Slashdot Mirror
UK Cold War Era Nuclear War Plans Revealed
NicerGuy writes "The BBC reports that documents from 1975, recently released by the National Archives, detail in part the UK's plan in the event of nuclear strikes during the Cold War. An audio download of the prepared radio broadcast is available. Several other topics are covered." From the article: "Further documents released this week reveal that two pandas in London Zoo sparked fears a diplomatic rift could flare up between Britain and China in the 1970s."
"Oh bloody hell, the Yanks have really done us in this time."
Too bad the so-called audio download is only available as WMP/Realplayer embedded content. Where's the direct download link? Isn't BBC one of the few media giants to have embraced open formats, etc?
I know the pandas are China's national treasure... But I'm sure China would NOT nuke humanity for the sake of two pandas. We got enough endanger species as it is.
That in discussions between Prime Minister Harold Wilson and the BBC's chairman they talked about whether there were too many "hippies" in the corporation
They all moved on to Slashdot.
Probably a more accurate version of how the British government's "plans" would be followed after a nuclear exchange.
It's an awesome move, too!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090163/
A few weeks ago Poland revealed (to the dismay of Russia) the nuclear war plans from the days of the warsaw pact. The map was a truly scary prospect. Much of Poland would be annihilated in that nuclear war. Here's one article covering that story. You can find lots more. One interesting disclosure was the war games map with all the nuclear strike sites marked on it.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Talk about a Panda-mic!
sigfault. core dumped.
Well, you gotta nuke something. Nelson
... and then they built the supercollider.
Furthermore, my friends and I play a lot of pen-and-paper role-playing games set in Europe (Call of Cthulhu mainly) and they always accuse me of a "lack of realism" in the manner in which my characters behave. My response to said friends? "They're British. They boil their meat. They drink warm beer. I don't have to explain their unusual behavior; just play the damn game."
I can now add: "They'd let their entire population be atomized in order to wipe out the 'hippie menace.'"
... if they provided an unedited and uncommented version of the broadcast. .7) analogue TV channels there is no way to get a major news flash. when 11/9 happened I only knew about it because I happened to be watching BBC1 at the time (well this would be true had I also not been on IRC at the time, but the average daytime TV viewer in the UK isn't always on-line), had I been watching any of the other digital channels I had at the time, I'd not have seen anything.
As a UK resident it would be nice to know the kind of broadcast I'd be hearing the moment all other mediums went down. I have no idea if we even have an emergency broadcast channel or radio station.
Aside from always watching the big 4.7 (Channel five only counts as
I won't get in to the whole "We have plans to make sure we can run the country, even if the rest of the country is dead, injured or suffering from radiation poisoning" thing, that's for another rant.
Music is everybody's possession.
It's only publishers who think that people own it.
Fuck Beta
~John Lenno
Here's a little self-plug for something somewhat related that I scanned. A "Civil Defense Manual" for Seattle from 1951. Check it out, there's some unintentionally amusing stuff in there.
Do not read this sig.
Fucking Kangaroos
http://www.asti-usa.com
whoosh
That was the sound of a joke. You might have not been able to hear it, as it seems to have passed miles above your head.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
I'm glad there's no threat of nuclear annihilation anymore so all these plans can be thrown out. Seriously though, they must have better plans now 'cause the nuclear threat is still there. They probably have dug bunkers under Ben Nevis or something.
Har har... If it were a front-page story I'd be worried, but even a +5 comment (if it gets that high) I think I can handle. ;^)
Do not read this sig.
What's the big deal? Duck and cover & you're set.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Liquidation probably refers to the unfortunate state that the British economy had reached in the 1970s.
In addition to facing a nuclear threat (vaporization) there was a serious possibility that the country might collapse economically (liquidation).
Eventually the government got support from the IMF.
Of course the Soviet Union might have taken advantage of the situation if an economic collapse did happen in which case you might have had both sequentially.
Lots of different government papers got released at the same time, so it tends to get reported together.
America gave us "The Day After" which came off as an Irwin Allen disaster flick.
Britain gave us "Threads" which scared you shitless.
Also "When the Wind Blows" should be mentioned.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Guiness, with a high concentration of both iron and iodine would be an ideal treatment for radiation poisioning.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Pandamic isn't a real word.
