TiVo Unveils Series3 HDTV DVR

MegaZone writes "TiVo unveiled their new Series3 unit at CES yesterday. The Series3 is a digital cable ready box, capable of recording two programs simultaneously. It supports cable and antenna input, and it can handle digital or analog cable, digital ATSC, or analog NTSC broadcasts. CableCARD is used for digital cable, and it can utilize a single multi-stream card, or two single-stream cards. The system also sports 2 USB ports, 10/100baseT Ethernet, and an E-SATA port for external storage expansion. Video output is HDMI, component, S-Video, and composite, and audio is optical digital or RCA stereo."

Comments

Complete with

[w.p.richardson]

Product placements and popup ads!

Tivo is soooo out of bidnezz. No way can they compete with Comcast, TWC, etc.

Re:Complete with

[LeeRagans]

Finally I can get rid of the two piece of garbage Comcast DVRs. I still have to use my old series 2 tivo to guarantee that I can get a show recorded. With 2 comcast DVRs it is crap shoot as to if they actually record. I have been waiting for this.

Re:Complete with

[MindStalker]

Your kidding yourself right? Have you ever had a TiVo? They are wonderful and their userbase is extremly loyal. With the addition of easy storage expansion and digital cable these are going to sell like hotcakes.

Unfortunatly for TiVo this doesn't nessesarily mean more money as they sell their boxes fo little profit and make the money on subscription fees, meaning existing loyalties won't make them much money. On the other hand existing tivo users might be inclinded to give their tivos to friends and family and possibly pay for a few months of service long enough to get them hooked.

Re:Complete with

[w.p.richardson]

Never had a tivo, I refuse to pay the outrageous monthly fee.

I do have a mythtv box that I love to death. The price is right, and it's not larded with DRM, etc. That suits my needs.

For other people who are not so concerned, why would I go to the expense of purchasing this + subscription fee when the cable company will give me one that (as far as Joe User knows / cares) does the same thing for $3.50 per month. Tivo can not compete, they are as good as dead.

Re:Complete with

[heck]

Tivo is soooo out of bidnezz. No way can they compete with Comcast, TWC, etc.

Comcast and TiVo has a deal that starts mid-2006 to market TiVo DVRs to Comcast customers.

http://news.com.com/TiVo,+Comcast+reach+DVR+deal/2 100-1041_3-5616961.html

Re:Complete with

[Octorian]

You people just don't realize that the draw of TiVo is really their value-added stuff that even the cable-company DVRs don't have. Also, once you get used to the TiVo, you feel like you're *missing something* on other offerings.

First, TiVo *just works*, and it works well for everything it is supposed to do. No tweaking required.

Second, the cable-company DVRs don't support home networking (while MythTV would, of course), and it is very nice to have TiVos in multiple rooms, or be able to play MP3s on TiVo, transfer stuff around, or use other value-added Internet-enabled "stuff" they're constantly adding.

Third, other options only record "exactly what you tell them to", and nothing more. While this may seem ok, one gets very easily addicted to TiVo's tendency to also record things it thinks you might want to watch (and sometimes do), but havn't explicitly told it to record.

Oh, and you can also do nifty things like schedule recordings over the internet, and even check the available recording list on your TiVo remotely.

(Ok, MythTV can do some of these things, but from the demos I saw, it required far too much "tweaking" for me to feel comfortable "trusting" it to always get my shows reliably recorded, and recorded without reruns and such. I actually do also have a MythTV box, but I use it for playing computer-stored video files and running game emulators.)

Re:Complete with

[jsfetzik]

I just hope the new Comcast DVR's are basically Series 3 Tivo's with a Comcast label. Then it would be worth paying Comcast $5-$10 a month for a DVR.

Re:Complete with

[Sax Maniac]

My father-in-law has one of those. It is so terrible compared to the ReplayTV I'd almost rather not even use it. We tried to watch a recorded movie over there. Since we have kids to run after and family to visit, we tend to watch movies in chunks... 20 minutes here and there. The stupid DVR refused to remember where you last left off, so you have to FAST FORWARD back to the spot you were at.

After 4 or 5 restarts we wanted to smash the thing into little bits and pieces, Office Space style.

Re:Complete with

[MegaZone]

TiVo is porting their software to the Motorola 6412 platform, as well as a 'new' Motorola platform that hasn't been specified yet. (Perhaps one of the new DVR cable boxes they announced at CES today.)

Re:Complete with

[Anonymous Coward]

Tivo has a potentially bright future:

Tivo also has a patent lawsuit against Dish Networks that takes place in March. Some analyst are saying there is a high probability Tivo will win this one.

Tivo also sold out of product on Amazon (made it all the way up to #7 in the top 10 holiday electronics sales list.) Subscriber base is still growing.

IPTV and internet content will probably make TiVo a great convergence box for those who don't want a PC next to their TV.

Comcast is paying Tivo to port its software to the OCAP platform, where it will be able to run on half a dozen DVRs. Tivo gets a small subscriber fee and Tivo and Comcast split revenue from Tivo's advertising search service.

Re:Complete with

[MindStalker]

Agreed, this is why I have the DirecTivo which is only 5 dollars a month. Sadly DirecTV is now offering their own box and rumors are that in 2 years the TiVo boxes won't work anymore, at that time I may go with the new series 3 if I can afford it.

Re:Complete with

[minniger]

The competition from the cable companies sucks so much I don't even know where to begin. Here's a letter I wrote when I had to use a so called dvr from a cable company while moving:

+++++

To: Grande Communications - Customer Service, Marketing, Business Development, CEO
Subject: Good lord your DVR offering sucks.

I've seen some bad user interfaces over the years and the one featured on your scientific atlanta dvr is pretty much the worst i've ever seen. Where one button would suffice it forces you to use 3. Or sometimes 4. I challenge you to schedule a recording of Sponge Bob Square Pants for two days in the future. With TiVo it's trivial, with your device it is impossible. Forget about attempting to set up something equivalent to a Season Pass. Come on, are you really serious about this product? I suppose the charge to my bank account indicates that you sadly are. Has anyone in your management actually tried to use the device. Or do they all just have TiVo and assume that all DVRs are the same? If so then they are woefully out of touch.

I have to use your crappy offering since my apartment does not have a southern view. But be assured, once I move I will be resuming my DirecTV subscription and continue to use my 2 year old DirecTV dual-tuner TiVo.

+++++

Now I didn't actually send it since I was busy moving. But now... humm....

Re:Complete with

[drasfr]

I would have to agree on the statement that mythtv requires way too much tweaking...

It isn't like I am not an experienced Linux user... I have been extensively using Linux at home, then work since 1992, kernel 0.98. I use it everyday, work, home.

I do have a mythtv box, and timewarner cable HD. It is a pain. I gave up on my mythtv box, was wasting too much time on it and ended up getting the timewarner HDPVR which works okay for what it is supposed to do: recording shows. I am not a big fan of it, lacks mythtv functionnalities but hey, it records and I can play my shows.

Why do I think mythtv is a pain?

configuring it and having it to work is a major hassle. Between the special drivers for the infrared receiver/remote, the lircc, the kernel drivers, making sure the tv card works (PVR350), getting the sound in, especially I have HD, I WANT to record in HD, and AC3 sound. Well, I only got Svideo. Quality sucks. Oh, and the major pain is to be able to change channel, as it uses my only HD tuner in the place, it has to change channel via IR (which doesn't work still), and it forces me to watch what is being recorded. I live in NYC and I have no interest in recorded over the air shows and would rather be able to record anything that is playing on my HD set.

So if someone could sell me a pre-installed mythtv ready for HDTV, with HDTV tuner integrated that I can then tweak and customize, I would take it and pay for it! I love the functionnalities of Mythtv, but for what I want. It is just not ready yet.

believe me. I LOVE mythtv. I just wish I could use it as easily as the PVR I have.

Re:Complete with

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy your DirecTiVo for now, because when DirecTV goes to MPEG-4 you'll be out of luck and you will have to come crawling in my skin back to a company that supports CableCARD to get your precious TiVo.

Re:Complete with

[LazyBoy]

Never had a tivo, I refuse to pay the outrageous monthly fee.

Then don't pay it, I never did. Some friends just got a Series2 for about $40 after rebates. The lifetime subscription is $300 now, I think.

How much did you pay for your mythtv box? How much time did you put into setting it up? How much time do you put into maintaining it? Can non-geeks use it successfully? How loud is it in the living room? Does it look good in the stereo cabinet?

Tivo is the iPod of PVRs. It just works and does it so well.

Re:Complete with

[minniger]

True... Did I hear that directv's contract with tivo ends in 07? If so and they go with their own dvr that sucks as much as the typical cable co. one does then they'll lose every tivo customer they have.

Actually the main draw of the whole set up is the feature that is in the series3. Dual tuners. So if directv wants to keep my business then they'll need to keep tivo. If they don't, i'm gone.

Re:Complete with

[IdleTime]

As an avid TV user I see nothing in TiVo that would mean anything to me personally. I have an HD-DVR from Brighthouse and the only issue is that i'd love to record more than 2 shows at once while watching another channel. This is not possible, you can record 2 channels at the same time, but if you want to watch Tv at the same time, it has to be one of the channels you are recording or a previous recording. Not good enough!

And I think I'm like 99% of all TV viewers, I couldn't care less if I can not attach to a network at home or can not copy the shows to CD/DVD or similar. The movies I want to keep, I prefer to buy a DVD rather than copy the content from a DVR. In most cases, I delete a show as soon as I have watched it. Network? PC? Record to CD/DVD? Couldn't care less. 7.1 ability? Now we're talking important stuff.

Re:Complete with

[utexaspunk]

I'd LOVE to have a MythTV PVR, even if it's a pain in the ass to configure- having automatic commercial removal rocks, no ads in the program guide rocks, being able to do whatever the hell I want with the video I record rocks, but there's one thing that's holding me back- I want more HDTV content than merely what is available over the air. Until they make a card that I can put in my computer that accepts a CableCard, I'm pretty much up a creek when it comes to getting HD content from digital cable with MythTV. That means no Discovery HD theater, no ESPNHD, no InHD, no HDnet, etc, etc.

This TiVo sounds like the best solution to date- at least I'll probably be able to get the content onto my computer (although it'll likely be a little more complicated than drag-n-drop)- unlike the Scientific Atlanta HD DVR Time Warner gives us. The downside being that their interface, and the recorded programs, will likely be littered with ads, as well as any subscription fees they may charge.

Anyone know of any PCI cards with CableCard slots in them in the works? or is that something the content/cable companies have ensured will never happen?

Re:Complete with

[Anonymous Coward]

Tivo can not compete, they are as good as dead.

Hasn't there been a story on Slashdot every 4 months for the past 3 years or so regarding tivo going out of business?

Re:Complete with

[ryanvm]

Never had a tivo, I refuse to pay the outrageous monthly fee.

As a TiVo owner I have to take issue with this comment. (I know. What a surprise... :-)

The lifetime subscription fee for a TiVo is $300. How much configuration time did your Myth box take? I think it would be safe to say that over the lifetime of your Myth box you'll invest well over 16 hours of your time configuring it. $300 / 16 hours means that your time is worth less than $19 per hour.

The bottom line is that you *currently* cannot build a MythTV box that can compete with a TiVo + lifetime subscription unless you consider your time spent building and configuring it to be "free".

Now, maybe you enjoy building a Myth box and maybe you do value your time doing so at zero dollars per hour. Lord knows I could have bought a Media Center PC a long time ago with all the hours I've spent dicking around with XBMP/XBMC, but most people can't and won't want to do that. Hell, I still have to go to family members' houses to hook up their DVD players. I can't imagine telling my mother to "just build yourself a MythTV box, Mom."

My point is that maybe TiVo's subscription fee isn't quite so outrageous after all.

Re:Complete with

[Shawn Parr]

does the same thing for $3.50 per month

I wish I lived somewhere this was true. Cox charges a $14.50 per month charge for this. Both DirecTV and Dish Network are almost $5 per month for it.

If I don't have a need for digital cable, it would only cost me about $12.95 per month according to the Tivo site, and I would save $20 per month not getting the digital add-on to the normal cable (which usually has everything I really would want to watch anyway).

Sure, MythTV and/or Freevo might seem cheaper, but my time is valuable as well. I need to factor in the amount of time I will have to deal with getting them set up in a way that my Wife, and any babysitters would be able to use them without any issues. This is already a done deal with a Tivo.

Re:Complete with

[Octorian]

The only reason you don't see TiVo offering you anything interesting is because you havn't used TiVo. Heck, even TiVo's "speculative recording" is enough to get me addicted. I can't say how many times I want to watch some TV, but nothing good is on (or it's not a show-start time), and TiVo just happened to record something that was on last night when I was doing something else.

Also, I think some of the BrightHouse DVRs (not all, thankfully), can't properly "record all episodes of this show, but do not record reruns". (something TiVo calls "Season Pass", and has done correctly from day 1)

TiVo also has other value-added features I may not use as much, given the channels I watch. For example, during some commercials and/or show promos, it'll show an indicator where you can press a remote button to schedule a recording of that show, or get an additional preview/info segment.

Additionally, TiVo is always expanding their Internet-based add-ons which even include internet radio and some Yahoo! account hooks on the latest revisions.

As I recently got a trial BrightHouse DVR when I switched my cable service from Adelphia, I had to make the choice again myself. In the end, I could sum up my opinion in the following sentence:

"The BrightHouse DVR may have better hardware than the TiVo, but the TiVo has MUCH BETTER software".

With this new Series3 box, it looks like the hardware will now be fixed as well.

Re:Complete with

[onemorechip]

It's only $4.95 per month; the other $9.95 is for the receiver itself. There's another $6.50 for the digital gateway (whether or not you get high-definition). Since I don't think Cox's DVR is available with analog service, current analog subscribers are looking at about a $21 increase, which isn't worth it if they are only doing it for the DVR. But since I was already upgrading to digital in order to get high-def, the DVR was only a $4.95 adder, and it has been worth it.

Still, I'd rather buy my own and just pay the $6.50 (plus another $4.95 for Discovery's and ESPN's HD channels). So far Cox isn't allowing this but the rep I talked to indicated they will probably allow it in the future (maybe when they are forced to by legislation?). I figure I could pay up to $700 and the cost would be covered in savings on the monthly fees over about 4 years.

Re:Complete with

[onemorechip]

I agree with you on the potential value of the networking capability, but I'm not so sure about the following (when compared to cable DVRs):

First, TiVo *just works*, and it works well for everything it is supposed to do. No tweaking required.

I'm not aware of anything for the user to tweak on the cable DVRs, outside of your own programming preferences, which (because they are *your* preferences) will require tweaking anyway.

Third, other options only record "exactly what you tell them to", and nothing more. While this may seem ok, one gets very easily addicted to TiVo's tendency to also record things it thinks you might want to watch (and sometimes do), but havn't explicitly told it to record.

Here I've found my Cox-supplied DVR does quite well. I can tell it to record only new episodes of "Sunrise Earth", and to capture reruns of "Seinfeld" in a particular time slot on TBS. I can record Gary Calamar's "The Open Road" off of KCRW, since local radio stations come in over digital cable, so that it doesn't keep me up until midnight every Sunday night. I can put in keywords such as "Evolution" and have it record any program whose description contains that word. I can prioritize recordings so that when there is a conflict between three or more programs, it knows which two I would prefer to see and ignores the other(s). That's about as specific as I can possibly be when telling my cable box to "only record exactly what [I] tell [it] to", unless I wanted to go through an entire series episonde by episode and check off certain ones (I don't!).

Tivo?

[Life2Death]

Appears that I might look into tivo now, since it finally caught my interest!

Re:Tivo?

[garcia]

Because they have a Series *3* HDTV DVR? IIRC, the current generation of their HD DVRs are expensive (unless you are a new DirecTV customer and you can get them for $299). They lock you into a least a year of service now, they are not doing so well in their main market due to various bad business moves and heavy competition from Cable DVRs, and their customer service has begun to severely suck.

I had a standalone unit and due to the possiblity of commercials during fast-forward and their poor customer service (plus the fact that I got a free DirecTivo with a free year of receiver charges) I switched.

Re:Tivo?

[stecoop]

It is hard to imagine that one-day these problems will be but a memory. I hope someone really rolls out a legitimate TV over IP so not only can I watch what I want but also I can get what I want when I want it. Even with two tuners I could miss a couple of shows. Or worse, look at season of 24; if I want to watch the entire boatload in one setting I would have to keep the shows for nearly 6 months on my drive and then watch it. Yeah I could burn them to DVD or just rent the DVDs (which is what I did) but the problem still exists that I want it at a certain time so even TIVO can't quite fill the void. I rent a lot of TV shows that are on DVDs; if a TVoIP comes out like SBC and Verzion are ramping up for, then I am getting that system if it is something like a on demand system.

Re:Tivo?

[kannibal_klown]

I have a unit from Comcast. At first I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Then it started crashing left and right. Not cool. It was in a well-ventilated area, wasn't getting any power surges, it would just crash. I'm on my second one, while my aunt in California is on her 3rd or 4th.

I've bee nwaiting for this for a while. I don't mind an initial heavy cost of a new unit and a lifetime membership, so long as I don't have to worry about it crashing.

Sign me up baby!

Woo Hoo!

[kennedy]

About freakin' time TiVo!!!!

I love my series 2 and all, but honestly i've really been itching for the cable card based series 3 units since i've heard about them.

Hooray for dual tuners in a non-dtivo! hooray for easy expantion too! i just hope these badboys don't cost as much as the hd dtivos...

Re:Woo Hoo!

[Kosmatos]

About time, yes.

I use a Scientific Atlanta model 8300 which does all this already. Cost approx. $US 425.

Re:Woo Hoo!

[skeletor935]

I also have a Scientific American HD recorder cable box thingy. Mine can record two shows at once, have extra hard drives attached to it, can record and play back HD content, and it was FREE from Time Warner Cable... well, $10 bucks/month, but I'll call that the high definition cable fee.

Re:Woo Hoo!

[NickCatal]

I have the same thing.. if you go hunting around you can get the upgraded version of the HD one... I am using it with my Standard Definition TV but I get the 80Gigs of recording capacity (which is great for SD) and 2 shows at once... It's not the TiVO interface, but it's damn good...

Re:Woo Hoo!

[kb7oeb]

Cox charges $20 and $10 for digital cable. With this tivo you could record basic SD and local HD and save $30 a month. So it could be a lot cheaper in the long run. The tivo fee is $13 for one box, $7 for the second or one time $300.

Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty!

[Dark Paladin]

I have a Tivo, and while I know I could build a MythTV I like the "near idiot proof" nature of the little box so I can let my wife use it to tape her shows (American Idol) while I tape my shows (MythBusters) and our shows and then had to hunt for a USB compatible network device, all I could think was "WTF? Why not spend $10 on Ethernet?"

The other thing I'm very pleased about is the inclusion of the Cablecard option - this gives Tivo a chance to complete with cable boxes - though local Cox has let people know that while you can use the cablecard, it won't be able to get movies on demand.

Ah, and I was so hoping to see "Deuce Bigalow: European Gigalo". Somehow, I think I'll survive. WIth the ability to plug in external drives, this has seriously upset my plans to convert my spare PC into a Tivo replacement once the service on the current box runs out in October.

Of course, there's always the possibility Apple will introduce something - but if they do introduce a PVR/Media device, I'm going to expect it to have the same capabilities down to the cablecard that this new Tivo does before I consider it.

Eh - I'm patient. I have 10 months to wait and see.

It's about time!

