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Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools

Graeme Williams writes "Beginning Excel What-If Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver makes it easy to learn about some neat features of Excel, including the four data-analysis tools mentioned in the title. I found the book useful, but the style is dry and unadorned, and others may find it less approachable than I did. The examples around which the book is built are clear and straightforward rather than insightful, and presented plainly rather than with a lot of discussion." Read the rest of Graeme's review. Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver author Paul Cornell pages xxii + 167 publisher Apress rating 7 reviewer Graeme Williams ISBN 1-59059-591-2 summary A clear but bare introduction to a useful set of Excel tools

This book reads and feels more like a textbook than an introduction. Other beginner books are full of diagrams, icons and text in boxes. This book has almost none of that – the occasional tip or note is set off with horizontal lines. In other books, text in boxes often seems to be put there for no reason at all, but this book has exactly one diagram. Comparing this book to others, I feel as though we've lost the middle way.

The book seems to go out of its way to avoid diagrams. To fill out a dialog box, for example, the instructions are to click on the first field, type in the value, click on the second field, type in the value, and so on. I just don't understand why you wouldn't put in a screen shot, with the instructions, "Make it look like this". I don't know if screen shots weren't used because they're more expensive, or harder to translate, but if so, a table could have achieved a similar result.

Goal Seek is a simple one-variable equation solver. You put x in one cell and f(x) in another. You point Goal Seek at the two cells, give it a value of c and it attempts to solve f(x) = c. It's a simple enough feature, and the book goes through a number of straightforward examples.

The examples are relevant and clearly explained, but they seem only to be examples of themselves. They don't trigger any new ideas, and none of them jump out at you as "Neat!". I wish the author had put a little more creativity into the examples. They seem a little dry and occasionally repetitive, and don't seem to build on one another. An example shouldn't be just, "Here it is", but rather, "Here's something important to know about how it works" or "Here's an idea you can use in other places as well as here".

At the end of each chapter, there's a list of possible errors, but the suggested fixes aren't all equally helpful. If Goal Seek can't solve f(x) = c, the book suggests (page 19) changing the value of c! This is an area where a set of related examples would have been very helpful: first showing a simple example, followed by a more complicated example that fails, and finally with the failure repaired.

Data Tables are a way to automatically generate a one- or two-dimensional tables of values, given a formula and one or two sets of values. The book shows how to build data tables, going through a number of good examples, but I was somewhat mystified why this would be better than doing the same thing by hand. Building a data table by hand means you have to understand the difference between A1, $A1, A$1 and $A$1, which I guess is one reason for using the automatic mechanism. A1 and $A$1 are referred to as relative and absolute references, in case you want to google this particular mystery. But building a table by hand gives you more control over the layout. Unfortunately Microsoft has made the layout of two-dimensional data tables both odd and inflexible (the formula for the table is stuck in the upper left corner). It would have been clearer if the book had explained that the examples looked the way they did because that was the only way they could look. It would also have been useful if the book had at least briefly compared data tables to the manual equivalent.

Scenarios allow you to store versions of a spreadsheet that have different input values. This is neater than it sounds, since you can vary any number of input variables and calculate any number of output variables, including charts. You can also generate a summary sheet which tabulates the corresponding inputs and outputs. The book explains all this very well, going from a clear explanation to three good examples.

Any book with code samples risks confusion about whether the reader should type in the examples or download them, but this book crosses the line. In some examples (the most egregious example is on page 51), the discussion assumes that some cells have defined names, something that would only have been possible if the reader downloaded the example, since names were not included in the step-by-step instructions. The odd thing is that in some of the examples, the instructions DO include the defined name for each cell.

When presenting Excel examples like these, you have to deal with the possibility that a cell will have three pertinent properties: a formula, a value, and a name. This is another case where the book seems to lack a good designer who could show this graphically.

The Solver is a general-purpose equation solver that will handle multiple variables and multiple constraints. For a given function f(x1, ..., xn), the solver can either solve for f(...) = c, or maximize f(...). The book explains how to set this up, and the meaning of the dozen or so options (tolerance, maximum iterations, and so on) pretty clearly.

The Solver provides a sensitivity report (how much the result will change if one of the inputs changes fractionally), but this report is disabled if even one of the variables is restricted to whole numbers. There are two obvious ways around this: run the sensitivity analysis as though the constraint wasn't there (which would provide the counter-factual information about how much the solution would change if the whole number value changed fractionally); or run the sensitivity analysis without the restricted variables. Microsoft doesn't provide either of these workarounds, and the book doesn't discuss them either.

The sensitivity report is disabled if any variable has either an "integer" or "binary" constraint, but the book repeatedly mentions only integer constraints, which could be confusing to a beginner. It doesn't help that Microsoft gives the same error message ("Sensitivity Report and Limits Report are not meaningful for problems with integer constraints") for both cases.

The appendices are quite good – I'd almost recommend reading the book backwards. There's an overview of the data and financial analysis functions in Excel, such as average, median, floor, ceiling and mortgage payment, with enough detail to lead you to the right part of Microsoft's documentation. Another appendix describes ways of handling data that aren't discussed in the body of the book, such as Lists, Subtotals, sorting, filtering and consolidating data. These extras add a considerable amount to the usefulness of the book.

At $34.95 list, the book is expensive for an introductory book, but I'm not sure that should count against it. If you use the techniques described in the book, the time you'll save will quickly pay back the cost. On the other hand, if you need more explanation and discussion than the book provides, it's going to seem like a whole lot of money. I strongly recommend downloading the sample chapter. It will give you an excellent view of the book's strengths and weaknesses."
You can purchase Beginning Excel What-If Data Analysis Tools from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

151 comments

  1. I'll tell you what ... by eldavojohn · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... once Excel switches to open document formats, I'll switch to opening documents about it.

    Until then, I'm probably not going to pick up this book.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:I'll tell you what ... by EvilSS · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Then why even bother commenting about it? I mean, if you won't open a document about it (oh so clever, btw) why feel compelled to tell the world?

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:I'll tell you what ... by Stelminator · · Score: 1

      isn't all of MS Office due to switch to (compressed) XML-based files in the next release?

      so, I guess you'll be reading this book sometime in the next couple of years?

    3. Re:I'll tell you what ... by GogglesPisano · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you do any work at all in the financial industry, you'll find that Excel can't be that easily dismissed. It is simply *the* essential application for large segments of the workforce.

      It must also be admitted that in the hands of an experienced user (and at the banks that I do work for, there are some serious Excel power users) Excel is an impressive application. The open source spreadsheets that I've seen (e.g., OpenOffice Calc and Gnumeric), while fine for casual use, don't even come close to matching Excel in this arena.

    4. Re:I'll tell you what ... by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People complain about things they don't like, especially ones that they can't really avoid running into, such as MS Office Suite apps... and posts on Slashdot complaining about things someone doesn't like.

    5. Re:I'll tell you what ... by Le+Marteau · · Score: 1

      I agree. Having Excel (and Word) on your box is nice. World class, gold standard software. It gives me the warm and fuzzies.

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    6. Re:I'll tell you what ... by Montecristo6 · · Score: 1

      [rant]
      I work in the finacial industry, and I know Excel/VBA/COM all too well. I also choose to do everything but the basic data acquisition and inspection using proper tools (Python and R, in my case). In fact, I take Excel's ubiquity as yet another piece of evidence that the majority of those toiling in the finance vineyard are numerically illiterate. The fundamental problem is that a spreadsheet conflates data and analytics, the cardinal sin in anything above a throw-away script; surely you know that, if you ever had to maintain a large non-trivial sheet. Another obvious flaw is that the spreadsheet is a Flatland, with nothing but 2D arrays (sure, writing VBA/VB or tacking on something more serious using COM resolves this problem, but why drag the ball-and-chain of Excel's baroque object model around to begin with?). Moving on to the actual implementation, Excel's Frankenstein nature, with all sorts of grafts, add-ons and arbitrary limitations always terrified me. Out of the essential applications we run here, this is the one that has someone pounding the table in frustration more often than everything else put together. In summary, Excel is horrendously overused, probably because it presents a seductive shallow-learning-curve alternative and traps people in a sub-optimal situation, where they spend time cobling workarounds together once the going gets tough, instead of doing real work.
      [/rant]

      --
      "I am just a customs officer; but I, too, wish to understand what is going on" -- Bertold Brecht
    7. Re:I'll tell you what ... by squidfood · · Score: 1
      I also choose to do everything but the basic data acquisition and inspection using proper tools (Python and R, in my case).

