Barcode Scam Redux - Target's $4.99 iPod

The crime is in getting caught... by jmp_nyc · 2005-12-04 13:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Of course, we only hear about the ones stupid enough to get caught. I wonder what percentage of people attempting barcode scams aren't caught (or publicized, to save the store embarrassment). Similarly, I wonder if stories like this increase or reduce the number of people trying these scams...
-JMP

Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 13:32 · Score: 5, Funny

Increase for sure, I'm going to try this tomorrow morning.

Don't mod this funny.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by toddbu · 2005-12-04 13:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think that the bigger question is how much it costs to prevent such theft. If it doesn't happen often, why would a store put in a permanent fix for the problem? They don't station security guards at the end of every aisle to prevent casual stealing, so why is this any different?

--
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by brunes69 · 2005-12-04 13:50 · Score: 5, Informative

If it doesn't happen often, why would a store put in a permanent fix for the problem?
They already have. It's called RFID. If you have been around this site for the past two years, you've probably heard of it.
It's much harder to forge an RFID tag unless you have the private key of the transmitter, or have some high-tech spy equipment that can capture the entire negotiation stream between the transmitter and target to crack it later... and the cost of doing either of these things would be prohibitive to anyone who wants to make money off shoplifting (you'd be better off planning a bank robbery).
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by bjwest · 2005-12-04 13:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

The crime is in getting caught? No, the crime was in fraudulently purchasing items. What's wrong with today's youth that think it's not cheating or stealing if you don't get caught? No wonder crime is such a problem. You need to grow up and realize that breaking the rules/law is wrong whether or not you get caught.

--

--- Keep the choice with the user..
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by brunes69 · 2005-12-04 14:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

You'd probably have a harder time getting cutting open a box, removing the product, hunting down the tag, ans swapping it, all by the security cameras, than discreetly sticking on a barcode.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by 084883447 · 2005-12-04 14:07 · Score: 4, Informative

Theft is something that the big box stores build into their margins. For example, they know that some percentage (surprisingly large) will walk out the door, either in customer's or employee's hands (i call it shrinkage). They will price their products that much higher to make up for the loss. Usually, they dont spend that much on theft deterrance, because it really is a loosing battle, and they risk alienating their real customers.

So, the moral of the story is: if you must steal, steal from the big box stores because they have already accounted for you.

--
-johnson
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by beefypirate · 2005-12-04 14:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

I used to work at Menards (For those of you not in Wisconsin, it's basically like Home Depot) and I had someone come through my register with a huge table saw and they had put a sticker from a $0.99 candle over the code I had to scan. I called him on it and turns out he didn't want the saw after all. We even had a special training tape devoted to this. Stores are obviously aware this kind of thing happens, so having a lawsuit like this is good publicity for them, I think.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by imsabbel · 2005-12-04 14:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

And 95.21% statistics are bullshit made up on the spot.

One hint: 10 orders of magnitudes more than a single ipod is more than the domestic product of the world... during this whole decade.

--
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Fjornir · 2005-12-04 14:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

While you are right that the big box stores do adjust their pricing to make up for the loss, a lot of that money you're foolish to think that they're not watching you. True, they're not interested in "deterrance [sic]" -- but they are definately interested in stopping thieves (and that knowledge is certainly a deterrent to some, I'm sure).
The fact is that a candy bar or an iPod doesn't impact them all that much. But even those add up fast. But the real damage comes from people who find a decent grift and work it well. That can add up to a serious pile of money fast -- doubly bad if their scam takes money out of the registers and into the pockets of the naughty boys.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Zleeper · 2005-12-04 14:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

No, silly, the moral to the story is to just print all sorts of bar codes and just put it on items on the shelves and leave them there. 1 per model. Then the store will spend inordinate amount of effort to keep track of these ridiculous bar codes, and in the interim, some people will inadvertently get a "bargain" they didn't realize.
Fun, fun, fun.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by modecx · 2005-12-04 14:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

What's to stop one from carrying around an RFID disabling device of some sort... It could be as simple as a magnetron from a microwave, or a custom built EM pulse generator! The purpose being that you don't have to cut the package apart to get at the RFID. You hold it up to your jacket, fry the RFID wherever it may be, and stick another RFID inconspicuously ON the box/package that you swapped from some other item outside of the store. Heck, maybe use a makeshift RFID syringe to just inject it into the corrugations in the cardboard, or into the plastic case, or whatever packaging your item of desire is contained in. Nobody is going to pay attention to a millimeter wide hole, even if they do see it.

Of course, you'd be barking mad to make your iPods $5. That's far too noticeable. In fact, it would be best to avoid the bigger name brand items, because everyone knows about how much they are. Tons of people have iPods, and so I'd guess a fair amount of cashiers do as well. So, I guess the thieves have to buy or at least steal a product with a desirable tag--or perhaps buy and return, sans tag.

RFID is not a solution to theft. It's probably not going to slow anyone down, even. If there is money to be stolen, someone clever will figure it out, and they'll tell someone else about it, and so on. Having an intelligent chunk of meat there to reference everyone's receipt to their items... Now, that's a solution that can't be defeated so easily.

--
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Ratbert42 · 2005-12-04 15:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

What's interesting is that he's facing a felony count because he used the old barcode trick. If he'd just stuffed it down his pants and walked out he'd just have a misdemeanor theft. Did any of us realize that printing a label raised the stakes so much?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by M0b1u5 · 2005-12-04 15:20 · Score: 2, Flamebait

We have a similar word in the English language: "losing". "Loosing" is an incorrect form of "Loosening": the act of making something less tight.

--
How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by JourneyExpertApe · 2005-12-04 15:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

They don't station security guards at the end of every aisle to prevent casual stealing, so why is this any different?

While not at the end of every aisle, they do post guards at the entrances/exits. Or did you think the Walmart "greeters" were there just to welcome you and help you get a shopping cart? I've been asked to present my reciept when exiting both Walmart and K-mart on more than one occasion.

The real issue here is how the cachiers are supposed to know when an item rings up less than the actual price. In this case, it was pretty obvious to anybody that is familiar with iPods and how much they cost. But how can they be expected to know if you put a fake barcode on a big TV that was $100 less than the actual price?

--
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by slavemowgli · 2005-12-04 15:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

You need to grow up and realize that breaking the rules/law is wrong whether or not you get caught.

That's not true. Violating basic ethical principles is wrong; and of course, laws ideally should embody these, but they don't always do that, and in cases where they're not - especially cases where the law is actually opposed to those principles -, it's not wrong in an ethical sense to break the law.

Not that that's the case here, of course; sticking custom bar codes on stuff in order to pay a lower price is pretty much a textbook example of fraud, I think. But I think it's worth keeping in mind that you should follow the law because it's what's right, not simply because it's "the law".

--
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by ozmanjusri · 2005-12-04 16:00 · Score: 4, Funny

Having an intelligent chunk of meat there to reference everyone's receipt to their items.

So you're suggesting a steak-out?

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by stienman · 2005-12-04 16:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's much harder to forge an RFID tag

True.

unless you have the private key of the transmitter, or have some high-tech spy equipment that can capture the entire negotiation stream between the transmitter and target to crack it later... and the cost of doing either of these things would be prohibitive to anyone who wants to make money off shoplifting (you'd be better off planning a bank robbery).

False. The stores aren't going to spend more than a penny or so per tag, and the tags will not be encrypted. They will have individual id numbers, though, and these will be stored in a database - much like a serial number. So you'll have to scan an existing unsold item in the store and duplicate that tag onto your target item. This is going to be difficult and expensive, since you have to disable the existing tag (inside the packaging) and add your own tag in an unobtrusive manner.

It is harder than barcodes, which anyone can print from their own computer. But I doubt retailers are going to be employing anything more than the simplest 64 or 128 bit ID. These can still be duplicated with a simple circuit (coil, a few passives, maybe a tiny battery) and microcontroller. Should be small enough to fit under a sticker: "New! Improved!" or "2 Year Warranty!" or "Newspeak V5.2 Included!"

The real deterrent is that when they scan the item you stole the tag from, they'll notice it's been sold, and a stock check will show up the missing item you stole. Since they are tagged with serial numbers they can track down your transaction. With even the time, date, and cash register number they'll be able to pull up camera footage if you were smart enough to pay cash. If not then they'll have lots of electronic information about your CC, debit card, or check to track you down with.

The biggest advantage to using RFID is not easier and more accurate scanning, it's that every item in the store now has a serial number and exists in the database. Better stock control will improve the bottom line - this is Walmart's biggest strength. If everyone goes to RFID then Walmart will have many more significant competitors since a lot of the operation they've worked so hard on is built into the whole RFID system. Perhaps one reason why they aren't pushing it so hard.

-Adam
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by melikamp · 2005-12-04 16:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

if you must steal, steal from the big box stores because they have already accounted for you.
I worked for a while for Fry brothers, in the loss prevention department. The attitude there is just the opposite of "it's been accounted for". While they, no doubt, have to adjust their pricing due to theft, you should know that they are doing everything they can to minimize the losses -- all the way to zero.
One way they do it is, of course, by increasing security. And the other way -- by having employees (mostly managers) to pay for stolen items out of their own pay checks (so they do at Fry's -- I don't know about other stores). I have been treated to a tale about one courageous manager who literally dragged a customer out of his car through the window, because the latter was about to drive away without paying for his new car audio system.
The moral is: stealing is difficult and risky, regardless of the store size. And I would say, it only gets harder as the potential loss goes up. If you want to have it easy, you have to steal something that no one else is stealing, but then you won't be stealing anything worthwhile :)
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Cramer · 2005-12-04 16:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oh, he's still charged with theft. By printing those barcodes, he's stepped into the realm of fraud. (and he ain't a big enough fish (CEO) to get away with it.)

And it would appear he's probablly lying, too... seeing as he pulled the same scam to steal the printer he used to print his barcodes. The whole "poor student" crap isn't going to get him very far either. He wasn't swaping barcodes on produce at the local mega-mart; he's stealing expensive electronics by defrauding the store. If it were simply walking out without paying for it, the store might've let it go without pressing charges -- poor college kid and all, but knowing he's defrauded the store, they aren't about to let him walk.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Greyfox · 2005-12-04 17:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Today's youth? You mean like the Congressmen and corporate CEOs who gave been making the news lately? Remember that Congressman last week? The one who was tearfully resigning because he'd got caught taking bribes? And he started crying during his resignation speech? Well if he really cared about that crap he was talking about at the time (The trust of his family or some such) he wouldn't have taken the bribes in the first place. He was a happy camper until he got caught. That's what he was really crying about. Life was good until he got caught. Live was good for those Tycho guys, the Enron guys, the MCI guy, Martha Stewart... All right up until they got caught. You going to point your finger at the kids and ask what is wrong with them? Well they don't have very good role models, for one thing.

--
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by einhverfr · 2005-12-04 17:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

It is also insufficient just to get the discount. For example, if I were a prankster, I would copy the barcode, alter it, print out on labels, put them on items, and put the items back on the shelf, you know, with bogus prices.