[jmp_nyc]

As I recall, Tivo unveiled their first prototype of a cablecard enabled, HDTV capable DVR at CES 2 years ago. I would have been ready to buy such a creature at the time.

Obviously, the current model looks leaps and bounds ahead of what they originally put forth. I love the display on the front that shows what both tuners are recording. (Although no more sneaking recordings of shows my wife doesn't know I watch, and doesn't think I have time for.) However, I can't help but think that they missed out on a significant piece of the market as people have resigned themselves to using cable company provided DVRs for HDTV. It doesn't help that cablecard implementation at most cable companies is still pretty buggy, and not used widely enough to get debugged thoroughly too quickly.

My bet is that this unit will succeed or fail (and the company with it) depending on how much marketing muscle Comcast puts behind it as part of their alliance with Tivo. Of course, I'm still likely to buy one, as the HD-DVR Time Warner provides for me is horribly buggy...
-JMP

Re:It's about time!

[MegaZone]

Actually one year ago. The first time they showed a CableCARD box was CES2005. They had a very early prototype running, and at the time they said it would be out in mid-2006. They're still following the same course.

Re:It's about time!

[Ransak]

My bet is that this unit will succeed or fail (and the company with it) depending on how much marketing muscle Comcast puts behind it as part of their alliance with Tivo. I think you're forgeting something. The one huge thing Tivo has going for it is the upcoming Netflix downloads. Rent a DVD with no hassle what so ever? That's hard to say no to.

Re:It's about time!

[caudley]

No, no, no. They said *early* 2006 last year, see the press release on their site.

No these guys pitched themselves a nice easy 12 month deadline, with a working prototype and an already shipping HD unit (DirecTV), AND MISSED IT ANYWAY!!!

See my post below, these guys are dead, they just haven't figured it out yet...

Re:It's about time!

[MegaZone]

And this box has just about nothing in common with the DirecTV HD box. It also has features that weren't available in chipsets a year ago, or even a few months ago. They're using new chips to handle the advanced codecs, the same kind of chips going into HD-DVD and Blu-ray systems. I saw your other post, it shows no understanding of the current market nor the trends. TiVo isn't late at all, except perhaps for some early adopters. Go look up the numbers if you really care. The post sounded like something Sean in alt.video.ptv.tivo would post - he's been saying pretty much the same thing about TiVo dying Real Soon Now, for over two years running.

Re:It's about time!

[caudley]

They should have stuck with the chip sets that worked for the DirecTV box and put *something* on the market. They could have come out with this next better box after having a first gen HD box out a year ago.

I think too many people, including TiVo, put too much weight on the TiVo being a better box. Most consumers just don't care, at all. They'll buy Windows 3.1 over MacOS, they'll buy VHS over Beta (Beta was better picture quality if you remember). And they'll settle for CATV DVR's that don't work as well as TiVo, they've never seen TiVo. The market for DVR's is growing and will continue to grow exponentially. Six to nine months is a long time and millions more potential DVR customers will be locked up by the CATV DVRs in that time.

I'm not gleefully cheering the demise of TiVo. I've desparately wanted an HD box for almost a year now since I got an HDTV. My current TiVo is dying and I have to have a replacement. But I've become exasperated from waiting. Look, for years I was one of TiVos famous fanatic fans, but I'm tired and more and more of the loyal users like me are going to start dropping off in the coming months. TiVo dropped the ball, and there is no excuse for it.

Re:It's about time!

[kb7oeb]

Its late but I don't think its too late yet. The multistream cable card wasn't ready last year, I think they will make up for it if they release the box bug free something cable and sat can't say about their hd boxes.

Both sat and cable charge way too much for the boxes they offer, I think tivo could make a come back with this box depending on how much they charge for it.

OK

[Artie Dent]

Yes, but does it fly?

Ethernet? USB?

[penguin-collective]

It's nice that it has Ethernet, but can you do anything useful with it or will it be heavily DRM'ed?

What about the data on the USB disk--is it encrypted or is it readable and usable MPEG files?

$150 Rebate

[iamweezman]

Well that could explain the huge rebates that have been coming out lately on all their existing products. After an announcement like that most consumers would be willing to wait for the product to come to market than buy one of their existing products.

Unfortunately I decided to take advantage of the savings and try out a new Tivo system for the first time. A new product such as this though will most likely grow their userbase even more because of the ease of use created by the added features.

Re:$150 Rebate

[M.C. Hampster]

Forget the rebate. At their online store, if you prepay for a year of service ($155.40) you get $150 off any system instantly. And you can apply the $155.40 towards the lifetime subscription when you activate the product if you like.

Yeah, I bought mine this morning before seeing this story :-) I don't subscribe the any advanced cable or satellite or do HD, so these new units won't really help me much.

Does this mean a new Tivo Home Media Engine?

[us7892]

It's been fun dabbling with Tivo's HME. Getting Google Maps on my Tivo via my desktop PC, playing with newsfeeds, etc. This site has some interesting HME Apps listed, http://hme.pvrblog.com/

Now, with the new Series 3 Tivo, what will developers really be able to do with a new HME...or does Tivo have little interest in opening up more to the developer community?

Re:Does this mean a new Tivo Home Media Engine?

[MegaZone]

HME will continue to expand in capabilities incrimentally. There are a number of planned features for it, but TiVo isn't talking timeframe yet.

Re:Does this mean a new Tivo Home Media Engine?

[rackman]

My personal favorite for HME is Galleon. It crates all the normal apps with more usefull ones like controlling ToGo from the TIVO. No more must I sit at my computer to start a show copy I just tell the Tivo ToGo App and contacts the box to pull it off. Plus it runs on anything that will run java. It's a sourceforge project or was when it started! http://galleon.tv/

Broadcast flag?

[Ixne]

Does this allow you to record two HD shows at once, only to have to delete them after 90 minutes?

Re:Broadcast flag?

[Anonymous Coward]

your setting off my gaydar, matey

Re:Broadcast flag?

[Wesley Felter]

There is no broadcast flag (yet).

TiVo no longer fits my needs

[jocknerd]

I take it they still want me to pay $400 for a lifetime subscription or $14 per month? Yet, not allow me to export my recordings without using their proprietary app? No, thanks. I'll stick with my http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyet v500

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[Anonymous Coward]

$400? try $250 dumbass. and the monthly fee is $12, not $14.

Shouldn't let facts get in the way of a half-baked rant though, right?

fucking linux hippy.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[Globby]

And what proprietary app? Haven't you figured out the https server running on each TiVo series 2 yet?

-G

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[DDLKermit007]

Don't you get it? Hes never ever touched a Tivo and just bitches about things he heard from a friend who heard from a friend, etc, etc... Whereas those of us who know a little more know that we are a simple https login away from being able to download via the Tivo's built in https server. No hacks needed.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[dontEATnachos]

It costs $300 now for a lifetime subscription and $12.97 a month for the monthly one. I just got a Series2 for Christmas. I have purchased the lifetime at the moment, but I think I may have to cut it back to a monthly so that I can upgrade to the new one and not feel like I'm wasting the extra $150 I spent on service for the other one.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[Anonymous Coward]

easy cowboy

$299 for 'lifetime' (product lifetime) and $12.95 (basically $13 /month)

So the first guy was $100 off and $1 off. This is not meritous of your comments.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

And what proprietary app? Haven't you figured out the https server running on each TiVo series 2 yet?

I'm with the grandparent. Elgato devices ship with software called "EyeTV" that is about as easy to use as a Tivo, but has a lot more functionality. I've used both systems and I went with the Elgato paired with an old mac when I had to choose for a number of reasons. I like to archive shows. EyeTV exports to dozens of formats, including presets for burning to DVD and to fit on iPod Videos. It also includes a simple editor, that even my girlfriend figured out in minutes, that makes it easy to edit out commercials and anything before or after the show. Adding more storage is as easy as adding drives (internal or external) to the mac and there is no DRM. I never have to worry that the provider will decide I can't keep a a show (unlike Tivos). I can just copy my files to my laptop for trips and use any player I feel like. I can edit out pieces of them to include in my own videos, or for presentations because it is all in open formats, like mpeg-4. The remote actually has the skip ahead button working by default (and skip ahead and back are configurable). Finally, With the Elgato solution I can pick my choice of scheduling providers. Instead of paying $14 a month, I just use a free, ad banner supported service and if I'm unhappy with them I can switch, because I'm not locked into on provider.

I like a number of features of the Tivo and having it all in one box is a great feature. The UI is nice, and using it is fairly easy. I don't, however, like all the proprietary lock-ins, lack of choices, and I just don't trust the company. They have made more and more choices that seem to benefit the cable providers more than the end users. That makes sense for them, as a business, since the cable companies are their biggest customers these days. It also means I can't trust them to do what is in my best interests as an individual customer. I chose an Elgato device and have not regretted it. Several of my friends who use Tivo have expressed their jealousy for the functionality they are missing.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Hmmm, either way it is a lot more than free. Let me see, pay big money up front, or a monthly fee to be tied to a single scheduling provider, or pay nothing and go with a system that lets me use free scheduling services. Yup, it sure sounds like the parent who made a dumb choice.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[cayenne8]

"...pay big money up front..."

While I agree the lifetime sub. to the service at $299 is a bit steep, the price for the S2, 80 hr unit with rebate is about $149.

That's hardly what I'd call a 'steep upfront price'.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

While I agree the lifetime sub. to the service at $299 is a bit steep, the price for the S2, 80 hr unit with rebate is about $149.

$300+$150=$450. My personal solution is an old mac (free to me, couple hundred to someone else), Elgato 200 which was $190, and a 250gig drive I got on special for $100. I paid $290 and have about five times the storage capacity, and I can burn VCDs, and I can edit out commercials to fit 1/3 more content in the same space. Pair that with a DVD burner for more even more archiving ability and, well you get the picture. Better yet, I can upgrade mine easily with no hacks just by adding more disks. Given that I already had an old mac tower just serving a few web pages, I now have an old mac tower serving web pages, and as a PVR and multimedia server, pumping audio and video to my stereo, TV, and other computers. For people who don't have an old mac lying around, this cost analysis may be a little different, or course.

Re:TiVo no longer fits my needs

[kb7oeb]

I got the 60GB tivo for free, just paid the lifetime fee. I'm using a computer to record HD but its too complicated for others too use. If this new model has a reasonable price I will probably buy it.

Trade-in program

[Call Me Black Cloud]

That's what I hope to see...a trade-in program. I'd happily turn in my 2 Series 2 DVRs for a discount on 2 Series 3. Sure, TiVo can't reuse the parts but maybe they can sell them in 3rd world countries where even cable TV is a gift from the gods. Or since the TiVo is just a Linux box they can change the software a little to make them educational and donate them as a tax write off. Who wants a $100 laptop when you can get a TiVo plus "Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing" (though it may be difficult to master with the peanut shaped remote)?

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Malc]

I'm not quite sure what your point is. I have a series 1 Tivo (Sony unit from the year 2000). It has 100BaseT ethernet. I bought the ethernet card and plugged it in. No problems.

Incidentally - why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record? It's like music stories - with those people always seem to like to post the "artists" they like. Why? It's a waste of space.

Had a TiVo. Hated paying the monthly fee

[jocknerd]

Now I'm using Cox DVR. While the interface isn't as nice as TiVo, I have the ability to record two shows at once. Which comes in handy for my wife. And like you said, its only $3.50 month without taking up any more space.

I disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless Elgato has found a way to crack QAM encryption of most cable tv shows worth recording, then this is your own solution.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Alien Being]

Stupid moderator.

It's nice that it has Ethernet, but can you do anything useful with it or will it be heavily DRM'ed?

What about the data on the USB disk--is it encrypted or is it readable and usable MPEG files?

Great!

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Any markets support CableCard yet?

I guess its just living in Canada, which sometimes sits in the stoneage when it comes to certain technology. TIVO has never been available up here, only what the monopolies Rogers (Cable) and Bell(Phone/Satellite) see fit to offer us Canucks.

While Rogers PVR features 2 input recording and is mostly a decent device (the Acientific Atlanta Explorer 8300), I really wish for more competition in the PVR/Digital Cable box market, allowing me to select more robust solutions like DVD/HDD recorders with support for digital cable and HDTV content.

Sony was, I believe, the first to offer CableCard support in their televisions, but I think that Rogers or Bell are so far way from releasing their tight grip of control of digital cable that Canada won't see a cable card solution for at least another decade. In the meantime, some dumb Canadian is paying $1000 more for a Sony TV with a feature they will never use. We are still waiting for even a TIVO like solution where we can subscribe to a third party service for cable recording.

I hope this new Tivo product is hugely successful in the US (as I am sure it will be). Given how much US technology and television market influences Canadians, perhaps if the CRTC (Central Repression of Technology for Canadians) starts getting more complaints about the anti-competitive behaviour of Rogers and Bell and the fact TIVO has never gotten a foothold in Canada, I am sure huge success of a CableCard supported device like this new TIVO will drive Canada to adopt the technology and open up the market sooner rather then later.

In the meantime, after paing $400 for a featurless Rogers PVR and $5/mth to support PVR capabilities on the device, I guess I have to be a good Canadian and ignore my repression and apologize for my bitching.

Re:Great!

[MegaZone]

TiVo works in Canada now. The service officially added Canadian support several months ago, but the hardware doesn't have a retail presence there yet. You can import a Series2 from the US and subscribe it in Canada no problem.

Re:Great!

[doormat]

In the US, the FCC has required cable companies to suppot cablecard 1.0 as of last July. Cablecard 2.0 is required starting sometime in 2008 or 2009.

Re:Great!

[tgd]

Most do, if not all, but it sometimes takes a few calls to the cable company to get someone who a) knows they do and b) knows how to get it for you.

I've had one for over a year in my TV.

Re:Great!

[kb7oeb]

Thats why it probably will never go into Canada unless they force it, cable card is not as profitable.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[syle]

Most likely it will be exactly like the Series 2 DVRs -- You can copy recorded files from it to your computer, but need the special TiVo Player to watch them.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid poster(s). Could you please tell us exactly which USB disk you're even talking about? There's no mention of USB disks anywhere in the article. SATA, yes, but not USB.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[foxtrot]

Eh - I'm patient. I have 10 months to wait and see.

I've got even longer; I don't expect to be able to justify the cost of this monster 'til it drops down into a range slightly closer to what I paid for my current standalone unit, especially since my lifetime subscription on the standalone unit's not transferrable. (It's not that I don't yet have an HD monitor yet-- the big reason I don't is because I've been waiting for affordable HD Tivo. :) )

One of the things I love about my current Tivo is Tivo-to-go. I wonder if this new monster will support that?

-JDF

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, you just saved me some cash! I won't bother with getting a tivo if I can't use mplayer.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[BushCheney08]

Considering the pictures show the option to transcode your recordings for use on a PSP, video iPod, or Windows Media Library, I'd assume it would pump out the transcoded files via the ethernet port (wow, takes so much brainpower to figure this out). DRM'd? Possibly, but since it transcodes, not necessarily. Watermarked? Most definitely. Also, there is no USB disk.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[suprchunk]

Incidentally - why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record You know I always wondered about that too. You don't see me running around telling you what kind of toilet paper I use (Charmin) or anti-perspirant I use (Arid). Maybe there should be a study done on this kind of behavior. But I have a feeling they have no friends and are trying to make some on the net by spouting out shows that seem to be popular with all the other losers.

But does it have commercial skip?

[Goldenhawk]

But does it have commercial skip?

I've been a very satisfied owner of a DirecTV UltimateTV reciever since they first came out. About a year ago we got a Tivo for my live-in mother-in-law (since you cannot buy new UTVs anymore). We were very unhappy to discover that Tivo killed the commercial skip feature (at least, without resorting to a hack that is lost every time the power blinks). And the Tivo's maximum fast forward speed seems quite slower than the 300x UTV forward speed.

The commercial skip feature, in my opinion, makes the UTV far nicer than the Tivo. It just works, and it means I don't have to see ANY of a commercial, instead of watching some Tivo-imposed advertisement superimposed on my fastforward thru another advertisement that I also didn't want to see in the first place.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[MegaZone]

I've always used 30 second skip on my TiVos, and it works well for me. If your power blinks often enough that it is a problem resetting the toggle - you have bigger problems. Electronics don't like that - get a UPS and both problems are solved.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[DCheesi]

ReplayTV got sued to death over their commercial-skip; if UTV had lasted, I expect their skip would have gone the way of the Dodo rather than risk similar litigation (especially now that M$ is playing nice-nice with the studios).

TiVo protected itself by playing ball, which is why it's still around. Too bad about the broadcast flags, though...

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[DDLKermit007]

Tivos still ship with the comercial skip. My Series 2 has the 30 second skip and you just need to enter select, play, select, 30, select. On many Tivos you can change 30 to whatever you want (60 is nicer, but my Series 2 won't allow that sadly).

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[dotdevin]

Series2 units still have the 30 second skip. And, it rocks, if I may say.

You do have to hit Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select after your TiVo reboots due to a service update. This happens to us about 2-4 times a YEAR so it is no problem.

If you are having issues with power you should really get a UPS for your Tivo (and likely the rest of your AV equiptment). It will save you a lot of money in the long term as power dips, drops, and spikes will fry a computer rather quickly.

-D

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

FYI, commercial skip and 30 second skip ahead are not the same thing. On tries to detect commercials and auto skip them. The other skips ahead 30 seconds or whatever. Incidentally, Tivo hiding the 30 second skip as an easter egg was a major sign to me they they are more interested in what cable companies want than what end users want. Implementation of the broadcast flag and several other decisions since have convinced me to avoid their product and service.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[Anonymous Coward]

2 things:

1. The fact that they hide the 30-second skip shows just how devoted TiVo is to developing a product that meets customer needs vs. catering to the media companies. Not to mention features like Internet Show Sharing (you can send a recorded show to a friend who also has a ReplayTV via your broadband internet connection) which TiVo wouldn't even dream of implementing.

2. Commercail Skip (it's actually called Commercial Advance) is not the same thing as the 30-second skip button. Commercial Advance uses an algorythm to detect commercial breaks and play straight past them. The effect is the same as watching a DVD of a show - there's the fade-out before a commercial break, then immediately a fade-in and the show resumes, and without you having to do anything. It works surprisingly well for broadcast shows and documentaries and such, and a little less well but still reasonably so on things like syndicated sitcoms on cable.

That being said - I sure wish ReplayTV would come out with an HD box that had a port to attach additional (non-proprietary) storage and dual tuners along with their other already excellent features.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[Scyber]

ReplayTV got sued over Automatic Commercial Advance, it skipped over all of the commercials without user intervention. What the OP was talking about was a 30 second skip that would allow you to skip 30 seconds with each button press. Also, the later models (5500 series) replaced Automatic Commercial Advance with ShowNav, which just allows you to press one button to skip an entire commercial break (assuming the ReplayTV identified the commercial break correctly).

Also note that the major part of the suit against ReplayTV was their Internet Video Sharing feature. This allowed replay users to send shows to other replay users over the internet. It was slow, but it worked. It is debatable if they would have gotten sued without IVS and just ACA (Considering there were already VCRs on the market with ACA).

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[Geekenstein]

Have to disagree with this one. KEEPING the 30 second skip as even a hidden feature shows that TiVo wants to do right by their customers. The unfortunate problem here is survival. If the large and powerful content companies see this relatively small company eating into their revenue stream too much, they'll act. And act forcefully.

TiVo has a delicate balancing act between keeping their customers happy and appeasing companies with deep pockets and powerful lobbyists in Washington. Those who may just be convinced (with a well placed "campaign donation") that content needs to be protected in such a proprietary way that TiVo would be cut out of the loop.

