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Building a Quiet Media Room PC

Posted by Zonk on from the you-have-nothing-else-to-do-today-right dept.

mikemuch writes "ExtremeTech just come out with a new Media Center PC build-it project. This one takes advantage of Windows Media Center Edition 2005 Rollup 2 and uses a fanless graphics card, four tuners--two standard TV and two HDTV, the Creative Labs DTS-610, which lets you bypass some DRM, and a good-looking SilverStone LaScala chassis that fits in your media rack. The new system is way more versatile, and maybe more importantly, a lot quieter than any previous media PC DIY boxes. One drawback: We're still waiting for the cable and satellite companies to get it together on CableCard, so the system has to do without."

163 comments

  1. I predict... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    2 insightful posts before this becomes windows vs linux

    1. Re:I predict... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flamebait? The mods around here obviously don't know a joke when it hits them square in the face ;)

  2. Poor Thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    [blockquote]...fanless graphics card...[/blockquote]

    It must be so lonely.

    1. Re:Poor Thing. by kimvette · · Score: 1

      How could even n00b mods miss the obvious joke here?

      (hint to the n00b who modded it down - click your username at the top left, click on fans, if you have no fans it says you're lonely. The post was obviously a funny and is very topical because it's a pun on a quote from the article. Duh.)

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:Poor Thing. by FuturePastNow · · Score: 2

      (This line of conversation is off-topic, so I'm just going to check the "No Karma Bonus" box and mod myself down at the start.)

      First, moderators are slashdot users just like you. They have biases and their idea of flamebait might differ from yours. Bookmark your comment and check on it in a week or so, and see if it changes. If it does, then a metamoderator saw it and decided it was unfair. If not, I don't know what to tell you. It's a technology news site, don't take it too seriously.

      And on a broader note, a lot of people complain that the mod/metamod system is broken. I'm sure there's room for improvement, but I've been clicking on the "Have you Meta Moderated Recently?" link every other day almost since I joined a year ago. In my humble experience, 90% of the moderations on Slashdot are fair, and those that aren't usually get changed. YMMV

      --
      Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
    3. Re:Poor Thing. by thexgodfather · · Score: 0

      I have yet to really figure out how to properly set my comment as a no karma boost or anything... I am pretty new to posting on slashdot though I have read it for awhile...

    4. Re:Poor Thing. by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Check "No Karma Bonus" when posting (can that be made the default?)

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    5. Re:Poor Thing. by Splintax · · Score: 1

      Not only was that an appalling joke, the submitter obviously didn't know how to use the Preview button.. and uses BBcode.

  3. Total Cost by Niraj59 · · Score: 3, Informative

    $2,315? Sounds a little steep for me. I'd rather buy a 42-inch plasma TV.

    1. Re:Total Cost by Snoolas · · Score: 1

      Well, briefly looking over the part list, it seems that they went all out on this thing. It is nice. I think that you could build one a lot cheaper, by avoiding the dual core, huge amounts of memory, etc.

    2. Re:Total Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i agree, i can think of better things to do with 2.315 US dollars

    3. Re:Total Cost by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 1, Troll

      No you don't. Plasma TV's are junk. They go dim after a few years and you can't play games on them because they are susceptible to burn in.

      If you must have a big ass tv you best bet bang for buck is still a rear projection. If you must hang something on the wall the best thing to do is put a 100 bucks into a walmart special and wait for the price of LCD's to come down.

      --

      Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    4. Re:Total Cost by Rickler · · Score: 1

      Plasma sucks. Enjoy it's burn in and short life time.

      It's all about the 45inch LCD with TRUE HI-DEF at 1080p (1920 x 1080 resolution) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16850000002

      --

      The human race is artificial intelligence created using object orientated programming.
    5. Re:Total Cost by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      No you don't. Plasma TV's are junk. They go dim after a few years and you can't play games on them because they are susceptible to burn in.

      Things have changed. The phosphor half-life of the current generation is 60,000 hours. I think that's 20 years of 8 hours a day operation.

      The current generation is no more succeptible to burn-in than a standard direct-view TV. Still, it's best to turn down the brightness.

      I don't own one, but it doesn't make sense to allow old information to continue to perpetuate.

      I personally prefer LCD for the resolution, a 1080p LCD TV is available at 37", a 1080p plasma is something like 60". Plasmas also seem to have more screen door effect, making the picture look grainy because of the black portions between pixels.

    6. Re:Total Cost by modecx · · Score: 1

      And if you've got a dark/big enough place to put a front projection system in, the time has never been better to do so. For the price of a small plasma, you can get a decent HDTV resolution projector and a screen that will hook right up to a computer no sweat, though I don't know how well a setup like this will work for watching live TV. Maybe it would be best to throw in a tuner box, and let the computer do its business if one desires to watch TV live. I've been seriously thinking about doing this myself, but there are so many things out there to pick from that it's sort of a difficult thing. The projector people are even taking this into account and are desiging many projectors specifically for home theatres, and there's enough of it out there that anyone looking at different price points can probably get the system that's going to make them happy.

      A full on home theatre isn't out of reach of many people like it used to be, and it's more versatile than it has been in the past... It could be good for TV, movies, games, PC stuff, showing pictures to your nearly blind grandma, you know, whatever. I would have already done it, but there's always other considerations, darn it.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    7. Re:Total Cost by Scott+Byer · · Score: 1
      The current generation is no more succeptible to burn-in than a standard direct-view TV. Still, it's best to turn down the brightness.
      Not quite - it's still worse than a direct view TV, but not as bad as a 3x7" CRT RPTV.

      And any burn-in is too much in this day of better technologies. It means no watching 4x3 undistorted, no tickers, avoid video games - all the old rules that apply to big tubes and CRT RPTVs.

      Add in the bad color gamut, the bad screen door, the higher electricity usage (Panasonic is still 2x any LCDs or non-CRT RPTVs), and plasmas still just don't make sense.

      And Matsushita's mis-information about other technologies ("smoother reproduction of moving images and a deeper black" - any LCD w/ 12ms or under refresh does just as well, DLP does better, and Sony's LCoS has better black levels than any plasma) makes me wonder if they're really telling the truth about having fixed the half-life issue as well as they claim to have.

      --
      > cat ~/.signature | grep -v bullshit

      >

    8. Re:Total Cost by jargoone · · Score: 1

      Add in the bad color gamut

      Uh, what? Please explain. You're certainly not referring to black levels on a plasma, which will trounce any LCD flat panel on the market.

      the bad screen door

      Bullshit. At this moment, I'm watching a Panasonic ED plasma from about 9'. Screen door effect is imperceptible from this distance.

      the higher electricity usage

      Peak rated electricity usage on plasma screens is far higher than actual use. There's a great thread on avsforum.com about this. You're right in that it's higher than LCD/DLP, but it's not all that bad.

      When you factor all that in, along with the fact that plasma screens are much MUCH cheaper than equivalent-sized LCDs, they make a whole lot of sense.

    9. Re:Total Cost by Scott+Byer · · Score: 1
      Uh, what? Please explain. You're certainly not referring to black levels on a plasma, which will trounce any LCD flat panel on the market.
      No, color gamut. Phospher red is really quite orange still, cutting out all the best reds. You don't miss it until you see it on another set.
      Bullshit. At this moment, I'm watching a Panasonic ED plasma from about 9'. Screen door effect is imperceptible from this distance.
      To you. I see it plenty at that distance, and at further distances it contributes to an overall perception of lower resolution (and contrast). Screen door matters, just like the DLP rainbow did/does. Not everybody sees it, but to those of us who do, it's a deal-killer.

      When you factor all that in, along with the fact that plasma screens are much MUCH cheaper than equivalent-sized LCDs, they make a whole lot of sense.
      Equivalent sized flat-panel LCDs - for now. Why do people want a flat-panel so much? Your component stack is >= 20" anyway, so what's the point? Right now, a 3-panel LCD rear projector can be had for cheaper, with better resolution, gamut, matching black levels, more than sufficient viewing angle, much better electricity consumption, so why flat?

      Hooked on flat panel? Within a year, LCD will be cheaper, have far better contrast ratios and black level (using LCD backlit), and much better lifetimes and useability. But even then LCoS RPTV will continue to have significant quality advantages.

      Matsusita's got a very temporary 6-month lead on price as long as they can keep people snowed on the plasma flaws. They're playing that for all it's worth...

      --
      > cat ~/.signature | grep -v bullshit

      >

    10. Re:Total Cost by Scott+Byer · · Score: 1

      L_E_D backlit. One friggin letter...

      --
      > cat ~/.signature | grep -v bullshit

      >

    11. Re:Total Cost by jargoone · · Score: 1

      Why do people want a flat-panel so much? Your component stack is >= 20" anyway, so what's the point?

      In my particular case, the room it's in lends very well to a flat-panel. We have a large great room with lots of windows on the back wall, and a fireplace in the middle of this wall. Any screen except for a flat panel above the fireplace would focus our attention away from the windows and the view.

