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Microsoft Sued Over Alleged Xbox 360 Defects
richdun writes "Reuters is reporting that a Chicago man who was lucky enough to purchase an Xbox 360 has filed suit against Microsoft over the overheating and crashing some users have experienced. The man is seeking unspecified damages, litigation expenses, and replacement or recall of all Xbox 360s. While more suits or a class-action is probably on the way, others have sought less litigious solutions."
Xbox Burn your house down edition.
But it's going to set a dangerous precedent if this clown wins. He wants damages? With a defective product, the company isn't liable for anything beyond replacing it, unless there's some signed contract prior to purchase in which the manufacturer guarantees certain things.
I love that the submitter's comments seems to imply that it is somehow more noble for consumers to take the responsibility for defective products on themselves, as opposed to holding the manufacturer accountable.
Anyone can sue anyone else no matter how stupid it is, and there won't be any repurcussions except more money for the lawyers. What we really need is some system in place where the loser pays to further discourage stupid lawsuits.
I think there's some sci-fi book where the loser and his lawyer dies. That might work too, but I don't think most people would go for that.
If you aren't happy with the 360 why not just take it back? Why does everything have to resort to a law suit?
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"...others have sought less litigious solutions."
Oh they have
come on people! you know that by suing microsoft for admitting mistakes, you are only going to encourage them to cover up future problems instead of addressing them!
Bill, is that you?
Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
I think it is about time someone took a stand against companies pumping shit out to the customer before it is ready. Especially since it is obvious this was done to beat the Xmas season...
In addition, I don't like the way it was posted... "a Chicago man who was lucky enough to purchase an Xbox 360"... OH PLEASE!!!! "lucky enough" You make out to be some amazing thing... It's JUST a GAME BOX!!! Hello!!!
WoW!! When playing games is THAT important life must be truly sad.
"You smell that? Do you smell that?... litigation, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of litigation in the morning."
No matter where you go... there you are.
First iPod Nano then Xbox 360.
Am I seeing a commercial trend where hardware companies are increasing confident to roll out their products even if they are not thoroughly tested, simply because these companies know they have enough fanboys to buy anything they sell?
It's also interesting to see that these hardware companies are also software companies, who are regularly rolling out "beta" software to the public.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Unfortunately it is a class action lawsuit. The individual(s) will recieve a $1.25 check 10 years from now while the lawyers rack up $400/hr fees. Microsoft will issue a non-mea-culpa and continue life as usual, short $100 million, a drop in the bucket.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
Is it a design defect if you're specifically told what the 'problem' is and how to avoid it?
FYI I'm not talking about chainsaws that can accidentally cut your face off, more like a car owners manual that says "keep your radiator topped off or else your engine will overheat." Or in this case, don't put your Xbox in certain places, or it will overheat.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
If Microsoft just recalls all of the power adapters (which seem to be most of the issue), and replaces them with a different design that allows airflow underneath, they can basically stop this lawsuit and any others that are bound to come up. The other option would be to provide a free plastic base to all XBox360 owners that would snap on the bottom of the system and raise it up an inch from the surface.
People who sue over this stuff are worse than companies that unknowingly release a faulty product. There are better resolutions than calling a lawyer, like returning the system, waiting on a recall, or hacking it up with a string.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
So in exchange for an overheating and crashing Xbox 360, he will be facing the wrath of an overheating Balmer (sweaty armpits, soaked forehead) and his crashing chairs in the courtroom? :)
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Have things really gotten to the point when everytime we don't like a product we sue the manufacturer? What happened to the days when if a product wasn't what we expected it to be we simply told our friends not to buy one and didn't buy from that manufacturer again? Are companies required to produce products that every single person in the world likes otherwise be victims of a lawsuit? Are standard defects valid causes for suits? We (well Slashdot population) all know that no process is 100% defect free, even a 6 sigma process still has 3.4 defects per million opportunities. Are we that litigious? How long before someone sues a restaurant because their steak was medium instead of medium rare?
This is absolutely insane.
I don't see how there could be any grounds for a case. There certainly is no way that this guy can demonstrate that Microsoft hasn't been acting in good faith with customers or that there's been any sort of cover up. The Xbox360 has been out barely a week.
Not to mention that the first generation of anything often has problems. This certainly isn't unique to Microsoft. This is what happens when consumers crap themselves over something new and have to be the first ones to get it. They get screwed waiting in long lines, paying more than they should and having a potentially defective unit on top of all that.