At the same time, TiVo is trying to form alliances with these companies to have their software based devices offered to their customers, which requires making them happy.

So bravo TiVo! You kept a nice feature in your machines without pissing off the big guys. My hat's off to you.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[Kjella]

FYI, commercial skip and 30 second skip ahead are not the same thing. On tries to detect commercials and auto skip them. The other skips ahead 30 seconds or whatever. Incidentally, Tivo hiding the 30 second skip as an easter egg was a major sign to me they they are more interested in what cable companies want than what end users want. Implementation of the broadcast flag and several other decisions since have convinced me to avoid their product and service.

No, they are interested in keeping the market open to legal solutions to stay in business. Stuff like the download flag and worse are things they want to avoid, but since the FCC was going to require it they didn't exactly have much choice. MythTV isn't going to be stopped by laws bought by the cable companies, but Tivo would be. If Tivo was going out there to slaughter revenue from commercials and DVD sales, it could backfire greatly even if they provide their customers with more value in the short term.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[DDLKermit007]

Huh? DTV UTV has NO commercial skip features that your going on about so please...STFU. Only Replay boxes have ever donned that lovely feature outside of DIYs (I've owned a few UTVs & Replays). So I'll put this into simple economics for you and a small history lesson.

UTV was stillborn (partially for being late to the picnic) and mainly was bought by the crowd that hacked the HU cards since it was the DVR for "Dave" (errr I mean DTV) that did not require it to be hooked up to a phone line or network connection and the sub for UTV could be hacked as well since it was all on the HU card. I'd have my UTV still if it weren't for that scare that keeps going around that DTV will drop UTV support any day now. Plus the boxes are getting pretty old now.

Replay is debatablely superior to UTV and Tivo due to that auto commercial skip they put in and the result ended up being they had to compete with Tivo and get sued by the media conglomerates. As such they are no longer making their boxes.

Tivo however knew what'd happen if they put an auto commercial skip feature in their boxes or even a 30 second skip that would be part of their marketing (they NEVER had an auto commercial skip EVER). The result? Tivo put it as an easter egg that everyone who buys a Tivo knows about. As such Tivo hasn't been sued over it and it still alive and kicking. Hell you can even hack the Tivo quite easily and do things like remove new features (like the ads on top of ads or broadcast flags. Tivo employees "help" the community with this stuff) without much trouble. Then again...you're moaning about not having a feature your PVR doesn't, even, have.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

TiVo has a delicate balancing act between keeping their customers happy and appeasing companies with deep pockets and powerful lobbyists in Washington.

You forget to mention that those companies are their biggest customers by far. Tivo sells more units through various cable and satellite companies than to individuals. It only makes sense that they care more about what cable companies want than what end users want. You can try to justify their actions as "for a greater good" and maybe even convince yourself that you did not make what turned out to be a questionable purchase, but the truth is that Tivo is doing what is right from a business perspective, and that is not what is best from an end user perspective. My PVR does not make any of the compromises Tivo does because they only sell to individuals and they need to keep them happy. Tivo does not have to worry about making individuals happy, just their customers, the big network providers.

DRM, hidden 30 second skip, and the broadcast flag implementation are not useful features for me, the end user. No thanks Tivo, I just don't trust you.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

No, they are interested in keeping the market open to legal solutions to stay in business. Stuff like the download flag and worse are things they want to avoid, but since the FCC was going to require it they didn't exactly have much choice.

So they're raping us gently, because otherwise laws would be passed to fuck us even harder? And the fact that they have partnered with cable and satellite companies to provide most of their revenue with often crippled versions of their products has nothing to do with it. Get a clue. Tivo's customers are the cable and satellite customers who pay them to give you just enough features to not go elsewhere. The cable companies are not going to overturn the Sony Betamax decision and claiming they are is FUD. You're afraid people will pass laws to restrict your rights, so your solution is not to use most of your rights in the hopes that they won't bother. And you think giving more money to those you fear is going to help the situation. You don't know corporate America at all do you? If they can pass those laws they will, regardless of whether or not Tivo allows you to archive and export. Bending over for them will only distract them momentarily. It always amazes me how far people will go to defend their purchasing decisions and deny to themselves that they have been hoodwinked. Tivo sold you out. Deal with it.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[DrStrange66]

Incidentally, Tivo hiding the 30 second skip as an easter egg

For those wondering what that easter egg is. It's a sequence of button presses on the remote control.
SELECT PLAY SELECT 3 0 SELECT

Now the >| button will skip ahead 30 seconds.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't like the way TiVo is handling the situation, the problem isn't TiVo. The problem are the media companies TiVo has to bow and scrape to so as not to get sued completely out of existance.

Write your congressman, or better yet band together and buy a congressman, if you don't like the situation. Make it so that TiVo (or anyone else for that matter) can't get sued every other week by another media company exec on a hissy fit if they do the things you want them to be able to do.

To argue that we should boycott every company that abides by the law neatly avoids the fact that the law is the problem, not the companies themselves.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[bmcent1]

like the download flag and worse are things they want to avoid, but since the FCC was going to require it they didn't exactly have much choice

Sorry Kjella, I call BS. IIRC, the broadcast flag has been blocked -- the courts said the FCC overstepped their bounds and cannot require it.

Even had it not been blocked, the broadcast flag was going to be required on *NEW* equipment. It would not be illegal to own and use equipment from before the flag was made into law. Therefore, Tivo had complete choice. They didn't need to implement it before it was enacted by law. Nothing about the flag (had it even become law) would have required Tivo to retroactively implement it on customers equipment bought before the law was enacted.

I used to love my Tivo. I still think it is a great, GREAT, user interface. It beats the pants off my buggy Motorola STB from the cable company and also trounces MythTV in ease of setup. However, I have to agree with others here: Tivo the company has been making questionable decisions (remember pop-up ads while you fast forward?!) and is turning its back on its customers.

Re:But does it have commercial skip?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

To argue that we should boycott every company that abides by the law neatly avoids the fact that the law is the problem, not the companies themselves.

First, I argued no such thing. Second, what law are you talking about? There is no law that says PVRs must implement DRM, at all. There is no law that says you have to make it less convenient to skip commercials. There is no law that says they have to use proprietary formats, or make files difficult to transfer or burn.

If Tivo was charged or sued for any of these things, I'd be right there, writing congressmen, pissed as hell. And no don't bother with the ReplayTV example. They did violate the law by providing file sharing, policing that file sharing, and being aware that copyright infringement was occurring. There is an easy solution to that, don't police and restrict file sharing. Let your users do what they want and be responsible for it. Sorry, but unless you can show me some law that I'm completely unaware of, this is just uninformed tripe.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

though local Cox has let people know that while you can use the cablecard, it won't be able to get movies on demand.

From TFA:

The unit has two CableCARD slots on the back and it will support Multi-Stream (CableCARD 2.0) or Single-Stream (CableCARD 1.0) cards.

Now, those cards that do not support Video on Demand are the 1.0 spec cards; if you don't believe me then go ahead and crawl the damned Opencable site like I did for a whole day. And if you don't believe that, believe Wikipedia:

The new CableCARD 2.0 standard supports high definition digital cable and two way features such as Pay-Per-View, Video On Demand, and advanced electronic programming guide information.

That's what's really exciting about this box. Scientific Atlanta and Motorola watch out; people will be dumping your boxes en masse.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Darthnice]

Special like Windows Media Player? Or Media Player Classic? Or WinDVD?

With the magic of DirectShow Dump any player that can read MPEG2 can be used, and that includes burning to DVD.

DirecTV putting out cablecards?

[phildog]

I understand DirecTV is switching from Tivo to homegrown DVR stuff sometime in 2006. Does anyone know if there will be a cablecard supporting DirecTV this year? If so, I could just stick 2 DirecTV cablecards in this new tivo and not have to suffer through DirecTV's crappy DVR attempt (yes, I'm pretty confident their homegrown DVR is going to suck).

My HR10-250 is getting installed tomorrow. But I hate how DirecTV is stripping all the cool HME options from their Tivo-powered boxes. So to me this upcoming series 3 Tivo powered by DirecTV would be a killer TV product.

By the way, $600 is NOT the going price for the DirecTV HDTivo if you are a good DirecTV customer, see this thread for details on getting that price down. My cost was more like $200 after rebates and service credits. I'm fully expecting this device to be obsolete within a year, but to me it is worth it for $200.

Re:DirecTV putting out cablecards?

[BushCheney08]

I'm sure you're already aware of this, but your device will be outdated very soon. DirecTV is switching their HD content over to MPEG4, which the TiVo unit can't handle. The question is how long they'll continue delivering MPEG2 HD content...

Re:DirecTV putting out cablecards?

[phildog]

>I'm sure you're already aware of this, but your device will be outdated very soon

Yep. But wait there's more. I'm in the DC market, where DirecTV is already delivering locals in MPEG4. But the only MPEG4 receiver DirecTV offers has no DVR capabilities. So I'm stuck with an over-the-air HDTV solution for all my locals, which feed into the new HR10-250. Believe it or not I prefer this to my other HD option, Comcast, whose DVR is TERRIBLE and whose quality on most channels is much much worse than the old MPEG2 I'm currently getting from DirecTV. Comcast's HD does look nice, however.

To make things more complicated, Verizon will roll out FIOS tv in my area sometime real soon (I already have FIOS phone and internet). But guess what? The hardware FIOS TV is using down in their TX trials is the same old crappy Motorolla DVR I currently have from Comcast.

Here's what I'm counting on: DirecTV will offer the MPEG4 DVR for free or real cheap when it is available, since I just bought the HD Tivo. Or the cablecard/Tivo thing I mention above might work out. I'd shell out $500-$1000 for a full-powered Tivo w/HME connected to dual HD MPEG 4 tuners from DirecTV. I don't watch much TV, but what I do matters to me.

Man is this complicated.

Re:DirecTV putting out cablecards?

[BushCheney08]

No kidding. I'm in DC too (Cleveland Park) and just got an HDTV for xmas. In looking into upgrading to HD, nobody at DTV can tell me whether I'll get the H20 with MPEG4 locals, or if I'll get the H10 w/OTA locals. I'm currently renting a basement, so OTA is out of the question. The HDTiVo is too expensive for now, and since they're killing it off at some point soon, also out of the question. I could buy the H20 at CC or BB, but don't know whether they'll upgrade us to the 5LNB dish for MPEG4 reception. Since I can't seem to get anyone there who knows what's going on, they've essentially lost an HD upgrade customer. Fun times. Of course, I wouldn't be worrying or thinking about any of this if there was a way to use this Series 3 box with them...

Re:DirecTV putting out cablecards?

[kb7oeb]

Cable card will never work on Directv or Dish, even if they created a cable card compatible with their encryption system the cable card compatible devices don't have the hardware to tune satellite. They are also transitioning to mpeg4 while cable card only requires mpeg2.

Are people so addicted to media?

[Gothmolly]

That they will shell out $DOLLARS for one of these behemoths? So you can record the Superbowl and Desparate Housewives at the same time? So you can wire it into your home network, and have instant access to all of the DVDs and CDs that you bought and carefully ripped to your home terabyte SAN? Do people no longer read books, play Uno, or throw frisbee with their dogs? Go to neighborhood bars to watch sports games?
I don't see it. Of course the geek factor is high, so it will likely be talked up much on Slashdot and in some circles, and eventually, Joe Walmart will buy them when they have to upgrade their TVs else they fall behind, but is there really a compelling reason for this? We're SWIMMING in media these days, barraged by content, and look at the results - dumbing down of everything, even the Discovery Channel, kids with no reading or writing skills, no attention span, etc. etc.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[barfy]

Absolutely. Not because I am addicted to "media". But because I enjoy media, but it absolutely has to be on my terms. I have to be in control of when and how I watch it.
You see this as some low value item that provides little benefit to you. Don't buy one, and you now what, I don't really care. Enjoy whatever it is that you do. But as a person that enjoys his TiVo, and has for years, it is wonderful to be able to find my whatever time during a week, and the "media" that I want to watch is sitting there waiting for me, and it really didn't take too much work to make that happen. Media sucked when I had to be there at a certain time. Media sucked when I was there, there was nothing on. Media doesn't suck anymore.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[Anonymous Coward]

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[BushCheney08]

So you can record the Superbowl and Desparate Housewives at the same time?

That'd be a pretty nifty trick, since I don't believe that ABC will be broadcasting them both at the same time...

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've invested in cable, you've got a monthly charge for programs that you will almost never see since they're not broadcast when you happen to be watching. With a DVR, you easily pick what you want to watch so that you watch it *when* you want.

For me, that means during de-compression time after a long trip, or on a rainy day, or nighttime after the kids are in bed. The shows I watch are the ones I'm interested in, rather than "whatever's on" which is often lowest common denominator material during my viewing hours.

I get more value from my cable subscription, so its well worth it to me.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[gr8_phk]

"We're SWIMMING in media these days, barraged by content"

That's why some people love TiVo. Most of that media flood is crap. TiVo allows them to select what they want to see and view it when they want instead of being some kind of slave to the TV. This doesn't make TiVo the best solution.

Personally, I think people should drop cable altogether. All the local channels are broadcast in digital, and each cable company carries a different subset of them. The arguement that all the good stuff is on cable is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you'd drop cable and make the broadcasters compete (and increase their market share) they'd start picking up good shows and the quality would increase quite a bit. TiVo would not be needed to sift through it all. Best of all, people wouldn't be paying monthly for any of it.

I don't need cable to watch Desperate Housewives or the Super Bowl - both of which will be in HDTV across the nation over the air. You want to record? Get an HD3000 or Air2PC card and dump to hard drive, convert to DVD (reduced quality), use across your network, whatever. It's amazing to me that the public has decided it's normal to pay to watch TV programs that have already been paid for by advertisers.

OTOH, People pay for bottled water and complain about the price of gas. WTF?

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[Quiet_Desperation]

You do know that Discovery Channel has split into multiple channels, and all the good science stuff is still there, right? On the other ones?

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[pintpusher]

My personal experience is that we actually spend LESS time watching tv since I put together our KnoppMyth box. And the TV we watch is definitely higher quality. Instead of sitting there surfing through the channels looking for something good, I boot up the box, see what we've got, and if I've seen it all, I turn the thing off do something else. In a household where the master (my wife) lives for her shows, its very liberating to not be tied to a programming schedule. She is constantly pleased to discover that its 8:30 on a tuesday and we're still sitting around the dinner table chatting instead of scrambling to get to the TV in time to catch the show du jour. So the compelling reason is that its improved our quality of life in many ways. We spend less time watching the glowing magic box, more time with the kids or reading or whatever, and that tv time is of higher quality.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[japhmi]

That they will shell out $DOLLARS for one of these behemoths... Do people no longer read books, play Uno, or throw frisbee with their dogs? Go to neighborhood bars to watch sports games?

Or maybe that by having a DVR we can watch the shows we want while leaving more time for reading books, plaing Uno, playing with the kids, etc.

Being able to start an evening show I like an hour later (after the kids bedtimes), allows us to not try to rush things and still get everything we want to get done done.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[illumin8]

That they will shell out $DOLLARS for one of these behemoths? So you can record the Superbowl and Desparate Housewives at the same time? So you can wire it into your home network, and have instant access to all of the DVDs and CDs that you bought and carefully ripped to your home terabyte SAN? Do people no longer read books, play Uno, or throw frisbee with their dogs? Go to neighborhood bars to watch sports games?

Are you so addicted to online media that you will shell out hundreds of $DOLLARS for a motherboard, hard drive, video card, monitor, keyboard, and mouse, along with tens of $DOLLARS monthly for an internet connection just to read Slashdot? What ever happened to buying a newspaper at the newspaper stand for $0.25?

Oh yeah, I forgot, you're just a luddite troll that has a beef against the media companies. I'll admit, the media companies can be evil and greedy, but hey, you don't like TV, don't watch it. Some of us actually watch one or two shows a week and don't want to have to catch them at a specific time.

Oh, and guess what? Your precious online media outlets are usually owned by the same corporate conglomerates that run the print, TV, radio, music, and movie businesses that you hate so much.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the shows I wanted to watch were on broadcast, I wouldn't bother with cable.. but since all I watch is Discovery, History Channel (Modern Marvels rocks!), Food Network, and Comedy central, broadcast doesn't help me much, now does it? In fact, I think the programming is of much higher quality on the pay channels.. which is why I'm willing to pay for it. Duh.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[TubeSteak]

Don't forget that skipping commercials saves you time.

You lose about 15 minutes of every hour-long show to commercials and about 8 minutes from every half hour show.

That adds up when you sit down and watch a block of TV programming. Not to mention if you add it up over the course of however many tv show's your following this season.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[gr8_phk]

You're not paying specifically for the good shows. If nobody paid, there would be some nice competition on the networks. Remember, cable takes in money from both sides. I don't know how the public got so stupid. Would you really pay $50 a month to watch that stuff you listed? Or do the other 125 channels of crap influence that decision just a bit? If nobody watched cable, the networks would compete and pick up the good programming.

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[marct22]

local channels behave under different rules than cable channels. You got right-wing nutzo's who write the FCC about silly things like wardrobe malfunctions, foul language, etc. You would not get a Soprano's on CBS.

"Free" channels are regulated by the FCC because they are free. We pay for cable, even though most channels are bundled together in some kinda package.

Besides, there are only so many hours in a week you can broadcast a show across 4 channels. Would South Park even air because of some blue towel with bloodshot eyes asking "Wanna get high?" or some Howdy-Ho saying Chrismas poo with a Santa hat on? No way would the FCC let such high quality programs like South Park air on regular TV!!

Re:Are people so addicted to media?

[Gorbag]

If you'd drop cable and make the broadcasters compete (and increase their market share) they'd start picking up good shows and the quality would increase quite a bit.

No, the broadcasters would assume they're doing something right, stop competing, and you'd get more pablum. Seriously, when has reducing your choices improved quality? Do you think if Firefox and Safari go away, IE will get better? If USAns just stopped buying Japanese cars, GM would start building something decent?

And that comment gets +5 insightful? Puleeze! It has to be about the most clueless thing I've seen on /., and that's saying a lot.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, if you look at the pics in the article (there's really no excuse, they have mirrors all over the place) you'll see a screenshot of TivoToGo being used on the Series 3.

Clown alert...

[Ransak]

The color scheme for that remote has got to be the ugliest thing ever. It looks like the Ronald McDonald special edition remote.

Here's to hoping that isn't the final color scheme...

You are talking BS.

[Viewsonic]

Tivo hasn't enabled the "Tivo-imposed advertisement superimposed on my fastforward thru another advertisement that I also didn't want to see in the first place." yet, and no one knows if they even will.

And how often does your power blip out? Just punch in the code and your back with your commercial skip.

Yeah but when can we buy it?

[Luscious868]

Remeber the whole Tivo2Go fiasco last year? How long after it was announced did it take for Tivo customers to actually get access to the feature. I'm impressed by the specs but it probably won't be available for sale until 2007.

Re:Yeah but when can we buy it?

[kb7oeb]

They announced it in 2005 for mid 2006 so they aren't late yet.

Series 1

[SimonJNicholson]

I'm still stuck with my series 1 Tivo - we didn't even get the Series 2 Tivo's over here in the UK! I won't be holding my breath for these new series 3's ...

Re:Series 1

[seanyboy]

Yeah, why is it that they don't have series 3 Tivos in the UK?

Oh I remember - Because Murdoch Fucked Tivo up the ass when first dealing with a naive Tivo-UK, and now Sky are happy to hold onto the languishing rights for Tivo while they push the tied-in & inferior Sky+ onto the masses.