Oh, yeah?
errrr, try this one instead.
Note that the pandas and the plans for possible nuclear war are two separate topics, both of which came to light from what amounts to declassified cabinet papers.
The article is about some of the interesting tidbits from this archival release which are by and large unrelated to eachother.
Strange that it was not in the original post..but look at one of the items in the secrect docs: "How British diplomats secretly floated the idea that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein - seen then as a figure to be courted - could be brought to the UK for a back operation."
Ahh, Sweet Armageddon.
Raise your hand if you still have pinto beans and 2L coke bottles filled with tap water and 1 tsp bleach in your basement from 1999.
I thought so...
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Guiness, with a high concentration of both iron and iodine would be an ideal treatment for radiation poisioning.
They weren't kidding when they said 'Guiness is good for you', were they? That was the actual Guiness slogan in the UK not too long ago, maybe it still is. Pub lifeforms will thrive in a post-apocalyptic world, with Guiness and a nice hot kidney pie, yum.
I, for one, welcome our new Dublin-based stoutmeister overlords. Salud!
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
I've been looking for the documents under the FOI part of the site, and can't find them.. has anyone else?
Meanwhile Australia's down there like, "WTF mate?"
Russia's like, "AAAAHHHH, MOTHERLAND!"
Then, England's like... "'bout that time, ey chaps?"
"... Righto."
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
A panda walks into a bar. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.
"Why? Why are you behaving in this strange, un-panda-like fashion?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda walks towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.
"I'm a panda," he says, at the door. "Look it up."
The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.
"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."
From Eats Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss
What could possibly go wrong?
Actually not. The vast majority of casulties caused by a thermonuclear explosion are caused from the intense heat and pressure of the bomb, as they would be with a conventional warhead. Large doses of gamma radiation are of course, released during the explosion, but it only effects people very close to ground zero. And "radioacive fallout" is another big myth about nuclear weapons. The amount of radioactive material left is comparatively small, and on top of that, are alpha emitters anyway are only dangerous if ingested/inhaled and only then if in comparatively large doses.
That stuff about Pandas, Beer or Europe are nothing to do with the nuclear stuff, it's just that everything from 1975 has been declassified after 30 years so everything comes out at once, that article is rather confused as it's a summery rather than soley about civil defence.
if the education system has only been decimated, that's not so bad
i would settle for a technical education system which is 90% as good as the old soviet system.
ok with a bit more money for equipment.
perhaps you meant 'almost completely destroyed' rather than decimated.
MOD PARENT UP!
/. who understands the gravity of the situation!
Finally, someone on
If a nuke was set off in any part of the US, no current politician would be able to resist the public outcry...no make that demands, to glass an entire country or region. The rise of public opinion would be stronger than WWI, WWII, KW, and Vietnam combined! If the person in power here in the US didn't retaliate with nukes I would be willing to bet they would be ousted and replaced with someone who would. An event like that as you mention would change US foreign policy, and even world opinion instantly.
With that being said, I hope it never happens.
However, some insight on things. Everyone believed that Saddam had WMDs prior to our invasion of Iraq. CIA, MI6, Mossad, etc all were in agreement. Well, Saddam couldn't get a nuke to the US, but he might could get one to Israel. As you said Israel has stated many times in the past few years that they are prepared to defend themselves and retaliate mercilessly at any aggressor regardless of world opinion or US intervention.
If you remember just prior to our invasion of Iraq N Korea unplugged the cameras inside their nuclear reactor and began to fire it back up. N Korea is under heavy heavy sanctions and needs crude oil. Iraq needed nuclear fuel for a hydrogen bomb. I suspect they were either about to make a trade, or they had already made the trade.
This is why we invaded Iraq in my opinion; Saddam was trading oil for processed uranium with North Korea, and he would then be a direct threat to Israel if he had a working nuke. The US knows that if Israel is attacked there is no holding them back so we decided to take out Saddam and make the whole situation go away before the entire MidEast was turned into glass. Invading N Korea wasn't really an option as we didn't want to deal with the Chinese aspect of that equation. Also logistically and practically Iraq was a much eaiser target at the time. Iraq had no major allies or at least none that would stand up to a US invasion. Their business partners (France/Germany) were not willing to go to war with the US over the invasion of Iraq, but they did voice loudly their opposition because they were selling a great deal of arms and technology to Saddam.
