Intel and Tivo Partner Up

yapplejax writes "Intel and Tivo are partnering on a PC platform in hopes to standardize the platform. From the Associated Press: 'The goal of the Viiv label, he said, is to avoid consumer confusion and questions over interoperability. It also will ensure the products will work when the PC is being controlled from a distance via a remote control.'"

Comments

What about Apple?

[CyricZ]

What about the rumours that Intel-based Mac Minis, possibly available as early as January, will offer similar capabilities?

Re:What about Apple?

[eshefer]

intel is not talking about that for obvious reasons (obvious to anyone who follows apple, annyway)

actually the article disscusses this, or in other words..

you didn't RTFA! nya nya nya!

"Corbett declined to comment on whether Apple Computer Inc. is participating in Viiv. Earlier this year, Apple announced that it would start using Intel microprocessors in its Macintosh computers, and it also has released entertainment PC-like software for its latest iMacs."

that was a direct quote from the article you didn't bother to read, for shame!

Re:What about Apple?

[doughrama]

Are you possibly suggesting a Tivo/Intel/Apple partnership? Or just that Intel may be hedging their bets by working with both Apple and Tivo... Or something altogether different.

I think a Tivo/Intel/Apple partnership plausible, though unlikely. Apple doesn't gain much by partnering with Tivo, in fact I think Apple loses by partnering with Tivo.

Intel of course wins either way, both companies still need chips etc...

Tivo is obviously in trouble, might they be trying to pretty themselves up for a buyout from Apple? Several years ago, just as the iPod/iTunes was taking off, I told a friend of mine that Apple's next move would be to buy Tivo... That it made sense. He agreed with me, and that was about the end of it. So far, I've obviously been wrong but I still think it could possibly be a good idea and possibly still happen.

Tivo has the strongest brand in the DVR market right now, I don't think there is any question about that. Their boxes for the most part do exactly what they are supposed to and they do it well. Problem is anybody can create a similar, comparable device. In this respect Tivo is Apple or Beta even. A superior product getting beaten down by a better marketed/positioned/priced inferior product. So Tivo's core business is clearly threatened by rip-off competitors. They have to move into a different market or die. Yes, as much as I like Tivo, they will die without doing something major.

Apple could acquire Tivo, and I think it might not be that bad of a deal. Though again I'm not sure what Apple would gain. Tivo would certainly gain respect and clout in eyes of media distributors/producers. Like iTunes has because of A. it's a great product (even if "you" don't care for it) and B. Steven Jobs/Pixar. For Apple, they'd gain instant living room credibility... Though from the looks of things (iStuff, you will buy it and you will like it) Apple doesn't need that credibility. Maybe I'm taking a look at it from the wrong angle. Apple doesn't need Tivo, but Apple might need to keep Tivo away from a competitor.

Regardless, fun times ahead.

Re:What about Apple?

[Ravatar]

Why on earth would he RTFA? It would only deny him an opportunity to get the article's first reply!

Re:What about Apple?

[doughrama]

Well, I certainly feel a little sheepish as I didn't RTFA. But I just read the one over at wired.com.

"Viiv owners will be able to put their PCs in a standby state with the press of a button and reawaken it instantly the same way."

Didn't Apple just purchase or sign agreements to purchase an insane amount Flash memory? So much that it seemed obvious that it was going to be used for something other than iPods. And wasn't the speculation that it would be used for instant or virtually instant on PC's?

Beyond that though, my previous comment about a possible Apple/Intel/Tivo article now seems totally rediculous. From the article, I speculate that Tivo got word of what Apple and Intel were working on and they wanted to play in their sandbox. Like I mentioned previously, I believe Tivo is doomed unless they do something fairly big.

Re:What about Apple?

[eshefer]

"Apple doesn't need Tivo, but Apple might need to keep Tivo away from a competitor."

and that my friend, is the reason your post should get +5 insightfull.

this is an interesting point most people don't see with regards to the apple-tivo rumors.

however, looking at past apple aquisitions, this is NOT a tactic apple uses (it's more microsofts style) - of all the aquisitions apple made that I know of the've all been to gain a software or hardware technology they wanted for products FAST - for example, they didn't buy konfabulator - which should have not cost them much, they did buy final cut from macromedia, idvd from astarte, logic and grageband from emagic, etc'.

but who knows. they might do that (or maybe ms will buy tivo - which I find more likely)

Viiv helps avoid confusion!

[Anonymous Coward]

Rocky 10: Adrian's Revenge! Or is that Rocky 12?

The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[dada21]

Tivo is in a world of hurt, from what I can tell. As one of the first Tivo users, my Tivo units just sit in the closet for the past few years.

Everything I see is pointing to the fact that people want on demand video more and more. The Pirate Bay's top downloads are consistently TV shows! Maybe it is because these shows are not available in Europe? Either way, people want TV when they want it, and they're willing to wait for a download of a show with no commercials and no price.

The profitability for a video provider is taking that 12-72 hour free download and turn it into a fast (real time?) download for the consumer when they want it. I'm not sure how we'll see this happen in the far future, but in the near future, it could just be On Demand from Comcast (which is actually pretty amazing) or Microsoft IPTV style downloads.

Tivo is wise to try to connect with Intel on selling their name as the "Video as you want it when you want it" brand. As an early adopter in almost everything, I can tell you my biggest complaints about Tv shows and movies are the following:

1. If I download a show, it is always in a codec that I can't view easily. AVC doesn't run well on any of my platforms (I mostly have 1.8Ghz P4s). XViD seems better, but I get odd pixelization on occasion. Intel has the power to combine with Tivo and offer a codec that is specific to their hardware platform, whereas illegal torrents aren't really targetted at anyone. I would gladly pay for that consistency. So would most adults.

2. I want it quick. Yesterday I had to redownload Quicktime and I was watching the download at aroun 850K/s. That's damn fast (I'm testing a new broadband provider right now). My neighbor's comcast cable was getting consistent 400K/s downloads. BitTorrent and other P2P systems halt at about 50K for me (with and without NAT). If I want to download a file, I want it near real time or faster.

3. I want to be able to pause, fast forward and rewind. I'm sick of getting movies that I have to re-encode beause someone screwed up and prevented me from skipping data.

4. I want it to look good at 720p and 1080i. There is nothing worse that trying to watch cable at 110" and seeing crap. I can watch DVDs from 6 years ago upcoverted to 1080i and they look great. There is no reason for bad quality images, even at reduced resolutions.

5. I want to be able to store it for the future or be able to redownload it at a cheaper price.

6. Rather that reconverting my shows for various watching formats (PDA, SDTV, HDTV or whatever) I should just have the option of redownloading it. I am currently converting an AVC to WMV for my PDA and it seriously says it will take 90 hours. Ouch.

7. I should be able to select my price to pay versus what I am willing to give up. In some situations I wouldn't mind paying less and be forced to watch ads. In other cases, I don't mind reporting what I fast forwarded past and rewound to review. It depends on what it is. I'd love to be able to say "I'll pay full price if I can keep it forever, never watch an ad, pause it as I'd like and rewind all I want" and also say "I'll pay zero but I will accept not being able to skip ads."

