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How Do You Job-Hunt If You Work Overtime?
Lord_Dweomer asks: "As a recent college grad, I took a job to pay the bills, but soon realized that it would end up sucking the life out of me. I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job. Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
"All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health. Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I may not be able to interview during the week or during standard work hours? Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume? My reasons for leaving, aside from the overtime (I am non-exempt), would be that I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
I'd quit if I had a choice, but I really need the money, yet I'm unable to look for a new job because of lack of time. How am I supposed to job hunt under these circumstances?"
The same way you found the time to make this post on Slashdot?
As much as I hate dealing with this festering pool of opportunists, sometimes you just have to contain your revulsion and deal with a headhunter. With the promise of a fat fee, they can be quite motivated to place you and can often get you "in" to places that would just pass your resume by.
> Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I
> may not be able to interview during the week or during standard
> work hours?
No.
> Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black
> mark on my resume?
No.
Got any vacation days? Use them up to go job hunting. Failing that, quit this job now and get something convenient (like working in a friend's bar in the evenings) to pay the bills while you spend the mornings interviewing. Or sign up with a temp agency. I did that when I was between jobs once, got me by until I found something permanent, and it had the 'benefit' of not being obliged to work every day in perpetuity. It was a bit nerve-wracking though, my finances were living on the edge, so it depends on how much reserves you have in the bank.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
There are lots of positions that you could look for online at any time of the day or night. Why not just look for the job after hours and send off your resume by e-mail then? You're going to have to take a day off or something for the interview, but that's even if you're not working overtime.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
A lot of people take sick leave to go to job interviews. Maybe it's time for your kids to catch a nasty flu or for you to start come down with strange migraines that require you to leave work often and go to the doctor at least weekly.
I used to just be really brazen about it, showing up for work in a nice suit, disappearing for three hours, and taking phone calls from recruiters in front of my coworkers. It got one employer to give me two huge bonuses, a nice raise, and hire a junior SA to handle some of the work. There's this old proverb about squeaky wheels and grease...
You just graduated from college yet you sound as drained as someone nearing retirement. Snap out of it, get your resume out there, pound pavement: you don't work 24*7.
Or... are you in over your head? It's one thing to get your degree, another to apply the theory to practical use.
Whatever happens, do not quit your job yet. It's easier to get a job while you already have one. A potential employer may consider you a hothead if you tell them you quit your job with nothing else lined up.
Trolling is a art,
Quite often additional job responsibilities are given not because of evil intent of the management, but because employee is eager to take stuff on in hope of a raise or promotion. This is especially true of new employees just out of college. Make things mechanical. Plan how much time your current workload will take, and once there's an attempt to add something on ask what part of the stuff you currently do your manager wants to "load balance" to someone else. If he has no intent to do so, warn him that things will take longer and some things may not be done.
You will end up working a little overtime (just to recoup the time you spend browsing slashdot at work), but things will become controllable. Working more than 10 hours a day and more than 5 days a week is unsustainable. So it only makes sense to do so if you need or want to do it temporarily, to, say, meet a deadline or to get rich in a startup. Pre-deadline crunches shouldn't last more than two weeks, though. If it's more - your management is doing something wrong and you should simply refuse to come in on the weekend or stay late.
the amount of time needed to write, proofread, edit, proofread
You must be new here.