While they do this, they continue to collect the $20(ish) a year that Sky charge for the monthly licence. Laughing all the way to the bank, they are.

It should be illegal, what Sky did to Tivo in the UK!
If I were you, I'd get rid of your Series 1 tivo, and see if you can cope with only 10% of the normal tivo functionality as provided by the new Humax machines. Either that, or spend a lot of time or money making / buying a PC Based PVR.

My only complaint with TiVO

[British]

...is the blasted latency.

I was lucky enough to be given a TiVO(forgot the series), hacked to 80 gigs, and Ethernet,etc. While it is nice to be able to pause live tv, the only thing I didn't like was the latency with pressing buttons on the cable box.

You try to punch in 040 and you get 0 4 2 seconds later showing up on the TV. I would say 60% of my channel changes were unsuccesful due to the cable box's timeouts. I thought the batteries were bad in my remote control. So I bypassed the tivo entirely, and it switched channels just fine, nice & fast.

Is there a way to turn off "pausable tv" and just push the video straight through? I can live without it. I just wish when I did a plain(ie not scheduled) recording it didn't stop after a half hour. BTW I have no tiVo service. Just using it as a VCR.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[DCheesi]

It sounds like you don't have the TiVo set up very well. In most cases there are multiple versions of the same cable-control profile for a given cable box, which differ by command speed. Sounds like you picked the slowest option without trying the faster ones? The idea is to get the one that's fast enough to tolerate (and get all the digits in), but slow enough that the box doesn't miss any digits.

Of course some cable boxes are better supported than others, or simply interoperate more/less reliably; so YMMV.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[ddstreet]

Have you properly shielded your cable box's IR receiver? If your Tivo remote is IR-interfering with the signal that the Tivo sends (via its IR dongle) then channel changing will be mostly unsuccessful. If you read the Tivo instruction manual it shows how to block the cable box's IR receiver so it only gets the Tivo-dongle IR signal, not the secondary conflicting signal from your Tivo remote. Basically just put something opaque in front of the cable box's IR receiver and Tivo IR dongle.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[Zathrus]

Is there a way to turn off "pausable tv" and just push the video straight through?

No, and it wouldn't do you any good anyway. What you're complaining about is having to use the IR blasters to change channels on a cable box. If you only have analog cable (or OTA) then there's no need for a cable box and TiVo will tune using it's internal tuners -- just as fast as your TV or cable box.

This version will also be just as fast, because it won't have to wait for the external tuner either.

You can also fiddle with the settings (in the UI) to change how quickly it sends IR commands out through the blasters. There are 3 settings -- slow, medium, and fast. The faster settings tend to run into problems if the IR blasters aren't well aligned, or there is a lot of noise in the environment -- many people have had success in constructing blackout boxes around the IR receiver to fix both issues. Fast is pretty fast.

The other fix is to get a cable box that can accept serial commands -- some of the Motorola boxes will work, but it also depends on if your cable company has it enabled or not. Of course, this software was only available in more recent versions of the software and not to S1 TiVos at all. My guess is you don't have that software. The S1 TiVos can control some DirecTV receivers (such as the RCA models I use).

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[British]

Well, actually I'm surfing channels with the cable box remote & cable channels, not via the TiVO. The TiVO is just going through channel 3, so channel surfing on that wouldn't take me very far.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[djbrums]

If it is a series 1, the problem is you don't have enough memory. We had the same problem with our dtivo. We added a cachecard and 1gb memory from: http://www.9thtee.com/tivocachecard.htm and everything is now spiffy.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[Eric Sharkey]

Is there a way to turn off "pausable tv" and just push the video straight through?

If you're using the RF output, then yes.

You Ask, We Answer
Q. Our friend Jim (alongside many others out there in Newsletter-land)
wrote to ask, "What is the benefit/purpose of the 'Standby' feature
in TiVo?"

A. Remember that the TiVo DVR does not have an on/off switch; it
can't, because it must remain on at all times in order to record
your favorite shows. In Standby mode, your DVR remains "on"--it
still records programs you have requested--but its outputs (with the
exception of the RF Out, explained below) are turned "off." Because
the DVR is still on, you may still hear the hard disk spinning, but
because it's in Standby mode all the lights on its front will stay
off.

If you have cable without a box, and you have used an RF coaxial
cable to connect your cable television signal to the DVR and to
connect the DVR to the TV, standby mode provides RF pass through.
This means you can watch live TV from your cable provider while the
DVR is in standby mode. In Standby mode, the RF Out jack on the back
of the DVR just passes through whatever signal comes through the RF
In jack, without altering it in any way. You can use your TV remote
to change channels, and can watch one channel live, while your TiVo
DVR is recording a second channel. Just remember, you won't have
TiVo functionality to pause, rewind, and fast forward live TV on the
live TV channel.

To put your DVR into Standby mode, go to TiVo Central by pressing the
TiVo button on your remote control. Highlight Messages & Setup and
press SELECT; then Standby.

To exit Standby mode, press either the TiVo button or the LIVE TV
button. If you own a Sony DVR, press the POWER button to exit
Standby mode.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[jgordon7]

Well this is the downside to most DVRs and more so if you have to connect to an settop box like digital cable or sat.

The delay becomes a non-issue once you become fully addicted to TIVO since you will never want to watch live TV. I hate channel surfers.

However things to make the blasters work better is to build a fort around them and the ir receiver on the set top box. I just wrap the whole thing in electrical tape. You need to make sure the IR is aligned with the reciever well too, and make sure you have the timings set right.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[ddstreet]

Ah, you mean the 1-second delay. You know, you are really wasting your money by just using the Tivo as a VCR. You should try the service, I think you don't know what you're missing.

Anyway, if you want to bypass the Tivo's buffered recording (i.e. watch TV directly without rewind capability), just watch TV directly. You can get a cable splitter, split the signal coming out of your cable box, and assuming your TV has at least 2 inputs just connect Tivo to one input and your box output to the other. Switch to Tivo only when you want to setup a recording or watch a recorded show.

Although, what I would recommend (besides actually getting service for your Tivo!) is using the Tivo's IR dongle to manage your cable box. Then use the Tivo's remote control to change channels.

I think you are not informed at all on what your Tivo is capable of. You should read the user's guide! If you don't have one, I think you might be able to download them from tivo.com, or at least read some of the FAQ or documentation on tivo.com.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you're aware that almost all RF modulators (the thingies that let you watch video on channel 3 or 4) in TiVos and VCRs do not output stereo sound. If you're using the RF output on one of these, you're likely listening in mono.

Re:My only complaint with TiVO

[Phrogz]

"... If you only have analog cable (or OTA) then there's no need for a cable box and TiVo will tune using it's internal tuners -- just as fast as your TV or cable box. ..."

I'm sure it's faster than the horribly slow speed the OP was describing, but what you've written is not true. My TV's tuner changes channels blazingly fast. Holding down the up-channel button initially changes at about 1 channel per second, and then speeds up to perhaps 3-4 channels per second. And that initial 1 second per channel is an instant change to the channel, followed by 1 second of watching the channel before moving on to the next.

Contrast this with my series 2 Tivo on analog cable. Pressing up channel pauses 1-2 seconds before I can even start seeing the new channel. It's really, really frustrating, coming from high-performance channel surfing.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[halr9000]

You insensitive clod, I use Secret.

My new HDTV

[tacokill]

I just took the plunge to HDTV the other day. In setting all this up, I would like to pass along what I have learned thus far. It has been an interesting trip, to say the least and I have learned that there is a LOT of hype around HDTV that is probably not quite warranted yet.

I subscribe to basic extended analog cable. I get locals plus standard cable content (Comedy central, lifetime, etc). No premium channels. I have this cable feed running through my Series 1 Tivo and from the Tivo, into my A/V receiver - which outputs the picture only to my TV. In this mode, the TV is essentially a monitor.

I also have a PC w/ Meedio hooked up to this. I used to use the S-video to an old analog TV and that worked ok. Once I hooked it up to my HDTV (TV has PC/VGA in), words can not describe how much of an improvement that makes. The PC has a Soundblaster Live! on it and digital optical out to the A/V receiver....more on that piece later.

The 3rd device I have is a DVD player (Philips DVP-642). Audio is coax digital. Video is components. Both Audio and video feed into my A/V receiver. My receiver has components in and out to the HDTV.


Now that you have an idea of the setup I use, let me lay out some issues I have run into that the Tivo3 may simplify.

1. Of all the devices I have hooked up, my PC w/ Meedio looks the best. And so do all of my downloaded movies and shows. Most of the rips I have are in HDTV and that seems to be the standard nowadays. Why is this important? Because the old "downloaded videos sacrifice quality" no longer holds true. It may not be as good as upscaled DVD's but it is MORE than reasonable.

2. My soundcard sucks. The optical out only outputs stereo sound. I think it will pass through Dolby and DTS but who cares -- that's what my DVD is for. THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL IF YOU WANT SURROUND SOUND out of your PC. Get a card that can output 5.1 on the fly. As I understand it, most Creative products ONLY output stereo through the digital out. (note: they may "pass thru" DTS/DD but that is different). I wound up ordering a Turtle Beach Montego. Haven't set it up yet.

3. There is very limited HDTV content available. Over-the-Air (antennas), I can pick up all the major networks. Another alternative is to go w/ DirecTV -- but if you subscribe to them, you only get about 2-3 extra channels (I don't count preview channels, etc) more than an antenna. For Dish, its a little bit better -- you get about 4-5 extra channels. Same with Cable. The Point: Each of the above costs an extra $10-$15/mo. And for that, you get at most, 4-5 extra "real" channels that you couldn't get by just sticking an antenna behind your TV.

4. I just ordered a CableCard from my provider (Cox). This allows me to keep my standard "analog" cable that feeds my Tivo while at the same time, allowing me to view the 5-8 HDTV channels that are available. If I had a Tivo3, I could just slap that card into my Tivo3 instead of using my Tivo 1 (for analog) + HDTV tuner on TV set. The Tivo 3 will record whatever you throw at it (HDTV, standard digital, analog, etc) in one nice, neat, little box.


I hope this is helpful to people. There is a lot to think about on how to set things up and these are the major issues that I ran into. I think the biggest disappointment I see is the lack of HDTV content. Just go look at the HD offerings from Dish or DirecTV and you will see that it is very minimal. Perhaps that will change with time but I definitely have that "pay more for less" feeling with respect to my cable/sat bill.

So, if you want to record HDTV, you have the following options:
a) Build a PC w/ HDTV card and use an antenna (unless your HDTV capture card supports CableCard)
b) Build a PC w/ HDTV capture card and use the cable company's Cable box to tune. Note: consider the remote control implications if you choose this. Changing channels = change channels on Cable box.
c) Use the cable companies HDTV DVR (@ $15/mo from Cox. YMMV)
d) USE A TIVO3 w/ CableCard (simplest, easiest, hopefully cheapest)


Hope this helps others who decide to take the plunge.

Re:My new HDTV

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, you can also use a card or cable box that uses QAM. It will enable you to watch the HD channels without cablecard, without a cable box, and without digital cable.

Re:My new HDTV

[pfunkmallone]

Only in some markets. In my Cox market no unencrypted HD signals are available. All have been hidden under the shield of encryption.

FWIW, QAM tuners only allow you to view *digital* signals over your cable. However, without a cablecard, you can only watch the *unencrypted* digital channels (the cablecard is essentially a decryption card). Having a QAM tuner does not guarantee that you will be able to "see" anything...if the provider encrypts everything. For me, the only channels that are unencrypted on Cox are those stupid music channels (no, not mtv) and 2 local broadcast channels (neither has updated their equipment to HDTV yet). The other broadcast channels that DO transmit in HDTV are encrypted on Cox.

Personally, I use my ATSC tuner to grab the digital broadcasts off an antenna. Moving to the cablecard would only give me 3 more channels (inHD, UniversalHD, DiscoveryHD) but I'd have to pay $15 more per month.

Re:My new HDTV

[Zach978]

You aren't watching enough HD. Almost all national sports (and lots of local sports here) are in HD. I have HBO/Showtime HD, INHD1/2, HDNET1/2, Discovery HD, ESPN HD, all the HD PBSes, and all the local HD stations (almost all of primtime is HD now)....

I have an HD PVR through TWC (extra $6/month, if it breaks it's not my problem). HDTV sucks if you aren't watching HD signal (rips from the internet don't count!)

Most of my favorite shows, and most of the sports I watch is all HD, so it's definately worth it for me!

Re:My new HDTV

[LandKurt]

Once you're used to digitally recording TV with a TiVo or other PVR it can be frustrating to move to HDTV since the recording options are very limited. But you missed at least one option in your list. I use a DirecTV HD TiVo recorder. I don't bother to subscribe to DirecTV's HD programming, I just use the box to record terrestrial network broadcast HDTV. I record non network channels like SCIFI and Discovery off the satellite in standard definition. It was an expensive solution, especially when I got it in 2004, but most HD setups end up being costly.

Re:My new HDTV

[pfunkmallone]

Nice post. Summarizes my findings as well. My HDTV is about 3 months old, so I've just gone through the same learning experience as you. Until COX delivers more (and better) HDTV content, I'm content with my OTA antenna. Primetime is heavily HDTV on the broadcast channels now...and most big "events" like the Olympics, all football games, etc. That'll hold me off until the cost/benefit of Cox gets more in-line.

Just one question:
QUOTE: "Most of the rips I have are in HDTV...It may not be as good as upscaled DVD's"

If it really is HDTV, it's 720p or 1080i. DVDs at most are 480p (aka EDTV). How could an upconverted DVD look better than native HD content?

Re:My new HDTV

[Prothonotar]

I find myself watching those "4-5 extra HD channels" more and more. I'm not that much into sports, but INHD2 is great (IMAX movies every Wed. at 8pm ;), and I watch HBO series all the time (Rome is unbelievable in HD). With more HD channels in the pipeline and Blu-ray (and/or HD-DVD) on the way, the future is only looking brighter.

Re:My new HDTV

[Best ID Ever!]

I have an HD PVR through TWC (extra $6/month, if it breaks it's not my problem).

This is the biggest single reason not to get TiVo IMHO. In the 2 years I've had TimeWarner's DVR I've had 2 hard drive failures and I've upgraded to the HD DVR. 3 new boxes, and I'm still paying just $6/month.

Re:My new HDTV

[tacokill]

Well, it is a subjective call, to be sure. An upconverted DVD looks better than my rips simply because most of my rips are encoded in DiVX or XViD. I supposed if you ripped HDTV into full MPEG-2, it would look MUCH better than a standard DVD.

But you are, technically, correct with your comment. DVD's are, at best, 480p but having seen several "upconversions", it is my opinion that this time around, upconverting might be worth it. And yes, I know you are "adding" to the content coming off the DVD -- and that is usually a bad thing. However, it works in this case.

Re:My new HDTV

[tacokill]

FYI, my Cox cablecard costs me an extra $8 a month. Including all fees, etc. $8.16 to be exact. $15 for HDTV PVR + PVR "service". $10 for HDTV Cable box only.

Re:My new HDTV

[tacokill]

Ok, so perhaps I am not watching enough HDTV.

However, I would like to point out that - of the channels you listed - almost all are available over the Air. In HDTV. NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, UPN, Fox, and a few others all broadcast HDTV over-the-air in my area.

The ones that don't do OTA, can be had over cable (like you). They are: ESPNHD, Discovery HD, INHD 1/2, HDNET 1/2. Now, I don't know what is on the INHD and HDNET channels but from what I have seen at others houses, its lots of "promo" type stuff and travel related docu's.

So if those 6 channels are worth extra $$$ to you, then by all means, get HD Cable and be done with it. I just have a hard time paying $10-$15 extra per month for 2 "real" channels and 4 "promo" channels.

The point of my original post was that I am amazed at how little HDTV programming is actually available. Given that we have delved into discussing HDNET and INHD, I think I made my point. After all, we aren't talking about Spike, TNT, TBS, or CNN. And of course, you can always pay the big bux and get Showtime, HBO, etc.

Re:My new HDTV

[Stuntmonkey]

> So, if you want to record HDTV, you have the following options:

You are missing some of the options. Just because Tivo is about 1.5 years too late doesn't mean other companies were too.

I got an HDTV about 4 months ago. I receive about 30 digital OTA channels at my house (Sunnyvale, California), and decided I didn't want to pay for cable or satellite given the small number of additional HD channels they offer (1 or 2 that I would ever watch). I was also a Tivo Series1 owner and am absolutely addicted to a DVR. So I wanted an HD DVR that would work OTA-only.

There are a few such boxes; I ended up paying a little over $700 for the Sony DHG-HDD500. The program guide info streams over the air, so you don't need a telephone or net connection at your TV. It has a nice 500 gigs of storage (they make a 250 gig version too), but just one tuner unfortunately. HDMI/DVI/component/etc. outputs to your set. The big downside is the software. I was spoiled by Tivo, and the crappy UI on this thing breaks every interface guideline known to man. I would love to get my hands on the source code. But it does the job.

I thought about building my own media PC, but can't see doing it for anything close to $700 once the tuner card and fat disk are included. Of course, you can do a lot more with a PC, like play downloaded content and have an interface that doesn't suck.

Re:My new HDTV

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, as of Feb. 1st, Dish is offering the following...

Discovery HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
TNT HD
Universal HD
HDNet (Not a promo channel -- this is Marc Cuban's HD venture. Various programming.)
HDNet Movies
Fifteen VOOM HD original channels (various stuff -- movies, art, fashion, sports, documentaries, news, etc). Quite a few repeats on these.

There is also a shared channel that they use for various stuff (HD PPV, NFL-HD, NBA-HD, HD-Events).

Plus Showtime HD and HBO HD with subscriptions to those services, and HD locals as the rollout begins ("soon" in top 25 DMAs).

So... I count 20+, if you're willing to pay the premium, and more to come as locals roll out.

Re:My new HDTV

[Zach978]

HDNET and INHD can be pretty repetitive, but they do also have NHL Hockey, MLB Baseball, NBA Basketball and lots of IMAX movies. HD might be better for me because half the programming I watch is sports ;)

Re:My new HDTV

[pfunkmallone]

Just out of curiousity...what are you using to upconvert? I too have a Phillips DVP642, but it's my Toshiba HDTV (57h94) that does the upconversion to 720p or 1080i (depending on a setting on the TV). It looks great...but I still see room for improvement. I haven't had an opportunity to see one of the nicer upconverting Toshiba (or other) DVD players.

Re:My new HDTV

[pfunkmallone]

FWIW, since I have extended basic (ie. Analog) cable, If I understand this correctly, I'd need to get the cablecard ($3/month), plus digital cable which would be $12/month extra.

Makes my head hurt ;-)

Re:My new HDTV

[kb7oeb]

Thats odd, here in phoenix cox has all local hd channels are in the clear. The cool thing about this new tivo is it appears to allow simultaneous cable and antenna connections.

Re:My new HDTV

[tacokill]

No, you dont have to get digital cable to use the CableCard. I kept my analog extended and just added a cablecard for the HDTV channels. Net cost $8/mo additional. The install guy comes out this morning so I will followup if I learn anything nes.

Re:My new HDTV

[ssstraub]

That's fine if you can tolerate TimeWarner's horrific software.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Zathrus]

I have a series 1 Tivo (Sony unit from the year 2000). It has 100BaseT ethernet. I bought the ethernet card and plugged it in.

I had a couple of Series 1 boxes too, and bought the ethernet cards as well.