Anyone with a little sense would wait a few months until those initial problems were addressed and then waltz into any store and choose from one of the dozens of unclaimed units sitting there on the shelves.
Not that I'd ever waste money on an Xbox360, or a PS3 or a Revolution for that matter. They should all stop screwing around and just start developing for the PC directly, because thats what those consoles are turning into anyway.
I suppose someone always has to be an early adopter, and they're the ones who are going to encounter the problems first, and it's because of them that these problems are discovered. However, if you can't get rid of the ants in your pants then you'd better learn to deal with the consequences. Too bad you cant sue someone for stupidity.
The man is seeking unspecified damages, litigation expenses, and replacement or recall of all Xbox 360s.
Why is that 'The Man' always has to ruin it for us?
You get bad units, it happens with any products. Microsoft are replacing all units which exhibit any fault, for example overheating. They overnight you an empty box, you put the defective unit in and overnight it back, then they overnight you a new unit. Total time elapsed: less than a week, total cost to you: zero dollars. That's better than most return policies in my experience. So far MS have been saying that the return rate is around 3%, which is below industry average. So again - what's the problem here? A company produced a product which has lower than average failure rates and is happily and rapidly replacing any defective units for free.
This guy doesn't wany justice, he wants free money. He's a greedy ass and should be brought to book for encouraging this insane litagation culture to feed his own pocket.
And the last thing I want is a recall - mine is working perfectly.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
then try this on for size.
The RIAA takes you to court, pays outrageous legal fees (which they can afford), files for extensions, appeals and whatever until you run out of money and can no longer defend yourself.
Then you lose.
Now you have your legal fees, plus theirs!
Do you still think making the loser pay all legal fees is a good idea?
We have always been at war with Eurasia!
That's for a non-critical item. That's better service than we get on some computers here at work, and those are at least somewhat important. A console is entertainment only. If this was a life support device, yes lawsuit. If this was a critical server, maybe. A game console? Hell no. If the company is offering less than a week turn around on reparis, I'd say you have nothing to whine about. You can either accept that, or simply take the unit back (all units are less than 30 days old).
Talk about a lot of fuss over an entertainment device.
Its called the warranty of merchantability. It basicly means that when you buy something, its supposed to do what its claimed to do, without known hazardous side effects. The Xbox360 may fail this due to the overheating.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
I think there are too many lawyers in the world.
Now, I know some are just plain defective. That'll happen when you ship hundreds of thousands. There might even be more defective units than would normally be expected. That could happen to, due to manufacturing difficulties.
1 24290
But a design defect? I just don't know if we're there.
I know it gets hot http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169465&cid=14
But it gets hot because it does so much. Its regular level of consumption is 160W. That's a lot, and it all turns into heat. Despite this, the Xbox 360 has a great cooling system. It really keeps itself cool.
But, like all devices, a cooling system just moves the heat somewhere else, in this case ouside the case. So if you put it in a confied area or block the vents, it will be unable to cool itself. There is NOTHING MS can do about this.
Perhaps you'd like Xbox to take less power (PS2 uses 50W). I can understand that. But it's not going to happen. PS3 will be the same. These super-capable game machines are pushing the limits of technology and so they use a lot of power and generate a lot of heat.
So, lawsuit aside, when you evaluate your problems with 360, make sure you're not expecting MS to defy the laws of thermodynamics.
BTW, I got together an EXECELLENT cooling system for my 360 in my stereo/video game cabinet now. I'm considering writing it up. Costs a fair bit, but instead of 116F inside there with the front panel cracked an inch, now it gets to 78F (67F ambient in the room) in there with the front panel completely closed. It's so much quieter now.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Actually as far as I understand you can be liable for a product you manifacture & sell if either 1) it has knowingly a default 2) it does not respect the local norm/standard 3) it does not work as described in the manual/package (please notice that I do not say it does not work as adverstised!). Liability can involve depending on the country from replacement of the unit, partial or complete refund and in the most extreme case, recall or even severe fine and damage (mostly in case of default endangering a life).
Now this US situation is this : you can sue ANYBODY. Naturally a judge might throw your claim out, or even kick you out of the court for contempt, your claim might not even go beyond a first hearing or whatnot. Suing does not guarantee you have a claim, it only means you THINK you have a claim. See for example each year the tax protester suing the federal governement (NONE get beyond the judge throwing the claim out or even laughing and in one documented case calling the claimant a fool). So in that case, since a solution already exists (replacement of the unit) then the lawsuit won't probably go very far. That is, unless he can prove 1) that he can't get a replacement or a refund from MS/reseller or/and 2) the overheating unit involve a life risk and/or already damaged a person and/or possessions(items).