Listen, I've been through this... if you've been promoted, and are assuming more responsiblity, etc. NOW!!! Hear me loud and clear, NOW!! is the time to demand for a raise. Tech. work is surprisingly very close to prostitution industry. You're basically a good hoe right now. Recognize it, and firmly ask for a raise. Have a decent figure in mind. 10-20%, more? Whatever you want. Dude, if I've learned one thing, asking never hurts. You've only got money to gain. Rather than looking for another job right now, you probably have a better chance of getting money out of these people. I was able to demand a 50% rate increase, after I got promoted, and I knew I was the shit. Now what made it easy asking for the raise and demanding it? I was ready to walk away from the job, and I knew I could at least get equal or beter pay and better working hours. So recognize you can walk away from this and lose 2-4 weeks, and find something equal and better. To effectively job search from what I've learned, you need the time. This is a whole other subject... After you know you can walk away, you get guts. Free confidence, b/c you've got nothing to lose. And you tell the manager you've got the best relation with (he counts on you like crack): I love this company, the people, etc. I don't want to go, but given everything I've demonstrated (have a list ready), I deserve appropriate compensation. (seem pissed). State a figure (i'd go high, 25%+), and then just shut up and wait for him to respond. Worst case I gaurantee: you'll get a minimal raise. Best case: you find out how afraid they are of losing you, they count on you, you're part of momentum on the project, etc. you get what you ask for. Go for it.
Hi, story poster here.
Its funny that you said that...because while I've been thinking about other jobs, I have no idea what I want to do next. I have thoughts of law school, but I don't want to go through all of that if I end up disliking it as much. Although the rewards would be big...
Hell, part of me just wants to be a lazy ass and become some surf bum in Hawaii.
I guess that would be a good follow-up question...
Once you're in the real world, how do you get to test out jobs since you can't exactly intern somewhere at a certain point. Does anybody have any suggestions for a test or some guide I can read to perhaps gain some insight into what kind of jobs I might be interested in?
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Simple answer. They can't actually force you to work overtime. It's a myth that a lot of corporate types are all too happy to let continue... but legally, they can't force you to work overtime, and you can sue for wrongful dismissal if they fire you for not doing it. And they know it.
So just stop working overtime. Or cut back on it. It won't take you too long to update your resume, and then maybe an hour a day to check the job sources and send out 2 or 3 resumes a day. And when you get an interview, take a sick or vacation day.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
after reading it a second time i came to the conclusion that maybe he just doesn't really want a new job. he needs weekends for down time and cooling off... but if you really want the other job, you put in the effort.
he mentions how he's doing 2 different jobs without any sort of extra compensation but the overtime. maybe he should take it up with teh boss. maybe it would be cheaper for the boss to hire someone else at a lower pay rate than to be paying him all the overtime.
he says he's a recent grad... find a roommate, move into a cheaper apartment, don't go out drinking, don't spend money to have fun. if that's what your friends do, let them. if you can, move back in with your parents. i doubt you're tied down with family stuff being a recent grad. spread your chores out over the course of the evenings. laundry, dishes, cleaning, etc can all be done over time. hell, i haven't cleaned my apartment really well in months, but i pick up and vacuum every now and then. and i have lots of free time.
if you really want the job, you'll put in the extra effort and give up some of the quality of life crap and just deal with it until you find a new job. otherwise, you will have to learn to suck it up and deal with teh status quo. the words are harsh, but that's really what it comes down to.
please me, have no regrets.
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If you are the only one in your dept. working this hard, and you have an understanding boss, let him know, and maybe you can get some relief, like getting some of the work moved to others who aren't working as hard.
Also, I'm a little confused about your overtime situation. If you are paid for overtime, then you are non-exempt. If you do not get paid for overtime, you are exempt. (As in: Exempt from overtime laws.)
If everybody at your office is working this hard, then yeah, it's time to take some "flex" time during the day to do at least a phone interview. If they aren't paying you by the hour, then it is perfectly right for you to do so. (You aren't physically chained to your desk, are you?) If they are paying by the hour, just charge them for less OT.
Remember, you work to live, not the other way around.
SirWired
I call asshole who's never had it that rough. Some jobs require - absolutely require - that after a few months in you have some spare time on the weekend or else you simply crack up. The OP probably would have had an easier time doing it in the first month or two but, of course, he didn't know he should be looking for a job then.