$4.99 for an Ipod. $300 for a DVD, you know. Worse, I would then put a bunch of stickers on with prices that are close but not perfect. 10% off some items, 10% more on others.

--

LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by plover · 2005-12-04 17:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sorry, but you're really incorrect there on a lot of counts. First, shrinkage as a percent of sales due to theft has actually shrunk in the past few years, mostly due to enormous investments in loss prevention systems and paid restitution from the theives they've caught. Yes, the major retailers account for shrinkage in the price, but they also spend incredible amounts of money on anti-theft systems. They'll even push the limits of alienating their best customers to stop thieves. And they will announce it, too. They've stopped worrying about "embarrasment" -- they want the thieves to know they'll be caught if they try to steal from them. If they can deter the thieves, it's better all around -- prosecution is expensive, even with the promise of restitution. Having the bad guys not show up is a win-win. The stores' costs go down. And the would-be thief isn't a bad guy, and doesn't go to jail and screw up his life with a criminal record.
Retail theft from big box stores is a huge business, you might be amazed at the levels of both sophistication and brutality involved in the crime rings that have developed around the practice. Retailers are in the position of having to come down hard on every thief in hopes that they're breaking into one of these rings. And the systems that are in place to catch these big thieves can also catch the little guys.
Even your advice is no good: if you steal from the big box stores, expect to be expertly prosecuted like a major-league thief if you get caught. If you steal from a mom & pop store, they might not have the resources to bring you to justice. For example, a friend of mine owns a convenience store in a summer resort town, and he's thinking he'll have to go out of business due to the theft of his 4th of July receipts. He can't afford to take time to fight all the legal battles and still hold down his day job. And any restitution he may hope for will take far too long to receive to keep the store open in the meantime.
So my advice is "Stealing is stealing: if you must steal, reconsider your options."

--
John
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Literaphile · 2005-12-04 18:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

And the other way -- by having employees (mostly managers) to pay for stolen items out of their own pay checks (so they do at Fry's -- I don't know about other stores)

Wow, I sure hope that's illegal (forcing employees to pay for stolen goods)! Because if not, it should be... I'm pretty sure it is, at least here in Canada.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by roman_mir · 2005-12-04 18:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

But sure they are. Why shouldn't I murder except for fear of being commited to a maximum security prison? Everything else is just about the same.

--
You can't handle the truth.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by misleb · 2005-12-04 18:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

While I agree that it is still stealing (and wrong) even if you don't get caught, I dont' think it necessarily has anything to do with the laws against it. Laws do NOT define morality (at least for me). It is perfectly conceivable that the law can be wrong. The DMCA is a perfect example.

-matthew

--
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by AndroidCat · 2005-12-04 18:37 · Score: 5, Funny

they are doing everything they can to minimize the losses -- all the way to zero.
Only to zero? If they were creative, they'd have a few store pickpockets on the floor--they'd soon be showing a profit in the security dept!

--
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Browncoat · 2005-12-04 19:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

I used to work for Victoria's Secret (yes, I'm a girl) and we were told that if someone was stealing and you saw them steal, you can't do anything about it until they leave the store. The key is to call security and have them at the door, waiting for them to leave. Or, have security walk through the store and become a presence to everyone, so the thief will hopefully put back whatever he/she took.
As far as I know, from the time I was there, we haven't had to call security to physically stop anyone. Their presence was pretty much all it took for us to know that we at least minimized the theft, even if they did end up making out with some merchandise.

--
"Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal!"
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by pureevilmatt · 2005-12-04 19:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most religious commandments are either pointless or redundant with the exception of a single unifying slogan/moral. 'the 10 commandments' basically boil down to rules designed to (1)perpetuate the religion which (when taken outside the context of the religion) are pointless, and (2) a single unifying rule for righteous human conduct: "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." You don't want to be murdered, so don't murder other people. You don't want your bike stolen, so don't steal another person's bike. You don't want your spouse to cheat on you, so don't cheat on your spouse. Those are very basic, logical, and intuitive tenets whose underlying sentiment is ubiquitously referred to as the golden rule. Plainly put: The Golden Rule Just Makes Sense. It employs rudimentary empathy common to most humans to determine the best course of action on a situational basis. The Golden rule requires no preconceived notions or support system of beliefs to be effective. It is not necessarily always a way to determine what is right or what is wrong, but it can be used as such. It is not a steadfast moral or ethic like all commandments built upon it. The golden rule is a pure and simple method that employs first thoughts, then analyzation, deliberation, and then action to achieve the best outcome in any given situation. Put yourself in another's 'shoes' before acting to determine if the effects of the action are universally desirable. This singular sentiment is shared by all of earth's successful religions. Buddhism's equivalent can be derived most easily from the law of karma. The Taoists say that Chi follows Yi. The Hindus place profound importance in the Crown chakra. And the 6 of the 10 judeo-christian commandments not dealing with god directly perfectly embody this sentiment. I, like the GP, am an athiest, that does not mean that I think "anything goes". People like the GP give athiests bad names. Like so many people these days, I bet he's either stupid or has been corrputed by the pursuit of that other golden rule. "He who has the gold, makes the rules."
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by pureevilmatt · 2005-12-04 19:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

Every human lives under the primary influence of 1 of 2 golden rules:
The golden rule: Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
-or-
The golden rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Disposable+Rob · 2005-12-04 19:40 · Score: 2, Funny

"No, you don't" in my best "don't screw with me, I'm psycho" voice. With that, she looked like she was about to burst into tears, which leads me to believe that they don't get too many people that refuse their request Heh. This sounds like an excerpt from a really bad piece of fiction. Like Richard Marcinko's Rogue Warrior in Task Force Wal-Mart
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by rossz · 2005-12-04 19:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

It varies by state. Here in California, it is definately illegal. It's also illegal for a store employee to lay a finger on you. That's called battery.

I worked with someone who was a former security employee of Frys. He was under the impression that it was perfectly ok to rough up suspected thieves. Bullshit. My aunt is the V.P. of security for a _major_ clothing chain. She couldn't emphesize enough that you never, ever use force of any type to detain someone. The potential damage in lawsuits (and public relations) is way too much compared to the tiny merchandise loss if someone decided to resist. Especially if it turned out to be a mistake (which does happen).

The rules she used at her chain:

1. You must see the person take the item.
2. You must never lose sight of that person from that moment until they leave the store.
3. You had security personal confront the person AFTER they left the store. 99% of the time the person just gave up on the spot.
4. You called the police immediately.

For that 1% who didn't cooperate. Security simply followed the person until they could get a license plate number, then called the police.

--
-- Will program for bandwidth
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by rossz · 2005-12-04 19:44 · Score: 4, Funny

So what's the pay to work at Victoria's Secret?

I think I can swing about $10/hour. I'm not sure I can afford to pay more without cutting back my hours severely.

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-- Will program for bandwidth
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by gcatullus · 2005-12-04 20:56 · Score: 2, Informative

At a loss prevention seminar heard teh following: 5% of people will always steal no matter what, 10% of people will never steal no matter what, but teh other 85% will steal if thefollowing conditions are met. 1 That they don't feel they will get caught 2 That they have a need, real or perceived for the money, item, etc. 3 They have the oppourtunity. If you make a manager pay for shrink out of pocket, then the employer is creating a "need, real or percieved" in the manager to steal it back. Not a very smart idea, since they already have the oppourtunity and they probably know how lickely it would be for them to be caught.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by 0bilix · 2005-12-04 21:13 · Score: 3, Insightful

It would be kind of stupid to get killed because you dragged the wrong guy out of a window.
Seems kinda stupid to me to kill someone because they were dragging you out of a window whatever the reason, never mind preventing a crime ... but then again I live in a country where even the cops don't carry guns so *shrug* maybe such a gross over-reaction is deemed acceptable in your part of the world...
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2005-12-04 22:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

The publics will to live by laws is weakened by the existence of bad laws with no moral authority behind them.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by chefren · 2005-12-04 23:20 · Score: 2, Funny

You have to be proven guilty. Who the hell is going to do that?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by shmlco · 2005-12-04 23:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

Explains the rational behind music and software downloads perfectly, doesn't it? Little chance of getting caught, you get something you want, and it's easy to do.

--
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by loraksus · 2005-12-04 23:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm sorry, but would you just go limp and not defend yourself if some random person (the fry's managers don't wear uniforms where I live, and the whole point of my post was what if someone made a mistake) pulled you (or attempted to) through your car window?
Or would you fight?
If you did, would you use a fist? your keys? a bat? a knife?
Anything you had within reach? I'm pretty sure you would use anything in reach because I don't think you could decide as to what you would use to defend yourself between the time it took for the guy to grab you and the time your ass hit the pavement.

Not sure of your ethical standards, but once someone is actually trying to hurt me or my family I'm going to defend myself with whatever I have handy unless they identify themselves as the police or something similar. If you don't feel that way, well, fine, I guess, but I think your post has more to do with "OMFG!!!1 t3h gunz!!" than an argument on whether someone should fight back with whatever they have handy if they are pulled out their car.
*shrug* I guess.

Getting pulled out of a car is an extremely violent and aggressive action - it is inexcusable for a store employee (anyone, for that matter - except perhaps the police in the most extreme circumstances) to do this, likewise, the attacker should expect an extremely violent and aggressive response.

And if you believe that every situation that occurs between an armed person and someone else ends in a shooting, you're wrong.
While armed, I've personally been robbed once (stupid drunk jock decided to steal a toner cartridge) and have had someone try to mug me. In both cases, I had a handgun either in my hand or in a pocket, but didn't even draw it in (in the first case, the handgun was in the trunk / boot)
Sometimes letting a drunk take an $80 item or throwing a swift punch to the side of the head is all that is necessary to diffuse a situation.
Amazingly, people carrying guns don't become mindless killers that will shoot people at the slightest provocation.

Oh, and although you may be under the impression that your police officers are unarmed - this doesn't necessarily mean they don't carry. Some NZ police carry in an armpit holster, some (usually higher ranking officers) carry multiple firearms in their trunks of their cars. Heck, NZ cops (airport, etc) _have_ to carry and some cop shot a guy for attacking people with a baseball bat a few years ago, but they carry concealed to make the public feel good.

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1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by shmlco · 2005-12-04 23:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

It would be kind of stupid to get thrown in prison for escalating a case of mistaken identity into manslaughter. Which would be the case when you responded with lethal force to a non-lethal attack.
The victim's family would have a great civil case too...

--
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by shawb · 2005-12-05 00:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

From what I understand about physical security, it's impossible to make something impenetrable, so what you do is try to at least make it obvious that someone got in. Someone punching through the drywall or a window will make it obvious that there was a breakin.

--
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by loraksus · 2005-12-05 00:21 · Score: 2

Well then, perhaps we should, oh, I don't know, make it illegal for a manager to do such a stupid thing.
Oh... wait...

And to be clear, this isn't just a simple case of mistaken identity. If true, it involves assault - to say nothing of battery (ok, not really an Oregon thing, we define it as assault in xth degree), reckless endangerment, possibly manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide if the vehicle was left in gear and ran over someone.
I'm quite sure there are a couple dozen misdemeanors as well as the civil stuff you can add on top of this, but I don't think we need to.