They're 3rd party accessories that were hacked onto the proprietary expansion slot inside S1 TiVos. There is no such expansion slot on the S2s, and I doubt there is on the S3s. They cost $70 vs ~$10 for a USB adapter and aren't trivial to install (not horribly difficult, but if you're not comfy opening your computer and replacing parts then stay far, far away from opening up TiVos). The last software release on a S1 TiVo was a couple years ago, so you cannot get any of the latest features -- there are hacks available to replace some of those features (and add others), but those hacks are available on the S2s now as well -- plus you get a vastly faster unit and the updated software.

That's what the point is.

I very much agree with the OP -- it's about time they added an ethernet jack. Having to use a USB dongle was silly. It's good that they kept the USB ports though, since a lot of people will want wireless.

You SUCK!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh sure....I haven't even had my brand spankin' new Series 2 Tivo DVR for 2 damn weeks, then you have to go announcing version 3.

Re:You SUCK!!!!

[dmorel]

PSSST... they announced it at LAST YEARS CES.
Not Kidding

-dm

Re:You SUCK!!!!

[gmb61]

Not to mention the fact the the Series2 is now like 4 years old. I can understand being upset if the Series2 had just come out six months ago, but the Series3 is long, long overdue.

Wait and see.

[Anonymous Coward]

The DealDatabase guys will get one of these, and they'll see if (actually to what extent) it can be hacked to turn off the DRM and enable file extraction/networking. Then we'll know. Don't buy one until then, if those things are important to you...

Monthly fee is what keeps Tivo great.

[Viewsonic]

The subscription data compared to your Cox DVR is heads and tails above it. I suppose some people might not care for all the extra details that Tivo provides in their guide data, but this is the major selling point for me from Tivo. I have paid well over double the lifetime fee it would have cost me on both my Tivos, but I keep the subscriptions going simply because I appreciate their guide data being so well done. And i'll keep doing such in the future.

Re:Monthly fee is what keeps Tivo great.

[onemorechip]

I've never had Tivo. Could you provide an example of program information you get, that the cable companies' DVR service doesn't provide?

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[IANAAC]

Stupid moderator.

Relax. It was only one moderator, and as you can now see, someone usually comes along and moderates things back up.

Just repeating the post verbatim dosen't help the moderation process.

Galleon is even better than Tivo2Go

[Bruzer]

I thought Tivo2Go was cool until I found this source forge project Galleon. It can do everything the Tivo2Go program can do and more. Which means it can transfer video to your PC, play mp3s, view photos from your PC!

One of the key features it has is the ability to put shows BACK on your Tivo. But that feature doesn't impress my friends as much as the email viewer, the movie listings, and the weather forecasts. I realize that MythTV has some of these features, but this improves the fun you can have with Tivo.

I am sure the slashdot crew could find even more interesting uses for this application (RSS feeds). And since the application supports plugins you can write you own Tivo apps.

I also appreciate that Tivo ALLOWS this kind of things on their box. They could be all "closed source" and shut programs like this down. They hold Tivo Developer Challenges to find more useful ways to use the Tivo. They know when people have hacked their Tivo and added a larger hard drive but choose not to shut them down.

I can't stress it enough. If you have Tivo, and you have a computer take a look at Galleon.

Re:Galleon is even better than Tivo2Go

[jcorno]

I put shows on my Tivo all the time. They put out the feature in a software update a few months ago. At the bottom of "Now Playing" it has my computer, and I can transfer files from a folder in "My Documents" (I think it's "My Tivo Files," or something like that). They just have to be in MPEG-2 format, which the .tivo files already are. You can even watch them as they're transferring.

Requirements and accoutrements

[bobpence]

Two questions:

(1) Does it still require a landline telephone connection? I have a cable modem for Net access, useful for remote programming, but like many others have dropped the (otherwise) unnecessary landline.

(2) Does it offer, either plainly or through a simple hack, the 30-second commercial skip? The DVR from my cable company allows dual recording while I'm watching another recording, so foregoing the 30-second commercial skip seemed a small cost.

But if the Series 3 drops the landline requirement and offers the commercial skip, as well as records two programs as noted in the posting, it might make sense to get when I upgrade to HDTV.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[mark0]

Even the series 2 machines don't require a landline anymore. 7.2.1 has broadband setup now. Some with older software were still in the pipeline during the holiday season, but many folk got TiVos with the new software on it.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[raygundan]

They haven't required a landline since Series 2, and all the previous tivo iterations, including the directv model, have included a short remote-control code to enable 30-second skip.

And to head off the question, yes, even the initial setup on a Series 2 can be done via broadband, but only with *supported* USB ethernet adapters. Wireless can't be enabled until after setup, at least with v3.2. I think v4.0 of the software supports more adapters out-of-the-box, so it depends a little bit on which version you get in the package.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[StingRayGun]

Yeah right. I just purchased one a few months ago. Had to take it back cause I needed a phone line to upgrade the system in order to have it connect to my wifi network. So, I needed to have a phone line to upgrade cause I diddn't have a phone line.

Pathetic. Issues like this are why Tivi has a VERY short lifespan. I would rather own OSDN stock!

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[MegaZone]

He's still correct. All TiVos manufsctured starting a couple of months ago have 7.2 or higher, and that supports network Guided Setup out of the box. No POTS required, ever. You just got a box manufactured before the switchover. It takes time for the retail channel to flush.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[mark0]

This is not true anymore. Series 2 boxes are now shipping with version 7.2.1, which will do broadband setup with any supported wired or wireless adapter.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[jcnnghm]

If you happen to be using a cable company supplied dual-tuner HD capable DVR from Motorola (Comcast uses these), the 30-second skip hack takes about 30 seconds to set up. Your description sounds like the Motorola DVR that I have.

Re:Requirements and accoutrements

[vondo]

Yup, I have the same DVR. $10/month for HD signal, equipment, service (programming data), and warranty (if it breaks, I return it) was too good to pass up. I've never owned a Tivo, but a friend had it. The Comcast interface is not as nice, but it is good enough. Connect the firewire output to a computer, and I can even "download" the odd show that I need to. Tivo just seems to be a day late and a dollar short here.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Fishstick]

No, you can watch them with WMP, but you supposedly need Sonic MyDVD to burn them . As someone else pointed out, you can use freely available utilities to "unwrap" the .tivo files into straight mpeg that you can then do with as you please.

Maybe you are thinking of TiVo Desktop -- the app they provide to let you download the shows from your TiVo? You don't even really need this (though it is nice), you can download through your browser if you find out the url.

<i><url:http://bryan.daneman.org/default.aspx?cate goryID=85>

TiVoToGo Webserver Url's
Here are some of the known Url's for accessing content on your TiVo. (This only applies to TiVo's with the TiVoToGo update.):
https://<TIVO-IP-ADDR>/nowplaying/index.html (username:tivo password:<your media access key>)
http://<TIVO-IP-ADDR>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryCon tainer
https://<TIVO-IP-ADDR>/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryCo ntainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying
</i>

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Zathrus]

t's nice that it has Ethernet, but can you do anything useful with it or will it be heavily DRM'ed?

With current S2 TiVos you can do quite a bit with the ethernet -- play MP3s, slideshows, get weather/traffic/movie times and tickets/etc (the interface is open and extensible), transfer recordings to a PC and back (PC includes Windows, Mac, and Linux; although for the latter two you probably need to run Galleon), transfer MPEG2 video to the TiVo (and maybe MPEG4/H.264 w/ the Series3? It's not clear yet), and various other stuff.

As far as the video that's exported goes -- it's in a ".tivo" format which is a loosely containered MPEG2 video. It's completely trivial to strip off the outer layer and get to the real data beneath it. And it looks like the new TiVo Desktop software will even offer transcoding to a number of alternate (DRM'd) formats as well. But really, it's a joke to take off the TiVo DRM, or to just play it from a standard MPEG2 capable video player (it's designed to allow you to do that). Yes, you can play it in mplayer.

What about the data on the USB disk--is it encrypted or is it readable and usable MPEG files?

It's SATA, not USB, but that's a minor nit. The data is not in straight MPEG files -- it's on TiVo's proprietary FS. That was figured out long ago. But if you can simply download the stream to your PC, there's little reason to futz around with the drive -- especially since you cannot be assured that the entire video is stored on the external drive (it may be, but it may also cross drives; the article states this).

GB-PVR

[Timberwolf0122]

The thing I love about my homebrew system is itcan be upgraded with a new HD PVR card when HD finaly get to the UK there is also the added advantage that it is very easy to add another drive to increase the storage plus i can listen to internet Radio and watch Movies in glorious 7.1 THX certified sound with no monthly fee!

I would of expected only the lazyiest slashdotter to have not built their own PVR!

Re:GB-PVR

[Zed2K]

Hate to burst your bubble but you realize THX is not an encoding process but a list of specifications on volume and speaker location. Did you spend the time to adjust all your speakers and sound levels and room dampening to match the THX spec? If not then you aren't listening to anything in "glorious 7.1 THX certified sound". And there aren't even any dvd's that are in 7.1 sound so basically your sound card is guessing to fill in the extra channels. Nothing really to be bragging about.

I would of expected only the lazyiest of slashdotter to not have researched what equipment they actually own.

Re:GB-PVR

[danielobvt]

You sorely underestimate the lazyness of the average /.er.......

Re:GB-PVR

[Timberwolf0122]

Okay I didn't dampen the room but I did spend 45 minutes adjusting the speakers (it envolved a protractor and a frikken laser and some string). The extra 2 channels that are filled is a valid point but atleast im future proof (as much as anyone can be) PS That was a good comeback. Verily I salute thee sire, you and your merry band of ner-do wells!

I can't wait for those to be available

[assantisz]

Right now I am using TWC's DVR box and it sucks donkey arse. The user experience is horrible. The only good thing about the Explorer 8x00s is the dual tuner and the price ($8.95/month). Now with those babies coming out from Tivo I will ditch the DVR in a heart beat.

My dream setup: two CableCARDs into a Series 3 Tivo, and one simple non-DVR box from Time Warner. That way I can keep my OnDemand stuff and I can record two channels at the same time on Tivo. I wonder, though, how much I will pay TWC for triplicating the service for me. The CableCARDs are $1.75/piece/month (here in NYC).

Re:I can't wait for those to be available

[skofarrell]

Cable Card 2.0 will support ondemand, and should be available by the time the series 3 tivo is available...

Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Yeechang Lee]

This thread proves once again that Slashdot needs a (-1, Cheapskate that won't ever buy anything their mommies don't give them the money for, but will whine endlessly for it to be free anyway) rating.

Ahem. I bought a Series 1 TiVo box in June 2000, later upgraded it myself to 200GB (the absolute most space available at the time), and happily bought a lifetime subscription. (The sort of idiots here who whine and complain about the horrible, awful TiVo subscription fee has always been around and always will; please ignore them.) However, five years later my box sits in the closet. In part it's because a drive died, but it's mostly because, yes, I built a MythTV box.

I *didn't* built a MythTV box because of:

* The subscription fee. See above. I always felt I got way more than my money's worth from TiVo; heck, were I to sell my box on eBay it'd still be worth a few hundred dollars due to the lifetime subscription.
* A desire to export TiVo recordings to elsewhere. I never quite understood the fascination people had and have with decrypting TiVo's file system and exporting programs to elsewhere. If anything I wanted my TiVo to act as the portal through which I could view my video library.

I built a MythTV box because I wanted to:

* Bring programs *into* the box, not out of it. MythTV lets me view all my videos and DVD images in a nice, neat, format that resembles the directory hierarchy they are stored in.
* Record HDTV programs. Thanks to two cable boxes and two FireWire cables, I can today record two HD programs simultaneously.
* Have plenty of storage space. MPEG-2 HD programs take 7GB/hour. about 10 times more than TiVo's about 700MB/GB on the lowest-quality standard. With MythTV I can use NFS (or, in my case due to mysterious performance issues, Samba) to put all the recordings I want on my 2.8TB RAID 5 array. From the description it sounds like the Series 3 TiVo will have an Ethernet jack, but a) it's likely to be 100Mbps--likely to be problematic in real-life conditions when recording two HD programs and watching a third at the same time--and b) who knows what type of external storage the box will ever support in practice.

That's it. No, I really don't care about MythTV's themability (Why, oh why, do people focus on themes in free software so much? Don't they realize that 99% of them look eye-meltingly awful--Kids, raytracing is, like, *so* 1995--and don't do a thing to fix any underlying usability issues with the application?), MythWeather, MythGame, MythPhone, etc., etc. Hey, they're nice, but I'd give them up in a flash to fix the last niggling bugs in mythfrontend (Geez, folks, what *is* up with the "displaying OSD in some recordings consistently crashes mythfrontend" bug in 0.18.1? Linus used to call such issues "brown bag" bugs, as in bugs in Linux kernel releases so showstoppingly bad he wanted to wear a brown bag for letting it loose into the world.) and the annoyances (some pretty colossal) in MythVideo's Video Manager module. If TiVo Series 3 manages to robustly support external filesystems (I have *no* problems with some sort of encryption scheme here) *and* let me view my preexisting videos through the elegant TiVo interface, I'm there. (Especially if TiVo kindly offers us longtime lifetime-subscription owners free upgrades.) I am, however, not waiting for these things to occur; there's TV to watch, and record, today.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

* The subscription fee. See above. I always felt I got way more than my money's worth from TiVo; heck, were I to sell my box on eBay it'd still be worth a few hundred dollars due to the lifetime subscription.

I don't like subscriptions, but even more than that I don't like being locked into a single service provider. What if, in two years, the scheduling on the Tivo service is always wrong, or the prices raise outrageously. Having the choice to switch providers is a big plus for me. Right now I use a free, web based service with my PVR.

* A desire to export TiVo recordings to elsewhere. I never quite understood the fascination people had and have with decrypting TiVo's file system and exporting programs to elsewhere. If anything I wanted my TiVo to act as the portal through which I could view my video library.

I do use this feature a lot. I like to archive my favorite shows to DVD or VCD. Having standard file types makes it easy to edit out commercials. It also makes it possible to transfer shows to my laptop for trips (even without having to burn a DVD). Finally, I occasionally like to grab a video clip to use in a presentation or one of my own video projects. Tivo does not give me that option.

Different uses are important for different people. Maybe I'll build a MythTV box some day, if I find the time.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[tarun101]

If TiVo Series 3 manages to robustly support external filesystems (I have *no* problems with some sort of encryption scheme here) *and* let me view my preexisting videos through the elegant TiVo interface, I'm there.

Tivo2 allows you to view your external videos and movies files and browse the directories on tivo today.

You can also use galleon to backup your movies and other shows automatically over wireless or wired network.

Given these two and the fact that you can attach a fat external SATA hard disk should be enough to get you out of your mythbox now.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Yeechang Lee]

I don't like subscriptions, but even more than that I don't like being locked into a single service provider. What if, in two years, the scheduling on the Tivo service is always wrong, or the prices raise outrageously. Having the choice to switch providers is a big plus for me. Right now I use a free, web based service with my PVR.

"You get what you pay for" (which is probably what I should've titled my post, because that's what it really boils down to). In four and 1/2 years of daily, heavy TiVo use I never had an issue with the reliability of the scheduling data that Tribune (through TiVo) provided. The DataDirect service that MythTV now has access to in the US is great--seriously, much thanks to Zap2It--and is, theoretically, the exact same data as TiVo's since it also comes from Tribune, but in the six weeks I've used it I've already seen at least one day (today) with almost no programs scheduled. (I'm probably going to have to start running mythfilldatabase from cron twice a day instead of once.) People on mythtv-users complain about other such instances, too. Yes, LxMSuite is available, but I don't know if it would actually solve this issue or not, or if it's just a polite way of helping to subsidize the (very worthy) MythTV development effort.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Zathrus]

Bring programs *into* the box, not out of it

TiVo (S2 and above) can do that with home networking. It's not quite as flexible as a MythTV box, but it's very easy to do.

From the description it sounds like the Series 3 TiVo will have an Ethernet jack, but a) it's likely to be 100Mbps--likely to be problematic in real-life conditions when recording two HD programs and watching a third at the same time

No it's not, because TiVo records all the programs to the local drives. You can then transfer them to another TiVo or a PC, and that will work quite nicely over 100 Mbit. Yes, it means there's an extra step involved. I'm not denying that.

If TiVo Series 3 manages to robustly support external filesystems (I have *no* problems with some sort of encryption scheme here)

It will with the above caveats -- you have to transfer the recording. The encryption currently used in HMO transfers is ridiculously simple to remove. Mplayer doesn't even need to remove it -- it will play the file natively. As will all MPEG2 decoders for Windows (the hook is done prior to the decoder getting the data, so the decoder never even sees the encryption).

Especially if TiVo kindly offers us longtime lifetime-subscription owners free upgrades

I'm crossing my fingers here -- a little while after the S2 boxes were first released TiVo did this. You could transfer your subscription (monthly or lifetime; obviously it only made sense for lifetime) to a S2 box at no cost. You had to buy the hardware from TiVo and jump through a simple hoop, but that was it. You could then resell/gift/whatever your old system (of course, the new owner would need to buy a monthly or lifetime sub). I don't recall if it was necessary for your old TiVo to be functional -- although in your case all you would need is a new HD with the proper image on it. The TiVo subscriber number is not on the HD (it's in the firmware), and you can find the appropriate image if you look in the right places.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Yeechang Lee]

Tivo2 allows you to view your external videos and movies files and browse the directories on tivo today.

Yes, if they're in certain formats and resolutions. I have, alas, too many files whose names end in that obscure and unknown .avi extension.

While Galleon is a very useful utility, there's a world of difference between any backup procedure--even a relatively-sophisticated one with rules--and having transparent, read-and-write, real-time access to a real NFS or Samba-mounted directory tree.

Given these two and the fact that you can attach a fat external SATA hard disk should be enough to get you out of your mythbox now.

I invite you to read my message again. I have a *2.8TB array*. It is comprised of *many* big fat hard disks (specifically, eight 400GBs in a RAID 5 configuration), not just one. I do not wish to compromise.

And speaking of compromise, why should I also want to give up the HDTV recording I can do and am doing right now for a standard-definition TiVo Series 2 box, when I never felt motivated enough to upgrade from my Series 1 to it in the first place? (I can't get DirecTV so can't use the HDTV DirecTiVo box, and DirecTV stopped improving the software on their DirecTiVo boxes years ago.)

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Yeechang Lee]

I'm crossing my fingers here -- a little while after the S2 boxes were first released TiVo did this. You could transfer your subscription (monthly or lifetime; obviously it only made sense for lifetime) to a S2 box at no cost.

I'm glad to read your message; I have vague memories of TiVo doing so through an email offer to Series 1 owners like me, but am not sure. Yes, we're all crossing our fingers here.

Believe me, as I wrote in my original post, I *want* to go back to TiVo if it can offer what I currently have all nicely wrapped up in that glorious TiVo user interface! (MythTV has many elegant user-interface features, like the immensely-clever way it simultaneously lists available recordings in both reverse-chronological *and* title- or category-sorted fashion without making it obtrusive, but the UI still has some issues that TiVo solved six years [and a lot of venture capital money] ago.)

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Hmm, I use another provider yet, and grab updated scheduling information about every two hours. That was the default for my setup, and I've had one or two instances where a sporting event would run long, but aside from that, no problems at all. Oh, and it is banner ad supported via their web interface.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Anonymous Coward]

I invite you to read my message again. I have a *2.8TB array*. It is comprised of *many* big fat hard disks (specifically, eight 400GBs in a RAID 5 configuration), not just one.

I thought I'd already heard of RAID arrays that appear as an external SATA disk.

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[coop0030]

I like TV; but not this much.

This is in obsession/OCD territory.

Is this all set up in your Mom's basement? Sounds sweet...