      Me too, but one must realize that basic data acquisition and inspection can be 90% of the project (for me, it's usually lots of pivot table playing to figure out what the data looks like and what I want it to look like, then a quick R script to get it that way). As you say, the trick is knowing when to switch.

    8. Re:I'll tell you what ... by bit01 · · Score: 1

      You're exaggerating.

      OOo Calc has more than 360 functions, full scripting in multiple languages, DataPilot, charting, graphics and a user interface similar to M$Excel.

      While M$Excel, depending on the individual application, may be the better choice, your comment "don't even come close" is mistaken.

      ---

      Are you thinking long term? Just because a TCO may be good in the short term doesn't mean it's good in the long term.

  2. Must be a large tome by mustafap · · Score: 1, Troll

    To fit that title on the cover.

    --
    Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
  3. WTF? by jawtheshark · · Score: 0, Troll

    Excel? Has this site become "News for Accountants, Figures that matter"???

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    1. Re:WTF? by Pantero+Blanco · · Score: 1

      I know architects for a metal building company that use spreadsheets on a regular basis. Not Excel, though...Last I checked, they didn't want to move from Lotus.

    2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Chemical Engineers are pretty much nerds. We use Excel for data analysis all the time.

    3. Re:WTF? by jwocky · · Score: 1

      I call excel the ultimate mba tool. if data isn't in excel then it just doesn't exist. not that it's a bad tool, it's just not always approprate. At my current job we had some cowboy excel "programmers" that practically made relational databases out of excel books. i've been there almost two years now and i still haven't gotton all of the nightmare excel "applications" convereted to access. even when it's in access, i need to provide a button on every form in order to dump data back out to excel.

    4. Re:WTF? by Neoprofin · · Score: 1

      I work for a recycling company and all of our theoretical input and output is calculated on excel as well as I'm sure a number of things on the financial end (that I have absolutely nothing to do with)

    5. Re:WTF? by AngryNick · · Score: 1
      Geek Supremacist. Accountants can be nerds too.

      See Tax Technology.

    6. Re:WTF? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      Next time, I'll try to use a smile so that all the humour impaired understand that I was joking. I worked for over five years in banking and know quite well that Excel is a capable tool and that accountants can be more nerdy than I am.

      (Replied to your comment because, I found your comment the funniest one.... Geek Supremacist... Hilarious!)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    7. Re:WTF? by sam_van · · Score: 1
      By the same token, I frequently have to deal with ridiculously cludged together Access databases that took months to develop that should have instead been done via an Excel Workbook with a well thought out data structure and user interface. Excel also affords a great deal of quick-and-dirty ability to drill down and manipulate data that Access can't offer most users (especially with Pivots).

      Excel is great for simple data analysis/tracking work--including simple, single user database applications. Access is great for slightly more complex, single user database applications only. Neither should be used for anything that requires multiple users, which is what leads people to bitch and moan about "M$ Applications Suxoring".

      And by the way, I'd rather unravel an Excel nightmare than a clapped together Access database any day.

      --
      Thinking of starting a business in Minnesota? Me too! mnsmall.biz
    8. Re:WTF? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I am an accountant, you insensitive clod!

      Seriously, though, IAAA. There are plenty of people like me who belong to both sets. I'd even say that the proportion of nerds is just as high, if not higher, in analytical accountancy than it is in, say, web development. Weren't actuaries the prototypical nerd of the last century, and didn't they drive a lot of the computing advances of the time? Don't forget your roots, man.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    9. Re:WTF? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      I know my roots... Most definately. I owe my computer science degree to an accountant (okay, "Master in Economical Sciences") which is my dad. One of my first encounters with computers were spreadsheets: My dad was working in Symphony (remember that? No? Oh, well... Youngster!) and I as a curious kid wanted to know what was so special about it. He found no better way to explain it to me to show me how to budget my allowance.

      My dad is the perfect accounting-geek and I owe him a lot. Not only my computer degree, but I also owe him financial responsibility, the ability to get my paperwork done efficiently and the mania to keep lists about everything and nothing.

      I just find it sad that most people didn't understand that I was joking in my original post. Seems I hit a nerve and was thus labelled "Troll".

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    10. Re:WTF? by AngryNick · · Score: 1
      Sorry to lash out like that...it's part of my online persona.

      I've been surrounded by nerdy accountants for the last 13 years. I'm thinking of buying the book for them so I can get out of my role as the local Spreadsheet B!tch for the Excel challenged.

    11. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you mention Lotus, my father runs finances at a somewhat large company and he too holds onto Lotus like it's gold. I guess old habits die hard.

  4. Because ... by eldavojohn · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    a) It's slashdot, it's not "the world."
    b) As a nerd, slashdot is one of the few places I can voice my angst and fustration
    c) Said angst and frustration is actually understood here
    d) I want people to know that I want an open document format and I want them to want it also

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Because ... by EvilSS · · Score: 0, Troll

      Your angst? You are so disturbed by Microsoft Office that it causes you angst? Christ, did Windows XP cause you to seek therapy? Do you loose sleep at night over Internet Explorer? I mean, it upsets you so much that you feel the need to share your angst with others in a comment about a book review?

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  5. Excel by mysqlrocks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As much as it is in fashion to bash Microsoft, I must say they did a very good job with Excel. No matter how well you think you know the program, you most likely have more to learn. So many times I've had people ask me how to do something in Excel/VBA and I tell them, "Don't use VBA - that feature is already built into Excel". So, before you DIY try reading up on some of the features of Excel.

    As I side note, I use to teach Excel to an adult student who just didn't "get" some of the concepts. Every session he would ask me, "what's this I-F function for again?" He didn't even get that it was the IF function and not the I-F function as if I and F were letters of an acronym. Let me tell you, that was frustrating every class.

    1. Re:Excel by ivan256 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No matter how well you think you know the program, you most likely have more to learn.

      Yup, that speaks volumes to how well the user interface was designed. Kudos!

    2. Re:Excel by mysqlrocks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yup, that speaks volumes to how well the user interface was designed. Kudos!

      Well designed programs make it very easy to just jump in and start working. This creates a bit of a paradox. Once the user has discovered the boundaries of the "it just works" parts of the application they often don't wander into more advanced areas of the application. This may seem like bad interface design, but what's the alternative? Make it obvious to the user what all of the features are right upfront? If you dumped all of the features of Excel on the average user the first time they opened the application they would become extremely overwhelmed. You need to ease a user into an application, make them feel like it's simple and easy to use and then slowly unveil the more advanced features. The risk is that users stop looking once they've got the application to do the basic things the user wants out of it. Then, later on, when the user wants more advanced features they assume those features don't exist in the application they were using because of course they would have seen it! So, what do they do? The start exploring VBA or try and find another program to buy while all-along those features are a few mouse clicks away! Oh, and how the hell did you trick me into defending Micro$oft?

    3. Re:Excel by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and how the hell did you trick me into defending Micro$oft?

      I don't know, but you use some intereesting logic...

      You need to ease a user into an application, make them feel like it's simple and easy to use and then slowly unveil the more advanced features.

      Fair enough...

      Then, later on, when the user wants more advanced features they assume those features don't exist in the application they were using because of course they would have seen it!

      Ok, now you lost me. Why does it have to be hard to make a user see that there are more advanced features available that you're just not using yet? Even if you can come up with a good reason why, what's a good reason for making it nearly impossible to figure out on your own how to use the more advanced features, or even what those features are? The interface should point the user in the direction of the more advanced features as part of basic interaction with the application. This can be done without intimidating the novice user, or annoying the advanced user simply by having uniformity in the interface design. Unfortunatly, Excel (which, admitedly was once an incredible tool that I made a healthy living with) has become a morass of hastily implemented modern UI design bolted on top of layers and layers of legacy crap. There are even features in there for backwards compatible support with older worksheets implemented in such a way that those older features run, but you can't change, disable, or interact with them. I don't know why they bothered, because in general backwards compatibility in Excel is pretty much a joke, but... Try unlinking worksheets that were linked in Excel 4 under Excel 2000 or XP. Even an expert would be hard pressed to do it, and that's just one example. Microsoft seems to be so rushed to push it's customers through the forced upgrade cycle that they have destroyed the product. It's pretty depressing, because you could take Excel from 10 years ago and it would be a Best-in-Class product today. I'm not sure I can say that about the current version, and if I could it would only be because the competition has all died off.

