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Fix Your Crashing X-Box 360 With String
mkraft writes "A gamer fed up with his new Xbox 360 crashing every 20 minutes has fixed the problem by raising the power supply off the ground with some string. Goldeneyemaster over at the GameSpot forums indicates that the main reason for his Xbox 360 freezing up is the power supply overheating. The solution is to lift the power supply off the floor and allow the air to circulate better around it."
Don't get me wrong, I love the Xbox, but my first one was one of those that cought on fire. Why am I not surprised that there are problems with the 360 at release?
Someone save me from this sanity.
Well, at least you don't have to lift the console itself this time around....
Not having seen one, ( nor will i buy one ), but i would imagine that a set of LARGE rubber feet would raise it enough to get some air flow..
Oh, and keep it out of the carpet..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Somebody patent this!
cat * >> sig
A great, fast, good graphics gaming console! The XBox360! Yours now for only $399... no strings atta...
Hello,
Your string is on its way!
Thanks,
Microsoft Support
Right, an Open Source power supply wouldn't have these problems.
I built an anti-gravity system for my Xbox 360 using magnets. Now if only I could figure out why the drives keep getting erased.
I'm wondering what will happen next summer, problems will get even worse.
Now you can tell your girlfriend to keep blowing on your Xbox 360 power supply while playing.
i read the headline to mean an exploit was found. then i read the article. oh, not a literal string, it is literally string. nevermind...
Serenity now, insanity later.
"Improper suspension of the unit will cause overheating. Poor air circulation around the power supply will cause it to retain heat. Overheating may cause unwanted results such as system freezing, jerky video, slow performance, fire, violent and frequent bowel movements (an urgent need to have them, and an inability to control them), and sudden death. It is highly recommended that the unit be suspended a distance of at least 6" from any flat surface. Microsoft is currently developing technology that will levitate the unit without the need of any suspension device. Until research and development is completed, we suggest you elevate the unit using string, duct tape, corregated shelving, or your kid brother. We are certain that despite any minor inconvenienced listed above, you will enjoy your XBox."
BURNS:
Could you explain your model, young man?
GRIMES:
What's to explain? He's an idiot!
LENNY:
Pipe down!
HOMER:
Well basically, I just copied the plant we have now.
BURNS:
Mm-hmm.
HOMER:
Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance. (pointing) And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
If you have an Xbox 360, read the label of power supply. Post who manufactures it, and where it was manufactured. Perhaps there are other consumer devices that use power supplies from the same manufacturer that we should check for overheating.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
...A well designed...
Sorry, pal. This is a Microsoft product.
I give you a 10 on misdirected anger, and a 0 on content...ie a great slashdot post!
Monstar L
I went back to report and had a very hard time from the product manager (it was in fact so bad that half way through the meeting I told him I had to switch out of the language we were using back to my native English because I did not want a grammatical error to turn into an "admission" in a court of law.) But in the end he gave up.
The engineers then gave me lunch and told me that everybody knew that the project manager had specified to the PSU manaufacturer that the unit had to work up to 35C free air - completely failing to allow for its being used on a carpet, on top of a hot TV, or even on top of the TV covered in magazines. Nobody could understand what sort of a house he must live in that he was unaware of how the box was actually likely to be used.
Pining for the fjords
Made in China.
It could easily have been a management problem too... As frickin' huge as the thing is, it's possible it was even larger during development, and the management word came down "the PSU must be smaller! Otherwise the japanese won't buy it. Consequences be damned!", and it turns out this was the smallest they could get it.
Actually, they did investigate other power supplies. However, all the ones they tested actually fit neatly away out of sight. So they had to produce their own, freakishly large, one.
That's no excuse. This is a freakin' game console. You've got to expect the power supply to be sitting down on a carpet and design around that.
I fail to see why this would be considered 'misuse' of the Xbox. It really ought to be able to live anywhere your stereo does. Especially with an external power brick that is dealing with much of the heat.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Any decent power supply shouldn't have these problems.