And while I suppose it depends on your state, the use of "deadly physical force" may be justified in this situation.
"Deadly physical force" (defined as "force readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury") is only lawful when it is used against a person reasonably believed to be attempting to commit a felony involving the threatened or imminent use of physical force against a person ORS 161.219. While there may be some debate as to whether getting pulled out of a car window and dropped on the pavement is assault 3 or 4, it clearly isn't the same as poking someone in the chest.

To reiterate - if this story is true, the fry's manager did "A Fucking Stupid Thing" (TM). You can't use mistaken identity as a "get out of jail and absolve yourself of all responsibility" card in this case.

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1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by moonbender · 2005-12-05 00:39 · Score: 2, Funny

Apparently people around are shot, get run over, etc? Did you by any chance recently win the lottery with the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42? If so, avoid planes to and from Australia. Call it a hunch.

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Re:The crime is in getting caught... by plover · 2005-12-05 00:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

A jammer works only when it's powered on, and will not disable an RFID tag in any way. They only jam the readers, not the transmitters. They're indiscriminate: they won't jam only the switched tag, they'll interfere with reading everything. If you turned a jammer on at checkout time, the cashier wouldn't be able to read any of your merchandise with an RF reader, and would end up hand-scanning (or worse, hand-keying) every item in your cart. The result would be a slower checkout, but likely no theft.

--
John
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by loraksus · 2005-12-05 00:59 · Score: 2

I guess when I make a mistake and step on your toe you're going to bash me in the head with a club? How about gouging out my eye if I ring your doorbell by mistake because I have the wrong address...

Hold on, let me go fetch some straw, a pole and some string.

--
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by psyon1 · 2005-12-05 01:52 · Score: 3, Funny

I always preferred just ripping the anti-theft stickers off, and throwing them on the floor for people step on.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by pdhenry · 2005-12-05 02:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

On the other hand, could it be that the store that's locked down has actually had a higher incidence of shopliftting than the one that has everything out in the open, and the lockdown is a reaction to that?
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by Peter+La+Casse · 2005-12-05 03:05 · Score: 2

Amazingly, people carrying guns don't become mindless killers that will shoot people at the slightest provocation.
But that's exactly what you would be doing according to your description. If someone pulled me out of my car through the window WITHOUT USING A WEAPON I would hit him back with punches and whatnot but I would definitely avoid killing him.

Pulling someone out of a car through the window is not "the slightest provocation". If someone is big and strong enough to do that to me, against my will, then they're big and strong enough to seriously injure me with their bare hands. My bare hands, alas, are not very good at fighting; if I were in that situation, and (as is likely) I did not have a firearm, I would be in for the beating of my life, resulting in potentially life-long injuries. How is it extreme to defend yourself from that with a firearm, if you have one and are trained in its use? From a practical perspective, if you had a firearm and your assailant didn't, that would probably end the fight right there. If your assailant is aware that you have the ability to defend yourself (regardless of what the means is) then most of the time they will be deterred from attacking you in the first place.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by MrNiceguy_KS · 2005-12-05 03:27 · Score: 2

On the other hand, could it be that the store that's locked down has actually had a higher incidence of shopliftting than the one that has everything out in the open, and the lockdown is a reaction to that?
Man, I wish I had mod points. I can't believe this is only at 1. You'd think that a geek site like /. would have more analyticaly minded people who would consider "shoplifting leads to tighter security" before assuming "racial profiling leads to tighter security".

--
Redundancy is good And also good.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by raelimperialaerosolk · 2005-12-05 06:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

To quote the late Hunter S. Thompson:

In a closed society where everyone is guilty, the only crime is getting caught.
In a world of thieves, the ultimate final sin is stupidity.

--
A good friend will help you move. A really good friend will help you move a body.
Re:The crime is in getting caught... by melikamp · 2005-12-05 16:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you suppose that you may find yourself one day in a situation where you (1) steal $1000 in parts and service and then (2) murder a guy who tries to detain you without hurting you in any significant way, I'd say that your lifestyle is quite extraordinary. I would be surprised that you are still free. I am sure that if you were in the customer's place, you would do exactly what he did: pay, and drive away in your new pimp car, as opposed to a boring police cruiser.
In defence of the manager I must say: I think that his action was appropriate in that situation. I will be first to agree: when some dumb fuck at the door is blocking your way without a probable cause, he deserves to be punched. First of all, because they are ALL instructed, countless times, that they are NOT to prevent customers from exiting. It is illegal, against the store policy, and just plain rude. If, on the other hand, one actually sees with his own eyes that a customer is about to drive away with $1000 worth of goodies (by that robbing everyone in the department), one is perfetly justified to conduct a citizen's arrest -- a perfectly legal procedure, the same one that store detectives are employing. The same one that you could employ if you caught a thief in your house: you have a right to detain that person without using lethal force, and a responsibility to notify the police.

Class 5 felony by QuietLagoon · 2005-12-04 13:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

The 19-year-old is facing three counts of being naughty - one of them a Class 5 felony.

Ouch, ... that's gonna leave a mark...

Re:Class 5 felony by vishbar · 2005-12-04 13:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

From TFA:
He faces a felony count of forgery and two misdemeanor counts of theft.

I find it interesting that forgery was the charge that carries the greatest clout. Looks like he would have been better off if he just stuck the iPod under his jacket. It almost seems like he's being punished more for subverting the store's security system than for the actual theft of the property. Is it normal to charge a bar-code switcher with forgery? In the lego case it seems as if he was charged with theft rather than forgery.

Either way, you're right...he's going to have a tough time finding a job after college with this on his record...

--
Ride the skies
Re:Class 5 felony by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 14:01 · Score: 3, Informative

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony has a good definition of a felony.

A Class 5 is pretty much low-end stuff, few years in jail, a fine and the ruin of your reputation. (Good luck getting a high paying job)
Re:Class 5 felony by alienw · 2005-12-04 14:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Well, it would be kind of hard to walk out the store with an iPod under his jacket, wouldn't it now? Hence the forgery charge. If you just try to steal something, you'll probably get caught, so the punishment is not too severe. More sophisticated schemes merit more significant charges.
Re:Class 5 felony by magarity · 2005-12-04 14:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ouch, ... that's gonna leave a mark

Well, are we supposed to have much sympathy for him? He is a thief after all. And he doesn't help his own case by being such a whiner:

"Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I am extremely sad now, and I just want to go to bed," he wrote. "Please let me sleep in my own bed tonight."

Waaaa. Sounds like a spoiled kid who was never told "no" by Mom and Dad.
Re:Class 5 felony by CastrTroy · 2005-12-04 14:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

I saw a young girl getting a speaking to by a local transit cop about her fake transit pass. Apparently that can be counted as forgery too. He just fined her under local bylaws, which ends up being a pretty hefty fine, way more than hte bus pass. Anyway, not sure if he was just trying to scare her, or whether he was telling the truth, But I think forgery of almost anything can be counted as forgery. Anyway, it probably wasn't worth their time to go through a whole trial and all. She looked plenty scared enough just getting the fine.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Class 5 felony by Bellum+Aeternus · 2005-12-04 14:42 · Score: 3, Funny

Ouch, ... that's gonna leave a mark...
This aint Singapore you know? ^_^

--
- I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
Re:Class 5 felony by jamesh · 2005-12-04 15:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

I think the idea is that theft can just be opportunistic, you see something there and decide to put it under your coat. It's also harder to enforce in a lot of cases, and sometimes the motive can be hunger or mental illness (okay not really a motive but you see what i'm getting at).

Forgery though almost always implies premeditation. You can't just say "It was a spur of the moment thing, I don't know why I did it and i am truly sorry". The only expression of regret you can really give in a case of forgery is "i'm sorry i got caught", which doesn't go down really well with the judge.
Re:Class 5 felony by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 15:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

Real men go bowhunting. Only limp wristed queers consider going out and blasting away their quote-unquote dinner. That takes absolutely no skill on the part of the hunter and removes much of the sport. Sure, any fat slob can sit around in camos chugging PBRs and pissing in the emtpies until a buck comes along.

If you want to be an active and vital participant in the cycle of life and death take up bowhunting. Learn how to stalk your prey. Get to know the fine art of the kill rather than relying entirely upon simple hydrostatic shock to disable the animal so you can clomp up and blow their brains out.
Re:Class 5 felony by AK+Marc · 2005-12-04 18:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

That and you could just run, no body is supposed to chase you under any circumstances, at least at Target.

Yup. You can't go back to that store, but if you just take it, don't look so nervous they stack the exit with security, just grab it, walk to the checkout, right past, and out the door. The beeper will go off, but I've never seen anyone go after someone that has left a store, even though I've seen the alarms go off a bunch of times. On more than one occassion I've made it out with tagged merchandise. One, the sales clerk realized she didn't get the tag off, the alarm was not very loud, and no one stopped us as we walked out with a tagged shirt. I got home, saw the tag, and went back. She remembered and was expecting us to come back to get it taken care of. But the alarm did nothing other than let them know something that shouldn't has already left the store.

--
Learn to love Alaska
Re:Class 5 felony by Tim+C · 2005-12-04 19:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Not only that, but just grabbing the iPod and walking out could well just be a spur of the moment thing. Forgery requires preparation, planning, etc. In general, the law is more forgiving of spontaneity - even for murder, if you (say) catch your partner in bed with someone and kill one/both of them, you'll generally get a lesser sentence than if you leave it, then hire a contract killer or lure them away somewhere secluded, etc.

--
It's official. Most of you are morons.

Salt & Vinegar iPod by JonathanR · 2005-12-04 13:32 · Score: 5, Funny

It's a bit obvious when the iPod you are about to buy rings up as a packet of Salt'n'Vinegar Crisps

What's wrong with people? by Skadet · 2005-12-04 13:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Personally, I would have gone for a less blatant discount, or refrained from visiting the same store so soon afterwards.

Personally, I would have been honest.

--
Sony ha

Re:What's wrong with people? by xs650 · 2005-12-04 13:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

That wouldn't occur to some people.
Re:What's wrong with people? by lysergic.acid · 2005-12-04 14:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

I dunno, I wouldn't feel too bad about stealing from a large Walmart-esque corporation. If the CEO's can't be expected to be ethical/honest then neither should the customers, whom are typically much less well-off.
Re:What's wrong with people? by Jeremi · 2005-12-04 15:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, and then you end up paying hundreds of pounds more than you had to. Well done Einstein!

You may have noticed from the article that the perpetrator got caught -- something that will happen to almost everyone who habitually engages in criminal behaviour, sooner or later. In this case, the whole escapade will probably end up costing the guy thousands of pounds over the course of his life time, because his reputation is ruined and he will have a much harder time getting a decent job. So he's actually going to pay "thousands of pounds more than he would have had to", all for an iPod that he doesn't even get to keep. I think Einstein could have figured that out in advance.

Why is it that naive, idealistic comments get modded up, but harsh realistic comments get modded down?

Stupid comments get modded down. Being "harsh" and (allegedly) "realistic" does not guarantee that a comment is not also stupid.