    4. Re:Excel by mysqlrocks · · Score: 1

      Microsoft seems to be so rushed to push it's customers through the forced upgrade cycle that they have destroyed the product. It's pretty depressing, because you could take Excel from 10 years ago and it would be a Best-in-Class product today.

      I think we're on a similar page here. Microsoft has "upgraded" and added "features" to a product that was already pretty well complete. They took a product that worked and broke it. Why? It goes back to my original point. Users get stuck and don't think to look beyond the few features they've gotten comfortable with. Telling users that "all the features you need are already there" doesn't work when you're asking them to fork out money for an upgrade. Why would users pay money for an upgrade if there aren't new features? MS answer was to shove more, unnecessary features into the product or repackage existing features in a way that could be sold as a "new" feature.

    5. Re:Excel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try AMPL. The basic edition is available for free at www.ampl.com. AMPL is superior to Excel's Solver. Moreover, problems are easier to set up in AMPL than Excel. Also, there is a way for AMPL to read in data in Excel (check the AMPL site). Excel's Solver is for amateur's only.

    6. Re:Excel by ILUsion.be · · Score: 1

      I do agree on the fact that Excel is a great program, it always amazes me with all its built-in functions; but as with other Microsoft programs, it does has its flaws: first of all, it is a hassle to work in two different language versions of the program Excel itself. In other Office programs, this doesn't pose a problem, but in Excel the programmers have chosen to translate the functions usedin the cells. For exemple, when one would use "=SUM(A1:B12)" in the English version, one have to type "=SOM(A1:B12" in a Dutch version (notice the difference O/U according to the language). A less subtle exemple might be "=AVERAGE(A1:B12)" which would translate to "=GEMIDDELDE(A1:B12)". So if one (meaning "me") is used to work on an English version of Excel and that same person would have to make an Excel document say at work or at school where the native language is most often used, one has to look for the right words for the functions. That is what I find the major flaw of Excel, which also happens to make it more comprehensible for beginners who aren't native English speakers. I would rather like Excel to accept the English terms in every version of Excel (this wouldn't be that much of work, since an Excel file isn't language-dependent) and to have a language extension for each translated version with the renamed functions in it.

      Then, second, one of the flaws, which I can't really attribute to Excel itself but to the ease of use of Excel: many users abuse Excel by making a database in it. I just hate when that happens, I personally prefer programs which have a much steeper and longer learning curve which causes the user to be less productive at start but in long term the user will know what he's doing and will be more trained to solve new problems on his own.

    7. Re:Excel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, that speaks volumes to how well the user interface was designed. Kudos!

      Well, at least it was better designed than the G++ user interface.

    8. Re:Excel by rajafarian · · Score: 1

      Why would users pay money for an upgrade if there aren't new features? MS answer was to shove more, unnecessary features into the product or repackage existing features in a way that could be sold as a "new" feature.

      Hey, hey. MS has approx $40 billion in the bank. You come up with your own scheme to get sheep to give you their money!

    9. Re:Excel by Red+Alastor · · Score: 1
      In other Office programs, this doesn't pose a problem, but in Excel the programmers have chosen to translate the functions usedin the cells.
      Hear, hear. I learned on a french version of Excel and I found it very annoying too. Functions should keep their original names, same as in programming languages. However, Microsoft almost got it right. The files are all saved the same, the translation is performed on the fly. It would have been easy to make it optional.
      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
    10. Re:Excel by johansalk · · Score: 1

      Excel is crap! Here's the Abstract from a statisticians' report: "The open source spreadsheet package "Gnumeric" was such a good clone of Microsoft Excel that it even had errors in its statistical functions similar to those in Excel's statistical functions. When apprised of the errors in v1.0.4, the developers of Gnumeric indicated that they would try to fix the errors. Indeed, Gnumeric v1.1.2, has largely fixed its flaws, while Microsoft has not fixed its errors through many successive versions. Persons who desire to use a spreadsheet package to perform statistical analyses are advised to use Gnumeric rather than Excel." (ps, I'm not linking to the site so it doesn't get slashdotted, but the interested reader can google it)

    11. Re:Excel by penguin-collective · · Score: 1

      As much as it is in fashion to bash Microsoft, I must say they did a very good job with Excel.

      Yes, they did an excellent job ripping off spreadsheet programs developed by their competitors in the 1980's.

      No matter how well you think you know the program, you most likely have more to learn. So many times I've had people ask me how to do something in Excel/VBA and I tell them, "Don't use VBA - that feature is already built into Excel". So, before you DIY try reading up on some of the features of Excel.

      So, you are saying that the program requires a lot of study, that its functionality is so unobvious that people think of reimplementing something in VBA before using built-in Excel functionality, and that people can't even tell from the user interface what features it has. You know what, you are absolutely right: your experience agrees with mine. But that's not a description of a well-designed program or user interface.

      Excel is a prototypical example of the kind of stagnation that results from a monopoly. In the 1980's and 1990's, there were a number of attempts to develop better spreadsheet-like software, but Microsoft Office killed them through Microsoft's market dominance. It's truly depressing that in the 21st century, we are still stuck with that sort of garbage.

  6. reading it backwards by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Funny

    The appendices are quite good. I'd almost recommend reading the book backwards.

    .ehcadaeh a em evag tsuj ti tub ,ecno taht deirt I wonk uoY

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:reading it backwards by Tychon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Off topic, but reading backwards is a handy way to proof read a book. Your mind will fix many errors on its own; reading it backwards forces you to observe what you're reading as you're reading it.

      And I mean starting at the bottom of the page and reading up, not like you've typed.

      ?on, nuf si llits siht tuB

  7. I imagine by revery · · Score: 1

    I imagine a good bit of the book is taken up by repetition of the title:

    In Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver we're going to show you how to use some of Excel's What-if Data Analysis Tools. Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver is written with the beginner in mind, but if you are coming to Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver as an intermediate user, we have something for you. Even if you are coming to Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver as an advanced user, we believe that you will come away with something useful. So let's get started with Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver.

    P.S.
    I had a lot of fun writing Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver, and I hope you have as much fun reading it.

    1. Re:I imagine by Bravoc · · Score: 1

      Missed a couple!

      P.S. I had a lot of fun writing Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver, and I hope you have as much fun reading Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver, as I had writing Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools: Getting Started with Goal Seek, Data Tables, Scenarios, and Solver./p?

  8. Good luck w/OO Calc by everphilski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Calc sucks. You can't do a tenth of the stuff you can do in Excel in Calc. And I'm not even talking about VBA scripting. Sure, you can make a table with your friends names, their screen names, their favorite colors and their girl friends, but try doing some hardcore data analysis and you will be left dead in the water.

    1. Re:Good luck w/OO Calc by bit01 · · Score: 1

      Calc sucks.

      You can't do a tenth of the stuff you can do in Excel in Calc.

      And I'm not even talking about VBA scripting.

      Sure, you can make a table with your friends names, their screen names, their favorite colors and their girl friends, but try doing some hardcore data analysis and you will be left dead in the water.

      You are mistaken.

      Calc has more than 360 functions including a variety of data analysis functions, full scripting in several languages, DataPilot, charting and graphics.

      If Excel can be said to do "hard core data analysis" at all then Calc does as well.

  9. engineering by everphilski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    its a good post-analysis tool for looking at data sets and drawing some conclusions. Like monte carlo analysis and stuff.

    Or a stand-alone simulation, when a fullup C++ program is overkill but you can't quite do it on your calculator... (or sliderule for those of you a few years older than me)

  10. Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Can it handle more than 65K records yet?

    How about field limitations?

    It couldn't even handle a small dataset the last time I tried it.