If a power supply gets hot enough to fail under normal conditions, it's not a very efficient or well-designed power supply.
Modern switching power supplies should be able to function at temperature extremes without failing. Power supplies are mature technology; there's really no excuse for this.
Maybe MS should have gone with a well known high quality PSU maker like ASTEC for this.
-Z
The technical/geek solution to an overheating brick (psu) is simple. Use some zip ties to attach one or two old slot a/1 HSF to the overheating brick. Don't forget to use a good load of Arctic Silver (or thermal pads if you are not l33t) between the HSF and brick.
Two HSF @ $7.49 - $14.98
Two Arctiv Silver tubes @ $8.99 - $17.98
A reasonable total of $32.96 to solve yet another MS oversight.
Dear Customer,
We have decided to deny your warranty request to replace the external power supply and deny your request for a complimentary Microsoft XPCool Strings(tm).
The reason for this is that you have not used your unit according to the specifications.
As per the instruction manual included in MS Word format on the XBox 360's hard drive, it clearly states in section 361.27.5a(iii) the following:
"As an additional winter bonus, we have provided you with a power supply that doubles as a personal block heater, this block heater must be set up by suspending over the cardboard box provided with the XBox360. Failure to do so can cause system instability or fire.
If your friend or family member has thrown away this box, please purchase an additional usage license for that friend or family member as you are clearly in violation of the EULA (as this the console is provided with a single user license); we will provide you with an extra box for power supply suspension along with the additional license upon request"
First of all, I want to mention I can run my Xbox 360 for a stonkin' forever without it crashing. I have taken a few steps though.
First of all, I separate the power supply from the 360. I have my 360 in a stereo cabinet, but I have the power supply behind the stereo cabinet on the floor. I did this because it was clear from the 24" power cable between the PS and 360 that MS intended this to be possible. Second of all, I cut some small holes in the back of my stereo cabinet for airflow. These are probably about 6 square inches total. Additionally, I don't close the cabinet completely, so I have some airflow out the front.
I also have been experimenting with fans just to see the effects. Here's a set of measurments I did with the front opening cracked a bit. This is the temperature in the stereo cabinet space (about 8 cubic feet) containg the 360.
0:00 - 73.4F (ambient)
0:30 - 89.4F
0:50 - 94.8F
1:10 - 98.1F
1:30 - 100.2F
1:50 - 101.7F
2:10 - 102.7F
2:30 - 103.5F
Then I turned on the fan in the cabinet and the temp dropped to 98.8F. With the fan on, I could close the front door completely and the temp still only rose to about 100F.
Clearly this thing is a heat monster! If I measure the temp at the output fan it, it has risen over 115F.
But, I have checked the power supply in back cursorily, and it just doesn't get all that hot on its own. This makes sense, given that if the PS is about 80% efficient, then only 50W is being dissapated by the PS back there, and 200W is being dissapated by the 360 in front.
So, although I haven't had any problems, my recommendation would be first of all, get your 360 out of that confined space. It just generates too much heat for that. Second of all, even in a semi-confined space, get the power supply away from the 360, preferably get it into its own "cooling zone".
For sure, do not put the power supply directly behind the 360 in any kind of smallish space! The 360 draws air in at the back, at the lower of the two fans (on the right if it is laying down). If you put the PS right there, it will not only block the airflow, making the 360 take in its own exhaust, but it will also heat up the intake air even further.
My guess is people who are having this problem, and don't have the 360 in a small, sealed space are mostly just putting the PS in a bad place, and putting it on strings, is just a complicated form of relocating it so it isn't there heating up the 360 intake air.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Back in the old days when I had my Atari 800XL, I upgraded it to 256K of RAM. The extra power draw was enough to cause the power supply to overheat and fail. The power supply was encased in hard plastic and had no ventilation. My solution was to place the power supply in a zip-lock baggie that was obviously open at the top to allow the cables to go out, but then the lower half was submerged in a pot of water. Worked perfectly until I finally came across a power supply that was ventilated.