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I find this utterly absurd, and upsetting too.... This is what our country is coming too? You just get to sue anyone you want to and try to get rich?
To be completely honest, I don't care if his xbox is freezing up from overheating, I don't recall microsoft promising that the xbox would not overheat, and there have yet to be any cases of the system starting a fire or some such thing, so If its not dangerous, then there is no legal case.
Every time someone bought a computer that overheated and shut down they could sue the computer company for damages? At the most, you deserve a new system, or to get yours repaired, and thats it.
I'll also add, that in my opinion, all the cases of xbox overheats are cuased by end-users that are not smart enough to keep it in a well ventilated place. It is an incredibly powerful computer dissipating several hundred watts of power. It is simply impossible for it to work in a closed cabinet, or if the power supply is set behind it wherein the xbox draws in hot air.
Sorry to go on a rant, and I'm not defending consumer electronics companies that send out flakey hardware, but you took a risk on buying one of the first units off the shelf, and regardless of whether or not it works you have no right to file litigation against the company. Get a refund for your box, i'm sure they'll be happy to give you one, and thats all.
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
... run about 3% and are being replaced for free; please read http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170258&c id=14188093 and shut up...
-everphilski-
A friend of mine made a post on our IRL pals forum that I thought I'd share...
"""
Lets be fair here - i'm no fanboy, but even I have to admit its not just Microsoft.
Sega Genisis - Crashes games
SNES - at launch batteries were being drained faster from cartidge then supposed to (not sure what this means)
N64 - At launch wouldn't read some cartridges
PSOne - Wouldn't read some games, laser would lways fall out of alignment, and system would overheat
Dreamcast - Overheating
PS2 - Scratch the hell out of people's DVD Movies as well as some games, majority of systems at launch would overheat
XBox - Overheating problems on some systems
XBox 360 - CPU not functional, overheating, scratching disks
"""
MoM++ - A Classic Expanded - [Master of Magic 1.5]
http://mompp.sourceforge.net/
Unless you were personally holding the defective power unit when it overheated, thereby causing 2nd or 3rd degree burns, not be able to play with your new toy for a week or two is not grounds for emotional stress or pain and suffering.
I've had to deal with the microsoft hardware department a couple times myself for my mouse (plus a few times for work but I'll keep the corporate support seperate). Because of the way the cable was fed into the mouse it had a nasty habit of breaking the wires and causing the mouse to behave irratically. Both times I called them they sent me a brand new mouse, free of charge, and never asked for the old one back. The last times I even got one of the newer styles and haven't had a problem since. I've never had a hassle from them and never once thought about a lawsuit. From the sounds of it, their XBox support is about the same.
Anyone aware of the XBox or PS history should know that by buying the systems on the release date they are just asking for trouble. Best to wait for revision 2 or 3 to come around. Thats being said, I haven't heard the same about Nintendo and depending on price I will probably buy a Revolution as soon as it's out, but I also wouldn't be too upset if something like this happened then.
When you buy leading edge tech, you've essentially signed up to be unpaid testers. A lot of problems can only be discovered when you move from a few hundred test machines in controlled environments to thousands of machines out in the wild.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
>Its called the warranty of merchantability. It basicly means that when you buy something, its supposed to do
>what its claimed to do, without known hazardous side effects. The Xbox360 may fail this due to the overheating.
Except the Xbox also ships with SOFTWARE, with the software there is a EULA that says there is no warranty or fitness of any kind given!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Microsoft sued over alleged Xbox 360 glitch [headline]
/., who reads manuals), but if you take a 360 a stuff in a location that doesn't have good air flow then I'm not surprised the unit is crashing. FWIW, I have mine in an open AV rack that has plenty of ventilation and I've had the thing on for over straight hours at one point and it didn't crash on me. Not all that time was playing games--the last 2+ hours of was playing it and MCE 2005, but when you can justify the purchase to the wife by streaming HD pr0n onto the HDTV, it's worth the time.
"A Chicago man who bought Microsoft Corp.'s new
Xbox 360 has sued the world's largest software maker, saying the new video game console has a design flaw that causes it to overheat and freeze up...."
My car has a glitch/design flaw as well. If I start it and leave the keys in the ignition and then get out of my car and lock the doors, I can't get back into my car without modding my car's window or calling in "experts" (legally registered tax paying business, or the type registered by the sheriff's department).