Libertas in infinitum
I had a huge laugh tonight after I read about the US Army's plans to invade CANADA! Seems that back in the 1930s we made plans just in case we went to war with Britain. And back then the Canucks had a plan to invade the US. Let's see, where's the link...
Raiding The Icebox
I figure the Canadians will never forgive US for neglecting to conquer them.
Years back, I went to Tijuana and looked around and thought, "this place needs adult supervision." And a few years after that, I went to Sault Ste. Marie and saw the perfectly manicured lawns, clean streets, and perfect order. And I thought, "this place has a bit too much adult supervision."
The first reason for a nuclear war would be desperation. The reason the US and the USSR never had a ground war and kept their proxy wars limited was that neither wanted to push the other to the edge.
The other reason to start a nuclear war is that you might think you could actually win. This was one if the reasons anyone with a brain was so against star wars (No not the prequels the space defence program of the reagan era) as it could make the US think it could win a nuclear war or even worse make the USSR think it had no choice but to strike before the US became invulnerable.
Now lets look at the world today. US still working on Star Wars. A reaganite in the white house. USSR collapsed and in huge uncertainty of what is going to happen next with the US doing everything it can to upset the russian goverment and people.
China is still there with the old goverment possibly feeling attacked by the capatalist west.
The rogue nations don't matter. none of them are capable of triggering the lethal mutual exchange of weapons. Even as you suggest a dirty bomb in NY would cause the US to whipe muslims from the face of the earth, so what? No rogue nation has the capability to retaliate in force.
Only the former USSR and china and of course the US got the arsenal to create this end of the world scenario. Right at this moment it seems unlikely to happen BUT then again the same could have been said at the hight of the cold war.
The greatest threat I can see if russia/USSR continues on its slide to a 3rd world nation. Their is already a lot of sentement in russia to go back to a communist goverment. The whole collapse of the USSR rested on the believe that it would bring better times. So far this has not happened in fact the majority of the citizens have never had it so bad. A reforming of the USSR itself would be no threath (why should they reform just to commit suicide) but the reaction of the US might bring us right back to the days of the cold war with one tiny difference. This time the russians would have a lot of resentment. Think germany pre-ww2.
No, I don't think world war 3 The nuclear edition is going to happen but it is not impossible either. If anything the collapse of the cold war has made a World War 3 more likely. The world has lost a lot of stability while the US has gained a lot of perceived invulnerability. During the cold war the US more or less behaved because it did not want to push the russians to far. Will the US be so restrained? The war on terror would suggest not (perhaps this is World War 3? Remember WW2 had a longer pre-history then the invasion of poland.). The US can't even be bothered to be nice to its NATO allies anymore.
Strangely enough I do not think the risk comes from N. Korea or similar directly. To strike would be suicide. You do not commit suicide unless you think there is no other choice. The real threath is the rest of the world mostly the US pushing these nations into a corner.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It won't help, but nor will anything else.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
The War Game made in 1966 by the BBC shows what would have happened and have been done in the event of a soviet nuclear attack, although it was banned from TV for being too graphic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059894/ You can probably get it on bit torrent somewhere if you want to watch it.
Rock is Dead! Long live Paper and Scissors!!
To give you some idea of the mindset of these people the following instructions were actually included in the plans.
"In the event of a nuclear strike on the City of London transport links will almost certainly be disrupted and many commuters will be unable to get home. Tea and biscuits will therefore be served on tressle tables in Hyde Park to those requiring refreshment"
Now I know why my Grandfather dug a bunker in the back yard.
Ed Almos
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
Yeh, saw this film again a year or so ago - Its not lost any of its power - shocking film.
Or just ask Europe about what happens when a nuclear reactor redlines, no actual detonation necessary.
Perhaps you should read up on the subject and do some thinking about it before you go spouting off nonsense like that.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Actually its a real pain in the backside getting the url out of the BBC's player window as its all built with javascript.