      And yes, my component stack is fairly large. It's also tucked away in a corner, about 20' from the set, with the wiring run through the basement. ;-)

      Incidentally, I share your view regarding "What's the point?" for someone who places it on a dedicated stand where another display technology would work well. My room is a gathering room first, and the plasma has a very high WAF. I will soon have a dedicated home theater to supplement, which will get an LCD or DLP RP, for sure. For this room, at this time, and at the price, it was a clear winner.

      As far as the "flaws": every display technology has flaws. I don't think it's a matter of keeping people "snowed". It's a matter of taking those into account and making the best decision for your particular situation. People are pretty smart and do their research when spending this amount of money. I know I did. As far as SDE and color gamut, I guess ignorance (or imperceptiveness) is bliss, in this case. I'm thrilled with my plasma, and it's the most stunningly beautiful picture I've seen. No regrets for me. YMMV, and obviously does.

    12. Re:Total Cost by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      Things have changed. The phosphor half-life of the current generation is 60,000 hours. I think that's 20 years of 8 hours a day operation.

      I'll believe this when I see plasma displays that have been in use for ten years or so and still work fine. But I have the suspicion that nobody will even be selling plasma by then.

  4. Nice, but... by Mr.+Maestro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Until they add CableCard or some similar feature to Media Center PC's, I think the appeal will be limited. On that subject, I don't see why the cable company would want me to get a cable card when they could just continue charging me to use their digital box.
    Maybe I'll just read a book instead.
    M

    1. Re:Nice, but... by DrEldarion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't see why the cable company would want me to get a cable card when they could just continue charging me to use their digital box.

      Well, as more and more people want that, they can use it as a bonus against their competitors. "Yeah, WE allow you to use our service with your computer, but the sattelite companies don't!". They still make their money on the service.

      Either that, or they can rent out the CableCards for the same price.

    2. Re:Nice, but... by Seth+Finklestein · · Score: 0, Interesting

      The cable company is required to provide you a CableCARD by law if you want one. For once, the FCC has mandated something useful and consumer-friendly.

      The cable company doesn't promote CableCARD because they can't use it to charge me $5 per Pay-Per-View movie* or provide pathetic closed-source DVR "solutions" to which my MythTV box is superior.

      * Most of which goes to movie studios, which I boycott anyway

      --
      I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
    3. Re:Nice, but... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      But if they rent you the cards, will the cards be Windows-only or will Mac and Linux and *BSD users have options?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    4. Re:Nice, but... by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Either that, or they can rent out the CableCards for the same price."

      The cable company is in the business of selling content, not renting boxes. They rent boxes for the sole purpose of selling content (there is no other way to receive all of the digital channels - no standard existed, coupled with the fact that the sources - both movies and television networks - wanted some assurances of DRM). My cable company rents a Motorola 6812 - a dual-HDTV "tuner", very capable box for like $18 a month - I doubt that comes close to covering the depreciation on the box month over month.

    5. Re:Nice, but... by pmancini · · Score: 1

      Any business student will tell you the answer to that. They would want to get rid of the cable box because they are not in the hardware business. They are provide video news and entertainment. Getting rid of all the parts of the business that only support the boxes would be a huge win for them if they could maintain the same control they have over their business. That is the trick of course. Preventing service pirates, providing functionality for their customer base and keeping their business secure are things they have some control over with their boxes. The boxes, though, aren't the business and if they could get out of having to deal with them I am sure they would.

    6. Re:Nice, but... by Mr.+Maestro · · Score: 1

      Right. But as long as they control the boxes, pirates/hacking is a minor issue. If they move to cable cards, watch out. Pirating will be a HUGE issue.
      Let me put it this way. I know lots of people who know lots of ways to get free music and movies and tv shows on their PC's over the internet.
      I know very, very few people who are able to hack in to a digital cable box from BrightHouse and set it to give them all the channels.
      If the industry switches to CableCard, you can bet there will be tons of people with a "patch" for their PC's that allows them to get all the channels.
      M

    7. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Well, as more and more people want that, they can use it as a bonus against their competitors.

      What competitors?

    8. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, as more and more people want that, they can use it as a bonus against their competitors.

      Your cable company has competitors? I wish that were a universal phenomenon.

    9. Re:Nice, but... by woolio · · Score: 2, Insightful
      a dual-HDTV "tuner", very capable box for like $18 a month - I doubt that comes close to covering the depreciation on the box month over month.


      Why do you say that? $18/month = $216/year == $648 over three years... Just how much does just the "tuner" cost??? Keep in mind that if you cancel it, they can still rent it out to someone else...

      All this on top of the ~$50-$70/month for digital cable...

      Well, looks like they cost less than $300:
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =5832099588

      The Cable company is in the business of making money And considering that it has a monopoly on wired cable TV, it shouldn't be that difficult.

      My apartment complex requires all kinds of crap for 18"dishes... (Including something like $500K insurance). and they don't allow them to be mounted. They pretty much made it impossible for residents to have one. (Of about 1000 residents, nobody has one!)

      Do you really think that "AOL/Time Warner" (the local cable company) didn't have ANYTHING to do with this?!?!??!?!?!?!?
    10. Re:Nice, but... by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      Why do you say that? $18/month = $216/year == $648 over three years... Just how much does just the "tuner" cost??? Keep in mind that if you cancel it, they can still rent it out to someone else...

      It's a dual-channel PVR. These things depreciate fairly quickly now - it isn't like the days of lore. In 3 years it will be an obsolete piece of junk, just like the DCT-6408 that they rented out for a year are now (no one wants them - they want a 6412).

      Well, looks like they cost less than $300

      Is that really how you value things? You look for dubious ebay auctions for uncertain items with uncertain limitations?

      They are going new for around $700-800.

    11. Re:Nice, but... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      Today no OSes support the extreme DRM required by CableCards. A year from now, Vista is supposed to support CableCard. Maybe OS X will. Open source OSes will never be able to support it.

    12. Re:Nice, but... by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      On that subject, I don't see why the cable company would want me to get a cable card when they could just continue charging me to use their digital box.

      Well, they aren't offering it for their benefit, it's to keep you as a customer. Most people looking for cable cards are looking for them for their large plasma screen TV's they have hanging on the wall, not their homebrew PVR ;-) . They don't want a bulky, horizontally-oriented converter messing up their clean TV install job and CableCard lets them keep the number of wires on the wall to a minimum.

    13. Re:Nice, but... by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      To complete my followup (this time with closing 'em's...)

      The Cable company is in the business of making money And considering that it has a monopoly on wired cable TV, it shouldn't be that difficult.

      Right - they want to get you to buy cable television, and all of the digital channels, and maybe high speed internet. I've got it all, and happily pay them $130 a month. They don't give a sheeit if I'm receiving that in my brain, on a rental box, or on a media PC with a cablecard. Their business is selling cable services, not renting quickly-obsolete DVRs, though they do the latter to facilitate the former.

      My apartment complex requires all kinds of crap for 18"dishes... (Including something like $500K insurance). and they don't allow them to be mounted. They pretty much made it impossible for residents to have one. (Of about 1000 residents, nobody has one!)

      Apartment buildings look like CRAP when they have dishes all over them, not to mention that morons usually end up screwing giant mounts into the structural cement/bricks of the building. There are a lot of reasons not to want dishes on a building, and I think it's pretty bizarre to imagine a conspiracy behind it.

    14. Re:Nice, but... by norton_I · · Score: 1

      Apartment buildings look like crap anyway.

      If they don't want dishes all over the roof, an apartment building can (and should) install a single dish with repeaters, and allow tenants to choose whether they want their cable feed to be cable or satellite.

      There definately is collusion between cable companies and property managment, my old apartment required me to subscribe to cable, along with everyone else in the building (at a discount! but still for more than satellite). This was common, if not ubiquitous among large apartment buildings in the area.

    15. Re:Nice, but... by DrEldarion · · Score: 1

      Yes, they're called the sattelite companies.

    16. Re:Nice, but... by kimvette · · Score: 1

      The DRM should be managed by the cable card itself, the software shouldn't care. That is why I am asking.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    17. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I probably could have talked my landlord into letting me mount my dish, but instead I parked a Dish on a Stick in the corner of my balcony: a five gallon bucket, some concrete across the bottom anchoring a section of pipe (the same outer diameter as the original mounting arm), and a few inches of an RG-6 cable (from Sony, I think) flat and flexible enough to fit between a closed window and its frame.