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.

similar story by jollyroger1210 · 2005-12-04 13:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

A few weeks ago someone screwed up at a gas station and the Premium gas was $.239 instead of $2.39. This was an attendants fault.

--
Purple, because ice cream has no bones.

Re:similar story by meowsqueak · 2005-12-04 14:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

The price was obviously wrong ($0.14 rather than $1.40 or somesuch) and some people had obviously come back several times in the space of a few hours to take advantage of the mistake, which is illegal. I just located the story on www.nzherald.co.nz - unfortunately, to view the story requires a paid subscription :(

Ah, here's the story on a very unlikely site. There was a follow up a few days later outlining Police action but I can't find that archived anywhere.

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_ id=29&art_id=qw1131010201202B252

November 03 2005 at 04:22AM

Wellington - A New Zealand oil company appealed on Thursday to 50 motorists who bought petrol at a give-away price after a worker put a decimal point in the wrong place on a self-service pump to come forward and pay the full amount.

The Challenge service station at Riwaka, near the South Island city of Nelson, sold petrol at 14,9 New Zealand cents (about 70 cents) a litre for two days in October when an employee set the wrong price on an automatic dispenser which took electronic payment cards.

Challenge placed an advertisement in the Nelson Evening Mail on Thursday asking drivers who benefited to come forward and pay the additional NZ$1,34 a litre they should have paid.

"We're upset, really," the station's owner Jeff Roger told the paper.

'We're upset, really'
"Some people have got the fuel and just come back several times knowing the machine is wrong."

He said drivers had until Saturday to pay up before their electronic account details were given to the police, who said they could face theft charges because they knew they could not legally fill their tanks for about NZ$7. - Sapa-dpa
Re:similar story by alienw · 2005-12-04 14:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

Uh, dude, if someone is selling gas for 10 cents a gallon, you KNOW the price is wrong. That's the issue here. So, if an ATM suddenly decides to spit out money, it's OK to just grab a bunch of it? Taking something that's not yours is theft -- period. Not much difference whether you counterfeit the UPC or the machine screws up. If you know the price is definitely wrong, you are basically stealing.

Some people are just plain stupid by the_humeister · 2005-12-04 13:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

$4.99 for a $150 Ipod? And why didn't the cashier notice? Of course, he tries to do it again, but the article doesn't say if it's the same Target. If it is, what a moron. Go to a different store (if you're so ethically declined).

Re:Some people are just plain stupid by PlayfullyClever · 2005-12-04 13:46 · Score: 3, Interesting

Perhaps you've never worked at such a fine retail establishment as Target, but as someone who has I will tell you that the cashier was most likely not stupid, he just simply didn't care. He doesn't get a bonus for catching theives like the guy with the $4.99 iPod, and after ringing up thousands for purchases for hours on end, day after day, he probably just got tired and didn't really notice the iPod ringing up cheap. Personally I never paid attention to what items were being purchased or what the computer said they cost. I just ran them over the scanner and gave change like the cash register told me to.

That being said, if this guy had any brains, he would have gone to a different store. At the end of the day, inventory gets taken and if items sold don't match up to cash in registers, there's a problem. His scheme could have (not definately, but there is a chance) been discovered, and then it would have been a simple matter of looking at the security tapes and seeing who the offender is. We had a similar incidence like this at our store when a woman rode a $500 bike out of the store while the security guard was one lunch brake (yeah, great security practices there huh?). We pulled the tapes and saw who it was, and sure enough, the same woman comes in a week later trying to shoplift stuff by putting it in her backpack. She was arrested in short order and we got the bike back soon enough too.

Just goes to show people don't become criminals because they're smart.

--
Check out my website: Playfully Clever
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by dzarn · 2005-12-04 13:53 · Score: 5, Informative

Yep, it was the same store. I live in Boulder, and we only have one Target. I'm tempted to swing by his dorm and ask him if he's always been this stupid, or was born that way....
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by v1 · 2005-12-04 14:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

At the end of the day, inventory gets taken and if items sold don't match up to cash in registers, there's a problem. His scheme could have (not definately, but there is a chance) been discovered, and then it would have been a simple matter of looking at the security tapes and seeing who the offender is.

Working at a small retail shop, I'd have to disagree with that. Even being a small store with a small showroom, we do not do inventory more than once every 2 weeks - usually once a month. I can't imagine a large department store doing inventory any more than once a week, probably pulling inventory on like a few isles per evening. Inventory descrepencies of single missing items can go undiscovered for days or weeks. Week-old security tapes are not very helpful if the thief has an IQ above room temperature and doesn't make a daily habit of filching at the same store.

There's no good excuse for the cashiers. They deal with those products day in and day out. Particularly for stores like Target and K-Mart, many customers come in for only a handful of items, or a single item. Checkers with any experience should know that ringing up a basket of items that includes an iPod, totaling under $100 means something is wrong. I could see if the thief shaved say 10 or 20% off the price it could slip by most of the time, but cutting 95% off the price should ring a bell somewhere. If an employee cares that little for the benefit of the business that cuts their paycheck each week, they do not deserve to keep their job after letting something like that slip by. Letting something like a $4.99 iPod slip by indicates either indifference or gross neglegence, neither of which you want on your staff.

--
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by ring-eldest · 2005-12-04 14:36 · Score: 2, Informative

At the end of the day, inventory gets taken and if items sold don't match up to cash in registers, there's a problem.

If you really had worked at Target, you would know they do an inventory once a year at the retail stores. There is no daily inventory of any sort, just sales reports and estimates. Only if someone noticed and later reported it would the tapes be of any use. (and the single security guy looking at a dozen video screens can't see everything)

A system that you describe (daily inventory) won't even be humanly possible until the items contain RFID chips. It can take up to 10 or so hours to do a store inventory now, and that doesn't even include the weeks of behind the scenes prep time. Dozens of people are involved, and the whole thing happens overnight.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by rm69990 · 2005-12-04 14:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

Have you ever spent a day as a cashier? Trust me, when your boss says "You have to scan so many items per minute", you don't give a flying fuck what price something comes up as (most don't even take the time to look at the screen). All you care about is getting however many items over the till per minute. And when you have some cashiers doing over 100 items a minute(yes, it is possible), they don't scan *check screen*, scan *check screen*, they scan scan scan scan without looking.

Then, take into account that these cashiers do the same thing, over and over again, endlessly. Can you honestly say that after a career where you have scanned millions of items, you still check the price on each and every one?

But of course, it is just so easy to criticize without putting yourselves in someone else's shoes, isn't it?
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by dzarn · 2005-12-04 15:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Uhhh...what? First, I didn't criticize the cashier, at all. I've actually done a stint at WalMart, and I know exactly what you mean - had someone rung up a TV for $10, I probably wouldn't have cared.

I'm just saying the guy who stole the iPod was stupid. Both for going back to the store, and for making such a huge switch. Had he gotten a $250 Nano for $150, no one would've noticed. Or if he'd put it in with a few items. But one item? The guy is a moron.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by Shihar · 2005-12-04 15:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you are some high school kid who is going off to college and are just there for the money, I can understand not giving a shit. If you are going to work there for a while, not giving a shit is just stupid. My best friend ended up getting a job at Filenes. She had no experience in retail to begin with, but she is a very smart girl. Within three months she was the rep for two clothing lines and had a huge allowance on their clothing, plus discounts. Six months later she was at a training conference for one of her clothing lines that she sold and she was offered a job while there. She passed by dozens of other people who had been working there for years on her way up. Given another year or two and I wouldn't be surprised to find her as a higher level representative of the company.

Any well run corporations tends to be very efficient at separating out the mediocre from the exceptional. They pick out the people that are going to be swiping groceries from those who are going to be managers and corporate reps very quickly. Doing something as brain dead as selling an iPod from 5 dollars is a pretty solid way to rightfully convince the company that you are an easily replaced peon.

If you are a foreign immigrant who has a trouble with the language or are just naturally dull, you have my utmost sympathy working for a meat grinder like Target for shit pay and shit benefits for the rest of your life. If you are a reasonable smart person who is just a lazy slacker and never bothers trying to move up, I don't think you are in any position to complain about your shit pay.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by vloktboky · 2005-12-04 15:40 · Score: 5, Informative

If you do or did work for Target, then you should also know that those IPods are kept under key lock and are handled by whomever is working in the Electronics Department from the moment they are taken out of the lock case to the moment for which they are paid. I held the position of Electronics Specialist at a local Target store; I would be quite furious if someone from my team would let an IPod leave the store at $4.99.

Quite frankly, I am baffled as to how this person could have managed to place a fake barcode on the IPod itself. For starters, the barcode on the IPod is a very slim one burried beside two other barcodes - the serial and one other one which I can't remember. When an IPod is taken out of the lock cases, they are either paid for at the department's registers or they are taken up to the front lanes and placed in a special location. The cashiers, or at the very least, the GSTL should have kept an eye on this IPod and whatever was left up there. The only way I can imagine this could be done is if the person asked for the IPod to be taken up front, managed to grab it without anyone noticing, placed the fake barcode on the device, then put it back and went to stand in one of the lane's lines to have the unfortunate cashier grab it and ring it up. But at this time of the year, my old store (and myself) would have made it a rule by now not to bring any locked merchandise up to the checklanes and force the guests to pay for it back in the department or hold on to it in a locked drawer by our "boat" or desk area where the registers are kept until the guest was ready to pay for it. There should have been no way for this person to place a fake barcode on the IPod without a Target Team Member noticing, let alone have it ring up at such a price and not fool the Team Member.

I'm also having a hard time trying to understand how the fake barcode was even detected by the systems. Target uses the DCPIs of the item, a 9 digit department-class-item relationship that looks like xxx-xx-xxxx. They don't use the UPCs; they match them to the DCPIs. All of these are kept in a system database; if you enter one that isn't on that database, it comes up on the registers saying "Item not on file." So he had to have used one that matched up with an existing DCPI at $4.99 which means the item description and even the department/class number should have been totally different from what the standard IPod's barcode comes up with.

I believe whatever Target store this was, their STL, ETL-AP, ETL-HL, and Electonics Team Lead should all be questioned about their neglegance, not just the person who rang it up at that price with a fake barcode and let them get away with it.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by Manchot · 2005-12-04 15:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

When I was in high school two years ago, I worked as a cashier at an urban Target. As you can imagine, it had a fairly high shoplifiting rate, and people tried to pull scams like these all the time. Typically, it would manifest itself as someone taking a bar code from something like a potted plant (which had sticker barcodes) and sticking it over the real one. From the first time that I first noticed this a couple weeks after I started, to a year and a half later when I left for college, I probably saved the company about $3000 through catching this fraud alone. The trick was to glance at the display for all items that looked expensive to me. However, aside from the pat on the back and the free $10 DVD that I got after saving the store $300 in one transaction, I never saw a dime of that. (Actually, that $300 one was really clever: he managed to graft a couple of those souped-up Playstations with the label of a regular, old Playstation, so that come transaction time, the computer still said "Playstation.") Granted, assets protection (i.e., the security team) loved me, and it probably didn't hurt me come review/raise time. I never even had the satisfaction of seeing any of those people get arrested, because once they noticed that the jig was up, they found an excuse to leave as quickly as they could. (Also, Target had a policy of not arresting until they had definitive proof of shoplifting, i.e., camera footage. In this case, they'd have to trace back the person's motion through the cameras to when the label was fraudulently placed, a fairly time consuming process. Otherwise, they could get sued.)
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by flosofl · 2005-12-04 16:08 · Score: 2, Insightful

At the end of the day, not only do they check that money in register equals total of prices, but they also look to see which items were sold below the ticket price. That makes no sense. Everything *would* match up. The barcode does not change the price of an item. It identifies the item. The computer then matches the item with a price. He didn't use a "made-up" barcode, he used one that was legitimate for a pair of cheap headphones (IIRC $4.99). The computer wouldn't record the sale of an iPod, it would record the sale of the "4.99 headphones" - what the bar code said it was. Since he paid $4.99 it would match what the computer expected. The accounting only matches what was scanned with how much money is in drawer.