0 12da6800315e8/bb/09012da68003170d_16x9_bb.ram
u dio/9012da6800315e8/bb/09012da68003170d_16x9_bb.ra ?title="BBC"&author=""©right="(C) British Broadcasting Corporation"
To save everone the trouble, here is the url for the ram file
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news_web/audio/9
and here's the rtsp address to the actual content
rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/news/media/avdb/news_web/a
Torrent
http://www.torrentreactor.net/view.php?id=5080210
Fortunately in this case the stream can be played with
u dio/9012da6800315e8/nb/09012da68003170d_16x9_nb.ra
mplayer rtsp://rmv8.bbc.net.uk/news/media/avdb/news_web/a
without the need for any evil binary-only dlls.
I'll second that. Just don't expect to sleep well for a couple of days afterwards.
It terrified me.
The amount of fallout from a high altitude airburst is indeed low. You have little more than vaporized bomb components and maybe a little irridated water vapor. A low altitude detonation is another kettle of fish altogether. The explosion will suck up significant amounts of ground clutter and irridate it for falling back to earth. A ground level or just under the ground detonation is the worst of all. Structures and a large amount of ground itself are vaporized and will be carried on prevailing winds. As with the low altitude detonation, dirt, dust, and debris will be sucked from the surrounding environs and made radioactive.
How can you say that fallout is a minor concern?
I have both Threads and The Day After. The Day After is pretty good until the actual attack - especially the sequences in the missile LCF etc. However, the attack is unrealistic (if the doctor had been close enough that he heard the explosion when he did, he'd have been vaporized, but he was pretty much uninjured) especially compared to Threads where the nuclear explosions are silent until the blast hits. Threads is so much better made. It is also probably the most depressing film I've ever seen.
Do you have or know of where to get a copy of "A Guide to Armageddon"? It was shown on the BBC programme QED in about 1982-1983 and it was about the effects of a one megaton strike on London. I've not seen or heard of it since. Google hasn't turned up anything useful either, nor have the P2P networks.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Wow, that really debunks the stereotype in the previous post.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Try http://www.bbclearningasiapacific.com/asp/catalogu e/productdetail.asp?productcode=19868
Who are you trying to kid about fallout being a myth?
The intensity can vary depending on the kind of strike and the altitude of the detonation. Ground bursts are extremely radioactively dirty - the neutron flux makes the ground that was evaporated highly radioactive. This is sucked up as the mushroom cloud goes up, and is deposited downwind. It is extremely lethal for the first couple of days, and the danger decreases. It generally isn't safe for a couple of weeks.
Air bursts tend to cause less fall out, especially if the fireball doesn't touch the ground and evaporate soil and debris that has been made radioactive by the intense neutron flux.
Fission bombs (per kiloton) will generally produce more dangerous fallout than fusion bombs. However, all fusion bombs include at least one fission stage. Some thermonuclear bombs may make half their yield from the fusion of the primary and the natural uranium tamper.
Britain is a densely populated country, with all the targets close together. In the event of a nuclear war in the 1970s, Britain would have essentially been carpet bombed - and far worse off radiologically than the United States or the USSR (who would undoubtedly been the parties who actually started the war). The UK government estimated that in a nuclear war, Britain would have been struck with at least 200 megatons, and feasibly up to 1000 megatons. This level of attack would leave almost no unbroken windows in Britain, and virtually the entire land mass would have enough fall out deposited on it to cause radiation sickness. Most livestock would be killed, and most crops would fail. There would only be a few areas that would have been safe - some of the west cost of Scotland (the prevailing winds are generally westerly) and some areas of Cumbria/Northumbria. It is quite likely that the British population would have fallen to under 5 million or fewer (from 55 million). By contrast, probably half the US population would survive due to the vastly lower population density. An even larger proprotion of Russians would probably survive. The rest of Western Europe would suffer a worse fate than Britain, being the probable battlefield prior to the final attack.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
How did you find the two apart from the technicalities? I'm curious how Threads dealt with the human impact of a war, and what scale was used (for those that don't know, The Day After focused on one small Kansas town).