And never conducted real testing, because they relied on the QA from their power supply vendor.
The main reasons for the prevalence of external power supplies or "wall warts" are that they shift regulatory compliance (UL, CSA, TUV, or whatnot) onto a third party (the power supply vendor), and enable the same basic product to be sold worldwide with different external supplies provided to accomodate local variations in line voltage/frequency/receptacle type.
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Right. Because I just love playing Xbox in the kitchen. The basement too - not that it's freezing cold down there this time of year or anything.
And that beastly-looking power supply really doesn't look so nice with your entertainment system - and when you bring your Xbox to your friends' houses to play with them, you probably don't want to waste your time fitting it into their TV cabinet - you just want to play. Plus, if you hide it in the back of the cabinet behind other stuff, everything else will be blocking its ventilation.
www.linuxpenguin.net
This absurd situation is the direct result of buying a sysphisticated piece of electronic hardware from a software company.
;-)
... a huge software monopoly
... nope never could happen. For the flamers reading: Apple is primarily a hardware company, they are merely most famous for their software (well until iPod) and that software is the hook, the justification, for buying their more expensive hardware (have to cite the Mini as a break in that historical trend - not in a literal sense but in a practical sense). This is why they will not offer Mac OS X for the standard PC architecture.
Microsoft has produced sophisticated hardware before, for example Z80 coprocessor cards for Apple IIs. This let Apple II users run CP/M back in the day.
OK that was a while ago, more recently we have keyboard, mice, joysticks. Not quite sophisticated, even when you toss in force feeback
The above may not qualify as sophisticated by it does show that they are also a hardware company to some degree.
And, uh, you are aware that the XBox360 is a followup to something called the XBox? I think that little piece of hardware may fall in to the "sophisticated" category.
Irrelevant. Apple enjoys an equally monopolistic position over *it's* customers and Apple is able to design some very nice hardware.
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers.
Like a hardware company named Apple, a company that has been producing sophisticated hardware for nearly 30 years? Oh yeah, they've never shipped with bad power supplies, bad batteries that could catch on fire,
If use of Apple offends you we could use HP (pre-Compaq), Intel, or a host of other companies to prove the same point.
You should contact the legal firm of Spiro Moss Barness, etc... They are one of many firms united in a class action lawsuit about the Thompson DVD drives that were used in the Xbox. Microsoft seem to have been aware of the lack of quality in these drives as later models used different manufacturers. Despite this, if you talk to their customer service reps, they continue to ask you if your discs are dirty despite the fact you tell them you just bought the damn game.
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I don't give a rat's ass about Sony's problems. I'm here to ask about the awful consumer experience I had with my original Xbox and what exactly is the truth about this new product. Here are links that show what a known issue those drives were.
http://sentientcreations.com/xboxIssues/problem.p
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/xbox_dvd_repai
Now there's an entire market based upon replacing your Xbox's DVD drive with a better one such as Samsung.
Microsoft's support solution: clean the disc. No matter how many times you tell them the disc is brand new, they say it's a dirty disc.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb
Then there was the power supply issue. A recall in which power cords were issued to cover up shoddy circuitry that could and did cause house fires. Mostly due to bad soldering. In the recall, older Xboxes were given power cords with breakers, so in the event of a short, you may burn out your Xbox but at least your house won't burn down.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/ar/
So a few weeks ago we started to see Xbox 360s in demo retail models showing the dreaded Error 74. Photograph of it here.
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000480066825/
Now we have reports of crashes that yes, are online and could be from a vocal minority, but I have never heard of or owned a console that crashes the way photographs show us is happening to the 360 - and let's remember the people complaining about it are the ones who braved the cold and the nuisance of picking one up.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/hours-old-a
Now apparently there is a fix in the form of suspending the power supply. People are finding it's working. Ergo, the power supply is defective. Just like the one on the original Xbox which was RECALLED.