--
"This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by mrchaotica · 2005-12-04 17:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

You know, all of us Slashdotters would notice a problem if we saw an iPod ring up for $5. HOWEVER, would you notice if, say, some jewelry or makeup or medicine rang up for a similarly low price? I probably wouldn't! Similarly, there's a lot of non-geeks who probably wouldn't notice anything wrong about the iPod.

--
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by Matthaeus · 2005-12-04 18:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Used to work at Target on the logistics team. Inventory is done once a year. That's it. And when that report comes in, everyone is sat down and told to pay more attention 'cause we lose the equivalent of a TV a week from the electronics department alone.

So we paid attention for a month and went back to doing our work. It's possible to steal from a big box store and not have it noticed for a long time.
Re:Some people are just plain stupid by ifoxtrot · 2005-12-04 21:29 · Score: 3, Informative

Firstly I should correct you in that he never stole an iPod - he stole a iPod DJ System and a iPod Speaker System. It may well be that these products are freely available on shelves. You are, however, correct in your assumption the he used cheaper yet valid barcodes. This link prints the police statement for the arrest.

Essentially the first time he commited the crime he bought a DJ System by using the barcode from a CD player (which he had scouted out previously). The second time he tried (and was caught) he replaced the barcode for an Altec Lansing iPod speaker system with a barcode for earphones. He got caught because he was recognised by the security firm following the first incident.

Stupid Criminals by Mecdemort · 2005-12-04 13:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

You think they would have learned from the lego guys getting caught:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/28/043620 6&tid=159&tid=133&tid=1

From the article: by dirtsurfer · 2005-12-04 13:35 · Score: 5, Funny

"I will NEVER EVER DO THIS EVER AGAIN and I am once more terribly sorry," Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I did this not knowing of the serious penalty that lies behind it. Please! Please! Please!"

Oh. Well, in that case, off you go.

Re:From the article: by Skater · 2005-12-04 13:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

I was going to comment on that, too. Sounds to me like he knew exactly what he was doing and had those lines rehearsed and ready. How does that Shakespeare line go? "Methinks he doth protest too much"?

Somewhat related: this isn't a new idea, of course. The bar codes make it a little harder, but I'm sure people have been swapping price stickers on items for as long as they've existed. I used to work in retail, and we once had a customer demand that we sell him something valued at $159 but marked with a $69.99 sticker (he'd taken it off something else).
Re:From the article: by linguae · 2005-12-04 14:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

For a minute, I thought that comment was a joke, until I actually RTFA'd....

Wow. I'd expect this comment from a five year old, but not a 19 year old. Should he know the difference between right and wrong by now?

Oh well, for him. Have fun with Bubba!
Re:From the article: by mkhan8037 · 2005-12-04 14:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

I used to work at a department store and caught many people trying to buy items with switched barcodes. Having worked there a while, I could usually spot an incorrect price, however around christmas time there were tons of new employees at the checkout and I'm sure people got away with it all the time. We found peeled off barcodes and empty packaging everyday.
Re:From the article: by idobi · 2005-12-04 17:04 · Score: 5, Informative

See the actual police report and his statement @ http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1202052boy1.h tml

The answer lies elsewhere on Slashdot by Reaperducer · 2005-12-04 13:35 · Score: 4, Funny

You'd think that in the intervening months, other companies would guard against such shenanigans

They're working on it. It's called RFID. Soon only people with tinfoil hats will be able to shoplift.

--
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."

Nice attitude, submitter by Have+Blue · 2005-12-04 13:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

What happened to "Personally, I would have not considered committing fraud in the first place"?

Re:Haha hilarious by fiddlesticks · 2005-12-04 13:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

why are slashdotters so obsessed with prison rape?

--
http://milkshake.dexy.org

Out in the real world... by YrWrstNtmr · 2005-12-04 13:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

Busted, Baldino begged for a little yuletide forgiveness.
"I will NEVER EVER DO THIS EVER AGAIN and I am once more terribly sorry," Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I did this not knowing of the serious penalty that lies behind it. Please! Please! Please!"

Hey, kid...out in the real world, there are real world consequences. Your mom is not there to pick up the pieces.

Playing the ignorance card by Scruffeh · 2005-12-04 13:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

The most laughable thing has got to be that the kid is pleading ignorance to the severity of his actions. Anyone with half a brain is going to realise that undercutting retailers by 100s of dollers is blatently stealing. To be honest though, I guess you have to be pretty daft to keep going back to the same place. 'I'm just a kid', give over, you're 19 son, grow up and accept your punishment!

Re:Haha hilarious by toddbu · 2005-12-04 13:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think that he should be happy he didn't get caught in Singapore. I understand that their caning punishment isn't very pleasant.

--
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.

The real thieves... by dada21 · 2005-12-04 13:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

...are usually the employees.

I knew a kid who worked at a Best Buy with a bunch of his friends. They all were caught months later running a register scam. They'd ring up a friend who bought maybe 6 CDs, a VCR and a TV. They'd "forget" to scan the TV, and the friend would roll right out with the helper employee (another scammer) and put the TV in a car. They did this for months and finally got caught.

Another scammer I met (who didn't do jail time) used to be in charge of returns. He would check returns for completeness, put it back together, reshrink wrap the item and stick it back on the floor. Oh, he also threw other expensive items in the box. His friend would come, buy the $19.99 big box radio, and walk out with hundreds of items. Since the item was shrink wrapped, no one caught on for months.

I thought of the barcode scan YEARS ago when I found a barcode scanner at a garage sale. This is pre-USB days. I messed with barcodes for weeks, and figured one could print barcodes onto a label and stick it on a box. I never did it (even though I am an anarchocapitalist and anti-government/anti-mercantilism, I would never steal), but I can't believe it took this long for stores to see the problem.

The solution is one-time use barcodes. It isn't as bad as you'd think for the big box stores. When a skid is received, it has two barcodes on the packing list: first code, last code. The employee scans both (say 1111183.17 and 1111183.234) and the system registers all the item codes and the unique codes. If the register scans a duplicate, there's a problem.

The other solution is already in place in Home Depot and grocery stores -- the self checkout. You can't buy an item without weighing it. I believe Best Buy and Circuit City are already starting to work on incorporating scale barcode scanners that weigh the item when they scan it.

I've considered starting a security company for ma-and-pa stores to battle these forms of theft. There are many ways a store can protect itself, but the best way is to have intelligent staff who aren't helping the thieves. Good luck there.

Re:The real thieves... by alienw · 2005-12-04 13:52 · Score: 2, Informative

You can't buy an item without weighing it.

Unless you hit "Skip Bagging", that is. Which I always do for _all_ the items because the scales are very screwy. Nobody seems to care. Of course, there is usually a cashier who sees everything you are buying anyway.
Re:The real thieves... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2005-12-04 14:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think the self checkouts cause more problems than they solve. Some of the ones I've used were horribly slow, some were misaligned such that the bar code would only read at a specific height *above* the glass. Some were simply erratic or otherwise failure prone.

On average, the systems were twice to four times as slow as using a cashier and still required one or two people watching four machines, nullifying the cost, time and labor savings. Or I could choose the *one* open cash register that has a long line, though that one line seemed to be moving about as many customers and items as four of the self-checout units. No thanks. I tend to avoid Home Depot because of those pieces of trash. Thankfully, my local Lowe's haven't installed them.
Re:The real thieves... by moosesocks · 2005-12-04 14:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Agreed!

My *deli* has unique UPC codes on each sandwich it sells. It's not that hard to implement if you've got the drive to do it. The system easily pays for itself in the increased efficency of the store, and probably helps reduce theft -- you can't pick up your sandiwch until you've paid.

You place your order on a touchscreen kiosk, get a receipt with the UPC printed on it, shop around for your other items, check out and pay, get the receipt stamped PAID, and then pick up your sandwich.

--
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Re:The real thieves... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 14:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's nothing for an inside job. I knew friends of some friends that worked the dock at Best Buy or similar store. Basically they had a camera watching the dock but they could point it away and they hooked up with some of the drivers that made deliveries to that store regularly. They'd unload merchandise out of the truck and straight in to the trunks of cars, with the drivers helping. After a while they found that one of the openings where the trucks pull up couldn't be seen by the camera so they'd just have "their drivers" pull up there and unload goods. These guys also went to CU where this target thief goes.. I wonder about that.

They had some protocols too, they'd only take things that came in quantity. If there was a high dollar item that the store might only have 2 of then they wouldn't take it. On the other hand, they'd get deliveries of 50 sony laptops or 50 30" TVs and the BestBuy's are so screwed up with their inventory system as it is. They'd take one or 2 and then send one or 2 back like it was broken. The records would be all screwed up. This went on for like 2 years that I know of and I'm not sure they ever got caught. From what I could gather, the company was moving so much stuff, in a really fast and loose way that it might be 6 months before they'd see a couple TVs missing. This was right around the time bestbuys started opening up in Colorado and it was common for them to completely sell out of a lot of popular items, especially during the holiday season.