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
"By the way, does anybody know if SAC (Strategic Air Command) is still flying its' B-52 bombers in circles around the perimeter of the Artic Circle, just in case?" SAC itself doesn't exist anymore. After the fall of the Wall it was reorganized as U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM). It's still located in Omaha, NE and still maintains its role in the control of U.S. nuclear assets. Although it has now gained roles in military weather forcasting (not as innocent as it seems - afterall, you need updates in the changes of barometric pressures around the world to ensure accurate aerial blasts) and in 2002 it became the home to U.S. Space Command. Offutt AFB (home of STRATCOMM in Omaha) still maintains some deep bunkers and complex communication equipment - it's where they sent Dubya after the first hours 9/11. (I did my undergrad in Omaha and it was eerie to hear fighter-jets circling and to see news reports of men w/automatic weapons sealing off the base - all before definitive news reports were out). As to still having B 52s at a fail-safe - I don't think so - although I do see the Airborne Command Post coming and going quite a bit (it's hard to miss a huge white plane flying on a low approach) - that does stay in the air 24/7 after 9/11 - it's also kinda creepy b/c I've heard that they always keep at least one general on board at all times w/ launch codes incase Washington is attacked...(http://www.stratcom.mil/fact_sheets/fa ct_acp.html)
your sig seems to fit this topic perfectly. This makes me wonder how many people here have actually heard of GYBE...
Threads was set in Sheffield, an industrial town of half a million in Yorkshire (at the time Threads was made, Sheffield was a major steel producing city). In the vicinity of Sheffield is the former air force base at Finningley (approximately 15 miles away), and the whole Vale of York area (there's several RAF bases in that part of the country).
Threads follows two families who live in Sheffield. One family is a well-to-do middle class family, as far as you can gather, the man of the house is a manager or engineer at a steel works, the mother a housewife, and they have one daughter. The other family is a working class family with three children - the youngest is pre-teen, a teenage girl, and a man in his early 20s who works as a carpenter (the families are linked as he is engaged to marry his pregnant girlfriend, the daughter of the other family). The first family has a substantial stone house on the outskirts of Sheffield which includes a cellar. The other family lives in the high-density housing areas in suburban Sheffield. Their only cover is an improvised shelter built inside the house by the father.
The first strike, like The Day After, is an EMP attack which causes no injury on the ground. The first strike against a ground target is a 150kt strike on Finningley, which causes car accidents in Sheffield (from those who were driving in towards the flash). The shockwave of that strike breaks windows in Sheffield. At this stage there is panic - the working class family are madly scrambling to take shelter - the father and mother is seen desperately piling up matresses and other items onto the improvised shelter (the man is actually taking a crap at the time the Finningley strike occurs). The other familly is seen going down to their cellar, trying to help the elderly grandmother down the stairs to the cellar. The young woman runs out to find her boyfriend, but is caught by her father and taken down to the shelter. Meanwhile, the young man was at work when the Finningley strike occurs, and tries to drive to his girlfriend's, but his car won't start - presumably due to the EMP (although being an 1969 Cortina, it probably wasn't that reliable anyway!) So he takes off on foot. That's the last we see of him.
Not long after, Sheffield is hit by a strategic nuclear weapon of unknown strength. I first saw "Threads" aged about 12, and the image of milk bottles melting in the heat stopped me from sleeping properly for at least three weeks. Only the husband and wife of the working class family make it into their shelter, and the wife is badly burned by the flash. All of the other family survives the initial strike.
The film also covers the civil defence team from the City Council who take shelter in the basement of the town hall.
After the attack, the film covers the next 13 years. We see most of the rest of the story through the eyes of Ruth, the pregnant woman. Everyone else we met and got to know at the start of the film (including the city council) dies - some immediately during the attack on Sheffield, and some later (the children of the working class family all die in the attack, the parents survive a little longer and presumably die of radiation sickness since their shelter was very poor). The middle class family apart from Ruth are killed by looters. The civil defence team suffocates in the city council bunker as the town hall has collapsed and closed off the ventilation. The rest of the film shows the devastation, the effects of nuclear winter, and the effects on Ruth's child who was born a few months after the war. There is very little dialogue in the second half of the film. You see shell shocked survivors trying to rebuild at least a subsistence level - scavenging food, trying to make new clothes out of scavenged material. Later on in the film, you see some limited electricity generation and the use of steam, and attempts to teach the post-war children. The film ends with Ruth's 13 year old daughter miscarrying her baby.