I definitely sympathize with you since I've been in your shoes. Here's what I would have dome differently 10 years ago if I had the experience. Any/all of these should lead to more time to look for work and/or an escape from the hellish grind you find yourself in:
/stress leave. If you can't sleep because you're working so hard, or work is desrupting your otherwise normal life, seriously think about this option. Your medical plan covers this and if you don't have insurance, then you can approach this from a workplace health & safety perspective / unemployment insurance. A hunk of every one of your paychecks goes to fund these goverment programs, so USE THEM. There is nothing wrong with this, and it doesn't mean you're 'weak'.
If you are working so hard that you are stressed to the breaking point, see your physician or psychologist, with the possibility of receiving medical clearance to go on sick leave
Recognize that your employer needs you more than you need them. I say this because if you are filling two roles for the price of one, your company probably cannot do without you. While this is tougher for people to do when they have less experience (aren't wise to 'normal' employee / employer expectations), know that you can establish boundaries and expectations. Advise your manager that you will simply not be able to fulfil the duties of BOTH positions and they're going to have to pick the ONE that you will be responsible for. If they won't play ball, tell them you intend to resign. They will do anything to keep a person that does as much work as you, including cutting your hours substantially.
Realize that salary does not mean 'you will complete as much work as we tell you to, even if it means sleeping under your desk'. There are labor laws which govern this type of employee abuse. Spend a few hours calling local government agencies and find out what your rights are. Better yet, consult a labor lawyer. He may actually be able to extract money for all the extra hours you put in. Plus, the company basically can't fire you after this, because that getting fired for attempting to protect yourself from abusive employment practices is called 'wrongful dismissal', and is worth even more money to you in a lawsuit.
All in all, finally I can just tell you to look out for yourself first. Your company isn't looking out for you, so YOU HAVE TO DO IT. I would suspect that you have a strong work ethic, and want to do good for the company and it's clients, but at the end of the day, are you reaping the profits? NO. So always look out for #1.
Lord_Dweomer asks: "As a recent college grad, I took a job to pay the bills, but soon realized that it would end up sucking the life out of me. I work a lot of overtime in a high-stress, tight deadline job. Once you get into that kind of downward spiral, how do you find another job?"
Leverage your time and connections.
All of those co-worker friends you have, all of those business cards you've been stockpiling at all of those work meetings? They're not just interesting pieces of paper used to convey notes and/or passwords. :) If you're on good terms with those folk, maybe it's time to take 5-10 minutes out of your lunch break to ring them up?
Alot of people I know post their resumes up on resume sites like Craigslist or to Monster/Dice/hotjobs/etc. Takes 15-30 minutes to post, then check on it once every few days. Not alot of time.
Another option is to have automated searches run for you through one of the aforementioned job sites.
Yet another option would be to get in touch with people through a business networking service like jigsaw.
"All my free time, during the week, is completely non-existent, and the weekends are needed to take care of chores, and preserve my mental health.
Okay... what do you do at lunch? Are you taking a lunch? Taking a lunch helps preserve sanity. Not to mention keeping things all legal in the employment law books.
Are potential employers typically sensitive to the fact that I may not be able to interview during the week or during standard work hours?
Depends on the employer and on your value to them. Personally, when I had a job interview, I made sure that the time we agreed upon was convenient to them, myself, and my current employer. Ie, during lunch breaks, at the start or end of day, or I take a personal day off.
The fact of the matter is, you are looking for a new job. If the new job is worthwhile to you, then you will need to invest something into getting that job. That means taking a day off sometimes.
Also, will having left here after a year seem like a real black mark on my resume?
Nope. Especially with the recent job losses in the market, it will seem pretty typical. If you are in the tech field, staying for around 1 to 2 years is, I think, around average if you are fairly well established at the company you are working for. 2+ years is if you are working towards a goal within the company. Less than that, you are building up your resume with projects, completed goals, and exposure to new technologies.
The other issue is that if the workplace doesn't work out, you really aren't obligated to stay. What's the point unless you have no other choice? If you are interviewing, you are engaging other choices.