    18. Re:Nice, but... by tm2b · · Score: 1
      My apartment complex requires all kinds of crap for 18"dishes... (Including something like $500K insurance). and they don't allow them to be mounted. They pretty much made it impossible for residents to have one. (Of about 1000 residents, nobody has one!)
      You might want to challenge them on that. The FCC put in place rules that preempt satellite restrictions. From the FCC fact sheet on their ruling:
      The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

      Effective January 22, 1999, the Commission amended the rule so that it also applies to rental property where the renter has an exclusive use area, such as a balcony or patio.
      Landlords like to ignore the rule, unless challenged. Don't let the bastards get away with it.
      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    19. Re:Nice, but... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      No, because the OS has to ensure that the content remains "protected" after it leaves the card.

  5. GAH! by badxmaru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are people posting these lowbrow, "how to make a PC" posts? Aren't there geek forums on hardocp / anandtech / ars where people can parade their own PC creations? I mean what in the world is so educational and mindsharing about this posting?
    It might as well just be
    "build your own Dell system for $200 off in Dell Small Business"

    What's the big idea?
    Isn't there google for these things?
    these posts only further slashdot into the realm of those mainstream wannabe geeks who think that making yet another PC puts them on the alpha stack.
    gives slashdot a bad name! MODERATE THESE OUT IN THE FUTURE PLS.

    1. Re:GAH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A PC is a PC, but a multimedia PC is a different kettle of fish - it isn't normally just a case of bolting a PC together with a TV card and saying "there it is", you have to select components carefully, it's a bit of an art.

      Now while I can see your point about building PC articles, you have to look at this from the Digital Home Cinema/Theater angle, which is something that interests a lot of /. readers, myself included. From that perspective, it's an interesting read.

      And while no big MS fanboy, I quite like the appeal of XP Mediacenter. Part of the reason I read /. is because it's in my nature to build and tinker with things, and with that in mind, there may be others out there who are thinking of building one of these rather than buying, and would like the feedback of other likeminded people from a /. diy perspective, not a home theater forum one.

    2. Re:GAH! by it_ain't_my_fault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree there are too much articles about building a PC on /. I think most of us already know how to build one but it's interesting to see the what hardware somebody used for his PVR, Media Center or whatever... But please this is /. I know from the statistics most of you come from windows but it's a place with a reputation of linux ethusiasts, so come on show original setups for mythTV that doesn't involve a PVR-150/250/350... instead and I'm sure a lot of us would complain less.

    3. Re:GAH! by fm6 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Believe it or not, Slashdot is a geek forum too. If you think otherwise, you haven't been paying attention....

    4. Re:GAH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok.

      Here's my myth setup then: (all prices $CAD)

      $300 Compaq Desktop SFF P4 1.7 (was laying around gathering Window's rust)
                    this was the noisy peice until the inside was detailed (cleaned)

      $40 EVGA Geforce 4 MX 4000 TVout card (fanless)
      $120 Seagate 250 GB (quiet HD)
      $24 Mercury Tuner Card (cheap ass card NO HW MPEG)
      $200 Pansat 2500 (with latest flash) (currently selling for around $150)
      $11 homebuilt IR sender and receiver (geek factor)
      $0 Old remote from Hughes DirecTV ird (really old but----
                AUX , TV, VCR and SAT functions work perfectly)

      Posted anon due to Pansat flash.

    5. Re:GAH! by mitchulskus · · Score: 1

      You want to head over to www.byopvr.com

      Users can post system setups, industry news, blah, blah, blah.

      I do enjoy seeing the /. thoughts on this subject as the PVR box is still in it's infancy. It's nice to see/hear what other people think and are doing aside from the tech forums.

  6. Just wait until January by melted · · Score: 1, Informative

    Apple is supposed to roll out their Media Center Macs with everything you need, sans fifty-button remote. As an added bonus they'll look nice.

    1. Re:Just wait until January by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      But wait, I thought MS copied everything from Apple, not visa-versa?

    2. Re:Just wait until January by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you seen frontrow? The most featureless MC indeed.

    3. Re:Just wait until January by DrunkenPenguin · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? And you'll just need to pay extra $50 to enable the full screen mode?

    4. Re:Just wait until January by aaron_ds · · Score: 3, Funny

      Great. Now we'll have one-button remote zealots too!

  7. Home Distributed Media by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    PocketPCs that can run Linux go for $100 used. How about a $1300 1.3TB RAID in one room, and a $500 cluster of 5 of those in the media room, with one dedicated to video-out for an extra $500? That sounds like a wicked, silent mediaroom PC that can also do a lot more.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Home Distributed Media by steevc · · Score: 1

      But can they run any decent video display? And do they have enough grunt for any sort of media conversion or playing back compressed video?

      The fanless mini-ITX sounds like a better idea to me, even though I haven't got one.

      When I eventually build my media PC I would be tempted to run some distributed processing project on it, but that is bound to result in a lot of extra heat. Really I want something that either uses very little power all the time or can suspend itself when not needed. That may be an issue when I want it to record TV.

      I would be looking at something better than my Pace Twin for recording UK Freeview, but can also store DVD and VHS video for the kids to watch.

      Maybe next year.

    2. Re:Home Distributed Media by Temsi · · Score: 1

      I got one of those mini-ITX things, and it's worthless for any serious video playback, and forget about recording, unless you use a card with a hardware mpeg encoder.
      The 1ghz one I got could just barely play a dvd size divx at ntsc framerates at 100% cpu usage (30% cpu playing mpeg2, which is supposedly "accellerated" in the chipset).

      I use it as a living room mp3 player with a small LCD touchscreen, but I wouldn't dream of ever using it for video again.

      Currently, I use an xbox with the xbox media center for almost everything, except full on HiDef material, for which I still have to use my PC (1920x1080i DVI out).

      But if you're looking for a cheap way to play back media, and don't care about recording, get the xbox media center - it plays almost everything (including internet streams).
      If you're looking for a cheap way to record, either get a TiVo which can then be hooked up to the xbox to be able to play the content in multiple rooms - or just get a tv tuner for your existing PC and save its recordings into a folder which then is shared on your LAN so your xbox can play from it. Keeps the PC out of the living room at least.

      --
      -- This sig for rent.
    3. Re:Home Distributed Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      agreed, I look at getting a mini-itx for driving my lcd project (panasonic ae-500) and ended up going for a amd athlon +2500 with a nvidia matx board which has a gf4mx on-board. Simple reason was being able to play divx, dvds and dvb (I get freeview in the uk) full-screen without having to worry about running out of cpu.

      The box also does recording + I can view the tv from my pc and laptop using mythtv :)

    4. Re:Home Distributed Media by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 1

      That's odd. I use a 1GHz Via EPIA M10000 to watch MPEG2 video I record with a PVR250 card on a separate backup system... no problems at all and CPU usage is very low. Perhaps you had something misconfigured? I don't really care about HDTV so this was all just regular analog cable recorded at 720x480 with a variable bit rate up to 8Mbits/sec.

    5. Re:Home Distributed Media by Temsi · · Score: 1

      Like I said, "unless you use a card with a hardware mpeg encoder", and the PVR250 definitely does have a hardware encoder.

      --
      -- This sig for rent.
  8. Thin client with flash card HD + Linux does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Flash card HD (for example Fujitsu thin client hardware), Linux, MPlayer, MythTV, Matrox video card (no fan). These are the recipients for a complete multi purpose video/audio/media jukebox. No noise, no digital rights management shit, none what so ever - just enjoy.

    1. Re:Thin client with flash card HD + Linux does it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still too big, too expensive and too complicated to setup. And also too noisy.

      I'd rather use a Neuros MPEG4 Recorder 2.

  9. Slight Contradiction by c_spencer100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What I found interesting is how they went premiere on everything but the graphics card - one of the most important parts. People complain want at least almost high resolutions on a 17" monitor, so you care to explain to me how this is going to look on a 36" TV screen (probably even bigger). Some "light gaming" with the GeForce 6600 on a screen that large isn't going to cut it, and it's a pretty freakin safe assumption that anymone who builds themself a $2,500 computer is probably a gamer.

    Interesting article though, but on that point the seem to have forgot what crowd they're apealing to.

    1. Re:Slight Contradiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. This pc has a specific purpose in mind. It's a media center pc for recording tv, playing back dvds etc. Nothing in that requires a high power 3d video card. Like they said the last thing you want in your pc your aiming for cool and quiet is a big 7800gt with a loud fan generating lots of heat. By light gaming I assume things like the sims and such or even a mmorpg like WoW which ran reasonably on my 9700 pro at 1600x1200. The pure video which is the main thing your going to use in this setup is just as functional as it would be in a 7800gtx 512 and the 6600 can reasonably be passively cooled.

      My roommate just rescently built a media center pc. Stuck with a single tuner with a 3200 but simular other wise in a lot of ways. The same zalman on the processor, a simular video card with no fan and a mb with no fans on the north bridge. Yeah he's a gamer but he's got a 6800gt he's had for a while in his main machine and doesn't need to play fear or CoD 2 on the tv in the living room.

    2. Re:Slight Contradiction by c_spencer100 · · Score: 1

      Be realistic man. Who wants to pay $2500 for a computer (not the monitor, just the computer), and be told that there is anything that they can't do? Like other posters, your roommate probably paid a lot less for the setup, which puts the expectations in an entirely different category.