My fear is that Intel's VIIV and Microsoft's MCE are both looking to try to capitulate to a dying industry. I use Microsoft's MCE and absolutely love it but I won't upgrade to the latest patches that involve DRM. I am not against DRM, but I am against DRM that doesn't offer something to the end user.

Once a consumer tastes the sweetness of a new feature (even if illegal), there is NO way to back out of it. Instead, the market has been permanently changed and the suppliers need to modify their product to offer what the consumer is looking for.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[b0r1s]

Everything I see is pointing to the fact that people want on demand video more and more

This move is just yet another step in the line towards TV-over-IP. The big providers are already lining up, and the startups are hoping onboard. Guys like ManiaTV are going for the traditional route (centalized programming), while Vobbo and others are starting to look towards the amateur video broadcasting (public access TV for the internet - even easier, when you don't need a studio, just a webcam).

The big players will roll out their offerings in the next year or so, I believe. You'll start seeing 'interactive tv' first, until the ball starts rolling...

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[dada21]

I agree, and I think it will be a very bright and intersting future for smaller producers as well. I'm thinking of doing a video-style podcast shortly, in fact.

For me, the big "scare" for any mass market video or audio producer is the idea of massively available wireless broadband. For an anarchocapitalist such as myself, it is the opposite: not a scare in the least. The availability of information when we want it without being tied to our home or our business will really increase the destruction of the highly regulated and mercantilistic market that we cann the mass media.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[garcia]

Tivo is in a world of hurt, from what I can tell. As one of the first Tivo users, my Tivo units just sit in the closet for the past few years.

I could see in the past year or so but not before that. My DirecTivo works just fine (and is inexpensive) as I (would normally) pay for it as part of my service. I think it's $5/mo? Their recent mistakes have caused me to leave the standalone Tivo boxes and not recommend them to my parents but that doesn't mean they should sit in the closet if you already have one.

1. If I download a show, it is always in a codec that I can't view easily. AVC doesn't run well on any of my platforms (I mostly have 1.8Ghz P4s). XViD seems better, but I get odd pixelization on occasion. Intel has the power to combine with Tivo and offer a codec that is specific to their hardware platform, whereas illegal torrents aren't really targetted at anyone. I would gladly pay for that consistency. So would most adults.

I wouldn't pay for TV downloads any more than I already do w/my ISP/phone service. I have *never* had a codec issue with Windows after picking up one of those codec packs that includes just about everything you need.

I don't currently download TV episodes as I have DirecTivo but when I did I didn't give a shit what quality it was as long as it was commercial free and not fuzzy like my rabbit ears were.

2. I want it quick. Yesterday I had to redownload Quicktime and I was watching the download at aroun 850K/s. That's damn fast (I'm testing a new broadband provider right now). My neighbor's comcast cable was getting consistent 400K/s downloads. BitTorrent and other P2P systems halt at about 50K for me (with and without NAT). If I want to download a file, I want it near real time or faster.

Then you are misconfigured at your router or you have some other problem. I routinely have torrents hitting my bandwidth limits. Especially ones with a lot of people on them (recent concert releases, etc).

3. I want to be able to pause, fast forward and rewind. I'm sick of getting movies that I have to re-encode beause someone screwed up and prevented me from skipping data.

I don't have this problem, ever on pirated stuff. Only DVDs that won't let me skip the commercials leading up to the movie.

If you think that the TV content providers are going to not include commercials, you've got another thing coming. Once one does it they all will. Paying for it twice!

5. I want to be able to store it for the future or be able to redownload it at a cheaper price.

Storing is an option that I would *demand*. Re-downloading is not something I'd expect or even ask for. You downloaded it, you should be able to view it (regardless of what PC/media device you moved it to) forever w/o keys, etc. That won't ever happen though.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[dubiousmike]

it could just be On Demand from Comcast
 
On Demand is about 2.5 mbps

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with most of your comments (except for the anarchocapitalist, that's certainly not me, but I understand your principal even if I don't agree with the theory) - certainly the widespread availability of low cost, zero barrier to entry media is going to change the way the world works - different players will step forward (Google as an aggregrator, for example), so it'll replace one large entity with another, but the change will still be nice.

Slightly changing the topic - how long would you imagine your 'video-style podcast' would be? Is 5 minute clips sufficient? 10? 30? 60? How long can you keep yourself (and audience) entertained?

Trying to find a good number for my pet project in order to balance bandwidth costs with reasonable defaults.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Monoman]

This move is just yet another step in the line towards TV-over-IP. The big providers are already lining up, and the startups are hoping onboard.

I agree but can the Internet and ISPs handle the bandwidth load? They already cap bandwidth for some customers. Some ISPs offer different levels of DSL.

So when will TV-over-IP be affordable and at an acceptable quality for the average consumer?

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[petsounds]

Tivo is in a world of hurt, from what I can tell. As one of the first Tivo users, my Tivo units just sit in the closet for the past few years.

TiVo is in a world of hurt, but it's not because of some groundswell of demand for IP TV. They just couldn't hold onto their market. Their software is still better than anyone else's, but that doesn't always matter (betamax). I use TiVo with DirecTV every day, and why not? It's superb at what it does. I don't watch videos on my PC; I watch them on my TV. I also have little desire to watch video on a portable format. Video podcasting would probably be the only thing worth watching in that format.

I have downloaded video content and watched it via Xbox Media Center, but you know what? It's a pain in the ass. Nothing is streamlined or automated, there's no subscription features, and you never know what quality level you'll get. So, I agree that a better content distribution network should be in place, and I should be able to download a show from any channel/country I want without having to pay some premium for a channel subscription. However, I don't think the bell tolls for TiVo because of IP TV. I think most of America wouldn't even understand what the hell you're talking about.

The basic problem is though, it seems that the movie industry has turned out to be more greedy than the record labels. They don't want to get tied into an iTunes kind of deal where they feel like they have no bargaining power. But the fracturing of video content that we're already seeing, with various movie studios making deals with different "video-on-demand" services, is going to really impede any kind of progress in the short term. Add to that the fact that IP TV would totally change the face of cable television, and I just don't see anything like what you want happening (soon). There are far more entrenched interests in the world of video than the world of records.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[dada21]

I'll sign up for vobbo tonight, looks interesting.

I've done 3 test vidcasts in 3 years. They all received decent reviews (and my face isn't vid friendly haha). I'd like to do 2 7 minute casts daily. My breakdown is the following:

20 seconds: stock into
30 seconds: overview of episode
10 seconds: sponsorship clip
110 seconds : sequence 1 - talking head, graphs/images
10 seconds: sponsorship clip
120 seconds: sequence 2
30 seconds: 3x 10 second clips from other vidcasters
60 seconds: preview opinion of news to watch
20 seconds: definition or explanation of a topic
10 seconds: outro

IMy basic vidcasts would come at 5am and 3pm 7 days a week. Most could be performed on the road and u/l'd via "Starbucks" WiFi. In fact, I'd pursue a coffee chain as a sponsor.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[tacolicker]

I want it quick. Yesterday I had to redownload Quicktime and I was watching the download at aroun 850K/s. That's damn fast (I'm testing a new broadband provider right now). My neighbor's comcast cable was getting consistent 400K/s downloads. BitTorrent and other P2P systems halt at about 50K for me (with and without NAT). If I want to download a file, I want it near real time or faster.