    1. Re:Excel? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      It's really great, within its range.
      If you use ADODB to query a spreadsheet (as in through a linked table within Access, for example), you start to see "interesting" behavior for cells with >255 characters. Got to use the API and touch each cell explicitely.
      Is that bad? No: if your PHB uses Excel to paper over his non-command of Word tables, you've probably got bigger headaches. ;)
      Excel has reasonable max column/row limitations. If you're encountering them on any regular basis, you application may require a proper database.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    2. Re:Excel? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In a world where you can buy desktop PCs with 2+GB memory, is there any reason to support only 64k rows?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Excel? by Orne · · Score: 3, Informative

      Currently, Excel handles 256 columns x 65536 rows... anything larger, and you need to be working in Access. However, if your data fits those limitations, Excel is (IMHO) the best analyst tool under our sun.

      Excel 12 (aka Office 2003, currently in development) will have 16k columns x 1M rows. I found information here on the new limits.

    4. Re:Excel? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
      aka Office 2003, currently in development

      Odd... I have Office 2003 on this machine and it's not a beta version. I rarely use it, I only have it because my job requires it. For all my personal stuff, I use OpenOffice.org

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    5. Re:Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current Excel is also limited to a 56 color palette. Granted, this isn't a big deal to me, but try telling that to your boss who MUST have this cell a specific color...

    6. Re:Excel? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I sure hope they fix the slowdown problems when dealing with 150+ columns. I spend a lot of time sitting and waiting when I want to add fields to my largest spreadsheet, even longer when I need to do a recalc.

      /Access is verboten in my office, since the PHBs can't use it.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    7. Re:Excel? by iamlucky13 · · Score: 1

      If you find Oracle, or Access, or PostgreSQL easier to use for manipulating small sets of primarily numerical data, feel free to use them. Honestly, though, I think there might be a reason why Excel is classified as a spreadsheet instead of a database.

    8. Re:Excel? by kaotao · · Score: 1

      Office 2003 is the one that was released in 2003. Office "12", that the parent mentions with the larger limits, is the unreleased version after 2003.

    9. Re:Excel? by nojomofo · · Score: 1

      You really don't want more than 255 characters in a cell. Lots of the functions just don't work. You also start running into very weird bugs (particularly when using VBA) when the workbook gets above a certain size. Things just stop working.

    10. Re:Excel? by samotano · · Score: 1

      Excel is decent all-purpose spreadsheet, but it excels in nothing. Until a few years ago, Excel had serious well-proven flaws in certain algorithms contained in the Analysis toolpack as well as they way it approximates number. Let alone the help section, which contained many errors. I was told it hasn't changed much. If you are serious on data analysis, inferential analysis, decision making, scenarios generation etc. you should investigate what other options are available.
      Most likely you will find a package that specializes in your area. To me, if you say you're truly serious about, say, data analysis and still use Excel, clearly I would be highly skeptical about your results.

      The reasons so many people use Excel is because they feel confortable with it and/or it is the only software package they know.

      P.S. Someone suggested 2+2*3=12 when done with a calculator and ==8 when done in Excel. This is a fairly basic issue: in a calculator you can only do one operation at a time, so first you type 2+2 then you multiply the result by 3. In Excel (or Matlab or Maple, or SAS or R or SPLUS or Stata or...) you have to use appropriate mathematical notation whereby multiplication and division takes precedent over addition and substraction. So there is a difference between (2+2)*3 and 2+2*3

    11. Re:Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent. Built-in limitations to get you to buy another of their products!!!

      Bill G is a GENIUS!!!!!!!!

    12. Re:Excel? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      Well, I wouldn't accuse MS of not trying to drive hardware sales, but, maybe there isn't a business case to change the application? I'm sure the market is well-modeled in a spreadsheet somewhere in Redmont. ;)

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    13. Re:Excel? by frank249 · · Score: 1

      Currently, Excel handles 256 columns x 65536 rows... anything larger, and you need to be working in Access. However, if your data fits those limitations, Excel is (IMHO) the best analyst tool under our sun.

      Sorry, Quatro Pro can have millions of rows and has had this feature for the past several versions. It also has better charting and data analysis/stats. It has had problems in the past importing excel spreadsheets but the latest version seems to import excel with no problems.

      There are times when it has really come in handy. For example, I wanted to copy some tables from a web page. Excel and Word refused to format the data as a table and instead tried to put it all in one cell. By comparison, it copied just fine into Quatro Pro.

      --

      Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

    14. Re:Excel? by nmb3000 · · Score: 1

      Excel 12 (aka Office 2003, currently in development) will have 16k columns x 1M rows.

      Well, let's take a look-see.

      * Fires up Excel 12 Beta 1 *

      Hey, neat! Looky there, it's true. XFD1048576... what a cell reference :)

      Excel does act a little weird when you get down to the last 20 or so rows/columns. It starts having a hard time drawing the window resulting in a lot of black boxes. Odd, but not really unexpected in the first beta.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
  11. Don't mod parent flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is entirely true. The pivottable equivalent (datapilot) is very flaky, often erasing sheet areas, and the graph options even are awful.

    As much as I have tried to use Calc, I need some of the power of Excel.

  12. WTF?-"Money just wants to be free". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Excel? Has this site become "News for Accountants, Figures that matter"???"

    Not as long as we belive everything should be free.

  13. Calc by squoozer · · Score: 1

    I'd be interested to know how much of what is covered in this book is also supported by Calc. While I realize that this book is about Excel I am also interested to know how portable the knowledge I would gleen from it is.

    --
    I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    1. Re:Calc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Unless you're planning on getting really sparkly and shiny as a result of reading the book, I think you are talking about 'gleaning' knowledge.

  14. Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by borkus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Having used Excel for over a dozen years, I'm still saddened by how few folks use it for more than a poor man's database. Even basic mathematical tasks - making a budget, figuring out the total cost of a purchase - escape most people. The features covered in the book are truly powerful, but probably too complex for over 90% of Excel's userbase.

    I was a software trainer for five years and I ran into many adult students whose lack of math skills kept them from using many of Excel's features. Now, for students without college degrees, I didn't assume too many math skills. However, even folks with four-year degrees would shock me. One time as I was showing students how to use the Auto-Sum tool, one student asked me if there was an "auto-percent" tool.

    I was puzzled, "Do you mean formatting percentages? We'll cover that later in the class".

    "No, my boss asked me to add up some numbers and then show the percent each one is of the total. Is there a tool for that?"

    "Um, you mean the division operator?" I then proceeded to show her how she could divide the individual numbers against the total to get their share of the total. It wasn't a bad question, since it let me show the rest of the class how to combine formulas (which they had learned earlier) and functions. The scary thing is that the student had just graduated that past spring with a degree in finance.

    1. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by davez0r · · Score: 1

      i had a coworker who ran peoples' statistics (SPSS) for them for their theses and dissertations. she thought excel sucked until i pointed out that it was giving her incorrect values because she was using the sum tool incorrectly.

      i think that was the first time i ever called someone a noob IRL

    2. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      And I've run Excel on a finite data set and had the highest datum listed in the 100th percentile, as well as having data listed in fractional percentiles. Does the current version of Excel do this?

    3. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      "The scary thing is that the student had just graduated that past spring with a degree in finance.

      I don't see what that is scary that they asked you this. If they are in finance...they most likely have to calculate a LOT of percentages, and were probably just inquiring for a way to simplify their task.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    4. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by penguin-collective · · Score: 1

      Having used Excel for over a dozen years, I'm still saddened by how few folks use it for more than a poor man's database. Even basic mathematical tasks - making a budget, figuring out the total cost of a purchase - escape most people.

      There are two simple reasons for that: (1) Excel isn't very good at mathematical and statistical tasks, and (2) Excel's user interface for such tasks sucks.

      The scary thing is that the student had just graduated that past spring with a degree in finance.

      She probably knew how to compute percentages, but she didn't know how to do it in Excel. The fault there is with Excel, not her.

    5. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Finance majors should be spreadsheet jockeys, they should be the ones teaching the Excel class teacher how to use some obscure feature in Excel. They shouldn't even have to think about how to calc a percent of a list; they should be able to recite at least two different ways to do this. What would you think of a coder who asked if there was a hello world library on their first day of class?