      That's what I meant by contradiction: Pay premium price, but be understanding of that shortcomming as if we would be getting a nice mid level deal on it.

    3. Re:Slight Contradiction by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      People complain want at least almost high resolutions on a 17" monitor, so you care to explain to me how this is going to look on a 36" TV screen (probably even bigger)

      Most TVs are pretty low resolution, and don't exceed 60Hz, so I don't see the problem here. Actually, most HDTVs have the resolution of a 15" widescreen desktop monitor. Faster game cards would likely have obnoxious noise issues, undesirable as a HTPC.

      and it's a pretty freakin safe assumption that anymone who builds themself a $2,500 computer is probably a gamer.

      Actually, I think it's a safer assumption that someone putting four tuner cards in a chassis is probably not going to be using the system as a major game system.

    4. Re:Slight Contradiction by evilneko · · Score: 1

      reasonably? Shit dude, WoW runs "reasonably" on a nerfed PNY GF4 MX 440 with 64MB.

      --
      Slashdot - where to disagree, is to be a troll
    5. Re:Slight Contradiction by rco3 · · Score: 1

      Well, HDTV's that can only do 720p natively don't have resolution greater than that of a desktop 15" widescreen LCD, it's true. However, most of the HDTV's that *I've* seen are capable of 1080i, and if you can find me any significant number of 15" widescreen desktop LCD's that display 1920x1080, I'll eat 'em. That's 23" territory, there.

      Otherwise, spot on.

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
    6. Re:Slight Contradiction by iowannaski · · Score: 1

      It's a media center, not a computer. People spend tens of thousands of dollars on home theatres every day with no expectation that they will be able to play any games whatsoever. Lots of people don't give a shit about gaming, but that don't mean they don't love them their TV>

      --
      i forget
    7. Re:Slight Contradiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      17" laptop screen 1920 x 1280 www.dell.com or more information.

    8. Re:Slight Contradiction by rco3 · · Score: 1

      Indeed. However, the grandparent referred to neither a 17" screen nor a laptop screen. He referred to a 15" widescreen desktop LCD. While your find is intriguing, it in no way qualifies for my next meal.

      Aside: Why, STILL, can we not get desktop screens in the same pixel densities as laptop screens? I'd love a pair of 17" 1920x1280 desktop LCD screens. If you can get one in a ~$1500 laptop, why can't you buy a desktop version for $500 or so?

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
    9. Re:Slight Contradiction by shicaca · · Score: 0

      See that's the beauty of TV. It doesn't matter WHAT graphics card they put into the box. Unless your TV has a super high resolution or is an HDTV, it's going to look like crap no-matter-what... until you play movies or stored video. I'm nearly positive it has something to do with the resolutions TVs can render, but if you ever notice, a TV (with a computer hooked up through, say, AV cables) does not display text worth the crap unless you DOWNGRADE your screen resolution. I think I had my computer down to 480x360 and I could read the text pretty well, but at 1024x768 I couldn't read any text. Now when I started to play a movie on it, the screen looked fine. It most likely downgraded the resolution automatically for me, but of that I can't be sure. Everything looks crystal clear until you close out of the program. The buttons again looked like junk and the text is just a blur. I'm sure this was fixed when computers went to SVid or higher qual connections, but I could be wrong. I have an SVid computer, but unfortunately none of my local TV items have SVid on them. The only way you're going to see a bad influence on screen quality is on an HDTV/LCD TV/Plasma b/c it shows more DPI/has a higher resolution than normal tube TV's. Go find a computer to hook up to your TV and you'll be surprised.

    10. Re:Slight Contradiction by bobbozzo · · Score: 1

      ummm...
      1080i != 1920x1080
      1080p == 1920x1080

      BIG difference.

      1080i is roughly equal to 540p and, therefore, 720p is far superior to 1080i.

      Which is why most "HD ready" displays don't even do 720p

      --
      Nothing to see here; Move along.
    11. Re:Slight Contradiction by rco3 · · Score: 1

      Quoth bobbozzo: "1080i != 1920x1080."

      I humbly beg to differ. Actually, almost everything you wrote was wrong.

      Here's the info you wanted but apparently couldn't Google for: The 'p' or 'i' part refers to 'progressive' or 'interlaced', not to a specific resolution. In terms of video bandwidth, you're right - 1080i30 is the same as 540p60. But in terms of pixel resolution, you couldn't be more wrong. Sorry.

      1080i is the shorthand term for a video resolution of 1920H x 1080V, with 60 interlaced 1920Hx540V fields per second, 2 fields per frame - effectively 30 1920Hx1080V frames per second. So the first field in a frame will display the even (or odd, can't remember which and it doesn't matter) lines, and then the second field will display the other lines interlaced between the first field's lines. It's not the same lines on the screen updated twice.

      1080p30 is 30 progressive 1920H x 1080V frames per second. No interlacing, hence no fields.

      1080p60 is 60 1920H x 1080V frames per second, with no interlacing. That requires considerably more bandwidth than 1080i OR 720p - which is 60 full 1280H x 720V frames per second, non-interlaced. Nobody broadcasts in 1080p60 right now. It's basically all 720p (ABC, ESPN, FOX) or 1080i.

      540p, incidentally, is not a standard resolution in the ATSC spec.

      "HD Ready" means that the set is capable of accepting an HD signal, but does not have an ATSC tuner.

      'EDTV' displays are not capable of displaying HD signals at full resolution, so they downsample the incoming HD image to some resolution that they can display - my 800x600 LCD projector will do that, but of course can't display anything better than 480p without downconversion.

      To be a true HD set, and not an EDTV set, it must be capable of displaying at least 720p, or (preferably) 1080i or greater. Most current CRT and projection HDTV sets are completely capable of displaying 1080i at full resolution. If you buy an "HDTV" and its native resolution is any lower than 1280x720, you got screwed. Interestingly, lots of HD LCD panels are actually WXGA, or something along the lines of (get it? lines? Ah, I kill me!) 1280x768 - clearly adapted from computer display panels, as evidenced by the '768' part. There's no reason for having 768 lines to display a 720 line image.

      Now, if you want to get into the relative merits of 1080i vs. 720p, I'm ready; be warned, though, the answers aren't as clear here. Much of the issue has to do with a) personal preference and b) the nature of the source material.

        I'm trying really hard here not to be insulting or dismissive, but I'd really appreciate it if next time you feel the urge for an, "ummm... ," coming on that you stop and check your facts before you correct someone. I see that sort of behavior far too often on Slashdot. I realize that in meatspace, most of us are the most technically savvy people we know - but here on Slashdot, we're all technocrati. You're almost guaranteed NOT to be the most knowledgeable person here on any given subject, unless it's your Ph.D. topic or something. I am (relatively speaking) an expert in video. I have 10 years of broadcast video engineering experience, a bachelor's and master's in EE, and am A.B.D. for my Ph.D. in EE. I have designed and built several functional, used-in-the-field video circuits and devices. I am currently a paid consultant in video circuit design. I'm not just guessing, or making shit up.

      By the way, if you ever get the urge to correct someone else here on Slashdot about rocket-triggered lightning, come ask me first.

      --

      Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
    12. Re:Slight Contradiction by bobbozzo · · Score: 1

      Sorry... for some reason I remembered that 720p was superior to, AND more expensive than, 1080i.
      I guess I must be thinking of ED, but something still doesn't seem right to me (wrt my memory).

      Anyways, thanks for the clarifications.

      --
      Nothing to see here; Move along.
  10. No TV by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The so-called Media Center Macs won't have a TV tuner, for one thing.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:No TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pappa Jobs knows what is best for you.
      Well if Apple didn't include it you didn't really need it.

    2. Re:No TV by interiot · · Score: 1
      You can get an HD DVR for fairly cheap these days (especially if subsidized with a cable / satellite agreement).

      There are other uses for a media PC than just DVR capabilities... specifically, it's nice to have flexibility to run any codecs and play video downloaded off the 'net. It's also very nice to be able to run things like iTunes and MAME on a media PC.

      Yeah, maybe this is small subset of the HTPC market, but until we get better integration of HTPCs with cable/satellite, having two separate boxes (one that's fairly that's super-stable, and one that's super-flexible) isn't a bad way to go.

    3. Re:No TV by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      They must, otherwise they're not really media centers, just PCs with quicktime or whatever on them.

      Since it's all rumour anyway nobody knows what the specs might be if such a device ever reaches the market.

    4. Re:No TV by Bishop · · Score: 1

      An Apple media centre won't have a tv tuner. Apple wants to sell tv shows via iTunes.