My reasons for leaving, aside from the overtime (I am non-exempt), would be that I've basically been promoted in work load and responsibilities -- and have even taken on another job role, IN ADDITION to my current one. All of this without a raise in pay, or new title.
You really need to look at what you want here. If you want to get compensated for over-time, then you are looking at switching to an hourly wage. In which case, joining a consultant group (Taos, Kforce, ManPower, etc) would be a good way to go. If you just want a higher salary, but don't want to go hourly, then interviewing at a medium to larger sized business is the way to go. Small/Medium businesses and dot coms tend to have a small core of people who work extremely hard and long hours. Many of them are salaried. They are willing to do this because they probably either have stock options or don't feel the effort to switch jobs is good for them.
Whatever the reason, you need to look at your priorities. Want time left over for yourself, your family, your life, etc? Then add it to your want/need list. Want more money, add it onto the list as well. Which one comes first? Decide that before going into the interview.
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Try harder.
Or failing that, just heave a rock out of the window. You'll hit three of them. No imagining required.
I wore a suit one day and left mid-day to 'get my car inspected', which was actually the truth. When I got back to the office I got a $7,000 raise from my boss. She was frantically making phone calls while I was out, trying to get immediate authorization for the money.
Playing double-or-nothing is a great way to get a raise or get canned, but in my experience, if you're on-the-ball you'll get the raise. I know my workplace would be in a world of pain if I left, just because I know a little about how everything works.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
If you're under that much stress and duress, and you're able to handle it, you may be able to handle looking for a job at the same time.
I've been in this sort of situation before. Frankly, I find that it's hard to go through a good job search if you have a full-time job at all. I find job searches to be worse than any full-time job I've ever had, and having to do it after a long day's work isn't fun. Doing it after working 18 hours straight is pretty demoralizing.
And on top of all the rest, potential employers want everyone to be so goddamn chipper. That's what gets me, is even if your working hard and still looking for a job, you're tired and a bit depressed, which is exactly the wrong state to be in if you want to get hired. They want you to have the most beautiful resume ever, a personally-crafted cover letter, and a big smile on your face when you show up for an interview. Lots of them want you to tell them how they have the best company ever and the job you're interviewing for is your dream job. All this after they went through all the trouble of writing a 2 sentence job post for Monster.com.
Honestly, my theory is that there's a serious problem with the way we find work, in that the skills to find the job, the skills to get the job, and the skills to do the job are often not the same. Sometimes, they're contradictory. And we don't have help, and we treat people like their lazy idiots if they have any trouble with the process.
I mean, yeah, you have to suck it up. If you want a job, you have to do it. But can't we have a little sympathy for someone who works long days, has other things going on in his life (don't we all?), and is frustrated by the job-search process? When he asks for help, can't we offer something more productive than name-calling?
My advice (and others have said similar things) is to put limits on the hours for the current job. When they dump more hours and responsibilities on you, say no. Leave on time. Take vacation/sick/personal time for interviews. Do what you need to do. It won't make your boss happy, but you don't need him to be super-impressed if you're not trying to move up in that company anyway. Wait until you get your new job, then work your ass off to impress the boss. Work your ass off when you work for a good company where hard work will pay off.
*yes, before I got my current job, I interrupted my job search for about a month because I was working 20 hour days sometimes and I didn't have the energy to look.
I don't think you guys are being fair to the OP. Being in a job you need but don't like can be very draining in time, physical energy, emotional energy, etc. While it may appear to the casual viewer that he has time to job hunt (time spent posting on slashdot, for example), the amount of energy required to post on slashdot can hardly be compared to the amount of energy needed to update a resume/cover letter, search for jobs, apply for jobs, arrange a schedule of interviews, etc: one act is a form of relaxation, the others are not.
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Works for me!
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You can't fight The Man, he's too strong. You'll have to stay put. However, there are some extremely effective strategies for showing everyone that The Man don't own you.
1) A Dilbert desk calendar
2) A Tatoo
sincerely,
The Man