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[kesuki]

b) who knows what type of external storage the box will ever support in practice.

The E-SATA kind. External sata is a simple pin thru for the data cable.
that means any power brick that can hook up to a SATA drive, and Any Sata drive, and a SATA cable are all you need. E-SATA requires no bridge controller, it's a direct pin thru to the drive.

so in practice, I'd say the 200 GB SATA drive i have sitting on the shelf in the room is Tivo HD series 3 compatable, since I have an old firewire drive bay that i can use a SATA power converter on, and then plug any sheilded e-SATA cable straight into the e-sata connecter on the new tivo hd series 3 and it will likely ask me if i want to 'bless' the new drive, and if i say so, it's now a tivo drive.

http://www.sata-io.org/esata.asp

Re:Sounds great, but is it too late?

[Yeechang Lee]

The E-SATA kind. External sata is a simple pin thru for the data cable.

I should've been more clear, since you're not the only one who misunderstood me. By "external storage" I meant NFS or Samba through the Ethernet jack, not through the SATA jack (of which I agree any external drive should work).

I'd be very happy if Tivo Series 3 supports NFS or Samba as storage (again, I have no problem with Tivo using whatever encryption methods they'd like on said files), but I'd also be very surprised.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Malc]

I didn't know that about the S2's. Thanks. External adapters are silly - who wants a set-top box with things hanging off it?

Fitting the card is hardly difficult. You'll spend more time finding the right screw driver to remove the three (four?) screws on the back, and then trying to figure out how to make the top cover slide back without damaging it. Oh, I guess you have to widen a hole at the back to make enough room for the RJ45 to slip through. This is half-an-hour work... the OP was suggesting building a MythTV box - that sounds far more time consuming.

I can't say I miss any of the features of newer Tivo software revisions. Then again, I'm in Canada and so have to run a Tivo service emulator anyway.

Where are the ReplayTV users?

[AceyMan]

I have had a ReplayTV (2nd Gen) for a couple of years now (purchased during the 'Green Sticker' fiasco, look it up). They say the Tivo's are easier to use, but I honestly can't see how much easier a GUI needs to be. Also, opinions (at the time, at least) were that the ReplayTV had a better picture. And it had Ethernet built in (which I can't use since my den isn't wired, but thats my problem).

Also, Tivo from what I read, is hurting financally. ReplayTV got acquired by Denon's parent company, and therefore has better backing to make it through tough times, plus maybe just better management in general.

I want my ReplayTV HD so I can take the HD plunge (I really enjoy my buddies 56" Samsung DLP :).

Re:Where are the ReplayTV users?

[MegaZone]

I guess you missed it. ReplayTV is out of the hardware business. They're selling off the last of the stock and that's that. There won't be any more ReplayTV boxes. DNNA is slapping the ReplayTV name on PC-based DVR software now.

Re:Where are the ReplayTV users?

[brxndxn]

I don't understand how ReplayTV was never mentioned in reviews... even when less-known products like MythTV are mentioned quite often. Also, I remember ReplayTV coming out before the original Tivo.

I have an older Panasonic Showstopper (uses ReplayTV interface) and a ReplayTV 4500 unit (the kind that skips commercials automatically). I love them. I like the Tivo okay, but imo the Replay TV interface is far superior for organizing large amounts of content. A Tivo merely sorts things in the order recorded. A Replay TV saves things into categories and you can control exactly what the Replay TV records.

Also, unlike Tivo, my Replay TV units have never downloaded any stupid video content I don't want to watch nor put videos in categories that cannot be deleted. My parents had some stupid 10 minute car commercial stuck on their Tivo for a few months.

I heard that Replay TV is going to just focus on computer TV software after it finishes selling the last of the Replay TV 5500 units..

Re:Where are the ReplayTV users?

[AceyMan]

Well knock me over with a feather. Can mod-points be used on your own post [-1, Clueless]

I still *love* my Replay!

Re:Where are the ReplayTV users?

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll. No TiVo user was ever forced to watch anything. The "showcase" or "yellow star" video content was recorded to a section of the hard disk reserved for the TiVo OS, which did not affect user diskspace or user content in any way.

You moronic Replay trolls are all alike: repeating the same lies over and over, years after anyone stopped giving a damn.

Oh, and TiVo Series 2 has had folders, for, like, three or four YEARS now, so let's cut this crap about TiVo users being forced to view shows listed only by recording time.

I have both Replay and TiVo. Replay sucks. It was designed by, and for, engineers. Those idiots did not have a friggin' clue about good UI design, user friendliness, simplicity, utility, or intuitive functional consistency.

Just finding a show to record on Replay is a chore, and there's no guarantee your show will be recorded if the network changes the schedule. Worse, Replay forces you to make these "channels" or whatever they are called, and decide in advance how much storage space to give each channel, which is a management issue you shouldn't have to deal with in the first place.

Replay has nothing comparable to TiVo's Season Pass Manager, which allows you to prioritize shows. Replay has nothing comparable to TiVo's To Do List or Recording History, which lets you know exactly what WILL be recorded, or if not, it lets you know why it won't be recorded. Trying to figure out what Replay will record when there is a scheduling conflict is something of a black art, whereas it is transparently easy on a TiVo.

You repeat the lying Replay fanboy FUD about TiVo not letting you "control" what you want to record, which is not only a lie, but a damned lie since thanks to TiVo's Season Pass Manager, To Do List, and Recording History, I have far more control over what my TiVo records than the control I have over my Replay.

If you mean, control your TV recording poorly, then yes, Replay wins hands down.

As to the ReplayTV fanboy lie, you repeat the oldest lie of all: that Replay was "first" to market, ie, before TiVo. It's a lie. All ReplayTV did was issue a press release claiming to be first. TiVo actually shipped product to market first, and that's what counts. TiVos were available for sale to the public first. That hasn't prevented Replay's lie to be repeated uncritically ever since, though.

Re:Where are the ReplayTV users?

[Anonymous Coward]

SonicBlues last software update to the 5000 series, released in mid-2003 just after DNNA took it over, changed the show channels so that they no longer require you to choose a fixed amount of space to allocate to the channel. In fact they completely dumped the guaranteed/non-guaranteed model that had been 70% of what made ReplayTV recording management complete and utter torture. A later update made the red dots on the guide more reliable so that they were reliable indicators of what show channels would record.

But they still don't have a season pass manager, recording history, decent management of theme recordings, and a host of other things Tivo users have taken for granted for years. They still suck at easy and reliable recording, but they're not the instruments of torture they used to be.

That said, the grandparent post mentions having only a Showstopper and a 4500, neither of which run the latest 5000 sofware and both of which are still afflicted with all the problems you mention. His defending those models as being better than Tivo is just as ridiculous as you say, to which I'll add: The reason you don't hear anything about ReplayTV anymore is because neither ReplayTV inc, nor SonicBlue understood how to design a DVR that could easily and reliably record TV shows. DNNA hasn't done anything with the brand at all except reneg on promises made by their predecessor, cripple the model they inherited from SB, and perform some unbelievably bonheaded stunts with the service plans a few years ago. Those that are more interested in moving, copying and archiving shows are still ReplayTV/DVArchive fans (and it should be noted that without DVArchive ReplayTV has almost nothing at all to offer) but most just want to timeshift TV.

I'd also be willing to bet that the grandparents 4500 (and maybe the Showstopper too, I forget how long ago they added this) has displayed pause ads, bland, unimaginitive, uninformative, non-interactive, screen-filling images that popped up over paused TV and required a button press to dismiss, which is more intrusive than any of the advertising Tivo has used.

Also, unlike ReplayTV, my Tivo units have never downloaded a software update that introduced a "maintenance reboot" every two days because previous software updates had made the thing so unstable that it couldn't run longer than that without crashing. The current 5xxx models still have the reboot, now every 5 days, which it apparently still needs. There have been reports of a "bug" where the reboot doesn't happen, and shortly afterward the recorder loses network connectivity until it's rebooted. I think the 4500 models such as the one the grandparent praised so highly still reboot every two days.

ReplayTV has always been crap. ReplayTVs (the company) original models worked as designed, but were designed very very badly. SonicBlue added network features few people cared about, along with bugs and instability to the same bad design. DNNA actually removed a couple of things, added nothing, and their boneheaded marketing (particularly their incredibly dense stunt with the service plan pricing a few years ago) was so bad ReplayTV was probably better off when they started ignoring the brand entirely.

As for who was first, I think one (ReplayTV?) was available for ordering first, but another (Tivo?) was in stores first. If it's not that it's something equally silly. But whatever it was, the two brands were released only a month apart so for either to try and paint themselves as more of a pioneer than the other is disingenous. However given what ReplayTVs owners have done to the brand, how little they've done with the brand recently, how utterly they failed to use their single whopping one-month head start to produce a DVR anybody wanted, and how thorougly Tivo has kicked their ass by every measure - new models, new features, new software, outliving ReplayTVs first two corporate owners, and oh yes, SUBSCRIBERS - ReplayTV and ReplayTV advocates whining about how they were first is particularely pathetic.

TiVo is dead

[caudley]

Maybe if they started shipping these units today they would have a chance at saving themselves. But they're not going to have them ready for another 6 months at least?

They announced HDTV support for early 2006 at last years CES, and that was insanity. How can it take one year, much less two, to develop HD TiVo when the capability is (was) already available through DirecTV. By the time this box ships, the DVR market is already going to be firmly in the hands of the cable companies. Most of the market is going to accept a lesser box for $5.95 a month rather than wait around for the privilege of owning an HD TiVo for $12.95 a month. And thats assuming you believe the TiVo will actually be available this year. Last time we heard from TiVo (they haven't said a word about HD for a year), the HD box was supposed to be available *now*.

I bought TiVo when they first came out, and I've given half a dozen as gifts. At this point I won't waste another dime on them.

My 2006 prediction, TiVo will be bought at an extreme discount by a CATV company, the technology cherry picked for their own products and the TiVo name taken, but otherwise the TiVo will be gone.

Re:TiVo is dead

[raygundan]

This is a cablecard box. That was a DirecTV box. You'll note that they are not the same thing.

That said, it still seems like "mid to late 2006" is a tad late for something like this, although I believe most of their delay trouble has been wrestling with the cablecard standard.

This box also includes MPEG-4 and WMV support, probably for both downloadable content and futureproofing in case cable companies change codecs away from MPEG-2 as DirecTV has done. That change by DirecTV has obsoleted the HD DirecTivo-- isn't it worth a little extra wait to have one that won't become useless the second your cableco goes MPEG-4?

This box, and their Comcast partnership, should keep them afloat. (crosses fingers)

Re:TiVo is dead

[Buran]

I think the timing is just about right for much of the uptake of digital televisions and flatpanels and the HD migration. I don't currently have a flatpanel television although I do have a Series 2 TiVo, and I plan to purchase a flatpanel and a Series 3 within the next 1-3 years; the current TiVo and set will be moved, probably to my bedroom, and the corner space taken up by the current set will be taken up instead by a curio display shelf designed for corners and used to display the space shuttle and mini-VW collection that is now on top of and in front of the TV.

In a small house, space has to be used efficiently and the fact that new HDTV equipment will be great for watching my DVD collection AND will take up empty wall space but free up needed floor space is very appealing. And TiVo will be rolling out these boxes at just the right time for me.

Predictions are out saying that HDTV/flatpanel purchases will increase quite a bit in the next few years in part due to people like me who will be buying just when the features like CableCard (no cable-box required, thus losing the hassles of IR blasters and such) required to get the full digital lineup (and all the subchannels of Discovery and History etc -- yes I'm a documentary addict) will be ready for prime time.

Recommendations for HDTV units in the range of 40"-55" or so (the sizes that will fit the available wallspace well) welcome. Since this Series3 will support HDMI among other things, I think that's my best bet. I also need composite inputs for my DVD player and RCA outputs for my digital speaker towers. Surround sound isn't a must because I am deaf in my left ear and have no stereo hearing so to be honest anything beyond mono is lost on me.

Re:TiVo is dead

[kb7oeb]

Cox charges $20 for a HD Dvr and $15 for a SD. Go with a lifetime sub and its cheaper in the long run and doesn't require digital cable so you might be able to save more if you don't want the extra channels.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Fishstick]

>I'm not quite sure what your point is.

The Series 2 I just bought has USB only, no ethernet. I had the same WTF reaction when I went to hook it up. Only thing I can think is it provides some flexibility for wireless vs wired?

I just went and googled for a minute or two and settled on a Netgear FA120 10/100 USB 2.0 Adapter. Plugged it in and TiVo found it right away -- couple screens later and I had configured it with a static IP and was ready to go.

I've got (probably) the same Sony S1 -- I got it second-hand because the modem was bad and the guy had already opened the case to add a second drive and couldn't return it. Had to fiddle with PPP over serial to get it activated, though. Best $30 I ever spent!

>why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record

I don't know -- maybe because they feel it reveals something about their personality they want others to know? What's the big deal? ;-)

I like MythBusters too!

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Zathrus]

External adapters are silly - who wants a set-top box with things hanging off it?

They are silly, but it's not all that bad -- it's just yet another cable really. But it's an added expense (Fitting the card is hardly difficult.

I remember it being a major pain on my two Philips units -- it wasn't a case of the card being too large or anything, but rather the amount of space available to work in being exceptionally small. And yeah, getting the case off wasn't all that smooth, and making the hole for the ethernet cable (especially if it already had an RJ45 connector on it) was annoying.

The case screws were standard 1/4" hex-head/#2 Philips; maybe Sony used Torx.

I can't say I miss any of the features of newer Tivo software revisions.

Folders are nice. The networking features are a god-send -- we constantly transfer shows between TiVos. The video extraction on the S1 was incredibly painful back when I was trying to use it. But I took advantage of TiVo's offer to transfer lifetime memberships to S2 boxes at one point (wonder if they'll offer that again on the S3s... that would be nice) and sold my S1's on eBay. Came out pretty close to even.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[bourne]

It's nice that it has Ethernet, but can you do anything useful with it or will it be heavily DRM'ed?

Yep - not ever have to worry about running a phone line over to the TiVo, or think about when the phone is tied up, or get incensed at the stupidity of transferring data over POTS ever again.

Even if you couldn't transfer video with it (and I'm sure you'll be able to) the update capabilities make it worth it.

Tivo in the UK

[Mr_Silver]

It is a shame that Tivo pulled out of the UK and haven't come back again. At present, if you don't want to cough up 15 quid to Sky a month (on top of the Sky+ box rental - which actually is pretty damn nice) then you can get a freeview box and a bunch of channels for very little money and no monthly fee.

However the problem comes with a PVR, you either get Tivo and do some jiggery pokery to get it to manage the changing of the channels on the digibox - which is not only a huge hack but means you can only tape one channel at a time and can't change from it during recording.

Or you pick up a box from Digifusion, Humax or two other companies I've forgotten which has twin tuners and a huge hard-drive but has a UI which isn't quite so slick. Oh, and not forgetting that absolutely none of them have season pass/series link so you cannot just push a button and record the entire series. They're nice ... but they just don't quite cut it.

Tivo could make a killing if they came up with a twin-tuner freeview box.

(side note: I know that part of the reason on no season pass is because freeview doesn't broadcast the season and episode numbers in its scheduling. However it doesn't take a genius to come up with a simple algorithm that looks for a similar title at around the same time each day and records it if it is on. Not the best solution - but better than having no one-click season pass at all)

[grumble]

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[servognome]

Incidentally - why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record? It's like music stories - with those people always seem to like to post the "artists" they like. Why? It's a waste of space.

Sometimes to get grass root efforts going to support the shows/music they like. I never saw "Firefly" when it first came out, but I saw enough people on /. praising it that I thought I would give it a try and loved it.

Pretty soon you will have everything

[digitaldc]

With the way memory is going up in size and down in price, everything will be automatically recorded you will be able to just delete the shows you don't like instead of spending time finding/recording the ones you do.
Either that or TV will soon become fully 'on demand' and Tivo will become just another alternative for individual viewing preferences.

Re:Pretty soon you will have everything

[WebGangsta]

With the way memory is going up in size and down in price, everything will be automatically recorded you will be able to just delete the shows you don't like instead of spending time finding/recording the ones you do. Either that or TV will soon become fully 'on demand' and Tivo will become just another alternative for individual viewing preferences.

It's already been done.

From mid-year 2005: PROMISE TV: "Promise.tv takes advantage of digital television technology to automatically record a full seven day's broadcasting across all selected TV channels. This wholesale recording means it is no longer necessary to choose programmes to watch in advance. All programmes transmitted over the last seven days are stored for viewing at any time."

I still prefer TiVo Suggestions of things TiVo thinks I'd enjoy over having a machine record *everything* on the off-chance that I may want to see something.

DirecTV & cablecard

[BushCheney08]

Does anyone know if DirecTV offers or has any plans to offer CableCards? If so, then I'll be all over this series 3 TiVo when I move next year.

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[tgd]

Hmmmm... Cable.... Cards.... Cable... Cards... Cable..Cards.. Cable.Cards.

CableCards?

I wonder why the word Cable would be in there?

And no, they won't ever support CableCards

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[BushCheney08]

Hmmm...I wonder what this thing running from my satdish into the back of the settop box is...Looks sort of like a, ummm, well, cable...

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[tgd]

*blank stare*

Um...

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[falzbro]

Since BushCheney08 isn't getting it...

CableCard = Cable. Literally Cable. Cable has been standardized now so that anyone can build a box, like this, and use it. CableCard essentially is just a "key" to decrypt channels, if your Cable Co is encrypthing things.

DirecTV/Dish Network use whatever they want for standards, they have *nothing* to do with cable, and CableCard.

tgd was really *hoping* you could figure this out based on the name. guess not.

--falz

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[The Wicked Priest]

Sadly, DirecTV and Dish are exempted from the CableCard mandate. The Series 3 wouldn't be compatible anyway -- it does QAM (the digital cable standard) as well as 8VSB (digital OTA), but not 4PSK, which is what DirecTV uses.

Of course, DirecTV is soon to switch to 8PSK and MPEG-4 for their high-def channels, intentionally obsoleting all existing DirecTV HD receivers; so it's not like that's what's holding them back. Like the cable companies, they just want to control all the revenue -- in this case by selling you the receivers rather than renting them. It used to be that you could get DirecTV receivers from a variety of manufacturers, but now they're all in-house. They even dropped their highly successful partnership with Tivo, seemingly for no more reason than because were too cheap to keep paying the measly $1 per month per customer that went to Tivo, and because Murdoch thought his own company NDS could do just as well (no one else thinks so).

But in the meantime, if you want, DirecTV HD Tivos are still available -- and they're the only HD Tivos that are, yet.

Re:DirecTV & cablecard

[BushCheney08]

Thank you very much for your informative answer. I figured it was unlikely, but didn't want to jump to conclusions based solely on the name. After all, it wouldn't be the first time a consortium chose an ill-fitting consumer-friendly name for a standard.

WPA Support

[digitalgimpus]

Oh please say so... WEP is so hard for users to configure (long key), and most want to run their AP in WPA mode for more security.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[goosman]

Secret: Strong enough for a man, but made for /. But what the hell do I know? I use Mitchum (unscented).

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[uradu]

> I bought the ethernet card and plugged it in. No problems.

I have the same setup, but enough of the "no problems" already. For your average non-techie consumer wanting Ethernet there ARE problems galore with the SA1: willingness to void warranty by opening the unit, obtaining the right size Torx screw driver (which not exactly a common household item like a Philips driver), cutting the right-sized hole into the back of the unit to snap in an RJ45 socket and obtaining said socket and wiring it to a patch cable stub (or just drilling a hole into the back and running a patch cable straight from the card to the outside and having it all look like shite and be prone to having the cable pulled too hard and unplugged or unseating the card), obtaining and installing the necessary Linux software to serve up shows from the box, editing the init script to start it all up, and hoping that after all this the box still works right.