      If you are ever evaluating a finance person give them a system with Excel open and a short list of tasks, if they touch the mouse choose someone else. When I was in full game form, we used to swap keystrokes to paste special: values or formats without touching the mouse because it was too slow.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    6. Re:Excel - now more that just Word with gridlines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, yeah. She somehow sucked enough dicks to get a finance degree without learning basic spreadsheet skills, and that's Excel's fault?

  15. Good luck w/spreadsheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "but try doing some hardcore data analysis and you will be left dead in the water."

    People who do "hardcore data analysis" will not be using a spreadsheet anyway.

    1. Re:Good luck w/spreadsheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who do "hardcore data analysis" will not be using a spreadsheet anyway.

      It depends on the application. Excel has several points in its favor, including portability (particularly if the end result is meant to be used by non-programmers who are unlikely to have Matlab, etc.), real-time updates, visibility of processing (the source of most outputs can be viewed just by clicking on the cell), GUI features built into the the file, etc. Excel provides a lot of powerful functions that can be used to develop complex but accessible tools (and without even using VBA, pivot tables, etc).

      My only complaint is that the Analysis Toolpak is not enabled by default. Well, that and it only supports 10-bit signed binary fields unless you perform perform the necessary binary math to get multiple 9-bit unsigned binary fields to work together as larger binary fields... And more conditional formatting/display options would be nice... But for something made by Microsoft, it is actually quite useful.

  16. What-if Excel by fossa · · Score: 1

    What if Excel didn't implement its own window manager and actually allowed one to view two windows side by side in the fashion one has already learned? What if Excel allowed one to save to a folder with a "[" in the name, which Windows happily allows one to create? What if Excel didn't have math errors (or so the Gnumeric people claim). What if Excel had a dynamic transpose function? What if Excel had used MEAN() instead of AVERAGE()?

    1. Re:What-if Excel by dwhitman · · Score: 1

      My favorite "what if": What if copy/cut/paste worked in Excel like it does in every other Windows program? It drives me crazy that the stupid clipboard forgets what you copied if you do anything other than paste.

    2. Re:What-if Excel by jgc7 · · Score: 1

      What if Excel had used MEAN() instead of AVERAGE()?
      Excel autochanges avg() to average(). One less keystroke
      What if Excel had a dynamic transpose function?
      Paste special->transpose or using the index or offset functions can achieve the result with links.

      --
      70% of statistics are made up.
  17. Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by winkydink · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once you learn how to use pivot tables, your entire perspective on Excel changes from "Word with Gridlines" to poor man's database.

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  18. reviewer doesn't under linear programming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    if he did, he would understand why the "workarounds" he proposes to perform a sensitivity analysis of an integer programming problem are meaningless.

    take a look at The Science of Decision Making: A Problem-based Approach Using Excel by Eric Denardo if you are serious about doing data analysis with Excel.

  19. re: ac by everphilski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    People who do "hardcore data analysis" will not be using a spreadsheet anyway.

    At its price point Excel makes a good post-processing data analysis tool. Its no matlab but its several thousand dollars cheaper.

  20. Ever used Excel in another language? by jawtheshark · · Score: 3, Informative
    What if Excel had used MEAN() instead of AVERAGE()?

    Now, I know this is a joke... Still, have you ever used Excel in, say, French? The formula will not be =AVERAGE(A1:A10). No, it will be =MOYENNE(A1:A10). It makes it hell to find what functions you want. I can cope with multilingual menus, but multilingual functions are impossible.

    Note that the functions are compatible: AVERAGE will show MOYENNE when opening it in a French Excel. Luckily... ;-) Oh, and OpenOffice replicates this behaviour. Very annoying, but I suppose that it's good for the end-users.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  21. What!? by twfry · · Score: 1

    This is slashdot, there can be nothing useful or beneficial about any of Microsoft's products.

  22. Logic simulations by jabelar · · Score: 1

    I work in semiconductor design, and a boss of mine 15 years ago used to simulate state machines in Excel. Each row was a clock cycle, each column was a state variable, and each cell was the contained the logic. There are of course many state machine design tools, but for quick discussions he could prove a lot of points in meetings just with Excel.

    1. Re:Logic simulations by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I think a book on this topic might be more meaningful.

  23. Re:Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by TerenceRSN · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeah, pivot tables are great. But what's also handy and AFAIK pretty new is the easy ability to make quick lists from your spreadsheets. Adding a list creates filter options at the top and gives you a totals row at the bottom. It's like pivot tables lite and it's great for sorting through data quickly.

    I do time tracking in Excel and it's simple to select one customer or one project with the lists and see a total of hours for the week.

  24. Re:Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by sam_van · · Score: 1
    Right-o!

    At my last two companies I've been the first in my group to do any sort of pivot based reporting. Between the ability to drill down and swap criteria on the fly, I get all sorts of awed looks and positive comments.

    This usually leads me to run a couple of informal classes for the department, which, in the end frees up my time since everyone is busy doing their own analysis...meaning I can spend my time on more important stuff, like Slashdot.

    --
    Thinking of starting a business in Minnesota? Me too! mnsmall.biz
  25. Data analysis by arthas · · Score: 1

    Have a look at ROOT. It is an object oriented data analysis framework with a C++ interpreter. It provides you with very powerful tools for doing all kinds of plotting (histograms and stuff), doing fits to data and storing data (so called ROOT files), etc... In addition to that it is free software (the latest version is licensed under the LGPL). It may not seem as easy to use as Matlab, but in the end I think ROOT is a lot more powerful.

    On the other hand most secretaries and people like that would not find writing C++ scripts all that fun...

    1. Re:Data analysis by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Or, uh, I could just use Excel...

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Data analysis by everphilski · · Score: 1

      Eh, if I am going to go all the way to C++ we have tools here at work we use...

      for post-processing I use a mix of Excel and some in-house tools. All I was trying to say is Excel isn't a bad tool for dumping off some data and drawing some conclusions, or staring with an idea and drawing some ballpark answers. Its not the be-all and end-all but its a good start.

    3. Re:Data analysis by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But what about Linux users? Are they just supposed to use Excel?

    4. Re:Data analysis by Moofie · · Score: 1

      They can do whatever they want. I find Excel is the best tool for a large number of tasks. I don't really understand why other people would want me to stop using the tools I'm familiar with, and use tools that are either less capable or more complicated. Seems like a pretty silly thing to me.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:Data analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also like ROOT. I've worked with other analysis/plotting packages (Igor, Sigmaplot, Origin, etc.), but they can't touch ROOT's power and flexibility. I use it for almost all of my published data figures. For online display and control of live experiments, it works with Qt. Also check out the Python bindings.

    6. Re:Data analysis by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Who was asking you to stop using Excel? arthas recommended looking at ROOT, not abandoning your current spreadsheet.

    7. Re:Data analysis by Moofie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, I'm gonna rush right out and examine something that "...may not seem as easy to use as Matlab,"

      Matlab is an astonishingly powerful application, but the ease-of-use factor is not there. And we're being told that this ROOT thing is more powerful and less user friendly?

      Uh huh. If I need to use Matlab, I'll use Matlab. If I need something less powerful than Matlab, I'll use Excel. More powerful than Matlab...what the hell are you going to do with that kind of power? I'm sure somebody has a problem that's too big for Matlab, but I'm glad it's not my job to get my brain around those.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    8. Re:Data analysis by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      I'll guess that arthas was more impressed by its being free and available for Linux.

    9. Re:Data analysis by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Uh huh.

      You don't always get what you pay for, but in this case? I'm delighted to pay for OS X and Excel.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    10. Re:Data analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm an engineer and I don't like writing C++ either. I'd much rather concentrate on determining if my hardware graphics algorithm is correct rather than figuring out why gcc won't compile my program.

    11. Re:Data analysis by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      FYI, some of the stuff you can do in Matlab, you can also do in GNU Octave (which, IIRC, started out as a Matlab clone -- its syntax is largely compatible with Matlab's) just as easily.

  26. Excell is buggy! by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 2, Funny

    Try this in a calculator: 2+2*2. Every dipshit knows that 2+2 = 4, and then 4 * 2 is 8.

