
The reason for this is that you have not used your unit according to the specifications.
As per the instruction manual included in MS Word format on the XBox 360's hard drive, it clearly states in section 361.27.5a(iii) the following:
"As an additional winter bonus, we have provided you with a power supply that doubles as a personal block heater, this block heater must be set up by suspending over the cardboard box provided with the XBox360. Failure to do so can cause system instability or fire.
If your friend or family member has thrown away this box, please purchase an additional usage license for that friend or family member as you are clearly in violation of the EULA (as this the console is provided with a single user license); we will provide you with an extra box for power supply suspension along with the additional license upon request"
First of all, I want to mention I can run my Xbox 360 for a stonkin' forever without it crashing. I have taken a few steps though.
First of all, I separate the power supply from the 360. I have my 360 in a stereo cabinet, but I have the power supply behind the stereo cabinet on the floor. I did this because it was clear from the 24" power cable between the PS and 360 that MS intended this to be possible. Second of all, I cut some small holes in the back of my stereo cabinet for airflow. These are probably about 6 square inches total. Additionally, I don't close the cabinet completely, so I have some airflow out the front.
I also have been experimenting with fans just to see the effects. Here's a set of measurments I did with the front opening cracked a bit. This is the temperature in the stereo cabinet space (about 8 cubic feet) containg the 360.
0:00 - 73.4F (ambient)
0:30 - 89.4F
0:50 - 94.8F
1:10 - 98.1F
1:30 - 100.2F
1:50 - 101.7F
2:10 - 102.7F
2:30 - 103.5F
Then I turned on the fan in the cabinet and the temp dropped to 98.8F. With the fan on, I could close the front door completely and the temp still only rose to about 100F.
Clearly this thing is a heat monster! If I measure the temp at the output fan it, it has risen over 115F.
But, I have checked the power supply in back cursorily, and it just doesn't get all that hot on its own. This makes sense, given that if the PS is about 80% efficient, then only 50W is being dissapated by the PS back there, and 200W is being dissapated by the 360 in front.
So, although I haven't had any problems, my recommendation would be first of all, get your 360 out of that confined space. It just generates too much heat for that. Second of all, even in a semi-confined space, get the power supply away from the 360, preferably get it into its own "cooling zone".
For sure, do not put the power supply directly behind the 360 in any kind of smallish space! The 360 draws air in at the back, at the lower of the two fans (on the right if it is laying down). If you put the PS right there, it will not only block the airflow, making the 360 take in its own exhaust, but it will also heat up the intake air even further.
My guess is people who are having this problem, and don't have the 360 in a small, sealed space are mostly just putting the PS in a bad place, and putting it on strings, is just a complicated form of relocating it so it isn't there heating up the 360 intake air.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Back in the old days when I had my Atari 800XL, I upgraded it to 256K of RAM. The extra power draw was enough to cause the power supply to overheat and fail. The power supply was encased in hard plastic and had no ventilation. My solution was to place the power supply in a zip-lock baggie that was obviously open at the top to allow the cables to go out, but then the lower half was submerged in a pot of water. Worked perfectly until I finally came across a power supply that was ventilated.
And never conducted real testing, because they relied on the QA from their power supply vendor.
The main reasons for the prevalence of external power supplies or "wall warts" are that they shift regulatory compliance (UL, CSA, TUV, or whatnot) onto a third party (the power supply vendor), and enable the same basic product to be sold worldwide with different external supplies provided to accomodate local variations in line voltage/frequency/receptacle type.
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
This absurd situation is the direct result of buying a sysphisticated piece of electronic hardware from a software company. And not just a software company, from a huge software monopoly.
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers. Real engineers, not software engineers or sanitation engineers. People who have been rigorous trained in the behavior of physical materials when acted upon by systematic application of an energy source. People in hardware companies don't sell stuff that gets fixed right out of the box by hanging the power supply by a piece of string. There are lots of other people with experience and scars from past mistakes that ensure that this doesn't happen. And if by some circumstance it does occur, the engineers in other companies don't forget about it and managers don't rehire the engineers who were responsible at that same level. Like Deng Shao Ping, they must first spend some time on the pig farm to contemplate the consequences of their mistakes.
But not designers in a software company. Real world hardware doesn't exist, in theory. If you put 100 volts across a eighth-watt 10-ohm resistor, you get 10 amps. My super calculator says so. Actually what you get is a bad smell. Couple this with the atmosphere of upwardly-mobile incompetence found in any large corporation. Lock it in place by the office politics of having "yes men and women" generally promoted over innovative corporate in-house entrepreneurs and you have a situation where your customers are hanging your new state-of-the-art showcase product by a piece of string in order to get it to work.