    5. Re:No TV by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Why would you need a tuner? All Steve's keynote videos can be downloaded from the net.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  11. The geek way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nehemia 1GHz Mini ITX
    1GB RAM
    Nvidia Card (any one)
    Gnu/Linux (Debian Sarge)
    Limp 1.2
    gmplayer + glame + libdcss

    Cost - 300
    Setup time 2 hours
    Noise - none (totally silent if you heatsing the card to the case)
    Power use - about 12 Watts

    nb please don't mod this up it only rewards the lazy asses who don't browse for actual content at 0 instead of the hivemind popularity contest

    1. Re:The geek way by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I read an article where a guy did that with a 600MHz VIA M12000 unit on a 12cm x 12cm Nano-ITX board. He had no HDD, no opticals, and the chip required no HSF. Totally silent and he had a Silvestone case. He used a 512MB USB stick and a CF card to boot and provide storage on the machine. He put Puppy on it and it ran okay, but not great- his opinion was that it was more of a proof-of-concept unit.

      He later put an optical drive and a 3.5" HDD on it and ran Mepis on it. I just wish I could find the URL...

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    2. Re:The geek way by renehollan · · Score: 1
      I've been looking to do this for a while.

      I have a 1.0 GHz nano-ITX board with VT1625 and CN400 as well as a Silverstone LC08 case.

      Buggers at Via changed the board layout at the last minute and it no longer fits in the case (rotation of the power connector meant that the back panel no longer lines up). Silverstone has no ETA on updated cases.

      Does anyone have a nano-ITX case for the modern nano-ITX boards?

      --
      You could've hired me.
  12. Huh? by Chaffar · · Score: 4, Funny
    This one takes advantage of Windows Media Center Edition 2005 Rollup 2.

    Someone please define advantage :-\

    1. Re:Huh? by Hymer · · Score: 1

      From Wikipedia's 2050 edition...
      "The Microsoft Advantage": in early 21st, century using Microsofts products was considered an advantage by experts and common people. One of the reasons was the allmost absolute market dominance (monopoly) in their business area (software). This dominance was later the reason for a total collaps of the Internet due to massive attacks on Microsofts products made by hackers who used malicious software called viruses, worms and trojans (Trojan Horses).
      --
      I see a bright future for the penguin...

    2. Re:Huh? by sulli · · Score: 1

      When you delete it, you can take advantage of hundreds of MB of disk space?

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
    3. Re:Huh? by shitdrummer · · Score: 1

      Rollup 2 allows MCE HDTV support as well as digital radio. Not to mention increased stability and many other fixes to bugs that were extremely annoying pre rollup 2.

      I am most definately not a Microsoft fanboy, but I must say that Windows MCE is a better all round product than all the other HTPC software on the market. The major factor for me in settling on MCE was that my wife found it very easy to use. Sure, there are problems now and again, and Microsoft have a long way to go with this product, but my wife and I are very happy with it.

      On another note, I've always found this whole HTPC noise issue a bit over rated. I've seen people spend a fortune on silent this and fanless that, but in the end they were living in an open plan unit where their fridge made more noise than their PC.

      For me I just replaced my primary home tower PC with a new one, installed two digital HD tuner cards in the old tower, bought MCE, the MCE remote, and the MCE keyboard, installed MCE, reinstalled MCE, reinstalled MCE again, investigated my MCE problems for about 2 weeks on the net, upgraded motherboard, reinstalled MCE, downgraded drivers, upgraded drivers, upgraded BIOS, reinstalled MCE, installed rollup 2, rolled back to previous motherboard, reinstalled MCE, reinstalled rollup 2, and that was it. I now have a stable system. Easy as that. :)

      MCE takes a lot of work to get it set up properly and stable. Stable being the primary aim, it's no good using MCE as your primary meda centre if the system locks up and doesn't record Arrested Development (for me) or Neighbours (for my wife) when it's supposed to.

      Not to mention that my wife is happy to ok any tech purchase now as long as it will help the HTPC. :)

      Shitdrummer.

    4. Re:Huh? by jargoone · · Score: 1

      For me I just replaced my primary home tower PC with a new one, installed two digital HD tuner cards in the old tower, bought MCE, the MCE remote, and the MCE keyboard, installed MCE, reinstalled MCE, reinstalled MCE again, investigated my MCE problems for about 2 weeks on the net, upgraded motherboard, reinstalled MCE, downgraded drivers, upgraded drivers, upgraded BIOS, reinstalled MCE, installed rollup 2, rolled back to previous motherboard, reinstalled MCE, reinstalled rollup 2, and that was it. I now have a stable system. Easy as that. :)

      And still, it probably took you about 1/8th of the average time it takes to get a MythTV installation running! :-)

      I kid, I'm about to embark on this (MythTV install) myself.

  13. MOD PARENT DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is supposed

    OH, THAT'S INFORMATIVE?! WHERE ARE THE FUCKING FACTS? What we have here is a karma whore! Did you know that Bill Gates is SUPPOSED to roll out his own space rocket with everything you need, sans sixty-button remote in 2140? Did you know that Elvis is SUPPOSED to come back from the grave and play a tour in 2580? Did you know that Jesus is SUPPOSED to live here with us right now??!!

  14. spdif router? by hirschma · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone use something that can take various spdif inputs (optical, coax), and output a single optical? That's what my HTCP system really needs right now. Something like the Creative thingy mentioned, but with more inputs and some intelligence about what to output.

    jh

    1. Re:spdif router? by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      I saw one at radio shack.

      Now of course it wasnt intelligent about what you can output, simply a thing you turned until it clicked into place. Actually I think it was just an empty box with mirrors inside and not much to insure that the data stream actually gets where it is going without a lot of loss

      --
      Bottles.
    2. Re:spdif router? by wernercd · · Score: 1

      I've only begun to plan my system... but I'd like to know if it's possible to have multiple inputs (PS2, XBox/XB360, Sat/Cable, VCR, etc) and have the ability to modify the single output-to-TV via software/hardware... (Can you output to Component/SVideo without converting? Is there a card that does that?)

      Split the screen 2/3/4 ways (Insert obligitory 'only chance for a /.er to get a 3way' joke here), Picture in Picture, Picture by Picture, up/down-convert, etc

      And all of these while having the needed TV recording capabilies that I've never had before (I've only started looking at recording DirectTV and looks like more trouble than its worth lol)

      Maybe I'm asking for too much flexibility or convinience?

      Of course... I want to built it myself starting with parts I have (2 desktops, 2 laptops and various bits and pieces) and I haven't even decided to go Media Center or MythTV (or both? I do have 2 desktops lol)

      Ahh well... if you find out anything on how to add flexibility to input/output I'd love to know.

  15. Why such a fancy system? by julesh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My old AMD 950MHz system is more than happy handling any media you care to throw at it. Its Hauppauge WinTV PVR capture card handles MPG conversion on the hardware, so there's really no need for a fast CPU for that. Being single core, cooling is less of an issue, and it's got a fanless graphics card that was much cheaper than $115. More like $20 (an ATI Rage 3D card with 8Mb). And what's the point of 2Gigs of RAM in a media system?

    The description of "quiet" made me think "fanless", not "just as many fans as my existing system".

    1. Re:Why such a fancy system? by getnate · · Score: 1

      Try throwing HDTV 1080i with de-interlacing at that computer, it will chug and skip.

    2. Re:Why such a fancy system? by interiot · · Score: 1
      Slower machines are fine for standard-def, but if you want to decode HD, you absolutely need a processor that's only a year or two old. Most living room HD video equipment runs pretty hot because of the CPU requirements (XBox 360, HD PVRs, etc).

      As far as cost goes, you can certainly get a cheaper HD system than the one presented in the article.

    3. Re:Why such a fancy system? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Interesting
      My old AMD 950MHz system is more than happy handling any media you care to throw at it.

      Only if you don't throw HDTV videos at it... My Athlon system, overclocked almost to 2GHz, can just BARELY play 1080p content with a whole lot of software tricks using mplayer on Linux.

      You can do hardware decoding with a few videocards on Linux, but you have absolutely no options for deinterlacing, inversing telecine, etc. You're also completely out-of-luck if you want to play WMVHD content, HD h.264, etc. So, it's far, far nicer to be able to do the decoding in realtime on the CPU.

      And besides that, most people want to be able to convert the video they've captured from one format to another, in a reasonable ammount of time. How long do you think it would take to edit and reencode 1080 material on a < 1GHz system like yours? Using something like Xvid, probably a week...

      The description of "quiet" made me think "fanless", not "just as many fans as my existing system".

      I have very quiet systems, with a LOT of fans... I'm not even interested in going fanless (even if it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg), since my DVD-ROM and hard drive are louder than the fans in my HTPC...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:Why such a fancy system? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Good point. But one question: where are you getting your HD source media from? I've not found anywhere that supplies them, so have concluded that it's something that I don't have an application for yet.

    5. Re:Why such a fancy system? by interiot · · Score: 1
      The only thing I've tried on my PC is the Apple Quicktime HD trailer for Cars, which didn't work very well at all on my 3 year old PC, it displayed like 2fps and acted like it wanted to die.