I have a 360 and it does run hot....they need to have proper ventilation, probably more so than any other computer or A/V component I've ever owned. I'm not sure how well the manual states this as I never read them (hey this is
Now was it wise of MS/partners to design it this way (to run as hot as it does and require so much ventilation)? Who knows what their design specs say. But just image taking your tower PC, shrinking by a factor of 4-5 times and then cranking up the CPU/GPU full throttle and think about how much heat would be generated. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but owners of some of the new high powered high tech toys may need to be educated on how well this ptoys work as a space heater.
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The George Foreman Grill: XBox 360 Edition. Fraggin' and fryin' galore.
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Yes, these lawsuits are stupid, but there are two things to consider here (speaking in general, I don't know the specifics of this case, but I can say that this person _deserves_ no more than a replacement Xbox and maybe $100 or a few free games to make up for missing out on the launch day fun. What they'll ask for/get is, I'm sure, another matter): firstly, if any of us can make a significant amount of money from doing very little work - why not? The system's broken anyway, others are exploiting it, so maybe we shouldn't be so hard on these people for joining in. If someone told you that you could have $1000000 for nothing except exploiting a system that's getting fucked over anyway, would you really be that bad for taking it?
That leads to my second point: whose fault is it that the legal and social structures are fucked (i.e. a judge doesn't throw out ridiculous cases _and_ a jury sides with these people)? Could it be the big evil corporations that tell people what to think? I honestly don't know, but the likes of Sony, MS, McDs etc. who generally get hit by these lawsuits are all partially responsible for the state of the 'developed' world anyway.
Maybe I'm feeling extra cynical today, but it just looks to me like the system's screwed anyway, so just make the most of it. Corporations are the epitome of selfishness, and many people are going the same way. Perhaps it's time to give up and go with the flow, because I'm losing sight of any other way to 'win' here.
I think the general issue here is you're putting an environmentally sensetive device in the hands of the masses, and as I'm sure 90% of the IT professionals here that have served tech support can tell you, the masses are flaming idiots.
The XBox360 itself does run very hot. Mine I keep in an open AV cabinet with plenty of ventilation and I keep the PSU in a cool area as well. The XBox360 itself is pretty much a super-charged PC in a space 1/10th a standard PC's size. So of course it's going to run hot, and people should take the proper measures.
The design of the XBox360 was one that had to meet a few goals.
1) Had to look cool
2) Had to be smaller or as small as original XBox
3) Had to have adequate cooling WHILE not producing excessive noise from fans and other cooling elements
So Microsoft had to compromise on #3. They had to have the fans run quiet enough so people wouldn't yell, "OMG, ITS TOO LOUD!".. yet have them run fast enough where people wouldn't yell "OMG, MY XBOX IS OVERHEATING NO MATTER WHAT!"
With any manufactured device, there are going to be failures, be it mechanical failure or failure due to the manufacturing process. I'm sure if someone wrote CNN every time one of their Hard Drives died, or every time they got a bad pixel on an LCD, you'd see many other CONSUMER ALERTS for MASS HARDWARE FAILURE, but you don't. Because we've all been using computers long enough to know that with anything, sometimes you just get a bum device and have to get a new one.
Why is the XBox360 different from other computer devices? Well, as I see it, two reasons:
Reason #1 -- It's Microsoft, easy target for hate from some people.
Reason #2 -- There's nothing we can do. The reason Intel doesn't get sued because their CPU's run too hot, is because as consumers we can crack open our case and swap out the cooling with a solution that better fits our needs. Unfortunately, we cannot do this with the XBox360 because there are no alternatives to the cooling and it would void your warranty.
What are we to do?
Well, personally, I haven't had a single issue with the Xbox360 that was worth even getting on the phone over. It has locked up twice, but this isn't the first time in my 24 years that a console game as locked up on me. I recall RC Pro-AM locking up on level 98 and almost having a stroke.
For those of you having issues, explore every option in making sure it's in the proper environment before immediately pointing to hardware defect. If this still doesn't work, just call Microsoft and open up an RMA. Their process takes no more than 4 days before you'll have a new Xbox360 in your hot little hands.
Since when is it cheaper to produce a flawed product and then fix it rather than producing a product that works the first time?
... nowhere NEAR as cheap. Like, so dissimilar as to be a laughable analogy if you didn't seem so serious about it.
Didn't you just lose money fixing the problem that could have been avoided in the first place?
Hardware repairs are not so cheap as a simple software patch that can be posted online and downloaded
You don't even consider the damage to a company's reputation which, though Microsoft is disdained amongst geeks, most consumer's expect quality from.