Whatever marketing spiel Microsoft want to give, I want for them to answer one thing. What exactly is Error 74 and Error 79 - what does it mean is happening to the box. They have refused, as they did with the Thompson DVD drive, to let us know what is going wrong. Even if it isolated. Does it bode poorly for the future? Why is there a SPECIFIC error message already in the box's OS that is happening to people?
Now we know for certain that the machine is not only prone to overheating, there is an inbuilt error message related to it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907533/
And did you hear about how the tech support person told that guy to "wipe his video cables with a soft cloth"? Too rich.
** http://www.nkhumanrights.or.kr/ ** Human rights in North Korea. 1 million estimated dead from starvation.
Yeah, this just proves that MS doesn't get it when it comes to consumer electronics. Consumer electronics are used in the real world. That means they get used on carpet, the get crammed into cramped stereo cabinets, etc. You have to know how the product will be used and design it for that use, not try to design the use to your product. People just don't work that way. I think the more Sony sees, the less scared they are. MS can afford to continue to lose money on the consumer electronics sector, but at some point the shareholders are going to demand that they stop.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
[blockquote]Do not block any ventilation openings on the console or power supply. Do not place the console or power supply on a bed, sofa, or other soft surface that may block ventilation openings. Do not place the console or power supply in a confined space, such as a bookcase, rack, or stereo cabinet, unless the space is well ventilated.
Do not place the console or power supply near any heat sources, such as radiators, heat registers, stoves, or amplifiers.[/blockquote]
So where do I put it? Not everyone has a concrete pad with air conditioning running over it to play their games. This is an applicance like your stereo, like your tv, like most of the stuff people stuff into an entertainment center. It's insane that you have to have so much ventilation for a game system like that.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
The value of clean power is grosely exaggerated these days. Constant voltage is the real problem. An insufficiently rated (W) power supply will have trouble maintaining voltage expecially under varying loads. This is usually seen by crashes during games and random power downs.
The internal power circuitry of the cpu/mobo can easily "clean up" noisy power with a simple network of capacitors, however if the voltage is too low it can do nothing.
Eh, there are always excuses for stuff like this.
People manufacture or design bum power supplies all the time. It seems like once or twice a year there is a story on Slashdot about a major power supply recall. At least this one hasn't burned someone's living room down yet.
Who knows what happened with this incident. When I see an ID mishap such as this, it's usually because some idiot at a manufacturing plant in BFE didn't adhere to a design spec.
Since this problem didn't seem to show up with during the small preliminary manufacturing runs, and designers / engineers usually run heat and environment tests, it could probably be a problem with final manufacturing.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
"...The basement too - not that it's freezing cold down there this time of year or anything."
But how long would it stay cold with your 360 down there? :p
Maybe that's because you didn't read the manual, which says:
My most recent 20" box fan came with a manual. It says to never ever EVER put the fan in a window. The picture on the box shows it in a window. I have it in a window. It works fine there.
I have a humidifier, with a great big scary orange sticker on the inside of the lid, that actually says (paraphrased) "WARNING: If this unit becomes wet, unplug it, let it dry fully, and have it inspected by an authorized service technician before attempting to use it again". And what purpose does this lid, with so dire a warning, serve? You lift this particular lid to... FILL THE THING WITH WATER!
Virtually the entire warning section in most manuals exists solely for the purpose of helping the manufacturer fight off product liability suits. In the case of the box fan, some moron probably tried to use one in a window in the rain, and got zapped or burned his house down. That doesn't mean that I can't put a fan in the window on a nice sunny day, it just means if I do something stupid Lesko can say "see, we told you so!". For the humidifier, I don't quite know what they had in mind, but I have 100% confidence it involves covering their butts in some way.
So when the XBox360 says not to use it on a bed or sofa, which I expect accounts for where 99% of people would use it... Even those who read the warnings will tend to ignore it as just another sad attempt to protect Microsoft from morons.
Personally I don't see what's so interesting about this whole solve-a-problem-using-string story. Now MacGuyver, there's a guy who knows how to use string. I mean, in one episode of MacGuyver, MacGuyver builds a helicopter using string. And a little bit of duck tape, of course.