      On the XBox 360, you can get a bunch of 720p trailers for free too, those seem to work well. (some game trailers available for download here)

      I guess Windows Media 9 also supports HD, and there are some trailers available there too.

      OTA HD tuners are available now. CableCard is starting to become available. And there's some heavily-protected stuff on cable/satellite. But once HD-DVD or BluRay takes off, there will be a lot more content floating around. But there's probably some out on BitTorrent already.

    6. Re:Why such a fancy system? by geckofiend · · Score: 1

      How about an HDTV tuner card? Which, oddly enough, they put in the system.

    7. Re:Why such a fancy system? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got an old Athlon XP 1600+ that played 1080i transportstreams just fine, and at pretty high bitrates... And using some ghetto old nvidia card WITHOUT mpeg2-decoding hardware assist/acceleration.... It can even play mpeg4 at 720p resolution just fine.

      It's BEYOND overkill. Someone clearly had more money than brains.

    8. Re:Why such a fancy system? by ithicine · · Score: 1

      And what's the point of 2Gigs of RAM in a media system?

      When pausing TV with Media Center Edition, video is buffered into RAM before touching the HDD to keep the system responsive and reduce competition for one of the slower IO devices in a computer. If it went straight to HDD, you start to seriously bottleneck other applications. What if you're recording on one tuner for later viewing, while watching something else? Use hard drives for storage, and RAM for most anything temporary.

    9. Re:Why such a fancy system? by iowannaski · · Score: 1

      NO need to go that foar. Throw 720p at it and it will choke and die.

      --
      i forget
    10. Re:Why such a fancy system? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I play software-decoded HD content on my PC all the time, no problems (Athlon XP 2500+).

      I'm not sure what filters people are using that eat so much CPU, but if its worth a few hundred dollars to you, go ahead and buy that shiny new system.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    11. Re:Why such a fancy system? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but given that in my area at least there aren't any HDTV broadcasts, that's not a lot of use to me. :)

    12. Re:Why such a fancy system? by julesh · · Score: 1

      Really? Just tried it on a scaled-up MPEG4 avi file with media player classic, and it dropped six frames out of a 50 frame sample. Not great, but not exactly what I'd call a "choke and die" outcome.

      Now, maybe the fact that the AVI was scaled up from a 720x576 source made it easier, but I don't really see how.

  16. Silent mini ITX is easy by xtal · · Score: 3, Informative

    Pick up a fanless mini-itx board, get yourself one of the snap-on DC/DC converter kits from mini-box.com, or similar, put it in a nice box and away you go. I've made 3 of these so far and they work great, and are acceptably silent with quiet drive.

    If you want to go to the next level, boot the mini ITX board off compactflash and NFS mount your media off a server in the basement. This is what I did to get around some heat issues. Works like a CHARM.

    Fast enough for a great MythTV box, not sure why this is such a revelation.

    --
    ..don't panic
  17. no big deal by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

    I was at the local computerparts shop, you know the kind that has lots of all the stuff you want crammed in a closet size shop. I was looking for a fanless gfx card because I wanted to get started with a media PC myself. Anyway, they build their own fanless Microsoft media PCs with dual tuner etc. It looked nice and your choice of harddrive was the factor dertermining the noise leves. Granted it wasn't a high power machine, it was not a gamer PC.
    I have always buyed bleeding edge hardware that needed a lot of cooling. But if you are willing to stay just a step behind the ultra cool, it's easy to build a very quiet machine these days.

    Now the big deal(for me) is to get your gfx card and flatscreen tv to play together. Now I am happy that I have only choosen to use 60$ on a Geforce 6200 for testing. I am plugging my DVI on the pc into my HDMI port and I just can't get a resolution of 1366x768 which is the resolution of my tv, to work. of course I could just go for the S-VHS output or the analog d-sub PC port. but those won't give me 720p resolution. So I need to find a solution for this before I spend more money on that project.
    I did manage to get a usable image using 1080i and running 1900x1000(or someting) which the TV then downscales with a ATI x800 card. The picture were very crisp and with that Microsoft media keybord, I could thow my PC out of my living room and just use the media pc. But for some reason the picture were more fuzzy with the 6200 card.

    1. Re:no big deal by weiran · · Score: 1

      Actually, using a decent component cable will give you 1080p resolution, and if you use high quality component cables, it'll probably be better quality then a cheapo HDMI/DVI cable. I've had troubles getting my Pioneer 435 to work with PCs, but best solution is to just use good quality analogue and tweak the settings.

    2. Re:no big deal by getnate · · Score: 1

      HDMI/DVI is digital, component is analog. Component can only be equal, never better than HDMI/DVI. With digital you are not going to have graduated quality, either the bits get sent (100% quality) or they do not get sent (0% quality), assuming no error correction...

    3. Re:no big deal by interiot · · Score: 1
      Here's some advice on getting your computer to output 1366x768 (or check elsewhere in that forum).

      Though, if your TV is simply unable to accept that resolution, then you might have to go with a more typical 720p resolution (which might not be so bad, if the bezel on your TV chops the couple of extra pixels off anyway).

    4. Re:no big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hard drive noise meand nada with a decent case. If the hard drive is mounted with rubber isolation mounts then even a drive that sounds like it is chopping ice will be silent in a case.

      Crappy case = noise from hard drive.

    5. Re:no big deal by glennrrr · · Score: 1

      NVidia drivers cannot handle resolutions which are non-integral multiples of 8. 1366 is not a multiple of 8. Depending on the TV, you might be able to get it into 1to1 pixel mode and drive it at either 1368x768 or 1360x768. Some TVs do not allow 1to1 modes over DVI (like my new Syntax), some do (like older Syntaxs when in 4:3 mode). You can use the PowerStrip software to setup your own custom resolutions.

      Go to avsforum.com for more help.

    6. Re:no big deal by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      Oh, interesting! thanks for that tip. As someone else suggested, I am already browsing through avsforum.com, there's a lot of good stuff there.
      tnx

    7. Re:no big deal by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      I know, I have some old mounting brackets I found long time ago that really helps there.

    8. Re:no big deal by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      Excellent, I think I will spend a week reading the forums there before making any further investments in hardware. :D
      I think one of my current problems is scaling of the image right now, I can not get any picture if I send it something close to it's true resolutions but something 1286x689(not the excact numbers), gives me a image where something is cut out and I can use overscan to adjust the viewable area. But I need to play with it a bit more.

      Thanks.

    9. Re:no big deal by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      I don't think my screen will accept 1080p, only 1080i sadly. and it has a slight flicker for some reason, must be the conversion from interlace in the tv, because the 720p is rock solid.

  18. Nehemiah - Forgot One Part by fwitness · · Score: 1

    The case. Finding a mini-itx case that looks nice for under $150 is a bitch. You probably want some kind of storage too, be it flash or HDD based. Other than that, you list is entirely what I'm attempting to do to extend my Myth system.

    --
    -- I have fans? Wow.
  19. Tell ye what... by way2trivial · · Score: 0, Troll

    you decide exactly what slashdot should be, and go make that happen-- slashcode is available for free.

    I like a random spattering of weirdass topics.

    I just hate roland pipsqueaks stuff....

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:Tell ye what... by NeMon'ess · · Score: 1

      Fine, just as long as you don't think people should STFU and deal with duplicate articles on /. Ending those would be such a simple fix I can't bring myself to cut Taco and staff any slack for not taking care of those by now. I will say the problem is massively reduced these days.

  20. Fanless hardware not worth it by n0dalus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you have the space, it's way better to just buy $25 worth of shielded extension cables for your monitor, TV, audio, keyboard and mouse; put the computer around the corner or in the next room. I got my VGA cable for $15 (shielded), and two PS/2 cables for $5 each, then made my audio cables for a couple of dollars from good shielded wire and plugs. All 5 metres long. You can probably get this stuff cheaper if you look around.

    The only disadvantage is that you have to walk to the next room to put in a CD, but this is something I don't need to do very often. Compared to the time it takes to burn a CD or even just read a CD's TOC, walking around the corner is well worth the lasting peace and quiet. Why spend hundreds of dollars extra on hardware just to cut down noise?

    1. Re:Fanless hardware not worth it by interiot · · Score: 2, Informative

      I second the cable-extender thing... though it's actually cheaper to go with Cat5 for extending most things. You might need shielded cable for VGA/DVI/USB (stuff with a bitrate >100MHz), but PS/2 and audio and IR can definitely go a long long way over the cheaper Cat5.

    2. Re:Fanless hardware not worth it by cli_rules! · · Score: 2, Insightful
      External CD/DVD drive via USB2?

      That plus a custom IR remote might just about do it.

    3. Re:Fanless hardware not worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      got my VGA cable for $15 (shielded), and two PS/2 cables for $5 each [...] You can probably get this stuff cheaper if you look around.