Slow BT downloads are your fault for using a tracker where people are stupid. Go to a good tracker, you'll max out your connection very easily. Fuckass.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Anonymous Coward]

3. I want to be able to pause, fast forward and rewind. I'm sick of getting movies that I have to re-encode beause someone screwed up and prevented me from skipping data.

mplayer -idx ought to work...

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[TheRaven64]

My ISP currently gives me 2Mb/s downloads with a 30GB/month cap. Next year this will be 10Mb/s with a 75GB/month cap. Now, it's just about fast enough for video, if you've got a decent server. Grabbing video from the ISP's mirrors of popular content can be done in realtime. Next year it will be more than adequate. The other end of the scale is a different matter - the download server is going to need a few hundred to a few thousand times the bandwidth each user has - at the very least - in order to be able to give them data fast enough. The best solution is probably that adopted by the BBC - partner with ISPs, so they host your content for you in exchange for it not costing them any out-of-network bandwidth.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[TheRaven64]

Then you are misconfigured at your router or you have some other problem. I routinely have torrents hitting my bandwidth limits. Especially ones with a lot of people on them (recent concert releases, etc).

Bittorrent generally gives you the a dowload rate proportional to your upload rate. If your upload rate. If you are on an asymmetric connection, you might not saturate your downstream.

The second problem is that if you don't throttle your uploads slightly, they will saturate your upstream pipe and this will cause TCP ACKs to be lost / delayed. When this happens, TCP will automatically throttle your downloads from the other end. If you're using OpenBSD (or FreeBSD with pf) as a firewall, you can set it to prioritize TCP ACKs. If not, then it's generally a good rule of thumb not to set your upload speed to more than about 80% of your bandwidth.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Monoman]

What happens when *most* of your ISP's customers really start using the bandwidth up to the limitations. I suspect the ISPs are going to have to rething pricing and policies ... or both.

I do agree that the content providers on the other end are going to have a rude awakening unless they start embracing some other distribution methods (i.e. torrents).

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[jedidiah]

Nevermind Tivo. PVR is old news. Software control of DVD jukeboxes is close at hand. When this happens you will have easy and cheap access to 10's of terrabytes of video content. Nevermind cable, you'll be able to have your own custom TV station. Just spend what you would on cable on DVD's.

        Buy used and out of walmart bargain bins and you can have more legimate content than you will know what to do with.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[garcia]

Bittorrent generally gives you the a dowload rate proportional to your upload rate. If your upload rate. If you are on an asymmetric connection, you might not saturate your downstream.

It gives you a percentage of your upstream. If you're giving 0kB/s it's likely you won't get anything downstream (thus the misconfigured router statement). I routinely limit my upstream to 15 to 20kB/s and max my downstream.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[TheRaven64]

This year they have been doing serious upgrading work to their network. Next year, they are moving everyone to 10Mbit (currently they offer 1-3Mbit), and changing their pricing model to charge people based on usage, rather than maximum speed. I think that their new pricing model is quite sensible...

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[blurryrunner]

I think a cool idea is to have the commercial come on and have a little thing on the side that says pay $0.25 to skip these commercials. That way, you could start out free, but toward the end when things are getting really tight, you click and pay to skip the commercial. You can watch the commercials at the beginning when you aren't so attached (and pay for part of the show through ads), and then you wont get killed when they break for commercials at the climax of the show. That's what kills me, is the commercials at the end right before the climax. They've got you glued.

Of course, there is a lot of potential for abuse, but I don't think anybody would be happy if you had to pay more than the commercial free cost to skip the last set of commercials (though the station would probably charge more to skip those).

Just a thought...

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to be clarify: you get a download that's "proportional" to your upload. Even with an ADSL (2Mbps down, 288 up) you can still saturate the connection. It would be silly to limit uploads to the same rate as downloads, since there are lots of asymmetric connections and restricting them merely reduces the amount of people who have parts of the file that others are looking for. In simple terms, it sabotages the torrent flow. Hence the "proportional" -- you can't limit your uploads to 2kbps and expect to max out a very fat pipe, but it's not overly restrictive.

Re:The future as I'd want it (early adopter)

[Alucard454]

you dont happen to have any of these test vidcasts available online or in an emailable form, eh?
this stuff interests the hell out of me, but being an academic, my primary exposure to such things comes in the form of a lot of people saying a lot of things... and then doing precisely nothing. such is the way of the academic world.

enough already

[Anonymous Coward]

these ideas never work, they cost too much, and they always have overly restrictive DRMs

Re:enough already

[netkid91]

The average, now AVERAGE, obviously if you visit /. you are NOT 'average' person doesn't care about DRM, UNLESS it contains a Rootkit or it prevents them from doing something they should be able to do, like ripping a CD to copy to your MP3 player. Also just to shut people up about Sony and the rootkit, don't blame all of Sony, for one they didn't know(maybe?), and second only Sony BMG is to blame, Sony Electronics etc.. do their own thing and had nothing to do about it. Anwyas, the only part of the parent that will matter to a 'average' consumer is cost.

"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[CyricZ]

For those wondering how to pronounce "Viiv", the article states that it rhymes with "five".

I can see that name causing much confusion. Imagine a granny at an electronics boutique asking how much one of these "Veevee" systems costs. The salespeople may very well not understand what she's asking about.

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[theantipop]

I guess you've never worked retail. You learn to speak "customer" pretty quick. All you have to do is forget everything you know about what you're selling and you're on the same boat they are.

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[digitaldc]

Now that you have cleared that up, how do you pronounce 'Zndovzny?'

/. minds think alike (see my post below)

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that you have cleared that up, how do you pronounce 'Zndovzny?'
Rhymes with "ascerbic butthole". :)

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[everphilski]

Oh, AC, how right you are, how right you are... I was gonna say "rhymes with spamming troll" but I think you captured it quite succinctly

-everphilski-

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[Da_Biz]

I was thinking more "restating what we read about yesterday."

Honestly, Cyric, originality PLEASE.

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[GigG]

For those wondering how to pronounce "Viiv", the article states that it rhymes with "five". I can see that name causing much confusion. Imagine a granny at an electronics boutique asking how much one of these "Veevee" systems costs. The salespeople may very well not understand what she's asking about

I'll bet you are to young to remember when Nike first hit the market?

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[Anonymous Coward]

ViiV also is 64
Vi = 6
iV = 4

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[drinkypoo]

That's okay, most places that sell shit like that (for example, circuit shitty or worst buy) hire salesdroids who don't care enough to learn jack shit about anything they're selling anyway. I don't know how many times I've gone to a place like that and had to explan to employees what certain connections are called on the backs of TVs.

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds something like: trolling self-important wanker!

Re:"Viiv" rhymes with "five".

[CyricZ]

Actually, I was probably about 45 or so when Nike started getting big.

Indeed, there was much confusion regarding their name. That's why it's usually pronounced like "Neyekee" in America, while in Britain (where I am) we pronounce it as if it rhymes with "Like".