I remember they were offering to sell me a home entertainment center, full surround sound, stereo, TV, VCR (again, this was about 12 years ago) the works for $150 it was probably like $3000 in goods; "just show up at this time and we'll load it in to your car." I ultimately turned them down but as a penny-less student at the end of my college years I did consider it. I'm glad I didn't do it, in retrospect.
Re:The real thieves... by DavidTC · 2005-12-04 15:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's a classic scam. It happened at a Walmart near the one I worked at a few years ago. Some high school kid started 'selling' some sort of game console, I think it was a Gamecube. He'd collect 50 bucks from other kids at school, and then tell them when he was working. They were to get the gamecube, put a piece of tape over the barcode, and at least 10 other items or something.
He actually had it down to a science, but failed to consider that Walmart notices when people start 'shoplifting' two to three large boxes a week that obviously couldn't be snuck out of the store under a coat, especially one with such a high-turnover rate. At first, they thought that people were stealing them from stock, so checked they were actually getting out on the floor, which they were. Then they just had people stand around electronics and follow people who picked up Gamecubes to the checkout. (This example was mentioned during training which is why I know about it.)
However, picking the TV and the game conses were pretty stupid. Although the TV, at least, has plausibly denability if it stays in the cart. Running things over the scanner and failing to notice when it didn't beep is harder to explain, considering that's like 90% of a cashier's job. (I say that as a cashier.;))
If you actually want to do something like that, the trick is to pick something small that looks like a lot of other things. For example, a game in a bunch of other games. It's almost impossible to detect. (And feel free to return all the other games, unopened, the next day, to steal them later.)
However, the shrinkwrap thing is genius. I've actually heard stories about people trying to reseal (or just seal in the first place) things, but obviously that works a great better when you operate a sealing machine. And, assuming the Besy Buy return counter works like Walmart's, people behind it say 'This is good' and stick it in a cart to get put back on the floor by other employees, so no one would could ever notice when items didn't get there.
Yeah, I'm cynical about this, because I don't give a damn about big retail and how much people steal from them. Like I said, I used to work for Walmart, where I was incidentally, required to put in a full 40 hour week for Christmas despite being part-time. I don't steal from them, but you people feel free.
If you don't want to 'steal' from them, do what I do...I use Walmart as an ATM. I purchase items that cost like 60 cents, and then get cash back, which costs them like $1.50 from my bank. And I get a candy bar out of it.
Once, when I needed 40 dollars and was really bored, I went around twice. ;)

--
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Re:The real thieves... by Neoprofin · 2005-12-04 15:19 · Score: 2, Interesting

Generally the wages employees are paid are based on competitive wages for that area, so as much as I hate Wal-Mart I must disagree with the misconception that all of their workers are getting screwed hard. When I worked at Target working in a metropolitan area I made far more than the minimum wage, and more than my aunt who started working in a small town, but it was still only average compared to everything else.
Re:The real thieves... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 15:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

"They'd "forget" to scan the TV, and the friend would roll right out with the helper employee (another scammer) and put the TV in a car."

My sis manages a large department store as she is the capitalist of the family.

Every few months, she use to come to me asking if I could burn some videotape to DVD or print out stills. The funniest one was where one of the employees rang up $30 for 3 cart loads of clothing...they kept coming and coming and coming and the assistant manager actually helped the thieves out the door. Both the cashier and the thieves are all in jail now.

At least half the cameras are pointed at the cashiers (and there are a LOT more cameras than either the staff or the customers know).

The newest thing the sis has is that she upgraded the cameras to a computerized system...all the 'tapes' are synched. Its a closed system that is encrypted and will verify the checksums for when you burn out to CDRom...the CDROM is pretty cool even though it outputs a Windows app...you choose what views you want and can switch while watching. Its hooked into the cash registers and one of the views is a virtual register screen...once she had this hooked up, within two months, her staff was asked to show up for a store meeting and a quarter of the staff was arrested, another half let go and the rest were given bonuses for being honest.

I realize now I probably have to post this anonymously (seems as though I've responded to a few of your posts this way)...the sister ended up *HAVING* to take another job in another city (same company) after even the police said they couldn't protect her if she stayed at this location. Most of the theft was gang related.

In her new location, she hangs out in the background a little more managing a few locations -- and in the last two years, her stores have a third of the shrinkage they had the previous years...pretty significant numbers (she estimates the security revamps have cost her over a million in less than a dozen stores, but have saved more than that in its first year).

All in all, stores KNOW that its almost always an inside job. But if they don't tak action against the lesser shoplifters (and do so in extremes) they will attract a clientel that will eventually want to work there...and continue to steal. Basic sociology...

"i just want to go to bed" by chicagotypewriter · 2005-12-04 13:45 · Score: 4, Funny

In a follow-up statement to police, he wrote: "I am extremely sad now, and I just want to go to bed," he wrote. "Please let me sleep in my own bed tonight."

Well if you put it that way, sure, hop right out of jail and into your comfy bed.

Not as smart as they think... by kefoo · 2005-12-04 13:47 · Score: 5, Funny

This reminds me of my days as a pizza restaurant shift manager. A customer who thought he was brilliant cut out one of our logos from an ad and taped it onto a competitor's coupon. The delivery driver didn't recognize the coupon, and when he saw the tape he peeled it off in front of the customer who, of course, pleaded ignorance.

now im tempted by coolraul · 2005-12-04 13:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

to make my barcode with something that would ring up $100,000, just for kicks

Re:cause property theft is kewl! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 13:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

Chilldafuckout. Geeks (in the Jon Katz sense) can't resist an optimization problem. It's not an ethical issue... just another abstraction in a life that's probably filled with abstractions. Just because I think, Suppose I were an iPod thief... what's the best way for me to balance the risk/reward equation? doesn't mean I don't respect property rights, or that I'm even remotely likely to steal anything in the real world.

Re:Haha hilarious by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 13:48 · Score: 2, Funny

It's the only means by which they can envision getting any. /predictable

Apple are too expensive! by skingers6894 · 2005-12-04 13:50 · Score: 4, Funny

I can get an iRiver for $4.75 and it does OGG as well!

Dear Slashdot by Comatose51 · 2005-12-04 13:51 · Score: 5, Funny

Dear Slashdot readers,

We at Target would like to thank all of you for publicize this story, but more importantly helping us stop these scams by turning Barcode Magic's web server into a pile molten metal. As you are all surely aware, a site that allows users to print up barcodes is up to no good and deserve to be "Slashdotted", to use the common parlance of our times. We thank you for your vigilante justice. Consider it as a service to all the shoppers at Target. The prevention of future scams will result in savings passed onto the our shoppers, and not into the pocket of our executives.

Sincerely, Target "Walmart, without all the Lower Class"

--
EvilCON - Made Famous by /.

Anyone else read the article as a how-to? by ubergrits · 2005-12-04 13:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

TFA reads basically as a step-by-step guide to teach any-and-everyone how to (at least attempt to) pull off a similar barcode scam. From the googling for the name of the barcode software, to outlining his method for affixing the faux-UPCs to the box and then looking for relatively ignorant checkout cashiers to use...this article explains it all. Hell, it even mentions that the 'Barcode Magic' software has a 15-day free trial. My quetions: (1) How in the hell is that relevant to the article? and (2) How many kiddies are now going to read this, download the software, and start perpetrating their own scams? Sheesh...

Re:Anyone else read the article as a how-to? by Thing+1 · 2005-12-04 15:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

TFA reads basically as a step-by-step guide [...]

I'm not sure that's a bad thing. For one, it might help convince retailers to improve their security setup so that this type of exploit is no longer valid. That would prevent a lot of loss; perhaps with more short-term expense than they would have liked.
Also, it's evolution in action: I think everything illegal should be posted on the web with instructions and links to suppliers (who may or may not be in collusion with the authorities!).
Then, when people start moving towards the dark side, at least they'd be easier to catch. (Like Santa's Little Helper, "If he runs away, he'll be easy to catch!")

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:Anyone else read the article as a how-to? by AeroIllini · 2005-12-04 15:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

TFA reads basically as a step-by-step guide to teach any-and-everyone how to (at least attempt to) pull off a similar barcode scam.

Yes, that's right. Because if there is even the slightest chance that information could be used in a manner that breaks a law, then it must be locked up in a deep dark hole somewhere so no one can ever find it or show it to--God forbid--the general public. The "public" will most certainly use the information as soon as possible to break every law they can think of.

Now if you'll excuse me, my printout of "Murder Methods" is ready.

--
For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.

Lord. by dswensen · 2005-12-04 13:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

"I will NEVER EVER DO THIS EVER AGAIN and I am once more terribly sorry," Baldino wrote in a statement for police. "Please let me go for I am terribly sorry!!! I'm only a kid! Help me out. I just want to go home. I did this not knowing of the serious penalty that lies behind it. Please! Please! Please!"

What a spoiled little punk. He didn't know stealing was against the law? He was old enough to come up with this scam and steal, and now suddenly he's just an innocent kid?

I say they give him the chair.

No, but seriously, the attitude of this kid sickens me. Do the crime, get ready to do the time. At 19, you're a little old to be whining like an adolescent.

Re:What's wrong with people? - Lack of Preschool by Skadet · 2005-12-04 13:54 · Score: 5, Informative

Personally, I can understand hypotheticals.

Apparently not. The submitter's statement was -- to paraphrase in order to highlight the hypothetical even more blatently:
Had I been in this kid's shoes, I would have committed the same crime in a different way which would have resulted in a higher probability of not getting caught.

I replied that had I been in his shoes, I would have not committed a crime at all -- an additional hypothetical.

There were a few hypotheticals in there, you missed at least one. Back to kindergarden for you!

--
Sony ha

Office Space by TubeSteak · 2005-12-04 13:57 · Score: 2, Funny

Office Space
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/

JUDGE
And now the sentence for these heinous crimes committed against Initech.

I hereby sentence you, Michael Bolton and Samir Na...Ananajibad...to a term of no less than four years in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison.

Peter Gibbons, you've lead a trite and meaningless life. And you're a very bad person.

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!

Old news... +ORC by purduephotog · 2005-12-04 13:58 · Score: 4, Informative

Way back in the beginning of the Internet (Yes, kiddies, there was such a time) a man known only as +ORC wrote about 'codebaring' as he called it. He also spoke about the supermarket enslavement as to why supermarkets force you to go both counterclockwise and why they put all sorts of greenery and colours right when you enter.

His name- +ORC. To this day no one knows who he was, but his faithful servant, +Fravia, kept his vigil for a number of years. When Anon.penet.fi went down he melted away.

http://www.totse.com/en/hack/magnetic_stripes_and_ other_data_formats/161810.html
http://www.woodmann.com/fravia/orc.htm

Re:Old news... +ORC by jedo · 2005-12-04 15:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Fravia is still around.
http://www.searchlore.org/
Re:Old news... +ORC by brendanoconnor · 2005-12-04 20:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

Of course the grocery store is setup in specific ways to get customers to buy more products. Enslavement of the grocery store? Are you kidding me? Most grocery stores do not make you walk counterclockwise at all. The only grocery store I can think that does this is Food for Less. Ralph's (Kruegers), Vons (Safeway), and Albertsons surely do not. I will agree that we have specific environments setup and we purposely try to make the shopping experience as calming as possible. Naturally we want you to stay longer to purchase more food.

Want a tip on good grocery shopping practices? Stay on the perimeter of the store the entire shopping trip and you will be able to get all the food you "need" and none of the stuff in the middle that cost a lot more.

Example, when you walk into most grocery stores, You can hug that left (or right) wall and you'll enter into produce, then on to Dairy, meat, maybe pass by floral (not necessary but always around the perimeter), and typically see a Bakery and Deli closer to the front. By going to all these spots you get almost everything you need.

Want to save money? Avoid the frozen food aisle. It has some of the highest markups on product, and most of it is very bad for you anyway. Just for shits and giggles, try this idea once. Stay on the perimeter and shop only in the departments. Then after your done, head to the middle for the few other items you may need such as some bake products, cereal and maybe some can goods (typically all within two aisles of each other as well).