All this is worse in a monopoly corporation, because they have already reached the maximum possible business goal through past operations. Anything new and innovative can't improve the situation. Therefore managers have nothing to gain by encouraging and rewarding competence and innovation. Add the generalized hubris of 5000 pampered 30-year-old grade-point-angels who have spent their entire lives becoming the best in class at passing tests and pleasing the teacher, drop in a pinch of clinical psychotic behavior in the upper levels of management, and you've created the perfect Frankenstein organization.
Microsoft.
This absurd situation is the direct result of buying a sysphisticated piece of electronic hardware from a software company.
;-)
... a huge software monopoly
... nope never could happen. For the flamers reading: Apple is primarily a hardware company, they are merely most famous for their software (well until iPod) and that software is the hook, the justification, for buying their more expensive hardware (have to cite the Mini as a break in that historical trend - not in a literal sense but in a practical sense). This is why they will not offer Mac OS X for the standard PC architecture.
Microsoft has produced sophisticated hardware before, for example Z80 coprocessor cards for Apple IIs. This let Apple II users run CP/M back in the day.
OK that was a while ago, more recently we have keyboard, mice, joysticks. Not quite sophisticated, even when you toss in force feeback
The above may not qualify as sophisticated by it does show that they are also a hardware company to some degree.
And, uh, you are aware that the XBox360 is a followup to something called the XBox? I think that little piece of hardware may fall in to the "sophisticated" category.
Irrelevant. Apple enjoys an equally monopolistic position over *it's* customers and Apple is able to design some very nice hardware.
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers.
Like a hardware company named Apple, a company that has been producing sophisticated hardware for nearly 30 years? Oh yeah, they've never shipped with bad power supplies, bad batteries that could catch on fire,
If use of Apple offends you we could use HP (pre-Compaq), Intel, or a host of other companies to prove the same point.
I feel like a dunce. I thought the 360 was for 360 degrees in a full circle. But clearly it is for 360 degrees, the operating temperature of the power supply (you get to choose Fahrenheit or Celsius).
You should contact the legal firm of Spiro Moss Barness, etc... They are one of many firms united in a class action lawsuit about the Thompson DVD drives that were used in the Xbox. Microsoft seem to have been aware of the lack of quality in these drives as later models used different manufacturers. Despite this, if you talk to their customer service reps, they continue to ask you if your discs are dirty despite the fact you tell them you just bought the damn game.
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I don't give a rat's ass about Sony's problems. I'm here to ask about the awful consumer experience I had with my original Xbox and what exactly is the truth about this new product. Here are links that show what a known issue those drives were.
http://sentientcreations.com/xboxIssues/problem.p
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/xbox_dvd_repai
Now there's an entire market based upon replacing your Xbox's DVD drive with a better one such as Samsung.
Microsoft's support solution: clean the disc. No matter how many times you tell them the disc is brand new, they say it's a dirty disc.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb
Then there was the power supply issue. A recall in which power cords were issued to cover up shoddy circuitry that could and did cause house fires. Mostly due to bad soldering. In the recall, older Xboxes were given power cords with breakers, so in the event of a short, you may burn out your Xbox but at least your house won't burn down.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/ar/
So a few weeks ago we started to see Xbox 360s in demo retail models showing the dreaded Error 74. Photograph of it here.
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000480066825/
Now we have reports of crashes that yes, are online and could be from a vocal minority, but I have never heard of or owned a console that crashes the way photographs show us is happening to the 360 - and let's remember the people complaining about it are the ones who braved the cold and the nuisance of picking one up.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/hours-old-a
Now apparently there is a fix in the form of suspending the power supply. People are finding it's working. Ergo, the power supply is defective. Just like the one on the original Xbox which was RECALLED.
Whatever marketing spiel Microsoft want to give, I want for them to answer one thing. What exactly is Error 74 and Error 79 - what does it mean is happening to the box. They have refused, as they did with the Thompson DVD drive, to let us know what is going wrong. Even if it isolated. Does it bode poorly for the future? Why is there a SPECIFIC error message already in the box's OS that is happening to people?
Now we know for certain that the machine is not only prone to overheating, there is an inbuilt error message related to it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907533/
And did you hear about how the tech support person told that guy to "wipe his video cables with a soft cloth"? Too rich.
** http://www.nkhumanrights.or.kr/ ** Human rights in North Korea. 1 million estimated dead from starvation.
I have contacted each of the cooling device manuafacturers and they are on this already. There is a new water cooling solution being produced specifically for the X-360 power supply and it will be at the affordable rate of $199.99.
Q: I am short, useless and provide no value. What am I? A: a sig
Hmm. Tape takes care of DRM...
String solved overheating problems...
Does Staples or Office Depot sell stock? I have a feeling they could help me become very rich, soon...