But, but, but...

[eno2001]

...what about Microsoft? Microsoft and Intel have done soooo much to make the PC a standard already. How much more standard can you get without being fascists like Apple?

Re:But, but, but...

[MSFanBoi2]

Read the article where it says:

All will run Microsoft Corp.'s Windows Media Center operating system

Re:But, but, but...

[eno2001]

You actually chose that Slashdot UID of your own free will? ;P

OK. Time to change my tune [record selector arm drops a new 45]. But, but, but... wasn't Tivo a Linux company or something? What happened? Are they going to turn their backs on their alliance with the Linux corporation and stab them in the back by joining with Microsoft and Intel???? What's going to happen to all the open source stuff that Tivo was making like MythTV and Freevo? Oh woe is me!!!

Toss the monthly fees Tivo!

[gasmonso]

I will never give up my Shuttle/SageTv combination because I have no monthly fees and it works the way I want it to. There's a huge community support and it's more powerful than a Tivo. Lose the monthly fees Tivo and work with Intel to make transferring media to/from it easier. When you've done that, maybe I'll give it the time of day.

gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/

Standardized DRM?

[CyricZ]

Is this more just an effort to create a standardized DRM platform?

Indeed, the financial benefits for both TiVo and Intel could be significant, especially if the entertainment industry gets on board.

Re:Standardized DRM?

[OzPhIsH]

Is this more just an effort to create a standardized DRM platform?

No. This is 100% about DRM for the coming convergence of the internet/PCs and television. To think it is really about anything else is foolhardy.

Wha?

[Volanin]

From the article:

- It also will ensure the products will work[...]

- All will run Microsoft Corp.'s Windows Media Center operating system.

Hmmm... something feels really paradoxical here...

Re:Wha?

[CyricZ]

I know it's not a popular truth, but the fact of the matter is that the Windows NT-based releases are quite stable. They're nothing like the completely unstable and, quite truthfully, horrible Windows 95, 98 and ME releases.

Windows XP Media Center Edition is, as the name suggests, based off of Windows XP, which is a derivative of Windows NT.

Re:Wha?

[Da_Biz]

I know it's not a popular truth, but the fact of the matter is that the Windows NT-based releases are quite stable.

Quite frankly, I don't know if what you're saying is necessarily true:

"The problems with Media Center Edition continue to be the same ones that have plagued it all of its short lived life: 1) cost, and 2) stability."
http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i =2240&p=17

Re:Wha?

[Ravatar]

The best bet is to control the stability as much as possible through the use of MCE certified drivers, MCE certified hardware, and avoiding things like aggressive memory timings and most definitely overclocking.

If this is what the author considers unacceptable standards (to use certified drivers/hardware and avoid overclocking), then I would not give much thought to the rest of his article.

You can buy a nice MCE machine for less than $900, with specs comparable to a computer that would cost about $800+ to make anyway. Or, upgrade to MCE and buy a tuner card for less than 200 dollars.

Good graphic

[OYAHHH]

Good graphic,

The Register has a good graphic per this announcement. See it at the bottom if the following page:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/tivo_backs _intel_viiv/

Corbett is an idiot

[LanMan04]

From TFA: "We basically accelerated the heck out of Wi-Fi," Corbett said. "We plan to do the same thing around digital entertainment."

Oh yeah, without Intel hardly anyone would be using Wi-fi! Thank you Centrino for making such a huge difference in the Wi-fi marketplace!

What an ass.

Re:Corbett is an idiot

[Homology]

From TFA: "We basically accelerated the heck out of Wi-Fi," Corbett said. "We plan to do the same thing around digital entertainment."

Oh yeah, without Intel hardly anyone would be using Wi-fi! Thank you Centrino for making such a huge difference in the Wi-fi marketplace!

What an ass.

To echo this sentiment, here is the OpenBSD WiFi recommendations:

Note that in order to use the Intel-based cards, you will need to acquire the firmware files, which Intel refuses to allow free distribution of, so they can not be included with OpenBSD. Contact Intel to let them know what you feel about this, or to let them know what other product you have purchased instead.

Other manufacturers, such as Broadcom, Texas Instruments and Connexant have actively fought our attempts to develop free drivers for their products. We encourage you to respect their wishes by not buying their products. Realtek, Ralink, Atmel, and ADMtek make good products and support the open source community's desire for free drivers, and have earned our support and business.

Re:Corbett is an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

Odd, you seem to think Linux and BSD matter out in the real world, in terms of Wi-Fi adoption.

Wi-Fi is adopted because of access from commodity laptops, nobody gives a rat's ass about OpenBSD or Linux in that space.

Re:Corbett is an idiot

[vivek7006]

"Note that in order to use the Intel-based cards, you will need to acquire the firmware files"

Intel has released centrino drivers under GPL http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/ Firmware is freely also downloadable. Do you want them to release firmware also as open-source?

Some people just have to complain. Stop cribbing.

Re:Corbett is an idiot

[mduell]

As the GP said, the firmware is freely downloadable. But OpenBSD can't include the file in their distribution; you have to download it from Intel.

This produces and interesting situation

[BattleRat]

given the fact the everyone's favorite monopoly, Microsoft, has just recently partnered with CableLabs to produce a CableCard capture device for watching and capturing HDTV on a Windows based PC. The question remains on how this will impact the Tivo/Intel deal, given that Tivo is Linux based. Will the next generation (or future generations) need a set-top-box in addition to the Intel/Tivo (InTivo?) just to get HD content? If there is a standard for PC/DVRs, what would prevent MS from slapping on Windows MCE 200x on it? Is MS the only way in the future for HD? Things will get interesting... http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/Micr osoftCableCARDXbox360.php

Avoid confusion?

[Anonymous Coward]

The goal of the Viiv label, he said, is to avoid consumer confusion

I'm confused by how to even pronounce Viiv.

Re:Avoid confusion?

[generic-man]

You're reading it upside down. It's an inside joke to the guy's logic class.

ViiV -> /\!!/\

"AND!! AND"

fine, now where is my hd tivo?

[asv108]

I've been waiting for standalone hdtv tivo since I purchased my series2 three years ago. How can a technology company not release a major product revision in nearly three years? Instead of releasing new products, Tivo seems to be worrying a lot more about partnering, catering to content companies(DRM), fiddling with the pricing model, and minor software updates rather than producing any real innovations.

Re:fine, now where is my hd tivo?

[Wesley Felter]

The (working) HD Tivo is being held back by the too-little-too-late OpenCable standard, which I suspect was sabotaged by the Motorola/Scientific Atlanta cable box duopoly. You will use the cable box provided by the cable company, and you will like it.

Re:fine, now where is my hd tivo?

[bigpat]

for $90 you can buy a PCI HD tuner card, ATI Technologies 100-714127 HD-TV All-in-Wonder, through Amazon which comes with software for recording and live tv pausing. They even throw in an antenna and remote control with USB IR dongle.

It runs on Windows only, but there is another company that is providing a linux only card.

Re:fine, now where is my hd tivo?

[mjpaci]

That would be the Motorola/Cisco cable box duopoly...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051118-5597 .html

Re:fine, now where is my hd tivo?