A final note about codebaring, yes this is against the law and it is fruad. Everyone who partakes in this activity will only drive the cost of products upward, or the wages of the people working for the companies downward. If your stealing from any establishment you obviously care for no one and about nothing but yourself because your actions, no matter how small they seem, affect everyone else around you.

Open Source to the Rescue! by nmb3000 · 2005-12-04 13:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

It might not be quite as fancy, but there's a free and OSS PHP-based barcode maker called Barcode (which does work, and pretty well). I've used it in the past to steal^Wcreate barcodes for inventory at work.

Here's an implementation and here's the homepage for the program.

An interesting aside is that if you have an LCD monitor, you can actually scan the barcode off the screen (at least with an older Symbol RS232 scanner I had).

--
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)

My experiences at Fry's by Sigmund+Dali · 2005-12-04 14:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

I worked at Fry's, and was actually lucky enough to catch somebody doing this trick. I say lucky because, besides for other draconian security measures in place at Fry's is a $50 bonus for catching someone shoplifting ($300 if it was an employee). Anyway, these scams are particularly clever because it requires very little in the form of "suspicious behavior" from the customer. All they have to do is put the package in the cart with the barcode up and casually place the sticker on it. Furthermore, since you can pretty much generate whatever you want on that, it can be difficult for the cashier to notice it, because the product could ring up as an item very similiar. For instance, the trick goes to purchase an iPod case for $10 and then take home the barcode and fiddle with it until you make a sticker with the same info on it. It rings up to the cashier as "iPod" something, and it takes a rather observant cashier to notice this. Very clever, indeed.

The only reason I caught him was because I noticed he kept peeling something off of the box, which was suspicious. Apparently, he had f'ed up the first sticker's application, and it was crooked, a dead giveaway.

Re:My experiences at Fry's by ArsenneLupin · 2005-12-04 21:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

The only reason I caught him was because I noticed he kept peeling something off of the box, which was suspicious. Apparently, he had f'ed up the first sticker's application, and it was crooked, a dead giveaway.
A stoopid thief. A smarter one would just have quietly put the box back on the shelf (pretending to have made a mistake), bought a couple of unrelated cheap items, and walked... then try again a day later at a different store, being more careful with the sticker this time.
This would have the additional benefit of creating plausible deniability (just picture what happens if later on an innocent customer unwittingly picks up the box with the crooked barcode sticker...). After such episode, the shop would need to take the excuse "... but it wasn't me who put that sticker on..." more seriously.
Re:My experiences at Fry's by mike2R · 2005-12-05 00:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

While that is true, if you can stop stupid thieves then you've stopped 95% of the problem.

Smart people tend to find some other way of supporting themselves than petty theft - I've had some frighteningly stupid people try to rip me off.

--
This sig all sigs devours

Dumber than you think. by twitter · 2005-12-04 14:04 · Score: 4, Informative

A customer who thought he was brilliant cut out one of our logos from an ad and taped it onto a competitor's coupon. The delivery driver didn't recognize the coupon, and when he saw the tape he peeled it off in front of the customer who, of course, pleaded ignorance.

The customer might have been ignorant. There are dirt bags who sell "discount" coupons, much like gift checks to the unwary. It sounds like a good deal for everyone, except the vouchers are little more than coppies made with some image manipulation program. The scam is prevalent in college towns with foreign students.

Other pranks have been committed like this without a profit motive. There have been several cases of people making bogus coupons and emailing them as chain spam. Store clerks often take them without knowing any better.

The silly world of coupons, gift cards and other marketing ploys invites this kind of abuse. That's why they are a stupid idea to begin with. An honest price well advertised is a better deal.

--

Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

Re:Dumber than you think. by eyeball · 2005-12-04 14:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

Other pranks have been committed like this without a profit motive. There have been several cases of people making bogus coupons and emailing them as chain spam. Store clerks often take them without knowing any better.

Reminds me of a nonsense prank my wife did while driving across country. When she went though a town she'd go through a few parking lots and collect flyers from car windshields that were advertising local (non-chain) restaurants. She's save them and put them on cars a few states away.

I love her more and more each time I think of that story.

--

_______
2B1ASK1

Big fucking deal! by Seumas · 2005-12-04 14:05 · Score: 5, Funny

I don't see what the big deal is. A five year old could so this. In fact, as a five year old 23 years ago - I *DID* do this.

I wanted one toy really bad and knew my mom wouldn't buy it for me, so I switched the price (it wasn't a barcode back then, of course) and convinced my mom to get it for me. It caused so many troubles for the people at the cash register that they eventually gave up trying to figure out why the price and item didn't match each other and felt bad for taking up so much of our time with their screwups that they just GAVE it to me and let us walk out.

Being a little kid kicks so much ass because nobody ever suspects what a criminal little fuck you are.

Too easy to create barcodes by garylian · 2005-12-04 14:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Barcodes are fairly easy to create using just a PC and a decent quality laser printer.

If they took it to the extreme that you needed to have a certain font card (a nice DIMM or SIMM) to produce any barcode, it would slow folks down a whole lot. When you have to spend a hundred or two to get the font card, the price for entry will slow down the casual twit.

15 day free trial on that program. That part just cracks me up.

Re:People like him by QuietLagoon · 2005-12-04 14:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's people like him who ruin the system for the rest of us.

Lest there be any doubt, I agree with you completely.

It is idiots like him who give the likes of the RIAA their pull with Congress and other lawmakers.

You're right about not caring! by mariox19 · 2005-12-04 14:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

You're right about the clerk just not caring. And I'm sure you'll agree that it's Target's fault.

About eight years ago I was with a friend when she bought a $2,800 Macintosh from CompUSA for $1,400. Somehow, the computer running pricing had gotten misprogrammed, and as a result, all Macintosh models -- from the lowly entry-level desktop, to the top-of-the-line tower model -- were given the same sale price.

I was with my friend helping her pick out a computer. She was going to get the entry-level model, but on a whim asked how much the tower was selling for. When the clerk told us, I asked him to double check, because I knew that towers (at the time) started at $1,900. As we both bent down to check the SKU, I saw that this was the top-of-the-line model. He confirmed that it was selling for $1,300. I recommended to my friend that she purchase it.

If this were a mom and pop shop, I would have put a stop to the problem right then and there. But, you know what? I figured this is the cost of doing business the way these big shops do it. They hire kids, pay them peanuts, give them little or no training, and basically tell them, "Don't think! Just do what the computer tells you to do." If that's how you put together your sales force, then you'll have to eat these losses when they come along.

The sick thing is, the accountants at CompUSA probably had it all figured out -- staff compensation versus shrinkage -- and decided they'd make more money this way.

I'm not advocating stealing, but I shed no tears for these stores when their employees pay so little attention.

--

quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

Re:You're right about not caring! by the_humeister · 2005-12-04 15:21 · Score: 2, Funny

Nice slippery slope there... *clunk*
Re:You're right about not caring! by zorander · 2005-12-04 21:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

The salesperson quoted him a price and then the cashier honored it. I don't see a problem here? That's what salesman do. If a salesman mistakenly quotes a wrong price, that's between him and his employer. It doesn't matter if the customer knows that other stores are charging more for the same item, that's completely irrelevant.
Re:You're right about not caring! by 16K+Ram+Pack · 2005-12-04 22:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because phishing is an attempt to take something that is not yours by your own wilful actions, where this is just buying something at the price offered. The defence of staff who don't care or bad computers is no defence. You, the CEO are responsible for that.
A discussion about ethics, when talking about large stores is about the most batshit thing I've heard today. Do you have any idea how most of them treat their suppliers?

Re:That depends by carlislematthew · 2005-12-04 14:19 · Score: 2, Funny

My own personal favorite:

PEACE, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating between two periods of fighting.

Not at Target! by Fjornir · 2005-12-04 14:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

Personally, I would have gone for a less blatant discount, or refrained from visiting the same store so soon afterwards.

Personally I wouldn't try this at Target at all, mostly because I've seen how the Loss Prevention staff at Target work. My father worked for Target in Loss Prevention and as a company they take it very seriously. I got a chance to go into the security booth and see how it works at Target and... Wow. I went in and looked at all the monitors and said "That's a lot of cameras..." and the guy who was in there laughed and said, "no... This is a lot of cameras" -- and put the entire left-bank of monitors (the control room is rigged for two operators) on sequential scan.

Excepting the interiors of the dressing rooms and restrooms the whole store is pretty much perfectly covered. This was back in '94 when I was in there and my dad was showing me just how cool their shiz was. They had a system which would track a person through the store, switching the monitor from camera to camera to keep them covered. It wasn't perfect, you needed to get them so they were the only moving object in the frame and if they encountered a other people it would pop up the camera numbers for the areas they could go to from there around the borders of the screen. It was confusing to watch because as it shifted from camera to camera 'left' would become 'right' or 'up' but...

The cashiers are watched like -- every cashier has a camera on them, and every scan they make pops up the item number and price. When a card is swiped the card number pops up too. If the same card is used within a given period of time it automatically pops up onto the "suspicious activity" monitor.

The detail view on cashiers was really quite interesting - a series of bar graphs showed how high above/below the averages they were for credit vs cash , store credit vs external credit, dollar amount of sale, and several other indicators. My dad was telling me that because real shoplifting was relatively low cost compared to a clerk participating in a scam they put a lot more effort into finding the crooked clerks.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.

Re:I notice it happening more and more. by toddbu · 2005-12-04 14:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't know whether people are more broke or just more inclined to try it since cashiers just scan everything through absent-mindedly.

I don't know about record stores, but at most places I shop it seems that the cashiers know nothing about the products that they sell, so how would you expect them to know anything about the right price?

While we're talking about lack of product knowledge, let me say that I get kind of tired of asking for help at a store only to be told that I should read the box. I shop online more now because I can actually get the information I need about the product. I've also been known to stand in a store and call the 800 number on the box to ask the manufacturer questions. It's really quite sad.

--
If you don't want crime to pay, let the government run it.

Re:Normal Attitude by lysergic.acid · 2005-12-04 14:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's the spirit of Capitalism. God bless this country.

That's what happens by sjames · 2005-12-04 14:30 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't condone fraud by any means, but it's hardly surprising scams like this work (sorta). When you pay people peanuts and demand that they shut their brains off and be good little living robots, they're not likely to notice or care what comes up when they scan an item. In fact, a fair portion of them probably give a silent little cheer if they see the store get ripped off.

Re:That's what happens by arexu · 2005-12-04 16:38 · Score: 2, Interesting

Nah -- as a previously underpaid Big-box bookstore chain worker drone, it offended me to see scammers trying such obvious shit. Lame, lame lame, no pride in their work, most of these shoplifting/price swapping losers. And their whining when confronted -- weak. When it became 'tell me a story' time, they weren't any better than baldoni. Ripping off my store meant more work for me later come inventory time, so me and my fellow ex-military coworkers always advocated direct and violent action (which our managers, who had a greater appreciation of the legal system, always declined...).

--
I'd love to help you out -- which way did you come in?