    Now type it in Excel and it gives you 6!

    1. Re:Excell is buggy! by VisiX · · Score: 1

      This is a joke right?

      Open up windows calculator and put it on scientific and you get 6. Every scientific calculator in the world will give you 6. Order of operations in mathematics dictates * before +.

      I'm sorry for the explanation if this was actually a really poor joke instead of the uneducated rant I assumed it to be.

    2. Re:Excell is buggy! by dantheman82 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good thing you never learned order of operations. First (), then * and /, then + and -, etc. Oh, and learn how to spell Excel - it really is like kicking yourself when you're down.

      --
      This sig donated to Pater. Long live /.
    3. Re:Excell is buggy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a joke, right? I hope that's a joke.

    4. Re:Excell is buggy! by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      "This is a joke right?"

      Yea it's in fact an old Excel joke I thought everyone knew.

      But instead I come back, find the post modded -1 Troll, and about a bunch of posts carefully explaining operator precedence to me.

      So the joke's on me :)

    5. Re:Excell is buggy! by the+chao+goes+mu · · Score: 1

      Actually, as a forth programmer, I can tell you 2 + is a stack underflow error, 2 * is also a stack underflow error, and then 2 is 2. So the answer is 2.

      --
      Boys from the City. Not yet caught by the Whirlwind of Progress. Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
    6. Re:Excell is buggy! by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      "Actually, as a forth programmer, I can tell you 2 + is a stack underflow error, 2 * is also a stack underflow error, and then 2 is 2. So the answer is 2."

      Good. But 2 = 6 so I guess both Excel and you are right:

      Suppose:
              a + b = c
      Multiply the equation by 4:
              4a + 4b = 4c
      This can be written as:
              6a - 2a + 6b - 2b = 6c - 2c
      Reorganising:
              6a + 6b - 6c = 2a + 2b - 2c
      Constants before brackets:
              6 * (a+b-c) = 2 * (a+b-c)
      Remove the same term left/right:
              6 = 2

    7. Re:Excell is buggy! by onemorehour · · Score: 1

      yup. lots of crazy things happen when you divide by zero.

      (a+b-c = 0)

    8. Re:Excell is buggy! by Stan+Vassilev · · Score: 1

      "yup. lots of crazy things happen when you divide by zero." :P You guys keep spoiling my fun, but prove that wrong then:

      You have one haystack. If you add one more haystack to it, the result is again one haystack.

      Therefore, 1 + 1 = 1

    9. Re:Excell is buggy! by _archangel · · Score: 1
      Good. But 2 = 6 so I guess both Excel and you are right:

      Suppose:
      a + b = c
      Multiply the equation by 4:
      4a + 4b = 4c
      This can be written as:
      6a - 2a + 6b - 2b = 6c - 2c
      Reorganising:
      6a + 6b - 6c = 2a + 2b - 2c
      Constants before brackets:
      6 * (a+b-c) = 2 * (a+b-c)
      Remove the same term left/right:
      6 = 2
      But only because you divided both sides by zero.
    10. Re:Excell is buggy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 + 1 = 1 in (H, +). That + is different than the commutative monoid (N, +).

      How fitting that my captcha is axioms.

  27. Mod Parent "Dumbass" by sam_van · · Score: 1
    Seriously, AC, have you ever worked in an environment doing data analysis?

    Both in my corporate and graduate academic career, Excel is the most frequently used tool for data analysis. Not necessarily the most powerful, but likely the easiest and most flexible tool for most analysis applications.

    --
    Thinking of starting a business in Minnesota? Me too! mnsmall.biz
  28. FOSS books by Trogre · · Score: 1

    What I'd really like to see is books and courses on how to use OpenOffice, GIMP, LaTeX, Blender and other FOSS programs.

    Let people know they don't need to depend on proprietary software.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:FOSS books by Kuciwalker · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Let people know they don't need to depend on proprietary software.

      Except, well, they do. Excel is far more powerful than Calc, which matters if you're, say, an actuary.

      And what to GIMP, LaTeX, or Blender have to do with anything...?

    2. Re:FOSS books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry they don't Calc is 1000 times more powerful.

      It all in the python. At this time what is bad OpenOffice does not have a python editor. Lots of the missing functions from OpenOffice can be done from python using andon python libs.

      And then python can do things that you never dreamed that could be processed on a spread sheet.

  29. Re:Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by blenderking · · Score: 2, Informative

    Agreed - Pivot Tables are great - but don't forget the function: Getpivotdata. I've been entire applicatons that store data in pivot tables and then use GetPivotData to populate a template. GetPivotData, done right, can even take input from drop down boxes and such without any VBA. It's a handy way to create a nice user interface in Excel without a lot of work. Use the contact form on my website and I'll create and send a sample workbook.

    --
    blenderking.com over 50,000 blenders can't be wrong
  30. A new way to amuse myself... by gardyloo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ...is to replace every instance of "Excel" in your post with "women". Seriously.

  31. I gotta believe parent is a joke, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's called operator precedence. Look it up. Seriously.

  32. Please use the right tool for the job by vijayiyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As an engineer, I hate it when people use Excel for data analysis. It's a financial spreadsheet tool, and it's awful for anything else. Skip it, learn Matlab, and you'll never look back. Otherwise, you'll only cause others headaches when you hand them your "program" in Excel.
    The fact that Excel has a 65,535 row limit is an indicator that even Microsoft doesn't expect it to be used for real analysis.

    1. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by iamlucky13 · · Score: 1

      I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. For elementary data analysis, it's great. Got 1000 numbers and need the mean, standard deviation, and a histogram of the points? Piece of cake. Need to create simple, easy to style and control graphs? It does it fine. Want to create a table showing raw data, basic calculations performed on it, and final answers (whether for presentation or because it's helpful to see the data while you're working on it)? Excel makes it easy.

      Want to perform a level crossing analysis on 24 hours of pressure data read at 100 Hz or generate hydraulic system and pump curves based on inputed parameters? Definitely don't use Excel.

      It's not the ultimate tool, but it definitely does a lot more than add up dollar signs.

    2. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by debauched+sloth · · Score: 0

      Matlab, faugh. The right tool would be R http://www.r-project.org/

    3. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by the_brobdingnagian · · Score: 1

      I participated in a physics project in high school. The project was about comics rays and the detectors generated data files of aproximately 30,000 events per day per detector. The project now has 29 active detectors. The first day of measurements I can find in the database is march 26 2004. These are huge amounts of data (for high school students). Yet they advice high school students to do the data analysis in Microsoft Excel. Because I disliked Excel I wrote my own python script to do the data analysis. This generated a lot of positive reaction from the project organisers who apparently disliked excel too. I started do write a GUI around it. Now all high school students who participate can use and modify my script and it is a lot easier to use than Excel. The useful part of the script took about 30 minutes to write, only the GUI costs a lot more time (I'll take a good command line script ;-) ). So I would advice anyone not to follow the obvious path (Excel), but follow a more fun, easy or even more free path. It is worth it.

    4. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you do a lot of data analysis, you should look to the R project or to a clone of Matlab like Octave (both under GPL).

    5. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by anothy · · Score: 1

      i think you're working under the (very) false assumption that the kind of "data analysis" you care about is the only kind there is. i've done lots of data analysis using simple spreadsheets (seldom Excel specifically, generally open source alternatives). it's a great tool for that job. but the kind of data analysis i care about rarely exceeds one data point a day, averages lower than that, and we're rarely looking at more than a few years. for doing data analysis against that, it's great.

      besides, Matlab prices itself right out of the water for any data analysis project i've ever had to work on.

      none of which is intended to dispute the fact that Excel is frequently misused. i've seen whole businesses run by chains of inter-linked excel workbooks, any one of which would make a grown man cry.

      --

      i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
    6. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by WhyCause · · Score: 1

      As an engineer, I love being able to see my data, and the changes that are made to them when I apply some transformation to them.

      I often perform the initial analysis in Excel (so that I can see what is actually happening) before I write code to do the same thing, albeit faster and to a great many more data-sets. It saves a lot of head-scratching time when the output from my shiny new program is totally wonky.