      Yeah, in a landfill.

      What decade are you living in?

  21. who would have thought .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    .. that you CAN build a fully functional media center for 2500$.

    coming up next: build your own fully functional house for 1,000,000$.

  22. Skip MCE -- Go with MythTV by tji · · Score: 2, Informative

    I went through this same process when putting together a system for my MythTV box.

    MythTV allows for your frontent (display system) to be seperate from your backend (receiver cards, storage, transcoding - commercial removal, etc.). So you can make a big, cheap, powerful, loud system to do all the heavy lifting, and make a scaled down front-end as quiet as possible.

    But, if you need to put them all in one box, you should consider power/heat in all components. Here are the main points in mine:

    - Athlon64 CPU. Lower power requirements in general, and Cool 'n Quiet feature to slow down the processor, make it much better than Intels.
    - Large Heat Sink + Fan. A large copper Zalman HSF runs very quiet. In my system, with cool 'n quiet enabled, the fan actually turns off most of the time it's not doing heavy lifting.
    - Good case, designed for quiet operation. The Antec Sonata has a fairly quiet power supply (the newer unit has the single large fan on the underside of the PSU), and a large case fan. The large fans run slower/quieter and still push a lot of air.
    - Quiet HDD. I prefer Seagate Barracuda. This used to be hard to find, but now it seems most HDD manufacturers are making quiet drives with fluid bearings. The Antec case has rubber connectors where the HDD attaches to cut down on vibration noise. If you can use network file storage, using a 2.5" drive will cut down even more on power/noise/heat/vibration and size issues. (Taking it even further, some people use a flash based system, or network boot, to eliminate spinning disks completely).
    - Fanless Video Card. The Nvidia FX5200 can be found fanless from many places. It supports MPEG2 acceleration in Linux (XvMC) and works well with MythTV.

    Throw a Hauppage PVR-500 Dual SD tuner card in there, with a couple HD3000 cards from http://www.pchdtv.com/ and you've got a great MythTV PVR.

  23. Computer-Based PVR to the mass market by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Computer-Based Media Centers will be common when they have 3 things:

    1) Ease of Purchase. If I can order one online or in a store with everything I need, instead of in 20-30 different parts to install or solder or whatever, Joe Public will jump.
    2) Ease of Use. Can't be much harder to use a TiVo.
    3) Cost. It has to be cheap enough that the average person in a Western country could get it without having to agonize over the decision. So I'd say $800 is the upper limit.

    That means that it'll have to be relatively limited in what it can do. Maybe it can go light on software or something.

    1. Re:Computer-Based PVR to the mass market by MiKM · · Score: 1

      4) It is small and isn't unsightly. Remember, this will be in people's living rooms.

  24. TV Hum. by PopeOptimusPrime · · Score: 1

    The hum from my non-LCD tv annoys the piss out of me, and I should prefer the soothing undertones of cooling fans. Aah, 90mm of ambient goodness.

  25. "quiet"? by haelduksf · · Score: 1

    Quiet is all well and good, but if you want a *silent* HTPC, there is only one place to go: http://www.silentpcreview.com/.

    Full disclosure: I write news stories for SPCR.

  26. Where's the Verification? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So they go through all the hassel of putting one together, but then when they justify components they use purely subjective reasoning and then later don't even bother to back up their claims

    For example:
    While the CPU is certainly important, a lot of the work in a home theater PC is offloaded to other components to a certain degree. If you're using hardware-based TV cards (whether digital or analog) and an audio card with hardware DSP, then the CPU becomes less of an issue. Still, the processor can get pretty busy just managing system chores when you're trying to capture multiple video streams in DVR mode. So we decided we wanted a dual-core processor.

    Ok, so there's justification for not using a high end processor (offloading most processing to other components), but then they go ahead and drop in a a $330 dual core CPU. I think the only justification to pick this CPU is for the 'geek factor'.

    Lastly, after putting in a design like this why don't they go through and demonstrate that they components they chose were the right ones. How much memory does this thing consume while actually running common operations. What is the CPU usage for these same operations?

    Anybody can create a media PC, but a responsible reviewer should provide the justification for their steps and the proof that what they did was the best (or not the best) decision.

    1. Re:Where's the Verification? by stienman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, so there's justification for not using a high end processor (offloading most processing to other components), but then they go ahead and drop in a a $330 dual core CPU. I think the only justification to pick this CPU is for the 'geek factor'.

      In this case this is very appropiate. They had two HDTV tuners and two analog tuners. The HDTV tuners consume nearly 20Mbps each, while the analogs go up to 12Mbps. The CPU is doing a ton of work when recording 64Mbps of data to the hard drive - in fact, they indicated that the system really wasn't reacting well to other user actions while it was recording from all four tuners at once. It is likely that they couldn't have recorded from two and watched another at once.

      The dual core was a good choice, despite the lack of qualification. There are other system bottlenecks, and I suspect that they would have a better system if they went with a single core and spent the additional money on a striped raid and huge cache, extremely low latency hard drives to improve HD throughput. In a system like this you want to be able to write 64Mbps to the HD (not sequentially) and read 20Mbps simultaneously.

      -Adam

  27. Cablecard by Phantasmo · · Score: 1

    Cablecard will happen as soon as the pay-per-show services (i.e. iTunes, the rumoured Google offering) gain more momentum. Tell people that they can get only their favourite shows commercial-free for $2/hour and cable companies will bend over backwards to claw people back. They know it's coming. That's why they're begging us to get their PVRs now - they're taking a gamble on locking us in, and when that fails they'll start slashing prices and adding features until we turn back to the all-you-can-eat model.

    --

    The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
  28. Re:Where's the Verification? ($200 for audio??) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree -- there's little more to this article than "here's the geekiest new computer parts and what you can do with them". The final page of the article attempts to address this -- ooooh, the system's unresponsive while recording 4 video streams? -- but the conclusions aren't terribly useful.

    I'm at a loss to understand why they've spent over $200 for audio equipment. Apparently they've decided that the system absolutely must output digital audio, but the soundcard they've selected won't do that (at least under WMCE):

    One issue with the X-Fi--and we've seen this in other Windows Media Center solutions--revolves around problems with digital audio output. As it turns out, protected content isn't allowed through the digital audio output port. This includes DRMed music downloaded from pay music sites and DVD-Audio playback. However, Creative has a solution for this. It can best be described as a workaround that costs a hundred bucks. It's not elegant, but it does work. It's called the Home Theater Connect DTS-610.

    And from the conclusions:
    You can also integrate this pretty easily into an A/V rack, though you'll want the Creative DTS-610 converter box for greatest flexibility in playing back protected content.

    So what do they do after spending $100+ on a sound card? Spend another $100 on an external device that converts analog to digital. Why? So they can say "see? it outputs digital!"?? Any advantage of using digital audio goes out the window when the computer is forced to output analog. By introducing another conversion step into the process you're making your audio sound worse, not better!

    And the submitter claims this additional $100 POS lets you "bypass some DRM".... isn't that why they call it an analog hole?
  29. Check out MS and LG's new digital media hub by I'm+Don+Giovanni · · Score: 1

    Sounds like you guys are talking about the LG LRM-519 machine just released last week.
    Microsoft and LG release the LG LRM-519 digital media recorder.

    --
    -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
  30. Keep waiting by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    One drawback: We're still waiting for the cable and satellite companies to get it together on CableCard, so the system has to do without.

    Why would the content providers agree to let homebrew PVR's use CableCard? One of the main reasons people build their own PVR, rather than just buying a TiVo for much less, is to have more control over the device and avoid DRM, which is precisely why digital cable/sattelite feeds are encrypted to begin with.

  31. Crappy article by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1
    As long as your TV card has hardware mpg encoding, a Duron 700 with 256 megs of ram would be more than sufficient to do this.

    At 5 bucks a month, it would take 500 months to break even on this $2500 system.

    Well, that's not entirely true. You'd also have to buy a 50 dollar DVD player.

  32. Re:Slight Contradiction no retardation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviousally you know NOTHING about Tv's or Pc's.

    Here let me put it to you in very simple terms. An 8 meg $15.00 video card will work perfectly all the way up to insane resolutions, although no HDTV sold can go up to those insane resolutions. a HTPC is not made to play Quake4 at 9000Fps at the top resolution. an HTPC is designed to play Video content, something that a $3.00 video card can do easily.

    now go and lear something about computers ant tv's cince it is blindingly obvious that you know absolutely nothing about either.

  33. You can go smaller by dbIII · · Score: 1

    There are smaller board formats than the 120mmx120mm form factor - the trick is to find an industrial automation supplier that will sell it to you. "It's Joe Bloggs from ..." or "I'm a student at ..." and the magic words "cash sale" will usually do the job. You really just have to let them know that if you have a problem you have other avenues to follow to solve it instead of burdening them with newbie hassles. You may even end up with something you had no clue existed with better specs and for a better price than the board you were originally after. A lot of these places don't bother to keep their websites up to date.