[level_headed_midwest]

"How can a technology company not release a major product revision in nearly three years? Instead of releasing new products, Tivo seems to be worrying a lot more about partnering, catering to content companies(DRM), fiddling with the pricing model, and minor software updates rather than producing any real innovations."

Hmm. Maybe they're just taking a page from Microsoft's book.

Which one?

[Volanin]

So... which one is better?

viiv or emacsscame?

No flamewar intentions.
Karma burn mode on!

Re:Which one?

[Anonymous Coward]

"viiv or emacsscame?"

Ha! I thought we all GNU better than to use recursive puns on ./

What does this do fot Tivo anyway?

[jdehnert]

This could be OK for Tivo.

Like one of the previous posters I am an early Tivo adopter too, but unlike him, I have 2 units (series 1 and 2) that i use every day.

I still like Tivo better that the alternatives, but I have to admit that the alternatives are getting better all the time and Tivo is making it easier for them to catch up and doing themselves no favors in the process.

I'm not sure what the partnership with Intel is going to buy them though. Are they switching to intel CPU's?

I have Tivo2Go on both my Mac's and PC's and it works fine in both cases, so what does Viiv get me as a consumer?

Personally, I'm looking forward to an Apple PVR, especially if that integrate an iTunes server into the package (and perhaps an iPhoto server as well).

Besides, DRM is probably going to cripple all of this anyway, and like most people, if I have to jump through to many hoops to watch things the way I wana watch them, I'm just not going to do it.

Contrary to what the MPAA, RIAA, and TV execs believe, I am not going to change my habits to mesh with their wishes. If I can't have it my way, I'll just do something else all-together.

Add this to the FCC Cable a-la-carte news.

Perhaps I can cut my cable bill in half soon when I dump this stupid ass package I HAD to get just to get Speed TV to watch the F-1 races. Gimme basic cable at 1/2 what I'm paying now and Speed for an additional $2/month.

Oil and Water

[overshoot]

Oh, this just gets better all the time.

Aside from the fact that the South Fork team is still revising their project architecture, at least so far it's all been so completely Microsoft-based that the team was shocked to find out that Apple wasn't MS-based.

Now they're trying to sweep TiVO (Linux) and Apple (BSD) into the Borg Collective at the same time that it's supposed to go gold next month.

I can understand why long-time Intel employees call it "East Fucked."

English language exhausted!

[ecklesweb]

From TFA... "Viiv, which rhymes with 'five'..."

No. No, it doesn't. Why would it? If they wanted it to rhyme with "five", they should have spelled it "Vive". I can only come to the conclusion that marketing droids have finally fully exhausted the English language...sorry, no more words exist to define your brilliant new concept. But, that's OK, because they're creative. They just start making up new combinations of letters, deciding how they want them pronounced, and voila! a new word.

I'll go back under my rock now...

remote control?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It also will ensure the products will work when the PC is being controlled from a distance via a remote control."

That begs the question: By who? :-)

Reuters Link

[yapplejax]

Reuters has a bit on this as well: Intel working with companies in entertainment push

No...

[everphilski]

It does rhyme with five.

if it were "viv" it would rhyme with "Liv" or "give". (short vowel)

if it were "viiv" it would have the long vowel sound, like "leet" or "street" hence souding like "five" which also has a long vowel sound. Two different methods of making that long vowel sound.

-everphilski-

Re:No...

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on that assumption (double 'e' makes long 'e' sound), that would mean words like shoot, root, boot should be pronounced with the long 'o' sound, which would be wrong.

Based on current double 'i' words (radii, genii, Hawaii) it would be pronounced with a long 'e' followed by a long 'i,' or a long 'i' followed by a long 'e.'

I, however, believe they are simply making words up.

-everwrongski-

Re:No...

[everphilski]

Dear mr. AC person: "i shoot the bb gun" is pronounced with a long 'o' sound. Look it up at www.m-w.com; long 'o' pronunciation symbol (double-dots over the o). Not sure what crack your smoking. Also, 'radii' is not pronounced the same as 'hawaii'. In case you weren't paying attention in English, there are exceptions to the rule.

-everphilski-

Re:No...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't english grate?!!!

Re:No...

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking up 'shoot' on the page you suggested reveals the long 'u' sound, a 'u' with double-dots.

'Radii' and 'Hawaii' are not pronounced the same, I did not suggest that they were.

Nowhere will you find a double-i word pronounced with the long 'i' sound, and the precedent you suggested of two vowels making their own long sound is incorrect.

-everwrongski-

Re:No...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your: of or relating to you or yourself or yourselves especially as possessor or possessors.

You're: you are.

Yours truly,

Grammar Nazi

Re:No...

[CyricZ]

You should have used you're, rather than your.

Please do not make such grammatical mistakes in the future.

Re:Remember, 'ViiV' rhymes with 'Live'

[Anonymous Coward]

What? ViiV rhymes with Live as in "I live in NY" so it must also rhyme with Give? ;)

Wrong and right

[esconsult1]

As long as you have broadcast TV, Cable and Satellite, (all tv on the producer's schedule), then you'll need a box like Tivo to timeshift and commercial skip. Sure, Tivo is getting ready for the future, and they're in a good place (so long as they prepare a new box with high speed connections and streaming capability). But to say that Tivo's dead is just a little shortsighted.

Consumers are in two camps. Passive and Active. We're active consumers of media so its no big deal for us, but Joe six loves what Tivo and his sisters do for him. Enough six packs (about 90%) don't have PVR's and just passively consume media. This is where content producers shift eyeballs to advertisers. And the way how they get paid to produce content too. There too much politics, jobs, infrastructure and inertia piled up for an overnight shift.

Right now there ain't enough of us actives out there to pay enough for production of our favourite content by subscriptions. Believe me, I want everything that the first poster said too, but at least I am realistic in the short term.

Re:Wrong and right

[Speare]

This is where content producers shift eyeballs to advertisers. And the way how they get paid to produce content too.

You think of this the wrong way around: content producers get paid to deliver commercials; they produce content designed to achieve this goal. They're not artists who need to find some way to make a living from their creativity, they're packaging engineers who find the cheapest but most appealing superficial wrapper around the real payload of advertisements.

Re:Wrong and right

[utexaspunk]

Joe six loves what Tivo and his sisters do for him

Does Joe Six come from rural West Virginia or Arkansas or something? That's sick...

So the mac rumours are true then?

[evil_breeds]

I guess someone else believes the mac mini-as-dvr rumours then too. Personally, I've been jonesing for a mini since they came out and the dvr/media centre functionality ought to do it - never mind tivo and it's singular focus.

Re:So the mac rumours are true then?

[queenb**ch]

Yeah, right, with a 32MB proprietary video card? *Shrug* I'm sure you'll get greaaat resolution out of that.

2 cents,

Queen B

PS: There is a heavily upgraded mini at my house. About the only thing you can't upgrade fairly simply is the video card.

Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[queenb**ch]

1. Frankly, I love my TiVO. I can watch MORE TV with it since I can skip the commercials. If you know the right things to push on the remote, you don't have to watch the ads. A "60" minute show becomes something more like 40 real minutes of programming. That means that in the same 2 hour time period, I can watch 3 shows instead of two.