Yeah, no problems at all for your average Best Buy customer.

Re:Had a TiVo. Hated paying the monthly fee

[pigbat]

I'm not sure how your Cox works but mine charges $9.95/month for the box and $4.95/month for the service.

Sounds great, but...

[Mr. Cancelled]

1. You still have a subscription fee (not a concern for some / major concern for others)
2. You still have Tivo the company in the mix, which in the past has:
   • Erased user-recorded content
   • Recorded programs that Tivo wanted you to see, without asking your permission (which in addition to being very annoying, also used your precious disk space)
   • Limited the duration you have for watching recorded content
   • Not guaranteed any of Tivos features - They can remove them as they see fit (conversely, they can also add features, but who's going to complain about that?)
   • Made very questionable deals about subscriber privacy (selling demographical information, regional data, etc)
3. And this Tivo box, as with all other Tivo models, is still limited in what it can do, NOT in terms of hardware and potential, but in what Tivo will let you do with the hardware you're purchasing.

Sorry... Neat specs, and if there were no subscriber fee, I might pick up one for the GF who has issues dealing with my home built PVR (simply because she's afraid she'll break it somehow).

Additionally, while Tivo has turned a blind eye to some of the Tivo hacking that's taken place, they've proven that they're more than ready to disable features of their boxes if consumers begin using them in ways they didn't imagine.

Once Tivo, as a company, begins acknowledging, in legal terms, my rights as owner of the equipment, I'll consider them. Until then, as long as they're catering to Hollywood's hyper-paranoid demands, they're SOL as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[rewdpost]

So let's address your concerns, as a non-subscriber and someone who has never owned a Tivo box, right??

> 1. You still have a subscription fee (not a concern for some / major >concern for others)
Gosh...you mean you have to actually PAY for a service? Cable is free after all. So is internet access and phone service too for that matter.

I know there are free options out there (Myth etc) but Tivo doesn't exactly hide the fact from users that in order to use their product you need to buy the service. As a bonus, I found in the past that the updated schedules Tivo gets are more often even more correct than the program guide on my digital cable receiver.

> 2. You still have Tivo the company in the mix, which in the past has:
> * Erased user-recorded content
I had Tivo service for 4 years and never once had a problem with this. Maybe there have been a few fluke situations where this happens, but every deletion I ever saw on my box followed the rules I set up when recording the program (Delete after X days, when I run out of space, options like that)

> * Recorded programs that Tivo wanted you to see, without >asking your permission (which in addition to being very annoying, also >used your precious disk space)
There's a simple little option to turn off the suggestions, even my parents could figure out how to turn this feature off on their own. And for what it's worth, the software is designed such that any suggested programs are the first programs deleted when disk space starts to become an issue. So unless having empty drive space sitting there unused makes you feel better this isn't really a problem. If it is, then turn off suggestions.
> * Limited the duration you have for watching recorded content
I can't really argue with this other than mentioning that the only shows I'm aware of this actually coming up on after the initial bugs are PPV shows and other content that if you REALLY want to keep it, you could find another way to record. See the other threads about stripping the DRM off of the .tivo format files for MPEG transfer.
> * Not guaranteed any of Tivos features - They can remove them >as they see fit (conversely, they can also add features, but who's going >to complain about that?)
Again, not going to argue with you about the loss of features, but I don't really recall anything like that having happened. And like you said, you certainly don't complain when they give you bonus features you never thought you'd see like file transfer and network connectivity.
> * Made very questionable deals about subscriber privacy >(selling demographical information, regional data, etc)
Every user of Tivo agrees to have non-identifiable information shared when they sign up for the service. There's no privacy issue here as it's specifically mentioned that there is no tie between the information shared and the specific machine it comes from. Put your tinfoil hat back on.
> 3. And this Tivo box, as with all other Tivo models, is still limited >in what it can do, NOT in terms of hardware and potential, but in what >Tivo will let you do with the hardware you're purchasing.
I'm sorry, but if you compare Tivo to any other commercial DVR out there, it's the most hacker friendly unit out there. While they may shake their fingers and warn that you will void your warranty, it's not like they're Microsoft barring you from XBox Live as soon as they see a modified system connecting to their network.

All this from someone who dumped their Tivo for the Comcast DVR because I wanted HD recording. If/when the series 3 hits the shelves I may just be one of the first in line to get my quality service back.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[msilano]

Ok, I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but:

You still have Tivo the company in the mix, which in the past has:

Erased user-recorded content

Yup, due to broadcast flags being set incorrectly by the originating broadcaster. All mistakes have been quickly reported and resolved. Note the fate of ReplayTV, which was sued and sold into oblivion due to their ignoring obvious DRM issues.

Recorded programs that Tivo wanted you to see, without asking your permission (which in addition to being very annoying, also used your precious disk space)

Yup, this can be turned off very easily. Also, a portion of the disk is dedicated to system-level functions, and suggestions are one of those functions. Note that disk space is no longer precious.

Limited the duration you have for watching recorded content

Um, see #1 above. This has not yet happened on a widescale basis.

Not guaranteed any of Tivos features - They can remove them as they see fit (conversely, they can also add features, but who's going to complain about that?)

And who today guarantees any features?

Made very questionable deals about subscriber privacy (selling demographical information, regional data, etc)

Sigh. Subscriber data is aggregated and sold. Read here for more information. http://www.tivo.com/5.11.3.asp

And this Tivo box, as with all other Tivo models, is still limited in what it can do, NOT in terms of hardware and potential, but in what Tivo will let you do with the hardware you're purchasing.

This is a general use consumer device. If you want full control and customization, roll your own.

Re:Sounds great, but...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Not guaranteed any of Tivos features - They can remove them as they see fit (conversely, they can also add features, but who's going to complain about that?)

And who today guarantees any features?

Tivo is selling two things, hardware and a service. They have paired the two together, though and you can only do scheduling with both. This means you're stuck with the service even if the requirement for it is to change your hardware's abilities, or if it sucks. Other companies, just sell the hardware and let you pick the service you like best. They have no leverage to remove hardware features, since they don't provide a service they can cut off. This has the added advantage of letting the user pick the right service for them in terms of performance and cost. Right now I know my PVR will never lose the ability to skip ahead 30 seconds or edit out commercials. That is because there is no way for the company that sold me the box to alter the software on it without my approval. If my scheduling provider starts to suck, I'll switch to a different one. Do you see how this offers a lot more of a guarantee?

My use for TiVo is pretty simple

[CatOne]

Not necessarily that I want to be swimming in media, but that I want to watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch it.

I haven't seen a commercial in about a year (thank you 30 second skip), and I just tell TiVo what shows I like, and when I visit it, they're on there. Who knows when the shows play; I don't care.

I watch more shows now than I used to, but spend a lot less time doing it. Win-win, I say.

As to whether I'd let my children spend hours a day getting a media addition in front of a TV: No, and parenting skills haven't really changed since the advent of TV. Bad parents will still be bad parents.

Re:My use for TiVo is pretty simple

[TubeSteak]

I haven't seen a commercial in about a year

Not that you care, but you've missed some winners.

I generally despise commercials, but not all of them are utter trash. Humor tends to sit very well with me.

I love the "So simple a cave-man could use it" commercials. Mostly because they show pissed off cave-men immediately after the guy says this.

You're also missing out on some significant social memes. Like the "but I saved 15% on my car insurance" line.

Despite my (and your) dislike of commercials, some do qualify as entertainment.

Other Options

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Tivo are fine, if you're willing to put up with the cost and limitations. MythTV are more functional, but require quite a bit of tweaking and are not as user friendly. Just keep in mind, there are other options. Windows Media Center, ReplayTV, Elgato, etc. are middle ground choices worth considering. My PVR took an hour to get up and running properly, but I haven't really touched it since. It is intuitive enough that my girlfriend figured it out in an hour, cheaper than the Tivo, and has a lot of functionality missing from the Tivo. It also has no DRM implemented.

In my opinion, Tivo was great, then they sold out. It is time to look to the newer players on the field and see what they will offer.

HDCP vs HDMI?

[JEK-slashdot]

Notice that the back output is labeled HDMI and not HDCP. Could this mean that they haven't signed onto the DRM contract required by HDCP?

I wonder if they will do so prior to shipping.

It is about time we get HD in a PVR!

Re:HDCP vs HDMI?

[The Wicked Priest]

HDMI is a physical port specification; HDCP is a copy prevention system. They're orthogonal. AFAIK, all HDMI ports support HDCP. With DVI ports, on the other hand, it may or may not be available, which is why you'll see "DVI-HDCP" specified sometimes. But this is not an issue with HDMI, TTBOMK.

I can tell you for certain that the DirecTV HDTivo also has an HDMI port (logically labelled "HDMI"), that I use it with the included HDMI-> DVI cable, and that HDCP is active in that configuration as well.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd assume it would pump out the transcoded files via the ethernet port (wow, takes so much brainpower to figure this out).

Snide remarks, unfounded conclusions, incorrect statements--you continue to live up to your low reputation.

Satellite customers not invited?

[raitchison]

I guess us satellite users can just sit on a tack. There are no S-Video or even composite imputs on this box nor is there serial control or IR blaster support.

Not that being a satellite user (Dish Network) I could use the dual tuner features (would need two satellite recievers) or of coruse the CableCARD but it would be nice to buy a Series3 because it would be more future proof, like maybe if Dish miraculously became CableCARD compible in a few years) or I switched to a different provider (less likely)

One of the things I REALLY love about my Stand Alone Series2 is that it's provider independent, and that it works with satellite, analog or digital cable, whatever I've got.

Re:Satellite customers not invited?

[reiggin]

With both Dish and DirecTV marketing their own brand of DVR (with DirecTV inparticular having given TiVo the finger), I imagine TiVo could give a crap less about either provider.

Re:Satellite customers not invited?

[raitchison]

It's not about the providers, it's about the customers.

It looks as if TiVo doesn't care about the roughly 1/3 of households that subscribe to Satellite TV.

Presumably they will still offer the Series2 but if you want the features that Series3 has that your satellite subscription would support (like the extrernal SATA storage, the integrated Ethernet adapter or the increased storage capacity (without the need for hacking)) you are definitely SOL.

Re:Satellite customers not invited?

[rharkins]

Um, seems to me that damn near every cable company is providing their own PVR, too.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[BushCheney08]

Elaborate please, oh wise AC. Which incorrect statements? If you'd look into how they're currently handling PSP and iPod transcoding, they're not DRM'd, but they are digitally watermarked. So, as I said, please elaborate.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Mysticalfruit]

I own a duel tuner DirecTivo and I've been very happy with it. My only complaint is that generally the DirecTivo lags behind the regular TiVo in terms of updates, etc. A good example of this is that my DirecTivo has USB ports on the back but no support for a USB ethernet card.

Looking at this there's a couple of things I wish this thing had.

1. A firewire port. I understand why they wouldn't put one in there, but come on. My parents digital TV tuner has a firewire port, this thing should to.
2. A gigE network port. It's 2006... put a real network adapter in this thing.

so what

[jaimz22]

so what if tivo had HDTV DVR, time warner cable had been pimpin their HDTV DVR for almost 4 or 5 months now

I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me in..

[maillemaker]

OK, I admit, I'm a little behind the times on this whole Tivo thing. (Yeah, I have a B.S. in Computer Science and my VCR still flashes 12:00, too :) )

So someone fill me in. Isn't this just a digital VCR that you have to pay a subscription fee to use, with the axe of immenent DRM hanging over your necks?

I'm missing the appeal. Why do I have to pay a subscription to use a recording device and deal with "broadcast flags"?

Steve

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Malc]

Yes, Torx screws.

Whilst I was at it, I added bash, Tivoweb (HTTP service), mfs_ftp, etc. No problems transferring things around for me either ;)

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[pfunkmallone]

GigE wouldn't do you any good with the processor in that box. It wouldn't be able to manage the data as fast as the network could get the data to it.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that you can subscribe to TiVo in Canada, don't you? I'm running an S2 with a legit subscription - they started supporting Canadian customers back in the fall. You may want to look into this, if only because the people who are maintaining Simplicity probably won't be doing so for long since their intention was not to rip off TiVo, and one day you may be out in the cold. Not to mention that it's the right thing to do. :-)

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

What about for your average /.er who is willing to install MythTV? That describes the OP.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Alien Being]

I'm quite relaxed, and as you might have noticed, I used the singular form. The only reason I jumped in was that I was already planning to ask the same questions. In my experience here, repeating the question does sometimes help the process, especially when the original post is in danger of falling below the noise floor.

I can't wait!

[enrico_suave]

Although tivo is notorious for their slow rollouts. I'm pretty sure they "announced" Tivo2Go at the 1999 CES (I kid, I kid)

e.

No DVI?

[Itninja]

How can even be considered truely HD if it doesn't have a DVI connection? My HDTV has one as well as my HD sat receiver. Isn't that kind of required?

Re:No DVI?

[TheDoctorWho]

It does have HDMI. But having that doesn't make it any more HD then the component outputs..

Re:No DVI?

[Itninja]

I'm not entirely certain what HDMI is as compares to DVI. Care to enlighten me?

Re:No DVI?

[Wordplay]

DVI + digital audio in one combined cable, basically. You can get dongles to let you connect HDMI to DVI; all they do is not pass the wires that have the audio signal.

Re:No DVI?

[raygundan]

It's the same signal, with audio and DRM, in one cable. You can buy an adapter fairly inexpensively online that will let you plug DVI into HDMI and vice versa.

Here's one for $7. The same shop has them in M-F and F-M, depending on your particular needs.

Re:No DVI?

[The Wicked Priest]

The DirecTV HDTivo comes with an HDMI -> DVI cable. This will probably be the same.

And no, it isn't required. HDMI is the way everything is going (because of the guaranteed DRM, because the connector is simpler, because HDMI has more theoretical room for growth). For that matter, component outputs are enough for a device to qualify as "truly HD", even though they're analog. (Not the component out on your DVD player, which does 480p at best; but the component out on a typical HD receiver, which also does 720p and 1080i.)

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[BushCheney08]

Oh, you're such a slack motherfucker. : p

On Demand with Cable Card?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know why cable companies don't support On Demand over anything but their own boxes? Is it a technical reason or are they just being anti-competitive?

This box would be perfect if OD worked (wife likes OD), perhaps I'll just get the normal non DVR cable box and connect that too...

Re:On Demand with Cable Card?

[aduzik]

It's a technical reason. The current CableCARDs that cable systems use are unidirectional. To do VOD, PPV, and other things the cable company would *really* like you to do -- especially PPV -- you would need a bidirectional card. But those don't exist yet.

When I called my cable company about getting digital cable -- something I resisted until I got a new TV with CableCARD, they told me that they didn't support CableCARD. Then I said that the FCC mandates that they do. Utterly nonplussed, the cable lady told me that I couldn't get VOD or PPV without a box. I said, "I know; that's part of the attraction." Then she told me it would be three weeks before they could install it. I'm not sure what kind of "installation" is needed beyond installing the card and activating it, but she insisted that a real human being had to come to my house between the hours of 9 and 2. But anyway, I've never had to wait longer than a week for an appointment. I said, "do you want my money or not?" And suddenly, magically, an appointment just happened to open up within the next week. So I guess the moral of the story is don't expect the cable company to be polite when you ask for a CableCARD instead of their crappy set-top boxes. And I guess don't expect them to be honest, either.

By the way, don't connect a cable box to a TiVo. You have to set up an IR blaster to change the channel, and someone can easily come along and screw it all up by changing the channel on the TV, totally unaware that the TiVo is recording from the cable box.

Re:On Demand with Cable Card?

[The Wicked Priest]

It's a bit of both. To support On Demand, the box has to be able to communicate back to the cable company. This is not supported by the existing "one-way" CableCards, but it will be in the forthcoming (?) two-way cards. The Series 3 appears ready for these cards, but last I heard, they weren't available to anyone yet. The cable companies are dragging their feet on two-way cards, as on the original cards, because they'd rather rent you a box.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Malc]

I don't think S1 Tivos are supported, or at least not without hacking. I knew Simplicity would go away when Tivo offer service here, and I've been following the discussion on forums.tivocanada.com. I guess at some point I will have to decide whether I really want to shell out another $15/month for TV, or whether I'm happy to use the TV Guide from my Globe and Mail subscription and use the Tivo as a digital VCR.

Fortunately, the new box fixes this.

[raygundan]

The Series 3 unit doesn't need or support external tuner boxes. It *is* the cable box now. Two cablecard, two ATSC, and two NTSC tuners cover everything from unencrypted OTA SDTV to encrypted cable ATSC. No more latency since *it* will be changing the channel.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

it's all about the cable card here, being able to record digital cable right off the wire and such.

Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

The FCC was told they cannot mandate the flag. This does not mean that the entertainment industry did not choose to implement it. Tivo was all but forced to include it because of industry pressure as do most manufactures to avoid law suits and dropped support. Without the FCC rule though, devices can be made that ignore it legally so they could possible choose not to acknowledge the flag later though that is doubtful. As a side note, ATI has built in support for it too.

Re:Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tivo had to include it due to their Macrovision license. They could not support Macrovision & all that it entails and not support what amounts to the broadcast flag. They couldn't not support Macrovision and still get the content companies blessings & all that jazz.

HBO, for instance, is happily using the broadcast flag right now, at this very minute, for virtually all movies they broadcast (as far as I know they haven't set it for their own programming, like Bill Maher's show).

That they're doing it a mandate from the FCC is meaningless, they're still doing it. The "content" companies require them to do it, and they need that content. It will take a lawsuit against HBO to stop them from doing it.

Re:Wrong?

[Wesley Felter]

You're confusing CGMS/A and the broadcast flag. But besides that your message is correct and it points out some problems that Tivo owners need to be aware of.

Homebrew tivo maybe, but NOT cheaper.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm fanboy like when it comes to tivo (still have and USE my 1st gen 14hr model, albeit with a bigger drive)... BUT... Lifetime service + cost of (current series 2) box is going to be less expensive then any myth system you can build from scratch. I die just a little bit inside every time someone uses the I'm not going to pay for monthly service when I can get this stuff for free with myth argument. yo Because you need to qualify that, you really do, the TCO of a myth box, is likely to be HIGHER then the TCO of a series 2 with lifetime. Further, the resale value of a tivo with lifetime is very high. Trying selling your myth box 3 years later and see if you can recover virtualy full price! Listen, sure Myth is super cool, you can put a gazillion tuners in, you can do HD (OTA only) and the community doing development and support is fantastic, I get all that. You can also expand at will, add new things as they come to be and "change with the times" Tivo's will support that to a *limited* degree, but clearly this is where the Myth is the winner, it's a system you build and control. But you can plug a tivo in and it just works for you, your wife, your kid, and maybe even your mother in law... Don't try THAT with Myth. Plus, you know a lot of people just want their PVR/DVR to record the stuff that they want to watch, and tivo does that EXTREMELY well. (Do you factor the cost of your TIME messing with a Myth box too? Or is that actually a benefit because it's *fun*?) So, make your ubergeek Myth Rocks Tivo Sucks arguments, you will have some valid points, but Total Cost of Ownership is not the argument to make, because tivo wins there.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[raygundan]

I used to think the same thing, and then in 2000 I won a free 14-hour unit in some online contest back in the crazy days of the web. I didn't even have cable, and it was still the greatest thing since sliced bread.
seen
I still haven't found the right way to explain it to somebody who (like me in 2000) doesn't get it. I think the difficulty of explaining the box is hurting their sales, too.