It also contains the real public information broadcasts t
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Here it is if somebody haven't seen it or need to laugh a bit: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php
:)
"Alaska can come too"
Oh and happy new year!
this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
When I posted to mod parent up, it was supposed to go underneath your post. Your original post there was the one I wanted modded up. I guess I was confuesd at 3am ;-)
I am glad to see someone else on here finally gets it.
Libertas in infinitum
Of course someone would say something this moronic as an AC.
First off I would say that you should be ashamed of yourself for your dislogic, listening to FUD, and inability to think critically.
Secondly, if we were after oil then we simply would've occupied/plundered from Kuwait and called it a "protection royalty". Why invade Iraq when we have a country that only exists because at our pleasure - Kuwait?
Third, no oil has really been removed from Iraq; at least not to the US. If there was a greater supply on the market prices probably would've dropped by now, but they have actually been on the increase since the invasion. Even though we would be justified in taking some of Iraq's oil as a reparation for Saddam's atrocities, the Bush admin has repeatedly stated over and over again that the US will not take Iraq's oil because he doesn't want people to think that the invasion was about oil.
Hate to break it to ya, this conflict wasn't about oil. People who think it was need to learn how to remove their cranium from their rectum.
Libertas in infinitum
He had WMDs, at least of the chemical kind. How do we know this? Because we gave them to him, and then the Russians gave them to him! He also used them in the Gulf War.
. html#Geo
d =3549625
As for bio and nuke... well we don't have any of those types of Iraqi WMDs in our hands at this point. However as we were invading from the south and east a LOT of vehicles were exiting the country out of the west to Jordan and Syria. No one knows what those vehicles contained. There was preliminary intell that suggested he had a nuke but no fuel for it; thus a trade with N Korea.
Also, Saddam was the master of hiding things in the desert. During the Gulf War we found entire MIGs buried in the sand. It would be ludicrous to think they never existed. To put those thoughts into a few facts:
According to the CIA World Factbook
Iraq land = 437,072 sq km
http://odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz
California land = 410,000 sq km
http://enc.slider.com/Enc/California
Back in October a gentleman was hiking in California (close to the same size of Iraq) and discovered a crashed WWII Airmen frozen in the mountains (on the surface). The plane had been there for 63 years in a public area, open to anyone, on our own soil, and in fact it was one of our National Parks! They were only about 35 miles from Fresno!
http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=local&i
The mountains in Iraq's are around 9,800ft This park looks to be roughly 10,000ft http://nps.gov/seki/pphtml/maps.html>. Using that same logic, it could equally be 60-100 years before any buried WMDs are found in Iraq's desert or mountains; assuming they are even found at all.
As to the oil, if we were after oil then we simply would've occupied/plundered from Kuwait and called it a "protection royalty". Why invade Iraq when we have a country that only exists because at our pleasure - Kuwait?
No oil has really been removed from Iraq; at least not to the US. If there was a greater supply on the market prices probably would've dropped by now, but they have actually been on the increase since the invasion. Even though we would be justified in taking some of Iraq's oil as a reparation for Saddam's atrocities, the Bush admin has repeatedly stated over and over again that the US will not take Iraq's oil because he doesn't want people to think that the invasion was about oil.
Hate to break it to ya, this conflict wasn't about oil. People who think it was need to learn how to remove their cranium from their rectum.
Libertas in infinitum
Yes - as Saddam was showing the inspectors in the front door, he was moving weapons out the back door.
7 1&cid=14372795
The protesters don't matter because they are common idiots.
I don't want to post the same thing twice in one topic, so I will refer my response to something I just posted that will answer your rantings about as good as they answered the rantings of another pseudo-intellect here:
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725
Libertas in infinitum
Having been to both places, I'll vouch for the fact US should have had an invasion (or Annexation) plan for Tijuana's Revolucion Ave district way back when it was needed most.
Sault Ste. Marie... Gosh.. Neat, crisp town. Ever been to the Antler's Club? Burger any good nowaday?
Tijuana, the dump.