2. Codecs really aren't a problem for my TiVO. If there's a show or movie coming on, I can TiVO and watch it at my leisure any time later. I even have the option to burn it to DVD, complete with the ever-so-user friendly TiVO interface.

3. While I am dependent on what is offered, I have sattelite and have such a wide selection of channels, I don't really feel the need for "on demand" anything.

4. Your problems with resolution, pause/fast forward, and speed aren't one of my issues. My TiVo encodes everything perfectly and it manages to do most of its work either while I'm at work or asleep.

5. My ISP recently upgraded our service. We now have a 7MB/sec connection complete with fiber coming into our home. Our price for this - $36/month. We have plenty of bandwidth to download anything we want. Again, with 500+ channels to choose from and a TiVO to catch whatever I want whenever it's shown, I don't really feel the need for it.

6. I would like to be able to take the things I TiVO and load them on to my laptop. TiVO says that the hold up on this is not them, not technology, but the MPAA. Given that, I doubt you'll be seeing this any time soon from anyone. It would certainly make for a more intersting commute to and from work.

7. I agree that you should be able to balance price vs. features to what ever you are comfortable with, can afford, etc.

If this joint venture with Intel can make the thing I've come to adore better, than I'm all for it. If they're looking to add a bunch more DRM crap to my TiVO, I'm going to be fighting mad.

2 cents,

Queen B

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[geekoid]

" I can watch MORE TV with it since I can skip the commercials. "

exactly the kind of viewer they don't give a crap about.
It'sd like saying "I go to resurant X because ther soda is free." If all you do is drink the free soda, they really don't want your ass there.

also, they make TiVo with DVD burners. So I doubt the hold up is the MPAA.

TiVo can only record what goes through your TV, it can't find stuff that isn't broadcast. So no downloaded shows for TiVo.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[melandy]

exactly the kind of viewer they don't give a crap about.
It'sd like saying "I go to resurant X because ther soda is free." If all you do is drink the free soda, they really don't want your ass there.

That's not really an accurate analysis. You imply that the GP is getting something for nothing, in this case free tv with no commercials. In reality, it's not free TV. For example, say you are a directv subscriber who has a tivo: you are paying both directv and tivo (by proxy) to use the service. This is not free. So the GP wants to skip commercials in something that they have *already paid for*.

So to update your analysis, if the GP paid a cover charge to get into the diner, and paid a service fee to sit down at one of the bar stools, and drank "free" soda, then yes, the diner would absolutely want them there... as often as they want to come (supplies for a soda fountain are dirt cheap).

Note: all instances of "free" in the above refer to free as in beer, not free as in Stallman.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[JourneymanMereel]

6. I would like to be able to take the things I TiVO and load them on to my laptop. TiVO says that the hold up on this is not them, not technology, but the MPAA. Given that, I doubt you'll be seeing this any time soon from anyone. It would certainly make for a more intersting commute to and from work.

While I've not personally tried it, I'm pretty sure there are scripts for MythTV that allow for a recorded show to be converted into other video formats. While I'm sure it's not nearly as easy to set up as TiVO from what I've been able to tell it has more features and expandability (though I've never had a TiVO, so I can't compare).

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[Blackforge]

6. I would like to be able to take the things I TiVO and load them on to my laptop. TiVO says that the hold up on this is not them, not technology, but the MPAA. Given that, I doubt you'll be seeing this any time soon from anyone. It would certainly make for a more intersting commute to and from work.

Can't really tell if you have a stand alone TiVo or not, but if you do what is stopping you from loading this on your laptop? As long as you have Tivo Desktop 2.x, the proper codecs, and you set your media access key, you should be able to watch the shows all on your laptop. Thats what TiVoToGo is for!

Oh and you shouldn't watch TV while you're driving to work ;)

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I can watch MORE TV with it since I can skip the commercials. If you know the right things to push on the remote, you don't have to watch the ads.

Last time I tested a Tivo there was no 30 second skip ahead, or 20 second skip back function available without a hack. Is this still the case? My mother isn't going to hack anything. I'm still looking for an out of the box component that she can us that will let her easily skip commercials.

Codecs really aren't a problem for my TiVO. If there's a show or movie coming on, I can TiVO and watch it at my leisure any time later. I even have the option to burn it to DVD, complete with the ever-so-user friendly TiVO interface.

I know some Tivo now allow burning to DVD. Do they allow you to edit the show first to eliminate recorded material before and after and eliminate commercials? It is also my understanding that Tivo honors the broadcast flag and will auto delete shows and refuse to burn shows that have that flag set. While that is not a big deal these days, I certainly don't want to invest in technology that obeys someone else before me in the future. My current PVR ignores the broadcast flag and allows easy editing and burning of shows, but is not one easy box, such as I could install for a relative or friend in 5 minutes.

would like to be able to take the things I TiVO and load them on to my laptop. TiVO says that the hold up on this is not them, not technology, but the MPAA.

My current PVR is commercially sold and exports to six or seven different formats with no DRM and files play just fine on my laptop. The MPAA hasn't said "boo" about it and has no legal grounds to do so. Tivo has not implemented it because they have cushy partnerships with the cable and satellite companies and don't want to jeopardize them, not because of the MPAA.

I used to hope Tivo would champion the end user and make a great, easy to use PVR, without any of the DRM or other crap the content producers/distributors were pushing for. In my opinion, however, they have sold out and intentionally crippled their products in exchange for being automatically distributed by the cable and satellite companies. That is a good, safe business move, but does not serve the end user and hopefully will result in Tivo being marginalized by a new player who does serve my best interests.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[Cro Magnon]

Last time I tested a Tivo there was no 30 second skip ahead, or 20 second skip back function available without a hack. Is this still the case? My mother isn't going to hack anything. I'm still looking for an out of the box component that she can us that will let her easily skip commercials

There is an undocumented 30 second skip, but I don't use it myself, and I don't remember off the top of my head how to do it. I usually just FF past the commercials, and Tivo's FF is much faster than ye olde VCR's, and just as easy.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[Anonymous Coward]

In reality, it's not free TV. For example, say you are a directv subscriber who has a tivo: you are paying both directv and tivo (by proxy) to use the service. This is not free. So the GP wants to skip commercials in something that they have *already paid for*.

Hate to play devil's advocate here, but they've paid for the delivery mechanism, not the content itself. The content is paid for by the commercials.

Until that changes, the networks are going to be grumpy with any solution which allows one to skip commericials.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[Anonymous Coward]

TiVo can only record what goes through your TV, it can't find stuff that isn't broadcast. So no downloaded shows for TiVo.

I've received CNET review video clips over the Internet and others have received movies as part of TiVo's video download trials. A deal with Netflicks for video download rentals was rumored a while back.

Also, I don't understand the GP's wish for TiVo to laptop video transfers-- isn't that exactly what TiVo ToGo is for?

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I tested a Tivo there was no 30 second skip ahead, or 20 second skip back function available without a hack. Is this still the case? My mother isn't going to hack anything. I'm still looking for an out of the box component that she can us that will let her easily skip commercials.