Hm, I've opened the PC, unscrewed the PS from the frame, suspended it on a string from the side of the desk, but the bloody Windows continues cras!@#$%^.....
You know, it was MS (and Sony) that decided that this "media center" should be residing in the living room. It was *their* idea that gaming should be centered around the TV, rather than around the PC. It was *their* idea that the next-gen consoles should be psuedo-DVRs, DVD players, music jukeboxes AND gaming machines.
If they want to compete in that arena, where VCRs, DVD players, stereos, and the last generation of consoles lived (and every console before that), then they better make damn sure their hardware works in that environement. After all, *they* are the ones that want to compete in the living room. The console must conform to the entertainment center, not the other way around...the $400 purchase simply won't drive the design of a living room for 95% of the people buying one (that number was made up...but I'm sure it is a vast majority).
If this is not the case, then the XBox360, PS3 and whatever else just become another type of PC, with an entire area set up to accomodate that particular piece of hardware. Trust me when I say that this is not what most consumers want, and is certainly ot what MS (Sony) wants. If we are going to do that, just get a nice PC and game there. At least PCs are upgradeable as you go along to accomodate new requirements as games come out.
The solution? Design a friggin' power supply that doesn't overheat when it sits on a carpeted floor, or in the back of a entertainment center. It's been done thousands of times before, and we need to see this for what it is: a defect. Just like the release of the PSP, just because the manual says that "8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels are normal and not a defect." doesn't *actually mean* that 8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels isn't a defect. MS can tell us that the power supply should be placed in the bottom shelf of your freezer to "properly" set up the XBox360, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem with the unit.
NOTE: I am not a bitter Xbox360 owner (I don't own one at all), just simply observing from the sidelines. I agree people should do their research, but that doesn't mean the company can make whatever demands they want on the consumer in the manual and they become reasonable.
Why not? It's a game console. Remember playing SMB with your friends when you were little? The nintendo would sit out in front of the TV on the floor and the game pads would connect to that, so you could sit on the furnature while playing.
Small kids play these game systems, everyone knows that. They should be built tough. I'm guessing the Xbox 360 is probably built tough, but it only takes a single weak part to ruin all of the effort.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Cast:
Adrian Wapcaplet: John Cleese
Mr. Simpson: Eric Idle
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah, come in, come in, Mr....Simpson. Aaah, welcome to Mousebat, Follicle, Goosecreature, Ampersand,
Spong, Wapcaplet, Looseliver, Vendetta and Prang!
Mr. Simpson: Thank you.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Do sit down--my name's Wapcaplet, Adrian Wapcaplet...
Mr. Simpson: how'd'y'do.
Wapcaplet: Now, Mr. Simpson... Simpson, Simpson... French, is it?
Mr. Simpson: No.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah. Now, I understand you want us to advertise your washing powder.
Mr. Simpson: String.
Adrian Wapcaplet: String, washing powder, what's the difference. We can sell *anything*.
Mr. Simpson: Good. Well I have this large quantity of string, a hundred and twenty-two thousand *miles* of it to be exact,
which I inherited, and I thought if I advertised it--
Adrian Wapcaplet: Of course! A national campaign. Useful stuff, string, no trouble there.
Mr. Simpson: Ah, but there's a snag, you see. Due to bad planning, the hundred and twenty-two thousand miles is in three
inch lengths. So it's not very useful.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, that's our selling point! "SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL STRINGETTES!"
Mr. Simpson: What?
Adrian Wapcaplet: "THE NOW STRING! READY CUT, EASY TO HANDLE, SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR
STRINGETTES - JUST THE RIGHT LENGTH!"
Mr. Simpson: For what?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uuuh..."A MILLION HOUSEHOLD USES!"
Mr. Simpson: Such as?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uhmm...Tying up very small parcels, attatching notes to pigeons' legs, uh, destroying household pests...
Mr. Simpson: Destroying household pests?! How?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, if they're bigger than a mouse, you can strangle them with it, and if they're smaller than, you flog
them to death with it!