  34. Fanless computer project by ScooterBill · · Score: 1

    I put together a system using the Zalman TN-500 case. This thing is expensive but it is incredibly well made and would probably survive a small nuke. I needed a quiet PC for my home recording studio but didn't want to sacrifice performance. I've got a 3.2 GHz P4 with an ATI XT800 Pro GPU. I can play the latest FPS games at full speed and I don't hear a thing from the PC except a faint disk drive access at times. I'll probably try to boot from flash and run the drives in another room with a gigabit network connection. The Zalman case sucks heat from all the critical motherboard components using these gold heat pipes to these massive fins on the outside of the case. The temp of the whole thing runs in the low 30s celsius all the time.

  35. Re:shamazoidt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah that Music Player Daemon, and a couple hundred gigs of flacs make a great home stereo box.

  36. Still A Problem. by u16084 · · Score: 0

    All These home DVR thingies still mean nothing to me.
    Its just another BOX on top of the Cable Box. Most DVR from Cable Providers suck, but we put up with them. why? Well, putting aside all the drm stuff, streaming, and sharing of your recorded content, its still just another box on top of all your other stuff. My Current box allows me to record 2 DIGITAL CHANNELS while I play back a 3rd. Untill the CableCard becomes a standard, Ill stick with my leased box. By the time the 5$ something a month catches up to the almost $3000 price tag of a descent setup, CableCards will be standard issue, and then, it would make perfect logic to stop leasing and "beef" things up.

    --
    -- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
  37. $200 on sound hardware? by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
    The sound hardware seems totally OTT. I built a media PC and I bought an Intel motherboard with a 7.1 audio chipset with S/PDIF output onboard for about 80ukp. I just plug it into my AV amp, and that's it - sound is a solved problem. What exactly does the sound card in this setup do that will make a difference to a media PC? I mean, all the sound will be 100% digital until it arrives at the amp, so having marvellous SNR or something is pointless anyway.

    Or is it so they can play games with uber sound processing effects?

    (Also, I guess, I haven't been dumb enough to buy DRM'd online music or DVD-Audio, so the $100 rip-off dongle is a non-starter for me anyway).

    1. Re:$200 on sound hardware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I mean, all the sound will be 100% digital until it arrives at the amp, so having marvellous SNR or something is pointless anyway.


      Nope. All the sound will be 100% analog as it leaves the soundcard, THEN it enters the DTS dongle and is reconverted to digital for routing to the amp. Unless they route both the dongle and the soundcard's digital out into the amp, but the article doesn't address how this system is hooked into the home theatre.

      As far as I can tell, the only purpose for using the dongle is to be able to send digital audio into the receiver/amp. I'm assuming this is because they have some fancy DTS amp and want to say they're using the toy.
    2. Re:$200 on sound hardware? by DarkJC · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, the only point of the dongle is to work around the fact that the sound card refuses to output DRM encrusted content, such as online-store bought music or DVD-Audio, out the digital port. If you don't listen to either of those things, the dongle is useless, and you might as well just route everything out the digital port. My question is, does anyone know if DVD-Audio just refers to the DVD-Audio format discs, or does it include the audio tracks for DVD Movies as well? If so, then suddenly the dongle becomes a hell of a lot more useful.

  38. If you MUST use a fan by Burz · · Score: 1
    ...consider using a Nexus fan. I have several in different systems, and they are absolutely the quietest I've heard (without being wimpy).

    After that, I think those (often colorful) Antec fans with the variable speed switch are rather good and quiet.

  39. just finishing building a MCE designed to be quiet by saphint · · Score: 1

    Motherboard Foxconn 945P7AA-8EKRS2 X1 Ram Corsair DDR2667 512MB X2 O/S Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition 2005 (OEM) X1 w/ MCE Remote and keyboard Dvd Burner Pioneer DVR-110D Silver X1 Case Thermalrock Mystic X1 Harddrive Western Digital 200G 7200RPM 8MB SATA-II X1 Tuner DViCo FusionHDTV DVB-T Hybrid X 2 CPU Celeron D "336" 2.80Ghz 256k LGA775 Retail 533Mhz X1 Graphics Card 6200GT 256Mb PCI-E X1 Cables Aerial Cables X3 Aerial Splitter X1 HDMI-DVI Cable X1 cost just under $AUS2000, its perfect. sleek, quiet, low heat. everything is just running perfect. cheaper to then that build.

  40. Nano-ITX boards by Amgine007 · · Score: 1
    Does anyone have a nano-ITX case for the modern nano-ITX boards?

    No; it wasn't worth it to design and tool a whole new case for the only board in existence, which seems to have been mistakenly shipped to you.

    In all seriousness, where did you get your board (and for how much)? I saw mini-itx claim a few are in the wild in Japan. Any luck stateside?
    1. Re:Nano-ITX boards by renehollan · · Score: 1
      I'd have to check the invoice and post back. I vaguely remember getting it from a U.S. distributer that specialised in Car PC computers, of all things. They had two left in stock when I ordered mine (though they claimed to be able to get as many as required to fill demand). It was around US$400. 512 MB of RAM were extra ($80 or so), as were a slimline CDRW/DVDROM drive (around $150).

      As for the LC08 case (around $150), word from Silverstone is that they plan to retool, but don't have an ETA.

      I am half-tempted to cut a new backplate for the case that I have.

      I really wanted to use the nano-ITX because of the CN400 HD resolution MPEG2 decoder and VT1625 component out chip, but it looks like the new LC08 case will not be fanless (the old one had a heatblock to case solution) -- Via is, supposedly, not permitting a fanless design.

      An alternative is a more traditional PC, with S/W MPEG2 decoding, in a HUSH PC case, but now we're looking at hundreds of dollars for the case alone.

      A silent, flash-basd, nano-ITX solution, with a heatpipe for thermal management sounds like it would be a killer MythTV client.

      --
      You could've hired me.
  41. Is your name Steve Jobs by any chance? by melted · · Score: 1

    How do you know what they will or will not include?

  42. Linux, GFX, VIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would rather want a Linux system on my HTPC/MediaCenter, than MS Windows Media Center edition.

    Also, wouldnt it be enough to use an integrated graphics circuit card than an graphics card?

    VIA Mini-ITX sure looks interesting for this kind of things.

  43. What is LIMP 1.2? by Faithman2k · · Score: 1

    I tried googling it and couldn't find anything in relation to media pc etc

    1. Re:What is LIMP 1.2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LiMP is a tiny live cd based linux disto that has mplayer on it
      try google "limp linux player" or "limp linux mplayer"

  44. MythTV is CONFIGURATION HELL! by Paul+Crowley · · Score: 1

    Everyone at my work is very smart. Three of us decided to build ourselves MythTV boxes. Of the three, only I succeeded, and only because I had a friend who had already succeeded to help me finish the process. As things stood about six months ago, I could not recommend installing MythTV to anyone because they might simply never get it working.

    It doesn't need a "skin" to fix this problem - in fact, I'd have been much happier if I'd been able to configure most of it with a text editor - it needs to rethink the fundamentals of how most things are configured.

    --
    Xenu loves you!
    1. Re:MythTV is CONFIGURATION HELL! by modemboy · · Score: 1

      Try knoppmyth, a knoppix based distro:
      www.mysettopbox.tv

      Makes the hardware stuff way easy, I had mine working the first time in about 2 hours and now I can setup a system in under a half hour, and I consider myself to be just barely knowledgeable using linux.

  45. Sound like they put a Ford engine in a Ferrari by lucason · · Score: 1

    Why the HELL would they choose WMCE for this hardware!? Actually going to the trouble of getting past DRM just to encode it to MS proprietary format? How silly can you get?

    1. Re:Sound like they put a Ford engine in a Ferrari by mkv · · Score: 1

      Why the HELL would they choose WMCE for this hardware!? Actually going to the trouble of getting past DRM just to encode it to MS proprietary format? How silly can you get?


      This may come as a shock to you but not everybody knows nor cares to know just what the hell is a "proprietary format". BTW, you might be delighted to know that there is also free software that uses the .dvr-ms file format produced by XP MCE. Check out mediaportal, some seem to like it and even prefer it over MCE. I used it for a while but got tired of it's general lack of quality.

      --
      The secret to a successful /. career: Blame Microsoft
  46. Enter the fanboy DeLuxe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bought an Xbox 360, which is positioned as a media centric device, ideal for in the living room. Must admit that the design at least is okay (not brilliant), so it is not something ugly in your living room ... but those fans. Jeez, I'm still amazed by the noise the thing makes. Unbelievable and I already put back my good old revoy DVD player and I'm crossing my fingers for Apple to come up with a good solution, because the Xbox 360 ain't.

  47. Quiet fan -- in a projector? by lpress · · Score: 1

    Any suggestions for a quiet projector?