    7. Re:Please use the right tool for the job by mammmon · · Score: 1

      Matlab is a fine tool, but it is very difficult to use. I use a product called Spotfire for similar problems:

      http://www.spotfire.com/

      Spotfire also integrates with Matlab, so you can get access to your code, but get Spotfire's usablity.

      Disclaimer I work for Spotfire, but this is my own opinion.

  33. The shortest book? by Skiron · · Score: 0, Troll

    "Beginning Excel". Instead use Open Office, Koffice or Gnumeric.

    The End.

  34. Oh I wish I had mod points by winkydink · · Score: 1

    +1 pointing out hyperbole

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

  35. Its called order of operations... by taboguilla · · Score: 1

    2+2*2 is indeed 6...believe it or not. And while yes, every "dipshit" does "know" that 2+2*2=8, I would venture to guess that a small percentage of the population (those with at least a 5th grade understanding of arithmetics) would recognise that Excel is simply implementing standard order of operations. It's complicated, but it breaks down like this:

    2+2*2 = 2+4 (perform multiplication first)
    2+4 = 6 (perform addition last)

    I personally don't use MS Office or Windows, I try not to give them my business willingly...however, in the spirit of fairness, I just checked my OpenOffice Calc and yes, it agrees "=2+2*2" is equal to 6. Oh geesh, I guess someone should file a bug report.
    (I hope this isn't taken as a flame, I'm just poking a little fun.) :-D

  36. Re:WTF? [OT] by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

    The nerves are pretty sensitive right now, there is a huge movement to make sure discussions are on-topic etc -- which I agree, need consideration so that /. doesn't just become a tech-centered fark.

    But any post that looks like it's impugning /. without valid, on-topic reasons is going to get modded down -- regardless of intent.

    As one sig I recall said, "One man's (+5, Funny) is another man's (-1, Troll)."

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  37. Re:WTF? [OT] by jawtheshark · · Score: 1
    Well, I didn't think my comment was offtopic or trollish... It was supposed to be funny, making fun of the slashdot slogan. Oh, well.... Complaining won't get me anywhere.

    One man's (+5, Funny) is another man's (-1, Troll)

    So true... I have seen this indeed in a sig a long time ago. Dunno if the guy is still around. Well, at least you won't take it personal now, and you know that I hold accountants in high esteem.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  38. Doesn't make it a good tool for data analysis by aurelian · · Score: 1
    People use excel because it's the only thing they know, and it's supplied by default on corporate/institutional desktops. Engineers in particular use it a lot. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be using something more appropriate. I've even seen them used for numerical integration!

    Just because you can solve your problem in a spreadsheet doesn't mean you should. At best they are a convenient way of doing simple non-recursive calculations on a dataset. At worst they are a really non-portable way of making your algorithm incomprehensible to anyone else.

    1. Re:Doesn't make it a good tool for data analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People use excel because it's the only thing they know, and it's supplied by default on corporate/institutional desktops.

      So it's available and familiar. If it also has the capabilities necessary to solve the problem, it sounds good to me. You have to remember that most people either won't or can't search for the ideal tool for each and every problem; sometimes you just have to use what you've got and move on.

      Engineers in particular use it a lot. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be using something more appropriate. I've even seen them used for numerical integration!

      It doesn't mean they should use something else either. The selection of an "appropriate" tool is often a personal matter. You also have to look at the cost-benefit analysis of finding and learning a new tool vs. using a familiar but less ideal tool. In a resource-limited environment, changing tools is often only justified if the existing tools are inadequate.

      Just because you can solve your problem in a spreadsheet doesn't mean you should.

      And just because a problem can be solved in a different way doesn't mean that everyone can use the alternate method. Just like with tool selection, people develop their skills using tools as needed over time, often building new skills when the existing set is insufficient. This process also happens to be easier when using common tools, as there will be a larger body of references available (including people to consult with).

      At best they are a convenient way of doing simple non-recursive calculations on a dataset.

      The importance of convenience can't be overstated.

      At worst they are a really non-portable way of making your algorithm incomprehensible to anyone else.

      You're thinking like a programmer. Some people just need something that can do some number crunching, with little or no modification needed once the algorithm is in place. If the goal is to provide a simple method to automate a tedious and error-prone repetetive task, Excel can be a good choice. As for portability, again, you're thinking like a programmer. A spreadsheet gives you the UI, data storage, and processing in one file that can easily be moved between computers. This is portability to many people. And of course the details of the algorithms should be provided in documentation anyway, right?

    2. Re:Doesn't make it a good tool for data analysis by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      You also have to look at the cost-benefit analysis of finding and learning a new tool vs. using a familiar but less ideal tool.

      How can you really do that if you never bother to find a new tool in the first place? I really wish people would actually do some cost-benefit analysis. For instance: Cost of migrating to OOo, company-wide, plus re-education, benefit of not paying for Office upgrades, having files last forever, and having a system that is, once you get past the re-education wrinkles, actually more powerful and intuitive.

      In a resource-limited environment, changing tools is often only justified if the existing tools are inadequate.

      Wrong definition of "inadequate". Excel files in particular break across versions of Excel, and break if someone ever needs to change the algorithm. The more complex the problem, the more spectacular the breakage.

      Inadequate? Yes, but no one seems to realize, because this doesn't happen for long enough for you to accept Excel as the right tool for the job, and when it does start to break, you hire an expert to fix it.

      I'll admit that some problems can easily be solved by a spreadsheet, but even then, I'd go for OOo Calc, because that has real portability. Save it in Oasis format and you're guarenteed it won't be broken by upgrades.

      Myself, 99% of the time, when people give me a problem that could be solved in Excel, I do it in an interactive scripting prompt. Takes less time for more flexibility.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  39. Buy it here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Save yourself some money by buying the book here: Beginning Excel What-if Data Analysis Tools. And if you use the "secret" A9.com discount, you can save an extra 1.57%!

  40. ever heard of scripting languages? by aurelian · · Score: 1

    Forget Excel, and definitely forget C++; check out Octave, SciPy, or Perl if you want tools for data analysis. Matlab if you have some funds.

    1. Re:ever heard of scripting languages? by everphilski · · Score: 1

      C++ does the work (I'm a simulation programmer), Excel makes the money (pretty charts convince them to keep paying me).

  41. Excel by rwinston · · Score: 1

    Excel is indeed an awesome product. I never really appreciated it (or knew much about it, frankly) until I started studying finance. Now its pretty indispensable. Speaking of goalseek, I was looking at a GNU-licensed product called Maxima, which performs a similar function. Anyone have any experience with that?

    --
    "If we cannot be free, then at least we can be cheap" -- Frank Zappa
  42. Mod this back up by I+Like+Pudding · · Score: 1, Informative

    To the -1 Troll mod: It's a joke, retard

  43. What-if Users by Main+Gauche · · Score: 2, Informative

    "What if Excel didn't implement its own window manager and actually allowed one to view two windows side by side in the fashion one has already learned?"

    What if Users could find the "Window|Compare Side by Side" command?

    "What if Excel allowed one to save to a folder with a "[" in the name, which Windows happily allows one to create?"

    You know that square brackets have a special use in Excel, right?

    "What if Excel had a dynamic transpose function?"

    There is Edit|Paste Special|Transpose. I can only guess you were looking for more.

    "What if Excel had used MEAN() instead of AVERAGE()?"

    Then there'd be no need for overly picky users to write their own MEAN() function in order to save three keystrokes; what fun would that be? (You know you can write your own functions, right?)

    1. Re:What-if Users by fossa · · Score: 1

      I seem to have failed to fully convey my points. Being the patient type, I'll explain further.

      "What if Excel didn't implement its own window manager and actually allowed one to view two windows side by side in the fashion one has already learned?"

      What if Users could find the "Window|Compare Side by Side" command?

      Multiple Excel documents each have an entry in the Windows task bar much like every other window. Yet they do not behave like other windows. They are all trapped within the same Excel window. The "X" in the Excel window (not the smaller document specific "x") closes the Excel window which also closes all Excel documents within that windows (yes, a close to worthless confirmation dialog pops up). In my opinion this is very confusing. Notably, another Office component, Word, behaves in the "normal" way. Perhaps you don't feel this is an issue, but to it is non-standard. And because it's non-standard for no apparent reason (is it cruft from a time before window managers? I don't know, and it doesn't excuse the behavior) it is wrong (in my opinion of course).