Pop-Bottle Returns by detritus. · 2005-12-04 14:32 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm surprised nobody has attempted to rip off the automatic pop-bottle deposit machines (obviously you would have to live in a state that has pop bottle desposits/refunds to understand). The machines generate a reciept with the dollar/cent amount embedded right into the barcode. It would only take getting a thermal reciept printer, and printing up some reciepts random dollar amounts, and redeeming them for instant cash.

Re:Pop-Bottle Returns by mjphil · 2005-12-04 16:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

How about printing bar code stickers for non-returnable bottles? Solves two problems: recycles water/ice tea bottles, and puts a little more coin in my pocket.

Re:Haha hilarious by nametaken · 2005-12-04 14:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Amen.

You have to love this. You know the little prick was trying to pull tail by bragging about how brilliant he is (as if this hasn't been done for like twenty years). Now he cries like a bitch when he gets caught, and every chick he bragged to is laughing at him crying like a 13 year old girl with a skinned knee [sorry Kev].

Not so clever now, are yah bud! :D

Often it's not their place by Sycraft-fu · 2005-12-04 14:43 · Score: 3, Informative

Some stores have a pretty strict "honor the sticker price" policy. I'm not sure why, false advertising lawsuits maybe, but at any rate. Happened to my father at Sears once. He was buying a tool, a fairly expensive one, and it rang up for half the listed price. He told the clerk that was a mistake, but the clerk said didn't matter, you got the lowest price.

I don't know about Target, but maybe it's similar. They may tell cashiers to simply give items to a person for the price that's rung up to avoid problems.

Re:Often it's not their place by Deadstick · 2005-12-04 16:27 · Score: 3, Informative

Sears used to be famous for those errors, especially in the catalog department. I haven't shopped there in many years, but in the Seventies you had the option of buying items off the counters or ordering them from Catalog Sales, usually for a slightly lower price. You would go to a desk back by the loading dock, fill out an order and pay for it...and then you'd pick it up a week or so later.

The kicker was that since you paid in advance, you paid for what you ordered -- which might or might not be what you got. Orders were filled by warehousemen working from carbon copies of hand-scrawled forms, and it wasn't the least unusual to pay for a wrench and get a drill press...and if the error went the other way, you could always refuse it.

Something similar would happen with warranty returns...failed tools were exchanged for rebuilt ones, and they were even less accurate at matching those up.

rj

Back in my day... by Spock+the+Baptist · 2005-12-04 14:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Back in the late 70s, or early 80s the Skaggs-Albertson's in Waco carried fishing gear. Being a bass fishing type of guy, I frequented the 'Fishing Department" often. One afternoon I discovered that the store had got several Fenwick rods in. A couple of the spinning rods were models that I had been fantasying about for a year or so.

I was shocked when I saw the prices. They were about 1/4 of SRP. You did not get Fenwick rods back then for less than SRP. There were also 4 Plano tackle boxes that I had been admiring in the BassPro catalogue for a couple of years. They too were 1/4 of SRP. A couple of my buddies were with me, and the three of us scrapped to gather enough case on the spot to purchase these items.

I never have found out what the deal was, whether these items were mismarked, or if there was some skullduggery afoot. In any case I've still got both rods though I don't use them so much anymore. I gave the tackle boxes to one of my nephews, and he's still using them.

Frank, one of the above mention friends has always believed that we blinded-sided some tag switcher. His dad was a lawyer and there were some group of people about that time where one person would go into stores and switch tags one day and another would come back a couple of days later and purchase the items. Almost all of the suspected switches were to items that the average store employe would not know about, so the prices that the items were switched to did not draw suspicion. No one was ever arrested, and I don't believe that there was really anyone that was strongly suspected. The only clue that this might have been going on was the some of the store managers were finding items that were 'mismarked' with unusually high frequency. The suspicion was that if the second person got even a little nervous that things were not going well they'd never make the purchase.

I'm, personally, not so sure that this was the case. About 7 months after I purchased the rods and tackle boxes, fishing gear other than hooks, weights, line, and lures disappeared from the store. I'm thinking that the rods and tackle boxes were discounted to get them out of the store. Who knows???

--
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian

Re:The remedy is trivial... by SagSaw · 2005-12-04 15:13 · Score: 3, Informative

In other words, the label shouldn't convey the information "Charge this customer $X.XX", it should convey "Check for item XYZ... Return price."

That is already how the system works for most items. The scam then is to replace the barcode on the expensive item with an valid barcode from another, less expensive, item.

--
Come test your mettle in the world of Alter Aeon!

Can I get a Porsche? by Master+of+Transhuman · 2005-12-04 15:16 · Score: 3, Funny

...for $1.99 this way?

Jesus, an iPod for $4.99! Somebody's an idiot - and I'd say both the kid and whoever actually rang up a sale for this price qualify.

--
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!

Re:What's wrong with people? - Lack of Preschool by interiot · 2005-12-04 15:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, the hypothetical was:
Had I been in this kid's shoes, and I had already decided to commit this crime, here's how I would go about doing it

I'm not sure why that's not exceedingly obvious.

Re:I wonder by damsa · 2005-12-04 15:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

He didn't really steal the item. It was a counter offer. If I went to a car dealership, the sticker price said 30k. Then I offered 25k, and the other side accepted, then would it be stealing? No, because there was an offer, acceptance and consideration, a valid contract. The clerk as an agent of Walmart, saw the iPod, saw it was 4.99 and sold it at that price. Of course, it may be a mistake or fraudulent, but it is not stealing.

Definition: order of magnitude by dhasenan · 2005-12-04 15:57 · Score: 2, Informative

An order of magnitude, in situations like this, is best defined using scientific notation.

A number, let's say the cost of an iPod, is represented as a value and an order of magnitude:
149.99 = 1.4999 x 10^2

A number exactly one order of magnitude above that one would be represented much the same, but with an exponent one higher:
1499.90 = 1.4999 x 10^3

No spyware here by SteveXE · 2005-12-04 16:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

intersting

More shenanigans by Dougthebug · 2005-12-04 16:20 · Score: 2, Interesting

This reminds me of another trick a friend (who will remain anonymous) of mine once tried to pull. He heard some guys on irc talking about how they would buy new expensive video cards from circuit city, install them, put the old card back in the box and return it for a full refund the next day. Apparently the store clerks just look to see if there is a card in the box, and make you sign something.

So my buddy tried this with a new sound card. He paid cash and decided to forge his name when he returned it. Unfortunately the dumbass forgot do clean his old card off before putting it in the box to return it. So he took the card back and the clerk looked at if for a minute, then called their electronics 'expert' over. He looked at it and said something along the lines of, "it's dusty, I don't know if we can take it in this condition." So my friend panicked and said ok and promptly exited the premises without making the return.

I suppose this isn't quite the same as switching barcodes, but I wonder what the punishment would be if you were caught. Anybody else gotten away with this?

Bartering? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-04 16:25 · Score: 5, Funny

Seems to me that printing your own barcodes for goods is just a form of bartering. If the store is willing to accept your revised price offer, the sale is done.

Re:Bartering? by rmccann · 2005-12-05 03:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

Humans cannot read barcodes. So to a human, the product is not mis-described. If the clerk chooses to accept it then it's a valid sale. I know that's a murky argument.

Consider the influences. by Jerk+City+Troll · 2005-12-04 16:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

You need to grow up and realize that breaking the rules/law is wrong whether or not you get caught.

I would like to point out that it is the previous generation(s) who hold positions of influence in business and government routinely get away with henious crimes. (Take small sentences for destroying retirement funds for thousands of people, among other things.) We frequently see the wealthy and powerful get away with minor punishments that are effectively summed up as serving a prison sentence on a yaht in the Caribbean. Meanwhile, our society is replete with cases of minor offenses being punished beyond any reasonable severity. ($250,000 and larger fines for music swappers, or felony charges for young children reading passwords printed on their computers, for example.) If I was a young person, I would be extremely confused. Does this mean that the more serious your crimes are, the less serious the consequences? Does this mean I can do whatever I want if I am affluent? Given that getting into some trouble is part of youth, this makes for a dangerous influence. There are also plenty of cases where breaking the law is not “wrong”, so we cannot treat this as an absolute either. What Rosa Parks did was not wrong or unethical (quite the opposite), but it was most certainly against the rules.

So, you are absolutely correct that stealing is wrong, as is breaking most laws. However, I think we as a society need to do a few things (which come to mind) if we are to have any success in reducing crime. First, the punishments must fit the crime. Copying digital music should not have equal or worse consequences to stealing millions, perhaps billions from a corporation. Murder is a felony charge, not typing a password printed on the bottom of your laptop. You get the idea. Second, we must teach people how to properly evaluate laws and whether or not they are just. This is intrinsic to the continued operation of our democracy but it is hardly given any treatment. People must be able to determine which laws are reasonable insofar as the gravity of violations, and which laws must be disobeyed for the greater good. Third, we need to restore equal application under law irregardless of political, social, or economic standing. Today, the wealthy can afford good lawyers who are better versed in the law and thus finding loopholes. Meanwhile, the poor rarely have competent defense. This is very biased, and aside from being unfair and unjust, it also leads to further crime (these cycles are much more likely to be perpetuated in the lower classes).

--
Join Tor today!

Re:Consider the influences. by Skim123 · 2005-12-04 18:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

If you're OJ or Robert Blake you can kill people and only be punished monetarily. And if you're smart enough (or have good enough advisors) like OJ, you can buy a multi-million dollar house in Florida, declare bankruptcy, and then keep your house and stiff the family of the people you murdered.
Ah, sweet justice.

--
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG. by coolGuyZak · 2005-12-04 17:41 · Score: 2, Funny

The submitter was obviously trying to get the kid to do this again, so he could post the dupe!

EAN/UPC Barcodes by owlet · 2005-12-04 19:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

At least here in Finland you can't just change the price of a product by changing the barcode. The cash register uses the original EAN/UPC barcodes of the product to identify it and checks its database for the current price. A new barcode would show up as an unidentified product.

And switching barcodes is rather difficult, as the barcode is part of the product packaging. A sticker would look quite suspicious (although they do exist). And since the cash register always shows the product name, a switched code would display the name of the original product.

The returned recycle bottle receipt might be one exception. I think it encodes the sum of the returned bottles, and the cash register could accept custom versions. (It also might just use unique codes generated by the recycled bottle collector machine.)

Re:My Rights Online? by Legion303 · 2005-12-04 19:49 · Score: 2, Funny

I'm still waiting for user #97902 to post so I can call him/her a newbie.

Govt steals every day.... so? by cheekyboy · 2005-12-04 22:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Every day, the govt takes 35% of my money without asking, they just DO IT. If I dont agree, its 49%.

--
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.

Re:Just a foretaste of what's on the way... by PFI_Optix · 2005-12-05 05:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

No...credit cards = bad in scams like this. Retailers could potentially (and I've heard rumors that some already do) track purchases by credit card number. No personal information, not enough card information for identity theft, just a number and a looooong list of items purchased with it. When they notice a lot of missing iPods, they could conceivably check for corellation with purchase records on credit cards to try to match the pattern.

A lot of retailers now have self-check lines that accept cash. Scan and bag your own items, pay cash, walk out.

--
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.

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Barcode Scam Redux - Target's $4.99 iPod

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