Hey buddy, try Google! Here's a hint: Select - Play - Select - 30 - Select. (Replace 30 with whatever value works for you.) I'm not sure I'd call that a "hack." More like a code... Remember Contra on the NES? Select - Start - B - A -B - A - Start, or something like that????

I know some Tivo now allow burning to DVD. Do they allow you to edit the show first to eliminate recorded material before and after and eliminate commercials?

So, six buttons on the remote is a "hack," but editing digital video streams is easy like pie? So easy that your mom will do it rather than hit the fast forward button for a few seconds? Ok, Chief.

I used to hope Tivo would champion the end user and make a great, easy to use PVR, without any of the DRM or other crap the content producers/distributors were pushing for.

DRM is pretty much the law these days (for better or worse.) Sure, some DVRs ignore it, but they're either open source hacks or grey / third market units that do about two dollars a year in sales. Sorry man, that's just how it is and Tivo isn't going to be able to fix it. Of course if you're part of the 2% that care, you can make Tivo ignore DRM with a pretty simple hack. (A "real" hack that involves a screw driver and some cable swapping, but pretty easy just the same.)

In my opinion, however, they have sold out and intentionally crippled their products in exchange for being automatically distributed by the cable and satellite companies. That is a good, safe business move, but does not serve the end user and hopefully will result in Tivo being marginalized by a new player who does serve my best interests.

If "intentionally crippled" = "followed the law so that they could stay in business," then yeah, I gues they sold out. So what? That's what companies are supposed to so.... As far as being marginalized, I really doubt it. Most people are going to use whatever DVR content provider X offers them. Since Comcast is one of (if not the) biggest cable companies in the US, and they will soon use Tivo exclusively, Tivo will automatically get plenty of market share. Add that to Tivo's existing customer base and name recognition and anyone else will be marginalized by definition. Sure, there'll be a couple of companies that sell rebranded DVRs to the clueless, cheap, disinterested, (and of course the MythTV / Windows Media Center hackers,) but they'll all share the 20% (or less) of the market that Tivo doesn't care about because it's not profitable.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Hey buddy, try Google!

OK, so there is an easter egg that makes the "skip to the end" skip forward. It might even be labeled in such a way that it is not completely confusing. How about the 20 second jump back? Skipping ahead 30 seconds is great and all, but it often results in going slightly past the end of the commercials. Half the functionality I want hidden in a easter egg is not exactly what I, as a consumer, want for my PVR. Part of Tivo's appeal is that they are easy to use and ready out of the box. This just does not cut it.

So, six buttons on the remote is a "hack," but editing digital video streams is easy like pie?

I, and several friends and family, like to archive favorite shows and movies to disk. My current PVR includes a simplistic editor for cutting out commercials. That means I can fit six episodes per DVD instead of four. That is a significant cost savings and it means I don't have to worry about skipping commercials the second time I watch something. It is easy enough that no one who has tried it has had a problem. You select the beginning of the commercial, click a button, and select the end. When all the portions you want removed are highlighted you click the other button and it re-encodes the episode, minus those portions. I think that it has four buttons and a slider including the advanced features.

DRM is pretty much the law these days (for better or worse.) Sure, some DVRs ignore it, but they're either open source hacks or grey / third market units that do about two dollars a year in sales.

No it isn't the law and you'd think someone who posts here should know that. There is nothing illegal about not adding DRM to video you record yourself. This is the same thing as a VCR and they are legal. Implying otherwise and referring to products not made by companies tightly working with the content distributors as "gray market" is just FUD that attempts to shift the blame away from Tivo. They sold you out, deal with it.

Most people are going to use whatever DVR content provider X offers them. Since Comcast is one of (if not the) biggest cable companies in the US, and they will soon use Tivo exclusively, Tivo will automatically get plenty of market share.

Yup, nothing at all wrong with a government mandated monopoly (only one set of cable lines is legally allowed in most localities in the US) bundling a new device with that monopoly service and subsidizing the cost with their current monopoly. Nope sounds kosher to me.

Sure, there'll be a couple of companies that sell rebranded DVRs to the clueless, cheap, disinterested, (and of course the MythTV / Windows Media Center hackers,) but they'll all share the 20% (or less) of the market that Tivo doesn't care about because it's not profitable.

So here's the thing about companies that don't serve their customers best interests, they get killed when someone does. The cable companies made a deal with Tivo because they were caught with their pants down. They bought out Tivo to buy time. Someone else will make a PVR that does what Tivo should have and unless the cable companies can get entrenched enough and get laws passed to mandate DRM and restrict the decoding of that DRM then that new player or players will crush Tivo. As it is, calling people who use MythTV and other solutions that provide more and better functionality "clueless" is a bit backwards, don't you think? After all, I can easily skip commercials, edit and burn DVDs, and I have my choice of scheduling services (including the one I use that has no fee). To me that is superior to the results I can get from a Tivo and at a much better price. I'd call people who use the inferior Tivo service at greater cost, because they don't know any better the "clueless" ones here.

Re:Fight You to Keep My TiVO

[makohund]

>OK, so there is an easter egg that makes the "skip to the end" skip forward. It might even be labeled in such a way that it is not completely confusing.

It is quite easy to do. It's pretty common knowledge among Tivo users. I don't think it is beyond Grandma or anyone else... and I'd definitely tell anyone how to do it (and have them write it down so they can do it again for any machine reboots... say after the system updates that happen a few times a year.)

The fast-forward works just fine for most folks I think. But I agree the 30 second skip is much nicer.

I actually prefer the ability to set the time-skip function myself. For watching football games I often set it to 25 seconds. I skip the 24 second play clock between snaps... between that and commercial skipping I can watch a 3 hour game in an hour. It's great.

> How about the 20 second jump back? Skipping ahead 30 seconds is great and all, but it often results in going slightly past the end of the commercials.

No problem there... just to the left of that button is the "jump back 8 seconds" button. No tweaking necessary, it just does it. One click is usually just right for correcting commercial skipping "overshoot", in my experience. (Also perfect for the aforementioned ultra-fast football watching.) If you need to go back further, click it again. click-click = 16 seconds, click-click-click = 20. Pretty close to what you are asking for, I think. (I actually think 8 at a time is much better... 20 sounds like an odd choice to me.)

>Part of Tivo's appeal is that they are easy to use and ready out of the box. This just does not cut it.

Perhaps, but I think "easy blah blah out of the box except punch in a code for this one feature" is a bit slicker for less technically apt than some of the other proposed solutions.

For the record, I'm not neccessarily arguing that there are no issues with with Tivo or anything... I agree with some of the ones you bring up. I'm just interested in sharing information and clearing up any misconceptions. :)

All current Tivo models allow you to transfer shows to a windows PC for burning (Mac and linux is a more complicated story, and may be changing for the better soon), and a few have built-in burners to do it on the spot. (Exception... Direct TV Tivos are being phased out by Direct TV in favor of their own PVR devices, and they aren't interested in enabling any of these newer features for existing machines.)

I'm pretty sure editing content (transferred to PC) before burning is not a problem. I don't think it is an option on the "built-in burner" models (without transferring to PC first) as it is just impractical to try to do that kind of task within a TV/remote interface.