Suffice it to say it's more reliable than a VCR, 100x easier to program and use, and it's the only piece of my home theatre that my fiancee doesn't think was designed by antisocial engineers specifically to torture her.

I worry about the DRM a bit, but so far, I've never run into it. I understand the flap we saw earlier this year was over a bug-- only PPV shows are supposed to disappear. Because, you know, you have to pay... per... view.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[TheDoctorWho]

The subscription service is for a few things.

Tivo Menus for show times.

Tivo upgraded to software, like being able to sit at work and schedule your recordings at home. Whoopity DOOO.

I use the DirectTV TiVO package, at $4.95/Month. I don't get some of the cool features, but it's $8 less/month than TiVo Subscription.

You missed the point

[Scyber]

The point of PVRs is to filter through the mass of media and find the stuff that only interests you at your own schedule. By having a PVR it allows to you read books, play UNO, throw frisbees to your dog, or go to the neighborhood sports bar. And you can still watch the programming you want to watch without concern about missing anything.

Also, as a sports fan, I still go to bars to watch Football (or to the stadium), but I still record the game so I can watch it later in the week to dissect the plays and performance of my team. Of course, I might just be a little too obessessed..

Nitpick: 30 Second Skip != Commercial Skip

[Scyber]

Commercial Skip (also known as Commercial Advance) is a feature that automatically detects commercials and skips over the entire commercial break without user intervention. This has been on some VCRs for years and used to be availible on ReplayTVs (till the got sued and had to remove it).

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Syberghost]

Incidentally - why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record?

Information wants to be free! What's wrong with sharing? :)

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[TheSkyIsPurple]

> transfer MPEG2 video to the TiVo

Really? I've never seen an option for that that didn't involve major hacking.

Though, I'm very interested. How is it done?

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Zathrus]

Though, I'm very interested. How is it done?

Put the MPEG2 file in a directory. Point your desktop software (TiVo Desktop, Galleon, or whatever) to the directory. Go to the TiVo and select it just as you would another TiVo and transfer it. In the case of Galleon you don't even need to go to the TiVo -- you can tell Galleon to initiate the transfer to the TiVo.

HMO is a wonderful thing.

This is only applicable to S2 or higher standard TiVos -- HMO is not available on S1 TiVos or DirecTiVos.

If we cannot extract recorded programs

[Lead Butthead]

If we cannot extract recorded programs off the unit, it's worthless.

Re:If we cannot extract recorded programs

[dmorel]

No, it's not worthless, it lacks a feature you want. Personally it's super for me, it will record the HD broadcasts of the football games I currently use a vastly inferior SA box from my cable co to record. I have no need to extract or archive that. I certainly have no interest in extracting any network television show, since I would never want to watch that more then once.

Perhaps, I could become interested in extraction for a movie on HBO or something, but yo know it's not necessary. I'm pretty happy to rent/buy a film I want to see more then once.

You might want to consider the way you word your subject lines. I would would have used something like:
If I cannot extract recorded programs...

just sayin' -dm

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[gergi]

Um, you're talking about the Series 1. The Series 2 require you to plug in a USB ethernet adapter and ... that's it. Like he said, just plug it in.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Blakey Rat]

Too bad it doesn't work with DishNetwork as transparently. I hate cable companies, and I'm not giving them any more of my money.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[codehenge]

"grass root efforts"? Somehow I don't think American Idol needs any more exposure.

CANADA PLEASE!

[WoTG]

Any word if Tivo will EVER come to Canada? I'm itching to get either a DVD Recorder or something similar.... but I want a TIVO!

Re:CANADA PLEASE!

[Buran]

Er... they have. You can now enter a Canadian postal code at setup time and it will be recognized ... although some boxes don't ship from the factory with the Canadian software. Here's how to make it work:

Rob Cottingham Yes, you can get TiVo in Canada. Here's how to actually make it work.

I am not sure if they are actually sold in Canada yet, but either get a friend to buy you one and ship it directly or find a store that will do it.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[penguin-collective]

Thanks for the useful information. Just one more question:

It's SATA, not USB, but that's a minor nit.

I was thinking of plugging in an external USB disk. Are you saying the Tivo doesn't work with external USB disks?

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[uradu]

> Um, you're talking about the Series 1.

Um, so is he.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Zathrus]

Are you saying the Tivo doesn't work with external USB disks?

It does not, and I do not know of anyone who has hacked a TiVo to use one. I'm not up on the latest hacks, so maybe someone over at dealdatabase has done it.

Nice but..

[snakattak3]

Do you still need a landline to use the subscription. I have always wanted tivo, but do not want to get a landline. Cell phones and skype are what we use here. Thats the one thing thats kept me back from purchasing a tivo.

Re:Nice but..

[Buran]

No. New versions of the software explicitly work with network connections; older versions have a special code (#,601 or something like that) that will make it use the network connection in most cases. I was one of the unlucky ones and had to haul the box in to work to use the regular phone line there since not even the hack worked. Never did find out why.

By now, though, I'd think new units would include the new code from the factory.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[HTH NE1]

cutting the right-sized hole into the back of the unit to snap in an RJ45 socket... (or just drilling a hole into the back and running a patch cable straight from the card to the outside...)

I just bent up one of the tabs on the lid in the back and put a small patch cable to an RJ45 gender changer. No diking necessary, and no more hanging out than a USB adapter. And once expanded, there's not much need to move the unit.

Can you use in UK?

[denjin]

Does Tivo work with NTL? Not sure how cable standards differ...

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen instructions on how to use USB disks with hacked TiVos. It's simply a matter of loading the Linux USB mass storage driver and mounting the properly formatted disk.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[Kitsune78]

I call shenanigans.. I still see the red flag from time to time, always from the local fox affiliate (Fox 25 Boston) via Comcast cable in Woburn, MA. Almost always on Futurama, the Simpsons, and Family Guy.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[JoshRosenbaum]

Incidentally - why does everybody feel the need to list the TV programmes they like to record You know I always wondered about that too. You don't see me running around telling you what kind of toilet paper I use (Charmin) or anti-perspirant I use (Arid).

Yeah, and you don't see me going around talking about the kind of protection I use (Trojan) or the kind of lubrication I would use (KY)... if I had a girlfirend! It's just ridiculous and crazy! Who does those things?

Even series 2 didn't require a landline

[Anonymous Coward]

Our is connected via a USB 802.11b adapter quite happily.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[dallask]

Secret, Strong enough for a man... and that's good enough for me...

Charmin sucks

[elrous0]

I was born a Scott tissue user and I'll die a Scott tissue user.

-Eric

Motorola box?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone told me that Tivo was making software for the Motorola DVR. When I read this posting, it sounded exactly like my Motorola DVR.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[Buran]

You used to be able to order a TiVo demo DVD that you could give away to people so they could see (on their TV DVD players) how TiVo worked -- no need to explain, just say "watch this".

I gave mine to my parents. I got it back with a "We couldn't figure it out" comment. And my dad's a tenured Ph.D. at a major university (you'd have heard of it) ... sigh ...

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[javaxman]

I'm missing the appeal. Why do I have to pay a subscription to use a recording device and deal with "broadcast flags"?

I can't believe I'm still needing to say this to people years later, but here goes...

The reason for your TiVo subscription and the reason why TiVo is so great boils down to ONE feature, called "Season Pass". You select or punch in the name of a show. After that, *every* episode ( with the option of not recording repeats ) is recorded- with nothing more for you to do except watch.

Sure, you could program your VCR to come on at some given time, and make sure you have a blank tape in the machine, and do so repeatedly, but do you? Would you? How much of a pain in the ass would it be? Would it be worth $14/mo for someone to do that for you, for all of your favorite shows? As an added benefit, if you happen to just sit down and watch whatever is on, you can decide to hit pause, go do whatever, come back a few minutes later, start watching where you left off, then skip the next batch of commercials...

but it's really all about the machine knowing the programming schedule and getting you the shows you want, even if their aired at some unusual time, without you ever knowing what time it is. I'm watching "Everybody hates Chris", "Scrubs", "My Name is Earl", and really, I'm not even sure what *channel* or *day* they're on, much less what time, but it doesn't matter. I sit down, look at my list of recorded shows, *all* of which interest me, and pick one I want to watch.

There's also a similar "Wish list" feature where you punch in a keyword ( or name ) and every show with that in the description is recorded, as well as a 'suggestion' feature where shows 'like' the ones you record are also recorded. I don't use those, because I don't have time to watch even the shows I Season Pass, but with a big enough hard drive ( and enough viewing time ) it might be neat.

Oh, and so far, broadcast flags don't exist. Reported problems with commercials not being skippable and programs disappearing early have been *extremely* limited in scope, and the backlash has already been big enough that TiVo seems to have backed off on these areas completely. They'll take my TiVo from my cold, dead hands... I'd be willing to accept some sort of superior replacement, but I haven't seen or heard of one yet.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[SqueakyFerret]

For me what makes TiVo way more than "just a digital VCR" is the prioritizable season pass system. First of all, just the fact that you can, with one press of a remote button, tell it to get every episode of a show. I have no idea what time any particular show is on anymore. I don't need to care. The TiVo knows, and records it for me. If it were "just a digital VCR" you'd need to know the show's schedule, and program it into the box. And what happens if the show moves to a different time, or they show two episodes back to back one week? You'd miss it if we were talking about a VCR-like device. The TiVo knows what changed, and automatically records at the new/extra times. And I don't even have to pay attention to the show's schedule to make that happen.

It also is smart enough to know which episodes are first-run, and which are reruns. If you want reruns, you can have them. If not, it will skip them.

So it's intelligent about recording a particular show, but it's also intelligent about recording dozens of different shows. You just set them up in a prioritized list, and TiVo takes care of resolving the scheduling conflicts based on the order in which you have prioritized your shows. I love this. I only have to decide which shows I care more about than others, and TiVo will set up the recording schedule based solely on that.

I have nearly 70 season passes (a lot of those are wish lists, or passes for shows that are not on now, but I hope will come back--maybe only 30 of those passes are actively recording shows now), and if I had to manually manage when all those shows were aired, and set up the recording times individually for each, I'd never be able to keep track. That's the value of the TiVo service. I get WAY more stuff recorded for me with the service than I could ever manage to record myself, setting up the times and channels for all the individual recordings.

Do I watch all this? No. That's not the point. Lots of these shows end up being deleted unwatched. The point is to have a big library of shows waiting for me at any given moment, all of which I know I like to watch. Any show I might care to watch is there, waiting for ME, instead of me having to wait for IT.

Your wish is granted, mostly

[Anonymous Coward]

There have been known hacks to get Canadian guide data into Tivos for a long time. But Tivo's lates series 2 software update added support for Canadian postal codes and guide data, so if you can get one, series 2 Tivos already work in Canada out of the box (well, it may need to download the latest software first). You just have to go elsewhere to get the box.

I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that Tivo will launch in Canada in mid '06.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[raygundan]

Must be regional, and if you're still seeing it, they certainly haven't fixed their bug. I've been on a tivo of some sort or another since early 2000, like I said, and have *never* run into the DRM.

Never saw it on comcast, and haven't seen it on DirecTV. It's possible the DTV version of the software doesn't include the DRM stuff at all, although that seems like the sort of thing they would jump to include. They've just been notoriously slow to make software updates to their branch of the Tivo software.

MythTV vs TiVo

[Curly]

What do you use for a remote?

My biggest reluctance to moving away from TiVo is it's got the most usefully laid out remote I've ever used for watching video. When I watch a DVD or VHS I miss my TiVo remote terribly. What do people who set up their own box do for a remote----are there IR receiver cards that would let me use my TiVo remote, or am I stuck with something third-party?

Re:MythTV vs TiVo

[Yeechang Lee]

What do you use for a remote?

My biggest reluctance to moving away from TiVo is it's got the most usefully laid out remote I've ever used for watching video.

Amen and amen; it's yet another example of something TiVo got right six years ago.

If I wanted to I could use a $10 IR sensor (I can't find the address right now, but some guy sells them in USB and serial varieties for about that price) and the TiVo remote with lirc, the usual standard daemon for IR stuff in Linux. That said, I read many complaints about lirc issues and the TiVo remote just doesn't quite have all the buttons I want to have to use within MythTV. So I got myself an IR wireless keyboard + mouse ($20-40) and a universal remote (I got the super-sophisticated MX-500 for $80 but many people are happy with a $30 model) I taught the keyboard's keystrokes to. No worries with lirc with this approach; the MythTV box simply sees a keyboard.

Re:Ethernet? USB?

[Babbster]

I don't know exactly to what the AC was referring, but one thing you seem to have misunderstood was where the transcoding is going to occur. The photos from CES showing the Windows Media/PSP/iPod options are photos of the new Tivo Desktop software. Thus, the Tivo (as it does in the Series 2 boxes) will send the MPEG-2 files as-is from the Tivo to the PC where you can then transcode the files to formats compatible with other devices. They wouldn't offer transcoding within the unit for the simple reason that there wouldn't be enough CPU overhead for this to be time-efficient, especially when encoding two streams and decoding another besides.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo - fill me i

[raygundan]

No demo, short of having an actual tivo for a few weeks, is going to get it all across. Too much of the functionality that differentiates it from a VCR just doesn't sink in until you've used it for a while *and tried to switch back*.

Anymore, I find I'd rather not watch TV without a DVR. Somebody else will eventually get the little things down as well as Tivo, and a few companies have features I wish Tivo had (automatic commercial skip, the ability to speed up video) but the Tivo package is still my favorite.

You can.

[raygundan]

Since last year, you've been able to pull shows off the Series 2 Tivos. It's an mpeg2 file with a tivo DRM wrapper, although I understand the wrapper is easy to remove. Even without the hackage, it's pretty stinking easy (and supported!) to download shows and watch them on your laptop or iPod on the airplane or whatever.

I'd be surprised if the Series 3 didn't support TivoToGo, but dumber things have happened.

I have Cox

[tacokill]

I have Cox in my area. Currently, I subscribe to basic extended cable. Locals + "normal" cable content (Comedy central, CNN, etc). No premium channels. My bill is exactly $40 a month.

In my area, the Cox PVR is an extra $10/mo to rent the box plus $5/mo. for the "service". If you don't want the PVR, then you pay $10/mo just for the cable box.

While I am not saying you are wrong, I am highly suspicious of your $3.50/mo charge. My bet is that it's a lot more than that and you just haven't noticed.

Mitchum

[TubeSteak]

/.'ers rejoice

I use Mitchum because it's "So effective you could skip a day"

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Dun Malg]

I own a duel tuner DirecTivo and I've been very happy with it. My only complaint is that generally the DirecTivo lags behind the regular TiVo in terms of updates, etc. A good example of this is that my DirecTivo has USB ports on the back but no support for a USB ethernet card.

And it never will. It's actually not an issue of the DirecTivo "lagging behind", but rather an issue of DirecTV saying "no way". DirecTV wants all access to their boxes locked down TIGHT. They're deathly afraid of hackers. That means not only no Tivo2Go, but not even a network connection. They've only barely tolerated the existence of Tivobecause of customer demand. For years they've been promising/threatening to develop their own DVR platform and dump Tivo-- of course it's taken them until very recently to deploy it, and early reports on it aren't so good, so DirecTivo will be around for a while; but at the same time Tivo's presence on DirecTV receivers is solely at DirecTV's sufferance.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Anonymous Coward]

Using the same logic, why do people feel the need to tell everyone (or judge others) about the operating system/computer platform they choose?

ready to sign up today

[Unknown_monkey]

I want two, maybe 3.
I have 2 series 1 boxes with dbl drives, but on the big screen it's a comcast dvr. The tivos almost never miss the beginning or end of shows, but the comcast box doesn't seem to keep time correctly, lags on my commands, and just doesn't give me the happy experience that my tivos do.
Tivo changed my life. I find new products in the store because I don't see their ads. And when some chick exposes her chest on the superbowl, I can rewind to my heart's content.

Cable TV doesn't want you as a customer

[dustin_0099]

S-Video, and composite, and audio is optical digital or RCA stereo. ...AND they'll delete your show whenever they want to. Screw it. Rhapsody + Netflix + WoW costs far less than any cable.

Re:I a little behind the times on Tivo -fill me in

[BlaqC]

I used to be the VCR king. Filled all 8(!) slots in my VCR menu. Taped everything I wanted to watch. Had a system for everything. Spent endless amounts of time babysitting the darn thing. Then I got TiVo.

Here are some concrete examples why TiVo is worth its weight in gold:

VCR ERA

• If my VCR ran out of tape, it would rewind to the beginning (missing the end of the current show) and erase recent shows to record new ones. Result: missed/incomplete shows; 8-hour effective storage capacity unless I kept checking the tape every day.
• Even with index search, finding what was on a tape took forever (physical rewind/FF, ugh). Constantly-revised Post-its on tape box to list contents. When I found a show I wanted to see right now, watching it would fragment my tape. Result: tapes like swiss cheese, with unwatched shows interspersed among free segments. More accidental overwriting.
• Only failsafe mathod: to always watch the last show on a tape, then rewind, avoiding fragmentation. Result: forced to watch what the tape told me to watch, not what I wanted.
• Could only program 8 series in total. Who is only interested in 8 shows?
• Kept an eagle eye on the TV listings, to ensure my shows hadn't moved to another timeslot, etc. Much paranoia and effort.

TiVo ERA

• Unlimited number of program slots; we currently have 76 Season Passes, including:
  • Shows we watch.
  • Shows we like, but were cancelled. If a network later "burns off" the remaining episodes without promotion at some weird time, these last few episodes will magically appear on their own.
  • Shows that may come to Canada some day. Read about the latest craze in the US or UK (e.g. "Showbiz moms and dads"), set a Wishlist, forget about it. If the show is picked up months later, it will be recorded and magically appear on the Now Showing list.
  • Keyword-based wishlists, too. If a show description contains "PSP" or "Playstation portable", the show magically appears. See a pattern emerging?
• Controlling live TV means bathroom breaks/kitchen raids when you want, not the networks; reclaim control of your bladder! Instant replays are not only for sports fans: I constantly do instant replays of missed dialogue (husband talks over Family Guy; press one button; hear that line again; feel blood pressure go down). Does wonders for domestic harmony. And no more ducking my mother's phone calls: Michael will simply switch to some prerecorded reality show he likes, while I hang on the phone for a half-hour.
• With channels from multiple timezones (cable company's "timeshifting" package) and specialty channels' repeated airings, even a one-tuner TiVo catches most of what we want to watch. Prioritized Season Pass list ensures any unresolved conflicts affect the least interesting shows.
• If TiVo runs out of room, deletes the oldest unwatched show, by definition something we don't care about that much. You can protect recordings from erasure individually, a trivial effort.
• Channel-flipping is a thing of the past: there's always something "on" that we enjoy.

SUMMARY

Watching all the shows we love, whenever we feel like it, without having to decide whether [going out / answering the phone / going to the bathroom] is more important than whatever we'd otherwise miss, is worth WAY more than the price of admission. I hope you now understand all the ways in which TiVo is better than a VCR.

Re:Ethernet! Finally, for the love of the almighty

[Mysticalfruit]

I had heard that DirecTV had ended its relationship with TiVo and I've seen the commericals for their version of TiVo and even the commerial makes it look as though it's second rate to TiVo.

The tragety is that other than no way to get anything off of it other than to hook up some other video recorder and choosing the "Send to VCR" option it really is a great product.

A buddy of mine has the charter/comcast DVR and to put it bluntly, it's shit compared to a TiVo.