Mr. Simpson: Well *surely*!....
Adrian Wapcaplet: "DESTROY NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF KNOWN HOUSEHOLD PESTS WITH PRE-SLICED,
RUSTPROOF, EASY-TO-HANDLE, LOW CALORIE SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR STRINGETTES, FREE
FROM ARTIFICIAL COLORING, AS USED IN HOSPITALS!"
Mr. Simpson: 'Ospitals!?!?!?!!?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Have you ever in a Hospital where they didn't have string?
Mr. Simpson: No, but it's only *string*!
Adrian Wapcaplet: ONLY STRING?! It's everything! It's...it's waterproof!
Mr. Simpson: No, it isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water resistant then!
Mr. Simpson: It, isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water absorbent! It's...Super Absorbent String! "ABSORB WATER TODAY WITH
SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL WATER ABSORB-A-TEX STRINGETTES! AWAY WITH FLOODS!"
Mr. Simpson: You just said it was waterproof!
Adrian Wapcaplet: "AWAY WITH THE DULL DRUDGERY OF WORKADAY TIDAL WAVES! USE SIMPSON'S
INDIVIDUAL FLOOD PREVENTERS!"
Mr. Simpson: You're mad!
Adrian Wapcaplet: Shut up, shut up, shut up! Sex, sex sex, must get sex into it. Wait, I see a television commercial - There's
this nude woman in a bath holding a bit of your string. That's great, great, but we need a doctor, got to have a medical opinion.
There's a nude woman in a bath with a doctor--that's too sexy. Put an archbishop there watching them, that'll take the curse
off it. Now, we need children and animals. There's two kids admiring the string, and a dog admiring the archbishop who's
blessing the string. Uhh...international flavor's missing...make the archbishop Greek Orthodox. Why not Archbishop
Macarios? No, no, he's dead... never mind, we'll get his brother, it'll be cheaper... So there's archbishop Macarios, his brother
and a doctor in the bath with this nude woman, two doctors and a dog....
Probably what the engineers did was "think" they had a thermally stable supply when in fact the lab bench acted like a big heatsink. The thermal resistance from a lab bench would be much less compared to carpet. Finally, lab supplies are regulated so well that even if you do place them in high heat, they maintain constant power even though they are hot. The process this uses is negative feedback, and given the correct choice of chip material for the power supply controller, should never be an issue. If it is an issue, go back to Asia and yell at your designers for giving you a crappy supply.
Good thing it's not summer over there, or there might be even more issues reported.
Can't wait for the Australian release - mid summer - with all the people who don't have air-conditioned homes trying to run this think in 35+ degress celcius and see what happens...
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
I'll keep watching to see if the forest fires will start from inside Sydney this year. Watch out for California as well, next summer! We might even get satellite images detailing XBOX360 distribution from all over the world. ;)
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
Why should it fall on the engineers?
Legal responsibility, that's why. The whole point of a Professional Engineer can be summed up as "the buck stops here, and I can vouch for every piece of the design, so if the design was followed, I agree (personally; not my company) to pay the penalties."
Most people don't know this, but 'Engineer' is not some phrase you can toss around or apply as desired. It's actually a legally defined term, such as 'Attorney,' 'Medical Doctor,' 'Registered Nurse,' or 'Senator'. As is the case with the title 'attorney' or 'M.D.', it's a criminal offense to call onself an Engineer if s/he don't have a Bachelors (or better) degree from an accredited university, as well as having been officially tested and licenced by the proper governmental authorities (and have the requisite number of years of experience in the field, and have your apprenticeship signed off by multiple Professional Engineers). You can't just tack the name 'Engineer' to a job and/or title; as is the case with Attorney, in which you have to be licensed by Bar, or a Medical Doctor, in which you have to be certified by the boards, an Engineer must also meet similar requirements.
The law was written to allow only competent, licenced individuals to make decisions that can have lethal consequences. Professional Engineers are quite aware of the consequences should they not perform their job with all dilligence.