I have a standard non-hacked 80hr Series 2 Tivo, with that one easter-egg enabled. I'm running Galleon (an open source HMO replacement) as a background service on my main Ubuntu machine. Stuff I can do:

1. All of the normal DVR stuff... pick shows to record.
2. All of the nicer Tivo stuff... no-hassle season passes, wishlist recording, and self-recording stuff it thinks I might like.
3. View photo collections from my PC (that linux box with Galleon on it)
4. Play mp3s and playlists from my PC... basically use it as a jukebox
5. Check email, movie listings, weather, RSS feeds, and all kinds of other internet stuff via my PC.
6. Transfer shows to my PC without even going to the PC. (Start PC transfers right from the Tivo and watch something else while it does it in the background. Can also have transfers take place automatically based on keyword matching)

Not bad, really. Now for the problems:

1. That broadcast flag thing. I've never ever seen it, but I've heard about it... so it does concern me. I doubt that any consumer device will be able to avoid this issue, really. There are workarounds for any "can't burn this" restrictions, though. ;)

2. The format for transferred shows i

Re:Remember, 'ViiV' rhymes with 'Live'

[dogwelder99]

Who was the latest idiot at Intel who thought I'd be intrigued by a brand name I can't figure out how to pronounce, without their help? All we know is the product name, and already their user interface is broken.

another reason for me to go the MythTV route

[fak3r]

I don't want to get locked into anything, even if they're talking about 'interlopability'. Every self respecting geek should run a MythTV box first, and then go the Tivo route *if* it does more than you need via MythTV. I would prefer to see a home grown solution as an option always. (sorry, I can't validate paying fees for what purports to be an online tv guide while they determing how often I can view the content after I record it).

Re:another reason for me to go the MythTV route

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to get locked into anything

Yeah, $89 units really lock you in, don't they?

Every self respecting geek should run a MythTV box first, and then go the Tivo route *if* it does more than you need via MythTV.

Or we have lives to lead. or just want a sleek box we can put into our home entertainment center and watch things on a proper screen, or... Some of us, even geeks, have better things to do.

(sorry, I can't validate paying fees for what purports to be an online tv guide

Well, it's a bit more than that, but far be it from me to stand in the way of good FUD.

while they determing how often I can view the content after I record it).

Which was only a speculation for pay per view, and hasn't even shown up outside one glitch. And PPV is dead with the advent of VOD and Netflix. Who cares?

Re:Remember, 'ViiV' rhymes with 'Live'

[Anonymous Coward]

not quite. "Live" was a poor choice of example there, as it, like many other words in the English language has a counterpart that looks the same, but sounds different. Hononyms (sp?). ViiV rhymes with five, jive, hive, dive, etc. A sharp 'eye' sound, and not a short 'ih' sound.

Just great.

[Sierpinski]

It also will ensure the products will work when the PC is being controlled from a distance via a remote control.'"

So my jerk neighbor can fill my hard drive up with HGTV while I'm away on vacation because he bought one of those programmable universal remotes or something similar? I might lose all my episodes of Golden Girls and Designing Women! Oh the horror!

Slashdot predictions

[Goaway]

Now you can evaluate Slashdot's predictive ability:

New Intel Trademark Filed - An article trying to guess what this trademark was referring to.

Re:Slashdot predictions

[NeoBeans]

When it comes to Slashdot predictions, who can forget this one?

And thus...

[Anonymous Coward]

...VIIVO was born.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I wonder if this means...

[The Lynxpro]

...That the Series3 TiVo set-top boxes will sport Intel chipsets (like a StrongARM or something beefier) instead of the current 200Mhz MIPS chips that are currently in the Series2 units (or the 50Mhz PowerPC chips in the Series1 units). It would benefit the set top boxes greatly to have more raw power to deal with HDTV and interactive options.

Might this also be a path towards an Apple buyout of TiVo (that many of us want)?

Duh

[SFalcon]

There's no time to RTFA when you're in a race for the first post! You know this.

Bad example

[geekoid]

as in:
"This is where they live"

"They are going live"

I suspect it rhymes with the live that rhymes with five.

I need to take five, leave this hive, and listen to some jive while I drive to get my viiv.

How exaclty....?

[adnausium]

"avoid consumer confusion and questions over interoperability."

And these letters "Viiv", are supposed to avoid confusion how exacltly?

Intel and Tivo Partner Up for Apple?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it not so that they just need a good partnership to get ready for the new Mac-mini AiO... we're all gonna love Apple's next move!

Sounds more like a partnership in DRM

[RentonSentinel]

I don't trust either of them...

Intel, a corporation formerly known for engineering and now basically just a bunch of marketing nazis selling re-branded AMDs at twice the price and twice the temperature.

And Tivo, the people who say "pay us forever" for a spam-filled TV Guide that cripples hardware as a bonus.

I want no part of this "VIIV"...

Re:Sounds more like a partnership in DRM

[21chrisp]

Intel, a corporation formerly known for engineering and now basically just a bunch of marketing nazis selling re-branded AMDs

Seriously.. do you really think this? Granted, AMD is (rightfully) beating down Intel on desktops and servers right now... but where do you get this from? Rebranded AMDs... on an x86 archetecture that Intel created?! Plus all of that MMX and SSE crap that AMD also uses.. About the only technology Intel has copied from AMD are the 64 bit extensions. That's not even close to warranting a statement like that. We all know the P4 is a terd, but it's defeinitely no rebranded AMD...

at twice the price and twice the temperature.
Price is not really that much higher these days. Yeah the temp is sad, basically a side-effect of the general suckiness of the P4.

I don't understand how it warrents this kind of blanket attack though. Previous Intel chips have been quite nice, and the Pentium-M based chips are some of the best Intel has ever produced. AMD targets the hobbyist market where people like you do their marketing for them. THAT's why you don't see so many AMD commercials. If the tables turn... you'll see that change, garaunteed. Intel has it's problems, but statements like that go too far.

I don't use Tivo so I can't comment on that.

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Karma whore can't even RTFA

I think it already has been done...

[Anonymous Coward]

It also will ensure the products will work when the PC is being controlled from a distance via a remote control. - You mean like Windows after the rootkit was installed?

Intel = DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever since Intel decided to integrate DRM into their chips and motherboards, I've held the company as synonymous with DRM. Anything Intel, Macs or otherwise, I'm going to steer well clear of.

move along, nothing to see here

[Filthysock]

intel has dropped its media server engine (interopability) from the initial release. Its basically just a MCE box with a standardised hardware and some preloaded programs. We were told to drop all the content server stuff from our apps.
June is when all the content sharing stuff comes out. Read this as; they're completely rewriting it.

Interesting.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess Tivo doesn't want to use MIPS or powerpc anymore, or something like that. Maybe if home entertainment devices get more and more pc like, there will be more of a demand for standardization of graphics and sound hardware. Open source sofware could really benefit from that. Better to improve software like X11, GTK, QT, Mesa, OSS, ALSA, etc rather than having to whip up more new drivers for the latest graphics/sound chipset or depend upon creaky, least common denominator solutions like VESA.