      "What if Excel allowed one to save to a folder with a "[" in the name, which Windows happily allows one to create?"

      You know that square brackets have a special use in Excel, right?

      Brackets have special meaning in the filename? That's news to me; please explain. And it's not even the filename. The folder. The folder in which the Excel file is saved. If one tries to save an Excel file (using Excel 2003 SP1 on WinXP Pro 2002 SP2) in a folder containing brackets, it fails and goes to the trouble of popping up a handy error message: "The file could not be accessed. Try one of the following: 1) ... 2) ... 3) Make sure the file name does not contain ... < > ? [ ] : | or * 4) ..." conveniently failing to point out which of the four options is the culprit and failing to point out that "file name" also means "folder name".

      "What if Excel had a dynamic transpose function?"

      There is Edit|Paste Special|Transpose. I can only guess you were looking for more.

      Yes, looking for more... like, maybe I add more data. It won't be duplicated in the transposed part. Ok, fine; Excel doesn't work that way. But even worse, the transposed part isn't linked to the original data. Not fine. I'm sure this one can be overcome with a bit of work, but why does the built-in transpose refuse to link data?

      "What if Excel had used MEAN() instead of AVERAGE()?"

      Then there'd be no need for overly picky users to write their own MEAN() function in order to save three keystrokes; what fun would that be? (You know you can write your own functions, right?)

      Ok, this one's very minor. But I was taught that "average" was a generic term, most often meaning "mean". The function definition of AVERAGE says "... arithmetic mean ...".

    2. Re:What-if Users by Main+Gauche · · Score: 1

      "I seem to have failed to fully convey my points. Being the patient type, I'll explain further. ...
      Multiple Excel documents each have an entry in the Windows task bar much like every other window. Yet they do not behave like other windows."


      I see that, and agree it's annoying. But if you read (your) post, you'll see that the side-by-side command gives what you asked for.

      "Brackets have special meaning in the filename? That's news to me; please explain."

      Being the patient type, I will. When Excel crashes, recovery files can be named such as filename[1].xls. My presumption was that MS wants to reserve the character for that purpose. In your defense, I see that MS has acknowledged this sort of thing as a bug, so I'll just concede.

      "Yes, looking for more [than Copy Special]... like, maybe I add more data. It won't be duplicated in the transposed part."

      You want Excel to spontaneously add data to distant parts of the spreadsheet? I certainly hope not.

      " ... But even worse, the transposed part isn't linked to the original data."

      Now I see what you want. Let's see, what function might TRANSPOSE a block of cells...? That's like asking the square root of a million - no one will ever know. :-)

  44. Yeah, by weierstrass · · Score: 1, Insightful

    a really funny joke, too.

    --
    my password really is 'stinkypants'
  45. Excel is the 2nd most misused software product by jim_mcneely · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a database developer, I have come across organizations countless times that are using excel as a database. They keep some list, with lots of visual formatting, which they send around in emails, which they then end up with dozens of different versions of. Someone gets the bright idea to put the file on a file server so lots of people can open it at once, but that doesn't seem to work right! THEN when it truly gets out of hand, I get a call. Can you help us? Can I just shoot myself, it will be quicker and less painful. I have seen people keeping inventory, invoices, correspondence logs, etc. in excel. Why not put it in a database? It obviously needs to be shared. Data should be kept as close as possible in ONE place, and when edited it should propagate immediately to all users. This is why databases are useful. After having been confronted with these kinds of messes over and over, I have developed a (perhaps unfounded) hatred of excel. It really does have its place, and in its place it is a wonderful tool. Very few people seem to understand what that place is. The power that it really possesses rarely seems to get used either.

    1. Re:Excel is the 2nd most misused software product by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you know that's nice and all. But the vast majority of businesses don't have a dedicated database developer to spec and write applications for things they want their $8.00/hr receptionist to be able to track.

      You can't beat the simplicity of clicking a cell and entering data or text. It's brainless and adequate for 90% of businesspeople.

      5 year plan: 60k/year for an apps programmer=300k+, or $200 dollars for Excel. You decide.

    2. Re:Excel is the 2nd most misused software product by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, they don't want to call the database developer because he seems like kind of a woundup, haughty prick?

      Seriously this seems like a great opportunity for you, and you're responding by getting frustrated that the company isn't full of database developers who understand data management theory. Typical IT Syndrome.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    3. Re:Excel is the 2nd most misused software product by jim_mcneely · · Score: 1

      That's a good point really, a big focus for our company going forward is gratitude and respect, which I think you are rightly pointing out my attitude about this may be lacking. However, what I'm saying I'm frustrated about is that they've been keeping that kind of data in excel for a long time, in no standard format. If they could have just kept a filemaker or access database, it shares better and enforces some degree of data integrity, if not normalization. I really do wish these desktop databases of any flavor would get a little more popular, in most cases that is what people would be better served by. Not that excel doesn't have its place, it does. But it is not a desktop database.

  46. Kirix Strata by GreggyBUIUC · · Score: 1

    If you're trying to work with datasets larger than 65k lines you may want to check out Kirix Strata.

    -Handles 60 Billion records
    -Spreadsheet-like viewing of data from relational databases (drag in fields from related tables)
    -Really, really fast
    -Runs on Linux

    Currently there's a 30-day evaluation version

  47. Re:Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by et764 · · Score: 2, Funny
    poor man's database
    I'm not sure any part of Microsoft Office can be called poor man's anything.
  48. In what academic area? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    Graduate academic career in what area?

  49. 7... out of 100? by DavidD_CA · · Score: 1

    This review is pretty negative towards the book. Every paragraph mentions something the reviewer didn't like, even the price seemed steep.

    But it gets a 7? On what scale is this? 7/100?

    --
    -David
  50. Re:Pivot Tables: Separating the men from the boys by McLoud · · Score: 1

    Agreed. Now, how many opensource spreadsheets apps out there support this? I know that openoffice supports it, but sucks badly when there is a huge ammount (eg: from a database query) of data to handle while excel makes it instantaneous. Last time I checked, KSpread didn't have it, neither GNumeric.

    --
    sign(c14n(envelop(this)), x509)
  51. Don't be a fool or a snob, by SlimSpida · · Score: 1

    use the right tool for the job.

    I recently was tasked with building a tracking document for work. I need to be able to track progress on thousands of files, and be able to view large portions of them. There are many cross-linked files, and many different categories.

    I know full well it is a database problem. In fact, I got Office 2K3 Pro installed so I could evaluate Access for just this task.

    After playing around with it I decided against it and used Excel (a sheet checked into source control). My reasons are as follows:

    1: Not everyone in the office knows how to use Access, or even has it installed.
    2: Everyone and their dog has Excel and is familiar with it.
    3: My data set at its extremes will definitely fit in Excel 2k3's restrictions.
    4: The List function and Pivot-tables allow me to answer every question I need to.

    In the end it boiled down to time. Access might have been more robust, but this document needs to be created two weeks ago and run for 6 months before we retire it.

    In my case using it checked into source control eliminates the problem of creating a shared document. I don't need (or want) multiple people editing it. In this case, Excel is the right tool, and I am happy to use it improperly.

  52. Whatever happened to 1997? by heroine · · Score: 1

    There was a time when we thought no-one would ever use Excel again, let alone write a book about it. Internet Explorer ran on SunOS, Star Office just came out, students were writing lots of free spreadsheet programs with perfect build systems and half finished usability.

    Some C net writers said with the number of half finished free programs coming out, there would surely be a replacement for Excel one day.

    Here we are 8 years later, Excel is king, and the free stuff has evolved into spreadsheets with perfect, finished build systems but still half finished usability.

    1. Re:Whatever happened to 1997? by bit01 · · Score: 1

      still half finished usability.

      You're mistaken. OOo Calc has a user interface and functionality similar to M$Excel, including full online help. M$Excel is currently king because of inertia, the economic network effect and marketing, not because it's vastly superior.

      ---

      Are you thinking long term? Just because a TCO may be good in the short term doesn't mean it's good in the long term.