Personally I don't see what's so interesting about this whole solve-a-problem-using-string story. Now MacGuyver, there's a guy who knows how to use string. I mean, in one episode of MacGuyver, MacGuyver builds a helicopter using string. And a little bit of duck tape, of course.
Because there happens to be no sane default.
You can't limit things like number of processes without knowing what the machine is supposed to do. A limit of 30 processes might be perfectly fine on a firewall, and completely insane for a machine that runs Apache. Set it to 500, and it won't prevent the firewall from becoming unusable due to a fork bomb, which may very well consume all available memory.
Same goes for things like memory limits. Databases are expected to use up most of the RAM available in the machine, very unlike a computer used for word processing, where it's very rare for any single program to consume a large fraction of RAM.
This is in no way unique to computers. You can't apply the same current limits to a residential house and a factory.
Thing is, this kind of safety measures only work when you know the setting, the expected resource usage, and put limits in the right place. They're specific for each particular situation.
Hm, I've opened the PC, unscrewed the PS from the frame, suspended it on a string from the side of the desk, but the bloody Windows continues cras!@#$%^.....
Cast:
Adrian Wapcaplet: John Cleese
Mr. Simpson: Eric Idle
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah, come in, come in, Mr....Simpson. Aaah, welcome to Mousebat, Follicle, Goosecreature, Ampersand,
Spong, Wapcaplet, Looseliver, Vendetta and Prang!
Mr. Simpson: Thank you.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Do sit down--my name's Wapcaplet, Adrian Wapcaplet...
Mr. Simpson: how'd'y'do.
Wapcaplet: Now, Mr. Simpson... Simpson, Simpson... French, is it?
Mr. Simpson: No.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah. Now, I understand you want us to advertise your washing powder.
Mr. Simpson: String.
Adrian Wapcaplet: String, washing powder, what's the difference. We can sell *anything*.
Mr. Simpson: Good. Well I have this large quantity of string, a hundred and twenty-two thousand *miles* of it to be exact,
which I inherited, and I thought if I advertised it--
Adrian Wapcaplet: Of course! A national campaign. Useful stuff, string, no trouble there.
Mr. Simpson: Ah, but there's a snag, you see. Due to bad planning, the hundred and twenty-two thousand miles is in three
inch lengths. So it's not very useful.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, that's our selling point! "SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL STRINGETTES!"
Mr. Simpson: What?
Adrian Wapcaplet: "THE NOW STRING! READY CUT, EASY TO HANDLE, SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR
STRINGETTES - JUST THE RIGHT LENGTH!"
Mr. Simpson: For what?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uuuh..."A MILLION HOUSEHOLD USES!"
Mr. Simpson: Such as?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uhmm...Tying up very small parcels, attatching notes to pigeons' legs, uh, destroying household pests...
Mr. Simpson: Destroying household pests?! How?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, if they're bigger than a mouse, you can strangle them with it, and if they're smaller than, you flog
them to death with it!
Mr. Simpson: Well *surely*!....
Adrian Wapcaplet: "DESTROY NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF KNOWN HOUSEHOLD PESTS WITH PRE-SLICED,
RUSTPROOF, EASY-TO-HANDLE, LOW CALORIE SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR STRINGETTES, FREE
FROM ARTIFICIAL COLORING, AS USED IN HOSPITALS!"
Mr. Simpson: 'Ospitals!?!?!?!!?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Have you ever in a Hospital where they didn't have string?
Mr. Simpson: No, but it's only *string*!
Adrian Wapcaplet: ONLY STRING?! It's everything! It's...it's waterproof!
Mr. Simpson: No, it isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water resistant then!
Mr. Simpson: It, isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water absorbent! It's...Super Absorbent String! "ABSORB WATER TODAY WITH
SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL WATER ABSORB-A-TEX STRINGETTES! AWAY WITH FLOODS!"
Mr. Simpson: You just said it was waterproof!
Adrian Wapcaplet: "AWAY WITH THE DULL DRUDGERY OF WORKADAY TIDAL WAVES! USE SIMPSON'S
INDIVIDUAL FLOOD PREVENTERS!"
Mr. Simpson: You're mad!
Adrian Wapcaplet: Shut up, shut up, shut up! Sex, sex sex, must get sex into it. Wait, I see a television commercial - There's
this nude woman in a bath holding a bit of your string. That's great, great, but we need a doctor, got to have a medical opinion.
There's a nude woman in a bath with a doctor--that's too sexy. Put an archbishop there watching them, that'll take the curse
off it. Now, we need children and animals. There's two kids admiring the string, and a dog admiring the archbishop who's
blessing the string. Uhh...international flavor's missing...make the archbishop Greek Orthodox. Why not Archbishop
Macarios? No, no, he's dead... never mind, we'll get his brother, it'll be cheaper... So there's archbishop Macarios, his brother
and a doctor in the bath with this nude woman, two doctors and a dog....