While it's been fashionable lately for tech wannabies to tack the phrase 'Engineer' to their job description; ie. "Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer", or "Certified Netware Engineer", 'network engineer', this practice is illegal and punishible as fraud in most localities. (Microsoft can call it whatever they want; but technically, you can only say you have an MCSE certificate, not that you're an Engineer.)
The practice has really only survived because Engineers, in general, don't get all pissy about people abusing their official/professional title. Hell, I only mention it for education's sake: I have an Engineering degree, I legally can't call myself an Engineer for precicely this reason -- I'm not professionally licensed by the state (nor can I become licenced until I have a few years more experience). Yet when people ask, I tell them I'm an Engineer...
Of course, in the case of people misusing the title of Attorneys or Medical Doctors... I can understand the Doctors worrying-- I wouldn't want to find out my 'doctor' simply put the initials 'M.D.' on his front door. But who in their right mind would want to piss off the same profession that includes the prosecuting attorney, the judge, and the guy defending you?
In every state in the USA (and pretty much every other democratic nation), a Professional Engineer has to sign his (or her) name to every design before it can be sold and/or built. If the design is found to be faulty, civil cases (for money) can be brought against the company. Criminal cases can be brought against the engineer for his/her negligence. Such cases against engineers aren't uncommon (IIRC, it happened to the engineers who signed off the design of the World Trade Center).
Mechanical engineers are the ones who are (legally) responsible for any thermal issues involved in a design.
Electrical Engineers don't generally have to be professionally licenced; case in point: at my university, two of the EE professors are licenced. All of the ME professors are. EE students don't have to pass the FE (fundamentals of engineering) exam to get their degree; ME students do. The number of cases where it's required to be a licenced EE are currently quite small; the largest one is to be an expert witness in a court of law. But an ME needs the licence for just about everything he does.
A good part of this is difference is maturity: The understanding of electrical devices is only a couple of centuries old; however mechanical devices are a couple millenia more mature. I'm sure a century from now, an E
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
It is in Texas, where this nonsense was been repealed.
Which actually happens about 0.01% of the time. If the failure of the design won't turn somebody into a nasty smear or splatter, the law is universally ignored. With no consequences to the public. Welcome to the real world.
It has survived because prosecuting it would bring the wrath of the state legislature crashing down. As it did in Texas, when it was discovered that companies were being driven out of business by a state board dumb enough to believe their own pieces of paper, a state board who said with a straight face that the inventor of the integrated circuit was definitely not an engineer.
Have you actually read some of these laws? Like the one in my jurisdiction that requires not merely that the P.E. have a bachelors degree, but that it must come from an institution where every technical professor also has a PE (I.e., no institution on Earth grants qualifying degrees.)
Or the ones that define engineering so broadly that telling someone that two inches of styrofoam out to keep their six pack cool all day is a regulated act of engineering. So broadly that all radio hams must be PEs.
Wrong. The letter of the law requires all design threats to property to be licensed. Not just significant threats, all threats no matter how tiny. Every electronic device incorporating a totem-pole output must be approved by a PE (because the device will destroy itself if the upper and lower switches are turned on at the same time). That the device costs $0.08 and makes a light blink in a novelty toy powered by a AAA battery does not matter. It is Regulated Engineering and by god must be controlled.
Because writing aircraft fly-by-wire firmware and writing Hollywood graphics rendering software are both software engineering. Both require tremendous technical knowledge, the techniques for getting correct results are well established, and billions of dollars depend on each. Yet the required quality is drastically different. One must never fail, while it's OK if the other needs a full-time babysitter.
Licensure on the basis of knowledge, education, or task will always fail. Everyone will ingore it, and any engineering board foolish enough to try to enforce its regulations will be sternly corrected by their state legislature. The rational approach would be to draw up a list of particular types of designs that are regulated. E.g., airplanes, custom architecture, outdoor power lines, tanks operated above a pressure of N psi, and so forth.
And what if you could bring a particular software engineer to justice